Exor N.V. (EXO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi, everyone, and a warm welcome to here -- today here in Turin with us. And I would also like to welcome who isn't with us and particularly hoping that who's in the U.S. had a good Thanksgiving weekend. It's been 2 years since we last met. As you know, we have every 2 years a gathering for our Investors Day to give you an idea of what has happened in the last 2 years and more importantly, share with all of you what we want to do in the years to come. So where we'd like to start with today is really where we left you in 2019, which was an indication of what we would have wanted to achieve over the next decade. And so we're 2 years into the next decade. As you recall, 2019 was the first decade of Exor and really dividing it by companies, which is where most of our capital is invested. Investments, which are activities that we were able to start as we both PartnerRe. And finally, financials, which are really the metrics on which we measure our performance. And back then, we also described how important it was for us the ESG theme and what we would have developed in the years to come. So today, we really want to go into these areas, speak to you about our companies, our investments, our financials, what we've done on ESG and share with you what is next. I'd like to start by this page, which is really a summary of what Exor is about. We are a company that has more than 100 years, which has been building companies for now more than a century. And last time when we met, we wanted to be very clear about our purpose, which is building great companies and being clear what it meant to build and what it meant great. We also wanted to be clear about how we did it, which was through the application of our values. And our values are all important. And the first one is very relevant for us, as all of them, but particularly at the moment we are living through, which is humility and ambition. So humility, staying grounded, but being ambitious to build great companies. We also wanted to make sure that our culture, which is a combination of entrepreneurial spirit and financial discipline is very important. And what is important is to get the balance right. And that is achieved through people, which is something that today, we really want to make sure that comes across. If we look at our companies, the last 2 years have been difficult for all of us. And our companies have lived through the very difficult crisis that we went through, and we're still in. What I liked -- what I wanted to do here was to give you an idea of what happened with these 3 companies. If you take the aggregate value of these 3 companies, they represent 2/3 of our gross asset value. [Foreign Language] CNHI Industrial. And these 3 companies acted very quickly. They acted very quickly in making sure that everyone who worked in the company was protected and made sure that the companies were protected. It also required changes in leadership. And with the Board of these companies, Suzanne and myself had to take on responsibilities as acting CEOs. We wanted to make sure that as we navigated the crisis and we made sure that the companies were protected, we also build the future. And as we went through this period and the last 2 years since we last met you, these companies have all been developing important step forwards for their future under new leadership having appointed new CEOs. What I'd like to do is really now pass it to Suzanne, who when we met in 2019, spoke to you about CNHI. And a lot has happened that she's lived firsthand since then. But before doing that, what this page here wants to illustrate is the seriousness of the commitment that our companies had during the crisis, the COVID-19 crisis. We really wanted to address what was happening in 2 ways: prioritizing where we could be of help to the health care system that, as you remember, were in great difficulties; and subsequently to that, try and come and help with different initiatives around the communities in which we operate where there was more need.

Thank you, John. So what we want to do was to just illustrate a little bit what's happened over the last 2 years by telling you the story of what happened with CNH. And as John described, alongside our other big industrial companies, it had to get its way through the COVID crisis, which was quite a major challenge. What we said to you when we met back in 2019, we actually presented CNH as a case study when we met then. And we said that we've done 3 things. First of all, we'd help the management at the time develop its 5-year plan, which we Exor had supported; we said that we supported the proposal to spin the company into 2 parts, which CNH had announced in its 2019 Capital Markets Day with our support; and we'd strengthened and empowered the Board. We've actually done some Board transition. We'd shrunk the size of the Board. We'd made the Board more effective. What then happened, of course, was the COVID crisis. And during the COVID crisis, as John said, I had to step in for a while as acting CEO, with the management team we gave ourselves 3 primary challenges or 3 primary objectives on the left-hand side of this page. The first one and the most important one was keeping people safe, making sure that we could close down, we ended up having to close down all of our plants across the world, and then we had to open them all back up again, and we had to do that in a way which kept everyone safe. And when they were reopened, they were reopened with all of the COVID protocols. We had to make sure that we have business continuity. So a huge amount of work was done around looking at where all the R&D was being spent, whether that was effective. We looked very extensively at things like the actual footprint of the company, whether there were opportunities there. We looked at all of the different kind of costs going out of the company, decreased them relatively significantly. All of that meant that the company ended the year with a lot of liquidity with very good free cash flow. So in a strong position from a business continuity point of view. And the third thing that we did was we worried about the wider network that CNH operates within because there was no point in getting CNH through this crisis in a strong way, if we didn't also take our dealers with us. So CNH sells to end customers through its dealers, and if we didn't do it working very closely with our suppliers. And of course, what has happened since has emphasized even more the importance of working very closely with our suppliers. So we spend a lot of time supporting both suppliers and dealers as we went through the crisis. However, it was very important for us at Exor and for the company not to lose focus on those priorities that we talked about back in 2019, even though the time scale for those has obviously changed a little bit. So that meant that we kept on focusing on technology. Some of the initiatives that we have, for example, with Nikola around battery trucks and around fuel cell electric vehicles. A lot of work we've been doing around decarbonizing agriculture, methane tractors and so on. We've also continued to make investments. So we actually completed the Raven acquisition that was completed today, which is great, but we made a whole series of other acquisitions, which are important to strengthen the company and get the company ready for the future, both on the agriculture side and on the on-road side. And finally, we kept on investing in people. So first of all, we helped people work from home as many organizations did, but also we launched a big new push on diversity and inclusion, which has been a real priority during this period, alongside getting through the COVID crisis. And that continues to be a big priority for the management as it goes forward into the future. And it was really something that we accelerated during COVID. So that's what CNH did. What that means is that the company now is ready to do what we talked about in 2019, a little bit later, but still the same basic plan, which is to spin the company into 2 halves. So on the top half of the page, we have what will be the future of CNH Industrial. So on the left-hand side, you have the agriculture part the -- which encompasses the brands, the CASE brand, the New Holland brand, the Steyr brand. It's a very strong company with some very interesting brands, very interesting technologies. That company also encompasses the construction business, the CASE Construction business and the New Holland Construction business, where we've had a new acquisition just to strengthen that portfolio. And that company will be led by Scott Wine, who currently leads the overall company, and you can see the size of it on the right-hand side. The second company, which we'll spin out is IVECO Group. And IVECO group consists broadly of 3 main parts. First of all, the bus company, then the truck company. We also have a defense business, and we have an engines business, and that's going to be led by Garrit Marx. And you can see somewhat similar in terms of revenues, similar in terms of the number of employees. The work that we continued during COVID really has enabled the company to get back to this plan and to do this spin. And the logic for the spin which was laid out by the company very, very clearly in the 2019 Capital Markets Day still, we believe, remains very strong. And we've made it clear from an Exor point of view that we support the spin, which is due to take place now in very, very early January. And we look forward to seeing both of those companies become part of the Exor portfolio from the start of next year.

