Envipco Holding N.V. (E1P0.F) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Presentation]

Good. Well, good afternoon, everyone. It gives me great pleasure to welcome you to Envipco's first Capital Markets Day. My name is Simon Bolton, Group CEO of Envipco. And again, fantastic. We have so many people here in Oslo and also joining online. It would be my pleasure with the rest of the management team to, in the next few hours, talk about the company in a bit more detail, talk about the exciting opportunities that we have and also the journey that we started and that we continue to see a bright future going forward. The first thing is, what gets us out of bed? Why do we do what we do? And it's really making recycling easier for everyone. Why is this good? Why is this important? If we make recycling easier, then people do more of it, okay? Our customers typically retailers, they like to use our machines. Internally, people find the company easier and obviously, everyone, external stakeholders understand what we're doing. We are a recycling technology business, and our focus is beverage containers. So making recycling easier for everyone. Why is that important? If we do that well, then ultimately, we create a cleaner world for future generations. And that's our vision, and that's what's driving us forward. Why is this important? Well, you can't pick up a newspaper, go online, watch the television without understanding the continued crisis that we have as a world with respect to plastics. And we can play a part in that in addressing beverage containers, plastic, aluminum and glass. And this is the opportunity to do so. We know we have the solution, the solution that works, the solution that works across different countries. And that is really a deposit return scheme. So for everyone in the room here, this is second nature. You probably grew up using a deposit return scheme in Norway, where a small deposit is added when you buy a beverage container, which when you put that into a return point, you get that back. And by separating those materials at the beginning, it allows that much -- that material much more easily to be used in new bottles going forward. And so this creates then an opportunity for the circular economy to really spring into action and be live. And where there's a deposit return scheme, then the recovery is massively different. So I come from the U.K. At the moment, we have kind of curbside recycling. Those schemes where different materials are mixed together, 30%, 40% of the containers that my family carefully puts in that bag get recovered. With a deposit return scheme, you ultimately can get to 90% or over 90%, very important. And Envipco, we automate that system, the products and the services that we deliver help that system run. They help that system run effectively and efficiently through our compaction technology securely with anti-fraud. We deliver reports and data to all the stakeholders in that system. And ultimately, that means that we recover and reuse a lot of these components and materials and delivering on the targets that nation states have. And you'll see there's a couple of examples of our products, our smaller products, which Andrew will go through in a little bit more detail in the technology section. And in terms of where we operate, there's 3 examples of where we've recently worked in those countries. Malta, Sweden, an existing scheme that we've introduced new bulk feed technology in to increase recycling rates and more recently in Romania. We've been doing this as long as anyone. Over 40 years, Envipco has been focusing on single-use beverage containers. 80s and 90s, very much focused in North America where the business was founded to help promote and develop those systems in the 10 U.S. states that have legislation. And then more recently, we've pivoted over to Europe, initially in Sweden, and then more as we're spread across Europe. We've used our skills and experience in the U.S. to position ourselves to win in new upcoming markets in Europe. We have a broad product portfolio that's important. Major retails -- retailers have now have a huge variety of space, not just the big out-of-town mega stores, they have gas stations, they have small convenience stores, they have midsized supermarkets, they have situations where they want machines outside, et cetera, et cetera. And we have that broad portfolio to satisfy their needs. The other thing we have is we have 4 manufacturing sites, photos you saw on the video earlier. Why is this important? There is a huge wave of demand for our products and services coming up. It's going to be important that we have the capacity and the ability to be able to deliver to those customers. Some of these schemes as funds will go through are going to kind of go live at a similar time. It's important to be able to respond to that. And so the U.S., Romania, Germany and Greece, that gives us a highly flexible production capacity up to 30,000 units, similar to what you see on my left-hand side, the Flex and the Compact, and 3,000 of the larger special products. We now have in -- not just in production, but in technical service and administration over 500 people and we operate in about nearly 20,000 square meters worth of facilities to be able to deliver those units. But obviously, products don't deliver themselves. And our key element is the people. We have done a great job at recruiting talent, motivating and retaining talent in the business. And we have clear -- set of clear values that has come from the history of the business, entrepreneurial. It was family run before. So about commitment, about vision, about performance. We know we need to perform. We think, hopefully, and hopefully, at the end of the presentation, you'll understand the key elements that gives us confidence that we can do this over the years ahead. And always within an environment that shows high level of trust and respect. That is important to us. And that those set of values we feel also differentiate us versus our competitors and some of the other technology vendors out there. As mentioned, as countries react to legislation, there is going to be a significant demand for RVMs. This is one way of looking at it. In the last 3 years, new schemes have covered about a population of about 42 million people. In the next 3 or 4 years, just under 300 million people will be covered by a scheme. In the next 5 years, that will be over 400 million. And roughly, the demand for our goods and services is in line with population. Obviously, the more people, the more return points you need to be able to cater for that increased beverage flow. So what does this mean? Well, right now, it's taken 40 or 50 years for this industry to install about 100,000 units, okay? So quite slow -- quite slow and steady development of machines in field, okay? In the next about 5 years, for everyone to hit their legislative targets, we'll need another 200,000 units. So the total addressable market will triple in the next 5 years. And obviously, that creates exciting opportunities for the company. As you saw from an earlier slide, we really -- around 2020, 2021, we really pivoted hard to generate an infrastructure and organization in Europe. We've had success with that. We put out some long-term targets to help guide our actions. And we're updating those. So these are our new targets, which we'll go through for the rest of the presentation. How can we deliver on these in the next few years ahead. Our focus of this growth and the opportunities we see is around greenfield markets, okay? So these are countries, U.K., Spain, Poland, Portugal, that do not have a deposit return scheme at the moment. In those countries, we want 30% -- more than 30% market share. Gross margin, we had that as a target before. So around 40%, we're committing to that as we drive efficiency in the business and we get the right price for our product and services. And we've added a new target as we develop and we slightly mature on this growth journey, we want to drive sustained profitability. So we want in time to have over 20% EBITDA margins. So they're the targets that will drive the business in the next few years ahead. And in the next couple of hours, you will hear detail how we're confident we're going to achieve those. So what does the next few hours look like? So after me will be Mikael. He'll go through strategy. What's a legislative environment that's driving all of this? Then Fons will go through our commercial processes. What's happening in the market? How are we going to try and tackle and achieve this higher than 30% market share? What about brownfield and what are we doing there? We'll have a short break. And then Andrew will talk us through technology products. We've got, again, we are not easy to get those on a plane in carry on. But anyway, we managed to get a couple of products over here. So we'll go through technology. Patrick will go through finance. And then I'll finish off before we have a curated Q&A session. And [ Markus Fabian ] thanks for helping us with that. And then afterwards, we've got some drinks outside for those who wish to stay and we're very open to have a chat with you. Good. Sounds good. Audience goes wild in Oslo and says, yes, that sounds great, Simon, if in case you missed that online. So without further ado, Mikael?

