Engineers India Limited ($ENGINERSIN)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Engineers India Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kishan Mundhra from DAM Capital Advisors Limited. Thank you, and over to you sir.

Thanks, Julius, and a very good afternoon to all of you. Thanks for joining in. So today, we have with us the entire management team of Engineers India to discuss the Q4 FY '26 results and then we will follow it up with the Q&A. From the management, we have with us Mr. Sanjay Jindal, who's the Director Finance; Mr. Suvendu Padhi, who is the Company Secretary; Mr. R.P. Batra, who is the Executive Director; Mr. Vivek Midha, the Chief General Manager, Marketing and Business Development; Mr. Amanpreet Chopra, who is the Senior General Manager; and Ms. Neha Narula, who is the senior manager. With that, I'll hand over the call to management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir. .

Thank you, Mr. Kishan. Good afternoon, everybody, and a warm welcome to all to investor meet. We have declared our annual results for the financial year '25, '26 yesterday. Company order book position has reached its all-time high and stands at INR 15,109 crore as on 31st March 2026, as compared to INR 11,717 crore as on 31st March 2025. Order inflow in EIL during our financial year '25, '26 stands at up INR 7,979 crores against the previous year figure of INR 8,214 crores. With respect to financial performance, for the year-ended 31st March 2026. On a stand-alone basis, the company has achieved a turnover of INR 3,849 crore, which is the highest in the history of EIL. The turnover has increased by around 27% in comparison to the turnover of INR 3,028 crores during the last financial year, '24, '25. The profit after tax increased by around 37% to INR 638 crores in comparison to the PAT of INR 465 crores in the last year. The profit of INR 638 crores for the current year is the highest ever in the history of EIL. Operating margin during the financial year '25, '26 increased to 16.22% as against 14.76% in the financial year '24, '25. EBITDA of the company as on 31st March '26, stood at INR 877 crores. EBIT with margin of 21.61% in comparison to INR 658.67 crores, EBITDA margin of 20.60% as on 31st March 2025. The turnover from Consultancy and Engineering segment during the financial year '25, '26 stood at INR 1,782 crores and from 20 segments stood at INR 2,067 crores in comparison to INR 1,678 crores and INR 1,349 crores respectively, during the last financial year '24, '25. The company has achieved the highest ever earnings per share of INR 11.36 against the last year figure of INR 8.28. During the financial year, '25, '26, the company paid an interim dividend of INR 2.5 per share amounting to INR 140 crores. Further, the company has proposed a final dividend of INR 2.5 per share in addition to the interim dividend, and against the face value of INR 5. It means we have -- in this year, we are giving 100% dividend to our shareholders. In the fourth quarter, the company achieved a turnover of INR 899 crores, with turnover from consultancy and engineering segment amounting to INR 489 crores and INR 410 crores in the turnkey segment. During the fourth quarter ended 31st March 2026, the company recorded a profit before tax of INR 195 crores and profit after tax of INR 152 crores. On a consolidated basis, the company earned a profit of INR 691.59 crores for the year ended 31st March 2026 in comparison INR 579.77 crores earned during the last financial year '24, '25. Therefore, there is an increase of around 19% in the consolidated profit on year-on-year basis. The profit of EIL subsidiary CL has increased to INR 24.71 crore in financial year '25, '26 as against INR 20.62 crores in financial year '24, '25, increase in margin around 20%. Now some of the highlights are highest order book position of INR 15,109 crores as on 31st March 2026, highest ever revenue from operation of INR 3,849 crores as on 31st March 2026, highest ever profit after tax of INR 638 crores. against with the PBT of INR 833 crores, highest ever EPS achieved of INR 11.36 against the face value of INR 5. Operating margin increased to 16.22% during the financial year, '25, '26 as against the 14.76% in financial year '24, '25. EBITDA as on 31st March 2026 stood at INR 877 crores in comparison to INR 658 crores as on 31st March 2025. Company paid an interim dividend of INR 2.5 per share, amounting to INR 2.5 per share during the financial year amounting to INR 140 crores. The Board has further proposed a final dividend of INR 2.5 per share with the face value of INR 5 share. Now it is over to you, Mr. Kishan. Am I audible?

