FACC AG (1FC.MU) Q3 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome to today's earnings call of the FACC AG following the publication of the Q3 financial figures of 2025. I am delighted to welcome the CEO, Robert Machtlinger; CFO, Florian Heindl; as well as Michael Steirer from Investor Relations, who will start the presentation shortly. After the presentation, you will have the ability to place your questions in the Q&A session. And having said this, I hand over to you, Mr. Steirer.

Ingmar, thank you so much for the introduction. So good afternoon from my side as well, and thank you for joining us today for the earnings call for the third quarter of the fiscal year 2025 of FACC. As always, I'm joined by Robert Machtlinger, our CEO; and Florian Heindl, our CFO. And as usual, detailed financial information have already been published earlier today via our usual networks. Should we be unable to address all the questions during today's call due to some time constraints or whatsoever, we would be glad to arrange follow-up one-on-one discussions. In this case, please feel free to get in touch with our IR department. So Tanja or even myself, and we will arrange meetings, one-on-one meetings accordingly. So this said, I would like now to hand over to our CEO, Robert Machtlinger, and starting with some highlights out of the Q3 of FACC's fiscal year. Thank you so much.

Michael, thank you very much for the introduction. Dear ladies, dear gentlemen, good morning, good afternoon, good day wherever you are at the time being, very glad to have you now to this call. Talking about the first 9 months of the FACC fiscal year and of course, the quarter 3. As you all know, from past years, the third quarter in FACC is driven by seasonality, which is driven by the industry. So we normally have a little bit of a lower top line compared to the other quarters, simply driven by the fact that in July and August, some of our customers are reducing the output because of vacation period. In saying that, a few highlights, where we will elaborate a little bit more in detail in the next couple of minutes. But overall -- and this is positive. We are following the trends of the last couple of quarters and periods. The growth path is continuing. More details to follow in the next slides. Also, I'd be very happy to address the success of the implementation of FACC's Academy. We talked about it in recent calls. We have invested during the course of 2024 in setting up or adding to the previous established Academy a new facility, mainly focused on the training and education of our employees, not only new hires we are bringing on board, but also educating constantly our current staff. Why do we do this? We need to secure ramp-up. We need to secure quality, and we need to secure an efficient ramp-up. And in a few minutes, I think we can talk a little bit more what does this setup do for us. It's definitely positive contributing to our CORE project because we are able to increase revenue with the same amount of staff, which is only and certainly also linked to well-educated people. Also and highlight always in the third quarter is the celebration of our employee loyalty. As you also know, aerospace is a unique industry. So we have to educate, train and qualify our people. Having people on board constantly and with long experience is, of course, helping us in the transformation process. And again, in September, we have celebrated with 273 long-term employees helping us over decades to develop FACC. And in those celebrations, we are inviting people that they are working for FACC for up to 45 years. So since the beginning of the foundation, and it's going down to people being with us 10 years or longer. So that was very positive, and we see that people stick to our visions and our missions. And last but not least, we are empowering our women in the company with our Wings for Women initiative, which is right now up and running for 2 years. Increasing diversity in the FACC environment as an overarching statement, but also being very focused of enabling and motivating women to take more leadership roles in the environment of FACC. In saying that, a few slides on the market development. As said before, we are strongly benefiting from the continuous strong demand for passenger but also business jet airplanes. We are growing with the market despite a very challenging global environment, growth in the first 9 year -- 9 months was 