Element Solutions Inc (ESI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ben Gliklich here with me, CEO of Element Solutions. Ben, great to have you. We've had you here before, but maybe just for people in the room that aren't as familiar with Element Solutions, can you kind of give us a rundown of the company and its product offering?

Sure. Absolutely. Good to be here. Thanks for having me, Rock. Good to be back. Element Solutions is a global specialty chemicals technology business. So we provide critical materials and solutions to enable high-value end markets, customers in the electronic supply chain and the industrial supply chain. About 70% of the business is electronics oriented. And we are selling a suite of technologies that really enable high performance in high-performance applications, from data centers through smartphones at the very leading-edge. Business has been around as Element Solutions for 7 years, I'm the founding CEO of the company, delivering on a strategy of what we call operational excellence and prudent capital allocation. Running the high-quality businesses. We have better more days than not. And harvesting their exceptionally strong cash flows to reinvest behind them in high-returning ventures, that has looked like buybacks at times, debt paydown at times and, more recently, some very interesting M&A. 2025 was a record year for the business. Our end markets inflected positively. We're capturing more than our fair share of that. As I mentioned, a couple of very exciting transactions to add capabilities to the business. And 2026 is off to a great start.

Great. Appreciate the background. Maybe just to jump straight into some of those transactions: EFC Gases and Micromax. So if you can kind of speak a bit about how these fit into the company's kind of longer-term strategy profile. And in what ways does ESI perhaps make these businesses better? Or do they primarily enhance ESI's broader offering?

Yes, absolutely. So the vision for our company is simply to be the best in our markets in 3 distinct areas: the value we provide to our customers, the opportunities we create for our people and the value we create for our shareholders. And that guides our capital allocation framework. The filter we run businesses through is: Does this business enhance our customer value proposition? Does this business enhance the quality of our company? Can this business be better inside than outside? Do we deeply understand it? Those qualitative criteria are then married with financial criteria, which is simply looking at the cash-on-cash return from the investment in year 1 relative to our free cash flow yield, and we want to get a premium on M&A. EFC and Micromax both meet all of those criteria, and more. They're outstanding opportunities to deploy capital and improve our business. EFC is a provider of high-purity gases and advanced materials to fast-growing industrial end markets, namely semiconductor fabrication, satellite systems, electrical infrastructure and transmission equipment. It's a business you would have thought, "Well, how are gases relevant to most of what we do which is aqueous or solid state?" But they really do what we do. They don't synthesize molecules. They formulate products -- they purify products. And they support customers with really great applications know-how. So they're buying technical-grade gases, they're purifying them, they're mixing them, they're packaging them in interesting ways. And in some cases, they're actually charging them for a customer -- not charging. Loading, this is charging in loading sense of the word. Into customer use cases. So very customer-intimate, customer-centric solutions oriented company just like Element. Gives us exposure to fast-growing, or enhances our exposure, to certain fast-growing end markets, with great, great capabilities. And inside of Element, we can leverage our depth of footprint into some of these supply chains to accelerate growth, to improve the customer network and drive that business faster. Micromax is a bit of a different story, where Micromax is a long-tenured company in the electronic supply chain, selling electronic inks and pastes. This was a business that was a part of DuPont, that became a part of Celanese, and we acquired it from Celanese thereon. The best technology for thick-film pastes and inks in the market, really well-established brands. Been a bit orphaned in its prior iterations. Celanese isn't in the electronics materials space, and that's a market we know really well. We sell materials that form circuit pathways for our customers and their use cases. And these thick-film inks and pastes are a part of that value chain or ecosystem. So it really does fill what was a gap in our portfolio with a very high-value set of technologies that we believe we can make better as a part of Element Solutions.

Great. So with those transactions kind of altering some of the end markets which you're kind of selling into here, I would just love kind of maybe a broad update on your -- what you view as your end market exposure, particularly in consumer electronics, is one that's been spoken about a bit more. So maybe as we hone into the Electronics segment, how have you seen kind of your growth in both the high-value niches, call it, AI data centers versus kind of more legacy consumer electronics?

