Emirates NBD Bank PJSC (EMIRATESNBD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Emirates NBD Results Call and Webcast for the third quarter of 2024. Today's call is being recorded. Please note that this call is open to analysts and investors only. Any media personnel to disconnect now. I will now pass the call over to our host, Mr. Shayne Nelson, Group CEO of Emirates NBD.

Thank you, Nadia, and welcome to our first quarter results call. I know quite a few of you I've got a 3:00 and 4:00 with some other banks, and I'm sure you've got a lot more questions for them than you have for us given our great results. So we followed up our last year's fantastic performance by delivering a record profit of AED 6.7 billion in the first 3 months of 2024. This is up 67% from last quarter and up 12% from the AED 6 billion profit for the first quarter of last year. There are many highlights in our outstanding first quarter. Profit surged to a record 6.7 billion in Q1, 67% higher than the previous quarter. Total income is up 3% Q-on-Q to AED 10.7 billion on excellent deposit mix, solid loan growth and strong fee and commission growth across all business segments. The group's balance sheet supported 900 billion as assets grew by 5% during the quarter. Retail lending had its strongest ever quarter growing by a further AED 9 billion. AUMs grew by an impressive 37% year-on-year, reflecting early success of our ongoing wealth management strategy. Corporate added 24 billion of gross lending as they mark deals across the region was successfully closed. Our deposit franchise grew 26 billion in Q1, with low-cost CASA growing a remarkable AUD 21 billion. Credit quality improved significantly with the NPL ratio lower at 4.4%. We had a 0.9 billion cost of risk credit on repayments and recoveries as clients benefit from a buoyant economy. We've had a presence in KSA for 20 years and the branch network doubled to 18 over the last year, driving 19% loan growth in the first quarter. Emirates Islamic also celebrates 20 years of providing innovative chiro-compliant banking to 650,000 customers. EI marked as occasion with a record quarterly profit of AED 811 million, and business momentum continues with lending growth of 6% in Q1. DenizBank delivered an impressive AED 0.5 billion in profit in Q1, providing fresh funding to the Turkish economy as the balance sheet grew to AED 150 billion. MCAP earned a top 3 league table position in international Sukuk origination as well as top 5 and regional bonds in Sukuk origination in the first quarter, raising capital for local and international customers. We allocated AED 500 million of competitive financing to SMEs to support the Dubai International growth initiative facilitating Dubai SME's global expansion. System analytics now rank us as the leading bank for ESG in the GCC, were rated fifth under 311 diversified banks globally. The Advanced analytics data mining project is well established with 24 live use cases, improving customer service and monetizing it Emirates NBD 20 million daily customer data points and retained earnings boosted capital ratios. In summary, the group continued its strong and consistent performance into 2024, delivering a record quarterly profit. The Rock solid balance sheet makes Emirates NBD a regional powerhouse providing the platform for future growth. I'll now hand you over to Patrick to go through the results in more detail. Patrick?