8.6% in revenue. Again, I'm repeating my statement, this 8.6% growth resulting in EUR 697 million of revenue in the first 9 months was made pretty much with the same employment. So we only added 17 people during the first 9 months, which is less than 0.5% of people growth, but enabling 8.6% of revenue growth. So this is one important element of our CORE initiative and Florian will talk a little bit more on CORE. So one element by increasing efficiency is definitely working nicely to our plans. EBIT was expected stable. Again, Q3 is normally not a quarter where we are harvesting too much on EBIT because revenues are low, but fixed costs are stable. So overall, the result was very much in line with our calculations and expectations. I also would like to address this is all happening in a still quite dynamic environment, starting from the order signal from our customers, which is, I would say, still strong and good, but having some volatility here and there. Biggest challenge still is the material supply chain. In terms of costs, where we are having actions in execution by changing the one or the other supply chain because of uncompetitiveness, but also the on-time delivery of the one or the other material is still an action needed here and there. We can compensate with special shift arrangements and with a very flexible workforce helping us on flexible work times. But overall, there is still challenges as many other peers we have to deal with as well. Overall, managed well in good alignment with all of our customers in our workforce. But once further stabilizing, this is, of course, helping us on efficiencies as well. Order book, unchanged strong and slightly above EUR 6 billion. This is the orders we have to deliver on the more than 17,000 airplanes that are currently firmly ordered from airlines with all of our customers. A quick insight on our major customers and businesses. I'm very glad on the statements made from Airbus last week during their Q3 result call. So the year-end target of 800 roughly airplanes to be delivered was reconfirmed. I also would like to make one statement here. We all know that Airbus is managing critical supply chains very precisely. They are not making a secret out of it where it comes from. So there is still some engine bottlenecks, making them producing gliders. The amount of gliders in the inventory was reduced from the end of June date to the end of September date, from a little bit more than 50 to around about 30. One thing which might be important to know, and this is the positive partnership we share with all of them. We are delivering to the 820 airplane deliveries. So our products are delivered. They are installed. They are at Airbus or any other customer. So we can deliver. The question is, can the end customer deliver the final product? So we are a little bit least impacted from this volatility. So we are up and running, as long as the plan is there to deliver the guidance. Boeing, same thing, positive news. Boeing heavily stabilized in the last couple of months. They received clearance from the FAA to further increase their production rates. As you all know, there have been ceilings put on them, not go beyond certain output. This is right now lifted for the next phase and Boeing is ramping up their production lines, especially on the 737 MAX. Right now, rate is increasing beyond the 38, which was the limitations they had in steps to rates in the range of 60 airplanes over the next periods to come. They're also ramping up the 787 constantly from today's rate to rates again above 10, but also on the 777. Business jets, which is, as you all know, a significant portion of our business as well. 20% of our revenues is linked to the business jet market. And also here, we see a strong demand already in the first 9 months, but also going into the future. A little bit of a closer eye -- view on the main customers' deliveries. As said before, ramp-up is continuing, very positive. If you look to the left side of the chart, the gray bar, and this is showing evidence and proof that Boeing is reramping up again quite significantly from the first 9 months of 2024 to the first 9 months of 2025, the Boeing rate increased by 51%, which is a significant challenge and was -- to our interpretation, very well managed. Airbus, a little bit more of a flat line in terms of deliveries. But if we keep in mind that there is some gliders, meaning finished airplanes on their property