ERAMET S.A. (ERA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Eramet's Lithium webinar this morning in which we will be showcasing our lithium technology, our recently commissioned Centenario business and our long-term strategy towards lithium as a company. I'm Geoff Streeton, Chief Development Officer of Eramet and member of the Executive Committee, and I look after the company's growth and development and also the company's commercial sales activity. In this presentation, I will be joined by Jean-Baptiste Hogard, Senior Vice President of Lithium; and Fabien Burdet, Chief Process Officer for Lithium. Remind you of the disclaimer around the material we're presenting today just in terms of forward-looking statements, et cetera. So we'd like to just begin with a quick view of what the focus of the presentation will be. Firstly, we'll start with the technology side, introducing Eramet's DLE technology and that we're now ramping up at Centenario, but also, we wish to highlight not just our DLE technology but our integrated technological capability in lithium brine from exploration right through to operations. And that's been something that we have spent over a decade developing and which we recognize is a very, very important part of a successful lithium brine daily development. Jean-Baptiste will then take you through the history and the performance of our Centenario asset, which we regard as a world-class asset with strong growth potential. We will go through the milestones from development and execution and where we see the ramp-up going both this year so far and into next year. And we'll talk about the challenges and the optionality of the asset going forward. And then finally, I will focus on our view of lithium, how we see the outlook, our growth options and what we view as the key levers for success in lithium. Before we hear from Fabien, we're just going to share with you a brief video introducing the Centenario asset. [Presentation]

So I hope that video has given you a brief introduction to what the asset looks like and feels like. And I'd now like to welcome Fabien Burdet up onto the stage to take you through our technology. Thank you very much, Fabien.

So the purpose of this first part is to demonstrate that, today, Eramet is establishing a leadership in the lithium extraction from brine. We'll talk about DLE but more than that. So first, during the development of the process, we were convinced that direct lithium extraction was a game changer. And now with the successful ramp-up of Centenario, we are demonstrating that directly the extraction is a game changer and more than that, that Eramet's DLE is a game changer. And in comparison with hard rock mining. Best example is the spodumene of Greenbushes or natural evaporation, with the best example is Atacama salar. Okay? Why this is a game changer? Because of high selective and high performance of lithium extraction. First, because of the recovery yield of the lithium, we are recovering more than 90% of the lithium that is contained in the brine. And you will see later a bit more than that. Also, a high selectivity, that is key to produce directly as a first step, a pre-purified and preconcentrated solution. For example, magnesium, that is really a problem in natural evaporation. To select the deposit is not any more a problem. We are rejecting more than 99% of the magnesium. Then, short lead time. This is a hydro plant, the early plant. And so we are talking about residence time of hours and not anymore of months in a pond and also a very low special footprint because also this is a hydro plant. Centenario is less than 50 hectares. And at Centenario with natural evaporation, would be more than 1,500 hectares, so really a game changer. Also a game changer is that you don't need to have favorable natural evaporation conditions. You can do lithium extraction where lithium is, for example, in Smackover, in Rhine Valley or in Altmark in Europe. So this is a unique story that started 15 years ago and thanks to continuous R&D and industrialization in lithium extraction and processes. Today, we have a strong team, 40 experts dedicated to lithium in the innovation center. We have pilot-scale equipment and 1 demonstration unit directly in Centenario, so in representative conditions. And so this team with this tool has already demonstrated that they are able to design full process flow sheet, including DLE but full process flow sheet from the brine to a final lithium product; demonstrate also that able to develop an industrial DLE sorbent, and we will talk more about that later; pilot and adjust all the selective processes to have the right recovery and right purity of the product; and also test and rank technology, so technology watch, to be sure that we are using the best available technology in Centenario and also in our future plan. And today, also this story is really the R&D is connected with the industrial life of the plant with the strong support of the operational startup. And Jean-Baptiste will talk more in detail about that. So the sorbent, really at the heart of our process. And so today, we are demonstrated in Centenario in industrial condition that our sorbent is highly efficient. And also in terms of independence, it is proprietary and produced in Europe. That is quite key also today. So the sorbent, sorry, a bit of technology. So this is an aluminum-based sorbent, and what is important with this family of sorbent, it has the magical property to be regenerated with water only, no reagent, so a lot of saving in terms of reagent and cost and footprint also for CO2 in Scope 3. So this sorbent, we have the full control of it, fully industrial, exclusive production in Europe. And you see the performance on the right of the screen. So in all the dimension, you see that the dark blue curve is ranking first position. So this is Eramet's sorbent. It's first position ranking in all lithium selectivity, as I said, rejection of made all the impurity. Water consumption, that is key where the -- in an environment when the water is scarce. Reagent consumption, the magic property with water regeneration. Okay? And after, really a game changer in terms of lithium extraction capacity. What is that? It's the size of the lithium reservoir inside the structure of the sorbent, and also the lithium production rate, that is the ability to fill high speed this reservoir and to produce then the lithium chloride high speed. So property very important to have a compact facility. Today, the performance of the sorbent inside Centenario plant is demonstrated, DLE recovery yield design, 90% reality; industrial reality, more than 95%. So we will have optimized the lifetime of the deposit and the usage of the lithium of the deposits. As I said, ideally selectivity with 99% for rejection of magnesium, for example, but also calcium, potassium, all the classical impurities and also the famous lithium production rate that is totally in line with the design, so with the compact units of the DLE. DLE is a must, but it's not enough. You need to master all the elements, starting by the deposits, pumping the right quantity, quality of brine, managing the depleting brine out of the DLE today with a natural lagoon and tomorrow with the reinjection that is under a strong study directly on site. And then you need to master the other blocks of the process. We are talking about concentration to enhance the lithium concentration but also to recover the water. Okay? We are using different technology to recover the water and have a minimum water footprint and then removing all the impurity because we are talking about high-quality products and removing all the impurities, doing the precipitation, centrifugation, drying, packaging of the lithium carbonate, high-grade, directly salable. So to wrap up everything, today, we are establishing the leadership in the lithium extraction from brine not only on DLE but mastering all the elements, resource development with a team dedicated to have an extensive knowledge of the brine deposits and including Day 1 the ESG, the CSR in all the work. Full process ability, so full ownership of the high-performance DLE, but not only, also being able to do the integration of all the different process units. And now Jean-Baptiste will demonstrate that we're also mastering the ramp-up of our plant.