Thank you, Shayne, and good afternoon, everyone. Just starting with the performance summary on Page 2. You can see our business momentum from 2023 has continued into Q1 2024. Our ongoing investment in the UAE and region is delivering both at the top and bottom lines. Total income of AED 10.7 billion in Q1 is up 2% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter. Within that, net interest income increased 3% year-on-year on the back of a 15% increase in assets, which has more than offset margin contraction. Quarter-on-quarter, NII was 5% lower caused by a tightening of margins in DenizBank following the sharp rise in benchmark interest rates by the Central Bank to curb inflation. We have split that out in the appendix on Page 12 for reference. From a volumes perspective, retail lending grew strongly in Q1 and corporate delivered 3% of loan growth, more than offsetting further sovereign repayments. Nonfunded income was flat year-on-year, but a pleasing aspect is that the quality of NFI has improved with over half now coming from net fee and commission income compared to 1/3 contribution a year ago. This reflects a healthy growth in the client-based income. NFI grew 30% quarter-on-quarter with an increased contribution from fee and commission income, coupled with higher client income from foreign exchange and structuring. Costs have increased 16% year-on-year, supporting strong business volume growth, particularly in retail and the accelerated investment in digital and our international network and cost income ratio at 28.8% remains well within guidance. We have registered an impairment allowance credit this quarter of AED 0.9 billion on the back of cash repayments and recoveries. As a result of this continued healthy credit performance, we have lowered our full year cost of risk guidance to 20 to 30 basis points down from the initial guidance of 50 70 basis points. This gives us a very strong profit before tax and hyperinflation of AED 8.5 billion and a 6.7 million bottom line profit, which is up 67% on the previous quarter and 12% year-on-year. In the bottom summary table, you can see the balance sheet metrics are in great shape. With total assets, loans and deposits are growing substantially through the quarter on strong underlying business momentum. Capital and liquidity metrics remain robust and the NPL ratio improved to 4.4% on write-backs repayments, recoveries and write-offs. Turning to net interest margins on Slide 3. The bottom chart shows that margins tightened by 53 basis points year-on-year due to higher funding costs and competitive loan pricing at Emirates NBD and lower margins at DenizBank due to the sharply higher interest rates. NIMs are down 29 basis points in the first quarter. There is a small net impact on Emirates NBD's margins that the main overall margin tightening in the first quarter is from DenizBank. The squeeze on their margins due to the interest rate increases to combat inflation, which in turn feeds through to higher funding costs compared to the timing of asset repricing. We have revised our margin guidance to 3.6% to 3.8%. We signaled last quarter that our base case assumption was that the Turkish interest rates were expected to fall with inflation starting to fall around the middle of the year and interest rates potentially falling in the second half. Whilst the market still expects a scenario, the unexpected hike in Turkish interest rates to 50% in March suggest that inflation is more persistent than first thought, and therefore, interest rates may need to stay higher for somewhat longer. Our assumption is now that the DenizBank news will widen in the second half, but later than originally anticipated. And we now expect in t DenizBank NIMs to average 4% to 5% this year. While higher interest rates may hurt in these banks margins in the short term, the Turkish authorities have clearly signaled that bringing inflation down as a priority, and this is very much to the long-term benefit of both customers, consumers and DenizBank. So with a higher for longer interest rate outlook in Turkey, we have revised down our NIM guidance, and we'll come back at Q2 to keep you up to date to see how the main variables are panning out. Slide 4 shows that fee and commission income is up 48% year-on-year with a 17% quarter-on-quarter with a solid trend of quarterly growth across almost all of the group's customer-driven businesses. The increase in Q1 fee income after the bottom left chart is from substantially higher investment banking activity, increased loan volumes and higher retail card spend volumes at both EMBD and DenizBank with the added impact of the higher interchange rates in Turkey. Other operating income increased 42% quarter-on-quarter due to an increased volume in retail consumer spot FX and remittance and additional corporate hedging. Other operating income is lower year-on-year due to higher swap funding costs in Turkey. The underlying FX and derivative client flow income for Q4 of last year and Q1 remained quite strong at more than $1 billion in each quarter. One of the pleasing aspects is that over the last year, client flow business has become a bigger component of NFI. On Slide 5, we see that gross lending increased 2.3% during the first quarter with net loans up 3%. Retail had its strongest ever quarter, adding 9 billion in loans. Corporate had a strong quarter with 24 billion in gross lending. There was strong demand for trade and multinational financing throughout the region, which more than offset sovereign and other scheduled repayments. DenizBank also had strong growth, up 11% in local currency terms and up 1% in AED terms in the first quarter with regulations favoring a pivot towards sectors such as agriculture. On the liability side, total deposits increased 26 billion, up 4% in Q1. Within that, CASA is up an impressive 21 billion, thanks to customer campaign digital banking and promotions. CASA as a percentage of total deposits grew by 1% to 61% in Q1. And Slide 6, we see that the NPL ratio improved by 0.2% to 4.4%, reflecting the continued trend of strong recoveries that we're seeing throughout 2023 and the related write-offs. On the bottom right, you can see the Stage 2 loans have also improved by 0.3% to 5% during the quarter as a result of repayments and staging transfers. We had 0.9 billion cost of risk credit as a result of the strong level of write-backs, repayments and recoveries. And as mentioned earlier, we have lowered the cost of risk guidance to 20 to 30 basis points for as a result of the continued healthy credit performance and the 0.9 billion impairment credit in Q1. Paddy, you can now take us through the remaining slides.

