EnerSys (ENS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi. Welcome to EnerSys Tech Talk focused on our Lithium Strategy and Energy Systems. My name is Lisa Hartman. I'm the Vice President of Investor Relations here at EnerSys. Joining me here today are Joern Tinnemeyer, EnerSys Senior Vice President and Chief Technology Officer; Drew Zogby, EnerSys President, Energy Systems Global; Grant Clark, EnerSys, Vice President of Marketing and Product Management for Energy Systems Global; Mark Matthews, EnerSys Senior Vice President of Specialty; Shawn O'Connell, President of Motive Power Global and Andrea Funk, EnerSys Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. We may be making forward looking statements on today's call that are subject to uncertainties and changes in circumstances. Our actual results may differ materially from these forward-looking statements for a number of reasons. Our forward-looking statements are made only as of today, for a list of forward-looking statements and factors which could affect our future results. Please refer to our recent 10-K filed with the SEC. Following our prepared remarks, we will be opening the session for questions from the audience. [Operator Instructions] The slides for this presentation are currently available in the events section of our IR website. As a reminder, this is a tech talk and we will not be taking financial questions or providing customer updates, updated views on the supply chain or current market condition as those topics are outside the scope of this call. Now I'll turn the call over to Joern.

Okay. Thank you, Lisa, and welcome, everyone, to this tech talk. Just like we've done in the last 2 tech talk sections, I'd like to calibrate everyone how we use our technology platforms. When you look at EnerSys from an end market side, you see a myriad of different types of application spaces, for instance, telecom, broadband, material handling, it looks really complicated. However, when you look at us from our technology side, you see 3 main pillars: power electronics, energy storage and a new pillar that we're just developing on the software side. With laser focus on these 3 systems, we're then able to permute this and able to serve them our lines of business, which then follows on to our product offerings. If we go to our next slide. The investments that we've made over the last few years and organizational changes are now starting to bear fruit. In the last tech talk, we've mentioned and we looked at the NexSys Thin Plate Pure Lead system and lithium-ion systems. We also talked about our wireless charging technologies that we're developing. In a future tech talk, we'll also be potentially addressing our fast charge and storage system. For this one, we'll be looking at our extended runtime system and also taking a bit of a technical deep dive on our 5G small cell fault managed system. We go to the next slide. So let's get right into the lithium discussion. When looking at all the different type of technology or application spaces that we have, any designer would say, hey, for certain applications, for [indiscernible] applications, you would use one chemistry, for another type of cycling application you may choose to use an energy chemistry and perhaps for another high discharge applications, say, for instance, data centers, you may want to power cell. And they're absolutely right. The problem is the complexity that this creates. First of all, you need a lot of engineers then to look at all of these different spaces in its single or by themselves. Second which creates then, A, a lot of more engineers that we would need to hire into the team in order to address then all of these markets that we serve. The other problem, of course, is the complexity in the supply chain that then starts to get generated because of all of these different cell manufacturers and every other component that needs to be added to it. Finally, we have to go through different suppliers and then start to ask with them for very small volumes in order to fit them into all of these different spaces. A very different strategy is to aggregate all of this. What if we went to one supplier, it took just one cell. And then from this, we then simplify our supply chain, and we bring that right back into the system side. And therefore, we have fewer engineers or use those same engineers rather than looking at all of these different spaces, allow them to hit these spaces and plus able to win new ones, so we gain new revenue. And that is the exact strategy that we're applying at EnerSys, one company and one cell. We've opted to use a nickel-based cell technology for most of our -- for all of our systems. And then what we do is we weld them together into a cell stack. That cell stack could be a 20-volt system, a 36-volt system or we could put them all into series and then create a very high-voltage energy module that has sensing electronics associated with it. One of the things that we're very good at, at EnerSys right now and what we pay a lot of attention to is safety. We were one of the first industrial companies to apply ISO 26262, which is a safety topology, typically, that was used in automotive applications that we've now transposed into the industrial space. So this looks at how the battery management system is designed, not only from a hardware side, but also on a software side to achieve high degrees of redundancy. We've also established a significant level of IP in fire propagation countermeasures. Everyone knows about the issues that many years ago with cell phones catching fire and it's very easy to look on YouTube videos today to look at these horrendous issues around lithium cell burning. And there's a lot of fear about this in the industry. And if these systems are not designed right, there is good reason to have that level of fear. If we start from the chemistry side, none of these chemistries are intrinsically self -- are intrinsically safe. Certain people may say that lithium iron phosphate is a very safe system. And although that it may have a higher ignition temperature for thermal runaway, all of these batteries be the LFP or lithium iron phosphate or the cells that we use nickel manganese cobalt oxide all use organic electrolytes. These all burn and they will all have similar types of problems if the system is designed in the wrong way. The other thing is, and what gives us -- and where we can build this very high volumetric energy density is by using these automotive qualified cell. However, in the automotive industry, the typical fire propagation requirement is 15 minutes, sufficient time that if one of these cells were to catch fire, it brings the