EVT Limited (EVT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the EVT Limited full year results call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Jane Hastings, CEO. Please go ahead.

Hi, everyone. Before we get started, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we're meeting today, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. I'd like to pay my respects to elders past and present, and I'd like to acknowledge any and all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people joining us today. Hi, everyone. Thanks to those of you who have come in person. It's always good to have people in the room as opposed to always being on technology. Kicking off. Look, we're really pleased with the recovery progress the group has made, achieving 34% year-on-year growth in group revenue to just under AUD 1.2 billion. Only 7.5% below the pre-COVID FY '19 year, excluding the AUD 63 million German Bridging Aid program income recognized last year. The continued recovery in the film lineup, combined with our premiumization strategy resulted in entertainment revenue up 21.4% on prior year, excluding the Bridging Aid income. The Hotels & Resorts division achieved a record full-year result on a like-for-like basis, adjusting for the closure of Rydges Melbourne, which was undergoing [Technical Difficulty]. For Thredbo, the benefits of the new business model underpinned by a record full -- underpinned a record full-year result, up 144% on prior year and up 37.5% on a pre-COVID FY '19. Despite unprecedented cost pressures, each of our businesses find ways to continue to manage the costs. Underlying unallocated costs were below FY '19 and the cost of compliance continues to grow, and we're also increasing our investment in sustainability initiatives. Group normalized EBITDA was up AUD 111.7 million, excluding prior year Bridging Aid income and record EBITDA results for Hotels and Thredbo. We updated the independent valuations for the majority of our property portfolio at 30 June and the overall portfolio value increased to around AUD 2.3 billion and like-for-like valuations up 20% on the previous valuations in 2021. It is important to reinforce that our property portfolio is largely unique in the fact that we operate these assets as Hotels and Thredbo. The fact that we continue to deliver strong operating results and valuations are holding up well in these sectors, both contribute to the growth in value. Early results from both the QT Gold Coast upgrade and Rydges Melbourne transformation are exceeding expectations, with a growing strong pipeline of business and excellent customer feedback via NPS scores. This year, we grew our hotel network by 8 hotels, and the results from our hotel strategy have more than offset the divestment property earnings relating to the AUD 282 million of asset sales. As announced in May, we completed the refinancing process. Our balance sheet remains very strong and net debt is well below pre-COVID levels, which positions us well for future growth. Based on the full-year results, the Board has declared a fully franked final dividend of AUD 0.20 per share following the special dividend of AUD 0.12 per share paid in November and interim dividend of AUD 0.14 per share paid in March. Our outlook for FY '24 is generally positive, and I'll comment more later in the presentation. Turning now to the full-year result. Normalized EBITDA was up AUD 187 million on the prior year, excluding Bridging Aid, with all divisions achieving strong growth on prior year. The underlying entertainment result was supported by more films, more good films released than prior year and our premiumization strategy. Whilst the release slate was better than prior year, there were still fewer films released than in FY '19 due to post-COVID studio production challenges, just delaying the global release dates. EBITDA for the Entertainment Group, up 70.9% on prior year, excluding Bridging Aid. The Hotels and Resorts result was a standout with EBITDA of AUD 87.4 million, a record for the division after adjusting for the closure of Rydges Melbourne. The Thredbo result was also a record, with the new business model delivering EBITDA of AUD 39.8 million, up AUD 23.5 million on the pre-COVID impacted prior year and up AUD 10.8 million on pre-COVID FY '19. The Property segment revenue was down AUD 900,000 to AUD 10.2 million, is primarily due to the successful property divestments of Canberra Civic and Double Bay in the prior year. Unallocated costs were impacted by short-term incentive payments relating to the financial year '22 and insurance premium increases, but underlying costs remained below FY '19. Individually, significant items totaled income of AUD 41.4 million and included the completion of the sale of Rydges North Sydney and the Darwin Cinema Centre, and previously announced settlement with Vue in relation to the CineStar transaction. Normalized PBIT was up 83% on prior year and reported