We also added to our companies in the last 2 years. We made 4 acquisitions in different companies, 2 of which are 21st century companies, Via and Shang Xia. And we are very present in all of these companies with positive tractions in where they are and where they want to go. Louboutin is the latest, and it's very aligned with our purpose and our values. And that was very interesting how it resonated with the founders and the management team as we were walking through what our purpose was and how we operated. And that made it very clear how the way in which our culture operates and with whom it can operate is a distinctive feature we have and is one of value for our companies and the people who work in them. The latest announcement that we had was the sale of PartnerRe to Covéa. We are working very hard with Covéa to get to a signing by the end of the year as we have announced. You can see how the terms are similar to the ones that we had agreed back in 2020. And for me, what is important today is really sharing with you how one needs to stay firm to his principles, but at the same time, open to maintain relationships. And what we were able to establish with Covéa despite we didn't go ahead was a working relationship and one that was very positive, and that led to the outcome. That is a good outcome for PartnerRe, a good outcome for Covéa and a good outcome for Exor. So we are very confident and having spoken today also with the leadership team of Covéa and working with the leadership team of PartnerRe to be able to sign by the end of the year and close in the first half of 2022. What this has also allowed us is to build investment capability and be able to deploy capital in investments. And I'm happy to have here today also in addition to Suzanne and Enrico, whom you know also Matteo, Nikhil and Noam, which have all responsibilities in today, the 3 pillars of our investments that we manage directly in private markets, which are led by Nikhil; in public markets, which are led by Matteo; and in the early and late-stage opportunities, which are led by Noam, and we will have a particularly strong zoom on seeds today. I'm also pleased about the alliances, and we have made an alliance with Nuo. These are alliances where we don't directly invest, but we do it with a partner. And we have here with us today also Tommaso, I'm happy is -- can be with us, and I also would like to congratulate him on the announcement of the first investment in [ Monturra ], which is exactly in line with what the scope of Nuo is, which are high-end consumer brands based in Italy with a high potential of development globally. What we really want from our investments are returns, and we are targeting double-digit returns. And we have been able to build, thanks to our colleagues, our partners who are here today, the possibility of deploying capital in different strategies in different sectors, in different geographies. And we are doing it for financial returns, but we also believe that they do add to Exor as a whole in terms of additional insight that they provide, but also the opportunity of creating opportunities for us. And this is exactly what we would also like to talk to you about today with Noam who will present seeds. And we also have with us later Daniel Ramot, who is one of the co-founders and CEO of Via, which is exactly an example of how a dialogue that started early on, a seed investment has led to Exor and Via becoming more closely joined and Via one of Exor's companies.

Thank you, John. So 4 years ago, we initiated launch Exor seeds, realized it was really important for Exor to partner with entrepreneurs and founders earlier in the life cycle of the company. We're doing this both at the early stage and at the late stage. I think even though we don't have much time, it's always exciting to have an opportunity to say a word about the entrepreneurs and founders themselves. At the earlier stage where we come in typically at the seed or Series A, we back, for example, Bo Jiang, who is the founder of Lithic. Met Bo when he was a young graduate from MIT from applied math, was very humble, but very ambitious, might resonate with some of the things you heard earlier about our values. And he was passionate about building software for payment. And we were here very early today. Lithic is an important payment company that is at a very high valuation. And we've been backing them along the way. On the later stage, you also have a few examples here where we really want these more mature companies, we are -- we care about the metrics already and financial and commercial traction. An example here is [ Gazavo ] which some of you might be familiar with [ Georgeo Tinashe ], the founder. We saw really his ambition to build a European champion. And leading really this transformation in digital real estate or rather the digital transformation of real estate, disrupting the way that we all can buy and sell homes in Europe today because that was in 8 cities, in 3 countries, and we're very, very excited by the future. A word about portfolio composition. We've invested in 53 companies better focus on mobility, fintech and health care, which you can see reflected here in the sector exposure. Still a high conviction portfolio, as you can see from the concentration of our core positions. We expect to do more in health care in the future. We think it's an important sector and we think that seeds can bring some of these talented founders to Exor. Via is a good example of how seeds can play a role beyond seeking the financial returns backing these early-stage founders. We built a relationship with the co-founders over many years, had the opportunity to back them multiple rounds. And in December 2019, we really committed to lead the Series E with a $200 million investment and subsequent investments. What matters a great deal for us in this type of high conviction bet is the alignment with the founders. And from a value standpoint, purpose standpoint. And here, this alignment was really obvious to us. That is probably a good segue to introduce Daniel Ramot, who is the Co-Founder and CEO of Via. Daniel had a prior life. He has a PhD in neuroscience from Stanford, and he was also leading super computer for drug discovery at the [ Shaw ], and he is now going to tell us a bit more about how he's transforming and creating really a new category of what is called TransitTech. I think Daniel is having connectivity problems.

Daniel, can you hear us?

I can hear you guys. Can you hear me okay?

Loud and clear.