without engines. So we shall add another 30 airplanes already produced or already tested because they are having engines that are hung on airplanes, they are doing the test flight, they remove the engine again to use it on the next airplane. So they did better in terms of production compared to deliveries. So overall, the ramp-up is continuing. And as you see from our numbers as well, we are growing together with our customers. On the right side, very unchanged picture, more than 17,000 airplanes firmly ordered from airlines with our customers. Biggest order backlog, half of the 17,000 airplanes is ordered at Airbus, 37% at Boeing and very stable COMAC with an order backlog and market share of 9% as we speak. I also wanted to share a new slide with yourself, which is giving a little bit more of insight on the business jet market. Again, business jets is not a niche for FACC. It's 20% of the sales volume we are having. And also here, we can see on a year-by-year comparison that there was an increase of 15% in the market demand on the large jets, which is transcontinental business jets like the global express family from Bombardier or Gulfstream, with the biggest amount of increase, of course, those airplanes are produced at a slightly lower pace compared to the medium and small jets. But also here on the small jets, nice increase of 10%. FACC is active in all areas. However, the biggest market share we have in the medium and large jets. So small jets, we are producing as well, but of course, at a lower value and with lower scope of work. So you see the trend also here is a positive one. In terms of the long-term demand, Airbus and Boeing have rolled out the new long-term forecast, still same picture as we have seen it in the previous calls. Market demand over the next 20 years is around about 43,000 airplanes. The share of replacements and plans needed for growth also pretty much stable. So not too much new information here. Again, on the right side, a little bit more important for you to know. This is the major platforms we are delivering FACC technology to. So it's all the significant airplanes that are currently available in the market. On the A350, we are currently producing a rate of 6 in average for the first 9 months. Actually, we are at the rate of 7 [ trade ]. So we already ramping up and this airplane will see a long -- midterm demand of 12 airplanes. Important to know that for every A350, we have work share value of slightly EUR 2 million. So you see also in the long run, organic growth that is in front of us without investing into new projects. 787, very similar, doubling the rate between the average rate in 2025 up to now to 12. That's the midterm. The longer term is even higher also for the A350. If we look into '28, '29, both customers are forecasting numbers that are slightly above the 12. Boeing 777 current configuration running at a stable low rate. This will remain the same until the new version comes into the market. A320 or the narrow-bodies in general, as we all know, 80% of the market volume in terms of rates, but also in terms of value. A320 is still a 21% growth in front of us, most important platform for FACC, 37% of the revenue is based on that airplane. We are constantly ramping up all of our projects, Interiors, Engines & Nacelles, but also Aerostructures. So solid growth in front of us. A220, 40% growth rate in front of us. We're currently at the rate of 9 to 10 airplanes a month going into further rate ramp-ups in the first quarter of 2026 and then following in the second quarter for the next step. So here on the 220, there was a little bit of a move to the right recently by 3 months. We could manage nicely with our customer, but it's also here ramping up. Boeing 737, said before, the rate lift -- rate ceiling has been lifted by the FAA recently. So we are right now going in the midterm to a rate of 55. The longer perspective from Boeing on the MAX is above the rate 60 in the longer term. COMAC C919, as you all know, also quite important platform for FACC. We do the entire cabin for this Chinese produced airplane, but also wind components, mainly movables on the wing, but also the winglet, at the tip of the wing. Also here, we will more than double the output from today's average rate until the end of the decade, which is representing a 140% organic growth that is in front of us. In saying that, I would like to hand over to Florian for the financial details.