vehicle to the side of the road. Here at EnerSys, we designed our battery packs to withstand over 24 hours with no flame outside of the system. This goes way beyond the automotive industry requirements. It allows us to develop that field of intellectual property that we've already proceeded to do so. One of the other aspects is if we look at this from an environmental perspective, if we look at the lead-based chemistries, the lead acid battery you use in your car today is a wonderfully recycled product. The lead was likely mined decades ago. And so this falls through with a lot of the products that we create here at EnerSys. The lithium system we wanted to follow in the same direction. The problem is, of course, and what everyone comments of that there is no lithium recycling and that's for a very simple reason. There is no volume available yet. All of the electric vehicles that we see on the road and there's still not that many. We're just starting on that penetration curve. We'll be on the road for another 10 to 15 years. We won't receive appreciable volume for recycling until about 2030, 2035. And EnerSys will be ready for its products at that point using our nickel-based chemistries, which have high intrinsic metal values, allowing that recycling in that circular economy to start. So we follow the same path that we have with our lead industry. We continue to the next slide. We see then that these modules, so here you see in the middle, our energy module, combining that with our control module in the code that -- and our code for our battery management developed here at EnerSys, we're able to combine this, say for instance, to create a motive power solution. In a lot of cases, again, because of our high energy density systems that we create, we can create much longer run time for our customers than, say, other competitive units. But the other thing is also in the telecom space. You can see that same module is placed -- is visible with a control system that's in front of us. What we're seeing in the telecom space is, again, with 5G, the addition of more higher electric loads due to the high-end electronics that's going into these systems, but we're still limited to the same amount of space. This is setting forth the requirement for high-energy battery systems in certain cases, which we can fulfill with our -- with the IP and the systems that we're developing. Finally, of course, the DC fast charger that we have in storage. This is one of the highest volumetric energy density systems right now that will come on to the market space. With these systems, obviously, we are pointing this towards grocery stores and nobody wants to see a number of sea containers in the middle of a parking lot in a grocery parking lot. And this gives us that direct advantage into that space. And finally, of course, in the renewable sector, for home energy storage, we can also place these high-energy density systems. If we go on to the next slide. The power architecture is set up the same way as we've set up our lithium architecture. Rather than here starting out with a single cell technology, we use common electronic topologies in order to fulfill the rest of our product offering. We combine this with what we call a common system on a module or common SoM block. It's not just a hardware component. That common SoM block has a microcontroller abstraction layer that's combined with a real-time operating system. That's also combined with an IoT driver set. This software stack creates a baseline of IoT and connected or enabled devices for a future product offering by just creating an application stack on top of that. We can create, for instance, a telecom controller or we can create a wireless charger or we can use this a number of these within our fast charge and storage application space. The other advantage that we have in this, of course, is the optimization that we can go through. For instance, because we design all of the hardware cells, right from the battery management systems to the rectifiers, to the shelving units, to the controllers, we're able to optimize that entire set. That's very different than say, a competitor that's just a macro level assembler of larger pieces. Giving our customers, in our case, a much higher capability in customization, but again, based on basic building blocks and customized buyer software. We go to the next slide. One of the interesting aspects in new products that we can develop using this custom or modular approach is looking at volt-managed technology for point-to-point powering. With 5G coming on the scene, we will need hundreds of thousands of small cell radios to fill ultra-wide bandwidth requirements. So one of these radios is seen here on this slide on the far right-hand side. In some cases, this radio will be powered directly off of the grid. In other cases, that won't be possible. So we have a number of operators that want to install a centralized power hub, and then as a spoke model, start to create a powering solution for these small cells. The problem is, how do you power them? We are a mile away from this hub, and these small cells are getting more and more power hungry. In fact, over these very small strands and that's the other requirement of this is to use relatively thin electrical cabling combined with optical cabling, we have to put through all of this power. You can't do that at very high current. The power levels here are up to 2 kilowatt. So this is the level of power that you range at home, for instance, requires. This is done over extraordinary thin cables. The only way that you can do this is by enhancing or increasing the voltage. So we increased the voltage from 48 volts, which is relatively safe for someone to touch, can be a little bit uncomfortable, up to 380 volts, which is lethal. And so we have designed and patented technology such that if there's any person or fault in the way, we can immediately shut down that system. What's more? Because of this radial architecture, we have power line communication. The power line communication is really important when you think about these small cell radios. They're just like your computer or your cellphone. Everyone has noticed or at times that your phone has stalled or your computer has frozen. Then what do you do? Have you turned on and off the power of the system? Well, we can actually send a signal, a digital signal directly to our down converted to cycle the power rather than having a whole area, a whole block, turn off, we can surgically place a power off command directly to a radio, again, something very unique to our small cell power offering. To continue with that application space, I'll turn this over to Drew.