Yes. So I'd say that EFC doesn't really change our end market exposures too much, nor does Micromax for that matter. They're both broadly defined in the electronics space. And they're not that significant from a revenue contribution perspective to move the needle materially. I think they deepen us and maybe broaden us a little bit. But overall -- and we owe our investors an Investor Day to sort of be a bit more precise on our end-market exposures, because the last time we did that was in 2022. The theme that runs through what's happened in all of our businesses, particularly on the Electronics side, is that the concentration in consumer electronics has declined as our participation in the growth from what I'd call B2B electronics markets, high-performance computing, data center applications, satellite applications, has accelerated. And so if you go back to 2022, we would have said about 25% of the business was in smartphones. That number has come down. And that's been replaced by what we call data storage and computing, which at the time was around 15%, and that's clearly gone up. So the trend of electronics intensity and higher-value, higher -- more technically challenging electronics content in these B2B applications is a real one, and it's accelerated.

I see. And just kind of as we understand your outlook in kind of both of those end markets within Electronics, I think last quarter you saw still some strength in the consumer electronics side of things, with assembly particularly seeing some benefits from that. About the same time, we do have this trend of memory prices potentially impacting consumer electronics. So how do you view that playing out in 2026?

Yes. So the business accelerated in Q4, and our circuitry business certainly outperformed our expectations. Some of that is driven by the better-than-expected smartphone unit environment, right? So smartphone units grew a bit more than I think was the baseline. And then data center investment accelerated as well, and we're an active participant and enabler of that market. And as we look to 2026, what we said is we think that 2026 is a continuation of what we saw in the back half of 2025. I think a tweak to that is that our expectation for the smartphone market is going to be a bit softer, down a little bit in 2026 year-over-year. But the PCB market, right, we're expecting to grow 6% on a volume basis. It was 9% in 2025. Our circuitry business should outgrow that because we're participating more in the faster-growing vectors of that market, and that side of the market has not slowed down at all. So that 6%, why would it be slower than 2025? I think that takes into consideration some of the concern around the memory price dynamic, where memory prices have increased and the expectation is that consumer electronics will get more expensive and that will have an impact on demand. Haven't seen that yet, but I think that there's a bit of consensus around that happening. But you can't look at that in isolation, right? Where are the chips going? Where are the memory chips going? They're going into high-performance computing applications and data centers. And how our value proposition to that supply chain is greater, our volume -- or our value per unit is greater. And so as we look out to 2026, we see real growth in our circuitry business driven by the data center market, offset slightly, but not entirely, only partially, by risk in consumer electronics.

Interesting. And maybe just kind of drilling down to the product level within Electronics. Kuprion is an area which we've grown more excited about, as I think you have as well. I think we saw, I guess, the manufacturing ramp-up, I believe, your first manufacturing site is set to be complete soon. Could you kind of just walk through the opportunity associated with this Kuprion business line? And I think previously you've noted kind of demand exceeding production capacity on the last call. I'm just wondering how that may influence your commercialization plan in terms of the timing and scale of a potential second site.

So Kuprion is a really compelling materials science, materials technology platform we acquired 2 years ago, 2.5 years ago. And it came to us as materials technology. It was a really interesting material that had a broad range of uses. And we bought the business for a modest upfront payment with the goal of commercializing it. And that's a long journey. When you're bringing new material science to market, you're standing up your own internal manufacturing process, you're helping customers build the capability to use it, and then, not just use it, but use it in high volume, that's a complex effort that's taken us several years. We crossed an important chasm in Q1 of this year where we made our first external product qualification milestone payment. So the structure of the acquisition was an upfront payment with a series of deferred payments tied to revenue and certain other milestones. And one of the most important milestones was: Has a customer qualified this product to use in its manufacturing? And we crossed that chasm in the first instance in Q1, and we expect to pay another milestone payment here at some point either in Q1 or Q2. So that's 2 commercialized product use cases for Kuprion. Those are the first 2. At the same time, we've been standing up our supply chain. And as you mentioned, we have a mid-scale site that is beginning to ramp production. And that production ramp will happen over the next couple of quarters. And the comment I made was not that demand exceeds production capacity, but the pipeline. The pipeline is the commercial opportunities that are being developed, which is different than sales, right? Sales are demand. Now at the moment, we have control of the number of potential customers, because we don't want demand to outstrip supply. But as we're ramping the site, we have excess product, we're going to start doing more sampling, and that will convert more of these qualifications. And so as you'd expect, we're developing plans for the second site, and expect that to come through, become a reality over the next couple of years. Our expectations for this business were always high, but our confidence interval around it was wider as we were building -- as we were proving it out, I would say, over the past couple of years. And as we sit here today, we've got line of sight to real revenue and an expectation of EBITDA contribution next year. And the confidence interval around that is closed, it's tighter. The potential for the business is very profound, but the timing of that remains subject to a bunch of variables. We're very excited about it and we're proving it out hereon now every day.