Thank you, Simon. Good. Let's jump into this. So as Simon mentioned, Envipco has been on a fantastic journey. Over the last few years, we've seen revenues grow significantly. Let's take a step back and see what are the groundworks, what has driven this, what's the platform that has enabled this. This company is stemming from the U.S., 40-plus years history, having a very solid basis, a strong fundament in the North American market, started venturing into Europe in the mid-teens. First, by venturing into the Swedish markets as brownfield and an established market where Envipco developed technology together with the DMO operator in Sweden to help Sweden increase collection rates. Sweden had a system in place for a long time, but was struggling to get to 90%. Envipco technology has helped Sweden do that over the last decade. And they're now starting to approach 90%. Also, Envipco ventured into Greece, a market that not yet has a [ DRE ] in place, DRS in place, a deposit system in place, but that wanted to start increasing collections together with a partner that was a second European market. Then in the '20s, we've seen fantastic growth driven by the entrance into new deposit markets in Europe. Establishing a very strong market share in those markets well north of our targets. The driver is the appearance of new deposit markets. Most deposit markets in Europe were established in the '90s and early 2000s. It's a whole list of markets. Since the early 2000s, not much happens. One market came about, Lithuania in 2016. But as we approached 2020, we saw an increasing number of countries starting to work towards introducing or wanting to introduce deposit schemes. And the list was long. This list, Envipco started 2 targets. By starting to invest, prepare. The company was already listed in Amsterdam, had a secondary listing and secured funding through the listing in Oslo, started to invest in the organization, started to invest in assembly facilities, putting up, setting up supply chains, et cetera, in the European markets, starting to approach this market opportunity. Together with that, the company set up targets, announced these targets in 2021, having the ambition of capturing plus 30% of these new greenfield markets, aspiring to grow gross margins up towards 40%. And as a result of the expected introduction of DRS in Europe, saw the potential to increase revenues by 4x to 6x. And Envipco has delivered. Hungary has introduced DRS, opened in January 2024. Envipco has secured a 60% market share in Hungary, where the market now counting more than 4,000 RVMs. We're 1 of 2 RVM providers into Hungary, delivering to the operator, the MOHU Group in that market, and primarily supplying a variety of Flex RVMs that you see here to the right, and Optima's. Then you have Romania going live in December -- no excuse me, November 30, 2023, 35% market share on a market now counting around 6,000 RVMs. In Romania, we've delivered our full fledge of products from the Flex to the MODULA to the Quantum and everything in between. As Simon mentioned, we have assembly facilities in Romania. We have a big business and sales team in Romania. Now we also have an R&D facility. And then there's Greece, a market that not yet has DRS, but where Envipco, together with our partner, has been able to deliver a network and set up a network of more than 1,000 RVMs. So that's somewhat we're delivering. And if you look at this across the markets that we're in, Malta, smaller markets, Envipco is the only player. Greece, Hungary, 60%; Romania, 35%; Ireland, slow adoption still after the startup 1.5 years ago. But we still are quite confident that we will continue to increase our share towards our targets. Scotland had a DRS pilot in 2022, 2023, is now aligning with the U.K. DRS startup in 2027. And the commercial case that Envipco had in the Scottish market was very, very strong. So overall, the company has delivered well north of its 30%-plus market share target across these markets where we've entered. Gross margins, solid improvement seen coming out of COVID and all the difficult supply chain that most businesses had, a pretty solid run, not quite at 40% yet, but on our way. Our opportunities are driven forth by political action. Timing will always be a factor in that. That's factors that are outside our control. If we look at the list of markets that were expected or that had plans on being introduced in 2020, and what has actually happened, there are some differences. Most markets have been delayed somewhat. Some haven't gone live yet, and we also see the appearance of Hungary that was not on our list. That's the market. That's the playing field that Envipco was in. This is part of the game. What we can control is how we approach these markets when they are ready. And that is what we will continue to do. So we've delivered on these greenfield markets that have come live. In addition, we are positioning selectively in brownfield markets where we see that we have technology that can help these markets: A, increase their collection rates; or B, improve the cost structure of those systems. We've done that in Sweden, as I mentioned. We have 170 Quantums across the country, initially only with a system operator, now also commercial installations with the retail stores. They have chosen to take out their RVMs, in-store RVMs, and replace that with outdoor solutions, 170 Quantums out of a total pool of 4,400 RVMs in Sweden. Less than 4% of the RVMs capture 15% of the volumes in Sweden. These are highly efficient machines. Also in the commercial space, there's a customer, retail customer in Sweden that swapped out 5 RVMs inside the store initially with 1 Quantum, added another Quantum, and now has 3 Quantums, increasing their collection rates dramatically. And of course, as retailers get a handling fee, the payback on these investments have been very, very good. We're copying this Swedish example in the Netherlands now. The Netherlands in 2023 added cans to its DRS, doubling volumes sold under this deposit scheme. The infrastructure was not ready for this. So collection rates dropped off a cliff. Public criticism, official criticism, something had to be done. We saw an opportunity, a place sold our first Quantum into the Dutch markets in March 2024, and have since had a number of installations. Now most recently also added a preferred supplier agreement with the operator in the Dutch market to be able to help Netherlands increase collection rates. So we've had our greenfield markets. We had our brownfield markets that we've dealed about, and that has driven this revenue growth. From being a business of EUR 30 million, EUR 35 million, tripled those revenues to more than EUR 100 million, not quite 4x to 6x, but there are more markets. And as I mentioned, the timing of introduction of DRS is outside of our control. Our job is to be there when these markets go live. And that is what we've positioned for over the last few years, and that brings us to the next chapter. So where I show that historically, we've seen intermittently countries introduced to DRS. Now there's a regulation backing the rollout of DRS across Europe. So we like to say, it's no more about if, it's rather when. First one, EU packaging and packaging waste regulation set in forth -- force, set in force a year ago, mandating 90% collection of all beverage containers across the EU through the use of a deposit system, entire EU. In addition to that, really driving the need for technology is to create the demand side for the material. By requiring the industry, the bottlers to increase their share of recycled content in the production of new containers, 25% of plastic containers put on the market this year needs to be made out of recycled material. That increases to 30% in 2030, and more than doubles to 65% by 2040. This requires a clean material stream. Our equipment, our technology enables that. So there's a population of 265 million people in EU yet to have a DRS. That's a fantastic opportunity. And then there is the U.K. The day after the EU announced their packaging regulation. Keep in mind, this is a regulation. So it needs to be followed by every nation. The U.K. also has passed DRS legislation and is moving quickly ahead for the introduction of DRS in October 2027. That's 2 years away. In national, DRS, interoperable through their 4 nations with the same targets, 90% collection targets. This market will also require a lot of automation. So we have the PPWR. We have the U.K. DRS. We have a wave of opportunities coming our way in the years ahead. We've been through now, as Simon mentioned, 42 million people in DRS markets being introduced over the last 3 years. So the top 3 markets here have already gone live: Romania, Hungary, Ireland. We're still delivering on these markets. We will continue to deliver on these markets, even though we most likely have the majority of deliveries behind us. The next 2 markets coming up is Poland going live from October this year. Portugal going live next spring. And then successively, we're seeing U.K. coming 2027. Spain, we'll see exactly one, '26, '27 type of time frame. And then we have other markets as well. Greece is planning rollout with DRS. We believe it's likely to start happening next year. Czech Republic is more of a 2027 type of market opportunity. And then you have Turkey, which also, over the next year or 2, and they've been working on this for a long time, are preparing to go live as well. These are all key target markets for Envipco. And as you will hear later, markets where we already are engaging and have been for some time. That's our business model. That's how we work. That's in our DNA. So how can we put numbers on this? Simon put a big number up there, 200,000 RVMs over the next 5-plus years. We can break it down like this. Poland, Portugal, Spain, it's another 45,000 RVM potential. On top, that's close to 50% growth of what's already out there, those 3 markets, U.K., another 35,000. So the 4 markets that are coming up now over the next couple of years, 80,000 units needed. We've established position. We've proven our ability to deliver. And then EU markets outside of these initial markets, another roughly 75,000 units. Turkey, around 35,000 units, and then some peripheral markets around. Those are the big building blocks of the 200,000 unit market opportunity. At an average selling price of around EUR 20,000 per RVMs, that translates into EUR 4 billion-plus market opportunity. It's unprecedented. This industry has never seen this type of market opportunity reveal itself driven forth by regulation. So we're maintaining these ambitious targets in our core markets, our greenfield markets, we continue to aim for plus 30% market share. We believe we've proven our ability to do it. We believe we have the products. We believe we have the market presence. We have people and we have the identity, the backbone to deliver on this. These greenfield markets are going to be the clear driver behind the growth over the next few years. But in addition to that, we will continue to work selectively on existing markets as well, existing brownfields as we have been doing in Sweden, as we are in the presence of doing in the Netherlands. We've now installed our first units in Austria. We're looking at Slovakia. We just now, Ireland is a deposit market, where we just introduced the Quantum there as well. And as you've seen, we've also started to introduce the Quantum into North America. A new segment also, processing centers, collection centers, extremely high volumes where a regular RVM takes in a few hundred thousand containers per year, our Quantums in the North American market are taking in 1 million or 2 million per month. Big numbers. We see a great opportunity over time to build on this. So our brownfield growth strategy will also be a core part of our growth, even though the growth most likely from this area will not be as big as the greenfield area, but it does offer great opportunity. We will be looking for markets that are struggling to get to their target collection rates off of 90%. We will look for markets where -- that are less cost efficient. Maybe they have a lot of manual collections, maybe they have an old outdated machine park, or where there are underserved segments where our technology can be a complement to what they already have. The Compact here is a great example of that as well. Finally, we will be on the outlook for M&A. We will look for complementary technology to what we have. We will be looking for access to market. We will be looking potentially for installed base into a new market, could be a brownfield market. But we will stay true to our core. We are a recycling technology business and we will continue to be a recycling technology business. We will have a strict risk, reward assessment on any potential targets. We know the opportunities, but we also know the risks involved in doing M&A. But M&A is such as Sensi last year, a start-up in the Irish market. Having developed and introduced the Compact, giving access to a new segment, convenience stores, which you will see makes up a very large share of markets across Europe. That's a fantastic fit for Envipco. Getting access to a great team, great technologies that we may potentially also over time, can use in our existing products. New ways of thinking that can make our products even more efficient. A good risk, reward assessment, a great strategic fit for Envipco. We're very happy with getting the Sensi team on board. So Envipco's growth platform is very, very solid. And we have 4 pillars on which we will continue to develop the company. One, we have existing markets. We have a platform in North America. We have now a platform in Europe. We will continue to deliver that platform, to develop that platform and to continue to deliver increased market share, hopefully, over time. Two, greenfield growth. There is a wave of opportunities coming our way through regulation in the EU, in the United Kingdom, and we see also other markets outside, 200,000 RVMs are needed, a tripling of the market, and 80,000 of those are coming up over the next 2, 3 years as Portugal, Poland, Spain and U.K. go live. Brownfields, we will continue to target markets where our technology adds value, helps meet national targets, make systems more efficient. And on top of that, of course, have an outlook, have an eye open for other incremental opportunities. So with that, I'm going to leave the word over to Fons, who will take us through our commercial strategy and how we're going to target these markets, how we're going to win our customers and what other competitive factors we have. Please.