Great. Unfortunately, in perfect time, Spectrum in New York lost Internet at my home. So I rushed down to the office downtown, and I'm all set to go. So very nice to meet everybody. I'll just speak for a few minutes about Via and what we do around the world. I'm happy to take a couple of questions as well. If we can jump to the next slide. We at Via, about 10 years ago, launched on a journey to create a new category that we refer to as TransitTech similar to healthtech, fintech and so forth that you folks are, I'm sure, familiar with. The vision here is to transform an industry that has been really immune, one might say, almost insulated from technology, which is the public transportation industry. And I want to walk you through a few examples of what it is that we do for the public transportation industry. So if we can jump to the next slide. Fundamentally, we digitized public transportation systems. For example, we take bus systems that run, as you can see on the left here, on fixed routes and fixed schedules, very rigid and we transform them into dynamic shuttles that can be booked on an app on demand where the routes are determined in real time based on data and the locations of passengers as they're requesting rides. So instead of having buses that run on fixed routes. We have a collection of dynamic vans, mini vans, mini buses that are all routed by our algorithm. And as you can see here on the right, that can lead to significant improvements in efficiency and of course, in quality of service. I think what's really nice to see is -- this is a map on the bottom of Jersey City, the city just across the river from Manhattan. You can see the bus route map on the left on the bottom and then in the middle of this peak map that shows where people are traveling using our system. And what we see here is that when you give people the option to use public transportation outside of the traditional bus system, they use it to travel all over the city and in particular, which is really nice, to connect to the existing fixed route transportation system, what's known as a first last mile solution that drives increased adoption of public transportation overall. So this is one way in which we did to [ site ] public transportation systems. We take fixed route bus systems and transform them into dynamic on-demand shuttle systems. If we can jump to the next slide. We have taken the same technology and applied it to the school bus system, the traditional yellow school bus system, for example, in the United States. We provide software for the New York City Department of Education to power more than 10,000 buses, allowing parents in real time to track where their bus is for students using a QR code to scan on and off the bus so that parents and schools can know where the students are and also reroute the buses in a way that's data-driven and far more intelligent than the current routing with the potential to save the city hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of the contract. We're really transforming what is an experience for students that hasn't changed in decades into a digital, I believe, modern experience. If you go to the next slide, you can see what we're doing in the paratransit space. Paratransit is a parallel system of transportation that exists to support folks with disabilities and mobility challenges, typically serving some of our most vulnerable residents with, frankly, some of the worst service out there. Reservations have to be made by phone, 24 to 48 hours in advance. Usually, the passenger has no idea where their vehicle is, and they're given a 30-minute even potentially longer window to wait for the vehicle. We're again using technology in our software stack to completely transform that experience so that for these passengers, it feels like taking an Uber. And that's a real transformation in their quality of life. And you can see the quote there on the bottom right, we do believe we're having a real impact on some of the people who need technology most and often don't get access to it. And lastly, in the next slide, we are using technology to help cities and transit authorities plan their systems better, whether it's their streets, where they should have protected bus lanes or bike ride -- protected bike lanes or bus lanes, how to plan the fixed route transit system and the on-demand transit system, that shuttle system that I referenced in the beginning. So if we move to the next slide. Our overall vision and those were just some examples of how we are achieving it is to build a digital infrastructure, not a physical infrastructure, but a digital one that transforms the way that we move around the built environment, whether urban, suburban or rural. We're doing on-demand transportation as I showed, school buses, paratransit. We're helping cities plan the network and their infrastructure, and we're moving into managing autonomous fleets, even things like controlling access into the system, congestion pricing or road use charging as it's now referred to. All the way in the end, our vision involves controlling the traffic lights themselves. So we can manage right of way. If we have a bus that's got 50 people on it coming down the street, perhaps we would like to give that bus priority over a car with one passenger. And if we jump to the next slide, we have deployed our software in over 500 with over -- as we refer to them, 500 partners. These are cities, transit authorities, transportation operators, universities, corporations, they're all our customers in 38 countries around the world today. And as we go to the next slide, you can see some of the ways that our partners are using our software. So as I mentioned, it's -- we provide a platform. This is a Software-as-a-Service business model. And some examples here of how our partners are deploying that platform to support their unique transportation needs. And on the next slide, we have the impact. What is it that we are helping our partners do everything from reducing their cost per trip, meaningfully increasing access, significant increases in ridership. It turns out that when you give people good public transportation that works with good visibility, they use it. And in fact, they flock to it and we see that everywhere where our system is deployed around the world. And lastly, these are some examples of what we are doing to support our partners. This is the ROI, if you will, the return on investment for our customers. In the next slide, we have an example of the return on investment, if you will, for the planet or for society. We do believe that our technology not only helps reduce single passenger trips and therefore, reduce greenhouse gas emissions. But perhaps equally importantly, it provides access to people who otherwise don't have access to transportation. In Birmingham, Alabama as an example, prior to launching our service, only 10% of the jobs were accessible by public transportation in under 30 minutes. After we launched 90% of the jobs were accessible by public transportation in under 30 minutes. We believe this is real impact, true impact that we're having in the cities in which our software is deployed and that is resonating with our customers and with cities around the world, and they are seeking to deploy our platform quite rapidly. And in this next slide, I will say that we are very focused on building a great company. And we feel that, that is a very strong alignment with Exor's mission, as you all know. We are on a multi-decade journey. This is just the end of our first decade, one of many to build the digital infrastructure for transportation. And we have greatly valued Exor support throughout our journey. Whether it was during COVID, when times were tough, they were a great partner. They're right alongside us alignment with our vision. And the fact that Exor is a values-driven company that supports building great companies, which is exactly what we're here to do, resonates with us very strongly and was a key factor in our decision and hopefully in Exor's decision to partner with us. So we're very grateful to the support and very pleased to be partnering with John and the Exor team. Thank you all for being with us all these years, and we're looking forward to working together for several more decades to build a truly great company. So thank you very much, and I'll stop here.

So are we, Daniel. I know you have to run, to build Via into a great company, but I'm sure there are questions that -- or who's here physically or virtually might have.

Great. I can answer any questions that folks might have.

We have one.

Should we take the slide off then I'll be able to see the route. Would that be possible or...

Any change provokes resistance, what resistance did you meet?

Good question. So there's no coincidence that this is -- as I put it upfront. It was a journey and that has taken a decade. We started -- when we started the business, this was our vision. Our vision was -- Oren my co-founder and I had the idea that software could greatly benefit public transportation. But in the early days, that vision, unfortunately was not shared by nearly, if not all, nearly all cities and transport authorities that we spoke with. There was tremendous skepticism, one, about the ability to run public transportation in anything other than just buses and trains. And secondly, the idea that technology could be a force for efficiency and for progress versus just a cost center was foreign to transit agencies. Many transit agencies, when you look at their budget reports from several years ago, they will say things like we are more efficient than other transit agencies because we spend proportionately less on technology than they do on IT. So IT was considered a cost center. And there were several barriers like this that we had to overcome. And the way we approached it was we said, okay, if you don't want to adopt our software, if you don't want to try it, we will go launch it ourselves. And we launched services in New York and Washington, D.C. and other cities running our own dynamic shuttle service. And it took several years to demonstrate that this was truly a mass transit system that transit port authorities and cities should consider it. And once we broke through with that first city -- cities and transport -- government authorities in general are quite risk-averse. But in our experience, once one or several of them adopt the system and they're happy with it, then the rest follow very quickly, and that's sort of what we've seen. And that's been a really great trajectory over the last couple of years.

Daniel, one question that has come from our virtual audience is who are Via's competitors and how does Via's business model work?