So thank you, Robert, for your introduction. Hello also from my side. I'm now guiding you, as always, through our financial figures for the Q3. Familiar slide for you, just going again box by box. So starting at the top with the market recovery, I think no more words needed. Robert very precisely explained what the market is doing and delivering strong growth for our company, which leads us to the second box, 8.6% revenue increase if we compare it to the last 9 months of 2024. So we are now standing at EUR 697.6 million. We are aiming for the EUR 1 billion revenue this year, which we will also later reconfirm in our guidance that Robert will present to you later on. Operating EBIT, a little bit of, yes, I would say, a small setback. As Robert outlined already, it was on the expected level indeed. Also, if we compare it to the last year, we are pretty much in the same ballpark with EUR 21.5 million of EBIT. In terms of the margin, we are a little bit worse than last year's comparative period. But the big difference to last year will be that we are expecting a strong fourth quarter this year, and you will also see that in our guidance later presented that we updated. Robert also outlined the limited expansion of workforce compared to our revenue growth. So we only added 17 additional employees compared to our employee level year-end 2024, which is a direct outflow of our CORE initiative where we are focusing heavily on the efficiency of the company, of course, blue-collar side, but also in the white-collar environment, where we are acting very strict in terms of bringing new people on board. And last but not least, free cash flow, very strong end of September, EUR 25 million. We see that in a later slide as well, also if we compare to the comparable period in 2024. So we really have seen a very good improvement here in the last time, but what is still a burden on us in terms of cash is the high inventories, and I have another slide on that as well a little later. So revenues, also a very familiar slide. On the left side, and I've said already, strong ramp-up in the industry. FACC growing even stronger than that. Q3, EUR 697.6 million. On the right side, you see the EBIT development over the last couple of years, EUR 21.5 million of EBIT in Q3, giving us a margin of 3.1%. Also again, guidance a little later with an update where we are aiming, of course, for a better Q4 that will lift us into a new territory for the full year. Development across divisions for Q3 year-to-date, Aerostructures pretty much stable if we compare it to the last year's Q3. Reason is the same as we already outlined in the first half year 2025 report. So the level of engineering work/development work that we have provided to our customers is a little bit lower than in the last year. We are expecting that to turn that around in the last year's quarter of 2025 and seeing an increase again as well. Engine & Nacelles, pretty much strong growth as we know it and Cabin Interiors, our strongest growing division for the time being, also if we compare it to last year's Q3 period. EBIT development, and this is, I would say, very nice for at least 2 divisions, Engine & Nacelles and Interiors on the right. So we are seeing still the improvement in Cabin Interiors environment. Although Q3 in Cabin Interiors was negative, we are still for -- on a year-to-date basis on all 3 divisions in positive territory, which is a very good improvement compared to the last couple of years. Aerostructures on the left side are still a little bit depressed. We outlined the reasons also in the earnings calls of the half year and Q1. So we have a problem in material costs, especially in the fastener environment. And if you look at the performance of Q1 and Q2 in Aerostructures, we are again also in Q3 in the ballpark of the EBIT margin that we also received in the first 2 quarters of the year. Of course, we are working heavily on that, and we are in negotiations with our customers. There will be an improvement starting next year. But for this year, we and also, I would say, the rest of the industry is a little bit dragged down by fasteners price increases that are especially hitting us in the Aerostructures environment. Free cash flow, just stated before, EUR 25 million by the end of the September. You see the very big improvement if we compare it to last year's period in 2024, of course, heavily driven by our inventory improvement program. If we think back the levels that we had last year, where we are bouncing around EUR 200 million in terms of inventory, we have brought down that, and we are still not at the end of the road. Of course, Robert outlined also already, Q3 is historically a weaker quarter for FACC, always has been with the company shutdowns in terms of holidays in July and August at FACC, but also at our customers. And this is, of course, a drag on the free cash flow in Q3. But overall, we are still seeing a strong improvement that we are expecting to extend even further in Q4 2025. Investments on the left side, so for the full year, you see for Q3, EUR 16.3 million. For the full year, you have the numbers lined up over the last couple of years, around about EUR 25 million to EUR 30 million. We are also expecting that for fiscal year 2025. So there will be no big surprise in the last quarter. And on the right side, as I just outlined, the inventory development over the last couple of years and also the ratio inventory compared to total assets. What we see is a stabilization of inventory also if we look at the half year number 2025. So we are now -- or we have stabilized our inventory around EUR 175 million, I would say, which is a little lower than the end of 2024. Very good improvement if we compare it to the numbers we have seen last year, especially Q3 2024, where we have been at EUR 192 million roundabout. So a very big improvement, and there is still a long way to go. Now handing back to the outlook for Robert. Robert, are you still here?