net profit was only 1% below FY '19. We have a strong property portfolio, which, based on updated valuations, has increased to around AUD 2.3 billion. On a like-for-like basis, the portfolio value increased 20%. Given we also successfully divested AUD 282 million of non-core property assets in this period, it's a really pleasing result. We've also replaced divestment earnings with our new hotel strategy. We have a few other properties in the portfolio that we've identified as non-core assets, and we seek to divest these when market conditions are right and we can achieve a good outcome, but we're in no hurry. We acquired a number of properties in the year, aligned with our strategy to invest in key city locations that are or can be converted into operating assets. Acquisitions in the year totaled around AUD 60 million and included 54 Cook Street Auckland, which is our flagship LyLo Auckland property, the Limes Hotel in Fortitude Valley, Brisbane, which will be converted to a LyLo property later this year, the Alpenhorn Lodge in Thredbo, center for staff accommodation, and we increased our ownership interest in Rydges Latimer at 85%. Our major property developments continue to progress. As previously indicated, the first of our major developments is the 525 George Street opportunity. This is a mixed-use 43-storey development, truly integrated hospitality and entertainment offer, which will be unique in Australia, if not internationally. The development comprises of prime George Street retail, a premium event cinema, a QT hotel with conference space and residential apartments, which are intended to be sold-off the plan to assist in funding the project. The Stage 2 DA was approved in May 2023, which is a major milestone for this project. And this year, this financial year, we are preparing to go to market for construction tenders, which we aim to complete by July 2024. In relation to the 458-472 George Street property development, we secured the DA approval for the podium component, which is essentially the extension of the QT hotel. We've made the strategic decision to withdraw our Stage 1 DA for a commercial office tower at the stage. Aligned with our property strategy, we've commenced planning for a hotel tower above the podium and aim to prepare a DA submission in FY '24. As part of our strategic goal to maximize our assets, we completed a complete transformation of Rydges Melbourne. And if you haven't been there yet, you must go down and take a look. It sets a new standard for the Rydges brand, including the introduction of 25 apartment room types and extending the conference area by over 1,000 square meters. As indicated, when we closed this property for a renovation, it previously contributed around AUD 15 million EBITDA. Given the property was closed for a year, it's expected to take a few years for earnings to stabilize. AUD 15 million. Yes. The QT Gold Coast upgrade of rooms was completed in the first half, and we completed the conferencing in the second half, and it's already been recognized at the Queensland Hotel Association Awards as the Best Meeting & Events Venue. We introduced qtQT, a new cabin concept and a previously non-revenue generating of the area of the hotel. And like Rydges Melbourne, we traded through this upgrade and have experienced significant growth in average rates of about AUD 100. LyLo Auckland opened in December 2022 to rave reviews, and we've seen really strong demand for that property, so much so that we're adding more pods to the top floor of the building. We upgraded key cinema locations, Chermside, Innaloo and Queensgate with our new premium cinema concepts and they immediately started to deliver an increase in AAP and spend per head. We're confidently planning for the future growth investments in cinemas, including upgrading around 40 auditoriums this year. This includes opening IMAX Sydney, which should open by the end of October. ScreenX, the 270-degree immersive cinema experience, which opened last week in Robina and we plan to open another one in Sydney and 2 more 40 X screens. In hotels, we'll convert the Limes Hotel in Brisbane to Australia's first LyLo. We aim to complete the upgrade of rooms at QT Wellington. We're converting conference space at Atura Adelaide Airport into a new micro rooms concept, and we'll continue our planning for QT Canberra and Rydges Queenstown upgrades. Thredbo premiumization includes the Alpine Coaster opening in time for winter 2024. We'll also be submitting the Thredbo Golf Course development DA, investing more on snowmaking upgrades and opening 3 new mountain biking trails. We expect capital investment of around AUD 165 million in FY '24, excluding any acquisitions. Now turning to hotels. We're very pleased with the record result for the Hotels division. We achieved EBITDA growth of 228% on prior year and like-for-like EBITDA growth on pre-COVID of 8.5% after adjusting for the closure of Rydges Melbourne. All of our