Equifax Inc. (EFX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi, everybody. We'd like to welcome you to Equifax's first consumer webinar, "You Ask. Bev Answers." I'm your moderator and co-presenter, Ilyce Glink, and I'm here with Beverly Anderson, who is President of Global Consumer Solutions division of Equifax. Hey, Bev.

Hey, Ilyce. How are you?

I'm good, thank you. Are you ready to talk to everybody about credit and money?

I am. I'm very excited.

I know I am, too. We're excited to have such a terrific crowd, and glad you can join us. If you look at the bottom of the screen, you'll see a Q&A button, and you can type your questions to me and Bev in that box at the bottom of your screen. So we thought we'd start by introducing ourselves to you. Bev, you've had a long history of working in the financial services industry. And before we dive in, I thought you might just want to talk briefly about why you decided to go in this direction with your career. And why, just recently, you made the move to Equifax.

Thanks, Ilyce. And again, I just wanted to say hello to everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I hope we have a really good discussion and hope we can share some information and some tips and tools and things that will help you in this unprecedented time. And Ilyce, yes, I have been in the banking industry and credit and finance for 30 years, probably longer than I'm willing to count. And I've learned that I've got quite a passion for thinking about credit and helping people live their best financial life, which is one of the values of Equifax. The reason why I came here is really to do just that. And I think about the access to credit and how important that is in people's lives, and quite frankly, how important it was in my own life and my -- and the life of my family. And I always tell this really fun story about growing up in Paducah, Kentucky. And as kids, my brother, my sister and I would head down to the little local corner store called Driver (sic) [ Driver's Grocery ]. And our parents would send us there to pick up the everyday staples: bread, milk, cheese, eggs. And we get to the counter and we put everything down on the counter. And Mr. Driver's would grab a book and write all the items down. He wouldn't ask for cash. And he'd -- we'd grab our goods, and we'd be on our way. Little did I know at the time that, that was access to credit. And that access gave our family the things that we needed to survive. And when my parents were at payday, they would head on down to Driver's, and they would settle their account. And because of that access and many others, our family was able to live many of our dreams, and I'm humbled to be here today. So that's why credit is so important to me and why I'm passionate about it. So what about you, Ilyce? You've been talking about personal finance for a long time. Why do you do what you do?

Well, it's funny, I've actually had such an interesting and varied career. And if you'd asked me 20-odd years ago when I started my career as a financial journalist, if I'd ended up -- I would end up as the CEO of a financial wellness platform, I'm not sure I would have said yes to that. It seemed like a big stretch to go from freelance writing to technology. But in this crazy world, the whole thread that's held my career together, like yours, is this idea that I want to help people make better decisions with their money. And so I've done that in my syndicated column and the many books I've written, my radio talk show career. And it started for me back in, I just got to say, even high school or earlier than that when I would sit with my grandfather, who used to live with us 6 months of the year, and he would watch the stock market ticker on TV. And I had no idea what that was. And he patiently explained it. It was great one-on-one time, and it really made an impression on me that he had gone from very little to building a very nice amount of money to support his family. And I thought, well, if I could teach other people to do that and myself, that would be great. And so that's been kind of how I found myself with this really, really interesting career. So over the next hour, we're going to talk about what's been happening. Obviously, the COVID pandemic is just horrific and so damaging for so many people. And today, we saw new numbers again that just boosted our unemployment number. I mean the idea that we would ever be in a place in this country where in January, we had the lowest unemployment in history. And today, 22 million people are unemployed hardly over the last month, we want to talk about all that and we want to answer your questions about credit, paying bills and making ends meet. And of course, we've got some poll questions because we'd like to hear a little bit from you about where you are. And down at that Q&A button, you can, of course, leave your questions for us, and we're going to try to get to as many of those as we can. So to kick things off, we do have 2 poll questions. Here's the first one. Bev, do you want to read that for everybody?

Sure. Looking forward to everybody's answers. Please rate your financial situation before the COVID pandemic was declared on March 13, 2020. Were you financially stable, everything is good, life looks good? Somewhat financially stable, so a couple of issues here and there, but so far so good? Sort of rocky, maybe you could see that things are getting a little tight? Financially unstable? You're not sure? Or you prefer not to answer? So please give us your take.

And I think a lot of people thought they were sitting pretty before the whole world just sort of seemed to stop for the COVID virus. I mean we just -- it's just been kind of crazy in this historic, certainly, turnaround. Let's see what everybody has said. Right. So before this declared, so many people were feeling pretty good. Not everybody, clearly, but a lot of people.