Thanks, Patrick. On Slide 7, we see the cost-to-income ratio at 28.8% is comfortably within guidance as continued acceleration of investment, but growth is supported by existing income levels. Staff and IT costs increased as we drive business growth and invest in human capital for future growth in digital and international, including the branch expansion in KSA. Other costs reduced in the first quarter and lower seasonal costs and earlier one-off marketing costs. We expect this year's cost/income ratio to be within long-term guidance and closer to the 30% area. Slide 8 shows that the group maintains very strong liquidity with an AD ratio of 75% and an LCR of 186. We refinanced a 3-year syndicated loan, upsizing it to $2 billion shared across EMBD and EA. And this was refinanced by 20 basis points cheaper than previous loan. The bulk of the remaining maturities in 2024 are DenizBank 1-year syndicated loans, which typically roll over. So 2024 maturities are comfortably within the group's natural term issuance capacity. Slide 9 shows the common equity Tier 1 ratio strengthened in Q1 to 15.2% as retained earnings more than offset a 2% increase in RWAs. The increase in credit risk RWAs is from strong retail and corporate loan growth. The group continues to operate with very comfortable capital buffers. On Slide 10, we see that RBWM income improved 15% year-on-year, delivering its highest ever revenue and growing lending by a record AED 9 billion in the first 3 months of 2024. We enjoy a 1/3 market share of UAE credit card spend as card spend grew 16% year-on-year. All UAE customers have now been onboarded onto the new ENBD X and EI + apps. AUMs grew by an impressive 37% year-on-year, as Shayne mentioned, reflecting the early success of our ongoing wealth management strategy. And CIB profitability jumped 44% due to higher income and higher recoveries. AED 24billion in gross lending health offsets over and other scheduled repayments. Continued CASA growth was backed by the group's best-in-class digital escrow capabilities, including APIs and virtual accounts. Non funded income grew on higher capital market activity, increased FX and derivative cross-sell and higher fee income on increased lending. International revenues increased as we capitalize on network opportunities. Corporate delivered healthy impairment reversals due to the continued recoveries and improved credit quality. EI's results are reported in the respect of retail and corporate sectors. However, it's worth noting that EI also had a record profit of AED 111 million in Q1 as lending grew 6%. Global Markets & Treasury delivered another solid performance, generating AED 618 million of income in Q1. Net interest income is strong at AED 666 million and lower than Q1 of last year due to the year-on-year increase in the cost of wholesale funding. Trading income was lower due to the Egyptian currency devaluation when sales delivered strong income growth driven by new innovative structured solutions for clients. DenizBank delivered an impressive AED 0.5 billion of profit in the first quarter, providing fresh funding to the Turkish economy as our balance sheet grew to over AED 150 billion. We have a couple of extra slide in the appendix containing more granular detail on a dollar convenience translation. But with that, we'll open the call up for questions. Nadia, please go ahead.

Thank you, Paddy. [Operator Instructions] and the first question goes from Naresh Bilandani of JPMorgan.

Three questions, please. One is, and I'm sure you're anticipating this, just some more insight on the impairment reversals that you've enjoyed in the first quarter. Just keen to understand what parts of the loan book in the segments are driving these reversals. The segments do show that you're seeing this in both in the UAE corporate bank as well as in Turkey. I'm just keen to understand if there's any concentration of single names that could have led to the impairment reversals like we've seen in some of your peers? That's the first question. My second question is on the tax rate. The tax charge run rate, that seems to be line in with the previous quarters. And while my in expectation was that it should be higher due to the implementation of the 9% corporate tax rate in the UAE. Keen to understand some more insights there. And also specifically, how is the tax authority treating elements like reversals, impairment charges and write-offs from a tax perspective? Any light that you can throw on that, that would be super helpful. And my third and final question would be is on -- if you could please share thoughts on the impact to cost of risk and the net interest margin from the proposal of deferrals on the personal loans and auto loans that has been asked for by the UAE Central Bank. Any thoughts that you can share there? That would be very helpful.