Good morning, everyone, so very happy to be with you today. So Fabien has -- we wanted to start with the technology and process side because we think that's really the cornerstone, and we're convinced now it's the cornerstone to have a successful DLE plant that is highly efficient in terms of cost and sustainability. So now I'm going to cover with you the other aspects of the projects, which are from derisking, construction start-up and the ramp-up where we are today. In terms of giving you some context of the assets, so we're talking about the salar of Centenario, Ratones. So it's a unique salar in the sense that it's fully consolidated. So Eramet has the full ownership of the salar unlike many other salar. It's a very big salar, so it's more than 67,000 hectares, so 50 kilometers north to south. And it's a lot of lithium resources. In terms of resources is one of the best salars we have in the lithium triangle with 15 million tonnes of resources. Over -- very specific on this salar, it's very desertic. So on the salar itself, on the 700 square kilometer, we only have 7 families, so 9 inhabitants. So we don't compete there for water or take water directly from the -- we take from the ground. It's surface water. And we don't compete for space. And the closest village, which is in another catchment, is 74 kilometers away, the village of Santa Rosa de los Pastos Grandes. So that's for the salar. In terms of the plant, so it's a 24,000 tonnes lithium carbonate plant. Lithium carbonate is gaining a lot of traction together with LFP, and it's now more than 50% of the world demand, and that's growing. It's 100% owned by Eramet. So we've acquired back the assets in October last year from our former partner, Tsingshan. It's also fully invested. It's -- the plant has been designed to produce battery grade as shared by Fabien. And the last thing is I'll cover that, it's in ramp-up since July, so for now 5 months. Health and safety. So the approach of Eramet is to go to 0 harm. So we have very specific challenges given the location of the site: altitude 1of close to 4,000 meters, its remoteness, 320 kilometers from Salta and the right chemical and water treatment nature of these operations. So in terms of health, the way we manage hypoxia risk and the risk of remoteness in case of a health issue is we get upfront medical check. We get the highest standard that we can get in a remote medicine. We have a clinic on site. And we get an emergency evacuation procedure when we need that. That's the last barrier. Process safety-wise, so it's about chemical management, steam and gas. So here, we've done risk study during the engineering phase, but we've redone a full risk study as well before the ramp-up. So we've done that in H1 2025. We get a dedicated organization. And here is the last barrier. We have a team, a fire brigade at site at the entrance of our site in Centenario. And then the last 2 very peculiar challenge we need to manage: the road safety, half of the road is unpaved, 4,000 meter high down to Salta; and the contractor management, so we are working with local contractor mainly in a province that used to be agricultural province, and that has been transitioning to industry and mining over the last few years. So here, there's a bit of work to elevate the safety practices of our contractors. So as a result, in the construction phase, the intense phase 2023 and 2024, we've managed to be significantly below the average construction in Argentina for the frequency rate. And now that we are in operation, we need to continue working to reach the 0 harm target that we have as a group. So the development phase. There have been 10 years between the discovery of Centenario by Eramet in 2012 and the start of construction in April 2022. So during these 10 years, it was all about derisking the project on 3 fronts. So the first one is on the social acceptance. So from Day 1 and that's the way our geology team is working. There was early community engagement in Santa Rosa and on the salar. And we do things today, we continue supporting all the [ posteros ] on the salar with weekly visits. We've advised on the way to grow things and with their animals on farmings. We do a lot of health and education in Santa Rosa and in San Antonio de Los Cobres. So basically, all of that has led to FPIC obtained in 2020. And the next step for us in social is to go to IRMA . That's the group approach as well, so that's our next horizon for the coming years. The Environmental Impact Assessment was approved in 2019, and we're in the process of renewing this EIA. And of course, our local team is more than 80% from Salta, and it's almost all Argentinian team. So the second derisking over the last 10 years was on the geology side, with 2 main things. The first thing was about consolidating the salars. So initially, there were 65 tenements, and that was a journey to consolidate all of that. And we now own 95% of this very wide salar. And the second part was to grow the resources up to the 15 million tonnes resources that we have now with 120 wells with a lot of geophysics and a lot of geological modeling. The last part of the derisking was on the process flow sheet. That was extensively covered by Fabien but ultimately, was -- ended up with a pilot at site during 5 years at Centenario. So now the business case of our project is very supported by the fact that we are operating in Salta and Argentina, which are very favorable jurisdiction to operate and that our -- this very favorable environment is even being reinforced in the last 2 years. So in Argentina and in Salta, the lithium is fully concessible. You can own the full resource, which is our case. We have a very transparent royalty system, so we pay, in our case, 3% of an equivalent to EBITDA in terms of royalty. And before going to final investment decision, we've negotiated long-term stability on both the tax and the foreign exchange control. So in our case, we locked income tax of 25%, which is now 35%. We've locked export tax of 4.3%, which is now 4.5%, and this is valid for 30 years. And when it comes to foreign exchange control, we have a specific decree that enables us to extract some -- to keep some of the proceed in U.S. dollar. So all of that has been reinforced in the last 2 years, both at federal level and in the province. So the inflation, which was more than 200% in 2023 is now 25% for this year, so less than 2% a month, which is a drastic change. Export control restriction. So as of next year, we'll be able to pay dividend in U.S. dollar without previous prior authorization. So that's also a big game changer. There are well-known incentive mechanism for large projects in Argentina, so the RIGI, which, if we -- if and when we go to next phase, we can benefit from that, so lots of incentive when it comes to VAT, income tax and the foreign exchange control. And lastly, we've seen and we are seeing a lot of projects going through, so more than 10 projects in copper, in lithium, in gold. So it's creating a lot of infrastructure that are coming when it comes to reagents, when it comes to infrastructure. So it's very positive as well for our business case. So construction, what we're talking about in our case is building a plant at 4,000 meter high, highly technical plant, chemical plant, with remote access in a province, as I said, that was mostly agricultural and going to industrial province and under heavy disturbances when it comes to the macroeconomics because we build that with a high inflation locked U.S. dollar system. So we've been successful delivering that project in 3 years, but what it takes to do that is a lot of work on, first, being able to build highly regulated infrastructure. So when it comes to the gas system, we had to build a gas compression plant, a long pipe system, an airstrip. So then you have to manage your contractors, in our case, 14 contractors, and you need to set the standard in terms of safety, quality, productivity, adherence to schedule. And then you have to manage the custom clearance importation. So all that, we've done with specific action plan and teams. So that took us 3 years, but we've learned a lot in that process. So probably the next stage would be much shorter. So how do we compare ourselves to other greenfield projects in Argentina? So this graph is about capital intensity of the project. So in our case, it's $950 million. So it's 40,000 tonnes -- $40,000 per tonne. So here, you see on the X axis, project status. Y axis is the capital intensity. So this chart comes with a set of messages. The first one is on the right. We are the only bubble to be dark, so it's for DLE project. So it's the only project of DLE that went through as a greenfield in the last 3 years. The second thing is you see that our capital intensity has been matching the one of conventional