Experience Co Limited (EXP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Experience Co Limited Fiscal Year '20 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. John O'Sullivan. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you very much. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for your attendance here this morning. With me, I have Owen Kemp, Experience Co's Chief Financial Officer. And this morning, Owen and I would like to give you a short presentation covering a very quick business update and overview, followed by Owen walking you through our financial results in a little bit more detail, and then finally, very importantly, giving you an overview of how we see the outlook and a trading update for the first part of FY '21. So turning to Slide 4 and into the business overview. I think it's very fair to say that in the 20-year history of our company, this has not been a standard year of trading or results, and it's been a year that's frankly been like no other. Our business has been subject to not one, but actually 2 black swan events in the Australian bushfires and of course, COVID-19 and been influenced and impacted by the associated government response to that, whether that be border shutdowns and controls, policies. But also, we've benefited from some form of government assistance, both that of federal government and also state government level. Through the year, however, our focus on our strategic response to the year has been really built around some very key principles: Firstly, being very disciplined -- overtly disciplined on the management of our cash; secondly, being continue to focus on our business simplification that we announced during FY '19; and then, of course, ensuring that we are ready to respond to our ever-changing operating environment and also ensuring that we are able to respond and take advantage of the prevailing conditions once the industry starts to recover. Turning to Slide 5 and an FY '20 financial snapshot. And of course, Owen will go through these figures in more detail for you in a minute. But whilst so adversely affected by COVID-19 and also the Australian bushfires and then plus the different responses to those -- the pandemics, the group still was able to generate $87.4 million in revenue from close to 300,000 customers, which led to an underlying EBITDA of $7.3 million. At year-end, our cash and cash equivalents was at $12.5 million, and our net debt was at $9 million, whilst our NTA per share was $0.119. Our statutory loss from continuing operations is at $39.7 million loss. But what's worth talking to here is that the majority of this loss, $35.7 million of that, is noncash and a paper change impairment and fair value movements, which Owen will talk to in a minute. Turning to Slide 6 and updating you on our business simplification process, which we announced during the course of FY '20 as being a key part of our strategic response for the business. The pandemic provided us with an opportunity for the remainder of FY '20 to really measure the business in 2 distinct phases in response. Quarter 3 was really all around controlling our costs. And we had been well advanced as we updated you during our half year financial results and throughout the year on pulling out more than $6 million in annualized cost savings, which also allowed us to attack that cost base further by really looking at reducing operating expenditure and other fixed costs, such as leases, usage charges and also the mothballing of unprofitable experiences. Quarter 4 was really about the painful process of standing down 90% of our workforce whilst also participating in the available Wage Subsidy programs launched by both the Australian and New Zealand governments. And also and very importantly, working with the Australian state governments and New Zealand governments on being able to restart our business as quickly as possible during that quarter of FY '20. As we stand here today, our strategy is all about executing our recovery, and we've been very fortunate as a business that we've been able to restart our operations on a staggered basis from late May. And we've seen certainly for skydiving in Australia a very good response in drop zones, such as Wollongong and Noosa and also Airlie Beach. We've also been very fortunate that we have such an engaged and passionate workforce who, throughout all of this, have played a critical role in supporting the company's efforts to return to business quickly, and we are still actively engaged in further discussions with both the Queensland and New Zealand governments on further industry support for our business. Turning to Slide 7 and asset divestments. As you know, another key part of our strategy for our business was around the disposal of noncore assets during the course of FY '20. And during the course of the year, we've been able to complete the vast majority of this program of the results, which have generated in excess of $21 million in capital being able to be released and significantly reduced our business' debt. We're still in active discussions on other noncore assets, properties and vehicles that will further reduce our debts during the course of this financial year, but it's very important to note that none of these divestments will impair our ability to grow as demand increases throughout the financial year. Finally, before I hand over to Owen, I'd also like to quickly update you on Slide 8 around some business improvement initiatives that we've been able to either complete or well advanced in completing during quarter 4 of the last financial year. And as I alluded before, we've been able to use this time to further drive these business improvements. A key focus of our commercial team under the leadership of Kathryn O'Brien has been about improving the margins on our cost of goods sold by renegotiating the majority of our key supplier contracts with our trade partners. We've also now been able to implement the installation of a new and improved reservation system with IBIS across skydive New Zealand. And by the middle of September, this will be in place for the Australian Skydiving business. And importantly, we've maintained an absolute discipline on our pricing, particularly for skydiving, but also our Great Barrier Reef experiences. And that provides our premium position in both of those verticals in the market. We've also ensured that our business also has the right technology platforms, not only to drive growth, but also to ensure that our people are supported. And we've commenced and are close to completing the implementation of a new payroll, a new safety database and learning and development systems. We've upgraded a number of our operating websites and importantly, now installed CALUMO to ensure more timely financial reporting and cash monitoring internally within the business. So I'd now like to hand over to Owen, who will take you through our financial results in a little bit more detail.