Naresh, welcome to the call. Thanks for those questions. Maybe I'll just take those in order. The impairments, what's driving that particular sectors, et cetera. Actually, we have set out in the notes, '23 in the quarterly statements, you'll be able to see the movements in that. So we have benefited from a 0.7 billion from recoveries in Stage 3 loans. Obviously, I mean, you mentioned asking for names, but of course, we don't give specific names. And then also, we've had about a 1.2 billion coming back from Stage 2, which is simply from repayments. So even within ECL, you get releases. Sometimes they are larger facilities and therefore, because it's in stage 2, you'll get a larger release. The sector and the related collateral principally or the majority would be around the property sector. Obviously, the market and the collateral values are very strong and very salable. So again, it's just continuing a strong trend of recoveries that we saw through last year in those recoveries. Just on the tax and the effective tax rate. So this is the first quarter that we have implemented the new corporate tax regime in the UAE, the effective tax rate. And I think you'll be able to see this in the appendix is that the effective tax rate is indeed 9% for the OE, if not just a slight shade under that. And therefore, actually, what's driving the overall tax rate, which you might have expected to be somewhat higher, given the 30% tax rate in Turkey is because during that quarter, a number of items in the profit of DenizBank are not acceptable, and we're going to the specifics of each line item that you can get 2 or 3 specific permanent differences coming through. More often than not, the expected -- the effective tax rate in Turkey is in that 20% to 30% range in this quarter. It just happened to be lower, more around the 13% mark. So yes, the 9% tax rate has come in to the UAE and then the Turkish effective tax rate can go up and down quarter-to-quarter. So that's for the second one on tax. Number 3, just the cost of risk and NIM impact for the flood deferrals. You're right, the Central Bank has set out the expected 1 month deferral, no questions asked, if anything's longer than that, there would be evidence to support that, of course, will support our customers and clients who are being affected by the flood. From a credit risk point of view, I think there is more limited impact given the insurability of homes and vehicles. And therefore, if something has been destroyed, then the loan can be repaid by the insurance proceeds. And from a sort of technical forbearance point of view, we don't see any material impact on our financial results going into this quarter. So hopefully, that helps, Naresh.

Just one follow-up question. If you could please also clarify on how the tax authority treating elements like reversals, impairment charges and write-offs from a tax perspective?

In the UAE or in Turkey.

In the UAE, please.

Okay. Everything is accessible. And thus, the effective tax rate is -- or a shade under 9%. So if you have an ECL charge or a release, that's both deductible and accessible.

Okay. So there's no specific requirements from their side on changing the tax accessible base and treating sort of these items any differently from how you account for these? Is that just to put it simply a fair understanding.

Not at this stage, Naresh... No.

Which is typically the rest in Turkey. So in DL, for example, build in Turkey is not deducted.

The next question goes to Jon Peace of UBS.

Well done on the results. So 3 questions, please. First one, in your new NIM guidance, how do you see NIM developing ex DenizBank versus DenizBank? I think you said 4% to 5% for DenizBank this year, but just also interested in the UAE business. Secondly, on the fee income, 1.67 billion this quarter, very strong. Do you see there's an element of one-off and the IB fees there? I'm just trying to get a sense of the run rate going forward? And then finally, I realize talking about M&A is very difficult, but there were some more stories on Bloomberg this last week. Could you just sort of remind us of your thoughts in that space? And how important a progressive dividend is in the context of your M&A planning.

Yes, John, maybe I'll just take those first 2, and then hand over to Shayne for the third one. Just on the NIM guidance ex Deniz. On Page 3 of the deck, you can -- sorry, actually not Page 3, maybe it's the appendix Page 12 might be more useful, which highlights that the margins for EMBD, excluding DenizBank has been relatively stable. In fact, being quite stable since Q3, Q4 and then into Q1. So while we do see some competition around pricing on the asset side because of the strength of our CASA growth, that's largely offsetting that. And therefore, in this quarter, we only saw a 2 basis point impact with the indicators from the Fed market that there will perhaps be fewer rate cuts this year. That only -- I don't think that would lead to significant upside because what it's really done is peak what we had assumed to be end of June 25 basis points and move that into next year and you're still left with September and December rate rises that's in our sort of base case at this point. Obviously, it seems to be changing a lot through the quarter. But actually, the rate cuts for this year wouldn't really be as material as they would be following through into 2025. So we had strong CASA growth that may not be at this pace through the rest of the year, but it certainly helps from the overall margin perspective. So they should stay relatively stable. Just on fee income, yes, you can see then on Page for this of the deck, we had, I guess, Page 4. We've got a pretty consistent trend on seeing commission income upwards. That's not all from EMBD. Yes, EMBD underlying that was quite strong. It's perhaps not going to grow at that rate every quarter, but you can see the direction of travel. There's also good DenizBank client revenue growth within that. So we don't give specific guidance on nonfunded income per se, but we look to grow our client volumes, and that's what we've been investing in, particularly as we head into a rate-cutting environment next year. So we will be looking to grow that, but it just may not be exactly at that pace given the strength of all the businesses firing on all cylinders in this quarter. And maybe the third point, if I can pass that one to Shayne.