Thank you, Mikael. Thank you very much. To raise the bar, that's very good. Welcome, everybody. My name is Fons Buurman. I'm CCO for Europe and Asia. I started with Envipco around 5 years ago. and I'm based in Amersfoort, Netherlands. And as Mikael has shown, it's been a great journey the last 5 years, spectacular growth, really hard work with a lot of new teams in the new markets. And I think that laid a very good foundation for us to learn from it and to see how we should approach the next upcoming markets. And that's what I would like to talk a bit about to you today. But before we do that, maybe it's good to have a look at what is a DRS market, how does it work? I think here for the audience in Norway, like Simon said, second nature. So it's a well-known topic, but maybe for the people listening on the webinar, it's not so much. So basically, DRS system, there are the 3 main players, which is the government, the beverage producers and the retailers. So basically, the government lays out the law. So they define basically what packages should be in the system, which retailers should collect the packages, when should the system start. And also, very importantly, they define who will be the DMO, which is, of course, run by the beverage producers because they have the responsibility to set up the whole DRS system. The DMO is mostly also run together with the retailers because they are the collecting point. So basically, those 3 stakeholders are very important for us to get engaged with. A good, organized, efficient DRS system is a kind of self-funding because they use the income streams from the materials that they collect. And they also use the unclaimed deposit fee, which is still in the DMO. So if you have around 80% collection rate, that means that about 20% of the deposit is still available to run the system. Over time, when they reach 90% collection rate, they need to be more efficient so that the producers don't have to pay basically the gap that is left because that's the responsibility of the beverage producers. Although the system is, in most countries, the same. Every country manages to do it a bit a bit differently. So that means that we really have to be engaged with those guys because they think of different materials, different technology requirements, different store formats that need to collect. So that brings us to how we approach new markets. So the main stakeholders were going quite early. So we talk to the government to help them support, how to set up the system. We talk to the beverage producers and also to the retailers. Like we've, seen the experience we have in Europe in the last 5 new markets is really helping, but mainly the legacy we have in the U.S. is much more helping. Next to that, we have a team of experts in our company, which have been in the business for more than 30 years. So we leveraged that experience with our recent technology. Which is helping the local teams. So what have we been doing in the U.S., basically, in 1979, [indiscernible] invented again Compacting machine. So that was basically the first RVM machine for cans. Later on in 1982, he founded the company, and that's where we have our roots. Over time, we also started to provide services as an operator. So we also arranged the logistics and the clearing system between all the parties involved. So next to the technology, we also have the experience in-house to work as a DMO. That experience is very helpful when we go to new markets in Europe. By delivering good steady quality of machines but also to deliver very high service levels because you can imagine in the U.S., that's very critical, we've been able to maintain long-term relationships with the main retailers and we have been able to capture a market share of around 45% in a very stable market. Unlike in Europe, where we see now a dramatic growth because of the new regulation, in U.S., it's much more stable. With over 7,000 machines installed, it's a very steady base. If we look at new countries, so of course, the DRS setup is different in the countries, so we have to be flexible, but also our customers are different. And even certain stores within the same customer are different and they require different solutions for collecting the containers. So basically, we always say there's not a one size fits all, although maybe it looks like a box with a hole in it. If you go deep and you really analyze what is needed, there's much more to it. So basically, we use a kind of graph where we have different elements, and those are typical things that we discuss with the retailer. What's the location of your store? How much storage space do you have? How much staff do you have? What are peak moments in your week to avoid queuing, all those things we add together, we analyze it together with the customer. And then we come basically to the best solution for them. And luckily, we have a very broad portfolio. So next to all the experience and the knowledge we have, we also have a broad portfolio, which we can use to find the best solution for our customers with the recent added Compact, which you see here, very small machine up to the large bulk feed machine, which is mostly placed outdoors. We can basically cover all the needs of all the customers. So within those 7 models we are now running, within each model, we can even modify certain characteristics of the machine. So we can change the bins inside to accommodate mixed containers or separate containers to have PET and cans. Maybe later on, we can add glass. So these are typical things for customers, which are very important because then they are secured for the future. If things change in the DRS, we were able to change with them. So next to all that flexibility. We also see that it's very important to offer us a very strong service package as the machines are from high quality, but they're heavily used. Some of the machines are overused because consumers bring back so many containers. So a very good service team is important. A very good help desk is important so that the people can pick up the phone, they get a quick reaction. The machine is up running again because for retailers, it's super annoying that the machine is not working because then they can get complaining customers. If it happens often, the customer doesn't come to your store anymore. They go to somewhere else where the machine is actually working. So it's not only a service, also a potential risk of losing sales to the customers. So service is important and also the different financing models. So in Europe, we see mostly a straight sales model. So sales of the machines and later on, the service fee for maybe 5, 7 or 10 years. We also offer lease models very much preferred in the U.S. where basically the machine price and the service fee is mixed together in a fixed monthly fee for a period also of 5, 7 or 8 or longer years. Model that also exists in certain markets, and we also see now some more demand coming in new markets in Europe is a throughput model. So basically, the customer base per collected container. So of course, we know exactly how many containers the machine takes. So based on that, we can calculate how much fee they have to pay. So a bit slower ramp-up in the EU market because volumes tend to be slow in the beginning, afterwards, they pick up. So then also, we see our revenue stream go up. But that also means our costs go up because the more the machine takes, the higher the service. So 3 different business models, very flexible, sometimes we finance it ourselves. Sometimes we work with third parties in the market. And also because the retailers are mostly our customers, they are very good financing options. So in a lot of cases, we will also work with their own preferred bank. So this is basically what we can offer. Then if you look at the new markets, what we've seen in the past is that we identify 4 basic phases. So the first phase is really the DRS initiation phase. So this is the phase where the government is working on the law, it can take a year, but it can also take 5 or 6 years. So it's very hard to judge when the law will be finally approved and when things really start happening. So that's a challenge always we have when we step into a market. Mostly, the first step is with 1 or 2 business development [ persons ] so relatively small investment. But we have a local presence, and we have direct feedback from what's happening in the market. So that's the DRS initiation phase. Then when the law is passed, the DMO is appointed. Then we get more in the preparation phase. So in the preparation phase, we tend to build out our team, add a few more technical people, start to pilot projects with the retailer so they can experience what it is to have a machine in the store, how much time is needed for the store staff, et cetera. So then we have a slightly bigger team locally. Then when the DRS goes live, of course, 6 months before, it's extremely busy because thousands of machines have to be installed just for it to go live. And that makes our business so unique because it doesn't happen very often that there's one date that the nationwide system goes live with technology. So it's super stressful. All the machines need to be ready. They need to be online and tested. The store staff need to be trained so we spend a lot of time on that. So at that time, we have a full technical team installed who was able to install the machines, but also just before and after they go live, train the store staff and offer kind of hyper care service to them. After 6, 12 months, you see more stabilizing market people are getting used to the machines. The consumers are getting used to it. The store knows how to operate it. Then it really comes into cleaning habits and those types of things. And then we are more focusing on our service program. Of course, after that, there will be a second and maybe a third wave because you see smaller stores who started manual collection. They see it's basically taking too much time. So I'd rather have a machine. So that's why we have the Compact, very affordable machine, doesn't take up a lot of space. So that's mainly the second and the third wave that we start adding those type of machines. Also, on the other side of the equation is the Quantum. So people with a Optima or another type of machine, they say, "Hey, I can use much more volume. So let's put a Quantum outside of the parking." So basically, we can spread out the investment and the revenues over a period of 5 to 7 years basically. Then Mikael told you about 2 new markets. We were successful in the last couple