Thanks, John, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. As we're all aware, and John has given a good introduction, unsurprisingly, FY '20 has not met the expectations we had as we went into the year both at the financial and certainly in terms of what has eventuated in real life. At the half year, we flagged the emerging impact of COVID-19 in our results, and that has certainly transpired, which lead to our market update in late May and have all lived through over the recent months. I guess when we look at the numbers in our business, it's hard to articulate on the page exactly how that has transpired. It has been very much month-to-month. But the one thing that has been the cornerstone of managing this business is back in January, February, we rapidly transitioned to a stringent cash flow management approach, which John introduced earlier. These external factors were ones that weren't going to go away quickly, and they're going to have a significant impact on our business, but also our industry. So the strategy from January onwards was very much one of preserving the progress on net debt reduction. So it seems unusual to put that on a performance slide, but that certainly has been a key focus of management through this period. That resulted in us not losing too much ground that we'd already made up of our pro forma net debt, which, you may recall, is at $7.3 million as we turned out of December, and we ended the year at $9 million, a significant reduction on the prior year that you can see on the page. Revenue from continuing operations did decline by close to 33%, with a combination of weather back in the first quarter, which now seems like a lifetime ago, which was soon superseded by the external factors created by the Australian bushfires and then, once again, by COVID-19. The period saw us effectively shut in April and May. So that was, I think, the business was in 0 revenue and 0 volume. And as we look forward, we expect that COVID-19 will continue to impact our business significantly in the short term. International business remains a key component of our business, and we've built ourselves on that. And while we anticipate domestic activity recovery, that will be constrained as long as borders remain closed. In our results, it does include the impact of an impairment -- a noncash impairment that John alluded to there. That is really a reflection of what the COVID-19 event means for tourism in our industry, our business for the coming years, particularly in the short term. But as John alluded to there, let's not get overly excited about reading too much into this number as the industry here, when we're back on our feet in FY '23, '24, we hope to remain at the exact same capacity that we left within FY '19. So at the underlying EBITDA level, you'll see there that we turned to half $9.1 million. We gave away $1.8 million in the second half, which included $1.3 million bad debts, which was really due to the rapid transition in the market, which had a big impact on our trade distribution partners, and you would have seen about in the press around the business models and the cash funding model to predominate that industry. As a reference point for you, we were tracking quite well even to the end of February, where we gained another $2 million on the half at the underlying EBITDA line, which just shows the magnitude of the reversal of fortunes as bad debt and then the closure of business came into play for the final months of the year. We're very pleased to have received Jobkeeper and Wage Subsidy programs in Australia and New Zealand with revenues of $3.4 million and a net benefit that we estimate to be in the order of $0.6 million in relation to this. It's important to remember that the majority of our staff were on stand down. So we're not a super beneficiary here of reporting a super profit as a result of operations, but we certainly welcome the opportunity that Jobkeeper and Wage Subsidy has given for our employees. It has been instrumental in keeping the workforce together, and could -- we could not have reactivated as quickly as we had without it. In the near term, we'll remain focused on cash profitabilities that can be achieved based on the emerging market trends. So from a financial perspective, and we'll turn to our broader strategy as we exit for the outlook, it's best summed up by maintaining the capacity of the business that we're in a position to scale up in recovery and execute demand as and when it becomes available. Moving on to Slide 11. This skydive result here was principally volume-led, with the corresponding impact on cost leverage flowing through the underlying EBITDA. In the second half of the year, we saw a really strong start in North Queensland, New Zealand, while on the eastern seaboard from Byron Bay South, we saw it constrained by the Australian bushfires. As at today, we've recommenced activities at 8 drop zones in Australia. And our NZone product, being our flagship in the New Zealand skydiving market and globally, recommenced on the 28th of May, with Skydive Wanaka opening up in the month of July. We've spent a considerable amount of assets positioning the price point of the portfolio and our