Jon, you're right, we can't really talk much about M&A, we're aware of our regulatory obligations on reporting on M&A. But it's fair to say that every investment bank in the world knows we've got big capital buffers and lots of liquidity. So I think we get -- our door is founded on constantly with transactions out of Eastern Europe, anything in the Middle East, India and even in Asia. So we get a lot of knocks on the door. But the truth is in 12 years, we've done 2 deals. We looked at a lot, whether we deliver on them is another matter. I can't say much more than that other than we have previously said to everyone on the call that geographies would be interested in Turkey, Egypt, Saudi, India, it's a consistent strategy we've had for a long time that we want to grow scale in our core markets where trading capital flows are strong within our core footprint in those markets. So our strategy is unchanged on that.

The next question goes to Rahul Bajaj of Citibank.

Paddy, Shayne, Patrick. Sorry, 2 quick questions from my side. So first one is on the sovereign portfolio. I see that your sovereign loan portfolio has declined from close to 111 billion in the end of third quarter to 75 billion at the end of the first quarter. So quite a significant drop in 2 straight quarters. Just wanted to understand, is this all usual sovereign repayments or is there any deliberate strategy from the top from the bank to maybe change the business mix or slightly make the mix more towards non solvent private sector. So any thoughts there would be useful. And the second one is on the Egyptian devaluation. So you have a sizable ag business as well. Just wanted to understand what impact you saw in 1Q on your group numbers based on the Egyptian devaluation Egyptian pound devaluation and how are the business prospects looking now after the devaluation and the 600 basis point interest rate increase there?

Okay, I’ll do the sovereign. I think on that, we've talked before on different calls, but I've never seen Dubai in particular, and it's in our notes. It's no secret to given related party transactions that Dubai has reduced its exposure to us substantially over the period. And that is purely because of the financial position to buy lines itself and it's super strong. You can -- those of you who live here, you've seen the growth in the market population businesses, et cetera. And that's purely a customer-driven strategy, not a strategy for us to be forced to reduce it or repositioning the book. If you look at it from a capital perspective, it's a pretty good return on capital given the mid sovereign that's being repaid. So we've had to backfill that. And our strategy as those repayments has been coming down is to grow to backfill it and also to grow for the future that we're seeing when interest rates start coming off. So one of our preferred strategies is to grow now to offset interest rate reductions in the future. On the Egyptian side, unfortunately, whilst we do like Egypt, it's not that material to us. And it is one country where it's a very small operation for us in overall terms. Last year, made 100 million on the -- on a 6.8 billion profit -- dollar profit. So it's unfortunately not that material. We would like to make it more material, by the way, don't get me wrong. And it still remains a focus for us, both organically and inorganically in Egypt. But the effect on us from RWE or even from a value perspective is miniscule. Yes.

And maybe just to add to that, Shayne, if I can. Just the revenue they recorded for the first quarter was actually up year-on-year was actually almost 30% up. The timing of the rate rises versus the FX depreciation meant that there was limited impact in the first quarter. And they are still profitable as well. And then from a group point of view, there's been no impact on the group CET1 ratio. And as Shayne said, that's because assets are between 1% and 2%. It's just not going to have that impact for the rest of the group.

Understood. Just one follow-up, if I may, please. On the earlier question of tax rate. So just to clarify, you mentioned that Turkey usually ranges effective stack rate between 20% and 30%. Is that correct? And then you get on top of that, that 9% odd in the UAE. Is my understanding correct?

So the effective tax rate in Turkey can be typically between 20% and 30%, yes. And then it's more like an for the UAE part, that is going to be around the 9%, give or take a bit here or there until any of the tax rules change and then become any permanent differences.

And are there any conversations to increase the tax rate in UAE from 9% to 15% or you think 9% is here to stay?