Yes. So I'll start maybe with the second piece. We provide our -- as I mentioned, we provide our software. We have one stack that offers our customers all of those different options that I showed earlier, whether it's a school bus solution or a microtransit as it's known, on-demand transit solution or paratransit or planning solution. And we offer that as a service. So Software-as-a-Service is our core business model. In some cases, we also provide services to support that. So if we are partnering with a city that doesn't have its own vehicles and drivers, we will support that city through third parties. We have an ecosystem of third parties that we can connect with that city so that they can find the drivers and the vehicles that they need. For example, we partner with Avis. That's one of our largest partners to provide vehicles. We have several other partners. So the model is fundamentally a SaaS model with some services added into it to enable and accelerate adoption. We don't believe we have any single meaningful competitor. The type of competition we face really depends on the vertical. In micro transit or on-demand transit, we are the leader. We created this category. There are several small start-ups that attempt to compete with us, but we feel very comfortable with our competitive position. In verticals like paratransit, where there are existing software providers, legacy providers who are incumbents, we are usually the disruptor coming in with new technology. And there, the competition looks a little bit different, but we typically also have seen quite good success in the last year or so as our software gains traction. There's a pretty big gap between the legacy software that's out there, far more modern cloud-based, mobile-first software that we are providing.

And one last question, Daniel. What is the current stance of authorities on you potentially controlling the traffic light? Are there any examples already available?

So the traffic light is a bit of -- controlling traffic lights is on the one hand, the [ beginning ] of a long-term vision. On the other hand, there is, of course, software that cities use -- even if you go to the control center, for example, for London, of transport for London. They do control and have the ability to manage the traffic light systems, both the settings of them and then in real time, intervene. Certainly, we've all seen that in action films where the bad guys take over the traffic systems and cause all sorts of havoc. So there's precedent for software that allows traffic lights to be controlled. What isn't typically connected to very efficiently is the real-time traffic that's flowing through the city and in particular, considerations of right of way. This is the right of way decision, who gets to go when and how much does everybody have to wait? How do you sort of route, if you will, just like an Internet packet? How do you think about routing. And I think those problems could benefit from far more advanced algorithms that take into consideration things like societal benefits, greenhouse gas emissions and other considerations. That's not currently in the way these systems are built, but we do believe that there's opportunity to do something really interesting.

Thank you.

My pleasure. Thanks very much. Thanks for having me. Been an honor, and see you all soon in person some time. Bye everybody.

Good afternoon, everyone. In terms of our performance, Exor has delivered a very strong performance, both in terms of cumulative performance and in compound annual growth rate. The performance since 29 (sic) [ 2009 ] to date has been positive for 1,500% in terms of Exor TSR. And in terms of compound annual growth 24%. We compare our performance with the MSCI World Index, our benchmark that has been positive for 404%. And as we are listed in Europe with EuroStoxx50. As you can see in the slide, our performance has been positive and above our benchmark. In terms of that, the amount of gross debt at the end of the year 2021 has been -- is estimated in EUR 4.5 billion. We will continue to manage actively our debt trying to maximize, optimize both the source of financing. As you know, we use both private placement and public bonds and bank debt and also in terms of maturities. It's always very important for us to keep a very strong rating and will remain one of our targets also in the future. In terms of our objective [indiscernible] outperform MSCI World Index. This has always been our target and will continue also in the future. We have also other KPIs, which you can find in the slides, the free cash flow on dividend paid, cash holding cost compared to our GAV and the loan-to-value ratio. We manage our activity -- our KPIs and our objective, and we compare our return and performance to our targets, fixed targets and also to the peers. As you see in the slide, our performance has been in line with better than the target and above our peer.

