Entertainment Network (India) Limited (ENIL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Entertainment Network (India) Limited Q1 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call. Joining us on the call today are Mr. Prashant Panday, MD and CEO, Entertainment Network (India) Limited; and Mr. N. Subramanian, Executive Director and Group CFO, Entertainment Network (India) Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prashant Panday. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Utica, and welcome to the conference call, dear investors. As always, I'll make a few opening remarks, and then we will be happy to take your call. With me is N. Subramanian, who is the Group CFO, as you know. We sent you the investor presentation, but allow me to touch upon a few highlights of the quarter gone by. The quarter was a mixed quarter. It was a mixed quarter in the sense that there was growth compared to the same quarter last year. However, compared to the prepandemic level, it was still a very bad quarter. Compared to the last year's quarter 1, the revenues have grown by 44% on a like-to-like basis. EBITDA has -- underlying EBITDA has grown by 39% approximately, and PAT has also grown by approximately 24%. So it was a better quarter than the same quarter last year, clearly because the lockdown this year were more staggered. They were more local, and they were less restrictive than last year. But compared to the same quarter in the prepandemic period of time, like I mentioned to you, the revenue growth was 71% lower than 2 years ago. And instead of EBITDA profit of INR 33 crores, we reported an EBITDA -- reported EBITDA was minus INR 18.7. So clearly, the operating leverage that the radio industry works under was in play in this quarter. And whatever revenue loss we suffered has actually gone down to the bottom line and converted it to a loss. But honestly, I will tell you at this point in time that it is not something that worries us any longer. When we were speaking with you last year, we had no certainty about what was going to happen, and I would say that we were more worried last year. But in the year that has gone by since last year, we have made a lot of progress in this company. And therefore, I'm not overly worried with the results of the first quarter and look at the next 9 months of the year with a lot of confidence. And in fact, we are seeing the recovery being much faster in the months that have gone by, which is in July. We are also seeing that the August month has begun well. And we believe that if the third phase were not to come, then the recovery will be far stronger this year compared to what we saw last year. And also remember that we have cut the costs very dramatically. So therefore, what it means is that in terms of the profitability of the company, it's going to be a better time compared to last year. Now in terms of the -- explaining the revenue performance, the revenues improved compared to last year, largely because of the growth of volume. In fact, pricing was down by 5% at an overall level at the network level. Volumes were up about 60-odd percent at the network level. So it was clearly volume-led. But again, that is something that we have known. It doesn't surprise us. Whenever a recovery happens from very low volume levels, recovery is always first in volumes, and then it is followed in [ rise ] in pricing. Recoveries. If you look at the volume recovery, all of the sectors which had actually underperformed last year have come back in a big way. The biggest category for us is FMCG, which was up by 140% in volumes, ad volumes. Health and pharma is the second biggest sector for radio, it was up by 157% in volumes. The third biggest sector is kind of auto, which was up 135% in this quarter for the radio industry. Also, categories like e-commerce, which have become very big, were up by 700%. So approximately 8x in volume compared to last year. But government and political continued to be a drag on the volume performance of the industry and the company. So the key takeout is that after 1 year when we look at how the sectors have performed, their confidence in radio remains high. And they have backed it up by giving large volumes to the radio industry. Despite this, the capacity utilization in the industry remains pretty low. In our [ topic ] market, the capacity utilization was just 31% in this quarter. And in the batch 1 and batch 2 stations, it was just about half of this at about 16-odd percent. So there's a long way to go. And I think in the second quarter, we will continue to see volume build up happening. We will continue to see pricing remaining similar -- at similar levels, but not really growing. But if the third wave does not come, then we -- I think that in the Diwali quarter and in the fourth quarter, which are traditionally very strong quarters obviously, we should start seeing both volumes and pricing going up. Now the revenues that we did in the quarter, nearly 40% came from our solutions business. And we are now going to start talking about our solutions business in 2 different parts, one being solutions and the other being digital products. And the reason we are carving this out for you is because digital is starting to see a lot of traction. And this year, for instance, out of the 40% that solutions plus digital contributed to revenues, approximately 12.5% came from digital, and the remaining 27.5% approximately came from core solutions. Where we used to combine for 40%, we are now splitting it up into 12.5% digital and 27.5% for core solutions. We have mentioned this earlier that we see solutions and digital growing faster than traditional radio in the years ahead. We see the share of digital and solutions climbing to approximately 25% each or approximately 50% in the next couple of years once things stabilize. So clearly, solutions and digital are the 2 sources of growth, which are going to be continuing in the years to come. Now the good news, of course, and it's a continued sustained phenomenon that the margins have been improving on the solution business. The margins on