of years. One of them is Romania. So to give an example, in Romania, of course, we had a production plan. So we were present in an earlier phase. But the actual commercial activities started around 2020. So around 3 years before the actual go live. So we had a heavy involvement with the government, with the municipalities. We started piloting. So we were present. Then when the go live was -- we had a modest market share, but because of our good quality and good service, basically, we managed to build up our market share quite rapidly after the go live. So in 2024 and even still this year, in 2025, we see a lot of stores that have not chosen a machine before, they choose our technology so they have a machine in their stores. So basically, we are one of the few suppliers in Romania, which are growing our footprint in 2024 and '25, giving us about 35% market share. So you see, sometimes, you can have a long tail after go live. As a system, Romania is performing really well. They are around 80% collection rate. So that's very solid growth. And that's also typical what we see. We also see it in Hungary and in Malta that -- the earlier markets in Scandinavia, they took long periods to get up to 80%, 85% collection rate. So basically, we expected that those new markets would also take longer, but that's not the case. Basically, you see in a year or 2, they're up to 80% collection rate. So somehow consumers are picking it up much faster than in the earlier countries. So that is something which we take into the new markets to prepare basically all the stakeholders for much higher volumes from the start. They're doing really well about 80%, but they have to grow up to 90%. So we expect another 2,000, 3,000 machines to be added to the total market in Romania in the coming years. Hungary is a total different market. As I said, every country is different. Here, the DMO, so the MOHU Group is the operator. They decided to purchase all the machines for the whole country. So they rolled out a tender. They invited a few suppliers. And in the end, they chose 2 suppliers to supply all the machines for the country. And then they define together with the retailers what type of machine they need. So stores over 400 square meters. They need to have a machine. Stores between 200 and 400 square meters, they can choose whether they want to do manual collection or machine collection. We managed to get around 60% market share. So we have spread over the whole country. We have a full team in place in Hungary who's doing the installations and the service. So it's now running a bit more than 1.5 years, and they are also already at 80% collection rate. So very high collection rate. So basically, the operator now also takes a pause in installing new machines. So basically, you want to optimize their system to reduce the cost, to optimize the logistics. And then next year, they start focusing on adding more capacity in the market to reach 90%. And one of the things they're looking at is also, again, the bulk feed system, so basically our Quantum. So those 2 markets gave us a very good experience to jump into the new markets. One of them is Poland. I think Poland is on everybody's radar because it's the largest new market in Europe that goes with the DRS. Again, here, totally different setup. They let the operator market basically to the market. So they said, if you are a beverage producer, you're able to apply to become a DMO. So basically, we saw 8 operators in the end, now it's reduced to 6. So there's now 6 active DMOs competing with each other in one way or the other in the market. So that complexity also means that things take even longer than they normally take because they have to figure out how to clear the whole system between them. They have to find out, they have to fight for contracts with the retailers. What is the handling fees? So they're competing on handling fee. So it's a very complex system. That's also why we see now more of the commercial opportunity shifting into 2026, whereas earlier, we thought it would be more second half 2025. So you see we are dependent on how the law is structured, how the regulations is being put in place in the market and about the timing. It is really what's driving the timing of our business, and that's also the big challenge for us. But again, it's a big market. There are some big international chains, some big national supermarket change and also a huge amount of smaller stores, which are independent or semi-organized in the different like franchise setups. So we're talking to all of them. We have a quite extensive team in Poland, which is engaged with all the retailers, which is engaged with all the operators. So really try to follow all developments day-by-day. And it's -- I can tell you it's a very dynamic situation. But happy, too, that we were able to announce an LOI earlier this year for one of the major retailers in Poland to deliver machines to 1,000 of their stores. So we expect deliveries happening first half of next year. In Poland, we specifically expect a long tail because there's so many small stores, which typically start manually and then later on, they start using a machine. Another market, much smaller but also interesting is Portugal. This is also an example of how long it can take sometimes because they started back in 2020, already with working on a law, but it took a very long time for them to -- yes, to be ready with the law. So basically, earlier this year, the law was approved. The DMO has been appointed. So now it's going much quicker. The handling fee has been set. The RVM specifications have been published. So they're basically kind of ready to go. And now we expect that they started DRS go live in spring next year. Next to the stores above 400 square meters, which is close to around 3,000 stores, and the smaller stores, which is around 2,500 stores. We also see that the operator themselves are looking at accommodating the HoReCa channel to be able to give them the ability to also bring back their containers in an easy way. So for that project, they want to install from the start 48 bulk feed systems spread about -- spread around the country. So we're talking to them about, of course, for our Quantum. One of the major retailers signed an LOI with us, expecting to start delivering Q4 this year to be ready when the system goes live in spring next year. So interesting market. Also, there are a lot of dynamics. We have a local team in place with technicians, a small warehouse. So basically, we're ready to start installing in Portugal. Then after those 2 markets, there's another wave of countries, like Mikael explained, the U.K., for instance, huge markets, total different scope. It looks like a very strict planning. They're moving very quickly. A big -- a lot of engagement from the retailers. Also those retailers have been involved in the Scottish setup of the system. So they know what it is. We're talking to the same people as we were talking back then in '23 for Scotland. So that gives us a good advantage to get going. Start date planned for October '27. So in our business, it's rather quick, especially if you look at the number of machines. So I think that there are around 35,000 machines need to be installed before we go live. That's a big job. So basically, we expect already '26 to see some activity in the retail that they are ready for the launch in '27. Also here, a lot of small stores, small convenience stores. Again, our Compact fits really well. We are very -- already now, in conversations with the retailers to position the Compact and the Flex with them, could be around 40,000 stores, which are in scope for that segment. Last but not least for today is Spain. Spain came as a kind of a surprise that they quickly announced end of last year that they are going to launch the DRS in Spain. Like at the end of the last year, it was mentioned because they didn't reach their collection targets. They said then 2 years, in 2 years, the DRS will go live. We know from experience that 2 years is very optimistic. At this moment, they have now closed the application for DMOs. So 3 organizations have applied for a license. They will decide early next year on who the DMO will be for Spain. Mostly, after the DMO has been appointed, it takes 18 to 24 months before the system really can go live. So that's the timing we expect. We are setting up our own local team again in Spain. As mentioned before, we look at the timing, it's the right timing. So Q4, we started with our own team in Spain. Up to now, we have been working with the stakeholders in Spain, via the team we have in Portugal. And also, Simon and I, we have been involved personally as well. So basically, we are already connected with the main stakeholders. The big challenge in Spain is -- it's the same size, more or less, as Poland in number of people, 40 million, but they have a huge amount of tourists. So around 40 million tourists every year. So if you look at the number of containers in the market, that's comparable to Germany, which have 80 million people. It's mainly driven by the HoReCa. So it's around 50,000 food retail outlets, but they have more than 250,000 HoReCa outlets. So that will be a major challenge for Spain. And also that 80% of the population is located in 20% of the country. So the 20% of the rest is in 80% of the country. So those 2 challenges will, again, be much different in Spain versus other countries. So therefore, it's important for us to be involved soon so we can start if needed, even developing new technology, which is basically needed for Spain. I mean that's also the flexibility we have, as you've seen that we are able to adjust our offering to the local market needs. So challenging times ahead, a lot of work to do. If you add it up, 4 new markets in the coming couple of years with a total addressable market of around 20,000 in the first 2 years and another 60,000 in the next 4 years. With all the experience we have, with the experience we have in the U.S., with the legacy we have in the U.S., I think we are really, really prepared to capture again 30-plus market share in those new markets. We have a very engaged and super enthusiastic teams locally, which is growing basically weekly. So I think we are in a very good position to move ahead. So with that, this is the first part of the session before the break. So I'd like to invite you for a short coffee break. I think -- what time should we need to be back? In around 20 minutes. Yes. So 2:25, if you would be back here in the room, that would be nice. Thank you very much. [Break]

