Expensify, Inc. (EXFY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Yes. All right. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to JPMorgan's 50th Annual Global Technology Media and Communications Conference. Appreciate everyone coming out here today. I'm Raquel Betesh. I'm a software analyst here at JPMorgan and Research. And today, I'll have the pleasure of hosting David Barrett, the CEO of Expensify. David, thanks so much for being here.

Happy to be here.

So to start us off, your S-1 says you're a payment superapp. What does that actually entail?

Sure. So for anyone who doesn't know, Expensify at a high level, we do expense reports that don't suck. I know it's a bold vision, but we're making the world a better place, one expense report at a time. And so we're best known mostly for our expense reports, but really what makes Expensify special is that we are a universal payment engine that does every variation upon a list of expenses that you give to someone and they pay in return. Now obviously, expense management is the most straightforward application of that. But this really describes every kind of payments. Like basically, in our world, an expense report is the same as like an invoice. An invoice is just a simplified expense report that has an easier approval process. A bill is just the other side of an invoice. A paycheck is an expense report submitted twice a month automatically with some tax stuff. Even like consumer P2P payments like Venmo style stuff, that's just invoicing, simplified down for individuals and check is just invoicing without the money. And so basically, Expensify is a single platform that does everything from unstructured WhatsApp style chat, all the way up to highly structured enterprise expense management, and it seamlessly blends everyone between there. And so the difference, I would say, and the reason that we say a payment superapp is, it's not just expense management, it is you can run essentially all of the cash parts of your business through Expensify, and then we'll connect with their accounting systems to kind of take from there.

So who do you see as your primary competition? And why do customers choose Expensify?

Sure. I would say there's -- there are really kind of 2 classes of competitors, if you will. There are the people who are competing with Concur and the people who are competing with like Chase. And so like most of like -- there's a whole bunch of expense management players out there that are just basically an enterprise sales model, selling enterprise expense management, just like mini Concur is trying to like out-Concur Concur, but like that's really hard. Because Concur's like a good enterprise sales business. And then there's a bunch of like card products, which are trying to compete with like Amex or like what are all the different corporate cards out there. We're different than everyone. I mean, obviously, we saw the same problems as everyone else, expense management has like been here since the dawn of time. Like you can't run a business and not do something here. And so the problem is pretty well understood, all technology gets copied eventually. Yes, we're the best and all that. Like we were the first -- we were the very first expense reporting mobile app, the first to do receipt scanning and like we're superapp and all that. But the most important differentiation we have is that we acquire customers completely different than everyone else. Everyone else in our industry uses an enterprise sales model and is going after the same tiny set of enterprise companies. We're completely different, in that basically, our business model starts with the individual employee, downloading our app for free without waiting to be asked, without asking permission and just starting to use it inside of the company. And so we turn every expense report into a highly targeted marketing message to the decision maker. And as a result, we're starting basically with the employees who pull us into the organization. And this is a completely different business model than everyone else in the industry, and it's the reason why we're like the only profitable expense management company out here. And we are reaching a huge part of the market completely unrelated to everyone else. Like yes, we can sell into the enterprise we want to. This enterprise sucks. It is like the lowest margin, the smallest part of the industry, it's slowest to sell. It's like a terrible part of the market, where everyone else is like fighting like a blood bath over. We're just on the other side of the ocean, like way, way out in the deep end of the pool, and we're just soaking up the -- of the 300 million businesses out there that in the world, maybe a couple of hundred thousand do any kind of expense management. We're going after the other untapped 99% with a business model that's designed to scale profitably out in the wilderness where no one else does.

You guys have said that you can get 1 billion users on to Expensify. Obviously, that's quite a claim, so how is that coming? And why do you guys think that's realistic?