brands contributed to this result, outperforming the market and maintaining strong guest sentiment. Demand from key segments improved, including the benefit from the post-COVID leisure boom, corporate, government and conference and events with the international market growing, but international crew business segments were below pre-COVID levels. Pleasingly, we've seen really strong growth in direct online bookings, and we now receive more direct online bookings than through online travel agents. Margin in our QT and Atura-owned hotels was up on FY '19, whilst Rydges margin was down slightly due to the temporary closure of Rydges Melbourne. In terms of our key hotel brands, occupancy is still recovering to pre-COVID levels, with occupancy in the mid- to high 70s compared to around 80% pre-COVID. Each of our brands achieved record room rates and RevPAR. Rydges' RevPAR was up 20.5% on pre-COVID levels despite the closure of Rydges Melbourne. QT RevPAR was up 10.5% on pre-COVID, and Atura delivered a fantastic result with RevPAR up 40.6% on pre-COVID levels. The yellow line on this chart represents pre-COVID FY '19 occupancy. And as you can see, occupancy levels are getting closer to pre-COVID, particularly in the peak trading months of October, November and March. The post-COVID boom blip in domestic travel appears to be normalizing to pre-COVID levels. Demand for corporate travel is also normalizing to pre-COVID levels, and we've seen an acceleration in conference and events segment with strong forward bookings and inquiry levels above FY '19. International inbound numbers remained below pre-COVID. However, we expect this should continue to normalize over the course of FY '24, given the recent announcement from the Chinese government that Australia has been included in a list of countries for China's approved destination status. Recovery in airline capacity is also a factor. As discussed, we've also achieved record rate growth to well above pre-COVID levels. As with the previous slide, the yellow line represents pre-COVID FY '19 average room rates. All brands contributed to this. We're starting to see a little market discounting on shoulder days being Sunday and Thursday nights. Other nights, rates are holding up well. Whilst international inbound rates from the China market were historically below market, we've seen good growth in rates from other international markets like Vietnam. Special events are and continue to be a key driver of rate growth, and we're seeing that customers are willing to accept high rates at times of peak demand. Overall, we're aiming to hold rates in FY '24 as the market continues to normalize. As you know, our hotel expansion strategy has evolved over the past few years to provide more opportunities for growth. We now have a hotel solution that meets the needs of the entire hotel market from premium to budget experiences, whether you're leveraging one of our own brands or maintaining an independent brand and leveraging our capabilities. Our owned brands include QT Hotels, which is recognized as a leader in premium boutique experiences and is now 10 hotels. Rydges has grown to 44 hotels. We've set a new standard for the Rydges brand with the Melbourne upgrade. And we're already seeing that leverage this year by welcoming The Tank Stream Hotel Sydney, which will be relaunched as Rydges Australia Square in mid-2024. Atura, our affordable design-led brand has 5 hotels and the LyLo brand, our new innovative lifestyle budget accommodation experience is now in Auckland, Christchurch and Queenstown and next stop is the Limes Hotel in Brisbane. We are also assessing the opportunity to convert some underutilized land that we own beside QT Gold Coast and to a flagship LyLo property. In 2021, we launched the Independent Collection by Event. The Independent Collection tiers provide flexibility to ensure we have an option for all hotel experiences, and this has grown to 17 hotels. In the financial year, we've secured the 414-room stunning Rydges Hunter Valley Resort, a great one for the group and achieved in conjunction with an extension of key management agreements for the Rydges World Square and Rydges Sydney Central properties. We also added Rydges King Square Perth, Rydges Darling Square Sydney, Rydges Rotorua, Hotel Alba Adelaide, Hotel Totto Wollongong, Limes Hotel Brisbane and LyLo Auckland. So, we're really pleased with how the hotel strategy is progressing. Now turning to Thredbo. I like saying record, and I hope we can continue using that word. We achieved a record result supported by our new business model. The new business model means better capacity utilization, which results in a premium customer experience with shorter queues and more time for customers to spend on the mountain doing what they're there to do. EBITDA was AUD 39.2 million, up 309.6% adjusted for AUD 6.2 million in property sales that occurred in the prior year. Thredbo has now been recognized for the sixth