Well, it seems that we lost the connection. [Technical Difficulty]

I will just continue. I will just continue and then we wait for them to rejoin us for the Q&A session. So last on the line is just the outlook. On the left side, revenue and EBIT, we already talked about it. We are still, and this has not changed. We are forecasting for the full year 2025, a revenue of around about EUR 1 billion, which is giving us a revenue increase of over 10%. And the difference to our last guidance is now the more narrowed down guidance for the EBIT margin, which we are now expecting for the full year between 4% to 5% if we compare that to 2024 with 3.2% for the full year. So that's a decent improvement. And it also indicates, of course, a stronger Q4 than last year that we are expecting. On the right side, also a very familiar box, I would say, nothing changed here. We are still heavily included, I would say, ensuring the industry ramp-up, Robert also outlined before, especially with Airbus and the glider issues that they are having. This is not an issue of FACC. So we are performing. We are delivering our products to the finished aircraft, even if they have no engine, we don't care about that too much, I would say. We are delivering our product, and we need to ensure the ramp-up of our majority customers like Airbus, Boeing and also COMAC. CORE will not go away. We made that very clear also over the last couple of presentations, I would say, I'm currently also on a roadshow in Canada. So this is the driving discussions that I also have with other investors, and we are really focused on our initiative also for next year. What we can see that the initiative is working. So we see improvements across the board, efficiency in terms of people we already talked. We are also seeing improvements in our cost structure. If I just look at the smaller item, which is called travel costs, for example. So pretty much a very broad program where we are working on and with the end goal, of course, to deliver an EBIT margin 8% to 10% by the end of 2027. So this is also nothing new. This is a message that we know. If we look at this year with an EBIT margin of 4% to 5%, you can build the bridge also for next year, there will be a further improvement in 2026. And then finally, after our CORE initiative is fully up and running, we should end up at a group EBIT margin between 8% to 10%. Leverage ratio, also nothing unexpected. In the medium term, we are expecting to have a leverage ratio below 2.50 again. For the full year this year, of course, we are also expecting a further increase -- improvement also if we are looking for a potentially stronger Q4 than we had last year. Globalization strategy, also nothing new. We are working on the expansion of our global footprint, still, of course, with a hard beating in Europe with Austria and Croatia. But of course, we are looking at our international locations that we already have and the potential to build it up. Quality and safety is the last thing, also very familiar in that box. So everything that we do -- it needs to secure the quality and product safety of the products that we are delivering to our customers, and this is paramount for FACC. So with that said, I'm seeing that Robert is on the line again, and I want to hand over maybe to him. I just presented the outlook. And I think we are finally ready to move to the Q&A session. But if you also have to -- a final word on that slide, I happily hand over to you again.

No. Sorry for dropping out. So we had a system issue we had to report. Thank you, Florian, for taking over. All said perfectly. And I think right now, the floor is the floor for our visitors, and we are more than glad to answer your questions. Thank you, Florian, for stepping in.

[Operator Instructions] I will start with a question in our chat box. So please, I will read it out. Do you currently have or expect to have some exposure to the increased defense spending in the EU and especially Germany?

Well, we can answer that very easily. We have some dual-use goods we are producing mainly as a platform for civil. They are then used for military applications, too. For the time being, we are watching the defense market, especially the European defense market very closely, I have to say. We need to be very, I would say, open here and transparent. Setting up military business is a new business environment that in some cases, not to say in all cases, requires an isolated fenced operational environment. So we only would respond to such opportunities if we can use, let's say, pretty much the state of the FACC operational setup. Setting up something new only makes sense if we have a larger volume in front of us. So long story short, still mainly focused on the civil aviation, UAM and some space business. Defense is under our watch list, but with volumes currently very little.

And one participant raised his hands, Bastian Brach, you should be able to speak now.

Can you hear me?

Yes, perfectly.

So some questions for me, but I will do them one by one. The first one is on the inventory level. I remember you gave us a target of around EUR 150 million by year-end regarding the inventory. Is this still reachable? Would be another huge step from Q3 to year-end? And could you -- could we expect a further inventory reduction in 2026? Or do you want to stabilize at the level?

Maybe a quick statement from myself first, and then you might elaborate on it a little bit further. So I think on the inventory, as I said before, seasonality in the third quarter, output to a certain degree because customer demands are a little bit lower. Nevertheless, we have level loaded, of course, our operations. So we have some inventory built up in order to prepare for the remainder of the year. The fourth quarter will be a strong output quarter again. So by delivering end product and semi-finished product as we have it now to our customers, this will have an automatic impact to the inventory level. So there is a further reduction in front of us. And for the year-end target, Florian, I think you could take over, please from here.

Yes. Just to add on what Robert already said. So we handed out EUR 148 million to you as a guidance for the full year of the target that we want to achieve. As Robert just outlined, yes, there are challenges ahead of us. We have seen that also in the current numbers that we are having. It is a huge step down, of course, that we are aiming for, for the full year. This guidance is still up and running. So we are still very heavily working on it. And for next year, of course, we are already in the budgeting process or the budgeting process is already finalized. I do not want to front run here. But also, of course, if you just look at the ratios, and it doesn't matter if you look at total assets ratio or compared to revenue, we are again or still, I would say, not at the levels before COVID, which is the overarching goal, of course, that we want to achieve. Is this possible already to achieve that in 2026? I would not expect that, to be honest, because the industry is still in a strong ramp-up. We have all the issues that also Robert talked before in the supply chain. Supply chain is improving, but we are still not there where we have been also before COVID. So you can expect that the inventory optimization program will also be up and running at FACC in 2026 and beyond.