That's still in the consultation stage. So nothing is being promulgated or legislated to make it 15%. But our expectation is that, well, for our planning ahead, we're expecting 15% next year. If it's not 15%, then that's a bonus. But in our jurisdiction of the EUs already led just got a directive out for that. It means that we would be caught in the EU because of our Austrian business. So why would we want to pay that top-up of tax to the EU, it would be better to pay it in the UAE. So that's what I would expect for next year.

And I think also my comment would be that if you -- when eventually the OECD does drop uniformly, which I see that U.S. still has not voted through, what -- if the company is -- multinational companies sort of pay 15% somewhere then the UAE should collect its share. So you would expect it to be 15%. Otherwise, you're basically -- they're going to have to pay another jurisdiction from the profit they earned out of this economy. So I would expect the UAE to equalize with the OECD 15%. I think it just makes absolute sense for the country. Unfortunately, that means that we will also pay a bit more, but that's the cost of doing business and 15%, let's be honest, it's still a very low tax rate against anywhere in the world.

The next question goes to Shabbir Malik of EFG Hermes.

A couple of questions from my side. In terms of the corporate tax that you mentioned that it's going to -- potentially that's what you're planning for. It's going to be 15%. Do you think it's going to be applicable just to large multinational banks? Or is something that you expect to be like a sector-wide phenomenon like it would apply to the other sectors as well or maybe smaller banks that do not have multinational operations. Secondly, the -- I think one of the comments that was mentioned earlier about NIM that there is some competitive pressure on loan pricing. I just want to understand in which product or segment is it the strongest? Or is it just that there is abundant liquidity in the system. So competitive pressures are effectively on all segments. And your cost growth has been outpacing revenue growth. I think you've provided some color that there have been some investments. But I would like to know, is there anything that's discretionary which could potentially normalize? Or are there any one-offs in the first quarter that we need to be aware of? And one of the concerns that you've highlighted in the past is about CASA migration to time deposits, we haven't seen that, so far, is that something that you anticipate going into the rest of the year?

Yes. Thanks, Shabbir. Maybe I can just take those in reverse order. Just on the CAS to TD. We're always might that that's a possibility and a high interest rate environment. We're very pleased that we've been able to grow our cash 21 million out of the 25...

Frankly stunned...

Yes. But it was very deliberative. And so we really have -- that is from -- we do have significant campaigns in the first quarter. And so that pace of growth may not -- it might not. I'm not saying it will not continue at that growth pace. But remember also that the UAE is benefiting from population growth, we're also marketing, attracting new to bank -- so we're quite happy with that. When we look at our margins and the guidance, we're always factoring in an assumption about migration to time deposits. As rates go down, it's possible that clients and customers may look for yields, whether it's in the wealth management sector. So with our new wealth management app, we're already ready to capture the assets under management there as well. Just on the cost jaws, yes, it's negative jaws for this quarter, but we are consciously investing in our network and also within our ops capability to support the significant increase in transactions and client volumes. So it is investment to build volumes as we head into a lower rate environment next year and maintain revenue. So it's better to do that investment now then have to think about starting that as you go into a rate-cutting environment. There's no particular one-offs in the first quarter. So that includes -- I'd say, when it looks at the staff costs there, about 3/4 of the staff cost increases from head count investment within the UE and the region and the rest is more the annual inflationary or increments and performance-related payments. Just on the NIM, the competition. So obviously, on retail products, one typically has stronger gross yields. We're not seeing too much pressure on that. We didn't raise our rates significantly in retail as the rates were rising. So we don't feel that there's pressure to cut those on the flip side. There is competition in the corporate space, particularly if it's refinancing, but we are managing that, and we do price for risk, and we manage on that basis. So we're also mindful that when rates fall, if you have cut your gross margins too much that we'll have a bigger knock on down the road. And just your first point then around the corporate tax, 15%. Any thoughts on whether that -- what sectors that will apply to. I mean, the base principle there is under the OECD rule that's a specific threshold. Large companies with income greater than EUR 750 million that would apply that 15%. So we expect that. Our first expectation is that is how it would be applied in the UAE.

Just on NIM, I'd just add, there is abundant liquidity, as you're aware, within the UAE system, which is actually the reverse of Saudi, which is actually liquidity short. So we have been directing more liquidity into Saudi. But what I would always also say is that the Central Bank has been mopping up some of the spare liquidity. The cash reserve ratio, as you remember, dropped from 14% to 7% in COVID, and then it jumped back to 11, about 18 months later, and it's now been brought back to 14%. So some of that spare liquidity that Central Bank is reacting to and put back the cash reserve ratio to 14%.