I hope everybody got some coffee and refreshments. Next up, we're going to have our CTO, Andrew Keene, take us through our technology map, where we come from, get a better understanding of our best. So words yours, Andrew.

Okay. Thank you so much. And again, thank you all for being here, and thank you for the very detailed questions as well in the breakout sessions already. So I can tell it's going to be fantastic after this presentation. So yes, so my name is Andrew Keene. I'm the Chief Technology Officer for Envipco, and my background is 35 years of product design. So I come from automotive industry, designing engine cooling systems. I come from defense industry, designing intercontinental ballistic missile defense systems. I come from where you have consumer products out in the field with Procter & Gamble, Gillette blades and razors. For anybody who has a Mach 3 at home, I'd love to hear about your experiences with that product. And here at Envipco, I've been for 5 years, and it's been a great journey, as we've gone through transitions from one market to the next and looking at taking the history of the company to the next level. It's been exciting to help grow this group and really build the engineering team, which has been fantastic. So I'd like to start off with a little known fact about Envipco. So Envipco is the inventor of the DRS system for disposable beverage containers. So this is one-way containers that are taken back. Europe has the affinity for the refillable, recyclable, reusable container. In the U.S., it's been a focus from the beginning on a disposable container. And so one-way containers was the original focus of the company from the very beginning. And I'd like to build on that actually by telling the origin story of Envipco. So Fons highlighted a little with the patents from 1979, right on cue. This is 1976. Imagine a U.S. Marine Corp soldier coming back from his military service, coming back to his home state of Virginia and finding the beaches a mess. He had aluminum beer cans all over the beach. And he said, "This is an embarrassment. I want to do something about this." And he told his friends, "I think if I were to design a machine that would dispense $0.01 for every aluminum can put in, we could clean up these beaches. I think they could be spotless". And that's exactly what he did. So 4 to 6 years, and the original patent applied for in 1979, granted in 1982 for the can eater, quite a marketing name, and the can redeemer in terms of what we had for original products with Envipco. And we had the original patents over here. So I think it's interesting, Simon, as you noted, making recycling easier. The original vision for the company was just that, was how do I make it easier for people to do the right thing and keep the environment clean while recycling the materials. So this is 1982. And shortly thereafter, we had DRS laws filed in New York, Connecticut and Massachusetts to support this type of an infrastructure, this type of system. But this was the origin of -- at least from the U.S. side, of what we had for beverage container deposit and return. Okay. So today, we no longer dispense pennies. You'll be happy to know. It's no longer a copper penny. You can take your iPhone and get Apple Pay. You can take your credit card, you can tap, you can get credit card reimbursement, Visa, MasterCard, whatever you want there. You can have Tikkie, you can have Revolut, you can have Venmo, PayPal, any form of electronic. You can also have the industry favorite, printed paper ticket to bring back to the retail store. Retailers love the foot traffic coming through, spending more money in the store. So times have moved on. Today, we are 47 engineers, so 47 design engineers. We have 16 support engineers, and we are a global organization. We have 4 technology centers spread across Europe and the United States. And our design process starts with our sales and marketing team. They bring us the voice of the customer, the needs and desires of the customer, what is each market needing specifically. And then we go off and design our products and technology to match those needs and desires. We take the design, we conceptualize, we prototype, we brainstorm, we test, we test, we test, we market test, we pilot test in the field. Generally, these machines have had over 1 million containers run through them before they ever get out to the market and released. So highly validated designs, high-quality designs. We release to manufacturing. So our manufacturing partners bring the machines to life with our engineering specifications. They build the machines, and they distribute them, bring them out to the field service team, field service and support, supports our installations, making sure that each customer gets the machine they need, they want. It gets up and running, it runs smoothly, it runs well from day 1. They also provide feedback to our sales team and our engineering team on the machine's performance in the field. So we hear about opportunities for improvement. We hear about reliability. We hear about features that customers are requesting. And so it's a fantastic loop that allows us to continuously improve the machines and the technology as we move forward. Okay. Our engineering team is a full stack development team. So we have every engineering discipline, from mechanical engineering, all the way to machine learning and AI. We do everything with these machines. All the development is in-house. We're able to develop a customized solution that is highly cost-effective, highly reliable and also customizable to what the consumers need. So if we hear retailers are looking for specific features, we're able to do that, which is a great, great capability to have. Our core technologies focus on compaction, recognition, customer UI experience. We have our data, IT, fleet operations and then automation. So this is really important because as we think about how we play in this market and our competitors, these are points of differentiation for Envipco. This is what we do really well. We focus on these elements and we lead the industry as we go forward. Our product lineup. So we go from very small. As you can see here, we have our compact machine, which is the smallest machine, primarily targeted towards convenience stores, small-format stores, where you don't have a lot of space and you want to set up a machine. You can tuck it in the corner. People put it underneath the windows, so you're not blocking too much, but you're also not taking up retail floor space. Moving up to Flex. We have a Flex machine here. Ultra, Optima, HDS, Modula and Quantum. Modula is a backroom system. So this is a system that can be extended. It can be extended. It's shown here with 3 modules. You can extend this up to 12 modules. And so you can have PET, you can have glass, you can have one way glass, you can have refillable glass, you can have aluminum, you can add other materials as well. So this is flexible and designed for the future with a flat belt system that we can do more with as we move forward. And then Quantum, you saw and heard about bulk feed technology. Hopefully, many of you have used a bulk feed machine. It's a great experience. From a customer standpoint, you don't have to stand and put containers in one at a time, getting your hands dirty, spending half an hour. You can take your bag, dump it in, hit the button and walk away. It's a great experience. We have stories from our customers in Sweden where people drive 10 kilometers, 15 kilometers to go specifically to this machine so they don't have to waste half of their day returning their containers. And then they happen to go into the store and spend some money. So it works for both sides, and it's an absolutely fantastic product. And as you also saw in some of the slides, it's also now enjoying some great success in the United States within New York, and soon to be, California as well. So a really great story with Quantum. And yes, so this allows us really to support the needs of any customer, even outdoor. So as you look at like public parks and public bus stations. In Malta, we did quite a bit with like local locations that might be in the middle of a neighborhood and you've got a small piece of grass in the middle of a parking area. The city can put this down, so you don't even have to have a retailer attached, which is really important as we go forward and talk about getting to the 90% level for the countries of Europe. So I'll add on a little bit more there. But Quantum is designed to bulk feed. It's designed for outdoor installations. We have this product in the Arctic Circle, very, very far up and very cold. We have this product in the heat in Athens in Greece, and so it's able to survive that huge temperature swing and exist in these environments. And it's a fantastic product for kind of the next level of DRS. Compaction, so our first core technology area. Envipco very early became a leader in the compaction area, probably because of the origin with disposable containers, having to crush those containers and bring them back in a very compact format. Our technology has been highly copied by our competitors. It's always a sign that you're doing something right. And we continue to be a leader in compaction technology. It's important for a couple of reasons. Obviously, when you compact a material, it's lowering your trucking cost. You can fit more containers in a truck. You don't have to have as much diesel and fleet. But also total cost of ownership. So we specifically designed these compactors to last longer, to be more reliable and that gives the customer a better experience. You don't have to replace it every year, every 6 months, you can go for 1.5 million more containers before you need to think about replacing a compactor. So durability is a big point of differentiation. But it's very important for this industry that you have good compaction technology, and we are absolutely a leader there. Okay. Continuous improvement. So Flex, you can see over here to the side, is a great case study for continuous improvement. So introduced in 2015. We've continuously improved Flex by adding additional features and functions to the product, but we've also addressed the cost. So we brought the cost on the product down by 20%, as we've moved across this continuous improvement cycle. And we've increased the performance by 2x. So we're using lean techniques. We're using agile techniques. We're using Six Sigma techniques, and we're improving the product performance by focusing on reliability metrics, measuring and specifically focusing on the areas where we want to improve and we add features to improve the performance of the machine. So in addition to focusing on new features and new products, we've also got a very strong focus on the core and making sure we've got strong products that have a low cost of ownership and are also able to maximize our earnings as a company, very important. Technology is a key enabler. So as an investment community, this might be the most important slide in my section other than the cool technology stuff. 90% is the most important number on this slide. So for every country in Europe to reach 90%, they need to get beyond the traditional DRS. So the traditional DRS is you go into a supermarket, you put the machines in, everybody brings their recycling back. That will get you to 80%. I think 87% was what Simon showed on a slide. To get to 90%, you've got to go beyond that. So now you need to get into small convenience stores. You need to get into local markets. You need to get outdoors. You need to be able to go into public parks. You need to be able to go into other settings where traditional RVM systems don't apply and don't work. And this is where Envipco is focused. So we have solutions at the small end with Compact that can go into convenience and small end stores. And with Quantum, as you saw, we have large format machines that can go outdoors. This is critical to enable these countries to reach their targets. And Fons, I think, is experiencing this now in the commercial end with some of these customers who want to get to the next level, and we have the products to offer them. So it's a fantastic combination of technology and the commercial opportunity. Okay. So our 3 key priorities in our technology strategy are, number one, focusing on bulk feed. So the experience of being able to take your bag of containers and dump them is clear. As a consumer, that's what you want. You're going to go out of your way to find that experience, and we know that. And so that's where we're focused from an innovation development standpoint. Number two, convenience store segment. So it's been undertreated for a long time. I think our commercial team did an outstanding job identifying merger and acquisition opportunity with Sensi and the Compact machine. It's a fantastic product that fills that gap right now very nicely, great acquisition there. And number three, continuous improvement, so making sure that the machines are reliable and that we do lower the cost, so we are able to increase our earnings as we go along. So that's our key -- 3 key points for our technology strategy. And this photograph, I think, is 1.5 weeks old. So this is straight out of Ireland, the first installation of Quantum in an outdoor setting. So this retailer didn't have to give up any of their parking lot. They didn't have to give up any retail space in their store. And they get a machine that can process over 1 million containers a week, if you want to go. I mean it's an unbelievable machine. People drive from all around to get in and use this machine to process their containers quickly. And so it's going to enable Ireland. Ireland is struggling to reach their 80% and 90%. And so this will help them to reach that. And I'm sure there will be more orders to follow for this machine based on this. So Quantum-S. So we're proud to announce the launch of Quantum-S, our latest product, and this is 'S' for small. So we basically have taken the Quantum and shrunk its footprint down. So we have the performance of Quantum with the high-speed processing of containers, up to 100 containers a minute, fastest RVM that we know of on the market. And it's just a great product. People that have this product want more. They like to purchase more because of the throughput and the performance. But we had specific asks in the market coming back from our commercial team saying, our customers want a smaller product. They want to be able to go into a space that would only take 2 car parks. So the picture on the right, it might be a little confusing, but you can see the competition footprint for a bulk feed system in white, 6 car parks, okay? And then you can see our Quantum normal in the light green, so that's Quantum XL, 3 car parks, so half the size of the competition. So we're doing well there. And then we've reduced that even further. So we've reduced it down to 2 car park spaces. So now, if you're a retailer who wants to buy this machine and install it, all you have to give up is 2 parking lot spaces. If you don't want to modify anything, then you can drop it, run the electric and it's ready to go. Or as you saw in Ireland, you can make a nice, off to the side sitting area, which is very nice. But it's a very economical solution for retailers that don't want to give up any retail space in their store and don't want to give up all their parking lot as well for a huge machine. So there's a lot of interest for this. We were specifically asked about this for California. And so there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of retailer interest in the product. Okay. And in summary, so for us, as you can see from the very beginning, innovation is our lifeblood. So creating new products that make people's life better. So that improve the recycling experience for people, make it easier for people to recycle. And of course, you need technology to do that. I think somebody did say that it's a box with a hole. Yes, that's true when you look at it. I can assure you there's enough technology in that box to fly you to the moon and back. So rest assured, there's a lot of technology involved in this industry. A global organization. So that platform you described of having the U.S. and Europe as stable platforms to be able to build on, it's so important for us to be able to develop products in the market, for the market and be close to the consumption to really understand what's happening, and we're able to do that with our engineering team today. Leading the product range. So yes, absolutely, to really address the needs of all the different consumers we have in all these different countries, there's a need to have a very broad product range and also have the ability to customize that product range. So I'd say one thing that's unique about Envipco is that we are able to listen to the customer and make changes to the product. I know some of our competitors are unwilling to do some of that. And Envipco has been very flexible, consulting with the customer, understanding their needs and then developing solutions that are specific to address what they're looking for. And continuous improvement. It's extremely important. It's not the glory and glamour of developing new products necessarily, but it's so important from a core business standpoint to be able to have a reliable product that is a low cost and is very efficient from an earnings perspective. New market segments. And so as we go forward and say, look, the future is bulk feed, and the future is to be able to get to the 90%, to be able to go outdoors and in small stores, that's where we're pushing. The mid-range of the products is very well understood, and it's very well addressed, frankly. But the ends of the spectrum are really where we're playing from a standpoint of developing new technologies. And that's really about addressing our customers' needs. So making sure that these countries and markets are able to meet their targets of 90%. To help them get there is really what we're here for. So that's what I have from a technology standpoint, and I look forward to questions after. And I think I'll hand over to Patrick, our CFO.