Yes. And just as you ramp up production capacity over the near and medium term, how do you think about, I guess, the need for, I guess, customer diversification, either in regards to end markets or just kind of being contracted with a specific customer?

I don't -- I'm not worried about customer concentration here. Basically all of the customers who we've been willing to sample have expressed interest in the product, and it's more than a handful at this point. And they are the leaders, I would say, from a technology perspective. And so if they're adopting the technology, I'm confident that the rest of the supply chain will be interested when we make it available to them.

Makes sense. And I think previously on the call, you had called out kind of the potential goal of reaching $100 million or hundreds of millions of sales for Kuprion kind of in the medium term. Just curious what the capital requirements may be to hit that goal.

Yes. So to be very clear, it's not a goal. The earn-out associated with the acquisition is capped at $100 million of revenue by 2030. So that has to be -- certainly, that's the target of the selling shareholders, some of whom are my colleagues today. And so we are racing to accomplish that, because it's a win for them and for us. It's a high-margin product, and if we can reach that level, it will be a really meaningful contributor to profits. The capital requirements are not insignificant. We are -- the first plant we built cost north of $20 million. The next plant, we're still sketching out, it will cost more because it will have greater capacity. But in the scheme of large chemical manufacturing plants, this is not a particularly expensive one. And so there will be a capital requirement associated with scaling the business, but it should fit within the framework of 2% to 2.5% of sales in CapEx on a recurring basis. We can support a couple of large projects. For us, this is a large project per year within that context.

Sure. Maybe just shifting over to Argomax. Can you kind of just explain that technology and the size of that offering in the medium to long term? I understand there's been a recent shift to kind of shift away from EVs, and potentially western EVs and, in the longer term, over to infrastructure and data center systems. Can you kind of speak to that and the trajectory for that as well?

So Argomax, taking a step back, Element is not a blockbuster product type company. Our model is to work closely with our customers to solve their problems. And our customers have a plethora of problems. And so we've got a lot of different SKUs. And part of the beauty of the business is managing that complexity, being able to come up with niche solutions that creates some level of moat around what we're doing. That having been said, we just talked about ActiveCopper or Kuprion and the potential associated with that, and Argomax is another one of these, I won't call it blockbuster, but product brands of scale in the portfolio. Argomax is a silver-based material that's used for high-thermal applications around semiconductors. So the first big use case we had was power electronics for electric vehicles. And this is for the power module and the power inverter, that inverts the energy from the battery to the motor. And using this material allows for less thermal loss, which is to say, less heat escapes the system, which is more energy that can go towards the motor. It gets better range. You can also take higher power densities, so it doesn't melt like alternative materials might, so you can use fewer of these power semis and get better throughput. So really great technology and product capability. It was early-adopted by a certain large EV manufacturer. And the second set of adopters were also very nimble. They were Chinese leading EV OEMs with high-performance offerings. And so we went from being customer concentrated there to being more and more diversified. Now we're starting to see some of the western OEMs adopt the technology as well. So the business has been growing nicely, despite the EV market not having had such a great trajectory in the past 12 months, a bit of a step back especially from one of our customers. So the next market where there's a high-thermal, high-power application is data centers. And we are starting to see adoption of this technology, or an ancillary product based on this technology, in that market. Today it's concentrated in electric vehicles, but there's a lot of room to run and interest in this from the data center market.

I guess how is the R&D or just the process of kind of spec-ing in with this new type of customer been for that product, the ancillary product?

It's been interesting because we thought of the product as really having a great value proposition to the electric vehicle market, and most of our energy and research and resources were dedicated to broadening our penetration of the EV market, and only recently have we pivoted towards other potential applications. And we're finding them, is what I would say. The work is more around applications know-how in certain incremental product development at the moment. And we have very interested counterparties that are engaging with us in our applications labs to experiment with the material here and now.

Understood. I think one of the other products brought up in the electronics sphere would be Shadow Plus. I think the latest was you guys were trying to kind of spec that in with certain OEMs. Just curious how this progress has been going for that direct metallization technology and what you see as potentially the near and medium-term revenue opportunities there.