Thanks, Joern, and next slide, please. Okay. Great. So from the Energy Systems structure of market and how we go about taking advantage of and bringing our solutions to market, we basically look, first of all, at the solutions that we develop and bring forward. We have a combination of power conversion systems, batteries and energy storage, enclosure systems, various levels of professional services and then different types of software controls and monitoring. Bringing all these together creates what we would call a critical powering system that would then enable all the different types of core technologies at a network operator, a data center or any other industrial environment to deploy. So we take this full range of solutions, all critical power and energy related, bring them together and integrate them into a kind of a purpose-built application-specific solution. And across the top of this chart, you can see the segments that we focus on at EnerSys Energy Systems, and we do this globally. Telecom, wireless, cable and broadband, industrial and utilities renewable energy and data center and UPS. Each one of these segments and within those segments, there's a lot of different use cases, et cetera. We package in somewhat of a bespoke way of solving the unique application challenge and workflow necessary to bring this critical power capability into those. So it's a combination of AC and DC power systems, all the different chemistries of battery because we provide a battery or energy storage solution based on the use case. And in most of our use cases, it's for backup over a finite or temporary period of time until grid recovers or other longer-term backup power sources like generators and others can be deployed. Enclosures and integrating systems, both for indoor and outdoor applications, we stack the power systems, along with the other active gear, the batteries, monitoring devices, HVAC devices, all those type things are brought together. From a services standpoint, we literally provide everything from the initial engineering proposals and designs to installation and commissioning to post-sale ongoing maintenance services that include scheduled maintenance, emergency maintenance and then other types of upgrades that can be done by our technicians. And then, of course, we mentioned the software elements that we have that are primarily different types of element management systems that keep track of assets, readiness of the system and then also can help direct where investments or recovery activities need to be made most efficiently. Next slide, please. Where we do these -- is it all different types of applications that would reflect an architecture like you're looking at here. So our power systems would be installed in concert and in parallel and matched with all the different types of active equipment that would be put into a particular network in this case. So in this case -- just in this example, you can see where we would have in all these different transition points, point of service delivery points or presence of critical core network or data center activities, indoor and outdoor, very high capacity or very small and distributed where we would play. So you can see that, say, in a wireless environment, we would provide a power cabinet system that would be at the base of macro cell site that would service a large area. And we would provide typically DC, some cases, AC, but almost all cases DC power systems with the appropriate battery backup and the modular construction so that as other capacity is added, the site can be upgraded. You look over to the lower left side of the chart, that would be more reflective of we call the HFC or hybrid fiber coax network. That would be typical of the cable TV network, where the bulk of the residential broadband services are delivered. That's an AC-powered system. And in that type of architecture, we have many, many small power systems that service to the neighborhood level. So we have 700,000 of these sites spread all across the Americas that would provide that structure of AC power, again, with a backup capability. Typically, that backup capability with our traditional batteries between 2 and 4 hours, maybe 8 hours at the most. Grant -- in the next slides, when we move to that, we'll talk about this extended run time program where in California through a mandate, we're supporting our network operator customers to provide 72 hours of backup. The rest of these sectors show the varying applications for fixed wireless access or traditional fiber rings and other types of broadband connectivity that's taking place that would require our services. You see the small cell note that would be using a system like the TouchSafe system that Joern just presented. And then within the data centers, we do very large, very highly reliable, highly engineered, long-life battery systems that provide backup to these mission-critical data centers across all different types of industrial sectors that can require no break in service. And so our batteries will make sure that the network and that data center operates until the longer-term backup, like I say, January would kick on. But this just gives you a flavor for the indoor and outdoor and large and small-scale distributed power and backup systems we deploy. This is very typical across the globe, and this is something that we develop in concert with many key accounts in these different segments around the world. A lot of our top customers would be names you'd be familiar with Comcast, Charter, AT&T, T-Mobile, Telstra, American Tower, a lot of different customers across the globe. So with that, I will now turn it over to Grant Clark to give a further deeper dive into some of our more interesting new systems that I just sort of alluded to. Grant, it's yours.