We've got some work to do. We're not quite there yet, but like to kind of give us a sense of scale. We've got -- we're approaching, let's call it, if you round up generously, we got like 100 -- like working towards 100,000 customers. We've got about 1 million companies on the platform. We've got like 10 million users on the platform. And so we still got a couple of more orders of magnitude to go, but I think we're off to a pretty good start. And so I think that, as I mentioned, the opportunity size is huge and virtually untapped. Like the vast majority of the companies in the world don't do anything. Our competition isn't Concur or Ramp or Brex or any of these guys, our competition is Excel or e-mail or an actual Manila envelope stuff full receipts, like that is the real world of expense management. And so as a result, we have a business model which is designed to tap into the natural viral dynamics of basically this industry. And the viral business model is the only one that can capture 1 billion users. I would say none of our competition is even going after the same opportunity as us. There aren't enough salespeople in the world to like go and close 300 million businesses. It's just not possible. And that's why we have a business model, and we are all-in on viral acquisition. And that's why we think that if anyone is going to do it, it's going to be us.

So your billboards are everywhere quite literally right outside this building actually, if anyone saw that. And they often advertise you guys as free, but you're also profitable and cash flow positive. So obviously, you're making money. So can you just kind of walk us through the pricing there and how you guys are making money?

Yes, it's a good trick. So basically, the way it works is Expensify is -- you can think of it, there's sort of 5 stages of business development. First, you start off just like an idea. There's like no money involved just kind of thinking. Then there's like a side hustle, like you're starting to spend some money, but you're not really paying attention to it that closely. Then it becoming like an actual start-up where you get an accountant, you start doing real accounting and things like this. Then like maybe you're a company where you start to hire people, you don't trust, unless you need to add approvals and things get a little more complicated. Then you become like an enterprise and you add external compliance obligations on top of that. That's the kind of 5 different stages, if you will. And Expensify's free plan is targeted to that side hustle phase. We're basically like kind of this pre-accounting sort of situation, and it's free. You can run your entire business through it, do invoicing, bill processing. You can do expense management, corporate cards, corporate travel, all that for free. But when you're doing it for free, you're making us money in the sense of we're earning interchange off of your corporate card. So it's free for you, but we're making a ton of money of you. It's just great. As you -- once you adopt accounting, then you have to upgrade to one of our paid subscription plans. But you're still using our corporate card, and you still have cashback for a corporate card. And in many cases, the actual corporate card cashback is more than our subscription cost, and so we're still paying you to use Expensify. Even though -- so it feels free to you, even though we're still making money. We're basically like deducting our subscription fee out of our cashback, if you will. And so there's a million different variations upon this because again, we have so many customers in so many industries all over the world. And -- but I'd say the key thing is that we use this bottom-up dynamic in order to generate leads, that's kind of zero marginal cost on a global basis into this huge, huge, huge untapped market. This market is not price sensitive at all because no one else is competing for the same people. The vast majority of our customers couldn't even name a single competitor. They couldn't even name us before one of their employees basically put us on to the roadmap. They adopt us for free while they're kind of like in this early stage while they're just kind of like doing some sort of chaotic expense management. We start making money off them through Expensify corporate card and we're getting like great interchange rates out of that. And then eventually, maybe the upgrade for more advanced paid functionality. But by that time, their spend is already growing as well. So they're still making a bunch of cashback. And so it's a pretty great sort of win-win in the sense that, yes, we're making money, they're making money and everything they do also spreads us virally throughout their network. In the sense that every time an expense by customer sends an expense by invoice to one of their clients, they send it to the accounts payable clerk of that client. That's the same person that configures expense management for the company. So when they go to pay that invoice, they also just happen to set themselves up for a corporate card and everything else. And so we grow by leapfrogging between the accounting departments and the different companies. And then the employees themselves use our consumer payment functionality to like settle debts with their friends, or whatever it is, their roommates. Because if you work in a company that uses Expensify, odds are your friends work in companies that could be using Expensify because really, everyone in the world should be using Expensify.

Something very unique about the company is that you guys have been doing over upwards of $160 million in revenue, annualized revenue with only 140 employees. So how is that possible? How is that working?