Yes. And Ilyce, what's so interesting about this is, it's been the longest period of post-recession recovery in the history of the country. And I think people felt that income was plentiful. Some people were having issues making payments. 75% of Americans were living paycheck to paycheck. What's an interesting statistic is that 40% of people say that if they had an unexpected expense of $400 and more, they may actually have trouble covering it. So -- and this was pre the pandemic. So I'm sure people are feeling much more unsettled now.

Well, I think you're right, Bev. Let's see what -- just to get another sort of temperature of everybody, maybe that's not a good way to put it these days. But what was your current employment status at the start of 2020? Bev, do you want to read out the options?

Sure. So either you're self-employed or you own your own business. Many, many small business owners out there today trying to sort through what's going on. You had a side business where you earned income. I think about the gig economy as an answer there. Employed full time, part-time, you're a homemaker, a student, retiree. You were unemployed, looking for work or unemployed and not looking for work. Let's see what you have to say.

All right. The answer is most people online employed full-time but we also have some people who were self-employed and a few retirees, and it looks like just a very few number of people who are unemployed and looking for work. A little bit later, we're going to ask you if that's changed, so I imagine that the answer is yes for some people. So this is a really great opportunity, understanding kind of what our audience is doing but -- to talk about what's going on with the economy during the COVID pandemic. And it's such a scary time. I know we've talked about this sort of off-line that we both know people that are going through a job loss, a furlough, pay cuts. I've had former employees reach out to me asking if there's some work that I could give them. Did you see what was going on at San Antonio? I think it was at the beginning of this week or over the weekend?

I did, Ilyce, and it's so very sad and unsettling to see. So this image is from the San Antonio Food Bank, where there were miles and miles of cars, people coming to get food. It just reflects the uncertainty of the time that we're living in thanks to this virus. Approximately 10,000 people waited, 10,000 households waited in line to get food. The Food Bank expected about 6,000 people. They had sourced 1 million pounds of food, and that ran out. They had to go source more. So certainly, there's an anxiety, there's an uncertainty, there's pain that people are feeling as we enter into this uncertain time.

And of course, what happened here was the same as what happened in Los Angeles, it happened in Chicago. The Food Bank lines are just miles long. And if you take a look on Google, you'll see lots and lots of images of people just trying to figure out a way while they were waiting for their $1,200 payments, while they were waiting to see if they were going to get into the sba.gov programs, just finding a way to try and access cash and get everybody fed, and the whole thing is just so unfortunate when you look at it. And it comes from a very real place. When you look at how consumers are faring, as we just said, the new numbers today pushed the number of unemployed to almost, I think, it's like 23 million just in the last month, millions more furloughed. The Fed this afternoon came out and said that their work wasn't done. They announced a $2.3 trillion loan buyback, basically, program last week. So they'll buy anything, even junk bonds. So the economic destruction is just -- it's just huge. And I think that it's really been heartening to see how people are stepping up, and also for me as a person who's -- how many recessions have we watched, right? 9/11 and 2008, it's so very sad to see that this is even worse than what we went through just a few years ago.

It's certainly touching people's lives. I know so many people in the restaurant industry, people employed by travel, entertainment, so many sectors and so many people in those sectors who are experiencing job loss or furloughs at this time. But in order not to completely depress our audience, I'd just like to take a moment and give a shout-out to all of the many frontline workers who are showing up every single day, whether it's hospital workers and medical staff workers, doctors, technicians, nurses to aid their fellow citizens and help people out, or if it's workers, delivery workers, truck drivers, the postal workers, people who are keeping the economy moving and on the front line, putting their own lives at risk every single day. When I make my Sunday run to the grocery store, I just -- I'm so thankful for the checkout clerks and the folks behind the meat and fish counters, and I just wanted to give a shout-out to everybody who's keeping daily life moving for all of us.

And of course, all the medical personnel, the nurses and the doctors. And everybody who goes out and wears their masks, thank you very much because that helps anybody who has to work stay as safe as they possibly can. So I want to take a look and understand a little bit about what's happened with our audience over the last 4 weeks. So have you lost your job? Have you been laid off? Have you been furloughed? Have you taken a pay cut? What's happened to you? Take a look at the choices here. Bev, just run through those while we wait for the answers to pop up.

Sure. People have -- some people have been temporarily laid off, but they have a fairly good chance of getting back to work and -- where they are currently employed. Some are permanently laid off and will be doing a job search here pretty soon. Some still have a job, same salary. Some still have a job but have taken a pay cut.

All right. Well, let's see what it looks like for everybody. Well, so we've got some temporary laid off. Only 1% though is permanently laid off, so we hope that you find something soon. And the vast majority of our people are still there.