Yes, sir. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

Congratulations on a very, very strong year for order inflow, especially for the consultancy. First question from my side, sir, last 2 years, of course, are extremely good for consultancy order inflow. But how do you think about the opportunity landscape for FY '27 for the order inflow for consultancy in domestic market and the international market?

Good afternoon. This is Vivek from Marketing and Business Development. This goes to the last 2 years, you have -- you have seen that we have sustained the business inflow at this almost on the same rate. We are endeavoring to maintain the same kind of business inflow. But you know that there is a challenging situations out there in the market. As of now, we have not seen much of the impact coming, but in a couple of months, it is -- we will be -- it will be evident that which way it is going. If everything goes resolved, gets resolved in the Middle East, then everything would be fine, and we'll be able to get control of it. But as of now, we have to be very cautious about what is happening out there. . In the Middle East part, wherein we are serving there, we have seen a little bit of slowdown. The focus is more on revamp of the facilities because of the damages what happened and the new projects are a little bit on the slower side. So exactly, it is just 2 months. Let's see, let's hope for us, everything goes fine, then we should be on the backdrop in time to but we have not seen in the domestic market anywhere, any projects being delayed or anything being done. Things are going like that. They are not canceled or not folded up, not -- no obvious information is available as of now. So we are hopeful that everything would be fine soon, and we're going with that perspective.

But do you think in your opinion that we can sustain these levels for the consultancy especially and especially domestic market.

The aim is to maintain -- sustain that kind of business. We have a few opportunities available in the future to come. But hope -- let's hope so everything gets resolved soon and then things go fine, and go on track then let's see.

Understood, sir. My second question is, sir, we are sitting on a very large order book, especially 100 billion order book in the cases. Is it fair to expect consultancy to grow at get 20%, 25% CAGR over the next 2 to 3 years?

Consultancy, let's say, it should be -- the conservative side should be 15% to 20%. We should expect that it should be the same rate. And let's hope for the best. We get more business. We are targeting more of the international in Africa part of it. So let's see. Be able to test something there.

Sir, my last question on the IOCL part. I think there was a large order where we -- I think we had booked part of the order, the part of order was supposed to book it later. Is it fair to expect that the balance of the order of maybe 8 billion or 10 billion will get booked in this fiscal?

Yes. It is expected by the end of this financial year, it should be able to be done because our first phase is about to be finished because which is the feasibility phase, and they would be going for the investment decision from the organization and then proceed with the second phase. So hopefully, it should be done by then by the last quarter, it should be done and should be awarded there.

The next question is from the line of Amit Anwani from PL Capital.

First question on the Middle East, as you said, some slowdown and the greenfield CapEx kind of seeing a challenge. Just wanted to understand what is the Middle East as a percentage of current order book? And is there kind of we wanted to grow a few markets, including probably Saudi we wanted to get more orders. So now what is your thought process for next 12, 18 months in terms of Middle East market? And what is the current order book from Middle East?

If we talk about the overseas business, around I think 30% has come from the Middle East side in the overseas -- I'm talking about the business secured not from the order book perspective. I'm talking from the order from the discrete around 30% has come from the Middle East. And I'm telling you that activities are going on, like we have their general services agreements with them and running agreements with them, lot of engineering assignments are there, smaller and bigger. The big ticket jobs are a bit on the slower side, which were to like start immediately somewhere in May -- April or May. The decision-making from the client side is delayed because naturally, the focus has shifted on the revamping of the damaged facility and avoiding of the new projects is a little bit slower on the side. But they have not publicly said anything about this that they are holding it off. They would be doing it. They would be -- they're giving the positive hopes in this regard, and probably a little bit of delay may be there because it's a security concern out there. So first focus has to be to protect the people and the facilities and then to start the new projects. So there could be a delay of a couple of months. Like it looks like there is a silence as of now in the Middle East. So let's hope it continues. And like the flights and everything is also starting. So there's a positive outlook there. So let's hope a month or so if the resolution is achieved, we should be able to do so. And with respect to the Saudi, I would like to give you that information that Saudi office has been established. We have recently signed a long-term agreement with Saudi Aramco for the services. We are about to sign the -- another agreement with them for out of Kingdom services, which will be signed because of its Ramadan time it will be signed -- or sorry, peak time. So after this, this would be signed. So that's a long-term agreement going to be for 5 plus 3 years. So we'll be starting getting business inquiries from the client side and then start getting the jobs also in the time to come. So that is the positive outlook we can share with you right now.