Yes. It's pretty wacky. And so I think that I always took inspiration from WhatsApp. WhatsApp got to like 1 billion users with 79 employees. I've got like twice that. So I think I can get to 2 billion. And I think that, fundamentally, that's the power of the viral model, though. And that basically, if you want to capture 1 billion users, you can't have any roles that scale with customer account, like that's not going to work. And so as such, the way we view hiring, like a lot of start-ups, I talked to founders who're like, yes, we've hired 500 people this quarter. I'm like, I am so sorry that you have to do that. That f****** sucks. I think because hiring is a solution to a problem. And the best thing is you don't have a problem, great. You don't need to hire. Next is you automate away the problem. Great. You don't need to hire. Third is that you outsource the solution of the problem. Great. You don't need to hire. Only when all else fails, should you be hiring. And so our view is that your headcount shouldn't be like a high score like basketball, it should be a low score like golf. You want the fewest possible people that you can get away with, and it's only a sign when like everything else has failed that you actually add to that.

You guys stopped giving out quarterly guidance. Can you just walk me through kind of what the motivation was there and what the thought process was?

Sure. Because of the world, I don't know if you've noticed, is f***** chaos, right now. And so we have this incredibly stable organic business model. Like pre-COVID, it was just every single graphic, the smooth, perfectly smooth, beautiful curve up into the right. And then everything went crazy for the past couple of years. And so I'd say the challenge is our model is extraordinarily predictable when the market -- the environment is predictable, but everything is wild right now. And so it's a combination of -- we've got this very stable subscription revenue at the bottom. It just grows a couple of percent a month every month no matter what. And then we have this overage rates on top of that. So basically, you lock in a 50% discount for committing to an annual seat and then you basically essentially pay double for overage on top of that. That means, at the end of every month, we get this unpredictable amount of overage that comes in at like double the rate. And so makes forecasting very hard because this is very frothy part on top of things. And so we just concluded like, look, any investment in Expensify should be based upon your belief in our long-term vision. And should be making a decision based upon like next quarter's results, we're not managing to next quarter. We're managing to like next year, next 10 years. And so we're looking for investors that are on board for this long-term vision, who are going to evaluate us through a long-term lens because that's how we're managing the actual business.

Recently, you guys dramatically expanded your advertising. Can you talk about what channels you're currently using and how you're targeting customers?

Sure. I mean we're basically like a battleship firing in every direction wildly. I think our business kicks off a ton of cash. And so basically, our options are -- it's also organic, like we didn't advertise at all for like the first 12 years of the business. And then our very first advertisement was the Super Bowl ad. And so it's a very much an organic word-of-mouth business, which is super efficient for lead generation. And that works just like kind of all the time. But it also just kicks off so much money. And so we could either just put it in the bank account, but like it's not creating value for the business, just like hanging out, like guarding like $100 million in the bank, we don't need $200 million or $500 million, it just sits there. And so we're like, f*** it, we're just going to spend a ton of it on basically advertising as much as possible. Now there's also a limit to how much kind of constructive advertising you can do. Like for example, so we start with ad words, everyone starts with ad words. But there is a finite number of relevant keywords and we bought them all. Basically, like people search for Expensify, 10x more than they search for expense reports. Like there's a limited number of people who are actually even qualified doing some qualified searches. And so we're like, great, buy every single keyword bid for the absolute top placement. And I was like, okay, that adds up to a certain number of millions of dollars, and it's like, [indiscernible] very much like we could do more. I'm like, okay, let's do top 20 cities and let's basically plaster everything through like billboards and buses and things like this. And now we're like almost oppressively visible in these cities. It's like almost too much. And so like, okay, we could go to like the top 40 cities maybe or maybe like get every single bus. But like at some point, it's like it's probably just good enough. And so we're doing all of this and a bunch more, we've got some podcast stuff. We got outbound mailers. We got like a whole bunch of s*** going on. And despite all of that, we are still profitable and putting money in the bank. And so I like -- I think that fundamentally, it's just about like we have a business model, which is fundamentally kicks off so much cash, and we're very aggressive in trying to spend it. We just spend on every opportunity. We don't know exactly how the ROI is, but it's like it's better than nothing, and so it's just very additive.

Do you expect to sustain that level kind of marketing spend going forward? Or do you believe the strategy is more acute here?