solutions, core solutions were 53% in this quarter. Now this is, of course, a very high margin. And one of the reasons for this is that we were not able to do on-ground events. And on-ground events come with a lower margin. So this number will taper down in the quarters to come as on-ground opens up. But even so, we expect that lower margin to still remain in the mid-30s or even the higher 30 percentage. It was 53% in the first quarter. The good news is that our digital growth is powered by in a profitable way. So gross margins on our digital businesses were approximately 31%. So digital is growing and profitably. Solutions is growing and profitably. Now let me just tell you a little bit about traditional radio because at the end of the day, 60% of the company's revenues even in this quarter came from radio. And in the future quarter, 50% will continue to come from radio. Well, it is our belief in this company that FY '23 and FY '24 could possibly become golden years for traditional radio. And the reason I say this is that it is expected, and you will agree with me that FY '23 and FY '24 will remain years of economic slowdown in India even after the pandemic has receded and gone away. Now, of course, FY '22 will see a growth of 8% or 9%, but that's on a low base of FY '21. But if you were to look at steady-state growth of FY '23 and FY '24, chances are that, that growth will be somewhere in the region of 5% to 7% per annum, which in India would be called a sluggish growth. Now we have observed that whenever the growth is sluggish but there is no lockdown, which means the retail establishments are all open, that's an ideal combination for a vehicle like radio because brands start spending much more on promotional activities. And when brands spend on promotional activities, the first medium they use is radio. And we have seen that whenever there is an economic slowdown, then radio gets consumed. So I -- we have a feeling that FY '23 and FY '24 will be strong years for traditional radio. But before the growth happens, we first have to recover the FY '20 levels that we have set, which will probably happen in the early part of FY '23. And from that point on, '23 and '24 should see growth in traditional radio as well. So basically, the point I'm making is that all 3 engines of this company should see growth coming up in the latter half of this year as well as in FY '23 and FY '24. In terms of international markets, you may be aware that we've made pretty big strides in the recent past. We opened -- we entered the UAE in -- on 28th of March in a brand licensing. And the news is that the channel is being accepted very well by the listeners over there. The UAE market and Dubai, in particular where we operate, has started to open up, and the business has started to flow. And we are performing quite well in Dubai. We launched in Qatar just before that on 21st of March. And Qatar also has been going through lockdowns and many other issues, but the markets have started to open up in Qatar as well. We launched Bahrain on 9th of May, and the Bahrain market is a small market, and these are early days. So we are still observing. But the whole region is now emerging from the COVID crisis. And I think we will see some good revenue performance coming up in the quarters ahead. And lastly, on 4th of July, which is the American Independence Day, we opened up San Francisco. We commercially launched in the Bay Area. And signals are available now from the entire stretch from San Francisco all the way up to San Jose. And it's a huge market in the U.S. It's the biggest radio market for South Asians and Indians. And we have also launched just yesterday Telugu radio station in the Bay Area. But this is entirely online. And with that, we are doing an experiment because as you know, in the U.S., online radio consumption is very popular. And there's a big Telugu population in the Bay Area. So if we are able to appeal to them and we can get advertisers on the back of that listenership onto our app, then I think we would have found a very good way to enter many other markets in North America and Australia and New Zealand and the U.K. and many other countries. So the Telugu experiment in San Francisco is very interesting, and we will keep you informed as things go ahead. Finally, in terms of cash, we closed the quarter at INR 213-odd crores. And despite pretty significant EBITDA loss, we were able to keep the cash drain at just INR 5 crores because of very good collections performance during the quarter. Now the one question that everybody asks, a lot of people ask in quarterly conference calls, and I want to state this upfront, is a question of dividend and cash distribution, where our position has not changed since the last time we spoke with you. The Board of ENI will take a call on these matters at an appropriate time. Unfortunately, today, we are not in any position to give you any further update from what we had given you 2 months ago. And I will just restate over here that the company plans to invest a substantial portion of its reserves in the digital businesses going forward, not in the radio businesses. And in the digital businesses, we see it as a combination of investments we make directly and investments that we make in external opportunities, either -- but there will be adjacencies to the strength of Mirchi. We don't want to blindly invest in digital opportunities, but we want to invest in opportunities which are around the area of operation, obviously, where Mirchi either will lend its brand name or which it can lend its relationships with the film fraternity, music fraternity or its brand name or its people or wherever the synergies can be put to play is where we will also look at external opportunities. So at the right time, we will come back to you with more information on what we are doing with the cash and what will be our dividend declaration policy in the future. At this point in time, we are not in a position to share any more information with you. With that, Utica, Subramanian and I am available for any calls that the investors may have.

Before we proceed with the question-and-answer session, we have one of the speakers as Mr. [ Sanjay Bala ], Head of [indiscernible]. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Rohith Potti ] from Marshmallow Capital.

Am I audible, sir?

Yes, Rohith. Go ahead.

Okay. Great. Sir, my first question is on the platform business. If I remember in the last call, we had mentioned that we are getting the approval from the Board on a strategy in the platform business, and we'll be getting a material update on the same in this call. So it will be helpful if you can share your thoughts on this right now.

So Rohith, we have been in discussions internally and with our Board on the digital strategy, but it is work in progress even as we speak. And what I can tell you for a fact is that we are working on launching our web and apps platforms. What I can also tell you is that it will happen in -- towards the end of this calendar year or the early part of the next calendar year. We will be [ standing ] many product lines, including more [indiscernible] products, et cetera. But specific cross product lines and specific strategy pieces are still to be finalized with the Board.

Understood. So a couple of follow-up questions on this. In the last call, I believe you mentioned that we won't be investing a substantial portion of the cash in any way. And in this call, you said -- this call, I think you mentioned that you're investing a substantial portion [ of our results ] in this new venture. So if you could give us some more details on what the cash investment will be going forward as well? Because I understand between INR 23 crores and INR [ 24 ] crores. [indiscernible] around INR 100-odd crores of free cash every year. So over the next 3 years, we'll be technically having total cash of around INR 500 crores, right? So in that context, what is -- how do you think about the cash distribution and investment in digital businesses? What is the quantum? Is there any share right now?

So Rohith, just like I said, these are the things that need to be discussed with the Board, and we haven't reached that stage yet. But what I can tell you is that the cash that we have on hand and the cash that we will generate will be the [indiscernible]. One, of course, is the investment that I mentioned to you in digital, both internal and external. They will also be used for the -- for -- as a hedge against any future crisis that may happen. And you know that there are uncertainties even today with respect to the pandemic and with respect to the -- any economic slowdown which may follow. So that is another thing. And then, of course, there is also the whole opportunity to distribute the cash amongst shareholders. But this entire discussion is what is not yet chosen, and I'm not able to share details and specifics with you.

And I believe around the time of elections, these tend to become the largest or if not one -- the largest, one of the largest contributors to the revenue pipe. And if I understand [indiscernible] in [ this territory ] I think in the next 2 years, you're going to have a lot of state elections than we've had [ within recent memory ]. But generally, how much in advance have you seen this government election, government programs come into radio? And do you think we will see that over the next couple of years coming back strongly?

Yes. So 2 things happen typically. One is that government starts spending on its programs, and that usually happens a year before the elections at the central level. But at state levels, it is a shorter window. But then there are some states which start spending earlier. You might have already seen that in the newspapers, there are some advertising which is already starting from Uttar Pradesh. And elections are, I think, about 6 months out. So typically, states will start advertising 6 months ahead of the election date. And then, of course, the actual election advertising, it happens once the election commission announces the dates from there.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Nagraj Shenveshikar ] from Luberon Capital.

I have a question about capital allocation on what you mentioned, the web and the digital, the app platforms. This ballpark, you will have a sense of how much something like that should cost, right, in your head right now. How much should that be ballpark? Because the problem with an app platform is it's just another app that is on someone's phone, one of the cluttered number of apps that are already there. I mean, your sister company, Gaana, already has a very good app that is already on or likely on someone's phone or it might be [ a farewell mountain ] like [ BIGO ] or [ windcap ] and then definitely be [ treated ]. So just another app on someone's cluttered phone. And then we already have our stations on Gaana. The sort of rationale for doing that and putting another app sort of becomes slightly big. So just want to get a sense of the amount of spend for this web and this app investment and why we are thinking about adding another app to a cluttered sort of offering of OTT video and radio and the caps already in the market?