year in a row at the World Ski Awards as Australia's Best Ski Resort, which is an awesome achievement and credit to the team. Building on the EarthCheck Gold certification achieved in 2022, we announced Thredbo's 2026 Sustainability Goals last month, including targeted reductions in water usage and waste and the achievement of carbon-neutral certification by December 2026. Look, there were some non-recurring items that impacted these results, particularly the property sales in the prior year. So, we've presented adjusted numbers here, so you can get a better picture of what was happening. Winter was an all-time record with a 74% increase in yield compared to pre-COVID. Summer was definitely more challenging due to unprecedented winter conditions, including snow in November and February, unusually strong winds resulting in the inability to operate chairlifts. And that actually had our chairlifts close in our peak trading summer weekend at Easter. As a result, despite observing record summer days when we could operate, the overall conditions did not give us the results we could expect. We incurred increased costs in relation to insurance and seasonal R&M, which, if we were able to trade normally, we would have offset. We expect to return to EBITDA positive summer results if we see more favorable weather conditions this financial year. Essentially, if we can operate, we can deliver results. Now turning to entertainment. Entertainment Australia demonstrated recovery trends in the year with revenue up AUD 54.7 million and EBITDA up AUD 15.6 million on the prior year. Revenue was below pre-COVID levels due to studios needing to delay the release of key titles with post-COVID production constraints cited as the main reason. The delay in the film release slate was partially mitigated by our premiumization strategy. When we have blockbuster films, we're driving excellent results, including continued growth in average admit price and spend per head, both of which are well up on pre-COVID as you can see on the charts. Pleasingly, we've been able to largely maintain market share despite exiting 12 underperforming sites as part of our Fewer Best strategy. The top 10 films delivered in line with FY '19 and FY '23, included 2 of the top full films of all time, Top Gun and Avatar. It's good to note that the top 20 films delivered box office in line with pre-COVID, and this makes up about 60% of market box office. We experienced margin improvement 5 months of the year compared to like admission months. Also, we've seen all customer demographics return to cinemas, with our customer age profiles consistent with pre-COVID patens. Turning to New Zealand. Revenue was up 33% on prior year, adjusted for government wage subsidies. Avatar was a standout as now the highest grossing film of all time in New Zealand. We saw similar trends to those in Australia with really strong growth in AAP and spend per head compared to pre-COVID, as you can see from the charts. Excluding government wage subsidies in the prior year, EBITDA improved by AUD 2.1 million. As in Australia, we experienced margin improvement 5 months of the year compared to like admission months. Market share was strong, up 2.5 percentage points on the prior year. Turning now to Germany. The German result was really pleasing, with revenue up 26.5% and EBITDA up 137.9% on prior year, excluding the German government's Bridging Aid support recognized last year. As with New Zealand, Avatar performed incredibly well in Germany and is now the highest grossing title of all time in the German market. We're also pleased to see the return of local German film titles, which are an important contributor. They contribute around about 30% of box office in Germany. And the H1 release of the German production School of Magical Animals: Part 2 was in the top 5 releases in the year. We achieved growth in all key metrics, including average admit price up 12.8% and spend per head up 36% on pre-COVID levels. The AAP growth has been a little more modest in Germany, principally due to less premiumization. We are in the process of selectively investing in premiumization upgrades in Germany. And this year, we added 11 screens. The result for FY '23 includes around EUR 13 million of German government culture fund support. Partially offsetting this government support was the material impact from the energy cost increases. On a like-for-like screen basis, energy costs were EUR 5.5 million higher than the prior year. The German government have implemented an energy subsidy scheme, which helped mitigate some of that impact and continues to help mitigate some of that impact. Looking ahead to the FY '24 lineup. This slide shows you films that we expect or are estimated to exceed AUD 15 million at the Australian box office. I don't think any of you could have escaped the Barbie and Oppenheimer extraordinaire, which has enabled a really strong start to the year. That just goes to show you what