Thank you. All right. I hope we still have everybody here for the best segment here, right? Now, all jokes aside, I think we heard some great presentation already. And before I get into some of the finance right, it's -- this all impacts the financials, right, and the finance segment and how do we get ready for the next phase. And maybe quickly to reflect a little bit on -- and some of the things already have been highlighted here in the previous slides, right? But where do we come from since 5 years ago? A lot happened, right? We're definitely not at the same place than we were 5 years ago. A lot of growth, top line, for sure. A lot of focus went on the top line. But in the meantime, we also almost more than 200% grew in our employee base, right? We doubled our factories. We added a lot of additional ERP platforms along the line with legal entities opening, right? So that created a lot of extra activity. We grew in many aspects from that standpoint. So what does that mean for finance? And maybe before I get into that, my name, Patrick Gierman, CFO. I joined Envipco, what is it, about 6-plus months ago beginning of the year. About 25 years' experience in finance. Most of my time international experience at production companies, service organizations, always highly innovative products, which I enjoy. And great to be here. I would say that the past 6, 7 months have been very insightful, learned a lot and great to work with the team here. But one of the key things for me is -- right, is how do we get finance ready for the next phase. A lot of growth we see, a lot of growth that needs to happen. So how do we bring that foundation in place? How do we strengthen that? And how do we move forward? A few things here, right? And for me, being a finance person, what I said, a lot of activity in the organization in the end comes down to finance, right? Everything we do has, at some point, a financial impact. So we need to -- right, we will be looking strongly at our process, how do we further standardize and harmonize across our production platform, service organizations and how do we help the teams over there. How do we think about our ERP platform. As I said, a lot of different systems. So we already started the project some time ago to start harmonizing that. How do we create that consistency? How do we drive visibility across the organization, right? And how do we help control and manage our performance? And then the third element, really the people, right? So a lot of growth, it's hard to recruit. So how do we get the next phase for the finance team? How do we reposition? What do we do central? What do we do decentral, right? So -- and how can we kind of empower the team to really to help the rest of the organization, right? So take out the manual work and how can we really business partner with the rest of the organization. That's going to be key if you want to manage the growth ahead of us. On the right side, a little bit of an area of some of the team, how we think about structure. We'll not go into a lot of detail, but I think for me key is what do we -- what can we do central and what do we need to have local available. Then, if you think about further financials, and I already got some questions during the break, right, what is impacting our revenue, right? It's not simple. We sell a machine. The market owns up. We sell 5,000, 10,000 machines. It's a combination, right? So timing is critical for us also from a planning standpoint. We see that markets sometimes open a little bit later, a little bit sooner. So timing is very critical when the DRS system goes live. Difference between soft and hard launches, right? So it depends on how do we phase in. So that's really market driven. We can think about customers. How do you think -- customers think about their solution. Fons spoke about how can we help the customer, right? Some want to have a sale with a service contract. Others want to have a throughput contract, right, or maybe leasing, right? They all have their own dynamics. And it means that even if a system goes live, you might not have immediately all the revenue right off the full machine sales in your pocket, it might come in over time. Though recurring revenue is not bad either, but it definitely changes a bit the profile. And for sure, we got competition, right? We target a 30% market share. From my stand, I'd like to see more, but -- right, but if you get that, right, but competition is in play, right? It's -- we have seen the outlook. It's a huge market, right, and very interesting. So we will need to work through our share there. But what do we control? Gross margins, already one of the key targets for Envipco over the last years. How do we improve it, right? How do we get to that 40%? There's a lot of elements, right, that we control. I think about production, right? Productivity, how do we scale, right? We got a new factory in Romania. How can we help that to scale up, drive productivity, be efficient, right, so that, that will drive -- that will really improve our volume. Together with our supply chain team, how do we get our kind of benefits over there, be efficient, work with the vendors. Technology, right? Andrew already mentioned, continuous improvement, getting new products out, how can we make products cheaper, right? So that's going to be a critical element as well to continue to focus on this and to get better. And fourth, definitely our installed base, right? How can we get better on our service organization, drive there, right? For sure, you will not have immediately service -- all of the service revenue after installation, right? But how can we over the 5, 7, 10 plus years of service revenue, right, plus renewals, how we can get in place. So that's going to be key drivers for us if you think about gross margin improvements. Another thing that we can control, but where we already spent quite something on is on our operating expenses, right? We heard we need to invest a lot upfront. Markets come up, right? There's a lot of free work, right? Think about Poland and Portugal, we need to invest a lot, about 8% to 10% of our OpEx goes into these new markets, right? So there are expenses without corresponding revenue. Revenue and income will come later, right? You can see that a lot of the investment goes into our employee base. Think about fixed TAM, but that's going to be today, but also going forward and big investment, right? For sure, production and the teams have been set up now, so we can use that scale. For services, there might be more to come. But that's a big driver for us on the operational side. But this is something we can control, right? So this is going to be very key for us for the foundation that we already built, but how are we further building on, on that and to get better also from a finance standpoint. And really what is key is, right, the moment we have this foundation, we really can leverage that going forward, right? So that leverage and using that foundation is going to help us further grow and stabilize. Going then to kind of summarizing a little bit at P&L side, right? So if you think about profitability, EBITDA target, I think, Mikael mentioned it, Simon as well, 20-plus percent in the future. How do we get there? For sure, revenue is going to be a huge lever, right, to getting the markets open up, being there, able to sell, support our customers, right, to get the machines in place. That's going to be, for sure, a hell of a driver. Combined with what I mentioned, how do we improve our gross profit, right? Find those levers, supply chain improvements, do that continuously, right, get better working on our installed base. That's going to be an important factor. And then for sure, our OpEx, where teams already invested a lot. So we get really to the point, right, that we can really start capitalizing on those investments on that structure. For sure, still some things to improve, right, what I said, especially on the finance side and other elements to get better, to get stronger, but that's going to be really our baseline for the growth going forward. Then, if we move over to cash and working capital, definitely, for us, a very important aspect, something we closely monitor on a, I would say, daily basis. Given the markets and where we are, right, there's a lot of investment in working capital, right? We want to be ready for the market, having the product ready, working closely with the production teams, but timing is critical. So we can see that markets can be starting a little bit later. So how do we manage it? So that's where our working capital is closely monitored, and we will continue to do that going forward. It's really to make sure how do we balance that delivery capacity with the demand, right, when the demand comes are we ready, how do we work with our vendors, how do we make sure that we're not missing the ball there, right? So both inventory and our vendors is a critical element. Collection side, for sure. Customers, I think we've got a very strong customer base. For sure, we're partly dependent on the solutions and the possibilities we have with our customers conceptually. The good thing is credit risk is fairly limited for us. We have a strong customer base. So the focus is heavily there on the working capital, right? So that's an important piece for us. What did we do for sure, right? And many have seen in the press release. Also, to support the working capital, we got into a new finance arrangement with ABN AMRO recently, right, to support us really on the working capital and get that flexibility in place to balance between getting ready for the market and when the market opens up. Another area for investments besides OpEx, what I said, is our capital expenditures. About 8% of our revenue on average over the last few years, expect to kind of slowly continue with that. I would say key elements in there is really our -- one side is a technology with Andrew, right, the new technology that we developed that's part of our investments. For sure, we had our production facilities in the past, right, where a lot of our investments went into as well. And the third base is really the -- those machines that we lease or via throughput, right, that are installed at customer sites. So the RVMs at customer locations in different countries is also part of our CapEx that we need to take care of. The thing is, right, a lot of these things will also not always immediately generate revenue. Think about technology, it can be longer development before this starts paying off. So we have a mix a little bit in there on how that plays out. Then we get to -- the final item is more overall on our capital strategy. As I said, we have different funding requirements, definitely driven by the growth, market expansions, right? There's a lot of medium-term opportunities, right? And for sure, the different contractual -- think about leasing throughput contract situation, right, where we need funding for. Now what I said, ABN has been great in helping us over the last few months getting new facility in place. Instrumental, it gives us a lot of flexibility, both short term and also the medium term. So great to have them on board. For sure, we're listed as well. And then in addition, right, we will always, depending on the needs in the future, probably optimizing how we look further at our needs. But right now, I think we are in a good place to be. With that, I hand it over to Simon.

Okay. Patrick, thanks very much, very good. So I've got a -- I've just got a few summary slides now, and then, we'll go into Q&A. By the way, there is -- for those online, there is a chat option, so please do submit your questions on chat, and we can get to those in the room and also those from people online. Great. Well, hopefully, these few hours have given you an opportunity for us to do a bit of a deeper dive into Envipco. In summary, unprecedented market opportunity, 50 years for 100,000 units installed to support the existing deposit return schemes, 200,000 units and the systems and services around those needed to support the deposit return schemes coming up. Of those -- for those 200,000, 80,000 in the next few years of 4 markets, U.K., Spain, Poland and Portugal, which we are very actively pursuing. Hopefully, these last couple of hours have given some insight into both the excitement we have about this market opportunity, but also some proof points that we've managed to pivot now and build on our very good position in North America with positions now in Europe. So we've been able to capture that strong #2 position. And we've also used some of the technology that Andrew has talked about to enter brownfield markets. That's not our focus. Our focus is these new greenfield opportunities coming up, but brownfield, helping existing deposit return schemes achieve their 90%, or over 90%, is still a really great opportunity for us and particularly with the very small product we have, Compact, and a very large product we have in Quantum, we've got really the technology footprint to make a difference in those existing markets. And we've made investments. We've been very busy in the last few years. We've had great success in the market, but also, we've made the foundation investments already. They've been done. We have now these 4 operating facilities. We have a strong organization, including a fully formed management team. We have proof points and systems that we can use in new markets. We don't have to learn this stuff again. We are improving continuously. We have to do that, we know that. But we've now had scale, expansion into some of these new European markets. We're ready for the next one, we're ready for the next one, and that's important. And really, as we go through, and as we increase our installed base, it's important to note that recurring revenue will increase. So we talked quite a lot about service. Customers know they need to service our machines. As you can imagine, they're used by everyone. They use sometimes very significantly 1 million containers a month, okay? There is beer. There is Coca-Cola. There is Pepsi. There's Real fruit juices, okay? It's stuck in a metal box of 40 degrees C, somewhere in Athens, it will get sticky, and it will get mucky. So people know they need to service these products. And so if we have a 6x increase in installed base, then there's maybe a 5x to 7x increase in recurring revenue. So as we go through this next period of growth, as our installed base increases, that recurring revenue increases in addition to additional units coming from these new markets, so very exciting indeed. That's our final slides. Thank you for your attention. Thank you for your interest. And now, we're going to rearrange the furniture a little bit, and then, we're going to open up for Q&A. And we have a couple of excellent moderators in, Markus and also Fabian, to help us. So I think, Mikael, we're ready to go.

Okay. Thank you. So if I can invite the presenters to come up, so very good. So we don't look like an aging boy band. We're going to get some chairs, I think.

All right. We'll let the audience also ask some questions. So feel free to raise your hand. I'll just kick it off here. You're targeting plus 30% market share, Tomra is targeting 50%, that leaves very little share for other smaller competitors. Do you see any changes in strategy in new markets now, where smaller competitors are doing some, let's say, discounting on machine sales to grab market share? We know you need an installed -- a dense installed base to have profitable aftermarket. Any changes to the strategy you see there?

Yes, I think, especially in the larger markets, you see more newcomers to the markets. And I think if you look at the main retailers, they tend to choose still the main suppliers of RVMs, which have been around for quite some years. I think we follow the new competition very closely to see what they're doing. Hence, the acquisition of Sensi, which is now our Compact. So I think we also look at it from an opportunity point of view.

Yes. And looking at your margin target there of more than 20% EBITDA margin, maybe you can elaborate a bit on how that will phase? And what gives you confidence as these markets mature? As a #2 player, 30% market share, what gives you confidence in that long-term scalability and profitability of your business?

Patrick.