Yes. Good question, [ Nagraj ], and that's precisely what I meant when I said that these are the strategy points that need to be closed with the Board. You are very right in asking where is the place for another app. And we are fully [ fears ] of that matter, which is why we need to look at what kind of positioning we are going to be adopting for the platform, what kind of content we are going to be placing on the content -- on the platform, how are we going to be finding synergies with other group assets that we have, and so on and so forth. These are all things which are working toward. We have our ideas. We have an idea about the investments that are required to be made. And we are also aware that it will take a few years for business to grow and to recover the investment and to breakeven even in these businesses. But we also know that the advantages and the reason why we are entering this market is because, as you know, in this business, it's very important and vital to own the customer. And today, while we have great confidence in our content capabilities and our content has, as you know, powered external platforms for many years, we did more than 700 million views on YouTube, more than 500 million listens on Gaana, many, many more million consumption on social media and others. So we have a lot of confidence in our content strategy. But how do you position the platform is something that is still work in progress. And therefore -- and that is the reason why I said that I'm not in a position to share anything today. But I can assure you that it is work in progress. And when we discuss and prove the strategy, it will cover the areas of content, community, commerce and technology. And we will come back to you as soon as we are able to.

But no, I absolutely trust the group to make and generate the best content. And I trust the capital allocation, but just it would be great to focus just specified and sort of what we have done with all these things in mind? And secondly, on the solutions business, as I understand, there is a large linkage between radio and the media solutions business. What we said in prior con call that 25%, 30% of business would be making a campaign, putting it on radio and the other portions of the on-ground, digital, et cetera. So to an extent, is the media solutions business joined at the hip with the radio business? Or are there lots of campaigns you do, which only include on-ground and say digital campaigns firmly? And how does this compete with, say, internal competition from media solutions arms of the BCCL family or the Gaana entity? Is there sort of sharing of revenues and work? Or is the competition between the arms as well?

Okay. So -- and again, let me answer this question because there are several parts to it. First, you are very right that the solutions business or at least the media position business is joined beside -- I won't say at the hip, but it is certainly connected with the advertising, the spends of the client. So yes, if the advertiser shuts the advertising spend down, then solutions or the media solutions business also gets hit. But there are other components in the solutions business which are not directly dependent on the advertising spends of the advertiser. For instance, a lot of the business -- for instance, when we do concerts or when we do on-ground activations for clients or when we do activations on ground, which we then carry to television, these are kind of businesses which do not rely -- which do not depend on radio at all, which actually take money from the advertisers from a different budget of theirs from what is typically called a below-the-line budget in many cases or it takes budget away from media, which is money, which is allocated to other media. Like when we do our television IPs, when the money comes really from television budgets of the clients or when we do our video content, the budget really comes from either television or OTT business. It doesn't come from the radio budget. So there are some parts of the solutions business which are connected with radio, and there are other parts which are not connected with radio. So I think -- I hope that this clarifies that particular position. Now yes, there are synergies with the group. For instance, it's in a deal I require to take -- if I think that my solution needs a newspaper advertisement or newspaper coverage or it needs to put up a show on a television channel as part of a solution, then I will approach Times Now or Times of India, but these billings are at arm's length basis. And typically, we would pitch for a lower rate with our sister companies in the group just as much as any external clients would pitch for a low rate with our group company. So it's at arm's length, but we try and get favorable terms because we're generating incremental business for those companies. So that's as far as that is concerned. And the last part of your question was whether there is competition from other group companies. Well, actually no, and the reason is very simple. Because one of the characteristics of the radio business is that it is relatively small in size. I mean, we did INR 550 crores in the prepandemic period of time. But [ time is ] INR 5,000 crores. Now for a INR 5,000 crores [ an imprint ] to try to bounce like a INR 500 crores [ baby ] is very difficult. And therefore, they typically are not in the same comfort zone with respect to solutions as we are. Secondly, I'll tell you that solutions are best delivered by entertainment companies, not that much by news organizations because news organizations tend to be very rigid about their content and tend to be -- and are very, very concerned with the neutrality of the content. But entertainment products are all about fun. We reach a wider audience, and we can do a lot more. We have a lot more flexibility with what we do with our content. So we don't take any competition from Times of India or from Times Now. Gaana is too small. MX Player is in a different business. So to answer your question, within the group, no, there is no real competition. In fact, we do partner with other companies and use their assets wherever required for our solutions.