ponds. The third thing is you see that all the projects that are coming online, on the left of the chart, they are mostly DLE. So we are shifting it. It becomes almost the new normal. But all of these projects, they are in project phase. So it's -- they will probably take 3 years before we see the next greenfield really. So that's how ahead we are in terms of timing. And in terms of capital intensity, we are on the low side of all of these upcoming projects. So some of them are twice higher in terms of capital intensity. So of course, for our next phase is where we want to be, when we are -- on the left of the chart is to be below the $40,000 per tonne. We want to be materially lower in terms of CapEx intensity. That's the target for the future. Okay. So now the most important is we do all that to produce, generate cash flow and high-quality materials. So where do -- we are? Where are we now? We -- they were -- H1 was all about the start-up and commissioning of this plant, and we transitioned the plant 1st of July from the project execution team to the operation team. And since then, in 5 months, we've reached 66% of the nameplate capacity of this plant, which is 2,000 tonnes of lithium carbonate per month. So it was very quick and steep ramp-up. So if you compare that to McNulty benchmark, the Series 1 is for a very mature project, from project using mature technology. Series 2 is about projects that use mature technology, but add to that some prototype technology that have been piloted. So you see that we are, for the time being above. We're a bit better than the curve, but the plan moving forward is to stay in that 2 series. And then when we compare ourselves to other greenfield projects in Argentina, we've reached 65% in less -- in 5 months when our project did. The next best one took more than a year to achieve that same point. So a very, very steep ramp-up. We want to continue that journey. So we want to be mid-2026 at 90% and then reach the over 90% and then reach the full volume by end of next year, volume being the first priority today. So what's behind this curve? There are 3 very important elements behind that. The first 1 -- and these 3 elements will enable us to deliver the rest of the ramp-up. The first one has been and remains our ability to manage the problem that you face in the ramp-up. So it's problem solving. We have OT process, engineering challenges, so the ability to sort the projects and then to get expertise from Eramet group. So we have -- on-site, we we've moved 50 experts rotating over the last years. So all of this is absolutely key to sustain the steep ramp-up. The second element is we are talking about a new operation team in a new plant. So behind that, what we did is our pilot plant was, in fact, the training center. So a lot of the key people that are in the operations team have been trained in this training center over the last 5 years, specifically important on the process side. And here, again, this new team has been heavily supported by the Eramet group experts that we flagged since a year on site. And the third component, which I think becomes a blueprint for the rest of the group, is the fact that we have a very clear ramp-up plan. A very clear set of risks have been identified. And in front of that, we put some critical milestones that we need to deliver so that we sustain the ramp-up curves. So that 3 elements, we'll continue to put that in place, so that we continue to have a successful ramp-up until full volume completion. Now in terms of cash cost, so we will go to a range of $5,400 to $5,800 per tonnes of lithium carbonate produced. So part of that journey from where we are today to this $5,400-$5,800 range is coming from the volume effect, of course. And then it's about the optimization that we will do. So part of the optimization is on the reagent, which is a big chunk or the largest chunk of our cash cost, so unit consumption optimization, that's process again, and unit cost optimization. And then there's a lot of -- there is some optimization coming from the energy side as well. We are very confident we will get there. Why? Three things. First, the reagent consumption that we've seen in the last 5 months are very, very close to what we had for design, so there is no surprise there. And the second element is energy-wise, we have a very efficient system that comes both from our connection to the gas pipe and the power plant, which is a co-generating power plant, so more than 80% efficiency. And the third element is all this optimization initiative as part of the group initiative, we've identified that and as the full potential of the asset. And so we have a clear list of actions, and we know exactly what to do for the next 2 years so that we get we get to this $5,400-$5,800 range. So with this cash cost, if we plot Centenario on the cash cost curve, we are on the very good side of the first quartile. If you add the CIF, 1,000 -- roughly 1,000 of CIF. So even in low cycle like the one we've experienced in this year in 2025, we will still be a cash-generating asset. So it's an asset that is geared for -- by weather as well. So now the start -- the ramp-up in terms of sales and marketing. So I think we've been successful in the last month to enter the battery value chain. So we today have 20 customers, very high-profile customer, carmakers. So you see some of the names here. In terms of realized price, so with an average price over the last 9 months of $8,500, when you compare that to the battery grade SMM index, which was $8,800 for the same period, that tells us about the quality of our first production. 90% of our sales go to the EV chain in China, and half of it goes directly to end users, so cathode makers. Lastly, we have a partnership with Glencore for half of our volume, 5 years and 50,000 tonnes. So we work as a -- with them as a co-marketing, in a co-marketing scheme. So what's ahead for our future? I think the first thing is we continue to prove the business case of this asset, of course. We have -- we reached both the volume, then the cash cost and the quality of battery grades. It's an asset that is geared to work for the next 40 years. So then as said, we're on the salar with a massive potential. So the lithium carbonate resources that we have, combined with the freshwater we have enable us to support production -- the early production of more than 75,000 tonnes of lithium carbonate. We'd do even battery if we continue to improve our process on some of the aspects like the freshwater consumption and the depleted brine management. So that's the potential we have. So the way we approach that -- what I'm going to tell has to be put in the context of the first priority of Eramet group, which is to deleverage the balance sheet. But the way we approach that in the case of Centenario is to study options, and we've been doing that for the last year. That fits a set of criteria. First, we want to deliver materially lower capital intensity. So remember the chart I show on the capital intensity. We want to be on the left below the $40,000 line materially. Two, we want to make sure that the new project will be delivering the scale effect. So you've seen that there are 60% of fixed cost. So we want to make sure we capture the scale effect as well as improving the input costs, which are mostly reagents, and energy. The third thing is we want to go -- we want to be quick -- we want to have a quick time to market with derisk projects. So that's mostly about reusing some of the proven technology we have in our current plants and making some improvements. And then we want to do that in the context that we can benefit from here. So that's the filter we use. So today, the most likely option for the first expansion would be a brownfield, which makes -- which is the best one to match all of this criteria. And then we're talking about replication for the subsequent phases. Beyond Centenario, as you can see, we have a competitive advantage. So with first mover, very strong process, demonstrated construction, demonstrated startup, demonstrated ramp-up, so we think there is a play as well to use that to get our way in Tier 1 assets in lithium. That's not on the slide, but that's part of the game plan as well. And then lastly, coming back to Centenario, what we want to do is we want to do reinjections. So we are working hard on that because this is -- this has a lot of value in terms of depleted brine management. That's a solution to that, but also in terms of aquifer equilibrium footprint, special footprint, when we close that loop, our operation basically will be less than 50 hectares, a plant of 500 meters on 800 meters. And then that's all it is, so very, very limited special footprint. So for us, reinjection is the next horizon technically. So thanks a lot. I'll hand over to Geoff.