distribution structures, which John has spoken to already, to ensure that we're capitalizing on our cost base of the current environment and the lower volumes that we expect as we go through initial stages of recovery. A key element of this strategy is not discounting skydiving product in Australia but being prepared to flex for a price-sensitive domestic consumer that we're going to be seeing in New Zealand in the immediate term while international borders remain closed. One thing I'd like to make absolutely clear here is the Australian Skydive business has been the engine room for returning the group's underlying EBITDA breakeven for the month of July, and we expect that to be the continuing trend in the immediate term. Moving on to GBR Experiences on Slide 12. GBR Experiences is, for those unfamiliar, is the segment focused very much on Tropical North Queensland and highly reliant on travel into the Cairns Airport from both international and domestic audiences. In the second half of the year, we were encouraged by increased domestic activity, which led to improved conditions on the prior year for the December and January months. But that was quickly hit by, firstly, the closure of the China group market in late January, followed by the closure of the international border to China in early February, and then we all know what happened to the international border from May in domestic travel. This market is typically, in terms of our product, a fixed schedule market. We run the same services each day, same capacities. This has not been able to be achieved in this period, and we spent a lot of work, led by the General Manager of GBR Experiences, Adam Jones, to flex schedules, workforce, vessel capacity in ever-changing demand and social distancing environments. We certainly welcome the Queensland government's support for the region, which has included concessions from Ports North, the statutory authority responsible for the Cairns marina, our main cost base for rentals, and the rent relief they have provided. And we're also delighted to be named an iconic tourism business under the Queensland government tourism icons program, which will provide up to $1 million for us -- to assist us through the COVID recovery phase. That all said, moving forward, the uncertainty remains on the Queensland government pathway to unrestricted travel in the immediate term, with September school holidays looking highly unlikely and possibly a constraint as we head into Christmas and January period. That said, through the long term, we remain steadfast making it attractive market to be in. On the balance sheet, Slide 13. We continue to focus on debt. Debt is the big story here. With a net debt of $9 million at 30 June, we've continued to make further headway into August, and I'll come to that in a moment. We leave the year with net assets held for sale, that being our assets on the asset divestment program, of $7.3 million. And already since 30th of June, we've executed on $1.1 million of those, leaving us with just over $6 million to execute and, once again, as John alluded to, without impacting the earnings capacity of the business as we enter the recovery period. As you'd expect, the dialogue has been ongoing with our incumbent lender, the NAB, and I'd like to thank them for their support today and acknowledge their pragmatism in helping us work through the strategic review. But also in these very uncertain times, with forecasting remains never-changing proof. So we thank them for their support. In looking at the balance sheet before we go into cash flow here, there's an encouraging gain as we go through July and August, and John will come to those. But we still work in an environment where we're governed by next week's news and events, and we'll continue to respond to that as and when it emerges. Moving on to Slide 14, and hopefully, everyone appreciates the artwork on the slide. But rather than giving you statutory cash flow, I thought it more prudent for John and I to present how we look at the business and how we've taken the business from $29.4 million net debt that we entered the year on to today having net debt of $7.8 million despite the most challenging circumstances. If I look at this page, without getting into too much of the detail, the first phase at 31 December pro forma is all about the strategic review and executing the divestment path. The second phase from 31 December to 30 June is about preserving the gains we made and continuing to edge away at reducing that exposure. You'll see there that we didn't give away a lot in the second half, which may come as a surprise. And certainly, we leave the period very pleased, albeit tracking behind where we would have liked to have been from ending the period, but very pleased with the progress and continue to be so. In our last update at May, we noted the monthly cash burn rate of approximately $1 million cash-out for a month. And we've bought in the June results ahead of expectations. Today, we have reset our internal targets to cash breakeven, and we'll continue to remain mindful and respond to operating conditions whilst COVID remains at play. I'll now turn back to John for the trading update and outlook.