The next question is from the line of [ Manish Gandhi ] from KPMG Investments.

I just have one question. Say, what we are planning to do in a few things in digital, it seems like what Times Internet is also doing. So direct-to-consumer from the different properties like MXP and like many other social commerce you want to do. So why would say if I'm a Bennett Coleman and want 2 companies doing almost something similar? Or are we doing something very different, which Times Internet cannot do?

Okay. So let me attempt to answer that. And again, like I've been saying Manish, a work in progress. So don't take my answer as a definitive answer. But see, think about it. What is it that we can do which no other group company can do? Or in fact, no other company outside of our group also can do as well as we can do. I think the whole music and entertainment piece is something that we have very deep roots in. We are probably the only company that does concerts, which does music shows on television, which does radio, which does activations which relates to music and entertainment. And we have deep relationship with music artists. Do you know that there are more than 200 senior artists across the country who actually work for free [ for the industry ] when we create the awards or the video shows that we make using free celebrities? I don't think that there is a single entity in the whole country or within the Times similar group who has all of this in its capability set. And on top of that, the brand Mirchi has a very strong connect with audiences. So there certainly is room for a brand like Mirchi to do a certain amount of activities on the online space. Now I'll give you an example from a different industry. If you look at how Nykaa started. Now Nykaa is started by creating an e-commerce platform for beauty products. And then, of course, today has become much bigger, and it has become a whole platform where it's also in a marketplace. But see, what happened is it's not that beauty products are not available on them. They were available online. But somebody made it their core competency and then sold beauty cosmetics in the best possible way, better than what Amazon can sell or Flipkart can sell. I think that opportunity exists today. Considering the fact that today, the online commerce is just about -- I'm told $60 billion or $70 billion in India. And I heard at the conference recently that in another 5 years' time or I think by 2030, so in another 7, 8 years' time, it's going to become a trillion-dollar opportunity. E-commerce of all types managed in India is expected to become a trillion-dollar opportunity from some $60 billion or $70 billion that it is today. I think there is room for a specialist music and entertainment platform to create a lot of communities there, to create products there, to create commerce there using the content capability. So I'm just giving you a broad outline of what our strategic thinking is about. We haven't finalized anything. And these are -- as you can know, these are very difficult decisions -- discussions. We have had consultants who are looking for us. So I think it will give us -- give us 6 more months, we will have a proper strategy, and we'll be able to answer your question more thoroughly. But the opportunity is enormous and we will not be stepping on other people's toes.

Right. Right. So I would understand better when I have an opportunity to meet you or the new CEO you hired for the region. So just kind of a related question, when you're doing so many things, we have so much opportunity, right? So I'm not saying that you shouldn't do that. So we are in Gulf in few countries. So why are we then again going to America and doing -- so is the management attention also diverse? When we are seeing so great an opportunity in India, why we are diverting our attention? I know it's -- we are not investing more. We are just investing INR 5 crore. But still it's attention, right?

Yes. So let me answer that question. You are very right. But the way we look at this international opportunity, we are just dipping our toes into what we would call a low-hanging fruit. See, these are -- who are we targeting? We're targeting Indians who live in these markets, right? These Indians already have an affinity to Mirchi. They do not have good content available. If we can we make ourselves present over there, in our own mind, the advertising dollars will follow immediately and fast. In terms of investment, the investment that we do, in terms of management time, it's independent teams would work in these markets. So we have a CEO for America, who will look after the expansion in America, look after the expansion in Canada. We have a person who looks after the Middle East. And it's these 2 people, and we have one corporate resource sitting in Mumbai. That's the team. There is no other team. The P&Ls in these countries have to absorb the cost of any other thing that happens. So when you look at the pros and cons of our international strategy, we figure that we have more to gain, and the distraction is not that much.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Rohith Potti ] from Marshmallow Capital.

So broadly, I think my questions have been answered. It was just to understand how group strategy will stand within the Times Group Internet piece, which I think you alluded to in the last question. So my question has been answered.

All right. Okay.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jinesh Joshi from Prabhudas Lilladher Pvt Ltd.

Yes. I just have one question on the additional content creation side. In the presentation, we have mentioned that we have created some content for MX Player. So first, if you can explain, I mean, what is the team strength when it comes to original content creation on the OTT side and how is the pricing involved? And what kind of margins do we make on such content? And going ahead, too, do we plan to create content for some outside third-party OTT platform? Or will we stick with the in-house company, which is MX Player?