Thank you, Jean-Baptiste. And before I move on to the strategy and market side of this presentation, I really just want to pay tribute to the more than decade work by our teams to deliver this project. Our exploration team, the work done on CSR and community engagement from the very beginning, our research and development capabilities that have brought forward what you've seen today, our project teams that have developed and constructed this and now the operational team that is in -- very capably bringing things forward into ramp-up, and it's a tremendous achievement, what's been delivered here. So I don't plan to spend too long talking about the market outlook. It's a topic for which there is an enormous amount of discussion available across the lithium investment community. We obviously internally spend a lot of time looking at the outlook for lithium to drive how we perceive both the value that we believe we can create from the investment we've already made as well as the future value optionality that we see. I think what really is clear to me is how rapidly the lithium sector is evolving. If you look at it over time, it's evolved from a chemical industry niche market not that long ago to suddenly a whole host of new demand sources, a whole host of new customers, a whole host of new producers emerging. And then you're looking at really rapid growth in those underlying new sources of demand but also constant change in the form of the lithium that is needed by the market. The challenge of that, of course, is how do you prepare for that in the context of long life assets where your market may change in what it needs from you. But when we look at the market, obviously, there is the ESS -- the EV sector, which has been the driver of the energy transition demand for lithium until now. And obviously, that demand is continuing, and there is a lot of market commentary as to how that plays out. What has really obviously been a great upside for us has been the emergence of the energy storage sector and when you look and talk about the electrification of the global economy, how important energy storage is, particularly as mature grids migrate to greater renewable energy content, we see the energy storage sector being the dark horse that can really potentially open up demand for lithium. To some degree, it's a very different market to the EV sector with very different sensitivities and different levels of demand. And so we are very excited about what could take place there. But we also see emerging demand for lithium as the form of energy storage across the electrification of the economy. So not just in storage and electric vehicles. But what's really starting to take place now is the electrification of heavy transport, so trucks and machinery. We're really starting to see an emerging vertical electrification potential. We're starting to see, obviously, the industrialization of robotics as they move beyond factories into -- more and more into particularly mature economies where the demographics are going to start requiring more and more robotic support. So we see really huge potential growth, but we also are always incredibly mindful that the global resource endowment of lithium is also very high, and the market is showing that it can respond to these demand signals and the supply side is able to come through in projects such as what we're presenting to you today. And as we talk about our strategy, it's as we approach this emerging blend of strong demand outlook but also being very mindful of the strong supply response that can come to that. The challenge for us as a lithium producer is that we're designing and building assets that have to last for decades in a very -- to supply a very rapidly evolving market. It is not a constant commodity, which is unchanged in terms of what the market wants. So as we look at it and we're trying to think about where do our projects position what is their outlook, what is their value creation potential, we're looking at how will the lithium cost curve evolve. You're seeing, for example, a significant emergence in the last few years of large-scale potential lithium projects, both in brine and DLE but also in terms of some of the mineral-based projects, really large-scale projects potentially coming through, which would bring large volumes into the market in relatively short space. You've obviously seen the impact of low production cost DLE such as what we're presenting to you today. We're seeing sovereign governments choosing to support projects and as part of achieving security of their own supply chain. And we're seeing host resource country demands for in-country and local transformation of their products. And all of this has impact for how the lithium cost curve will evolve, both in terms of the quantity of product but also the cost structure of that product. We obviously are mindful that there is this large volume of projects being considered. But how will they go from a certainty of execution perspective? The social acceptance of projects is challenging in certain jurisdictions. We've seen that already. We are seeing a lot of uncertainty around access to core technologies. As lithium becomes more and more of a geopolitical and trade commodity, we're seeing the emergence of potential restrictions on access to technology necessary to produce lithium. And obviously, there's a lot of emerging but low maturity technologies where, on one side, we need to remember they're low maturity, but they could emerge to come significant disruptors in how lithium is produced, and we need to factor that into our project considerations. Then when we look at what does our market want, what is the product, what is the end product of the intermediaries or end customers that is needed, what is the form of that product, the quality, the scale, do they want battery-grade lithium carbonate or are they able to take an intermediate technical grade, maybe we will see in time other forms of lithium emerge. We've obviously seen a lot of attention in recent years about lithium hydroxide versus lithium chloride versus lithium carbonate. What will be the outlook for solid-state batteries? So there's a lot of constant change in this industry where you need to anticipate and not necessarily lock in one fixed product outlook because you need to be agile to respond to that over time. And of course, this sector, there is a very, very high emphasis on sustainability and quality requirements. And that's a challenge to deliver in terms of the quality requirements. It requires very, very strong process control and QA and QC capabilities but also the sustainability, which we've endeavored very hard to deliver here with Centenario. But we need to be mindful that the industry is growing rapidly, many participants, and there is a risk that the industry grows so rapidly that social acceptance becomes a pressure that has to be -- has implications for the whole industry. Then on the demand side, who are our customers? And I mentioned earlier, the customers of the lithium sector have evolved hugely from being a niche chemical sector to now a burgeoning electro mobility sector. We've seen enormous concentration of demand more recently into the North Asia and particularly Chinese lithium processing sector. We're seeing, again, concentration of ownership of the core technologies of the demand side; and obviously, we're seeing a lot of geopolitical influence in supply chain concentration. And so all of these factors create very significant strategic challenges as you think about investing in long-term lithium assets. We believe that Eramet is very well equipped to succeed in being a potential and now emerging participant in the lithium value chain. Obviously, we see, though, that you need to have the key success factors to succeed in lithium. Reducing the capital intensity of lithium conversion is, for us, an absolute must. So yes, our lithium DLE technology that we're showcasing here is incredibly exciting and as you've seen, we're very confident that it is now ramping up well. But the low cost of production it delivers is at the cost of a very high upfront investment, and we need to find a way to reduce that capital intensity to ensure that this sector can remain competitive with the other sectors that are also ramping up and evolving. We need to continue to derisk the process flow sheet. We need to be able to have open access to technologies, and we think that's a key lever for Eramet. Assets have to be resilient and cash generative and value creative in price down cycles. The lithium sector has a long history of being a commodity that spends a lot of time in a relatively low price phase, close to the marginal cost of production. And you need to be confident that you're not just relying on the occasional price spike to be a value creative business. It's very, very important that you can be a sustainable, cash-generative value-creating business at the long-run prices that we often see in lithium. And you have to be able to execute and operate responsibly. And that means high ESG standards, strong focus on social acceptance and the branding of your product, and strong focus on cross collaboration with your peers, your customers, the sector, the communities that host you, the regions that host you and the industrial environment. So we think that matches very well with Eramet's capabilities. We believe we're demonstrating here strong established expertise in lithium project development, flow sheet design and now construction and delivery. Technology leadership in lithium. Particularly, we have in-house proprietary and now proven processes that are subject to no external control, no external licensing, and we have in-house control of the manufacturing of the core inputs to those technologies. We are able to work with third-party technologies to optimize our process. We're able to deliver end-to-end process optimization and capital intensity. We have a portfolio of growth options here in Argentina associated with Centenario. We have a growth option in France, and we're actively seeking through exploration and development activities globally future growth options to bring into the portfolio. We also have a continuous innovation capacity both at the business here and at our research capabilities in France at our center outside Paris, where we're able to really focus on maintaining the competitiveness and the ESG performance of our technology, driving down consumption of reagents, driving down consumption of energy, driving down consumption of freshwater. And as a company, all of this is underpinned by our emphasis on corporate social responsibility and particularly our act for positive mining CSR road map, which provides a framework through which we seek to absolutely minimize the social and environmental impact of our operations. So what does that mean for us in terms of our strategy? I want to talk about this through 2 lenses: our commercial strategy and then -- and that's the commercial strategy of how we position ourselves in the market, and then our investment strategy. So on the commercial strategy side, we are still at the moment in the ramp-up phase. We're not at this point, we have not entered into long-term contracted sales to any one customer. Our emphasis at the moment is introducing our product to the market, a large number of sales of smaller parcels to a wide range of potential customers to make our product known, enable them to get familiar with it, enable them to test and use our product. It is really encouraging how much we're already selling into the direct end user sector who are taking our lithium carbonate straight into their battery products today. We want to, over time, of course, diversify our customer base. Now this is a customer base that we believe is emerging over time, as the geopolitical and supply response to the demand for EVs plays out. But we want to particularly be able to sell to effectively any global market. We will focus particularly initially on South Korea, Japan and Europe and North America. But we need to be mindful that we have a limited product, and we believe it's a product with high ESG credentials, high market recognition, and we want to maximize the value of that. We want to push for that recognition, both in terms of its quality, the ownership structure, which we believe is incredibly simple relative to many other companies, where we can deliver into any market free of any geopolitical influence our credentials of how we produce, and working towards the IRMA assessment of the project. We also are very focused on where can we maximize the value of our product into the niche industries that also consume lithium carbonate outside of the traditional battery sector. And we want to develop long-term customer relationships through technical collaboration and qualification, but we're very, very conscious of the need to absolutely focus on the maximization of our sales. And we're not rushing to lock commercial strategies and long-term sales contracts until we really understand the value proposition of our product in the market. Then on the investment strategy, and this is a topic that we're often asked. We've got now at Centenario a successfully ramping up project. What's next? So firstly, for all of our interest in wanting to grow our Lithium business, I want to put this into perspective. Our shareholders have invested the best part of $1 billion in the creation of Centenario. That's an enormous investment in the scale of Eramet's enterprise value. It's our single largest project investment. And we have to demonstrate the value of that investment to our shareholders, to our Board before we can really come back asking for significant further investment. We have to ramp it up successfully. We have to operate it successfully. And the market and the pricing outcomes have to enable us to be showing that, that $1 billion of investment is actually returning value to shareholders. That's cash. Our shareholders need that reward. And that is our highest priority for this business today before we continue with very significant investment into further production. Secondly, in the context of Eramet today, we have made a very large investment here. We have been in challenging market conditions. And our focus today is on priority of allocating the cash generated by our businesses to reducing our gross debt and delivering a deleveraged platform against which we can then grow. Having said that, we absolutely believe, first and foremost, don't go chasing bright shiny objects elsewhere when you have a bright shiny object already in your backyard. And that, of course, is the Centenario asset, the resource base that Jean-Baptiste showed to you before, 75,000 tonnes plus of production potential. So the highest priority projects we have in our growth portfolio for investment is, of course, optimizing the future extraction and ramp-up of the asset base of Centenario here in Argentina. We also then have other project options that we're developing, but the best value investment we have will, of course, be maximizing what we have at Centenario first. We will continue to innovate. We really fully understand how important ongoing innovation will be to maintain the competitiveness of what we have and the competitiveness and capital intensity of future project expansions and/or new projects. And we will continue to enter into targeted strategic projects and investment partnerships with other strategic lithium investors where we can bring to the story, our technical capabilities, our track record and really, really a focus on maximizing shareholder returns over necessarily wanting to, on our own, deliver large turnkey greenfield projects because we see here a lot of value to be created by being the company that can unlock lithium success for strategic investors. So that's our approach and how we see it, but I want to really emphasize our single greatest priority in our lithium business today is rewarding the shareholders of Eramet who've invested in the asset that we're presenting to you today. And that's what the team is focused on, and that's what we need to deliver first.