So direct metallization is a circuit board metallization technology that, rather than using copper, uses carbon. And so this is a way of forming circuit pathways actually more environmentally friendly, less water intensive, less energy intensive than conventional copper. But you're in a supply chain that is change resistant, right? And so driving adoption of something, even if it's got a really strong value proposition, takes some time, and highly qualified. So we've been fighting an uphill battle, I would say, to get this new technology qualified. We've got receptive customers and supply chains, but it just takes some time to get that done. And our new product for this is a really nifty new capability that the supply chain is pretty excited about. But again, these things take a bit of time.

Fair enough. So I think you had previously mentioned the expectation of PCB is growing, I believe you said 6%, in 2026. Obviously, we all have our autos forecast as well. Just kind of based on both historical levels as well as some of these newer products, maybe Kuprion being one, how do you expect your premium to be over kind of these baseline growth of the end markets?

Yes. So if you go back to 2024, we started doing what we called our Electronics Roadshow, where we tried to reintroduce our Electronics portfolio. It's really changed a lot from the businesses we originally acquired in 2013 and 2014, 2015. And we looked at a few indicators as the underlying growth drivers, and then explained why we thought we could grow faster and how much we could grow faster. So for the assembly business, we said electronic systems value growth was the best driver, and that was somewhere around 4%. We said we could grow 1 point or 2 faster than that. And last year we grew 3 points faster. The circuit board business is driven by PCB square meters, which we thought would be a mid-single-digit grower, 5% to 7%. And we thought we could grow 2 or 3 points faster. Last year, PCB square meters grew 9% and our circuit board business grew in the low teens. So we're outpacing that as well by more than we thought we could. In the semi business, the front-end business, we said we'd be a high single-digit grower, that we could grow about 5 points faster than. And MSI last year was up 6% and our circuit board business was up -- or our semiconductor business was up 13%. And that also includes our semi assembly business, which we thought we were 5 to 10 points faster than. So 2025, growth year, where our growth exceeded even our outgrowth expectations, I would say. The industrial business, on the other side, was flattish on the top line, but grew earnings in the mid-single digits. And that's operational excellence. That's better sourcing, productivity in the plants, pricing discipline. And that flattish number is outgrowth relative to the market indicators as well as we see it. So as we roll to 2026, our expectation is the PCB market is up 6%. And that's not our internal expectation; that's the sort of most trusted data vendor on the space's expectation. And we think we'll grow faster than that again this year. MSI is supposed to be up roughly the same, and again, we think we can outgrow by 5-plus points. And then our assembly business, same sort of dynamic, where electronics systems value is growing because of data center applications, and we've got some really great capabilities supporting that. So that all translates to high single-digit overall organic growth for the business, which is what's contemplated in our guidance. And then we layer in the acquisitions we made.

Sure. And you touched on Specialties, just curious if you could speak a bit to the strength that we saw in Specialties, specifically in Q4. And just more broadly with the recent kind of shifts around the business, the divestiture of graphics and now bringing in EFC, on a go-forward basis, how should we think about the long-term growth and margin of this new Specialties business?

Specialties business is a collection of outstanding, outstanding businesses. It's 3 businesses. The biggest one is our industrial solutions business. They provide surface treatment technologies into industrial applications: automotive, heavy machinery and equipment, building products. And these are markets that have been really beat-up over the past several years. We saw some nice growth in Asia last year and a decline in the West. And we're not assuming things get better in 2026, but through the cycle, these are growth businesses. Maybe not like our Electronics businesses, but they should be growing in the low to mid-single digits. And we should outgrow that between share opportunities, pricing opportunities and strong execution. You've seen us deliver earnings growth in each of the past 3 years in this sector despite a pretty tough macro. And that's offsetting lower utilization in our sites because volumes have been down. So there's a lot to be excited about in the medium term on the Specialties side, before adding in EFC. So divesting the graphics business, which was a slower-growing, more capital-intensive business, lower margin, and replacing that with EFC, which is a much faster-growing, high-margin business with tremendous opportunities, getting some help at some point -- again, we're not counting on it in 2026 -- from the macros in the industrial surface treatment business. And then more of the same from our offshore business, which has been growing really nicely over the past several years at attractive incremental margins. It's a growth vector for the company.