I think that we're going to be an aggressive advertiser for a long time. I think that's still very much an active discussion. And I think that's the challenges because it's not super attributed. And it's not like if we were to stop all advertising, it wouldn't mean that our growth stops. It would mean that some amount of future opportunity over the upcoming years we didn't capture. And I don't exactly know how much that is. And so I'd say I think we still feel very bullish on basically making sure we're taking advantage of every single opportunity out there and willing to throw our cash at it. If we were to stop advertising, it would be because we found what we think is a better use of cash. And I think -- and we'll shift things around very rapidly. So we're not beholden to anything just because we've done it. But at this time, I think that, no, advertising is going to be here.

Can you talk a little bit about the CPA corporate card and the partnership with the approved accounting channel and kind of if and when you would expect that to materially contribute to revenue?

Sure. So accountants -- every accountant has a bunch of clients, and each client has a bunch of employees. And so even though we're very SMB-focused company and the SMB as an aside is the best part of the market, it's the largest part of the market, the highest margin part of the market because no one else is going after it, so there's no margin erosion. Furthermore, there's no one's job in the SMB is to buy software. It's basically just -- they're not clicking on ads, they're not taking calls, no one is thinking about it. And as a result, when an employee basically promotes Expensify in the company or they're recommended, they adopt for free, they started buying. When we start charging, the subscription rate, it's called, like $9 or whatever it is. A small business owner is just like, whatever, that's nothing. I just don't think about it. Like $9 an employee, it's like the smallest thing ever. Talk to an enterprise buyer, they're like that's outrageous. $9, I would never do that. Come on and I was like, why? And they're like what? Because it's my job to take every number and make its half. I'm like, well, that number is already so small. They're like, doesn't matter. And so I think like the enterprise sucks for this because someone's job is just to grind everything down to dust. And furthermore, there's like 1,000 competitors that have these like fake business models that just hemorrhage cash. And so it's like -- there's no way -- no one is profitable up there. It's impossible to be profitable because everyone is willing to lose money for their entire short visitable existences. And so instead, we're like, screw that, we're going to go to the SMB. We're like no one gives a s*** about price because they see the value and respect it. And so as a result, the SMB is where it's at. It's great retention. I could like rave about. Like love some science to it. So accounting industries are interesting because most of the clients of accountants are small businesses. And so the accounting industry is a great channel to reach small businesses specifically. And each accountant has, call it, 10, 20 clients, whatever it is. That's like 10 or 20 SMBs wrapped up by a single buyer. And so accounts are actually very, very high leverage point for accessing the SMB market, which as I've talked about, is amazing. The challenge, however, is that accountants are like really low to be bribed. Like you basically you can't just say like, please, just like buy -- like deploy this out to your customers and then you're going to get sort of cut of it. Like, no, actually, we only do what we think is like best for our clients. And so as a result, the idea of like kickbacks and referrals and things like this, this doesn't work in this industry. The kind of things you would think about in like other partner channels of like paying people to deploy your product doesn't work in this industry. You have to be the best product, and they had to truly believe that. And so we've worked very hard in the accounting channel for years to learn the unique needs of this industry and convince everyone like we are the best for your clients. And so they work for us willingly and eagerly without any sort of like referral fees and things like this. So the Expensify CPA card is the culmination of all this learning to basically say, what exactly do you need for your clients? We're going to give you that and to make sure the card is optimized for your needs. Now it's still economically the same thing as the Expensify Card, but it has like better pricing for accountants. It has -- we'll reimburse like CPE credits and AICPA memberships and things like this. It comes with an account management and better support and so forth. So it's like a long list of super boring things that accountants care about, that's very important to them, that helps us tap into this accounting channel, which is a huge, huge super important channel.

So you obviously just highlighted how important the SMB side is to your business. So in the context of the macroeconomic environment, what is Expensify's outlook on the SMB trajectory?