One comment on the financials. I think you've moved to millions instead of thousands. So it's pretty useful and easy for us, at least for me, to spread it in Excel.

Thanks for that feedback, Shabbir. Okay, Nadia. We're aiming to wrap up the call. There's a couple of questions in the queue, but I think we may have one final question on the audio, and we're looking to get wrapped up by 10 to so that people can join in the next call. So Nadia, if you can go ahead with the audio, please.

Of course, the final audio question goes to be Aybek Islamov of HSBC.

Very good Q&A so far. Can I ask you about your Saudi loan growth? I think in the presentation, you talked about 19% growth rate in Saudi Arabia loans. What would take MS MBD to consistently grow loans in Saudi Arabia above 25%? Can you also comment what kind of borrowers do you have there in Saudi Arabia? I presume these are all dollar syndications? That's my first question. Secondly, when I look at your book value, the growth is pretty good. If I add back the dividends, your book value increased 8% quarter-on-quarter. Now it looks like you're going to be accumulating capital from here, right? And can you comment again about your dividends in case you're accumulating capital, would it be fair to see special payouts or dividend increases? And also, how do you see your book value sensitivity to rate cuts in the U.S. in particular?

Okay. I mean, dividends, I think we've discussed many times, that's a board call, not a management call. And if you look at it historically, the Board's probably paid out about 25% to 30% on average. And I think last year was a special to us up to about 36%. We did the 100 billion plus the 20 especially for the 6 yet. So you know from history, the Board is pretty conservative on the dividend payout ratio. On Saudi growth, going to be honest, we're -- even though we're happy with 18% growth, it's still -- if you look at where we sit against the -- even the smallest local bank there, we're a long way behind. So we have big ambitions for Saudi, and we have the liquidity, we have the capital. But we also have to be very mindful in Saudi that at the top end of town, the margins are quite slim. And our capacity to cross-sell in that space is not great at this stage. It will improve over time. But -- so we're also going to be very mindful of return on risk capital, especially in the top end of town as the big guys in Saudi are demanding very fine margins in a market that has quite tight liquidity. So we're very mindful of that. And our strategy is more, I suppose, large corporates down. But we've also -- we're aggressively growing our retail franchise from credit cards to housing loans to car loans within that market. So it's not just a 1 mega race there. We're not just going after corporates. We're also -- with our branch penetration now, really trying to grow our retail market share. And that's been quite successful for us at the moment. But we're still small. I mean the percentages, I would hope would always be big at the moment because actually, our balance sheet is still quite small there compared to the local banks. I think it's fair to say we are the largest foreign bank in Saudi, but that's not saying much. And the KSA team noticed, probably the CEO is on the call, but we have a much bigger ambition to grow in Saudi from where we currently are.

There's a couple of questions that have come in on the way, but I'll just clean those up. One question about recoveries in Q1 from the UAE and Turkey. Patrick alluded to that before because of the health of the property market. A lot of those recoveries are property related. But certainly, if you look at -- they're not just from the property construction sector, there are other recoveries from the sectors, and they are quite representative of our loan book. A question about the growth in the wealth management business -- it is a focus for us. You will have seen last year, we relaunched the app. And within that, we include our wealth management products, we've the ability to buy 11,000 equities there, fractional bonds, et cetera, et cetera. Population growth. All these factors are really helping drive the success in the wealth management franchise. And then there was a final question about acquisitions, potential acquisitions, Shayne already addressed that. So nothing further to add. That's all the questions answered on the web. Nadia, are there any further questions or audio questions?

We have no further audio questions.

Okay. Well, if there's no further questions, I'd like to thank you all for participating in today's call. And as you can see, we continued our strong and consistent performance into 2024, delivering a record quarterly profit. The group's rock solid balance sheet makes Emirates NBD a regional powerhouse providing the platform for future growth. I'll now hand you back to Nadia to provide details in case you have any further follow-up questions and the closing call. Thank you very much for joining us, and I wish you well for the next couple of calls. Most of you have to make.

Thank you for any further questions, please contact our Investor Relations department, whose contact details can be found on the Emirates NBD website and on the results press release. A replay of this call and webcast will also be available on the Emirates NBD website next week. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation.