Experience Co Limited (EXP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Experience Co Limited Financial 2024 Full Year Results. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. John O'Sullivan, CEO. Please go ahead.

Thanks, Dave. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for your attendance today at Experience Co's FY '24 results call. As Dave alluded to, my name is John O'Sullivan, CEO of Experience Co. And with me today is Gavin Yates, our CFO. The structure of this morning's call is as outlined in your presentation packs on Slide 3. I'll provide a short update on the business performance over the course of the financial year. I'll then hand over to Gavin, who will provide a more fulsome review of the financial results. And then finally, I will close out the presentation with a quick trading update based on our July trading results. And then of course, we are happy to take your questions. Turning firstly now to Slide 5. During the financial year 2024, Experience Co saw an overall improvement in both its revenues and earnings for the year compared to PCP. Sales revenue increased by 17% to $127 million, whilst our underlying EBITDA result post AASB 16 improved by 27% to $14.4 million. Both of these metrics are at the highest levels since the onset of the pandemic. The key driver of our earnings result remains our Adventure Experience business unit. However, we saw a noticeable increase in the earnings performance of our Skydive business unit, both of which Gavin will cover in his presentation shortly. Cash and cash equivalents ended the financial year at $8.2 million, whilst net debt was $8.9 million. Turning now to Slide 6. The year demonstrated the resilience and diversity of our trading platform in that despite significant weather impacts experienced due to tropical cyclone Jasper, as well as record rainfalls experienced in New South Wales during quarter 4, we saw continued improvement in the business, particularly in our Skydive segment. Skydive continues to enjoy the return of the international traveler to both Australia, and in particular, into New Zealand. The growth we are seeing in this segment is primarily driven by the New Zealand business given the stronger than pre-pandemic levels of visitation to Queenstown. By comparison, Australia with its largest domestic exposure and greater diversity of sites has experienced more moderated growth during the year. On the Great Barrier Reef, despite the impacts of tropical cyclone Jasper and the associated flooding and a slower-than-expected start in the financial year, we have seen this business unit recover strongly during the second half due to strong performances from our new pontoon, Reef Magic, Big Cat Green Island, as well as good recovery during quarter 4 in the Port Douglas market. Our Treetops Adventure segment traded consistently despite being heavily impacted in New South Wales, which contains the majority of our sites in quarter 4, as well as seeing our Cape Tribulation site off-line during January through to March. A highlight of the year was the opening of our 16th location in Canada, and we continue to focus on the development of the organic pipeline of this business, and we continue to be very encouraged by the performance of this new site. Finally, our premium Adventure segment experienced a disappointing year due to general softness in both the walking and premium lodging divisions of the business unit. This was primarily due to a general slowdown in the category across Australia, driven by Australian outbound travel and associated macroeconomic impacts. Turning to Slide 7, as we updated the market during our quarter 4 trading update, Australia's inbound story continues to improve with aviation capacity arrivals and purpose of travel metrics, all at near-time highs since the onset of the pandemic. In New Zealand, the South Island continues to trade exceptionally well, with Queenstown now well exceeding 2019 levels in respect to arrivals by Queenstown Airport. Finally, turning to Slide 8, before I hand over to Gavin. This slide demonstrates the recovery across our key inbound visitor markets to Australia, which shows that whilst overarchingly, the recovery is still well underway for most of our key markets at 80% or above, the key markets for Experience Co of China, Japan, Hong Kong and Malaysia still have some ways to go before being back to 2019 levels. This highlights a significant opportunity that remains for our company in the year ahead. I'll now hand over to Gavin for him to take you through the financial results in more detail. Thank you.

Thank you, John, and good morning, everyone. Turning to Slide 10, financial performance. The FY '24 results are consistent with the Q4 trading update released to the ASX platform on the 31st of July. FY '24 represented a year of continued recovery and growth for Experience Co. Revenue of $127 million, representing growth of 17% versus PCP, and underlying EBITDA of $14.4 million, representing growth of 27% versus PCP, represent the group's strongest performance since the onset of the pandemic. Pleasingly, this has been achieved despite significant weather impacts during the year, particularly tropical cyclone Jasper and above-average rainfall in New South Wales in Q4 and a challenging economic environment. Growth during the year has been driven by the continued recovery of volumes and improved operating leverage for the Skydiving segment with total Skydiving segment volumes of approximately 114,000, up 27% versus PCP. Our Adventure Experiences segment remained the largest contributor to group earnings and also achieved earnings growth versus PCP, albeit to a lesser extent than skydiving, which represents a resilient performance given the challenging trading conditions during the year. Whilst operating leverage was evident with higher volumes, we continue to work on initiatives to improve the efficiency of our operations and corporate cost base to further enhance margins. The group's reported loss before tax was $2 million, which includes $1.4 million of net costs relating to items not considered part of ordinary activities and which are not included in underlying EBITDA with further details provided in Note 4 of our FY '24 financial statement. As John said, net debt was $8.9 million at 30 June, and that represented a 2.1% increase, which I'll talk to on an upcoming slide. Turning to Slide 11, Skydiving. Our Skydiving segment continued its recovery in FY '24, aided by the return of inbound markets. Growth in segment underlying EBITDA to $7.2 million in FY '24 was driven by improved volumes and operating leverage. Total segment volumes of approximately 114,000 in FY '24 represented circa 59% of pre-pandemic levels with Q4 reaching circa 64%. Volume growth was more pronounced in New Zealand with 61% growth versus PCP, mainly due to the strong return of inbound markets to the Queenstown Wanaka region since borders reopened. Skydive Australia's volume recovery continued with 14% growth versus PCP. However, its domestic international customer volume split is currently similar to FY '19 levels, indicating both domestic and inbound markets are lagging FY '19. Pleasingly, average revenue per passenger and photo and video penetration improved in both markets across the year. However, we expect that domestic cost of living pressures are currently having some impact on domestic volumes in Australia, so we continue to monitor pricing closely and implement tactical pricing at times to help drive domestic volumes. Operating efficiency also remains an ongoing priority focus area for Skydiving. And whilst operating leverage was evident with rising volumes, we continue to work on initiatives to improve the efficiency of our operations and optimize capacity for changes in demand. Turning to Slide 12, Adventure Experiences. As noted earlier, the Adventure Experiences remained the largest contributor to group earnings and also achieved earnings growth despite the challenging trading conditions. Growth in segment underlying EBITDA to $14.1 million in FY '24 was driven by a strong performance for Reef Unlimited despite the impact of tropical cyclone Jasper. Reef Unlimited's revenue increased 15% versus PCP, which reflected a combination of volume growth of 7% and average revenue per customer growth of 6%. In part, the average revenue per customer was driven by a strong performance from our Reef Magic pontoon, which has traded reasonably very well during the second half of the year and noting that it's the newest and most technology advanced pontoon on the Great Barrier Reef. Pleasingly, Reef Unlimited saw continued growth in inbound markets, which represented circa 40% of customers in FY '24 versus circa 23% in FY '23 with further growth anticipated in line with the ongoing recovery of inbound markets. As can be seen in the bottom right chart, the year for Treetops Adventure was characterized by a stronger first quarter and third quarter performance and second -- and a softer second quarter and fourth quarter performance compared to PCP, with fourth quarter heavily impacted by above-average rainfall in New South Wales. Despite this, total volumes increased 2% versus PCP due to a combination of contribution from new sites and resilient volumes at existing sites despite the heavy rainfall during peak trading periods. Treetops Adventure's average yield per customer remained consistent with PCP with custom mix having an impact and despite price increases being implemented during the year. Wild Bush Luxury revenue and volume was down on PCP, as it experienced softer demand from the peak trading experience in FY '22 post-pandemic, but we remain optimistic that segment will recover as demand normalizes given the quality of our Arkaba, Bamurru Plains in Marrara and experiences. As John will touch on shortly, we've recently seen some green shoots with improved trading in July, particularly for Bamurru Plains. Management's focus remains on addressing Wild Bush Luxury performance, as well as optimizing the Treetops Adventure category and of course, sustaining the growth for Reef Unlimited. Turning to Slide 13, balance sheet and cash flow. Our balance sheet remains healthy with $8.2 million of cash at 30 June 2024. Operating cash flows increased versus PCP, in line with the improved trading performance. We continued to tightly control capital expenditure during the year with total capital expenditure at a lower level versus PCP. Key components of capital expenditure includes the scheduled aircraft and vessel maintenance activities, ongoing equipment renewal in our Skydiving and Treetops Adventure segments and development CapEx and related deferred consideration for our new Treetops Canberra site. Net financing cash flows in FY '24 included the refinancing of our corporate debt facilities in December 2023 and additional drawdowns primarily for organic growth projects in our Treetops Adventure's business, such as the new Canberra site, in line with our organic growth strategy. Net debt increased to 8.2%, which was 8.9%, sorry, which was in part influenced by the drawdowns for our organic growth projects just mentioned. As we reflect on FY '24, the December 2023 refinancing of our corporate debt facility represented a key milestone with its flexibility and undrawn capacity seeing the group well positioned to capitalize on rising volumes and growth opportunities. I'll now hand back to John.

Thanks, Gavin. Before we take questions, I'd now like to provide you with a quick look through of the trading update and outlook for the business. Turning firstly to Slide 15. Since 2022, our business has invested in organic opportunities across the portfolio, particularly across our Treetops Adventure and Reef Unlimited divisions. Since July of 2022, we have launched 3 new Treetops sites in Canberra, Cape Tribulation and Taronga Park Zoo. And despite the weather impacts in North Queensland and a slightly delayed start at Taronga, all have contributed significantly to the portfolio's volumes and earnings during FY '24. We are particularly excited about our Canberra site and the broader opportunity that this vertical presents. Up on the Great Barrier Reef, we have focused on 2 significant projects, the first being the recalibration and pricing of our Dreamtime dive and Snorkel experience, which has seen a doubling of volumes during FY '24 when compared to FY '23. The Remoora pontoon launched in March of 2022 also experienced strong growth in FY '24 with over a 40% increase on volumes on FY '23, and it has now become a significant part of the North Queensland business, as well as making great gains in the business events and corporate market on the Great Barrier Reef. Turning now to our final slide of the morning, Slide 16. Firstly, to July trading. The business's performance in July was particularly pleasing with a significant uplift to PCP in both revenue and underlying earnings with the business generating $10.6 million in revenue for a $1.5 million underlying EBITDA post the impact of AASB 16 leases. This was primarily driven by the Adventure Experience segment in line with the seasonality profile of Skydive, with all 3 business units within Adventure Experience's of Reef Unlimited, Treetops Adventure and Wild Bush Luxury recording strong earnings for the month. In particular, we were very encouraged by the performance of Wild Bush Luxury, which benefited from a 19% uplift in bookings of premium suites at Bamurru Plains. As you would know, quarter 1 is always a quieter period for Skydive and compounded by weather impacts, Australia had a slightly softer month than PCP. This said, however, New Zealand continued to trade strongly with volumes up on a PCP basis of 37%, benefiting from good weather and continued strong arrivals into the Queenstown region. As you would also know, in April, our business appointed E&P capital to undertake a strategic review, which is now underway. As we sit here today, we've been encouraged by the inbound interest received to date. However, we believe that it's premature to provide any further updates at this time. And as advised in April, we will update the market at the appropriate time in accordance with our continuous disclosure obligations. Finally, Board and management remain committed to the longer-term potential of the business. However, we continue to be mindful that the key sensitivity on the timing of this will be the rate of return of international tourists, as well as the performance of the Australian domestic market. Our focus in the meantime remains on maximizing cost efficiencies, margin improvement and minimizing of impact of cost pressures, particularly on our Skydive Australia segment, but also across the broader business. Due to the continued macroeconomic environment, no earnings guidance will be provided for FY '25. Thank you, again for your time this morning. And Gavin and I look forward to taking your questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from [indiscernible] with Ord Minnett.

In regards to the strategic review, is this open ended? Or is there a time line in mind for when that will come to an end?

Well, I think from where we're sitting, Patrick, as we said in the release, is that we'll update the market. We'll update the market when we think it's appropriate to do so. But we don't foresee that this being a process in perpetuity. But as I said, we'll update the market when we think it's appropriate.

And the next question comes from Allan Franklin with Canaccord Genuity.

Good to see that that's a July trading update and the sort of color on the EBITDA print. Wouldn't mind just doing a bit of a walk around of the different businesses, just to sort of understand the operating leverage or the sort of the scope there of moving forward, just sort of noting perhaps Adventure Experiences to start off with margins of about 22% at that top line level. It feels like Reef is performing particularly well, helped by -- helped by yields. Trees could do a bit better pending weather. Any sort of outtakes just in terms of Adventure Experiences first in terms of how you're thinking about that business and the sort of operating leverage opportunity standalone?

Well, I mean, I think you summed it up in terms of the summary, and as we said in the earlier part of the call, Allan, we were very pleased with the performance of Reef Unlimited, particularly given the impacts of weather. And as you said, we're seeing strong yield on a per passenger basis up there. We're seeing volumes now continuing to grow. And we -- certainly, from -- in July, we saw on a PCP basis, a stronger month up there in terms of volumes. And what we've seen is the transition between -- we've seen the transition between the international and the domestic market now start to be doing in a more normalized way. So in a high-level summary, very happy with that. As you identified, look, Trees has been very consistent. We've still got work to do on that. But again, when you take into consideration that 7 of the last 8 weekends in Sydney during quarter 4 were impacted by rainfall, which is obviously a deterrent with that business. Again, we are reasonably okay, but we have some work to do on that, but also, in particular, looking at how do we increase dwell time, how do we increase more ancillary spend per customer within that business unit. And then with Wild Bush Luxury, what we saw, and this was something that was consistent across the segment, so that other operators saw also within Australia was that it was -- it really during that quarter 4 phase, particularly when Bamurru Plains is usually trading -- starting to trade -- trading strongly was that we saw quite an impact on Australians going outbound, and that's particularly for Bamurru market is -- was quite important. What we've seen in July was that market, it seems to have reversed. So that's something that we're watching and something that as a management group, where we're really focused on, particularly as we come into the start of the walking season in Tasmania and also in Arkaba, which will come to an end in October.

Yes. Helpful. And then probably just a similar line of conversation just within the Skydiving businesses, just noting New Zealand is obviously exiting the period in a pretty good position momentum-wise. So incrementally, I assume we would be able to see some sort of dollar value EBITDA creeping up in New Zealand, as well as some more operating leverage showing through there. And then, I guess, the big unknown just remains the Aussie Skydiving business and how volume cuts through.

Yes. Look, it's certainly a tale of 2 markets. We're seeing price per customer in New Zealand -- in New Zealand dollars at sort of over [ $500 ]. And what we have is we have some structural differences there and that we are the only operator in the Queenstown region. And as I said earlier in my opening comments, you have a destination in Queenstown, which has now recovered -- now recovered post-2019, and it's doing better than what it was in 2019, as a market. And you've got less of your market there is domestic Kiwis. So you've got some different structural factors paying out. In Australia, it's -- as you can see on the -- you can see on the presentation there that it is still growing in terms of volumes, but it's not growing as quickly as what we have seen, or we would like in -- over in New Zealand, and there's a number of factors for that. This business unit has always had a larger number, both from a percentage perspective and also an absolute volume perspective of domestic customers. So that's certainly something that's playing out. And if you talk to a lot of our distributors, they are saying that it is harder at the moment given the macroeconomic conditions for experiences that are priced over $150. So that's certainly where Skydive is. And we've also had a slower than we would have liked return of that Chinese market. So to give you some context around that, we're probably only sitting in FY -- in FY '24, we're only sort of sitting at about 40% of where our Chinese volumes were as compared to FY '19. And so, that's something that those 2 factors combined have been significant impacts on that business. That backpacker market has recovered a bit more quickly. So we're sort of sitting around that 70% of where it was in FY '19. So I guess, those factors are playing out in the Australian business. So that's something that is the key priority for us now is to really get in there and speed up that recovery. And as I said before, really focused on the management of costs in that business unit.

Helpful. And perhaps just one other question, just around the cash flows. Just to clarify the lease costs and if there's some moving parts in there, what sort of a normalized lease cost should look like? And any sort of color on to the CapEx intentions just sort of getting a bit of a feel for where the free cash flow breakeven point might be sort of implied it might be sort of you aren't that far away from a sort of mid- to high teens, just seems to be sort of a free cash flow break point -- breakeven point?

Yes. No, I think that's probably about right. I mean, I think in terms of the lease liabilities within that, if you unpack it, you've got the AASB 16 lease liabilities in there of about $3 million, and then the balance was the payout of our historical asset finance leases, as part of the refinancing at the start of the year. In terms of capital, look, this year, as I said earlier, the absolute level is lower than where it was last year. We have obviously tried to tightly control our CapEx this year, particularly given tropical cyclone in the middle of the year and just seeing how that played out over the second half. But we would expect it to sort of be in a similar order of magnitude going forward. We did include CapEx this year. We obviously had the development project with respect to the Canberra site, which is in there and the associated deferred consideration. But as we sort of mentioned, we continue our plans to continue that ongoing rollout of new sites moving forward. So all in all, it should be at a similar magnitude.

And the next question comes from Julian Mulcahy with E&P.

Just a couple of questions. I'm just trying to understand the operating leverage. Can you kind of talk through where sort of average loads per plane is sort of sitting at now and what the capacity is?

Sure. So yes, I guess, again, just sort of unpacking Australia and New Zealand, so I start with Australia. Look, on average, the yield is slightly less than 5%. It's probably in the order of, say, 4.7% for the year and it sort of stayed like that in a similar level over the course of FY '24. I think if you unpack that further, there is certain sites like Wollingong, which are closer towards [ 7 ], and they've been trading very well. But across the broader network, there are sites within that, that are at a lower level with the average across the network at that sort of approximately [ 4.7-ish ] range, which I quoted earlier. Across in New Zealand, again, it is a slightly different market. And what we've seen is historically, it's been in the order of, say, 7, and it's getting much closer to that at the moment, and it's been trading really well. In terms of the capacity of planes, look, there is -- there are different types of planes, but generally speaking, you've got -- we tend to say about [ 9 ] is probably typically the maximum that you would typically do. And -- but as I say, that's -- you don't typically run at 9 right throughout the year. That's -- the numbers you see are sort of a weighted average across peak, off-peak periods and across the broader network of sites during the year, but that's sort of where we're sort of sitting at the moment.

And what would you sort of guess is like the margin on the incremental revenue, [ which you get ] each new passenger in...

Come again. So the demand on the...

No, the margin on the incremental revenue.

Yes. I mean, obviously from a...

Because they -- if they're paying [ $500 of ] ride is that how much goes to the [indiscernible] pilot, sort of thing?

Yes. Look, I think if you back out the sort of the direct attributable variable costs, I mean, it will be a reasonably sort of high-margin incremental customer without unpacking the numbers too much. I think it's probably in the order of sort of 40% to 50%, I would have thought. But I haven't really sort of worked through that level of detail.

Yes. Cool. And just finally, on the technical pricing. I mean, there is always a risk when you start introducing sort of discounting [indiscernible] wait for those windows. What's the kind of risk of that in terms of slowing the recovery in the domestic business [indiscernible] [ discount officer ] to have a go?

I think it largely depends on the customer market that that's in that location. So where we've tried some tactical pricing, which certainly in July, it certainly responded well from a volume perspective was in places like Tropical North Queensland and Airlie Beach and also in Cairns, and we saw really good responses to those offers. And certainly, we've also -- you would see that we have [ midweek ] pricing versus weekend pricing, and that's designed to, I guess, mitigate some of those circumstances that you alluded to. But it really comes down to the customer group based on the location. So if you think about North Queensland, North Queensland at the moment, it's very much a high percentage of backpackers and working holiday makers in that region, whereas your more domestic drop zones like Noosa, certainly Newcastle, they have a different customer profile. So the pricing strategies are different by location.

The next question comes from Billy Boulton with Morgans.

I'm just interested in if you guys are hearing anything on the ground in China about the return of tourists into Australia, is it sounding positive? Is it signs there's going to be a pickup for the remainder of the year?

Yes. So certainly from our perspective, what we've been hearing is that overarchingly still positive in so far as returned to Australia or Australia as a destination. I guess, what is some of the feedback has been coming back of late has been that we're still seeing as quite an expensive destination to not only get to, but also once you're here, which is becoming more of a factor for that market than probably what it was back in 2019. We have also seen that there's been a lot of Chinese travel sort of more short-haul travel than long-haul travel, which is kind of expected as most markets opened up. But I guess it's been a bit more prevalent in the market recovery profile for China. But the overarching sentiment we're still hearing is positive in the longer term. It will just be really how it plays out over the next 24 months. But I guess, the underlying markets of aviation capacity are still pretty positive. We're seeing that, obviously, Sydney and Melbourne have recovered to close to pre-pandemic capacity. We're now starting to see the Chinese carriers start servicing to places like Brisbane and Perth, which were destinations that back in 2019 had regular scheduled services out of locations like Guangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai. And we're also seeing the return of a number of those seasonal services over that Lunar Year period. So I think on that basis, that the fact that the airlines are starting to live more capacity back towards Australia is that that's a positive indicator, a positive indicator as well.

Yes. And I guess, touching on that bit that it's quite -- it's quite expensive destination. Obviously, the China macro at the moment is pretty tough over there. Have you guys put any thought into does that upmarket ever recover to pre-COVID levels and what that might mean for the business?

Well, I think it does. In the longer term, it will recover to pre-COVID levels because we've seen other markets up in Europe that the markets do recover eventually. I mean, it's just the timing -- it's just the timing of that. So I guess, that's the way we're thinking about it. We don't think -- we don't think there's any underlying structural issue with the experiences, where we're offering to that Chinese market. So they're still showing great appetite for Adventure Experiences. They're still showing great appetite for marine-based experiences, whether it's here or in other destinations worldwide. So we don't think structurally, there is an issue. It's just more of a -- I think it's just more of a timing issue. But I guess, what I learned from my time at Tourism Australia was that it's a market that can move at scale and move very quickly. So it has that dynamic to it as well, which I think is yet to play out.

And the next question comes from [ David Kingston with KC Capital ].

Always good. Hope you can forgive me, I'm up in Singapore -- I'm up in Singapore, but the phone seems to work.

That's good.

John, I appreciate some of the challenges. But look, as we all know, the -- for a few -- last few years, you've been indicating that you're going to get back to $40 million EBITDA, well, you're a long way off that. Obviously, concerningly, John, there's effectively [ 0 ] free cash flow coming out of the business, which obviously is a concern. And the share price is trading at $0.15 compared to equity raising somewhere between $0.30 and $0.70 over the last few years. So look, I welcome what the company is doing of a strategic review. I think I mentioned to you a year or 2 ago, John, that I think the small businesses are a real distraction. You might notionally book a small profit. But when you take into account head office time, they are a total distraction, and I think you should never have bought into the small businesses. But if we look at the big ones, look, Reef is obviously going well. As you know, I've got a competitor up there, which makes plenty of money, good business makes plenty of money. So that's a good one. Treetops, I think, John, that's a business for individuals, owner-operators that you bought it from can quite often make more money out of them than you do, being a corporate with overheads, being a listed company, big overheads, and clearly, it's been a very disappointing acquisition, and yet you keep on pouring a lot of money into it. Skydiving, in my view, is better off owned by individuals like [ Bob East ] owned it, it made plenty of money. We keep on hearing about the weather issues. But look, they're going to continue to occur John, whether it's cyclones, in Cairns or bad weather in weekends in Sydney or weather impacting upon Skydiving. But the short fact is that Bob East when he ran it as an individual and a smaller listed company, he made good money out of Skydiving. At the moment, you're not making enough money out of Skydiving. Because if we really look at it, John, the Reef business makes good money, good quality business, but the rest of it is clearly overall losing money at a free cash flow line. Look, I'm not a huge holder, John, I'm probably about the sixth largest shareholder now, which is a small investment for me. But I'm just perplexed that the company continues to make excuses and continues to deliver effectively 0 free cash flow, which at the end of the day, is the [ test and need ] what free cash flow does it deliver? So look, I welcome the strategic review. I hope it's successful because I think the current structure of the company is wrong, and I think it needs the catalyst of sales or sale of the whole company to deliver shareholder value. So apologies for my direct comments, John, but I made a couple of comments a couple of years ago and the performance continues to be poor. And I just think it -- from a shareholder value point of view, needs to deliver a much better outcome. So that's my comment or question.

Well, a lot to unpack there, David. So I'll take it as a comment rather than a question. But obviously, we're looking at -- obviously, we're looking at things through the strategic review, which is announced. And obviously, that will go to a lot of the issues that you raised, and which I think is the purpose of the review. So we'll probably leave that there. Look, I'm sorry, I think there are excuses, but they have been legitimate impacts on our business. And we are, as I said in my closing comments, we are looking at -- we are looking at a number of things to improve the margins in the operating business, and I don't think anyone sort of here today sort of running around giving high fives to one another over the performance of the business. We want to do better. We're working hard to do that. And obviously, as the Board announced in April, the strategic review is a keep part of that. So -- but as always, welcome your comments and feedback and your insights. Thank you.

But John, if you look at the amount of capital raised, I don't have it in front of me, as I'm -- still I'm in Singapore at the moment, but the amount of capital raised over the last 3 years or 4 years, it's quite substantial. And I think you'd agree, it's embarrassing that the company is delivering virtually 0 free cash flow off the capital raised. It's good that you're debt-free. I spoke to Bob East recently, and I said, well done Bob East. I'm glad you raised capital for the acquisitions because if you'd done it via debt, the company wouldn't be around. But I just think there's a degree of urgency, John. And if you get anything half decent from the strategic review, selling the small businesses or breaking the company up or selling the whole company, I think from a shareholder value point of view, you should take it. I don't think it's a time to be precious and wait for some knockout blow. I think shareholders are suffering, not me. I bought a fairly recently at a low price. So I'm not winging or winning. I'm ahead. But I think a lot of shareholders are suffering. And I think the -- every year, there's reasons, John, reasons or excuses, take a pick why the free cash flow is not there, and the share price continues to suffer. But I think it's time to bring it ahead and deliver some shareholder value pretty quickly.

Thanks, David. All noted.

There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. O'Sullivan for any closing remarks.

Thank you for your time, and look forward to catching up with you again. Thank you.