happens when you have 2 really good films released at the same time. It was the best August on record for Australia, New Zealand and Germany. Later this year, we expect to look forward to blockbuster titles, including The Marvels, The Hunger Games and Aquaman. You will have all read that current -- of the current right is in active strikes in Hollywood, which has halted the creation and talent promotion of films. As a result of these strikes to date, we've had 3 key movies changed release dates beyond this financial year, Force of Nature: The Dry 2, Spider-Man: Beyond the Universe and the Marvel titled Kraven. We're in regular contact with the studios, and at this stage, have no further update on the delays because of the strikes. We expect the contribution from German films to return to the pre-COVID levels, and these films are not impacted by strike action. So many of you attended our Investor Day last year and will be very familiar with our strategy, 3 strategic goals: grow revenue above market; maximize our assets and business transformation. You can see from the full-year results that we've been able to grow revenue above market, driving higher yields through smarter pricing and utilization of capacity, whilst measuring and acting on customer feedback. The launch of EVT last year is helping us to better tell our story, including what we do and how we do it. We continue to maximize our assets and grow property values through the divestment of non-core properties, acquisitions, and recycling that capital and invest in priority locations through our premiumization strategy. Business transformation initiatives have assisted offsetting unprecedented cost increases, whilst also delivering material improvements in our culture, community efforts and environment initiatives. We've made strong progress with our environment initiatives this year, including completing waste audits for each division to set a baseline for end reduction target for FY '24, obtaining NABERS ratings for our Australian owned hotels and completing our Scope 3 boundary assessment to prepare for disclosing Scope 3 carbon emissions next year. Pleasingly, despite the growth in our hotel portfolio, our Scope 1 and 2 carbon emissions for FY '23 remain below our FY '19 baseline. The initiatives we are working on this year focus on us taking the appropriate steps across each of our various divisions and at different levels, but we carry the philosophy of every small step counts. In closing, I wanted to touch base on the outlook for the financial year. Overall, we expect growth in earnings on FY '23 and potential for recovery towards FY '19 levels. The Entertainment group's performance will be subject to, as always, the overall appeal and volume of good films released. Assuming current film release dates hold, we expect FY '24 to track ahead of FY '23 box office. Whilst we believe the recent writers and actors strikes will have a greater short-term impact on television and streaming services, we expect there to be some release date delays possibly into financial year '24-'25. It's too early to assess the impact of this as negotiations continue between both parties. Look, I think I do have to highlight that delays are issues we are pretty well versed at experiencing based on the COVID period and coming out of the COVID period. And we'll continue to adjust our business model as best we can to offset any impact. Towards the end of the year, CineStar Germany will be impacted by the Euro 2024 football tournament, which Germany is hosting next year. I'm going to say it again because it's important. The performance of Barbie and Oppenheimer demonstrates once again that audiences will visit cinemas in huge numbers and continue to spend more on each visit, despite the market commentary on pressured consumer spend. As mentioned earlier, we expect around to invest around AUD 165 million, excluding acquisitions in terms of capital expenditure. We're expecting another record year for hotels, including Rydges Melbourne, no pressure, Norm. He's sitting in the front row and leads hotels. In Thredbo, winter had a late start, warm weather patterns and an unusually high number of days with strong winds preventing key lifts from operating. We estimate the first quarter EBITDA to be broadly in line with the 2019 winter despite having much worse conditions on the mountain, such as only 50% of runs open versus 100% prior year and in 2019. In the summer, demand for mountain biking is expected to be good, subject again to weather conditions. Our balance sheet is strong, and we will support -- and supports our continued investment in our priority assets and growth opportunities. I want to take this opportunity to recognize and thank the EVT team for an exceptional year, and we look forward to another. Thanks for listening. I've got a short video to play, then we'll take questions in the room, and then we'll take questions on the online. Thanks. [Presentation]