So thank you very much for watching the presentation part of this event, and we're now going to move to the Q&A section, which we will start with questions from the audience here in Salta and then move to questions from the online audience. Thank you very much. Okay. So first question? Jason? I believe there should be microphones available.

Jason Fairclough, Bank of America. Just -- I mean, you mentioned the sunk capital here, right? How do you think about the earnings power, the cash flow generation power of this asset on a go-forward basis? And how much sustaining capital are you going to be spending to keep this thing running at design capacity?

Sure. So obviously, the earning cash generation potential is entirely driven by lithium price from here. I think we presented to you how we see the production costs and the CIF cost structure of this business. And then it comes down to that available margin. Firstly, we've been putting our product into the market now for 5 months or, actually, in fact, even longer in terms of some of the very initial batches. We're typically selling so far at only several hundred dollars less than the battery grade benchmark for the products we've been selling. So we're able to capture very well even today, where we're yet to start marketing a battery-grade product, the very, very vast proportion of the battery grade index. So from a value creation perspective, we're very confident. Obviously, the cash margin creation is driven ultimately by price outlook. But if we're in a world where once we're substantially ramped up, we're strongly in the $5,000 to $5,500 price range, then the cash generation potential becomes very significant. 24,000, 25,000 tonnes of production, you may well be if you're at a $13,000 price, for example, you're talking at $8,000 a tonne cash generation potential or $7,000 depending on CIF impacts. So we see strong cash generation potential, but it's very much from now going to be driven by ramp-up delivery, volume delivery and then how does the lithium price evolve, which obviously is outside of our control. But we're obviously seeing -- after what has been a couple of difficult years for the lithium industry, we're starting to see some positive trajectory emerge in recent times.

So sorry, just a follow-up. In terms of sort of sustaining CapEx, how do you view that...

Of course, in sustaining capital, look, typically, we anticipate a business like this would require several percent, I mean, low single-digit percentage of its invested capital base. Sustaining capital here in the first phase today is -- obviously, should be relatively minor. We're in a new plant environment for the first few years. As you start to build up an inventory of maintenance issues in the plant that need to be addressed, as you start to approach a world where you have to start investing in new wells to bring on new sources of production across the salar, we would anticipate that the sustaining capital would rise from maybe 2% or 3% of the asset base to something a bit higher.

Okay. Just a follow-up if I could. In terms of the expansion potential, I mean, obviously, the resource is absolutely enormous, right, enormous. So how do we think about the gateways or if you like, the milestones for thinking about the next stage?