So to the next slide please. So to bring it all together, we wanted to take the opportunity to explain the engineering work and the technology and the platforms that Joern and the team have been developing. And then show how that is deployed and the advantages of working with an energy systems business to attack the problem. So earlier this year, we launched our extended runtime systems at the Cable-Tec Expo and the key 1 to focus on here is not lithium but the system. So in the slide here, if we go down the left-hand side, we can talk about the system and the applications that we're looking to approach was how do we address the 72-hour requirement from the California Public Utility and achieve coverage for, in this case, on average, up to 150 homes. So the good news is that we can do that with an enclosure and up to 2 enclosures at any location. And we can populate it with 6 strings of TPPL batteries, be it our 190A battery or our 210 ampere battery. Our XM3.1 power supply that we launched earlier or late last year, connected via software and monitoring the -- into the DOCSIS network for the cable operators and highly engineered enclosure to deal with the weight and the environmental needs of the location. So you can imagine at a location and I do have an image in the follow-on slide, we can see it's deployed in the bill. So 2 of these enclosures with all of this equipment can service neighborhoods of in the area on average up to 150 homes. So when the opportunity came for this project, with TPPL, we're able to address about 50% of the designated locations. Can we just go back to 1 slide because I want to talk about the lithium as well? So in -- when deployed, that would cover about 50% of the identified market opportunity. So the next question comes is, how do we provide 72 hours of backup to the locations that needed more energy to support more than 150 homes, must double the requirement to 300 homes, how do we do that? So the challenge went back to engineering, how do we get twice the amount of energy in exactly the same footprint. 2 enclosures exactly the same, XM3.1 exactly the same, but to engineering, double the amount of energy in that same footprint. And this challenge, as Joern alluded to, with 5G and other areas in that business is the challenge that many of us are facing on a daily basis. More energy, but you don't have any more space to work with. So as you can see from the image, not many things have changed. The enclosure is exactly the same. The XM3.1 power supply is exactly the same. Software monitoring to the system is exactly the same, all transported back through the doctors network. The one thing that's different in this situation is we've added lithium energy storage. And this photo here, this is the first cabinet, and it can hold 22 what I would call, battery power modules, battery control module, and that all connects back to the XM3.1. And as the sites grow larger, we would add a secondary cabinet, we would add up to another 28 battery power modules. And that in totality would be able to support the approaching of the 300 houses in the neighborhood. So I just wanted to recap same boxes, same footprint, twice the energy, using lithium. Now the challenge with that was time. And we often talk about how quickly can you get a new product launched. And in this situation, the challenge to Joern and the team was how do we get that much energy in the box, and we have a very, very short window due to the mandate to deliver that? And the answer was all the platform development that's engineering that Joern teams have put into enabled us to leverage those technology and platform building blocks and race to market in 18 to 20 months, the lithium solution that you see on the screen. Now if we move forward to the next slide. So what does this look like in the neighborhood? So in this case where we're talking about lead, the lithium deployments will start early next calendar year. But you can see on the left picture, completed installation, the middle and the right picture installations that are being done, still waiting for the landscaping. And what you're looking at is at the base of a pole, the 2 enclosures, maximum allowable footprint that we can work with, and in this case, the lead batteries that would be inside those closures. And if you look at the pole, and many of you would have these in your neighborhoods today, you can see the existing Alpha cable box, and in that box in this instance, would remain the XM3.1 power supply. And the reason we do that and leave that pole on -- the enclosure on the pole is speed of deployment. It will enable the operator to use existing infrastructure, no additional permitting for utility access. You can see the meter available on the pole and rapidly deploy these lead batteries. Just a point of note, this location and this application -- sorry, this location of deployment has already been turned up, and it's in Paradise, California. And Paradise, California was the neighborhoods that were totally destroyed during the fires in 2018. So this is in situation supplying power to deliver 72 hours of runtime to ensure we deliver the critical communication network access on the broadband and cable network. And with that, I'd like to turn it over to the operator for questions and answers.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Greg Wasikowski from Webber Research.