Thank you very much, Enrico. So we wanted to come back to something, which on the earlier slide, John said back in 2019 was going to be one of our priorities for the next 10 years. And that was to define our approach to ESG. And indeed, over the last 2 years since we last spoke to you, we have been doing that through COVID and before COVID. We wanted to make sure that we'd really spent time thinking about this before we came back to and explained how we were going to do it. And I should emphasize that it's not that our companies haven't been working on this. Many of our companies are actually very advanced in how they've been addressing this. You just heard Daniel talk about how it's very fundamental within Via. It's actually very fundamental within a number of our companies, and they've reported on it for some time. But at Exor level, we wanted to put together a clear framework that we believed in which will take us forward into the future for a long time and be a framework which we can use both for ourselves and to apply to our companies. And these are our beliefs. So first of all, we believe that ESG is absolutely fundamental to being a great company, and I'll explain a little bit more about that in a moment. We believe that there are a set of foundational ESG measures that we're going to expect all of our companies to put in place. And that's a set of measures that will grow over time. We've then identified a set of passions around ES&G that we're going to look to hold consistently across both ourselves at Exor level and also our companies. We want to measure the impact of what we do, and we're going to hold ourselves accountable for them. And our Board has now created an ESG committee, which we'll tell you a little bit more out in a moment, and they will help both hold us accountable for what we do at Exor level but also help us to champion this new work with our companies. So I wanted to take you through the various different elements of this. So first of all, if we go back to the elements of being a great company, which you saw on that earlier slide about both our purpose and our values, acting in a responsible way is one of the elements of being a great company. But we actually believe it affects all of the different elements of being a great company because acting in a responsible way is something you should be doing today in performing to the higher standards. And it's also something that you should be thinking about as you seek renewal and change and as you think about being distinctive. And what we mean by acting in a responsible way is clearly you've got to be aligned with all of the best practices and reporting frameworks and all of that. But we also expect -- and we're going to expect this both of ourselves and of our companies that you will be continually raising the bar of what your expectations are around ESG and that each company should be aspiring to lead its industry, be amongst the leaders in its industry in ESG. Now obviously, that differs by industry, what they're going to be doing, but that's what we're going to be expecting all of our companies to do over time. I mentioned before that we'll have a set of foundational elements that we expect all of our companies to meet. But in addition to those foundational elements, what we spent time defining is what are the Exor passions as we've called them within each of the pillars of ES&G, which we want to try and promote across all of our different companies. And these are what we would like to kind of put forward and these are the ones that we spent a lot of time talking about with our companies. So if I take each of them in turn. On the environment emissions reduction, is something that we're going to ask all of our companies to measure. Many of them do already, but we're going to ask all of our companies to measure them. And we're going to ask all of our companies over time to set clear reduction targets and to track those. Now you can see at the bottom here that some of our companies are already doing this. Ferrari said that it's going to be carbon neutral by 2030, for example. But this is something now that we want to see across the portfolio. And we're also going to hold ourselves at Exor level accountable on this, as I'll come on to explain. On the social side, we're sitting here today, those of us who are here in person in the foundation and [ Gedi ] which is very much around improving education. And education is at the core, really, of the fabric of Exor and has been for a very, very long time. So it makes a lot of sense for us to focus on education within the S part of ESG. And so we'd like all of our companies to think about education initiatives of 1 of 2 sorts: one is reducing inequalities; and the other one is promoting innovation, promoting excellence within education. Now again, many of our companies are doing this already. And what we would like to see our companies do is to do things which are aligned with their own purposes as company. So we're not intending to have a cross-Exor single initiative on education. We want to have each company doing something which is -- makes sense for them and what they want to do. You may have read a little bit about what we did with the foundation and [ Gedi ] around the archipelago, particularly during the COVID crisis, which was to help particularly children from poor households to catch up with some of the education losses that took place during COVID. So to actually help in the end more than 500 students across 6 different Italian cities to do that catch up during the COVID period. That was something that we did at Exor, which was very much around the reducing inequality as part of this. But we -- our company is also do a lot on the innovation, the kind of the higher end of education. For example, the work that Stellantis has been doing around physics in schools. The third part of this on the governance element, the thing that we would like to highlight to promote across all the companies is diversity and inclusion, which we think is absolutely fundamental. I mentioned earlier some of the push -- some of what we did in CNHI during the COVID crisis around this. We were very proud when Ferrari achieved the equal pay salary certificate. And this is, again, something that we now want to see across all of our companies that they're all doing initiatives around diversity and inclusion. So these are our 3 passions, one under each of the pillars of ES&G. And under each one of these, we're going to set commitments for ourselves at Exor level, and we're going to be clear about what we're championing with our companies. So if we take the emission side, at Exor level, we want to achieve carbon neutrality by 2022 and net 0 emissions by 2025. With our companies, we're going to be asking them all to set reduction targets for Scope 1 and 2 emissions and to measure Scope 3 emissions. When we turn to the social side, so that's the education side, we have 2 initiatives that we're very excited about. One is helping young entrepreneurs to build ventures, which is something that we're doing together with an organization called [ Runte ], which is very much on the innovation side of the educational push. And then the other one is -- and this is more on the inequality side, we want to try and do something to help reduce the gender gap in STEM subjects, so particularly helping girls try and close that gender gap. And we have an initiative that we'll be doing with the foundation and [ Gedi ] to test a new way of doing that, which is [indiscernible] but we think the biggest gains will be from girls because they tend to be further behind on the STEM subjects. On our companies, as I mentioned before, we're going to ask [ every ] company to have a company relevant education initiative and a company that -- with clear metrics and targets. And we're very grateful to the foundation and [ Gedi ] who's been helping us work with the companies to make sure that we, across all of our different companies, have best practices in terms of measuring the impact of educational initiatives and also designing them, given all the expertise that sits here in this building. And then finally, on diversity and inclusion at Exor [indiscernible] reach a 40/60 gender balance. And we're going to be considering diverse candidates for all of our new appointments. And then across our companies, we're going to be asked [indiscernible] progress against them. So we [Audio Gap] and this is something [indiscernible] over time something that we really believe very strongly in. And we hope that by setting this as a framework, so we have very clear patterns that we're going to do look to champion with our companies, we will see more progress being made over time. Importantly, if we're going to do this, we need to [indiscernible] we need to be held accountable for it ourselves. So we're very pleased that our Board, the Exor Board now has an ESG committee, which is going to be chaired by Ajay Banga. And also has Laurence and Marc on it as well. All of the members of that committee have a lot of experience in this area, so we're very pleased that they have volunteered to step forward, both to help us hold us accountable at Exor level and help us as Exor champion this with our companies. And finally, I wanted to say that [indiscernible]. We've already made [indiscernible] investments, and we've got a couple of logos at the bottom. Hopefully, [indiscernible] a little thing from Treedom. What you'll find, if you have a look at that is that will enable each of you to [indiscernible] trees to each other. Those trees are then planted by farmers in local communities to help the environment. So as part of -- part of today, we would be very pleased if you could all take advantage of the opportunity to plant a tree and follow the progress of your tree over time. We [indiscernible] point for us, particularly in investment space, which is interesting when it links back to our companies as does the Green Steel investment. Thank you.

So what's next? First of all, I would like to give a summary of what our -- the available cash that we can deploy on the back of a successful transaction on PartnerRe. We have today EUR 1 billion of cash and cash equivalents that we can deploy. We are expecting in the next 3 years to be able to generate EUR 1 billion of free cash flow measured as Enrico described before. And that taking into account EUR 100 million of dividend that Exor would give to its shareholders and the proceeds of PartnerRe are close to EUR 8 billion. We would like to have flexibility of a buyback in the next years of EUR 0.5 billion, and we would like to reduce our debt, which now is at EUR 4.5 billion to EUR 4.0 billion, which, as you know, we'd like, over this decade, to get in the range of EUR 2 billion. That gives us EUR 9 billion of cash that we can look at deploying on the back of the successful sale of PartnerRe to Covéa. So where are we going to look? So first of all, we will continue giving priority to companies. And we will look into 3 distinct sectors. We want to do more exploration in health care, which is a sector in which we're not present, but one that we've learned a lot about and seen how relevant it is as we think where the needs are and where technology is going and where we need also to help reducing the overall cost of how the health care systems operate. Luxury is an area where we have been putting effort. We are not planning in building a luxury company or a luxury group as there's been many speculations. But we do think that luxury and luxury broadly defined in different categories is very interesting, which is also why the initiative that I mentioned before, the alliance that is Nuo, is very interesting in that respect. And the 2 companies Nuo has invested in, one is in personal care and the other one now is going to be in outdoor. So how you think about this needs to be broad. And finally, technology where Noam has allowed us through seeds to have a step in the future we see as an important sector in itself but also as a theme as we do think that technology is really going to cut across all different sectors. What I do want to emphasize is that we will remain, as we always have, open to new sectors and geographies. And as Suzanne mentioned before, the ESG topic is also one of great interest for us as we think about the investable opportunities that will occur on what is going to be a big driver of change between energy transitions and also good place where bits and atoms meet. But what we do think is ultimately very, very important in everything we do, and I would like to really make this point clear is on people. And what we have been able to achieve and what we will be able to achieve will be thanks to people and great people with whom we can work. Our investments are also going to provide opportunity for us to deploy our available cash and also one in which we expect, as we discussed before, to have mid-teens returns. And through our investments, we also are very hopeful, as you seen with Via, that they can provide interesting opportunities for Exor in the future. So overall, direction of travel remains the same. As we shared with you in '19, we are very committed in making sure that on companies, on investments and that our financial metrics are all in sync. We also are very cognizant that as our gross asset value grows, the returns that we have been able to achieve in the past are more difficult as the asset base is higher, but we remain very disciplined in the way we measure all the different metrics that Exor has, which Enrico talked to you about. And we expect the ESG topic to be one that is and will become, over time, more and more important in what we do and how we do it. Before answering to your questions, I would like to close with a quote for my grandfather who would have turned 100 years old, so a century in 2021, which is also how we ended the shareholders' letter of Exor in 2020 because I do think it is also reflective of the moment in time we are living at Exor where we are very optimistic about the future. The future of the companies we are in, the future of the companies that we will be acquiring, the investments that we are making and the ones we will make. And also one important part of this quote is young people. And the future will be made by young people. And I think we have very, very good colleagues of ours at Exor and in our companies. And that emphasis, as we go forward on people and on young people is going to be a key factor of success for us. So I thank you all. I am sad that we're not able to be more together physically as we would have hoped, but very confident that in 2 years from now, we will be able to be together. And I'd like to thank everyone who has come here, but also everyone who is remotely and virtually connected with us in different parts of the world. Thank you very much, and now we'll open it for Q&A.