So Jean-Baptiste, I think, presented a little bit about the resource potential. We believe with what we've demonstrated today through the drilling and resource assessment to date that this salar can support at least 75,000 tonnes per annum of production where, once this plant is fully ramped up, we'll be at roughly 1/3 of that capability. So we see effectively an opportunity to triple the production base over time in terms of the resource and in terms of the freshwater availability. We need to really focus on driving down, however, freshwater consumption in the process to ensure that does not become a constraint, and we need to really focus on brine disposal through reinjection to again ensure a brine disposal doesn't become a constrained in unlocking that potential. The second aspect for us is we have to prove the value of what we've done first, is the sunk investment. And we have to ensure that the investments we propose going forward, which, as Jean-Baptiste said, would initially be expansion of the existing plant before we then would contemplate building a separate plant elsewhere on the salar, we have to ensure that those investments can be made at a significantly improved capital intensity to what we've delivered here at just under $40,000 a tonne.

Austin Yun from Macquarie in Australia. Just a couple of questions. The first one is on the strategic investment, you highlighted like through partnerships and other considerations. You definitely have an amiable resource base that -- over 90% owned. That is not very common in Argentina. Would you consider some sort of a joint venture to fast track your growth given that you have a plant that is working in the ramp-up, you have this salar and you have a unique technology leverage?

Yes. Look, there's absolutely no doubt that we today are able to present something that would be very compelling for a strategic investor in lithium. We're now close to being able to say we have the first new generation of DLE derisked, ramping up well, fully constructed and operating with significant growth potential. So obviously, from the perspective of if we were seeking a strategic investor into our lithium business to help with that, we believe we're now approaching the time where we can develop and present a very compelling proposition for that. Whether we choose to do that, of course, would depend on, firstly, how the market evolves, what might potential investors present to us. You can never say never in terms of if somebody was to knock on our door and make a compelling proposition that, from the perspective of our shareholders and strategy, was going to deliver more value than continuing to develop the asset ourselves. We absolutely would have to take that seriously. Obviously, in the context of Eramet's current capital structure. We're conscious of the need to look for opportunities for external equity funding as well. So -- and to focus, that can enable us to direct cash to reducing our gross debt. So absolutely, a compelling investment into the business is something that we would always seriously consider. It would have to be a compelling proposition. We've gone to a great deal of effort to bring back the ownership under sole Eramet control at 100%. And any change from that strategy would have to be one that we don't believe in any way would impede the business in terms of the markets they can operate in, in terms of how we can grow it, but it would have to be one with a partner which we think can help us take the business forward. But it would have to be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

Just a quick follow-up on the market side. Lithium market is at a very early stage compared to other commodities, right, and that the price has been very volatile. What's your thought on setting up price flows of ceilings in your sales agreement? I mean, few of your peers are doing that already.

Yes. So look, obviously, structures that can help both protect the producer in a low environment and reduce the exposure of a buyer to extreme price upside are something that, to date, we've not done. We're in ramp-up phase. At the moment, our emphasis is on introducing our product to the market, introducing it from in terms of its quality and its credentials. To be able to start to enter into more of the, say, sophisticated sales structure such as what you proposed, you have to have established yourself. You have to be a reliable producer. For someone to enter into structures that potentially can be more value creative, you've got to be able to give them confidence. So we feel it's probably a bit early for us to be trying to lock down production, trying to lock down be it through those sort of structures or through just committing to any one significant buyer. But absolutely, we are very focused on exploring how to get the maximum value of our product. What are the niche markets we should be targeting? What are the key buying relationships we should be targeting? But we want to first really strongly establish our product in the market and create a competitive demand for our product over other products that are available.

Chris Williams from Adamas Intelligence. Perhaps a question for Fabien. Could you talk to the unique attributes of the DLE plant with respect to the product specifications you've been able to achieve today in the ramp-up phase and perhaps the full potential that the plant could deliver in time to deliver a battery-grade product?

Okay. Thank you. So what is quite key is that, today, we are talking of DLE plant. The DLE unit is delivering exactly the performance that is in the design and up to that because, for example, the recovery yield is 95% when the design was 90%. So we are in line with that. The performance of all the purification units are also in line, and we are missing the startup of one polishing unit. Even not having the polishing unit, so the last unit that are tracking the last impurity to be very high quality, we are producing some batches at battery-grade quality. Okay? So now the priority is the volume. To have the volume, we need to have the stability, and the stability is the first step, really very important step to achieve the quality. So today, not having the full nameplate capacity, not having yet the full stability, we have yet battery-grade batches, some battery-grade batches and a lot of technical-grade batches. So yes, we are very confident to reach the battery-grade quality, let's say, having the demonstration of the positioning of the performance of the plant today.

Any other questions from the audience here in Salta? Yes.

Nico Delmas, Portzamparc BNP Paribas. A quick question. If you actually were to expand your plans through brownfield investments, what would be our credible targets in terms of CapEx intensity metrics and cash cost for the expanding plant?

We're not really yet ready to provide specific guidance on what we see as being the, let's call it, the metrics of our potential expansions. We're still evaluating a range of alternatives. And until we've assessed what we believe to be the highest value optimizing alternative, we don't want to really comment too specifically. Suffice to say, Jean-Baptiste spoke, we believe that the expansion of the existing plant's footprint can be delivered for materially less per tonne of lithium than what we've delivered so far at just over $39,000 per tonne. So there's some guidance for you there around how we see the unit capital intensity of an expansion. In terms of cost, clearly, if you're expanding an existing plant and you -- for those of you who have had an opportunity to visit the plant, this is a plant that has a relatively straightforward labor requirement. And therefore, we believe you could expand the existing plant without really materially impacting your workforce requirements. So the opportunities for a fixed cost spread across the greater production base are important. And given fixed costs are 60% of our current production cost, that is there, and that would have a material impact on the cost -- the incremental cost potential of an expansion. If you were to build a separate plant elsewhere on the salar, perhaps sort of northern end, 50 kilometers away, clearly, that has a more complex assessment that you would have to work through in terms of its cost -- unit cost potential. Another question from Jason.

It's not that many of us here. So obviously, we had a lovely drive down on the road yesterday, 7 hours. How are you thinking about encouraging improved infrastructure for the region?

I think the first priority, as is today, is to make sure on the -- because there's a lot of trucks' input, output that goes to site, so for today, we have a second road with -- which is different. We have protection system for the drivers as well. We have escort system when we come -- when it comes to reagents. So that's for today. I think the plan moving forward is to effectively collaborate with the other mining players because we're, a lot of projects in La Puna using the same roads. So that first, we can improve the mining roads, which is neither provincial or federal and then work together on the provincial and federal roads to improve that. Then it's probably longer term. There's a train that goes up to Pocitos, so there's -- that could be an option as well to eliminate a lot of the reagents from the road, but it's a longer shot given the state of the railway today. And then when you take the other part of the equation, which is our team and bringing people to site, so today, our airstrip system is limited in capacity. So again, here, the way forward is to make sure that we fly as much as possible our own employees and contractors at site. That's the way we -- that's the sort of road map. We have to manage that bit of the project.