Okay. Then the next question would be on the outlook, but only in terms of employee numbers. I think you won't give me an outlook for revenue and EBIT margin quite yet. But what do you plan for in 2026? I would expect another meaningful revenue increase in terms of headcount numbers, maybe also split between like blue collars or production workers and in your offices?

Well, in operations, we have a target set ourselves that we want to do a certain increase in revenue with the same amount of people. We have right now increased EUR 55 million of revenue during the course of this year with the same amount of people. Next year will be another year with growth. We talked about the ongoing rate increases. So we are adding people here and there in the blue-collar in the operational environment. But not at the same speed or curve, we are increasing our revenue. So we are adding people. Currently, we have restarted the onboarding in October by bringing people up to speed. So there will be add-ons in the blue-collar environment. But again, if we increase the revenue at a certain percentage, the percentage in headcount increase will be significantly less. In the white-collar area, it's an objective not to ramp up any further. So keeping the workforce stable and managing more revenue with the same amount of fixed costs. That's our objective as we have it at the time being, and we are sticking to that.

Okay. My last question is on the CORE strategy and the outlined EUR 80 million cost savings until the end of 2026. Could you give us an indication how much of that is already in place right now? And maybe in which of the 4 areas you outlined, like production efficiency, is the biggest savings until now?

Well, it's the 4 elements as Florian described a few times. I might go into 2, and Florian might take over the other 2. Efficiency increases in operations is one element, accounting for roughly 1/4, 25% of the EUR 80 million. It's pretty much, as I just said before, more revenue with the same amount of people. So efficiency increases by learning curve effects, but also digitalization, automatization, some work transfers between FACC, Austria and FACC Croatia, of course, very important for our Interiors. But we are also offloading to supply chains, very low complex composite work in order to get efficiencies here. So this is running pretty much to plan. 1/3 of the savings expected this year, 2/3 to be expected next year. The second point is inflation effects to be compensated by the market, meaning our customers. This is an ongoing process, where we are working daily. And this is out of contract, let's say, settlements we are asking for. Florian talked about the fastener issues that is impacting the entire industry, especially in 2025. Just to give you a figure, Aerostructures is impacted by around about EUR 10 million of unexpected price impacts during the course of 2025. So we have been able to overcompensate here and there. This hit we have seen this year, we have to take. But we have various agreements in place with both sides, suppliers and dealers to normalize the situation starting next year. And with the one or the other customer, we found agreement on getting compensation. So here, I think we have found solutions. On the global supply chain restructuring, we have rolled out plans. Constantly, we are currently transferring 50, 5-0, individual work packages from supply chains that we have used in Europe for the last couple of years to either more competitive ones in Europe or -- and this is the majority using supply chains in best cost countries, which is Asia, of course, which is Southeast Europe, which is, however, also the South American environment. Here, we are currently active, but the benefits will trigger not before the fourth quarter of next year. So this is more the longer pole in the tent. Also here, we are expecting around about 25% of the effects coming from that area. And Florian, if you want to talk on the [ savings ] again, 1/3, a little bit less than 1/3, 1/4 are being active and accountable this year, compensating the inflation effects. The bigger effect will come in the year 2026 and beyond on the material supply chain activities. Florian, please.

So maybe just on the fixed cost or the general expenses environment that we are having. I dropped one of the items already before, talking about travel expenses a little bit. This is, of course, also part of the package. So if we look at the EUR 10 million that we gave out target for the fixed cost or general expenses savings that we want to do, and travel expenses, for example, is one item where we had a huge saving this year already. So this is pretty much in the box already. Some improvements, of course, also planned for next year, but we really cut down on that environment. Customers price increases, Robert already touched a little bit with his remarks also in terms of the fastener issues and compensation agreements that we have in place. And also, I think in this environment, we are pretty much well underway also this year, so heavily negotiating also as we speak for the Q4, some items already lined up and also for next year still. But overall, this EUR 20 million that we put out is also pretty much, I would say, over 50% already secured for this year.