But sir, of Middle East, let's say, for example, Africa, where we are seeing very strong pipeline. So has anything changed in the past 2, 3 months in terms of finalization? And how is the pipeline in the other overseas markets?

You have seen that in Africa recently in the month of last January, we have secured the biggest order value order from the refinery, the expansion project at 3,000 plus and fertilizer project, which we have also secured from them. They have -- there are more opportunities around there and in the same country. So we are targeting them in Middle East. Naturally, now the focus has also shifted into Africa because of this obstruction in Middle East, their alternatives would be developed in time to come. So let's hope that Africa market will develop and more of the hydrocarbon will be explored and facilities would come up? And then would this lower the opportunity for us.

Right. So what's the time line for this INR 3,200 crore order?

This is around 4 years, 5 years. It's roughly around 5 years. You can say 40, 45.

Understood. So now, sir, in the current situation, what kind of guidance you would like to give for order inflow or revenue for this year?

With respect to the order inflow, we'll stick to the existing numbers, which we have achieved around 8,000. We try to maintain and sustain the same. That's so far the best for us.

So again, this year also it will be skewed towards overseas because the F '26, we saw a very strong including Dangote from overseas. So this year also...

Aggregate between overseas and international whether will we get the good opportunity to may happen, you get a bigger project there, then that value becomes bigger, which basically, the aim is to achieve that target figure from wherever it is it comes, whether it's domestic or international, our focus is on all the time.

All right. Sir, lastly, I wanted to ask, was there any revenue slippage because we see relatively this quarter revenue versus expected or slightly lower. So even on a Q-o-Q basis, kind of not up to the mark. So anything which happened in terms of slippage? And is there any impact of supplies or any other thing amid current situation to your kind of operations?

On quarter to quarter...

In terms of commodity cost impact or any other impact also, yes. Yes.

On quarter-to-quarter basis, there is no slippages in the revenue because in the last quarter, there was some change orders that we received from the client. And there was a change order of more than INR 200 crores, which we considered in the previous quarter. And that's why in the previous quarter, profits were so high. Otherwise, there is no slippage on the revenue part. .

And sir, the current consultancy portion, what's the confidence in terms of margin. In 15,000, we have more than 10,000 consultancy now. So what is the steady state margin we can expect from consultancy and turnkey for F '27, F '28?

We are continuously maintaining our consultancy margin in the range of 20% to 25% and in the LSTK business around 7% -- 5% to 7%.

That should continue basis the current book?

That will continue.

The next question is from the line of from Dalal & Broacha.

Could you please help me understand the order pipe and visibility over the next 1 to 2 years across your segments? Also, historically, what has been the conversion rate from identified pipeline opportunities into actual order inflows. Like for example, if the current pipeline is around INR 10,000 crores, what proportion would typically translate into executable orders based on past trends.

Madam, the order opportunities are available in the market in infrastructure, you see the hydrocarbon sector, there's enormous number of opportunities available but all of them takes a long gestation period in the tendering cycle. Most of them are the public sector. And they take a long cycle of realization and tendering processes there. Any tendering process take 5 to 6 months, 7 months in the wording. So those things are being followed. And typically, you can say hit rate, if we say that we originally hit at the rate of 20% to 25% of what we bid and what we see around. It's very difficult to say because the market is very broad, and number of opportunities are there. So that's how we go ahead on that.

The next question is from the line of from ICICI Securities.

So my first question is about the Middle East. What kind of opportunities do you think are available there? Are we expecting any orders from refinery for petchem in FY '27? And is the scope going to be similar to what we have seen historically in India?