Okay. Maybe if I could just build on that, Jason. I think when you look at the lithium industry in the region, for its long-term global competitiveness, absolutely, the improvement of logistics chains for the delivery of the key input materials and product out is a critical element and for the safe transportation. So I think if you've got safe and efficient logistics, if you look at our cost base of the reagents that are coming into site, a very significant percentage of their cost is logistics and transport. And logistics and transport is ultimately about time and transport time, and anything that can be done that improved safety and efficiency of the system is going to be critical to maintain the ongoing global competitiveness of the lithium brine sector emerging in the Salta and La Puna region.

Okay. If I could just follow up with one. So Geoff, you have a bigger role than just having an eye on lithium. So how do we think about lithium in the context of Eramet? Is this a priority product from here? Or is this still just one of the portfolio materials?

Well, obviously, for the last few years, it's been our most significant growth investment that we've been undertaking. Now that, that growth investment is largely delivered in terms of the plant that is now commissioning, it becomes one of our product bases as opposed to being the new emerging product. In terms of investment portfolio allocation, first, as I said earlier, our priority today as a company for the next 1 to 2 years is absolutely on delivering cash back into the business, improving operational performance and less of an emphasis on growth investment across our portfolio. When we look at our other markets today, we are obviously needing to continue to invest in improving the reliability of our logistics chain manganese business in Gabon. We need to achieve the full potential of our manganese business there. Improving rail and port logistics is the key focus of that investment as opposed to investing in growth of the mine per se. Unlocking rail and port there unlocks capacity in the mine for very, very little incremental investment in the mine. When you look at our mineral sands business, we have been investing in the last year in an expansion in processing capacity at Grande Côte to increase production capacity there by nearly 20%. Now the mineral sands business has, obviously, particularly in the last 6 months, entered quite a difficult market phase brought about by a range of factors on both the supply and the demand side. I don't anticipate that we would consider significant further growth investment in mineral sands for the time being beyond delivering the expansion that we anticipate commissioning in March of the Grande Côte plant there. In our manganese alloys business, our primary focus is absolutely on operating performance and delivering value over volume. So we're not in a growth -- investment growth mindset in our manganese alloys business either. And then we have our nickel business in Indonesia at Weda Bay, where we absolutely would seek to be able to increase production of the mine in line with growing demand from the Weda Bay Industrial Park that sits at the base of the mine. But that's an investment that is not particularly capital intensive to achieve. The nature of that mining business, it's more about mobilizing operational resources, contracted mining fleets, contracted road haulage fleets, expanding the road and pit developments but not in a very highly capital-intensive way like deep open cuts. So we see strong growth optionality there, but it has to be growth optionality matching demand and also permitted production within the Indonesian regulatory context. So across our business, we see growth options, but our absolute focus for the next year is delivering operational performance and cash back into the business. So I think we'll move now to questions from the online audience. Thank you.

Yes, well there are a few questions from the online audience. First, So where would you say your version of DLE differs from Arcadium, which is now Rio Tinto's technology?

So sure, I don't have all the details of Rio Tinto technology. I have some clue of that. Maybe I will emphasize what is the very specific of our sorbent and our DLE, and I think we'll be -- we'll explain that. I didn't mention this property of our sorbent, but our sorbent is delivering the high performance, but at low temperature. So you have many competitors' sorbent that need to warm up the brine. They need to warm up the water regeneration to achieve a good performance. We are not doing that. We are pumping the brine directly, and we are filling the DLE at the temperature -- that is the temperature outlet of the well. So you can imagine we are talking about 1,600 cubic per hour at nameplate capacity. If you need to warm that, it's a massive amount of energy. So when we are talking about sustainability, it's also energy efficiency. And I think the solvent -- the sorbent was really developed in the idea, one of the first KPI was work at performance at low temperature. And so we did that. We have a very specific sorbent delivering the full performance at low temperature. So I think this is one of the main difference of our sorbent. I will say maybe we have also another difference. This is a next-generation sorbent. Rio Tinto technology is major, is already proven, but it is a technology for the 19th. Today, we have the third generation of sorbents inside the plant. high performance, high also mechanical performance. So we have a long lifetime, and I think this is also a big difference against competitors. And even if we are ranking position 1, we are still doing innovation, and we are in the way to develop a fourth generation to even higher performance, not just for the performance but also for the sustainability, even more pure solution of lithium chloride, so less reagents for the purification, so less truck, less CO2 in Scope 3, having also something even more with a big reservoir, high speed, so it's also water consumption. Compaction of the plant, so it's also CapEx intensity because if my DLE is more compact, more selective, the plant is smaller. I need less also purification units. So I think, today, we are demonstrating that we have the best DLE because this is the only next-generation DLE fully in control. And we are continuing to developing that to innovate, and so I'm sure that, in the future, we will still be first position.

So another question on the global process recovery yield. Regarding the efficiency in the current process, can you please give us some color in the global process recovery yield when the plant achieved full production?

Okay. So very good question because the yield is important, and it's not only the yield. But the yield is important because this is, let's say, all the streams are going back to the DLE international recycling to catch all the lithium. And as you have seen, 90% in the design but 95% in the reality, the industrial reality that we have today. So this is a first good performance to achieve a global yield that will be high. Today, we are targeting a global recovery yield higher than 80%. Okay? We have some upside to go to higher, but it's also linked to reagent costs because we need to have some trade-off in terms of I can improve, again, my recovery yield, but I need some reagents. So as today, the idea is to generate cash. The idea is to have the lower OpEx as possible. So today, we are maintaining our target at higher than 80%, but we have some opportunities to be better than that.

And I think that's a very important element that it's easy to focus on sort of very core production metrics, but you need to be really optimizing your production plan around what is the price of the product you're producing, what is the margin that can be generated above different quality grades, and then what is the cost of the reagents needed to produce those. And it's a constantly evolving mix that would see us, we believe, evolve our production targets, our grade targets, our yield targets, our quality targets to meet the market and maximize volume at any point in time.

So another one on CO2, water consumption and depleted brine. So what's the CO2 footprint and the water consumption per tonne of lithium products? How do you compare to other DLE projects and the rest of the industry in general? And how do you handle waste from production, so I suppose by waste, it's depleted brine since you do not reinject the brine from the time being?