Sorry. Sorry about that, Ilyce. What's interesting is the still have a job but have taken a pay cut. That's a lever that we've seen businesses have to pull these days as they're thinking about ways to save expenses, keep people employed, keep the business moving. But certainly, they're -- everyone's tightening their belt.

Right. And one of the things that we're seeing is that with the institution of the Paycheck Protection Program out of the Small Business government, sba.gov, they're trying to keep people employed. And it will be interesting to see now that, that program's sort of maybe temporarily run out of money, what's going to happen with -- after that -- those 2 months -- that 2-month period expires. So Bev, let's talk about the CARES Act because that went into -- got passed just a couple of weeks ago, and it provides some, what I think could be transformative opportunities for Americans. I thought we'd run down the highlights of that for everybody as we're pushing through on some of the different options available to them. Do you want to take this one?

Absolutely. Thank you. It's been really heartening to see the government step up and provide programs and stimulus for people, for small businesses. Eventually, I think we'll see it for businesses as well. $350 billion for a Paycheck Protection Program. This provides an extra $600 a week of unemployment assistance. It extends state unemployment benefits. And it provides that stimulus that you've been hearing about of $1,200 per person. Of course, it's varied for salary levels, plus an additional stimulus for children. There's also a federal student loan program deferral for potentially up to 6 months. And even though that loan is being deferred, it will be reported as being on time -- being paid on time. So that's good news as well.

And I'd like to say that a lot of people have started to get their IRS checks for $1,200. We got ours, I don't know if you've gotten yours yet, but take a look in your -- if you've got direct deposits, those all supposedly went out this week. And check with irs.gov to find out where your next -- where your payment's coming or when it's coming. They're introducing a bunch of new tools that you'll be able to check on. I think this week, they go up. So irs.gov. What about credit, Bev, because there were some specific things highlighted in the CARES Act about how credit could be reported in nonpayment -- or forbearance could be reported? Let's go through that, maybe.

Yes. This is really important for our listeners because a lot of people are asking us questions about what happens if I'm not able to pay or what happens if I lose my job and I worry about making my payments. I think the CARES Act has done a nice job of getting lenders, creditors to think about this and provide some solutions for consumers. And the one important area is if you currently have an obligation and you know you're going to have some sort of issue or you need to modify a payment or ask for a forbearance, which means your payments pause for a while, you really need to get on the phone with your lender or your creditor. And if those modifications are made, then your obligation, as long as it's currently current, not late, not past due, that obligation will continue to be reported as current in your credit bureau. And a lot of people have been wondering what's going to happen to my credit? Well, if you are proactive and work with your lender, and figure out a way to make the necessary modifications, they certainly have the obligation here to make sure that your loans are reported as current. I do know that lenders are also taking the time to make changes and modifications to existing programs. They're looking at minimum pay dues, they are waiving fees, they are, in fact, thinking through forbearances. I think, Ilyce, you'll talk about mortgages and the opportunity there.

Right. So it's -- the mortgage -- mortgages are really interesting. So for loans that are backed -- federally backed, so that means that they were purchased by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac on the secondary loan market, they're insured by HUD, the Veterans Administration or USDA, or they were directly made to consumers by USDA, there's a prohibition on foreclosures for 60 days. There's 180 days of forbearance that's being offered, up to 90 days on federally backed multifamily buildings of up to 5 units. So for those of you who are real estate investors, that might help you as well. Freddie Mac does a lot of those loans. And there's a 120-day moratorium on eviction. So if your tenants aren't paying you, or if you are a renter and you're not paying, there is a moratorium for federally backed mortgages for those purchased by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. There are some other fallout that we'll see down the line, I think, in real estate, but for now, this is what the CARES Act is covering. So one of the things that we wanted to talk about also is how companies are trying to help consumers. And so Bev, let's start with credit card companies, we talked a little bit about mortgage lenders but what kind of help are you seeing out there for people?

Yes. Credit card companies are stepping up and really trying to find ways to support their customers. A couple of things that we're seeing out there across many of the banks and credit card issuers are things such as modifying the payments, waiving late fees. There have been some discussions about looking at interest rates. They are causing payments -- the minimum payments. All of these things are at your disposal, but you really need to get on the phone with your credit card company and just have a conversation about the things that they're offering. I'll also talk about the other side of your banking relationships as well, which may be your deposit relationship. And during this time, you may see them offer fee waivers or overdraft or account maintenance fees. So again, it would be very interesting to take a look at their website or give them a call and find out how they are handling these things in this time of uncertainty. But plenty of help and support out there.