Thanks very much, Owen. Before we hand over to the group for questions, I thought it'd be prudent to give you both the trading update and also how we're looking at the outlook for the business as we move through FY '21. Look, concerning the context of the trading update, I think it's important to reaffirm, and many of you noticed already, that the first quarter of every financial year for us is always the lowest trading period -- rate period for our business. And pleasingly, since July, we've been able to operate with the exception of our Victorian drop zone, our drop zone of Glenorchy in New Zealand, all of our drop zones and all of our Great Barrier Reef experiences are now operating. What this has meant in terms of performance for July, that on an underlying EBITDA measurement, we have been profitable for the first time since February. As you can see from Slide 16, July 2020 saw prior -- compared to prior volumes or prior year comparisons for Skydive in Australia about a 37% of the previous year and a 48% result in New Zealand. Now I should counter that New Zealand's 19% result in July was built heavily around weather events -- but still, it shows a pleasing performance, with only 2 of the 3 drop zones operating. And our experiences in the Great Barrier Reef were in and around 20%. Directionally for all this, for volumes, we're seeing very similar trends to what we've experienced within July. And as Owen has alluded to before, our net debt position is around that $7.8 million mark. Turning to Slide 17. And again, I appreciate the artwork on this. I mean I think the key thing to emphasize here is that we're still operating in a very fast-changing and ever-evolving environment as we've seen in recent times by what's been happening in Victoria or what's been happening on the North Island of New Zealand. That said, for the medium term, we still remain very optimistic about the business and the prospects for this business because we do know that once domestic travel demand returns and then followed by international demand returns, that our business, possibly better than it did before, is well positioned to take advantage of this demand. And also remembering that the underlying consumer demand for experiences, in many respects, has never been greater, particularly as people emerge from the United States. For us, the way that we're looking at the recovery for the industry from a COVID perspective is really built around 3 things: Firstly, it's built in around the response to the pandemic, the control of community transmission and also how the government responds to ongoing outbreaks with inside the community; secondly, it is around border control, not only internationally, but very importantly, within Australia, what is the national policy on border movements and the free flow of people in between our interstate markets; and then, of course, the key driver of aviation capacity, how that returns domestically both in Australia and also in New Zealand, but also then internationally into the key gateway markets of Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne and also in Auckland. For us, in terms of growth drivers and looking at how do we take the business forward, a key part of our strategy for this financial year and also into FY '22, we'll be looking around 3 things. We are still acquisitive. We are looking for the right opportunities in the Australian and New Zealand market, and we have a number of ongoing discussions in that experience vertical that also associated with adventure. That said, though, as you can appreciate, COVID-19 has made that process a little more difficult than previously before from both the logistics, but also a commercial perspective, but we're still working through that. We're also focusing on new product development within our own business. I think one of the things that we have the opportunity of looking at now is that we have good scale within our skydiving business and also our marine products, and there are some opportunities where we're building on at the moment in and around new products. And then finally, as I emphasized earlier on in the presentation, is in and around our product positioning. We are unashamedly proud of our positioning within the skydiving -- the stand in skydiving industry in both Australia and New Zealand. We have the best equipment, the best drop zones, the best tandem masters, and we intend to continue our pricing discipline in and around that business. And equally, on the Great Barrier Reef, we have some of the best products operating out of Cairns and Port Douglas on a daily basis, and that will continue to be a key part of our growth strategy as we move through FY '21. So thank you once again, ladies and gentlemen, for your time this morning. We do, as always, appreciate your interest in the business. Can I just finish off today before we take questions on thanking and acknowledging the broader team at EXP, many of whom have made great personal sacrifices during FY '20 and also to both the Australian and New Zealand governments and various state governments within Australia who have supported our business through programs like Jobkeeper and the Wage Subsidies as we navigate through what has been a very exceptional and extraordinary year. So with that, I'll conclude the formal part of our presentation, and Owen and I are happy to take any questions you may have. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question today comes from Allan Franklin with Canaccord Genuity.

Just 3 questions, if I may. Just a first one in terms of domestic tourism and making the most of the sort of opportunity at hand. Could you talk to any sort of targeted marketing or sort of campaigns that you might be sort of running in Cairns or Queenstown? In particular, I mean, I do notice Qantas are running 55 return flights in August to Cairns, which is a market sort of pickup on recent months. Do you have any sort of comments on that?

Look, I mean I think the thing for us is we have been consistently marketing to the domestic market through -- particularly through the channels where we know that, that 18- to 24-year old market for skydiving, which is our core market, in our engine room, if you like, on platforms such as Facebook and such as Instagram. We've also, as we see from time to time within our business, offered specific campaigns. So for example, for skydive in Australia at the moment, we're running a target Father's Day campaign because we do know that that's a popular time for our business. In and around specific geographical campaigns, we do work very closely with the local tourism boards in destinations like in Queenstown and also Wanaka as well as Tourism Tropical North Queensland in Cairns and then throughout Australia, so bodies like Destination Wollongong, and we continue to work with our trade partners. So if I say anything, one of the areas that I think we've been very active in during the pandemic and as we've come out of the pandemic is, I guess, is that marketing. And that's why our new reservation system in New Zealand also, which will, in mid-September, come into the Skydive business in Australia is very important. And we've also, in North Queensland with our reservation system, put them all onto one platform for the first time in the business. And that's also going to help us with the direct channels to customers as well.

And Allan, it's Owen here. I might just add another layer to that, which is evident in the numbers we see. So you have to -- and traditionally, we've spoken about a bias to probably aviation capacity driving the short-term volume. I think it's probably worth throwing out, Australia's skydiving is very much driven by self-drive market at the moment. And I think you mentioned there the Qantas example with -- as we're all -- may not be aware that John and I live and breathe this every day. Queensland is predominantly an intrastate market at the moment. There is a slight increase in capacity from Adelaide and areas like that, but that's not going to shift the needle or the key for us. No matter how much money we could spend on marketing, we'll actually just have in that Victoria and New South Wales patronage open up, and that will be the key driver of where we start to see the volume return.

Yes. And just a follow-up maybe. In terms of any color you can provide on how you're sort of thinking about price and price elasticity and are most of the sort of volumes coming through on weekend's experiences and obviously, closed during the week and in sort of a push onto the Friday, Saturday, Sunday? Is that sort of how you're running a lot of the drop zones?

So just answering the first question in and around pricing. One of the key decisions we took as a company coming out of COVID-19, particularly in Australia with both the reef and also skydiving, was to maintain our pricing. And particularly in and around the Skydiving business, which is -- in Australia is really is the engine room for us right now, we made a deliberate choice not to price discount in a material way. And certainly, in some drop zones, we've actually increased our pricing, and we haven't seen an adverse impact to that. As I said before, we unashamedly believe that our skydiving product in Australia is a premium product. The same goes for New Zealand. And we've seen in July and August the volumes that we spoke about earlier before. And on the reef, we have similarly kept our pricing at pre-COVID levels because we don't believe that discounting our way out of it is necessarily the right -- is the right strategy because we are, at the moment, also benefiting from the fact that our direct channels are now accounting for close to 80% of our business, which I think is really important for us to take advantage of that. In relation to frequency and volumes, naturally, this has been evolving. So if I look at -- our Wollongong drop zone is consistently now running 7 days a week. Our Noosa drop zone is consistently running between 5 and 7 days a week. And interestingly, up in Airlie Beach, we're seeing the same. In other drop zones, we're seeing probably a more infrequent usage of those drop zones. But we basically made the decision, as we alluded to in May, that we would only operate drop zones and services if they are making money or if they are cash-accretive when they're operating, and we've held that discipline. So some are working, like Mission Beach in Cairns, consistently operating on weekends. But when we get into holiday periods, that may extend out to 4 days. Byron Bay will be a drop zone. Once the Queensland border reopens, it will go back to being consistently a 7-day a week operation. On the water and the reef, it's the same principle. We operate frequencies dictated by demand, but some services have returned to 7-day week operations such as Fitzroy Island is now operating consistently 7 days a week. And on weekends, we're operating, too. That's all about to the island.