Can I ask you -- you talked a lot about ESG. And one thing I see a lot with group companies is their shares trading at substantial discounts to their asset value. And obviously, that connection is important if shareholders are going to participate in the growth of the assets going forward. With that in mind, you had, I think, a slide showing that you may consider EUR 0.5 billion of buyback over the next few years. In the context of EUR 9 billion, I think, of available cash. That was quite a small amount. I was just wondering your thinking as far as governance and buybacks and what you think basically -- or what the thinking was behind that EUR 0.5 billion type number?

That's a good and relevant question that we've discussed with our Board. I think the thinking is the following, we believe that the opportunity set in the years to come, bearing in mind also volatile times that we are living and will live provide good opportunities. And on the other hand, because we have fixed a dividend for the next years to come at EUR 100 million. So without increasing it, the Board felt that a good way of us part -- having Exor shareholders participate rather than increasing the dividend would be through a buyback. And the buyback would also provide Exor more flexibility on when we could apply. Of course, if our shareholders were to accept. And the discount is a structural aspect of holding companies. The way to see it is that this is an opportunity to buy more of Exor, if you believe that the underlying is an interesting one.

Monica Bosio from Intesa Sanpaolo. We have seen that the focus is on 3 sectors. I was wondering if you can elaborate with us about the -- your approach on the future side of the investments across the different areas? You have just tell us that you are not going to create a big group in the luxury segment, but I was wondering if you can elaborate on the technology and on health care. And if the technological investments will be made only through Exor seeds or no? And the last question is on ESG. Can you tell us the share of ESG investors on your free float if you have this number?

So what I think is important to bear in mind is that the 3 sectors: health care, luxury and technology are all expensive sectors. So they definitely have a tailwind, but they also have high valuations. So we believe that these are important sectors to think about as we believe that we can build companies, which is why starting early through seeds, or in smaller companies is the way in which we believe we can then provide more capital over time. So the way in which we want to think about how much capital will be available per investment will on one side, depend on what age the companies we will invest are. And Via is a good example, as Daniel mentioned, of how he's been building it over a decade and has more decades to go. And what we've been discussing with Noam is really to be in that timeframe where you not necessarily want to invest a lot of money in a company that already exists if you can participate and enable that company to grow. It will prove to be more interesting in terms of returns over time. On the other hand, we have, in the past, been able to make large investments, and we do believe that ultimately being concentrated where you have high conviction is one of the strengths of Exor. And that means that we will definitely be looking at opportunities if they were to arise. But I do want to stress the fact that ultimately, we will be, as we always have been very clear about the value and the price. And we want to make sure that the price we pay reflects value that we think can be created. On our shareholder base, how many ESG-related funds we have is an information that I don't have, but we'll make sure to have that information for you.

And thank you also for providing a model of how a company should be run, and I really appreciate that living in Europe. My question is, how you individually or as a group manage the decision with Covéa? Because if we go back a year, emotions were riding high. The markets were moving fast and they pulled a pretty dastardly move. And actually, what you described is -- what I saw was you very quietly just said no, we're not doing that. And you managed to maintain the relationship to revive the deal. And I think that's extraordinary. I'm curious to understand how you did that?

First of all, I think that the logic remained intact. Covéa is interested in developing in reinsurance, PartnerRe to further develop itself because we have been able, in the 5 years that we've been owning PartnerRe to improve operationally in the company. The company is a much more efficient company, to be in the top quartile in terms of investment returns, which were 2 levers that we felt we could apply, but also change the mix of the company with a large acquisition in the life and health sector and building a third-party capital business. So our ownership of PartnerRe was one that made PartnerRe a better company. So as we believe that the future of PartnerRe and how PartnerRe can develop as a great company further. The balance sheet and the capabilities that Covéa can provide are ones that we wouldn't have been able to provide as Exor, which is the reason why we felt that for PartnerRe that would have been a good opportunity. And finally, we needed it to be also good for Exor. And at a certain price, it's good and another, it's less good. And the reason why the price was negotiated was also linked to the moment in time that we were going through. And the important then as in other instances, will be to be very clear about what is changing and why it's changing. And we also had a counterpart in Covéa and its leadership that was willing to continue dialogue and working together. And we have since developed also their interest in investing alongside us. And our investment activity has been one that they valued the relationship with Matteo, with [ Nikhin ]. And that has created the right level of trust, which ultimately you need in any business venture you go forward with.

It's a fresh breadth of air, not only because of the new trees we will plant together. I attended the first Exor annual meeting in [indiscernible] in 2016. And so it's now the sixth year. My name is [ Robert Ceres ]. I'm with Bankman family-owned Private Bank in Austria, I'm here today as a private investor. And what interests me is the investing side, so especially the -- Matteo Scolari, I saw on your website that you have investments in Cameco, Ocado and Schlumberger. So I'm wondering, are these 3 stocks, 80%, 90% of your portfolio still following the ethos of [indiscernible] that 3 stocks are plenty. And the other question is on the venture side. Have we ventured into anything that is decentralized blockchain crypto?