I'll also just add on to that, that there are a lot of long waits for phone calls. So what you might be seeing also is when you call your credit card company, which I did the other day, to talk to them about just some questions, the wait was a couple of hours long. So go to the websites because all of these financial services companies now offer special COVID information pages. And they offer information and links to different parts of the company and things that you might be able to take care of online instead of having to wait for somebody to actually answer the phone or call you back because it literally could be days. So you definitely don't want to do that.

And I'll echo -- that's right. I'll echo that. And the mobile app is another place as well. You're right. Phone centers are, like many of us, is trying to dig out from people working from home and all kinds of issues that have been impacted because of the COVID virus. So their digital websites, mobile apps are really, really great resources for all of your banking and lending relationships.

So here's some good news. Companies that sell more than 82% of the auto insurance in America have announced that they're going to be refunding or crediting drivers more than $6.5 billion over the next few months. It turns out that when you don't drive, you don't actually get into an accident. And so the payments reflect the insurer savings or -- not all of it, don't get me wrong, but a piece of it, from far fewer than anticipated auto insurance claims because basically, nobody is on the road. So what's nice is that you're going to get a few bucks back. The actual number of auto accidents apparently dropped like 50% overnight. But you're not going to get back that much money. So think of this as just a little cashier pocket. You can probably expect anywhere from 10% to 25% or 30% of the premium that you would have paid from March to May, seems to be on the average. I just got back $40 from our coverage, our insurer, and that's for -- we have 3 cars, one that's a 16-year-old beater that our son drives; and a 10-year-old or an 8-year-old van; and my husband's sort of new hybrid car. So that just gives you a sense of where the money is. So it's a little bit of money, it's not a lot of money, but at least something else is coming back to you. Did you get anything, Bev, yet?

Not yet, but I'm still waiting.

Okay. Federal student loans, there's some help there as well. Bev, do you want to take this one?

Sure. One of the things that -- we spoke about it a little bit earlier, but certainly, one of the things that is happening is that if you have a federal student loan, not a private student loan, your loan payments will automatically stop from March 13 through September 30. And this is -- there's nothing you need to do, except to know that your loan payments will stop. But you can visit studentaid.gov for more details. This is, I think, a really, really important benefit for consumers and for students. We know that student debt has really soared over the last several years. It's going to be important for people to understand that this benefit is out there for them.

Right. And if you do go into forbearance, you do get an extra credit if you decide to keep making your payments. So what they'll do is, instead of some part of the payment be interest and some be principal, all of it will go to principal during this particular time. And you need -- if you're a federal student loan, you can go to studentaid.gov. If you have a private student loan, the rules are going to be different. So please contact your lender directly for that information because it will be different or it may be different from the federal student loan information. So Bev, Equifax has actually stepped up as well, and you've created not just sort of an information about COVID operations, but you actually created the COVID and Credit Financial Resource Center. So what have you got there for everybody?

Yes. We were hearing so many questions as people were calling us or coming to our website and digital properties, looking for information and answers. And we thought it would make sense to create a COVID + Credit Financial Resource Center. In this center -- and this is at equifax.com, so if you just go to our website, you can find it very easily. But in this center, you will find tips, tools, information. We've had thousands and thousands of logins of people really just navigating around and finding the answers to many of the things we've talked about here today. One of the things that we have seen a lot of traffic on are topics around unemployment, bankruptcy and anything dealing with how do I manage my credits during this time. There's also a way to navigate to myEquifax and create an account. And when you do that, you can sign up for, what we call, core credit, which gives you free access to your monthly credit score and your Equifax credit report. And so you can absolutely do that. One of the things I really love about the site is this box called Fact or Fiction, you can see that there in the middle and it's charcoal. And so as much as we all think we may know about this topic, it was helpful for me to do a few of those and find out that I could still -- I still have new things to learn all the time about this space. So there's a ton of resource material here. We will be updating the content all the time, so come back and have a look. This webinar will be posted tomorrow, so if there's something you missed or something that you want to hear, please feel free to come back and you get an opportunity to listen to it or send it to your friends, and there's just a ton of good information here about the impact of COVID and the -- and our ability to help.

Well, I know because I've been helping me with it, that there's just a really, really deep amount of resources and information there. And I hope everybody on the phone will listen and go try it out. So we've got another poll for you. One of the things that I know that Equifax is hearing that I'm hearing in my inbox as well at thinkglink.com, is that people are really worried about being able to make payments. So we wanted to put up this poll question to see if you're worried about being able to make these payments. And we want you to be able to check all. You don't have to just pick one. If it's all of them, pick all of them. If it's some -- Bev, do you want to read down the list, and we'll see what everybody is thinking?