Great. Welcome.

Any questions from the room?

Sorry to interrupt earlier. It's Nick from Barrenjoey. You've obviously sold more assets than you'd anticipated, which is great and net debt is looking good. I just wanted to get a sense of the earnings of that AUD 283 million because, I guess, when people look at pre-COVID and post-COVID, there's sort of not the same earnings base in terms of the assets. So, I was just curious on that.

So I think I alluded in the presentation that we've offset the earnings this year that we lost through that divestment process, but they weren't. We haven't given a range, but we've covered them moving forward.

And I guess they're at the lower end of your sort of return across the portfolio. That's why they were sold anyway.

Yes.

Maybe just a question as well on Melbourne. As that was shut down, what was the rough costs that was incurred, having that undergoing a refurbishment during the year?

Look, it wasn't material. I would say the cost of holding it while we're doing the refurbishment...

As in the operating loss.

Yes, yes. Look, it's not material, yes.

Yes. And then the AUD 15 million that's, I guess, you've indicated that, that might take 2 years to 3 years to get back to that level? Or you're saying to reach the kind of ROI target that you had on the money you spend there?

To reach our ROI target for the money we have spent on, I should clarify that. And the reason why it takes time is, if you think of a big conference, they booked 12 months in advance, so they're only getting to walk in and look at the facilities right now. So it just takes a while for a big conferencing hotel to build the C&E business back up.

Maybe just a question around Germany. You didn't remove other -- just the nature of the subsidies this year, I guess, to not exclude them from the comparison. Were they more a bit like our spend and say -- or sorry, the dine and discover vouchers here as opposed to a direct subsidy from the government? Is that why you didn't sort of adjust for them?

Look, they acted in that way. They were stimulant to get the market back into entertainment, et cetera. Yes. So that was just different. The reason why we've really disclosed the other German Bridging Aid was, A, the quantum of it, and B, it was related to a separate -- the prior financial year, so it completely distorted the results.

Right. And then going forward, you alluded to some energy subsidies, but is there anything else?

No.

Good results. It's Ed Woodgate from Jarden. Maybe just on the cinemas and the writers' strike shutdown. So appreciate, as you said, you've dealt with delays before. I guess maybe when you've had delays before, you've also had the offsetting factor of not being able to show those films, whereas I guess there might be a bit more blank space this time around. So just with the last one, last writers' strike going for 4 months and this one being about more serious issues and potentially going for a lot longer, like can you just talk through how you'll address that if it does end up being quite a long delay?

The reason why we can't provide much light on it until they actually conclude negotiations, it's like they're all holding their cards very close to their chest, right? So the studios aren't saying much about what their changes might be because they have a position they want to maintain against the -- or with the parties they're negotiating with. And the reason why it's hard to assess if there's any real gaps is because there may be other films that will move into those dates. So the release calendar may move around a little bit. What we're hearing is everyone wants to make money and everyone wants payback on films. So, they're going to want to release films as quickly as they possibly can. But it's impossible to go. Is there a complete gap in this month or in this quarter? Or what does that look like until we get firm details back? Because many of the films for this year are completed. So the reason for releasing may purely be because they don't want to release that film because they want talent to tour and promote the film. So that would be ready to go at a point in time. And then there are others where production has halted, but we're not quite sure how far down the track in that production area there are. And there are some which just aren't getting editing finished. So really, until we get -- until the negotiations are completed and the studios really look at their calendars and tell us what's going on, it's just too hard to forecast. But at this point in time, the industry is largely saying from what's known that it's probably more likely to be an FY '24-'25 impact, but we're yet to see.

Okay. Sure. That makes sense. And then maybe just on the property [indiscernible], which is pleasing to see. So, I guess we've seen with some ASX-listed REITs, there's been some pretty significant devaluations in rates, cap rate increases, some of the changes that you put through maybe a little bit more modest. And so I was wondering if you could just talk, provide some color to like the underlying basis there and the rationale there? But also specifically, I think in relation to the Queensland portfolio at the top end of the range, that came down from 13% to 8%. So just if you could call out maybe what was behind some of those bigger moves?