Okay. So -- is the math like 1/3 to half of it already done and the rest next year, right?

I would rather say 1/3 this year with one exception. The fixed cost cutting program where we had around about EUR 10 million is applicable this year, but also will continue next year.

And we move on to Aymeric Poulain.

The first question is on the Q3 sales, please, the 4%. Would you be able to quantify the FX element of the apparent slowdown and whether the rest effectively organic growth is just volume or if there are some pricing effect? I think you also said on Q4, you don't expect pricing effect immediately for Aerostructures. And yet you forecast an implicit 25% growth in the top line in that quarter. So the contrast between the 2 quarters is quite stellar. Could you give a bit more color on why there's such a high contrast of growth between the 2 quarters that will be helpful. I've got other questions, but maybe we can start with that, if you want.

Maybe I'll start first with the FX part of that question and maybe then Robert adds a little bit on it in terms of the sales and the revenues. So in terms of FX perspective, and I think we -- this is also, of course, a very interesting question that we're always facing as we are a 100% U.S. dollar-dominated company. But for the fiscal year 2025, the hedging that we have in place is pretty much done with an average rate of 1.10. So I would say the exposure that we have to the currently weaker dollar is 2025 not really relevant. Of course, we have a hedging portfolio that fluctuates a little bit in terms of the average rates. We are doing the hedging only with forwards. So we have -- if you look quarter-to-quarter, and we are not, I would say, publishing that figures. But if you look quarter-to-quarter, you have a little different hedge rates on average for each quarter. But on average, for the full year, we are standing at 1.10, which is a very good rate, I would say, and this is beneficial for us during this year.

Well, on the output, as I said before, Q1, Q2 normally is ramping up stable, and we knew from the H1 reporting. Q3 definitely was -- compared to every other year, very weak in terms of customer demand and therefore, product delivery. We had 30% to 40% reduction in revenue, especially in the month of August. So for the rest of the year, as Florian said, and I confirm -- the orders are in, we are delivering at a higher pace. We already see it in October, we have the November in front of us. And as also stated by Florian, some of the development cost milestones are currently finishing. So services or [ NSEs ] development cost invoicing also will take during the month of November and December. So overall, the overall outlook is based on today's environment confirmed. And just to give you a little bit of an insight, Airbus, Boeing and all of our other customers are further ramping up. We are a little bit ahead of that because we need to deliver wind components, for example, roughly half a year sooner before the airplane is finished and handed over to an end customer. So also in the month of December, especially January, February, we are again preparing for the next rate ramp-up. And we are already starting now. This is why we also are ramping up. Some of the works are already a little bit ahead of schedule. So that's a little bit of an explanation of the quarterly differences in terms of revenue output. I hope that helps.

Yes, that helps. And coming back on the guidance, so you have this margin upgrade effectively or a slightly higher base of the range, above 4% despite the fact that you won't get the pricing negotiation kicking in on the Aerostructures side before next year. So in terms of the year-on-year impact that you would expect in 2026 for Aerostructures, would you have an idea of how significant it could be?

Well, we do not want to give a guidance for the next year, if we are [ finishing ] this year. But as you heard from previous or in previous calls, we have -- we have laid out a transformation plan driven by many things. Some of it we talked about efficiency, digitalization, optimization, further ramping up Croatia, especially important for our Cabin division. And also here, I think Florian gave you some numbers. We are breaking even right now after many years of suffering from certain things. What is it, and this is unchanged by the year end of 2027. We want to have the company developed into a company delivering high single-digit, low double-digit EBIT margins, a little bit higher on Engines & Nacelles and Aerostructures and the Cabin division in the range of 6% to 7.5% sustainable profit margin. So that's the plan we have laid out. That's what we are following. For the next year, there will be another further increase from where we are coming, transitioning into the target we have laid out in earlier calls.