Yes, exactly. All the miles, primarily the hydrocarbon only, it's mostly the refinery, petrochemicals, onshore oil and gas, offshore. So what is the criteria of these countries is you have to users with all the clients, the major clients there, and you have running agreements with them, that contracts are there. So there will be a competition with the limited number of companies and you bid for those. They keep on giving you assignment could be a smaller engineering assignment, like study could be there, it could be fee, it could be a major EMC project. So that is a number of types of assignments keep on coming, and we keep on bidding for that, and we keep on getting assignments. But primarily, just hydrocarbon.

Got it. And this as you mentioned your long-term contract with Aramco. So this is basically your entry in and then it will occur as they normally do. Is there some clause that there will be a certain amount of business that will be sent our way in these contracts? Or is this just in paneling?

No, nobody guarantees any business, minimum business. There's no retainership kind of arrangement in any of these kind of contracts. It is just that you are short listed. You don't have to go for open tendering. There would be a limited number of parties, we will be working around. And the Saudi Aramco is pretty big, and they have huge projects, number of projects. So they are always lacking in the number of consultants. So that is the best part that we have opportunity ahead with us.

And lastly, can we see that consultancy order inflow should be upward of INR 6,000 crores in FY '27 just like -- or do we believe that the number could be a little lower given how high the basis?

No, nobody can predict at this point of time. Probably after 1 or 2 quarters, we'll be able to understand what is the situation like that. As of now, the guiding factor is INR 8,000 crores was around the total business, including the LSTK as well as consultancy we are targeting, aiming to be there, try to achieve more than that. At this point of time, this much we can say.

The next question is from the line of Ronak Cheda from capital.

My first question was in your FY '25 report, 2025 annual report, you had mentioned that around 36% of your consultancy orders are one on competitive bidding. So just wanted to check on the remaining orders, which we -- which win at the PSU customer, is it an L1 competitive between? Or how is that -- is it a nomination business for us?

No, it is like this. Sometimes even if you say that competitive bidding competitive bidding could be with the number of companies, all the PSUs go for the competitor. Now there's no nomination for them. We go on a open tender basis. You negotiate in that concept, as you bid in that contract and you get the sign. With certain private sector clients, this could be a negotiated settlement or it would be -- it is kind of unwritten competitive analysis, even though there's no formal tender they, but they take bids from the number of parties and they negotiate with everyone. So you can say it is a negotiated contract. Maybe a single negotiated because you don't get to know that other negotiating with others or not. So it is now more or less it's a competitive world all together. There's no nomination cases are coming from the public sector unless there is a very critical project or there's nobody in the industry who can do it or it's a very cost or it's very critical for these sites like suppose Euro VI project, wherein you need immediate action by the -- sorry, by the instruction of the Supreme Court. So that's how they came to it all the refineries came to us, and we did that similarly, the energy optimization project for all the refineries because those are typical projects. That's how they into. In our company.

And sir, you have on record orders in our consultancy business in F '25 and F '26 given the majority of the order book. Should the next year, we should see a very strong growth, given that 25% to 30% of the execution usually for these orders happen in year 2 and year 3? Any thoughts?

Execution will be naturally these -- the mega projects are mostly for the duration of 3 to 4 years. So right now, in this financial, it has been awarded. It's just the initial stage. So next year, we'll be going -- some of the projects will be going into peak, and there will be peak execution set the execution.

Understood. And sir, when the APAC commission kicks in, will you see an employee cost jump in, let's say, F '27 and F '28.

We don't see a -- that is for the central government as of now. Public sectors will come later.

The next question is from the line of Kunal Bhatia from Dalal & Broacha Stock Broking Limited.

Yes. So basically, I wanted to understand looking at the current scenario where in due to the energy prices, everybody is talking about getting more self-sufficient. So how about your consultancy order, especially from the India side? Are EIL getting more inquiries are things of rectifying on that end? Could you give some sense on that?