Yes. These are typical payments that you might be thinking about these days. Your home, either mortgage or rental payment; your car, your lease; credit card debt; medical bills, some of us may have a personal loan; we've talked about student debt; second mortgage; and student loans. So let us see what you've got.

All right. Well, it feels like people are worried about a lot of different things. Credit card debt on top of the list, it's not surprising given the news the last couple of days of some of the major credit card companies are saying that they're seeing a significant amount of nonpayment, and they're also -- a lot of people asking for forbearance and a lot of people who are just thinking fewer charges. That's actually gone down. And what we -- I think, Bev, you said in one of our calls preparing for this that we were at an all-time high with regard to consumer credit just at the end of the year, right?

That's right. In the fourth quarter of 2019, consumer debt which includes credit cards, but also mortgages and personal loans was at $14 trillion. That was an all-time high. So we saw the debt come down quite dramatically after 2008 and the Great Recession. The number has slowly ticked its way up as we've been in this elongated period of economic recovery, low interest rates, affordable -- well, housing is not always as affordable anymore, but availability of housing, I guess, in certain places. And that debt has creeped back up. So I'm not surprised to see people a little bit concerned about some of their payments. And credit card, that's an interesting one, I think, again, making sure you understand what options are available to you at this time would be good.

Yes. It's super important. All right. Well, we want to spend the rest of the time getting to your questions and some of the questions that have been coming into the -- Equifax's customer care center. As you can imagine, when we put up information about the webinar earlier this week, Facebook kind of exploded and your customer care center exploded, people really just had so many questions. So really, this webinar couldn't come at a better time, I think. And it looks like a lot of people are really wondering about the same thing. And so I don't know if everybody can see all of the questions, probably not, that have come in. But we see that your questions are starting to come in. And of course, you can go to the Q&A box and leave your question there, too. And we're going to get to as many questions as we can, and we will -- we get a list of all the questions at the end. And so we'll try to do what we can to get answers to all of you -- or as many as we can.

So Bev, here's the first question. It looks like I'm going to miss some payments this month due to the COVID pandemic, how will this affect my credit? And how long will this negative information stay on my credit report?

Absolutely. I can imagine this is on many people's minds right now. And I'll say this over and over again because I think it's really important. You have to understand that there are ways to take advantage of some options and some offers that your lenders will have. The CARES Act gives us a way to make sure that your credit report stays healthy, especially if you get on top of these things. So the first thing you really want to do is work with your creditors and lenders if you think you might miss a payment. It would be great to get on top of that to communicate that to them and to work through that modification plan or forbearance. And then as we've said before, with the CARES Act, that as long as that obligation was current, it will stay reported as current on your credit report, and at least that won't be a reason to impact your credit or your credit score. Once you've agreed though to a revised plan, you've got to stick to it. So if you promise to make a payment by a certain date or a certain time, then please make that payment because if then you do miss your modified plan, then that does become a late payment or a missed payment. And that certainly could impact your credit scores. And then when things get on your report, they stay on a report for 7 years. So the goal is certainly to try to get in front of these things before they actually happen and figure out if you can make some arrangements and then rely on the CARES Act to help maintain a decent credit report and score. Ilyce, I don't know if you'd want to add anything else to that.

No, I think it's really important information. And I -- we've had about 3 or 4 questions that basically ask this exact same question. I will want to -- I do want to remind everybody, when you're sending in your questions, please don't put real personal information in them. Don't include your social security number, don't include your phone number, your e-mail address is enough. That's how Equifax will get back in touch with you if we aren't able to answer this in the call. So just please, no social security numbers. We just want to help people. All right. Next question, what are the best practices that I can take if we're going to see an economic slowdown, which seems like we are, especially when it comes to my credit standing? So what do you think, Bev?

Yes, let me spend a little time on this. There are 2 parts to this conversation. The first one is understand what your financial situation actually looks like. That means understand what your income looks like and all the various sources that you may have of your income and understand what your expenses look like. And if you don't have options on the income side, or if you know that given things that are happening to your job or your industry, your income may be challenged, then you really have to focus on what's going on the expense side. And we've talked about ways that if you've got debt obligations, we've talked about ways that you can think through that and work with your various creditors on that piece, you also may have to make some really tough choices about the way you spend and the expenses that you are currently managing. And this is the time of where we have to tighten our belts, buckle down. We've got a wonderful friend who loves online shopping, and we were just giggling the other day about how we may have to rein that in. So those are the kinds of tough decisions that you have to make. You have to ask for help and communicate. So that's back to go have a conversation. And it doesn't necessarily have to be your credit card bill or your mortgage, but how about your electricity? The things that really are important that you're going to need as we navigate through this time. And then the last thing I would say is it's so important to continue to make payments where you can, even if it's just the minimum amount that you're owed on -- that you owe on a bill, make that payment because that keeps you as current as you possibly can be and it keeps you from having unnecessary impacts on your credit report. Finally, I would say, access your report. Take a look at it. Know what it says. You can do that through equifax.com, sign up for myEquifax and get free credit reports and scores. You can go to annualcreditreport.com, which is another resource where you can get your free report. But there are ways to get access to make sure you're staying in tune with what's happening. And remember, we've got lots of resource and information, sorry, on COVID + Credit. So make sure you check that out as well. Sorry, Ilyce.