Okay. And urban mobility, where are we on the regulatory front? Do you expect some first commercial approvals by the end of next year? Or is it still a bit too early?

It's still a little bit too early. I know from where we are with our U.S. customers, there is continuous test flights ongoing. There is targets for one customer. It's public. You can read it up. It's Archer, who wants to do a public certified people transportation during the Los Angeles Olympic Games. This is a milestone for them to be achieved. They are working towards that one. We are producing very low serial production part rate at the time being, supporting initial production. On the second customer, whom we name to you is Eve, which is the Embraer spin-off. We are currently in a phase of producing the first part 2, which is parts for testing and first compliant test flights. So they are, let's say, following pretty much a year to 18 months Archer in terms of schedule. And we have another 2 projects where we can't talk about the end customer. But on one of the projects, which is logistics, not people transportation, we are currently producing serial production products as we speak, still at, I would say, low rate. For 2026, however, one of the projects is ramping up in full production. We are just setting up a production line, which is going operational this week. For the next year in this project, we are not only looking into development, let's say, revenues. We have a first year of very stable and sizable production volume. If I talk production volume, we talked about EUR 30 million to EUR 40 million of serial production environment. So it's not only R&D yet. So it's entering step in a serial production environment. So still, sorry that we can't name the end customer on those other 2 projects, but one of it is really taking up momentum and will contribute with around about EUR 30 million to EUR 40 million in recurring revenue starting next year. So that's the positive.

Yes. And the last, COMAC was reported to have had some delays in its production rate in 2025. Is it a temporary slowdown similar to what we saw at Airbus due to engine scarcity? Or is there something a bit more longer lasting on that situation?

I would say you made the right statement. I think it's a slowdown of the very ambitious ramp-up plans they had in place. So they rebalanced to a certain degree. I would call it that way, this new ramp-up forecast is a little bit more in line with what we would have been expected. So we have prepared for the steeper ramp-up, and we right now really adjusted to the new figures. So we worked it nicely with our customer. Again, ramp-up ongoing, but at a little bit of a more moderate pace.

And we have one last in our chat box. I will read this out. What do you consider your competitive advantage to your close competitors?

Well, I think it's never a single one. I think it's the holistic benefit we're having. We are never the biggest one. As you know, there is a few out there that are bigger. There was a very big one that is right now customer-owned again and split up between 2 customers. You know whom I'm talking about. They certainly have a volume advantage here and there. Overall, I think we are leading in some technology developments, especially for the next-generation airplanes where we are engaged not with only one, we are engaged with all of them, and we are engaged not in one commodity. We are engaged in Cabin, we are engaged in Aerostructures, and we are engaged in the [indiscernible] system. So this is giving us more access to a wider market. I think that's a little bit underpinned by our growth. We are normally growing faster than the normal production rate increases because we have a wider portfolio. One benefit also, I think, is our global spread. So we are, of course, strong in Europe with our setups in Austria, but also Croatia. We started our Asian engagement long before AVIC was a majority shareholder in China. So we are active in China since the early 2000 years. As you know, AVIC bought us in 2009. So we have been there 7 years before AVIC took the share in FACC. The same is true for India. We are active in India since 2010. with own operations in Pune but a strong partnership in Bangalore as well. So here, we have, I think, some advantage compared to our peers. The other side of the coin, we can talk as well. Europe definitely had more inflation cost issues compared to other markets. Here, we are, and Florian and I talked about it, engaged with our CORE projects in order to close the gap. But overall, I would say its flexibility, its highest quality and reliability. It's our global footprint, and we are acting in more areas compared to our peers who either are Cabin or either our [ propulsion ] or either our Aerostructures, we can deal with all of it.

Thank you very much. And with watching the time running out and in the meantime, we do not have and received further questions, we, therefore, come to the end of today's earnings call. Thank you very much for your interest in FACC. And a big thank you to the gentlemen for your presentation and the time you took to answer the questions. Should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact Investor Relations of FACC. I wish you all a lovely remaining day. Thank you. Stay safe, and bye-bye.

Thank you, everyone.

Everyone, thank you. Always a pleasure. Bye.