With respect to self sufficiency that primarily the purpose of self-efficiency is due by the local products, local manufacturing. -- that in the refining and hydrocarbon that we are 1 of the prime leaders. So we have developed the market itself within India. So a lot of manufacturing and a lot of vendors are within the country. So that's how we contributed to the industry. With respect to the services part. Services, in any case, we were available in the market and 100% of the -- any kind of critical projects or hydrocarbon can be done in-house, we can do it, including the -- a lot of technologies are also being developed announced. So this has naturally boosted the utilization of the locally in-house developed technologies within India itself. So that could be one of the opportunity for all the hydrocarbon organization. So that's what we see. But as far as the localization concerns, vendors and all those are available in India, so not much of an impact should happen from this time because fulfillment is mostly from the Europe side or from the Southeast Asian side. So let's see how it goes.

Okay. So how about the, say, the demand from say when we see like got order from IOCL also, but for me the other oil and marketing companies and even on the refining and are you getting any more, say, traction or any more inquiries, anything which you would like to?

These are the general consistency. I think there is no change, where they keep on coming, the -- many of the ONGC facilities are getting revamped as a process. So they -- a routine business, it comes to us as an enquiry. Similarly, the will be floating enquiry, but it will be coming to us. So no specific -- it will be more -- if you're talking about the art of that, it will be more from the procurement side of it.

Okay. And sir, also in terms of your business in consistency, we did have this quarter, whether it be consultancy or the other business. Did we have any kind of one-offs or any kind of write-backs which aided the margins because even consultancy this time was a very high margin at 29%.

This quarter?

In this quarter, we have no oneoff -- no write-off.

All the normalized numbers.

All in normalized numbers. In the last quarter, there was a.

Right, right. And sir, in terms of -- final question from my side. In terms of Middle East, you had mentioned that the business was approximately 30-odd percent. But how much of our current order book is Middle East-specific?

10% to 15%.

10% to 15%.

The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

My question on the coal gasification, sir, the second set a second round of incentives government is looking to give to the players. Expected few core gasification projects to both stage in fiscal? And do you think, given that the size of this incentive is much larger than the first round? Do you think for us, this could be a sizable opportunity?

This is a good opportunity that government has increased the funding. So this is -- the projects which were slowing down in between and they were in, they have started pushing. It looks like the market is pushing for the coal gasification project. Companies are going for the coal gasification. So there would be opportunities and of the private companies who is looking for a big hole to chemical project. So their opportunities are now increasing. Let's hope for the best. It should come because more of private ventures are coming enough.

Yes. But with respect of some PSUs also PSU also to more of the value share.

It is also moving. As you have seen that Coal India has 3 JV, those projects are also moving.

And sir, our opportunity, sir?

Sorry?

For us, the opportunity size is how big? Do you think it is going to be a sizable opportunity for us?

It consultancy INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores, depends what size of project and what services they want to take it and which mode they would like to pay. The private sector would like to go on a different mode. The public sector companies, they go on different mode all together.

Understood. My second question, sir, on the profit from associate that income, of course, has become better in the last couple of quarters. for first 2 quarters where Q1 and Q2 are bad, I think there are losses. But is it fair to say that now they are stable and now they keep contributing at the current level of INR 40-odd crores per quarter? Is that a...

There some problem due to which plant was under shut down or maintenance. But now the problem has been resolved. And in this quarter, the plant was running well. Therefore, the plant has been, and we expect that plant will run on 100% capacity in this.

The next question is from the line of Mayank Chaturvedi from HSBC.

Sorry, I missed your revenue guidance for FY '27 and FY '28. Can you just repeat that for me, please?

'25, '27, '28 or '26, '27.

FY '27 and FY '28. Revenue growth guidance.

That's too far right now. Let's hope for this year, then probably next quarter, we'll be able to tell you something.

I mean I'm just looking at it from the perspective that our consultancy order book has more than doubled now in the last 2 years. So if, let's say, if the Middle East conflict had not happened, then the projects that we received in FY '24 and FY '25, could they be reaching those peak execution levels in FY '27 and FY '28? Would that be a right understanding?