Those are -- some are most -- they are the biggest investments we hold today. But actually, the portfolio is a little bit more diversified than it used to be. One is a function of the fact that sometimes you just find the fat pitch as [indiscernible] calls it. So where you're going to -- you really think you're going to hit it out of the park and with very low downside. And over time, since we started 5 years ago, there's been moments of that, and we've had positions have been up to 35% of the portfolio in a single name. Today, with the valuations having run up the way they have, it's not the case. So we have more things that we think can double in value as opposed to grow up 3, 4, 5x as it used to be. And therefore, our position has [indiscernible] changed. And those positions specifically, you mentioned around 15% of the portfolio each. Another way to look at it, though, is by sector concentration in Schlumberger, for instance, which is the largest oil service company in the world, as you know, is only one part of our focus on energy. Energy, we do believe, in aggregate, is a bit of a fat pitch opportunity, but we play it not uniquely through one name, but through a portfolio of names. Also because as often is the case when the markets are very depressed, liquidity becomes an issue. And the most interesting stocks with the highest upsides become too liquid for the size of the portfolio that we're currently running. And so we're somewhat forced to diversify a bit more.

Thank you for the question. So we followed the sector quite closely. We've made some initial investment, one company called [indiscernible] Energy, which provides oil and gas companies a solution to gas flaring and using the energy actually to mine bitcoin. So it's a beautiful solution where you can help them solve an environmental problem and use that to create value. [ Saludos ] Lab would be another example, which is software for compliance, for trading platforms, people who do trade crypto currencies. So we've started to make some bets and learn more. And I think the way that we do it is always the same. We seek these founders who have that vision and try and also navigate this new space with enough care so that we don't partner -- so that we partner with the right people.

Just a question on the war chest that's quite large. And I wonder if it's -- that size is strategic for you guys. Is that a particular part of the market or that size allow you to play in particular arena that you think is less competitive? And I'm also wondering, could you flex that over to public investments fairly quickly if you see some volatility? Or do you expect to keep a lot of it in cash waiting for private investments? How do you think about that public private liquidity trade-off? And then maybe just a final one. Do you ever see a scenario where maybe it's 10 years from now, but where Exor itself is actually spinning companies to shareholders and maybe focusing each of the group's units a little bit further? But I feel like that's probably way too far in the future.

Thank you for the good questions, which aligns with one that was asked virtually what's the timeframe and methodology for investing a huge amount of cash. I suppose you envisage higher returns than PartnerRe could deliver. I think it's really -- for us, it's really good that we have been building investment capability because it does allow us to have more opportunity to deploy our cash, which is what we've been discussing with the Board, and it's definitely something that we want to size properly. What we want to though be mindful is that we think it is an advantage to be able to move fairly quickly and to have availability of resources. What we've seen in general transaction is that it's -- you don't necessarily have that many organizations that can deploy that amount of capital. And as I said before, we are comfortable on high concentration. The concentration Matteo discussed is something that we're comfortable about. Noam his largest position are really composing the big bulk of what we have in seeds. So we are comfortable in really trying to get to high convictions which could lead to high concentration. I also think that we need to have time working in our favor, and that's also something which is important and that we've learned in the past that being able to have patients but at the same time, making sure that you can act decisively when it's required is something that I believe is an advantage. And again, the sectors, we described as the ones we want to give [ thought ] and priorities are definitely ones that are really going to be important as the world and the economies develop, but they're also expensive for that reason. So one has to be always cognizant about that element too. Finally, Exor itself is a holding company. So I think we will be more participating in eventual -- in eventual [ deconglermazations ] like we have been doing and which are currently very, very fashionable rather than seeing Exor itself as looking at spinning off its own companies.

Just continuing the line of questioning about the share buyback and the discount to NAV that it trades at. So just wondering why you think that discount exists, particularly why versus other holding companies. And my understanding is that there are minimal tax effects, if you were to liquidate your holding. So just wondering how you make sense of that. And then secondly, if the discount did widen out, is there a level at which you would say we should allocate more capital toward buybacks if the discount got to 50, 60, pick a number, is there a level you say, okay, this just doesn't make sense to do anything, but buy back stock? How do you think about that?

Can you repeat the first question on the technicalities.

Why do you think the discount exists for such a wide level? So looking at your share price to the net asset value per share.

There are many, many theories on discounts. And all are -- all have some rationale. I ultimately believe that what's important is if on one side, you're able to generate returns on an NAV per share, there's a correlation with your stock. And if we look at our total shareholders' returns, historically, that would be a good indication if we were able to continue in the future. What would we do in buying back -- what would we do in terms of buying back stock? We have both 10% of our capital over the last decade. So if there were strong conviction for multiple reasons, we would look at it. But again, it's more important the underlying than the discount because if you had a very valued underlying, though the discount would be high, probably you're better off not going into an aggressive buyback versus having a small discount, but the underlying gross asset value being in our views, undervalued. So I think it's not mechanical per se. It needs judgment. And I'm very confident that the discussion with our Board on this topic has always been very, very healthy.

Yes, looking back, I' m [indiscernible] . So looking back, some of your incredible value creation has been achieved to boldness of certain leaders. I would mention Sergio probably. And what I now see is that you're stepping in and acting as CEOs in some of your companies. So doesn't that inhibit somehow boldness of managers if I see that the Exor people are stepping in and running companies.

I would say that, that has been something that was not by design. And we had unfortunate circumstances that happened where our ownership and our governance was able to address effectively and swiftly. And as I described before, we are lucky to have very strong leaders of our companies today and the success as I closed my presentation will be based on having strong leaders. So I think that on the contrary, we have been evolving and developing with more leaders than we used to have.

Gabriele Gambarova from Banca Akros. The first one is on IVECO Group. It is set to start trading on its own at the beginning of January. I think it's a good company. Probably, it is not a great company. So question is what are the options on the table? What do you foresee to make it a great company? A similar question for CNH Industrial. I believe in this case, it's already a great company. But what's next? I mean, do you envisage any, I don't know, M&A or major M&A deal to make it even better than now? We know that the gap between CNH and the leader in the agricultural industry is pretty wide. And third and last question on Comau. It's still in the Stellantis portfolio. We know that it should be, let's say, spun off. So I was wondering if there is any new initiative on this front.