Yes. Sure. And last, just a quick one. On CapEx, if you can sort of comment on how you're thinking about that over the next period?

Yes. Look, I'll answer that one, Allan. I think it's a good question. And it's one that you'll see in the cash bridge that we presented here. That's been one area that we've looked to scale back. So obviously, we've decreased activity. We can bring that in. So look, it will continue to respond, and I think that's the caveat on everything at the moment. But I'm looking at more of a number in the order of $3 million to $4 million, so down on previous years, and that certainly won't have us going backwards. But equally, there's an opportunity at this time as the market is not moving around too much and we're not bringing as much volume in. But there might be some strategic opportunities to bring services in such as a barge or a vessel off the water and do a survey, do a refit and get ready for the post-COVID recovery. But none of that is expected to be in the order of millions and millions. We are looking at one project in particular around our pontoon product up on the reef, but that will continue to emerge over the coming months.

Your next question comes from John O'Shea with Ord Minnett.

Well done on -- certainly on getting the balance sheet back in order, guys. It was a good effort in circumstances. Just a question from me on the slide, I think 16 it was, where you talked about the July '20 kind of passenger numbers versus previous period and GBR Experiences versus pcp, noting the fact that you said that was breakeven EBITDA. So could we sort of draw the natural conclusion there that that's the sort of numbers that relate to a breakeven type scenario? Is that norm -- and I appreciate the fact that they're fairly quiet months, but should we be thinking about that in broad terms across the full year as those sort of numbers as being the ones that would deliver a breakeven EBITDA across the full period?

Yes. Look, I think that's a good question, actually, John, and thanks for joining. I think that is a good way of doing it. And that's certainly -- when we've been looking at the numbers and the reason for putting that in to give us all a bit of a sense check there. And obviously, the mix -- the one thing I would say that -- so in short, yes, I think that is a good way of looking at it. The one thing I'm very mindful of, and we retract to our team almost weekly, is around just be careful with percentages at this point in time because they're small numbers. And when you use the percentage, we all know where you end up. So with that caveat -- but I think directionally, yes, that's right. We will have the cost base naturally shifting around as Jobkeeper tails back. It's not going to be hugely significant for us, though, month-to-month, and then the rent relief. But we've seen some positive signals out of Queensland at the landlords such as Ports North. And I would say more broadly, landlords have been very cooperative with us, recognizing that -- the difficult situation that as a tourism supplier we're in at the moment.

Yes. Just a second question from me on the kind of debt profile. How you're sort of seeing -- correct me if I missed this in there, but the profile of the debt and any immediate sort of needs to -- the maturity profile?

Yes. Look, I think how we're looking at that, I think, look, the first thing I'd say is we speak to the NAB very regularly on this, and they've been with us since we started the strategic review. So it's probably a bit unique that we're not speaking to them just in the context of COVID. It's been an overall debt reduction exercise that we've been undertaking here. When we look at the maturity there, I think maybe the way I think, I hope to sort of step ahead of the game until we sign final documents. But with NAB, certainly, I'm not thinking that we're going to have a situation where the rug pulled from beneath us, for example, John. I think that's just not going to happen, quite frankly. And then around -- and that's on the corporate debt. I think in terms of that, as we sell-down the assets, we'll be looking to apply the additional funds to that. And in the short term, we'll be using any operating cash flow gain just to sort of beat into that corporate debt. I actually feel quite comfortable with the finance lease arrangement here, which is a pretty even profile. They're backed by assets that, yes, they're not worth as much as what they were 12 months ago, but they're worth more than what the financing is on them. So that's helpful to sort of -- we're not an overleveraged. It's not something I lose sleep at on the debt maturity.