Understood. Perhaps just across the whole enterprise, I know you probably won't get into specific end-market breakdowns, but just in regards to the auto exposure, which I think maybe in 2022 was around 25% in either segment, I'm just curious kind of how should we think about that within both regional as well as single OEM diversification and how that might compare on the EV side versus ICE vehicles.

Sure. So our industrial surface treatment business is about 50% automotive. Our Electronics business is less. It's been a tough auto environment. Our industrial surface treatment business is flattish last year from a revenue perspective. But our Electronics business in auto was growing. It was growing because our circuit board chemistries for final finish are performing very well in the Chinese EV supply chain. It's growing because our power electronics business, we talked about Argomax, was gaining share within newly-launched platforms in the EV space. And you're seeing a proliferation of content in even ICE vehicles of Electronics content, be it sensors, screens and compute. So we view the automotive market as a growth market for Element overall. It's shrinking as a percentage of the overall Electronics portfolio given the pace of growth in our data center oriented business. But it's still very good, high-margin growth business for us in Electronics. And on the industrial side, it's a coiled spring. So we've been able to eke out earnings growth, again through making the business better, productivity enhancements, offsetting a lack of absorption in the plants. And at some point, those volumes come back, and particularly in the West where our industrial business skews, and that will translate into pretty compelling incrementals.

Sure. And perhaps just looking at trends in autos, I think, obviously, previously, we've seen kind of a shift to some more EV sales in China, in the U.S., although decelerated somewhat at this moment. I'm curious maybe the next big shift within autos would just be the shift towards autonomous driving. Does this have the ability to be as big of a needle mover as kind of the prior shift to EVs for ESI specifically?

Yes. I think as a general rule of thumb, the more technically challenging and higher reliability the electronics have to be, the more value there is for us, because there's less competition and there's higher risk assigned by the supply chain. And so when you're talking about autonomous systems, the cost of failure is tremendous and the circuit density has to be really high, because there's a lot of computations that go into autonomy. And so that would be a higher-value opportunity than a conventional circuit board and an infotainment system in a car. And so this is the -- last year when we started talking about AI as a theme, maybe 2 years ago, it wasn't simply the software and the AI sort of user experience of that moment. It was this shift in what people were willing to delegate to machines, and what that meant in terms of the proliferation of high-density, high-technical challenge, high-reliability electronics to the edge of networks. So that's autonomous cars, that's robotics. Those are massive addressable market expansion opportunities for Element over the medium term.

Understood. Perhaps just shifting gears to more of ESI's cost structure. I think something which maybe there was a bit more of a spotlight on this past quarter were ESI's raw materials. I think typically, you have the metals and the nonmetals portion. Could you kind of speak through how these flow through ESI's P&L and walk through some of the hedging impacts that we saw in 4Q?

Yes. So we're an asset-light business. We very rarely are synthesizing molecules in asset-intensive manufacturing processes. Most of what we do is formulation. So we're buying compounds from molecule synthesizers and mixing them in interesting ways. And then developing applications know-how around that product or that set of products. And so our cost of goods are not fixed assets, primarily the raw materials. So 80% of our cost of goods is variable, it's raws, 20% is fixed. Most of that 80% today, given what's happened in metal prices, has -- is associated with metals. And most of the metals we're buying are passed through. So they have an impact on our margin percentage, but not on our margin dollars. The price of silver goes up, our sales go up commensurately, right, because it's captured in selling price. So we're able to offset inflation in many commodities with pass-through mechanisms, other commodities with surcharge mechanisms. And then the rest of our buy is niche raws, really specialty molecules. And when those costs go up, we negotiate price increases with our customers. So the margins are quite stable. They're not simply driven by volume. Occasionally, there's a bit of a lag where we're catching up with our customers when we've seen inflation. Our business is more OpEx-intensive than a conventional chemicals company because our workforce is primarily not on the factory floor running the equipment. They're out with customers, selling, providing technical services or innovating to solve their problems. And so OpEx is a bit higher than your benchmark chemicals business. But it's much more variable, because most of these people have high incentive compensation percentage of their earnings. And so in tough years, our OpEx flex is down. So if you look at the business' trajectory over the past several years and diversity of end markets, gross margins have been stable. They're back close to prior peak. And OpEx has flexed in line with demand, so the EBITDA margin is very stable. And the cash flows are even more stable because when the business is in an end market -- in a challenged end market environment, it releases a lot of working capital. So cash flow conversion is better in lower-demand environments. The hallmarks of the business are the stable margins and the strong cash flows.