Yes. Those would be -- I mean, as of now, the jobs which are awarded, these are typically for 3 to 4 years, they would be getting executed in the next 3 to 4 years. At the same time, we'll be targeting the business -- so let's see if this war would not have happened, at least typically 15%, 20% decrease would have been there in the business or if it's market is open quite a bit or more projects from we could land up in the bigger projects also. It depends on what kind of investments are coming in the market.

Okay. Sure. No, the piece -- I just wanted to -- I just curious to know if we formulate any AI initiatives for the consultancy business?

AI initiatives are generally used for internal, like engineering processes and costing purposes, not for the specifically business purposes. -- for our processes, we are trying to improve, like the costing system is there. We have AI utilizing this starting data quite fast, similar to these kind of initiatives we are doing for now, we have created a digitalization -- digitization departments within our company. So to the bringing AI in the system itself.

Okay. So cost optimization in what aspects exactly?

So cost optimization is I'm just giving a reference for any of the projects we do lot of costing for that project in the cost of projects. We need a lot of data, you need to assess the data at our size -- we have one of the examples and give you that we have started for accessing that data, analyzing and making the reports for that, just kind of things for improving processes using AI.

The next question is from the line of Amit Anwani from PL Capital.

Question on Infra business, which we have been highlighting that has been doing quite well in terms of inflow. So I just wanted to understand in how much is the portion of infra business in inflow, order book and revenue for this year for this year?

For this year it is around 25% in the order to -- it is a pro -- the order book, it should be -- I don't have the figures right now have to check specifically.

Okay. But what are the prospects you are looking here like out of 8,000...

Let me just tell you that we've been getting is with the seasons, like bigger institutions like we are working with doing. You must have seen this or these convention center has been done and the trading center has been do. We are working on that project, and we are further developing that facility, so we are getting involved with that. We are working with the NTPC in development of their own set -- we are working with a few government organizations like Government of Rajasthan development of their financial -- their building institutes and facilities. So we are working with within IIMs or IITs for setting up of their hospitals and the buildings and giving consultancy for that. So these kind of projects we are doing, some of the data center projects also we are doing right now. So this kind of niche projects we are targeting and with specific big organizations we are working.

Right. And now amid this crisis, I think the government is focusing a lot in terms of domestic energy production consumption to reduce probably imports and probably coal gasification, VGF was also a step. So are you sensing any step where you can benefit over the next 12 to 18 months? Some projects might be fast tracked or...

Yes, we are bidding for a few of the projects. We hope for the best because these are the new projects. Earlier all the coal gasification projects are running on very low slow pace and not much has been done in that. But now they are picking up the pace because of the government terms. So let's hope for the best these projects get realized and see the light of the day. We have been bidding for a couple of the projects, which we'll get to know some of the times what is the result of it after the results.

All right. So anything you're sensing on biofuels, ethanol, biogas, where you might have any opportunity to be highlighting.

We respect the biofuels one sustainable plant, we are already setting up for MRPL. We are ourselves setting up CDG plants in port in the Maharashtra with our own investment. So these are the initiatives we are doing in this.

The next question is from the line of Aman from Astute Investment Management.

A couple of questions from my side. First, on the Dangote site. So can you give an update on the both refinery as well as the fertilizer update where are we in terms of different things.

Contracts. These are being awarded to us. We are executing these projects, both of these projects.

Yes, I wanted to understand the time line for the same?

Timeline, it's around 4 years. 4 years. Right now, we're in the initial engineering and ordering, supporting clients and ordering of the equipment facilities. Gradually, a short period of time will be going for the intial 5 facilities what we started as well as engineering and other activities would start. Some supply would start coming, document review would also start coming from the departments. License is going to give some documents will start to review those documents. So it's almost -- started somewhere in January. So it's just 3, 4 months and quite a good pace is there in the work. The owner itself is monitoring the progress and pushing the ordering and all. So we are working very on a faster pace for these projects.

And can you tell me the amount also for us individually, what is for the fertilizer division, fertilizer plants and what is for the refinery plant? The order for.

We were at for working, we were awarded for $360 million. And for fertilizers, we were given us $70 million.

Okay. $70 million was it for one line, there were I think 4 lines that was supposed to come up.