No. Thanks, but I'm sorry, Bev, I didn't mean to step on you. It's a little hard when we're all safe sheltering in our own homes, and we're not next to each other to do one of these things. I was just going to add because I've seen in the questions that there are a number of people who are saying things like, I know I'm going to be furloughed or I've just gotten that pay cut, and I need to think about what I do -- how do I make up that income? And how do I cut back on those expenses? And I'll just jump in here and say that best practices for when you're getting an income reduction is to immediately take every expense off the table. Just make a long list of everything you spend every month, even those things that you do every year, maybe buy -- pay for your auto insurance twice a year. So what you would do is take that payment and divide it by 6 for 6 months' worth, right, so you understand what you're paying every month on all your different bills, take everything off the table and start with food, shelter, probably your cellphone is incredibly important, Internet. So if you've got kids, they can still go to school these days, right? You're just building back into your budget only the most important things. It's like Bev said, shopping is sort of off the table except for food at this moment. Takeout is probably off the table. You really just want to get down to basics and conserve as much cash as you can, and then look for as many other ways to bring in revenue or resources or money as you can. And that's really all you can do to kind of hunker down and get through this, if you don't have enough savings. Let me jump to this next poll question that we have because I think it leads right into it from that last question, which is on a scale of 1 to 5, how concerned are you that the COVID pandemic might further impact you financially in the next 6 months? Because even when we start to open the country, Bev, and I'm sure you're reading the same news stories that I am, it's not like tomorrow, everything bounces back to January, right?

That's right. And I say to myself all the time, the first thing I'm going to do is go to a restaurant and not eat my own cooking ever again. And the fact is -- if my sister is on the phone, she understands that. But the fact is, we aren't going to get right back to life as we know it. And so this is going to take a while and no one knows exactly how it's all going to come back together. But we could all find ourselves being impacted by the length of time that it may take to get back to some sense of normalcy.

Yes. That's absolutely true. Well, let's see how -- what everybody thought. Oh, people are pretty concerned.

Well, yes.

Yes. Yes, we feel it, too. We both are -- feel the same, don't we?

Absolutely. I was going to tell a quick story. You were talking about that sort of that zero expense plan starting from the very bottom and understanding exactly what you need to pay. And I just -- I wanted to share with the audience that we've all been there. And I can remember this would have been 2005, I guess. So a while ago, I bought my first New York apartment. It was 850 square feet, but it's New York, so everybody understands that it was a little pricey and you add the maintenance and there you go. And I realized just a couple of months in that, wow, this was a bigger set of obligations than I really had planned for. And I literally had to sit down, and you could do it on a piece of paper, you could do it in a spreadsheet, it depends, and I had to step through every single thing I was spending to try to figure out how I was going to make it work because I knew I could, but I just had to sort it out. And it took some tough decisions on my part, it took some prioritization of those bills that we had just talked about and making sure that the right ones definitely got paid. It took a couple of phone calls and some adjustments that needed to be made. But over time, it worked out. And I think the message I would like to give people here is that over time, it really will work out. We'll figure it out.

I hear you, Bev. I -- same kind of a thing. Sam and I -- my husband Sam and I, we've been married a long time, but we've both been self-employed for our whole marriage. We were the first 2 self-employed people anybody had ever met. We paid our own health insurance, it was all about that. And what used to kill us is every January, when you had to make the estimated payment for the year, boy, I remember in the early years, us scrounging around, trying to figure out where that check was going to come from to go and pay the estimated taxes for the year. I was like, oh man, I hate January. But you're right. You get through it, right?

Yes. That's right.

So to your point, here's that next question, right?

Do we take the next question?

Yes. Do you want to take this one? Because I think it speaks to what we were just saying.