I'll let Greg talk to the detail. But broadly speaking, we're completely different to other groups that own a whole lot of commercial property or who are like ghost owners, right? They're not operating the asset. They're not able to generate additional value out of that asset. We divested our commercial property assets as part of the AUD 282 million, and we did that at a fortunate time. And so the majority of our portfolio now is Thredbo and high-quality hotel assets, which we operate, we can invest in, we can improve the performance of, as well as the value of that property. So that's really why we're probably looking different to other groups in terms of the makeup of our portfolio. But Greg, did you want to comment on the change in the Queensland?

I think we did point this out the last couple of reporting periods. The valuations that we had done at June 2021 were COVID impacted. So, I guess the key variable is that the valuers now have a bit more of a sort of a valid forecast, whereas previously, those forecasts were COVID impacted and there was a lot of, I guess, negativity around that. So that's been the big variable. The second thing, your question on the yields in Queensland, the big movements there have been little properties rather than little regional ones, which there is a lot volatility on. Generally, none of those key parameters in the valuations moved a lot between 2021 and now, but it's more around the forecast.

That was very helpful. And then just on the hotel side of things. So, I mean that's been great to see the room rates you've been able to put through. And you mentioned international travel is coming back. So maybe could you just remind us what the percentage of international travels are making up your visitations versus pre-COVID? And then this is just from a question from clients today. So, I just thought it was worth a little bit of color on it. The room rates were like declining. I think you touched on this already throughout the half. And just could you just touch on how much of that is just, say, seasonality from peak periods versus, say, the -- if there is any consumer weakness there?

Okay. So, I think we've previously commented that international circa 10% of our business. However, it's important to note that the recovery of the international market creates more demand overall for rooms. So it helps to obviously -- that demand helps to hold rates. Sorry, the second question was...

Just on the slide you had in relation to room rents through the half. It was like clear downward trends.

Yes. We think that's more normalizing. So, we've -- the corporate market was a little lighter in July, but we are seeing that recovering. We're seeing C&E is -- I mean, conference and events is a measure of corporate market spending, right, because it's corporates doing conference and events. And we're seeing strong growth and really strong forward bookings in that. So, we think there was just a little bit of typical normalized travels behavior coming through post-COVID, which impacted those rates. Norm, did you want to comment any further?

I'd only add that the rate actually is not a downward trend. If you look at the spread between what we're experiencing this year compared to FY '19, the period is typically a lower average rate in our industry. So, you've got October, November, February, March is where rates typically peak. And as you come into winter, it does traditionally slow down.

Did you have one more? Nope? Sorry.

And then just quickly, because you done such a good job with premiumization and getting yield out of the assets, is there -- out of the 3 divisions, which do you think really offers the most opportunity going forward? Is there any in particular or is it pretty evenly spread?

Look, we think that I would say, as we've alluded to, we want to try and hold rates in hotels. And I think cinemas has more room to grow, and I think Thredbo has more room to grow.

Jane, it's Ben here from [ Hydra ]. Just wanting an update on the German cinema business as to the sale. Is anything still ongoing there? Or is that dead in the water now?

So the previous sale process has ended, and that was part of the individually significant items, the settlement with Vue. And at this point in time, our focus is on getting that business back and running. But we have alluded to the fact that at a point in time in the future, we would look to divest that asset.

I'm back. Management rights revenues were AUD 30 million. Can you just speak about the businesses push into that area? And maybe it's a question for Greg. But how much cost exists beneath that revenue to keep that operation going?

Okay. And I can even help you add a little bit, Greg, and then I'll hand it to you. So AUD 30 million here recorded in management fees, and that's a result of us now having a strategy whereby we've got the Independent Collection, as well as we have solutions for every part of the market. So that is an area that we want to continue to grow, and it's one of our strategic priorities in terms of expansion of that footprint in an intelligent way. In terms of costs that sit under that, look, with the Independent Collection, it's about leveraging existing capabilities. So it's not -- there is a point of leverage is what we're trying to say underneath that revenue. Did you want to comment any more, Greg?