I had 2 points on wireless charging in material handling. I'll just ask them one at a time here. The first, Joern or anyone else, can you just walk through kind of high level the decision from some of your prospective customers to potentially switch over to or implement something like wireless charging for their material handling equipment. And what kind of investment is needed from their end? What kind of immediate benefits could they see? Or what kind of potential drawbacks could they be looking at that's maybe holding them from making a decision like that?

Yes. This is Shawn O'Connell, President of Motive Power. I'll take this one. If you look at the key drivers in our Motive Power business they are really the macros that are plaguing a lot of industry right now, and it's the lack of labor, the lack of access to labor and the lack of access to a stability in the labor force. And so what this is doing is it's causing a great degree of push to automation and material handling, not so much to eliminate operators but to automate where those operators are not available. So if you look at where we're seeing the greatest interest in wireless charging, if you're going to eliminate the operator, you're going to eliminate somebody doing a manual plug-in and unplugging of their electric device. And so wireless in this sense is just simply a no-brainer and the benefits are quite immediate and that they can eliminate the operator and have the device pull in, charge itself and carry on about the respective mission within the warehouse or in the distribution facility. There really is no material difference in the infrastructure requirements for a wireless charger versus a plug-in charger. I mean, ostensibly, you would have the same electrical input to the charger that you would have if you had a wired charger. The difference is how you made up with the device or the truck. There are a few novel approaches to handling this. We've solved it by having a secondary pad that we can put onto the device itself, and it's really a seamless operation. And then, of course, Joern has done a great job in the technology and making sure that it's safe. There won't be any charge pad if something gets between that secondary pad and the charging device. What I would say is where you're seeing the most of this adoption is in the areas that -- where the device itself is controlled through logic and not an operator. So we've decided to -- because the highest CAGR in our business or the highest growth in our business is in the automated section, we've decided to approach that market first and -- but we see a high degree of interest also where there are still operators on the trucks to also have a wireless solution so that they don't have maintenance of cables and whether -- if the operator comes in to park for a break they can have an automatic charging environment in case that operator were to forget. And remember, that labor is a difficult thing anyway. So they have a lot of transients in their workforce and training the operators and retraining them is quite an issue. So this is -- again, I can't state enough the demand and the interest in these platforms for us have been just quite high.

Yes. Got it. And then I know you guys have had a lot of parallels between some of the work that you've done with charging vehicles in the material handling sector, being able to carry that over into charging passenger vehicles with the new EV charging product. When we think about wireless charging, is that something that we can see as well, like a technology from the material handling sector taking lessons learned and kind of bringing it over into personal vehicles as well? Just trying to think about 2 of the main highlights that you just spoke about. One is removing labor in some cases that may not be as applicable, but as the other being that it kind of cooperates with automated services and thinking about like home energy management and things like that, even on the commercial side, that would make sense. So just curious what your thoughts are there? And if it's something that we could see carry over. If it's something that we could end up seeing in mainstream EV charging markets in the future?

Greg, yes, no, thanks for the question. It's a really great parallel. And that's kind of how we started even with the DC fast chargers. It's -- Shawn's team has done such a fantastic job. I think in the last 5 years, they sold about 1.2 million chargers. So it's massive, the amount of chargers that they've deployed. And so we're taking that and bringing that into the charging world. And I think you're absolutely right. There's a potential for future parallel for -- and particularly when we start to think about autonomous vehicles as one avenue of where this can happen, another space that is strangely enough, but where this is being looked at is for large fleet trucking applications due to the high power requirements. So 50 118 is actually including a very high-power wireless requirement that's going in as a potential. But I think you're right. For the future, this is something that we can absolutely integrate it to our system. And the great thing is it's already sitting into our product portfolio.