Absolutely. I'll just -- I'll reiterate a message that I hope people are hearing, and that is, please take control. This is your take control moment. And part of that is figuring out with a sense of clarity what you've got. Here's what I've got coming in, it's my income. Here's what I've got going out. And if I can adjust what's going out, that what I've got coming in is going to suffice, then great, and if what's going in is going to get compromised because of this crazy time, then I've got to make some adjustments on what's going out. And lean in on all of the resources on what's going out, and make sure that you've got a budget in your mind that you feel like you can manage alongside the help that is available to you through all the resources that we've just spoken about. The last thing I would say on this is, this topic is one of the most painful topics that human beings will acknowledge, this notion of managing credit, budgeting, worrying about their credit score, and so we sometimes have a tendency to stick our head in the sand. And this is the time not to do that. This is the time where you really have to take control.

Yes. It's a great point because why would you ever want to look something this ugly in the eye? I mean you think to yourself, I'm just going to not open that mail. I'm going to stick it in the drawer. I'm not going to open that bill. I'm just going to leave it there. But they come back the next month and the month after that, so I can tell you, it's better to face the music, call your lenders right now, everybody understands. So this is the time to pick up the phone, call your credit card companies and your bank and your lenders and just try to make it work, I think, is a good thing to do. So Bev, one of the questions that we're getting, we have it here and we've also -- I see it in the Q&A, how do you make this -- how do you come back, right? How do you come back from what could be a really bad moment in your financial life? And we saw this happen to millions of people in 2008, '09 and '10, and it was really until like 2013, 2014 that we started to find our footing again as a country, this one could be even worse. So what are some immediate steps, like sort of short term, medium term, long term?

Yes. It's a really great question. I think the short term is all of the things that we've been talking about today, which is manage -- do your very best to manage your budget, get on the phone with your lenders and creditors, make the adjustments that are available to you given this time and given all of the government actions that are taking place. Really think about where you should be spending versus what you can step away from even for a little bit of time. And then really think about what's required versus what might be a nice to have. I think people have to think about shelter, food, access to transportation as their key critical items that they want to try to manage and protect. And then everything else either has to be maybe discretionary, and it may take a little bit of time before you can pull those things back into your life.

Yes. I think that's great advice. And I think, again, short term, we -- I sort of said this earlier, short-term focus on where you can get access to cash, whether last resort 401(k), but anything that you can trade with people, part-time income. Can you do anything to bring more cash in? Medium term, make sure all of your expenses are in line and then just set yourself up for -- to succeed over the next year because you -- just want to reiterate, you will get through this. And my heart's breaking for some of the questions that are in the queue right now, and I know that we don't have -- we can't just bestow jobs and money on everybody. I sure wish we could, though. There's just -- there's so much pain that we can already see out there. So Bev, I wanted to get to a couple of these other questions. One of -- we've gotten several questions in the queue on how credit scores are calculated. And of course, we're not going to talk about credit scoring factors right now because that's just not really there. But I think we have something in the COVID and Credit Financial Resource Center on equifax.com, don't we?

We do. We actually have an article that talks about how your credit score is calculated. And it would be great for people to just go and take a look at some of those articles and some of those tips and tools. Credit scores are -- can be complicated. I wish I could sit here and say that it's super simple. We'll work on that. But in the meantime, there are -- there's a way for you to, again, go to equifax.com and to COVID + Credit, and take a look at that article around how the score is calculated. And can I also say that...

Right. I think that's great. Yes, go ahead.

Just going to say a couple -- just one quick thing. There are plenty of very personal questions in the Q&A, and thank you all for taking the time to send those to us. Whether you go on the website or give us a call at Equifax, certainly, if you've got personal issues, situations, we can help, and we'd like to help. Our call centers have some of the same issues that you might be experiencing with some of your other service providers. So our online tools are quite good and please feel free if you've got a personal situation to see if we can help in any way.

We have another question from somebody who said, if we're fortunate enough to be financially stable right now, should we be paying extra on our student loans? And as we answered earlier, yes, you get a double bonus because your interest won't be charged during this forbearance period. So everything that you pay will go towards the balance that you owe. And whether your interest rate is 4% or 8% or whatever interest rate it is, that's a great time for you to kind of get ahead on that. So anybody who has student loans, federal student loans, that might be a good thing to do. Bev, we have another question...

Good question.

Yes, it's really nice to be able to give somebody that kind of advice. So we have another question here about late payments that happened on any accounts that you have, will they be removed due to the coronavirus situation, especially if you've been furloughed from your job?

So the answer to that is most likely, but you should absolutely check the website of the service provider that has -- where that late payment is coming -- or a late fee or late payment is coming from. So -- and you might want to just make sure you reach out and acknowledge that it's late, so that your creditor can then ensure that they're treating you under the guidelines of the CARES Act, and they make sure that you are not going to be penalized on your credit report for that late payment.