No, I think that's it. But Nick, like, obviously, there are key main components to management agreements or some management agreements. And as Jane sort of says, an individual management agreement can come with very little incremental costs, if that's what you're looking for.

Yes. [indiscernible].

No, it'd be born in the hotels with the existing portfolio. Yes.

No further questions in the room? I open to take questions on online.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from Brian Han from Morningstar.

Jane, just 2 questions, if I may. On hotels, you say occupancy is 5.5 percentage points below pre-COVID. Does international visitors explain all of those shortfall? Or do you need some other factors to get back to that pre-COVID level?

There are other segments like crew, but it's probably like mobilizing international business. It's probably another part of that market. So there's -- yes, I would say it's primarily international and crew segments of the market. And we're seeing that corporate was still recovering in that.

Okay. Great. And of the AUD 165 million you guided for CapEx this year, would you be able to separate the percentage that could be attributed to premiumizing your facilities?

Our entire strategy is premiumization. So, we use that word across Thredbo hotels and cinemas. So have we alluded to kind of stay in business levels? No, we haven't. I'm just looking at Greg shaking his head. So, I think the answer is no. Sorry, Brian.

Fair enough. Perhaps one more, Jane. Can you remind us what was the impact of the Euro tournament on the German business last time around?

Well, I'm not very helpful for you. Sorry, Brian. But that's a very difficult question to answer because it depends on whether the tournament is played in Germany, it depends on what's releasing at that point in time and it depends on how hot summer is. So it has -- I think you can look back in formal presentations to get a feeling for it. But every year is a new year because it depends on what's releasing and the other factors around it. I think we're just alluding to the fact that if the sun is shining and the football is on, the German market like to be outside enjoying that for that period of time.

[Operator Instructions]. There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand the conference back to your speakers.

Yes, I think we've got one further question from you, Nick. Okay. Good. Save some for tomorrow.

Yes, we'll do. Just in terms of sites still for sale, the property presentation is really useful. But there seems to be a lot of stuff there that hasn't got new branding, doesn't look like it's being premiumized. Are there still sites that you're looking to divest?

There are. And we alluded to the fact that we have 3 properties in Germany. And so really what we might fall -- sorry, what we might think about with those properties would be tied up with our strategy for Germany. Rydges Rotorua, which is called the Te Arawa Park in that presentation, that's an asset that we would look to divest at the right time. And potentially looking at Hobart. So I think that's another asset in that presentation that we are looking at.

Sorry. And the regional cinemas?

Yes, and the regional cinemas.

With those, there's a couple of things -- there's a couple of properties, 3 properties in the available-for-sale line in the balance sheet at 30th of June. And 2 of those are those smaller regional cinemas in Mackay and Townsville, but also Snowdrift Lodge in Falls Creek.

Just one last one. Are you able to call out the approximate valuation associated with those excess properties?

We've kind of given a range that all of them come within the range of divested around AUD 100 million, including Germany. Yes. I Said that.

Yes. The available for sale have a fair value listed in the notes. [indiscernible] Not the additional ones. We're not going to split those out, but the available for sale ones is a smaller one. You can sort of see the fair value that's in the notes.

One more. It's probably a question for Matt. Just in terms of the DA change above us, where we see it right now, just the reasons for moving away from commercial and what you envision for a hotel and what the scope of that would be?

I can answer that. It's purely a strategic reason. Our property strategy is to invest in key city assets that can be or are converted into operating assets. And it was always an option. But just at the time of the project, we started, we were looking at commercial, and that seemed the right plausible strategy at that point. But the scheme that we are currently developing for a hotel makes sense for us at this point in time. And we don't have -- outside of 525, key cities, Sydney hotel assets are very rare. And so that's why we've decided strategically to move in that direction. It will be a smaller footprint, but we're working through that at this point in time. Did you want to comment further, Matt? No. Okay. All good. Okay. Thank you, everyone.