Well, I would say whether or not -- so first, I don't know, I don't know. Like what's Putin is going to do? I don't know. Like that's nuts. And so I would say, but our view is that the market opportunity is so big that whether that TAM increases or shrinks a little bit, it actually has no effect upon our business model. Like there's just so much untapped opportunity, and we're going to go get it either way. Furthermore, I would say because we have largely a subscription-based revenue, companies don't just -- they might pull back their spend. And so business models, which depend very heavily on transaction revenues, I think, could be really under threat in a recession base sort of like very quick pullback model. But we only require you to be active once a month. Like maybe you go from like 10 purchases a month to like 5 purchases or 2 purchases and your interchange might actually go down by like 80% or something like that, our subscription is unaffected. Furthermore, we also have -- we've locked in most of our revenue through like annual subscriptions. And so it's like very, very protected from sort of sudden shifts. And so by and large, I would say, and this is maybe more of it, like I'm secretly gloating for this recession because I'm like, this is going to wipe out all the competition. It's going to just crush their entire business models. And for us, we're going to be fine because we solve a very important pain point that if you're a business, you have to solve this problem. And once you adopt Expensify, you don't go anywhere else. And so I think that -- again, a recession is like not great for business for anyone in the short term. But I think it's a very, very healthy correction, and it's going to wipe out a lot of sort of the noise in the market. And then once the market comes back, like I think we're going to be better positioned than ever. And so because we always think in terms of long term, like I have no idea how this is going to affect the short term, no one does. But I'm very confident it's going to be great for the long term.

In 2020, you guys made a massive pricing change. Do you expect pricing upticks to continue to play a role in your long or medium-term strategy?

No. I mean, like we could. So I think that, as I mentioned, there's really no price sensitivity in this market because people are evaluating the absolute value to the company and they were saying like $9 is, like, is a steal. Even -- but this is like -- I mean, I remember actually talking to customers and like, "Oh yes, I couldn't live without like Expensify, like Salesforce." So I'm like, Salesforce cost $90 a seat, like we cost $9. There's like a huge, huge range between us and actually the ceiling. And we'd like a $1 million McKinsey report to explore this, and they're like, no, there's no price sensitivity. Like you're not even close to the ceiling. So how far could we go, who knows? But even in the past, our price changes were never just to extract more rent. It was always to drive a strategic outcome. So for example, when we launched the Expensify Card, we say, hey, great, price is going up in every one. But if you adopt the Expensify Card, you keep the same price. And so basically, or like, hey, everyone, we're going to increase prices unless you switch to an annual subscription. And so we've always baked in this idea of like this $5 and $9 price point, which is the same price point we've had for like 10 years and then we drive all our best customers to it by using pricing as a lever to do something else. And so we want everyone to be in the $5 and $9 price point, like that's our preferred position. And it's only if you like deviate from our best practices that you pay basically higher. So it's like a complete opposite strategy than most companies, like the more of Expensify you use, the lower your cost because our use cases generate transactional revenue and things like this. And so anyway, we have the ability to raise prices and we've raised prices in the past. No part of our guidance presumes that we're going to raise prices. We have no near-term plans to do so. So like if we do, it's because we think that there's a way to do it even better, but no, we haven't baked any of that in.

So actually, in regards to price increases, someone sent in a question, but I do want to open up the floor after he answers that question to anybody. Just raise your hand and we'll come around with a mic and help you ask your question. So what came in on the iPad was, you updated pricing in 2020 with generous tiers for customers who adopt the card. Can you comment on what percent of the client base has now fully migrated to the new pricing policy? And separately, what percentage of paid customers have adopted the card?

Well, okay. So I'd say there's like 2 major shifts that we did. First was to drive people from pay-per-use to annual. There's a bunch of these numbers. But like the vast majority of customers switched to annual. So basically, that was very, very effective at driving people to the annual price point, which is great. And then 2020, we launched the Expensify Card and said if you just adopt the card for over half of your spend. Now as a reminder, we see all of your spends because whether you do it on us or corporate card reimbursement, whatever it is, we see it all. So if at least half your spend goes in the card, then you get a 50% discount and basically keep your previous price. I just don't know that number off the top of my head. I think that I will say, we've been super, super pleased with the growth of the Expensify Card. If that were our only business, we'd be over the moon. It's just competing with a 14-year-old subscription business. And so like it's still not quite to that material amount. So it's been a -- we think it's been a very effective tool for driving adoption the Expensify Card, and it's just shown super-steady progress.

Awesome. Does anybody in the audience have any questions? Yes.

I'm just curious, how does the viral kind of go-to-market strategy apply to the corporate card business? Do you have more of a hurdle there?