Four lines. Yes. $70 million for 4 lines. It's a single contract with.

Okay. Okay. And the execution book, do you think can start by the end of this year, parallelly or do you think first refinery will start and fertilizer will be delayed to next year?

Too early -- our activities have started. They could be preproject. -- site activities would start with the engineering is in full progress that's going on. Type would start early towards the end of this financial this year or early next year, 3 project activities will start at that time.

Okay. That is helpful. Sir, next on Dangote only, I was reading there was a plan of -- more such plants in Tanzania and other places also, both fertilizer as well as refinery. So do you expect such kind of orders to be repeated obviously not immediately, but say FY '28 or maybe '29 and getting...

It all depends on the owner and negotiation, discussion -- it is just in the preliminary stage on the new so let me come on to the ground, and we keep you updated in this progress.

Sure. Finally, on the domestic side, sir, a couple of big projects are coming up, which includes BPCL,, which includes -- you have talked about a little bit towards the Paradip project -- and -- but there are IOCL different projects also. And Haldi also. So any time line of the initial feasibility I was reading, I think it is starting now on the Andhra project, big projects. So any time lines from where you can expect such things, FY '27 or it will be FY '28.

Andhra feasibility studies on, there would be like a selection to be done or it would start shortly. And thereafter, a copy towards the end of the financial year, they should be able to start the, but they will have to go for the -- after the study complete they will have to go for the financial closure. And we anticipate that they would start project activities in this financial year itself. I told the Phase 1 is almost on the verge of position. And towards the end of this year, they should be able to start the new projects. The Phase 2 of the product, that is the implementation and the second EPC, EPC award phase and EPC execution phase. They would -- they may.

And anything on Haldia, the IOCL, I think, North, there is Panipat or something is also coming up?

There's nothing of IOCL Haldia as of now...

High. Okay. Both are discussions...

Yes, talking about?

Yes, I'm talking about 2 different. One is Haldia projects and 1 is IOCL, Panipat and all those things. So...

No, no. Panipat is going on. Panipat 325 is going on, that's on the vantage of construction and commissioned soon. And Haldia and all is probably in the initial stages, the starting phase. We're not seeing the tender as of now.

Sure, sir, just final some question. On the Middle East side, how big do you think this business can be for the Engineers India over the next 2, 3 years, not immediately. But given the opportunities that we are seeing Middle East and Africa, both if you can talk about for Engineers India, how big it is in 2, 3 years?

We have secured around 300 and something.

That order we have secured, I'm just trying to understand how big this can be for our company over the next 2, 3 years?

No, it is going to be big. We have established offices. We are starting those offices around at least we should be able to get INR 1,000 crores to INR 2,000 crores worth of projects there. We are aiming to be big, but it takes time -- and on this Middle East situation, let us see what will happen in time to come.

Inflectionary do you think will be FY '20 or it will be mostly FY '29 for our company in this region? Basically the inflection year, inflection year for our company in terms of numbers and growth from Middle East and Africa, do you think it will be FY '28, or will it be more of FY '29?

It should be around 2020 -- towards the end of '27, '28, '29.

The next question is from the line of Amit Singh from 360 ONE Capital.

Just had a query on what is the execution time lines for consultancy project our turnkey projects? That is my first question.

Our execution time line of consultancy projects?

Consultancy and turnkey project. First consultancy and then turnkey.

Consultancy and turnkey, both of them would be in the range of 3 to 4 years, any big project would take 3 to 4 years. It's just a more changes, it doesn't matter, but the time execution remains the same 3 to 4 years, depending on the size of the project. If a smaller consultancy assignment is there, it could be 1 year or so. But a mega project good size project pool like 3 to 4.

Okay. So both of them 3 to 4 years. Got it. And sir, I just wanted to understand that after this Middle East war have we seen any uptick in inquiry pipeline in the domestic market? Both on the consultancy and turnkey end?

The change -- we have not seen any change in domestic inquiries. For us, at least, I have told earlier also. So for us, consultancy is the regular business, it is the same. [Audio gap] as a consultant, all the Indian projects were to be executed by the Indian consultants, so whether it's EIL or any other consultants, by Indian.