No. Of course, we will not stick to only MX Player. We are already talking to outside platforms, but each platform has a different requirement of content. Some platforms want long-form content. Some platforms want a mix of long and short form. Some content -- some platforms want IP transfers to them. Some platforms are happy to let the IP remain with you, and they just want licensing of the content. So there are some platforms don't want any brands built into the content. Some platforms are okay with brands. So it's a mixed lay of the land out there. So to answer your question, we are looking at all of those platforms. Now in terms of original content, remember, much of the work gets done outside of the company. So the team that we have is a relatively small team. And this team basically looks at creative ideas that come to them, and they green light the creative ideas. Now once the creative ideas are greenlit -- and there's a process in this business where a certain amount of story line is written, a couple of episodes are written down in detail. And then you present the concept either to platforms for licensing or you present it to brands if you're selling it to brands. Now depending on the response you get, you greenlight a few, and you keep working on the others. Once it is greenlit, it is typically then outsourced to a production house to produce. And at that point in time, our team supervise with it, but it can also move on to other projects that they can handle. So it is typically -- like if you look at even a television company, there are a number of people who work in the programming team of a television company are very few because a lot of the work is actually done outside of the company, in the production studios that exists outside. So it's the same over here. The skills that you require really internally are in terms of accessing the scripts which come to you, get theme scripts written to you, knowing what will work in the market and basically, all the stuff that comes around the kind of content you must create. And we cannot do all types of content because we are not known for it, so then to focus on doing stuff that you can do. Our focus is on trying to create more short-form content, a lot of vernacular content and trying to sell these shows not just as shows but as a marketing proposition as well. So you see the stuff -- the work that's happening around [ Anni Kay Hava ], our weekly variety show that we have just licensed to MX Player. We're also doing part of the marketing for them. And it's, again, therefore, in that sense, a solution that we have provided. We gave the content, and then we also provide the marketing solution. So our approach in the market is not that of just a production studio. It's much more. We own the IP, so we bring the brand. And in this deal, we have also got a brand in to MX Player. And we also do some of the marketing for them. So it's a combination of all these things.

Fair enough. Can you highlight what kind of margins do we make in this entire existence?

So see, again, margins vary by product category. We normally don't like to do outright sale of the IP. But like I mentioned, there are some platforms with interest on it. We haven't come to that point yet, but we have a model there. And obviously, the margins there would be higher. But if you look at licensing, where we get the IP back to us after a year or after 2 years depending on the deal, there, the margins are lesser than an outright sale. But they're still pretty healthy. I mean, I would imagine that margins are between 20% and 30%, 40% are possible in this business. And that's what we have done in the last year when we did the deal. We got -- I think a -- how much?

29%.

29% or thereabout is what we had got from the 10 show deals that were done last year.

Fair enough. Sir, one last question. On the pricing front, I mean, do you think that pricing will make a comeback strongly in Q3 and Q4? Or we feel that it might be a slightly longer period in the pricing recovering back to the pre-COVID levels? I'm talking about the radio effective rate pricing?

So I don't think that the pricing will come back to prepandemic levels in the third and the fourth quarter. I think volumes will come back to prepandemic levels, and volumes will go higher than the prepandemic levels. In fact, don't forget that even last year, in FY '21, in the third and the fourth quarter, volumes had gone ahead of prepandemic levels. So I'm very certain that the volumes this year will go far ahead of the prepandemic volumes. I think pricing will -- remember, pricing eroded by about 30-odd percent compared to prepandemic levels. I think the pricing recovery will take place -- take a couple of years. It won't happen in just this one first season. It will probably happen maybe 5%, 10% now. And then in the next year or season, it will recover another 10%. It will take -- it may go on to FY '23 or FY '24.

Next question is from the line of [ Shekhar Manda from Vivo Commercial ].

Yes, just wanted to know like what was roughly the capacity utilization this quarter for our old stations as well as our new stations?

[ Shekhar ] I'd like to mention the 8 legacy stations, the capacity utilization was about 31%. For the next 27, so we have 35 legacy stations. For the next 27, it was about 33%. And for the phase 3, which is batch 1 and batch 2, both was approximately 16%, 16.5%. So very, very low capacity utilization.

All right. And how do you foresee them for the next 6 months, like any ballpark number?