So CO2 footprint, so you have seen the number inside the presentation. So we are really on the low side on the CO2 emission per tonne of lithium carbonate produced because it's 6 tonnes of CO2 per tonne of LCE. Full scope, Scope 1 plus 2 plus 3, so including the direct emission of the process, the power plant fed by gas but also the reagents, so this is very low number for a lithium producer. If you compare to lithium production from spodumene, we are not at all in the same universe, thanks also working at low temperature, so it's also energy efficiency, so for the CO2 footprint. Water consumption, so we will not discuss today the numbers because as we have a ramp-up, we want to disclose, let's say, strong numbers that we will not, let's say, say other things in a close future. But what we see today is that this is in line with our design. The older units that are built to recover the water, so reverse osmosis, forced evaporation in the water treatment plant. We have also internal recycling [ DV ]. We have international recycling. Everything is on line with the design. So we are pretty sure to deliver a low water consumption that is good. Also, in terms of optimization and innovation, water consumption is very important, yes. But we have the chance to be in a salar with a full control. We don't have competition on the water. Okay? That is not potable water. It's really, let's say, brackish freshwater that should be purified to be used in the process. So no competition with our [ posteros ]. They are using the surface water. We are pumping the water 100 meter deep, so let's say, not the same water, not with also all the wildlife and the plants because they are using also surface water. And having -- let's say, today, we will take only 10%, 15% of the global recharge of the salar. Why? This salar has huge lithium inside, but also the size of the salar is really an advantage. You can see the salar like a big funnel that will take all the rain, all the snow across the year, and so we will -- the salar, the nature, will store this water on the side of the salar protected. And let's say, we have a lot of water without competitor, not other industry due to the -- all the tenements are owned by Eramet, and so we will achieve the full potential of the salar. In terms of other projects in other location, if the water is even more scarce, thanks to the R&D, thanks to the technology watch, so we have also technologies to save more water, that is the priority, and save it without energy and even more -- recover more water, actively recover more water. So let's say, we have some targets to be less than 50 cubic per tonne LCE. We have some design that deliver less than that, and so we are very confident to deliver full potential of Centenario but also to adapt the full process because it's adapted full process technology to fit in other environment when water is more subject.

Perhaps, Jean-Baptiste, you'd like to comment on reinjection and its importance in the long term development of the asset.

Yes. So reinjection, so we're in the drilling, currently, 4 wells. That will help us then next year start a proof point of the concept that has been developed for injection. So that's something the industry is talking a lot about, but the reality in salar is no one has done that, but we're very confident with the concept we have. So again, next year, we'll prove the concept, and then we'll move forward to a project. And as I was saying, the special footprint when you reinject, you -- it's complete game changer. So instead of having ponds that are 4 kilometers by 3 kilometers, you have a plant that is 500 meters by 800 meters, so it's a completely different world. And then that also solved the depleted brine management because you don't have to build artificial evaporation ponds. So that's a very key project for our CTO group here in Argentina and our geology team in Paris.

And I think it's important to recognize that, today, the project is not permitted to reinject. In fact, it's not an activity that is permitted anywhere in Salta. And the proof-of-concept project that we want to do over the next few years is to demonstrate to the regulators here that it is something that can be done to improve this long-term sustainability of the project. And we feel that, here, this is a really important opportunity for us to maintain our industry leadership and be, hopefully, the first project to be not only a first new generation DLE but also first fully reinjecting. That would be an objective that we would like -- love to work towards. But it will also require a change in the regulatory expectations here in Salta.

Another question from the logistics standpoint. Are Chilean ports an alternative to reduce transport costs?

So our baseline was -- is today using Rosario in Argentina. And we've done our first export to Chile last month. So moving forward, we want to have the options to either use Rosario. We've also Buenos Aires as a fallback and then to have options in Chile. And depending from the season, the load of the different ports, then we can switch from one to the other. In terms of cost, very surprisingly, the Argentinian road to Rosario wasn't the most competitive one. Then, if you look at the full cost to China, then Chile makes a bit more sense. But our first sales were FOB Argentina.

A question on the agreement with Glencore. So at current market pricing, do you expect to generate any cash flows until you fully repay the Glencore prepayment facility?

Sure. So the agreement we have with Glencore was a general financing provision to Eramet. It's not a project-linked financing arrangement. And then Glencore is able to, with us, co-market 50,000 tonnes of product over a roughly 5-year period. There is a commercially confidential marketing fee associated with that, but effectively, the cash generated through that arrangement is fully able to be returned to Eramet and then would be used to meet all of our global financing objectives, not just the Glencore agreement. So to date, we're fully up to date in that agreement. We are now well and truly able to meet the volume requirements at our current rate of production and going forward under that agreement. And it has proven for us to be a very useful agreement because Glencore has been marketing lithium carbonate products for a number of years now and has a deep market presence, a deep market knowledge that we're able to rapidly leverage. And here, we are already only 5 months in. We have sold to more than 20 different customers, and we're really leveraging that deep book of Glencore to be able to access that market.

Another question on the marketing strategy. On the commercial marketing side, in your discussion with future customers, will you prefer long-term contracts at fixed price? Or will you favor spot price exposure?

We've made no firm decision. So as I said earlier, today, our emphasis that -- on the fact that we are not yet fully ramped up. We're not yet a stable producer for whom we could make a compelling value proposition to a long-term contractor. Our absolute focus today is to work out what is the value of our product in the market relative to our competitors, what are the market segments that most highly value our product, who's willing to pay the most for it and then determine over time once we settle and stabilize our production base and have a strong understanding of the market value proposition. Then, we would look to optimize the contractual nature of our sales agreements. Whether that means us enter into long-term sale contracts, whether that means we remain spot, that would be a policy decision we would make once we believe we really understand the value proposition of our product in the market through proven sales testing, and it would be a policy through which it would be all about value. We have, across our portfolio of commodities we sell today, a whole range of sales arrangements, and they're all driven by maximizing value and depends on the dynamics of the market and the nature of the products we're selling.

Last question from the online audience. As far as expansions are concerned, what is the deadline to be eligible for RIGI?

So RIGI is obviously a policy framework of the Argentine federal government. The announced framework is a -- was originally brought forward as effectively a stimulus to initiate investments in -- particularly in mining investment into Argentina as part of the new incoming government. And the current framework has a date effectively in the middle of next year by which projects need to apply. So under the current framework, we would need to apply by the middle of next year if we wanted our project to be considered or any future project to be considered for RIGI. Now how the Argentine policy evolves towards investment frameworks, obviously, is in the hands of the Argentinian government. I don't want to speculate on how their policies may evolve, but we would look at what's happened in Argentina in the last year. I think RIGI has been a very successful framework from the perspective of the global mining investor community at attracting attention and activity into Argentina. And I would be very surprised if the Argentine government wanted to just suddenly, abruptly end what has been a very successful framework for them. And no doubt, they would seek to put in place subsequent investment framework policies that continue to position Argentina as a conducive environment because it's been a successful policy for them. I think we're largely running out of time now for questions. I would, of course, like to mention that if anybody has subsequent questions, you're very welcome to contact our Investor Relations group through e-mail or other means to put those questions to us. I'd like to take the opportunity to thank Jean-Baptiste and Fabien for joining me in the presentation today. And I'd like to thank the audience here in Salta and those of you who have joined us online. We're very proud of what we've delivered here at Centenario. Our focus is now on delivering value from the investment that's been made, but we think we've got something very exciting. We know there's a lot of people across the lithium industry watching us. We know there's a lot of people from across the Eramet shareholder base watching us, and we're very excited to see how things go from me going forward. So thank you very much to everybody, and I wish you all a very good day. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.