Okay. And any change that we have witnessed in the international pipeline, international query pipeline.

International pipeline, I told you that Middle East is a little bit slower right now. Africa is activating. There's a lot of hype there in Africa. So let's see because of these people, maybe investments would be diverted as an alternative hub could be developed in Asia. So there could be future opportunities there for all of us.

The next question is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICICI Securities. The next question is from the line of Kunal Bhatia.

in terms of this old gas application, how much would be seen a smaller on the largest of the order. So what could be an average order size if coal gasification order was to be to ?

So these projects are the initial stage. I can tell you the rough project cost, any regular project cost of the project would be around INR 10,000 crores and the bigger project is they're going for the multipatent and now it could send up in INR 35,000 crores to INR 40,000 crores. Very difficult to consultancy fee at this point of time. I don't know what way they would be executing it all depends.

Okay. So -- but broadly speaking, what is the kind of opportunity that could open up for a company like Engineers India?

So what I'm saying is, if the project size is around INR 40,000 crores. So there is a big opportunity for us for cancers services. It could be P&C, they could give some smaller assignments, competent the study phase, initial the pace would be there, will be there or we could be part of as a consultant be part of the detail engineering process. So those are the initial speculate this point. So multiple ways we can get associated.

Okay. So at the moment, there is no, say, sort of a minimum on an average size which we couldn't telling you the size?

No, I'm telling the size of the project, the size of the project noted. The consistency fee at this point of time.

The next question is from the line of Nidhi Shah from ICICI Securities.

I just wanted to ask in Q4, we've seen that the consultant EBIT margin has been significantly higher than our guided 20% to 25% range? And was there any one-off year? Any specific project closing or something like that? Or is that just the normal course of business, the mix has changed for 1 quarter.

In the current financial year, we have -- from our clients. And in fact, that change order was INR 221 crores, for which we have already incurred the expenditure. So that was the major change.

So if we take out the impact of that and what would the EBIT margin for Q4 on the consultancy side, be?

No. In Q4, the other normalized margin, basically, there are no exceptional cases based on the execution carried out by the company, the margin sort in Q4 specific. That I am talking about the whole financial.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of from Saket Kapoor from Kapur & Companies.

Sir, firstly, on the bid pipeline, if you could throw some light where we are L1 currently for both these segments?

For the number of price a bit, some of them are in the negotiation stage. It's very difficult to say that we are well on -- these are negotiated and resulted, but a clear which is available is the Paradip. We are there if it is awarded in this financial year, so that would be coming to us. Otherwise, there are a number of projects wherein we have given the bid we have -- we are in the negotiation process. We are discussing those. So the result would tell that we perform.

And sir, then for this current year, how should our EBITDA margin profile -- blended margin profile should be or how should both the segment margin profile we should factor in for the current financial year. And in terms of the revenue growth also, what should be that range? That we should expect for this year's execution?

For the current financial year, our segment profit in the consultancy segment will be around 20% to 25%. That is already there, and we will maintain that. And for the LSTK business, our business segment profit will be 5% to 7%.

And the revenue or the execution pace, what likelihood we should be doing on what we have done for FY '25, '26?

Definitely, just now only 2 months have been passed, and we are expecting minimum 10% to 15% increase in the 12 months.

Okay. SP1 And sir, just one small casing point. When we see our results being uploaded at the stock exchange, those numbers are not very clearly readable. So we would request the secretary team to take note of it. So that going ahead, steps are taken verifying whether whatever has been uploaded is in the right -- is it readable or not? One can check it in the Bombay site also, we have to zoom in to higher levels just to read out the numbers.

Yes. We will.

Kindly take into consideration.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we take this as a last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.

Okay, thank you so much. Thank you, everyone, for this participation. And it was wonderful talking to all of you. We'll keep you updated in the next session. And hopefully, the market would stabilize and see the positive side of stopping the war completely. And let's hope we don't get into the worst situation. So let's hope for the best, and we will talk next time, and we'll keep you updated on this. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, sir. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.

Thank you.