All right. We have another question. Why are credit scores still decreasing during this pandemic? What if someone lost their job and cannot pay their creditors on time? Are you and the other 2 bureaus, I assume they mean Experian and TransUnion, will you take this into consideration? The one thing we don't need to lose is our perfect credit score. That's a lot to look back.

Congratulations. Yes, it is. And congratulations, if you've got a perfect credit score and know that, as we've talked about earlier, assuming that you've had a conversation with your creditor, and there is something that is happening on your -- with a particular obligation, then the creditor is responsible for making sure that your accounts stay current. If you don't have credit and your scores are going down, there could be any number of factors driving that and it's hard to know without actually looking at a particular individual credit and understanding what that report says. And so my suggestion would be that you would have a dialogue or make sure that you go online and indicate that you've got a question about your credit report or score and let one of the bureaus -- Equifax could certainly take a look and see if we can see what's going on. So that's probably a pretty particular question that would need some specific guidance from one of the bureaus.

Right. Again -- right. And again, you can always call the -- if you go to equifax.com, the number's right on the screen, and you can call in to the customer service people, and they will try to help you unpack that. We have another question, and I know we're going to start to run short of time in a moment, but this was a really good one, too, that came in a couple of minutes ago. How do you propose a payment plan with creditors if you can't afford to make your payment for the month?

Boy, that's a good one. So how would you propose a payment plan with creditors when you can't make your payment for a month -- for that month?

Right. So if you...

Well, I think you -- this is...

Go ahead.

I think you'd have to start with that, right? I think you have -- and especially in this time, I think you have to be very, very honest about your inability to make the payment. And so what creditors can do, and I don't want to promise, but what creditors can do is understand that you can make a future payment, and they can make a payment plan according to your ability to make those payments into the future. And then what you have to do is stick to that plan. So you've got to come up with an agreement with them about when you can make that payment. And then when that time comes, you've got to make that payment and then whatever future payment arrangements that you've made with that creditor. Ilyce, I don't know if you have another thought about that.

No. I think just being honest and open. Again, this is a time when creditors are really understanding. Credit card companies and lenders, they understand what's going on, I mean, you'd have to really have your head in the sand to not know what this kind of sort of shock layoff means. So this is a good time to call your creditors and talk to them about what you can and can't pay, and the -- most of these companies have processes in place. And so they'll do the forbearance for the forbearance period, and then they'll work with you afterwards because their goal is to get their loan repaid that they've extended to you or the credit they've extended, and your goal is, of course, to repay it. So everybody has the same goal in mind, which is really great. So Bev, we just have a couple of minutes left. Any last words that you want for -- you want to say to everybody as we wrap things up here. It's been a great hour, and it's gone really fast, I'm sorry to say. It's been nice being able to talk to you and answer some questions with everybody.

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Ilyce, for having this conversation. And thank you all out there who are still hanging in there and listening to the dialogue. And hopefully, you've heard something that can help you and will help you as you navigate this very, very uncertain time. I think that a couple of things I would leave behind are: one, this is the time to take control. This is the time for you to get actively involved in your credit and your finances and making sure that you navigate your way through this environment by being proactive. The second is you've got to communicate with your providers, your banker, your creditor. And you can do it online. You can give them a call and be a little bit patient as everybody is still sort of digging out. But the more you communicate with them, the more they have the opportunity to help you, and then there are things that the government has done that will make that better for you. The third thing is as best you can, continue to make whatever payments you can because that just protects your financial picture. And then fourth, I would say, stay positive because we will all get through this, and there will be a brighter day. And while we don't know when that is, there's certainly plenty of ways to help, and Equifax is really trying to do that. So you can come visit us on equifax.com. You can see us at COVID and Credit, and we will continue to host really good content so that we can help you in all the ways that we truly can. Ilyce, over to you.

Well, thanks, Bev, and thank you again to everybody for joining us today. So we're going to start a regular column called "You Ask. Bev Answers." Because clearly, there's a lot to answer here, and that will be up at equifax.com in the COVID and Credit Financial Resource Center. And we will also make this available, as Bev said, tomorrow, you'll be able to listen again to this and recommend it to all your friends. Obviously, it's free and available to everybody. And finally, I just want to invite you to follow Bev and myself. You can follow Bev at LinkedIn, and there's -- and you can follow Equifax at Linkedin, Twitter or Facebook. They've got a pretty active Facebook page. You can follow me on LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook as well or at my websites, thinkglink.com and bestmoneymoves.com. And we hope everybody stays safe and that you stay healthy and that your family and friends do as well. And we look forward to talking to you again soon. So thank you very much for joining us today.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Ilyce.

And you, Bev. It's been great. Brian, I'm going to turn this back to you.