Great question. So the way you would virally adopt the corporate card works like this. Employee, which we used to refer us to as patient zero, but not so much anymore. So first employee basically signs up in the company, and they're like, I hate my expense reports, and so they just start using it. And then the boss learns about Expensify because they get an e-mail from employees. It says like, "Hey, your employee wants you to reimburse this particular seat, and it's free." Okay, so they click in, connect their bank account, reimburse whatever it is. And then in the process of connecting their bank account, however, we also just qualify them for a corporate card. Like there's like, oh, I know that you connected your business bank account in order to reimburse its receipts. But now you also have a fully big like enabled corporate card program. And then we go back to that original employee, and we say like, "Hey, do you want a corporate card? Your company has been approved for it." And they're like, "Yes, that sounds good. I like a corporate card." Like, right, but what do you want your limit to be? "They're like, I don't know, $10,000." We're like, cool. Then they go back to the boss, and is like "Hey, this employee here wants a $10,000 card, click here to enable." And now everyone in the company knows it's like, "Well, wait a second. So we're obviously approved. I can get it. It doesn't cost anything like why don't I have a corporate card." And we create a conversation inside of the company around the corporate card that just didn't exist before. And so this has been a really powerful tool for basically engaging employees into the buying process. And we think -- we've done this again and again for like other products. It's kind of the secret to our bottom of success is recognizing that increasingly. Employees have a tremendous amount of influence inside of the organization, especially for software that solves a personal pain point. But normally, they're just cut out of the sales process entirely. And so our entire strategy is to bring them into the conversation and put it on to the roadmap of the company for adoption. And I think that's been super successful.

Any more questions from the audience? Yes.

I was just curious if you could talk about churn. And if you've got any feedback on why someone would leave what you're offering?

Great question. So the McKinsey report, I was talking about, was specifically looking into price-related churn and to figure that out. And it concluded one thing is that there's no price sensitivity; and two, there's no price-related churn, which goes hand in hand. And also, they're finding -- and this was done -- the report was, I think, like February 2020. So I think they're all pre-COVID results, if you will. But it also concluded that we had like better than best-in-class enterprise retention rates in the SMB. And one reason for that is kind of surprising is, as I mentioned, no one's job is to buy software, and that means no one's job is to evaluate alternatives. Like once you're in, you're just kind of in for life until you like really screw it up and then someone has to look around. And so we find that actually with fantastic retention rates basically on a logo basis, but also more importantly, as we have like revenue expansion from existing customers. Because as customers grow, they add more seats and they just make us more money. No one has to renew a contract. It just happens because we just build them at the end of the month for more seats. And then eventually, their overage goes a little bit too high, and so then they're like, we'll sign up for more annual seats and then it's going to correct things that way. And so I think that if you compare us to something like Intuit. Let's say, Intuit has 2 kinds of churn: Their worst customers churn because the businesses fail. And then also their best customers churn because they outgrow QuickBooks. So you can't outgrow Expensify. I mean like we work from individuals up to multinational, 20,000 employee companies and things like this. And so as a result, there's -- we don't suffer the churn at the top because you just don't outgrow Expensify. And for whatever reason, we've actually -- our -- probably the kinds of companies that choose a tool like Expensify fail less than the average SMBs. I won't take credit for that, but it's probably some selection bias there. And so I think that we've actually had -- the number one reason that someone would leave Expensify is definitely business failure, like that is by far. The second reason that someone will leave Expensify is because they hired a new finance team that was just committed to something else. It's like -- and we've seen this again and again, like, hey, we're going to go public, just hire some new CFO. They used Concur. They did it last time, it worked for them. So they're just going to do that again, and they're like no force on earth is going to change that. But that's such a minority case, I would say. By and large, we just hold on to customers forever.

Any more questions from the audience? Yes.

Sure. Speaking about the Concur actually, like what are the top 3 differences between you and Concur? I mean I know Concur is a much bigger company. And sometimes it's a pain in the neck to use it. So...