On the capital allocation side of things, I mean, we've spoken to this a bit in regards to the 2 acquisitions. But just coming out of those acquisitions, leverage is in what I would say is a relatively still favorable position. How should we think about M&A priorities and cadence over the medium term, say, next 3 to 5 years or so?

We talked about M&A earlier and what our criteria are. Our leverage ceiling is 3.5x. And so we sit here today with 3 turns of leverage, and that gives us some capacity. We don't like to run the business bumping up against that leverage ceiling. It reduces our flexibility and optionality. Our filter, our hurdle for M&A is high, right? We've got outstanding businesses. And there's a scarcity of businesses of this quality in these end markets. So we have to be opportunistic positioning ourselves to act when these opportunities become available. We don't get to choose when these opportunities become available. So as we sit here today with 3 turns of leverage, the door isn't closed on incremental M&A. The bar is a little higher because of our bandwidth and, I would say, a little bit less capacity than we had a year ago at this time. But by the end of this year, leverage is trending down back towards 2.5x, and so we'll be positioned to continue. I wouldn't say the pipeline is particularly robust at the moment, but we're not also actively trying to catalyze transactions. And sometimes we're surprised by when great assets become available. And we believe we can be the home of choice for the types of businesses that fit our model.

Sure. And on the other side of things just following the divestiture of the graphics business, when you look at your remaining, your current businesses, are there any that you would view as either noncore or less core that you'd be willing to sell at the right price, of course?

So we've always characterized -- or we historically characterized the graphics business and the offshore business as less core, which is to say there's less overlap from a facility perspective, technology perspective and so forth. The graphics business, we sold, but we didn't actively sell it. We didn't seek a sell there. We were approached. We're not emotional about any of our businesses. And so if someone is excited about paying us more than what we believe to be fair value for one of our businesses, we'll entertain that. But we will not seek to sell any of our businesses. They're great businesses. They're contributing nicely. There are opportunities to make each of them bigger and better over time. And that's where we're spending our time.

Yes. Happy to open for questions from the audience. Maybe just one more on my side. Just given the recent spin of an electronics materials pure-play in the space, can you just provide an updated view of ESI's competitive peer set maybe across both the major end markets as well as the 2 segments you guys serve?

It's a good question. The great -- one of the differentiating things about Element's Electronics business is the complementarity of the businesses we're in. So there are bigger electronics materials players out there that have broader portfolios. But everything we do fits together nicely. We form the circuit pathways in electronics, whether that's in a printed circuit board, that's the assembly materials or in the package in semiconductor. And so we can sell and provide transparency to key OEMs and end markets on systems-level performance. If you use this suite of products, you get this systems-level performance, which is really different than selling product performance. And by virtue of this breadth, and this -- we're not competing with any one company in all of our markets. So in our circuit board business, we see Qnity, we see a business that was called Atotech that's part of MKS. In our semiconductor business, we see a completely different set of competitors. In our die attach business, it's a completely different set of competitors. In our assembly business, a different set of competitors. So there's no one in the market who can do all of the things that we can do and build the data and collateral to show systems performance the way that we can. And that's highly, highly differentiating and increasingly important as innovation in electronics is moving from scaling down transistor size on node size on semiconductors into packaging applications and into the back end, which is where we thrive.

Can definitely see the value of kind of being a system solutions provider. I'm just curious that as you kind of go down this path, what level of kind of additional synergies can you see just from kind of bundling in these offerings to the customers you're already with?

So bundling is a bad word because we're value-selling each component, and it's to a different customer specifically. What we're trying to do is show how the products work together to the OEM who will then specify these products to their suppliers. And then we're interacting with each of their suppliers who are our direct customers on a product-by-product basis. So the opportunity here is to capture value by providing value to the OEM on the systems level and driving preference through their supply chain for our offerings. And that translates into better pricing, more market share and more at-bats. Because the bigger our seat at the table is, the more exposure we have to emerging customer pain points, which then drives our innovation, right? So there's a flywheel here. By being a preferred supplier, you're not just capturing value today, but you're a partner discovering and co-developing solutions to future pain points, right, which drives growth for the business over time.

Understood. Appreciate that. With that, it looks like we're pretty low on time. So please join me in thanking Ben.