Your next question comes from Sudipta Ghosh with Wilsons.

A couple of questions from me, please. Firstly, on the competitive environment in North Queensland, are you seeing any impacts from STA Travel going into administration? And can you just talk to the broader competitive landscape that you're seeing there around any of your competitors potentially struggling in that market?

Yes. Okay, I'll pick that one. So -- it's Owen here. So in terms of STA Travel, that's -- it's almost a red herring for us, I think. Don't read anything into that. There may be little pockets of exposures. But, look, they're not a big trading partner of ours. And I can look at -- Kathryn's getting my attention and saying not an issue at all. It's very minor. So that's one. So with the competitive situation, I'll get John to just follow up here. But what we've seen -- and this is not just North Queensland. Even in Queenstown, even in other parts of Australia is these government programs for our industry in tourism, there is a lot of people who are being kept afloat by Jobkeeper and Wage Subsidies and the various support programs available, particularly in the SME space. In fact, if you're an SME, it's probably easy to have financing relief with your bank as well. So it's not like we're being flooded with opportunities, John, that we're looking at and saying, "Look, at that capital structure is emerging." But that -- the game is going longer now, and that's the phrase we're using internally is that we'll remain patient. And if there are good assets, we've got our eyes open to anything. So I can speak for John here in knowing how many conversations he has on looking at competitive landscapes and what the opportunities are there.

Look, I think the broader competitive landscape up in North Queensland, you're not really getting a true picture of this because, as Owen said, programs like Jobkeeper, programs such as the various rental relief programs that the Queensland government has put in place, even some of the programs that the federal government has put in place, and there's been some industry support packages that have been provided to certain operators in Queensland -- or North Queensland, particularly. I don't think you're going to get a true view of that probably until we get into September. I think there's a couple of points coming up. September, when we see the first reduction in the Jobkeeper rate, and then, obviously, in March when we see it come to a completion currently. As Owen said, for us, it's been very welcome, but it hasn't been something that has been -- we're not sort of sitting here relying on this because of the way that we're trading. But I think that's when you'll start to see it. Some operators have got frequencies that are similar to ours up in North Queensland. Some are still in mothball. Some are just trading on and operating 7 days a week, but with a handful of numbers. So it's varied across the industry up there. And I also think a lot of operators up there are going to wait to see what happens with the Queensland school holidays to see how they go out of that and whether or not they can sustain themselves through to December and January, which, I think, for North Queensland will probably be a more popular time than ever before because it will be a time when people just want to get away and get to a different part of Australia, of course, if they can.

And just a second question for me. Can you provide any color at all on the Skydiving split across Australia and New Zealand? I understand that used to be disclosed previously, so any color at all around that.

In terms of volume today? Or is that...

Yes, volumes. Potentially profitability as well.

Yes. So we've done it in a sort of combined segment, which is why we disclose it that way. So you'll see given the scale of the business now, we're not trying to present too much information as we go through this period into Australia and New Zealand, but certainly comfortable at the volume level because that's where the costs don't get blending and distort margins. The volume level for FY '20, we did about -- of the 127.7 -- 127,700 [indiscernible] of that, just under 89,000 were in Australia and just under 39,000 were in New Zealand. In terms of price points in Australia, you're looking at an average yield that we got, I think, revenue per taxes, just over $400. And then in New Zealand, it drives up that high line so you get that number. Generally, we'll track closer to $500. Historically, that is. Now as we move forward, that yield will come back as that market is constrained with the domestic audience, and that's where the demand will be playing around a bit there in the short term as well. But -- so I think it'd be fair to sort of look at sort of Skydiving segment overall, which we expect to be in that sort of 20% to 25% if we have low volume. And then hopefully, if we can get the volumes up more, we'll approach the more historical rates of just under 30%.

There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back over to Mr. O'Sullivan for closing remarks.

Thank you again, ladies and gentlemen, for your time, and thank you again for your interest in Experience Co. And I hope all of you have a great weekend and great rest of the week and don't forget to book a skydive or go in one of our reef products. We'd love to have you. No discounts there. Thank you.

This concludes our conference for today. Thank you for your participation.