I'll take the first 2 parts of this, and then John pass to you on Comau. So on IVECO Group, I hope you had the opportunity to see the IVECO Group Investor Day presentation that we did on November 18, which hopefully described what is an exciting future for that company when it spins out of CNHI in early January. It is a company which has shown already that it's very good at creating partnerships as it did with Nikola Motors. And that partnership has been successful. It's now producing the electric heavy trucks, and will go on to produce the fuel cell electric vehicles. It is well positioned to continue to do partnerships. It's shown that it's able to do that. And of course, it also has a very strong bus business and a very strong engines business. So we believe that the different parts of that company together are a very interesting collection. And we've said at Exor level that we very much support it spinning out, we see no reason to do anything further with that company. Obviously, if there was -- if there was an approach to it, then the Board would look at it, but there's no intention to look for anything. We're very happy as that -- with that as an independent company within our portfolio. And we at Exor level will support it in becoming a great company. And by the way, I think if you look at the Investor Day presentation, there was a lot in there about ESG, which is a very big part of that kind of company's future. On the CNHI side, by separating the companies, I think it's going to be somewhat easier now for that company to start to progress and really develop within the agriculture and construction sectors. We supported the acquisition of Raven, which as I mentioned earlier, completed this morning, which I think gives the company a very good base in terms of precision agriculture, which is one of the pieces which will be necessary as we look forward into the future and rightly one of the things that people have kind of highlighted as being important for that company. We see the company as having a good future moving forward to being a great company under the leadership of Scott Wine. There will be a CNHI Investor Day on the 22nd of February next year, where they will lay out more of the plans for the company in the future. There will also be actually on the IVECO group side in the first half of February, there will be a technology day going through everything that the IVECO group is doing. So both companies are very active in laying out what their future is going to be. I think at Exor level, we've made it clear that we are supportive of both sides. We're going to stay as investors in both sides, and we're excited about the future potential.

So I have a couple of questions coming virtually that I'll read. So how do you intend to manage potential investments in the consumer luxury space between the alliance with Nuo or directly [indiscernible]? Will size of the possible target be the criteria? We believe that size is going to be the criteria. And we think that Nuo under Tommaso's leadership has the ability of really identifying very interesting companies as those companies scale. And if they are ones that would be interesting for the company and for Exor, Nuo definitely has the opportunity of providing a funnel for us, similarly to seeds and similarly to how we're thinking about some investments in the private market with Nikhil. So we look at it in terms of size and then compatibility with the company and Exor. You benchmark your financial against other European holding companies, such as Investor AB and [ Tunivik]. What have you learned from studying other holding companies? We learned a lot from other holding companies. And definitely, the Nordic holding companies have been very, very good in one, entering sectors of the future and being very much very ahead in all the ESG-related matters. So that is, for us, a very important example of what they've been doing and how systematic they've been active. And in fact, the opportunity that Suzanne mentioned H2 Green Steel is a Swedish company in which other holding companies and families behind those holding companies are also investors. So we definitely think that there's a lot to learn about how to participate and be bolder, more courageous as our value state in looking at sectors of the future. Thank you for buying back shares and not increasing the dividend. Why do you limit the sectors you're looking at to 3? Some European insurance companies aren't expensive at all. And with EUR 9 billion, you can make an impact and realize nice returns. So as I mentioned, we are going to prioritize on those 3 sectors, but we will remain open to opportunities. And those opportunities could be in very different sectors. Having said that, financial services at large are very regulated. It's a very regulated industries. If you look at the whole spectrum. And with all what is happening in these sectors, particularly also driven by technology we want to be -- we want to make sure that we are on the right hand of history. And one of the things that we've learned with our companies particularly our older ones that are not 20th century companies, but 19th century companies is that the transformation and the renewal can be very painful. And so you need to be very -- you also need to be very clear about the trade-offs of where you spend time. And ultimately, it all depends on price and value. We have one question, which is any update from the family fund? How do you see this public private investments going forward? We believe that the family fund is very -- has been very important. We actually within our investments have continued to allocate some of our liquidity to it, and it has performed well. What it has allowed us is really to learn a subset, which is the owner operators companies. So the companies who are owned and operated who actually have performed even better than the family fund, and that has been a big part of our thinking and our reflection around some of the evolution of our governance and also how important the attributes of leaders, where we believe there's a lot to learn from owner operators. What does it mean for the Agnelli family in terms of strategic optionality, the voting rights multiplied by 5 for long-term shareholders? So the multiple votes is a feature that exists in the Netherlands, which is very aligned to incentivized long-term ownership, which has been applied to Exor, but also to our Dutch-based companies. And we think it's a very important tool in terms of the alignment, the long-term alignment with shareholders. It -- there is no change today -- significant change that we foresee in the ownership of Exor. The [ JovananaliBV ], which is the largest shareholder, is committed to its ownership. And we believe that this is a very -- has been a very effective tool of incentivizing long-term ownership. Technology has a wide meaning, may you elaborate some more on specific areas of potential interest. I will divert to Noam on this.

I think we had just a few words about that earlier, but mobility, fintech and health care have been a focus as of late. I think we should -- you should expect to see more health care. We've made a dedicated effort to really screen for opportunities in the sector, both in biotech and in digital health. And that's one thing I will say. And on the crypto side, I think for us, it would be more about infrastructure, about finding the right groups that we can start to build relationship with. That would be it.

Thank you, Noam. Then we have a question on luxury. There's multiple questions on luxury. Can you elaborate about what verticals you consider interesting in luxury broadly defined? Is luxury sector is one of your priorities? As I said, we believe there is a very interesting characteristics of the luxury sector. And we think that good quality of products or services at a good pricing point are very interesting consumer goods businesses. And we've been very fortunate owning one of the world's prime luxury company, which is Ferrari. And as we're developing Ferrari, learning about the different segments of the market in terms of additional markets to what is the core business of Ferrari, which is building the great cars it does. And we have, in the recent 2 years, been investing in [ Siangxia Nobu Tan ], which are very specific opportunities in the luxury sector. And that is what is going to drive the possibility of Exor of doing more. It will be very much driven by specific characteristics or opportunities where we will be a good fit for the company. And they are very interesting in terms of these 3 companies of where they are because Ferrari is a very strong legitimate brand in one category, and now it's trying to build in new categories. [indiscernible] is a growing company and one of the prime independent luxury companies, and it's very strong in specific markets and in specific categories and it's really working on developing it in new markets, for example, China, we're in additional categories in the leather goods. And [ Siangxia ], is really an opportunity of China, which is the largest market, as you all know, for luxury in really identifying itself as a native proposal and a way in which the Chinese market has the opportunity of also having a company that can express itself for that need. And it has already 10 years of longevity. So we are in a adolescent phase, which is a very interesting moment in time. So these 3 companies are in different moments of their lives, and they present very unique opportunities for Exor, which is the reason why we are invested. Will there be more? We don't know. We're not planning at the moment but we're definitely open. And we are, as a general conclusion for today, we are very eager and very open for business, and that really means that if there will be interesting ideas, interesting opportunities and more specifically, interesting people with whom to work. Exor is a place that will be open for those conversations. So I really would like to thank all of you who are here physically with us and virtually and looking forward, exciting 2 years ahead. Thank you.