Yes. I think it's what I mentioned, right. It's -- for sure, it will not be there at day 1. It will phase out. It will be a phased approach, right? But if you really look at our production facility, right, that we already set up with the volume, the skill, that's really going to be driving a lot of productivity and improvement, right, continuous improvement. We're going to capitalize on the installed base. It's going to be a significant driver that we set with recurring revenue, spare parts, service revenue, right? And that's going to be kind of a baseline also going forward together with kind of stabilizing our OpEx portfolio, that's going to also improve the EBITDA margins.

Just a follow-up. Is there a necessary level of market share that you think you need to achieve to be profitable? Or could it be reached with 10% in some markets and 50% in others?

I think you can say, it largely depends on the size of the market to have a good dispersion of products. A larger market naturally can give you a larger volume and you can leverage on your service organization to a larger extent. We have an average defined 30% as a market on an average market that gives us that necessary scale. So I think that's overall a good target.

Yes. I'll just repeat that. So the question is whether Envipco is lowballing its market share target and if there's upside to it?

Yes, maybe I can answer that. So I think -- first of all, we think it's real, so -- and by the way, and I remind the whole team about this, there is an important plus in the target. So it's 30% plus, and we shouldn't forget that. So look, there's going to be opportunities. I think in some markets, we do better than 30%, okay? I think there's going to be other markets, it's going to be tough. It's going to be really tough because of different reasons. So I think -- to the point that was made earlier, I think 30% plus at that scale gives us really good operational density, gives us really good volume, both on products and also on services to have a really good, sustainable business model. Now, as Fons keeps telling me, you don't put 30% in my targets, okay? We have much higher than that. We -- effectively, we go -- for every big customer in every market we choose to go into, they're our potential customer. But we know we're realistic. We're not going to win everything. We'd like to. In Malta, we did. But we think that's a fair and that's a good sustainable target, which is why we've maintained that in this kind of next growth phase of the business.

[indiscernible].

Yes. Fons, you want to take it. Oh, yes. Yes.

Yes. So the question is on Turkey. That's it.

Yes, I can take Turkey. So Turkey, as I explained, every market is different, and Turkey is the example. They approach the DRS from a totally new angle. So I think with our experienced team, we spent quite some time on Turkey trying to leverage with all the stakeholders, bringing our expertise. But -- I mean, they do things they want to do. So we just follow the flow. We are actively engaged with a local partner because we believe Turkey is a typical market where we need a local partner who knows how things roll in Turkey. So I think we found a very good combination. So we are going to be more active in the coming period. And then, we'll just have to see how it develops. Like you said, it's a huge market, 80 million people, large, geographically spread. But, again, the approach is so different that we have to be flexible, adapt to how they approach it and then just support them with our knowledge and mainly technology because that's going to be a key driver there. And then, because it's such a big market, it's important to be aligned also with the operations in our organization to be ready to supply a large number of machines because it could take a long time, but it could also go really rapidly all of a sudden. So that's the challenging part in Turkey that makes it really interesting.

Sorry, there was a second part, Markus. I think second part, as you would say, Markus, what about California? So California -- and by the way, for those here in Oslo, Bob will make himself available at the end and during the break. But in summary, California is a deposit state at the moment. I think everyone knows that 1 of the 10 states is California. Obviously, on paper, a huge potential, huge potential. But it's a dysfunctional system at the moment. So everyone who goes to California, if you go there, you pay your deposit, but good luck getting the deposit back, really very difficult. So huge retained deposits becoming a political issue. It's a back to depo model. So versus back to retail, it's back to depo model. However, we see some movement that this is -- people are starting to think about the scheme and trying to think the ways to move it from a dysfunctional to a functional system. It's slow. But we hopefully, certainly in the medium term, hopefully, see some movement. And it's interesting that during this period, we have introduced the Quantum product. That is potentially a fantastic depo product, high volume, outside by design. It's working really well in upstate New York. So we think there's going to be opportunities for Quantum in California. Now, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. It's going to be a slow grind there. But certainly, we'd like to present that technology to the California industry and work with them to try and fix their system.

From a technology standpoint, they're currently working on a depo system, as was stated. It's a manned depo system. So there's a person standing there taking the material back. And so the case for Quantum just makes sense. It's automation. You can leave it, no attendant necessary. People can bring their containers, get the money, really dramatically lowering the costs for the operators in California. So there's a lot of interest right now in that machine coming from California.

Thomas, SpareBank Markets or SpareBank 1 Markets actually now. I was just wondering in terms of the EBITDA margin target of 20%, is that assuming kind of the mix you have today between direct sales, leases, throughput models, et cetera? Or is it based on kind of 100% direct sales? Or how should we interpret it? Is it because now you're 8% CapEx to sales, meaning should we expect kind of a long-term EBIT margin of 12%?

Yes. Patrick, do you want to take it?

No, it's indeed based on mix, right? So it's not only sales, it's indeed the combination with lease, throughput, but also straight out sales with and without service. So yes, that's based on the combination. So yes, and it's like the 20-plus percent is achievable with that.

But CapEx, to maintain at that 8% level, is that correct? Or should we assume it to come a bit down?

Okay. Definitely, right? The moment we grow, the CapEx ratio will go down, right? So there's definitely no -- definitely recently, but also with the production facilities and those things, we invested a lot in that as well. So logically, that will not necessarily repeat every year or every 5 years. But yes, definitely with the topline growth and the improvement that will definitely go down as a percentage.

And one question on maybe the U.K. and Spain. They are huge markets, and of course, very uncertainty on timeline, as you have said, where it's a couple of years ahead. But would you expect those 2 markets to be -- sales there before the official launch kind of through 2026 to...

Yes, definitely, especially U.K. because it's a large-sized country. I think also the retailers, since they have been involved in the Scottish preparation, they are advanced versus other retailers in other markets, which have not had that experience. So they understand much better what it takes to be prepared, not only from a technology point of view, but also their own organization because they need to arrange all the logistics and they need to train the staff and everything. So I think especially in the U.K., I think we expect to see 1 year in advance of go live date, already some real commercial activity. Spain, we have to see. They have to, in that sense, catch up to the U.K. So we are working with all the retailers to explain them what to expect, et cetera. So I think, especially after the DMO will be appointed early next year, then it will go much faster after that. But also there, like I said, 40 million people, so smaller than U.K., but much more containers to be collected. So I think in that sense, it's going to be the same size of opportunity. And basically, also, they're going to need the same timing to get prepared.

I think maybe just to build on that, Fons. Certainly, what we get from the U.K. DMO is they are really committed to this October 2027 deadline. So that's the DMO, it's the beverage industry, it's all the retailers. So a couple of the team talked about hard and soft launches. We've seen recently more soft launches because really politically, don't want to change the date in the law, but want to give people 4 months, 6 months to get ready, kind of the U.K. government, and I think you could argue, the industry have said, well, you've had that. You've had those years when we were doing Scotland, when we were thinking about this, the minister in 2018 talked about deposit schemes in the U.K. So we feel that the U.K. is going to be kind of more of a hard launch, which means they are going to need, to Fons' point, really detailed commercial processes to select their vendors and then to allow them with this huge network that's needed to set everything up.

I'll follow up on Thomas' question there on the margin. Of course, this is a midterm, long-term EBITDA margin target of plus 20%. But, of course, your business model or your business activities changes depending on the markets and how many markets go live and so on. And if I use the case study of Tomra from the early 2000s, when Germany went live, they've invested heavily in their OpEx base as you have. OpEx is up plus 30% in '23, '24, seems to stabilize more now. Sales doubled. EBIT margins went from 13% to 23%. It seems that machine rollouts are not tied with a lot of incremental OpEx. So in this phase now, when we're going towards 2027 and your mix will be heavily tilted towards machine sales, is there upside to that margin target? Should we expect an extraordinary high margin in the coming years?

It says plus 20%.

Fair enough.

Okay. So then looking a bit back to Poland, obviously, it's being pushed out a bit. Can you elaborate a bit on how the market has turned out compared to how you expected? And are there still some major retailers that are undecided? Obviously, we have seen some announced orders for several vendors. Or are there still some retailers that are undecided? Or is it more about the long tail for Envipco, where you've typically been strong in Poland?

Yes, thank you. I can take that. So indeed, like I explained, the complexity in Poland makes timing more difficult to plan at this moment. I think when we are a couple of months down the road from now, we will be more clear. I think if you look at the total landscape of the opportunity, I think there's around maybe 5% of the total opportunity, which has now been signed off on with retailers. It means that the majority of the long tail included then is still available. So that's about 95% -- 90%, 95% of the opportunity still there. I think they are still -- the 2 main Polish retailers with the majority of stores. Also, there's another one which has a lot of smaller stores. They have not decided yet how they want to approach DRS because their stores are basically exempt from the DRS system, but they also don't want to lose out on the customers. So they're looking for a good way to give that service to the customers, and we're talking to those guys, obviously, with our Compact machine. So timing, it's -- I think, it will be shifting more towards the 2026, but really the first half of 2026.

[indiscernible]

Yes. So the question is what type of market suits Envipco? And what will determine your market share?

Yes, I can get a go at it.

Yes. Go on. I will chip in.

Yes. So it really depends on the -- I think, on the market size and which players are around. I think if you take again Poland, large market, a lot of entrepreneurial companies around. So you see quite some new start-ups in the market. And so they come with new inventions. Kind of mostly in the lower price range of machines they try to enter the market because they see the opportunity. I think because of that, I mean, we keep a very close eye on them. We respond to them. So I think we will still be able to reach then around 30% market share. But it's a bit more unsure. If you look at other markets where we don't see that amount of new competition coming up, it's -- the playing field is more clear. So there, we can ease -- more easy achieve a higher market share than 30%. And then there's markets like Malta or Hungary, for instance, where the operator buys all the machines. If they choose 1 or 2, if you're in, it's large. If you're out, it's 0. So for the moment, I think the new markets don't tend to go that direction. So it's more retail-driven, so more retailers that invest in the machinery.