Our next question is from Noah Kaye from Oppenheimer & Co.

First, I think there was a data point that Grant mentioned and I didn't quite hear it. What was the actual time to market on the extended runtime lithium product for meeting that CPUC mandate? Did you say 18 months?

Noah, this is Lisa and Grant is on, he can chime in, but I believe he said at the beginning of next year.

And the duration from an engineering standpoint from commencement to launch, we'll be in the 18 to 20 months depending on compliance, but we're tracking right at 18 to 20 months.

That's very helpful. So what would we call out in terms of priorities for the future product of roadmap utilizing lithium. Obviously, this product was a big one. If we think about where you're focusing your resources from an engineering standpoint, what products would you call out?

Well, I mean this is something that we talk about a lot strategically within the company. And so one of the areas that we're focusing, obviously, our engineering strength in right now is the DC fast charge and storage product. And so this one is -- we've done our early [indiscernible] deployment. I think this product's gone, again, it's happening on an extraordinarily fast pace, considering the complexity of this machine. Each pad are still capable of charging at over 150 kilowatts. We're able to increase the storage up to 1.5 megawatt hours. So it's really amazing what the team has put together. I think directly, we all -- all of us from the business side, we sit together to see which next target could give us the mix accretive revenue and a good margin potential, where we have a very good niche and we're able to put our -- and deploy technologies, everything from -- everything that we've talked about, our patented -- volumetric high energy density systems, the software applications that we're developing. I just see a target-rich environment and really look forward to deploying those systems. And then with the added thing that just Grant just said, the speed that we're now capable of doing this at because of the fact that we're getting that maturity within our platforms.

That's very helpful. Joern, I guess, this is probably a question for you. It goes back to your comments around specking in basically 1 cell, right, for a common architecture. I think this was the first year that we really saw lithium-ion battery cells and battery packs start to have some upward price pressure, right, after a very long period of time. And the big part of that was just coming into some real pressure on the material side, including nickel, which is a key part of the cathode that you're using and then, of course, lithium. So can you talk to us about potential other chemistries that you are evaluating and possibly considering looking at? And then can you also expand on the number of suppliers that you've lined up for the cells that you have because certainly, we've seen tightness in the industry as well?

Yes. No, no, absolutely great question. I mean we're obviously always looking at the chemistries and particularly the fact that the amount of research that's going into these fills, I mean, there's billions of dollars that's flowing in, not only from the automotive companies, but also from the cell manufacturers. And there's always headlines around the solid state or the next great thing that's coming on the scene. In the end, what we want to be careful about is how that affects in terms of the pricing of the system, and it becomes for us, it's all a question of energy density and the type of material that's in there. So typically, as the energy density starts to increase, the price of the cells will start to go down. And so this is why we've also opted for a high nickel-based chemistry strategy. We're seeing that there is a significant level of work that's going into this. And then also the strides and the enhancements that are being made to energy density, we feel that that's a bet on our side of how the pricing will go, either it will become one of the lower-priced systems eventually depending upon what nickel does, and no one knows where that's going to go. But certainly, the amount of research that's going into that is elevating the energy density without adding any new materials to the systems that are different, say, or vastly different from today. So our path right now is to continue looking on high nickel-based technology systems. So -- and we are seeing this, pacing this at probably every 30 months or so to potentially make a change in our architecture. That said, there are a number of suppliers outside looking at this. We really look at the 5 top ones for us. What's really important is the quality of the cell. We want to make sure that we take cells that have been automotive qualified to the most part of the cell that we're using today, for instance, in the motor power systems have been qualified by an OEM out of Europe. Today, we're not seeing tightness thankfully in that space. And that may have been a different story, say, 6 months ago. So we're still working with a number of cell suppliers, developing that strategy, developing our relationships. And obviously, as the volumes start to increase, we gain more and more leverage, again, using that one company, one cell strategy.

We have no further questions at this time. I will now hand back to Lisa for closing remarks.

Thank you. And thank you, everyone, for joining us, and thank you to the team here in the room with me for hosting the third in our series of Tech Talks. If you have not been following, please go to our IR website where you will find our tech talks that started in June, the second one in September, and this is the third, and we look forward to you following us in our future tech talks at the beginning of the year. Happy holidays and happy New Year to everyone. Thank you.