Sure. Yes. So I'd say it's like -- so we solve the same problem. Like from one perspective, you could say, like, oh, we're very similar because we do expense management, there are seats and things like this. But I would say from a product perspective or let me start. So first off, the primary differentiation between us and everyone else is our business model. And a side effect of that is the product is different because our products are built to support a different business model. Concur's entire product is built to be sold to someone who will never use it. And so that person actually has like the whole checkbox list of sort of like really esoteric features that actually don't do anything, but they sound really good and they're like super important to like the bake-off process sort of thing. And by the time it actually gets in the hands of an employee, like it's done. It just doesn't matter. Like so the employee experience straight up is irrelevant to the Concur experience. Like when I started Expensify, the only way to upload a receipt into Concur was to fax it in. You had to like print out a cover sheet and then fax it in. Like we were the very first expense reporting mobile app. We were the first to offer integrated receipt scanning. And they took years to do either of those sort of things. Because again, the buyers don't scan receipts, don't do any business trips, like they basically just don't care. Our business model starts with the employee. Our employees -- it's a requirement for us that the employees love us. And so that's why we've always been the first to launch any sort of productivity focused or sort of automation features and things like this. And so I think that our products are different, not in the problem that we solve, but that we are an employee-focused, like an employee-first business model. And so it means that we solve them in a way that has to be held to a higher standard, being like a consumer-grade design to an enterprise scale product. And I would say -- and as a consequence, like I was just talking with investors today about like Concur. Like, gosh, you answer this, I need to do a Concur thing. I'm like, well, what do you do for your receipts? It's like, well, actually what I do is, then -- the list was like, first, what I do is I take a picture, then I mail it to myself. And then I print out that mail, then I move over here, drag, I'm like, what, that's madness. I'm like, didn't you -- I'm thinking like, don't you know Concur has receipt scanning built into the app, like you can do it. You just have to like pay extra for it. And so -- and no one buys it. So like it has receipt scanning, no one uses it. Furthermore, even when you pay for it, it's like a different app. It's like it's horrible experience. And so it checks the box, like, yes, Concur has receipt scanning technically. I've never met anyone who actually uses it because it's just so onerous to actually make half it. And so anyway, I think that the big difference for us and everyone else just comes down to every part of our business is calibrated for this different business model. And that impacts like our higher end. That's why we have such a weird like management structure from like basically how we have this core creative group of employees and then these outer rings of contractors. Our technology is completely different. Like our technology stack -- like we've been running a blockchain-based database since before Bitcoin. Because we actually optimized for this giant singular database much more like a social network. Like we're built way more like LinkedIn than we are like Salesforce. Because when you sign up for Expensify, you sign up before your company. And so we don't know where you work. Switching between companies and Expensify is just like switching groups in LinkedIn. It's like a very low key event. Like you can't even do that. For something like Concur, when you download the mobile app, you can't even sign up for it. Like it's impossible. There is no sign-up button. You have to call a salesperson. And if you call the salesperson, they wouldn't even talk to you because you're not the CFO. And so it's like it's just such a different technology stack and business model, product design ethos. Our branding is different like we did a Super Bowl ad with 2 chains. So it's like, I don't think Concur doing it anytime soon. And so it's just a very, very different business model overall.

Any other questions from the audience? Yes.

You always talk a lot about that you want to become the payment superapp, but is there actually any evidence of businesses that use Expensify or the platform for other things than just expenses of their employees?

Oh, absolutely. We have a huge, huge -- I mean we're super diverse customer base. Like one would be like churches, okay. So churches are interesting because they've got a lot of money, very complicated tax status, but a bunch of reimbursements go to church goers who are volunteers, and not to employees. And so like there's kind of a quasi business case there. We have a whole bunch -- and again, of our 10 million users, like only 750,000 of them are actually paying us on a monthly basis. Like there are a bunch more that are doing us for tracking their school expenses, for -- they're doing a home renovation. They're like working expenses out with like their general contractor. There's like a zillion weird random cases like that. And so this is not some sort of like aspirational feature that were used in nonbusiness context. Like this is very much -- we are reacting to what our customers do, not trying to just sort of like push them to do something else.

We have under a minute left. So I think that will conclude our session. But thank you so, so much for joining us, David. And we hope everybody enjoyed the conference so far and enjoys the rest of it.

All right. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you so much.