Maybe just to add to that, I think we've -- if we look at Romania, the study, the example that Fons said, we are -- we have some capability, and also, we have a desire to hit this tail. So it's not a matter of saying, right, we've got 3 or 4 big retailers, great, we'll sell out 3,000 units, right? We're done. We're going home. We are happy to stay in that market and really work through that tail. And I think the example of Romania is really good, where we've done that. And of course, typically, smaller retailers need the product quick. So especially in Romania, if somebody phones up on a kind of Monday morning, "Hey, I used to take containers back manually, it's driving me crazy. I need a machine". No problem. We can deliver one, get it working. You need a machine Monday morning, you'll be recycling by Friday afternoon, wherever you are in the country. And that's really powerful. And typically, people are prepared to pay for that, simple, quick. So typically, the price and margins on those sort of deals are slightly better. So I think we're flexible enough to adapt to everything, but certainly, where you have that broad market, then we see some strengths of our organization to be able to penetrate that. Good question.

[indiscernible]

So the question is about the Quantum-S and the price point compared with the normal units. And technically, how did you manage to get it smaller?

Okay. Maybe, Andrew, you want to take shrinking it into a box? And I'll take the price.

I'll take the technology side. Yes, for sure. So Quantum-S, yes, reducing the footprint of Quantum without reducing the performance, essentially we're taking away from storage. So there's huge storage capacity designed in Quantum. It's originally designed to be able to be serviced by truck pickup. And not all operations want to do truck pickup, some want to do bags and pull out and store the bags in a shed out back, that sort of thing. So reducing the storage is an easy solution to reduce the size and actually have a better fit with what the customer needs. So it's kind of a win-win. On the pricing side, I'll hand that on to you.

Yes. I think pricing, it's not really a pricing play this. This is more an opportunity. So customers -- typically, these situations, customers really want Quantum and are prepared to pay for the higher price point of the Quantum, but they just can't fit it in for some reason or another. So offering Quantum-S gives them that opportunity to put in a Quantum in the space that they have available.

Okay. Your gross margins are trending upwards, but obviously, fluctuates with volumes we've seen over the recent quarters. You're almost at your target level now. But you still maintain your target of around 40%, not above or plus 40%. What does that imply in terms of pricing?

Do you want to take that, Patrick? And then maybe...

Yes, yes. So just to -- so you're highlighting the 40% margin target, right? And the question was, to what an extent that relates to pricing.

No. I mean gross margins vary with volumes. You're almost at your target already and volumes are going to increase drastically. Why do you maintain your margin target at 40%? And what does that imply in terms of pricing? If volumes go up and your margin should follow, that would imply that your pricing is going down.

Yes. I think pricing might be more on Fons' side. But for sure, the pricing does have an impact, right? The moment we get to the larger markets and competition, pricing is a factor that you need to consider, right? So if you go to large retailers, price points might be different than maybe smaller stores, right? So that definitely plays in. And I think Fons can maybe elaborate on that as well. So that plays, and for sure, on our end is then also finding the right countermeasures to improve on the other side, right? We need to cost control and cost manage our supply chain. So -- but yes, pricing does impact, especially when you get to the larger markets, the larger retailers. And what I mentioned earlier, right, competition. So that's -- there are more players in market.

Yes. I can just underline that it's exactly the story.

And sorry, maybe just to add. So again, we're not lowballing this, and we're not saying 40% and we stop. I think you're going to see some fluctuation because you've got -- we've got different dimensions, as also Patrick pointed out. We have volume. We have type of market. We have share of services, how that kind of feeds into -- how that feeds into our overall group P&L. So all of these things, we feel that a good solid 40% is a really good foundation for us to then make sustainable EBIT -- good EBITDA margins.

[indiscernible]

So the question is that your competitors are also investing in the areas that you are strong. How confident are you in maintaining that lead?

It's always a good sign to see the competition following you and innovating in the same spaces where you have the leadership position. So it's nice to see them coming after us in the bulk feed in the large and then also on the small side. But to maintain the competitive advantage, I think the most critical link is to stay close with our commercial partners and understand what drives that purchase intent, why do these customers want these products. Quantum-S is a great example of that. We heard we love the technology, we love the speed, but we need it smaller. We need to fit into 2 car park spaces. And so that drove that. And in terms of the core technology, we're also innovating on that front. And so there's -- while it's fun to watch them chase you, you also want to make sure that you're training to go faster. And so we're doing both sides in terms of that.

[indiscernible]

We're not limiting that to any, I think, part of the segments. It's going to be complementary in terms of that. To repeat the question, our M&A strategy. We are opportunistic in looking for technology that can be complementary throughout our product portfolio. As Sensi does offer technologies, where we believe we can incorporate some of that into our existing products, improving performance, potentially taking down costs over time. So that's kind of the approach we look at. There's no specific area that we're looking for.

[indiscernible].

So the question was, first, is there any active lobbying against the DRS schemes and introduction? And the second was -- what was that again?

Lease and revenue share.

Yes, lease and share going forward of lease revenue.

Okay. Can I take the first one? So I think the key thing is from an EU point of view, this packaging and packaging waste is a regulation. So where a directive needed secondary legislation to put it into -- to put it into force in a national context, the regulation, if you're in the EU, you need to follow all the regulations. So it's a very, very strong legislative push and mimicked to a certain extent for the EU -- for the U.K. deposit legislation. So I think the legislative framework is very strong. The second thing is I think you see a lot of the stakeholders, which may be traditionally were uncertain about deposit schemes, realizing that a well-run deposit return scheme is the most cost-effective way of achieving improved recovery targets for beverage containers and making sure they have a clean source of material coming back in that they can reuse in bottles, particularly in the beverage industry. So there's a lot of strong support. No doubt, there are some stakeholders where that's more difficult, maybe municipalities or so forth, and different countries are working ways to incorporate those stakeholders into the scheme, very much like they're doing in Portugal by involving or giving the option for municipalities to be involved in the scheme. So I think the drive to DRS and the involvement of lots of stakeholders, I think it's very positive. So certainly, clearly, it's legislative processes. So timing, as we've said, changes, but it's definitely not, is this going to happen, it's more when this is going to happen. And then maybe on the second point.

Yes. I mean, as we showed, I mean, our U.S. business has largely been built up over time through leasing. Our European customers tend to favor to purchase. So the leasing revenues we have is largely from our U.S. business. Our program services, roughly 1/3 or so of that program services revenue is from the North American business is -- comes from leasing.

And I'll just have another question on legislation and the risk there. Of course, there is a third DRS wave with France, Italy. They need to reach 80% by end of 2026. When do you expect the visibility on that in actions? And second part of that question is, if you don't see any more markets in Europe, what are your main priorities? Is it to go into Germany with -- into sort of brownfield investments? Or what other adjacent opportunities are you seeing beyond the markets that we can also clearly see?

Great. Maybe I'll start, and then, over to you for rest of the world. Yes, look, I think maybe reference to last answer, I mean, this is a regulation, right? This is a regulation. If you're in the EU, you need to achieve this target. Some countries, no doubt. You mentioned France who maybe -- you mentioned Italy, maybe get there in a slightly different way. Maybe the format of the scheme has higher components of maybe refillables, which we can also now with our broad product portfolio tackle. So we think it's going to get there. Now, we think it's going to -- is it going to be all countries achieving all the targets by 2029? Maybe not. There's going to be probably a -- there'll be a zone where different countries will be slightly different timing, but we think there's a very, very strong push there. And then we talked about the U.S. So if you look at markets outside of Europe, the U.S., we've talked about California, there's other markets on the Northeast, where we have probably refreshed deposit legislation. We saw good growth in Connecticut, New York and Massachusetts. If that also happens, they will see more growth, maybe new states. And then that's just the existing regions we're in, Europe and North America. And maybe Fons, that's not the whole world. Is it?

No. There's some other continents left, so basically, Asia. There, we see some activity starting now in Singapore and Hong Kong is doing some pilots. So I think they have not the kind of regulation that we have in Europe. So it will be a different type of approach. But we see interest growing in those markets also to go into a kind of DRS system. So we're following that, at the moment still kind of from a distance, but we are connected. So we need to stay close to it. And when it needed, like we showed, we started investing also in local resources there. Africa is another big continent, a lot of litter to be cleaned up. So the interest is mainly there. But, of course, the structure and the way countries are organized and the cost structure, makes it more difficult to set up a DRS system in the short term. But also there, it will definitely happen. South America is another region. We see more activity in some of the South American countries with some smaller countries starting with the DRS. So I think next to Europe, and even France and Italy, in a sense they have to do something, probably they'll wait as long as they can, but in the end, they have to do something. But then there's this South America and Africa and Asia, so really the southern hemisphere is really there.

So if I understand correctly, your pure-play RVM company, that's your strategy. You have seen peers of you sort of diversify, but you are a pure play into DRS.

Yes. Maybe I can add to that. Yes. We're a recycling technology business. Yes. I mean, at the moment, that is pure, pure, pure play beverage containers. Now, Andy would say, hey, Simon, what's in the box can recognize other stuff? What's in the box can compact other stuff? What's in the box when interacting with the public can take back other materials? So who knows, in the long term, maybe that's something that we think about. But right now, we see so many -- so much opportunities that hopefully we've presented and articulated this afternoon that this is what we're looking for. And if we broaden from that, it will always be around technology. We are not going to open recycling plants. That's not our gig. We have the skills, we have the focus to continue to be a technology business, and we see a massive, massive opportunity in beverage containers in the long term.

Thank you. And that concludes our Q&A session. Thanks for the questions, and thanks for the answers from the management team.

Brilliant. Okay, so once again, thank you very much, everyone. Thanks for everyone online, everyone to be here in Oslo. We -- those who are here in person, we invite you, we have some drinks, opportunity to network afterwards. Thanks very much. This has been, for us, a delight to host and run through our first Capital Markets Day. We look forward to, obviously, seeing you again wherever you are, and thanks very much.