FACC AG ($FACC)

A warm welcome ladies and gentlemen to the earnings call of FACC AG following the publication of the Q1 figures for 2026. I would like to welcome the company's CEO, Robert Machtlinger, the CFO, Florian Heindl; and Michael Steirer from Investor Relations, who will guide you through the figures in a moment, followed by a Q&A session via audio line and chat and with that, I hand over to you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you a lot for the introduction, and good morning again to everyone, and thank you for joining us. Welcome to the FACC AG earnings calls, as I already mentioned. My name is Michael Steirer, and I'm joined today by our CEO, Robert Machtlinger; and our CFO, Florian Heindl. As always, detailed financial information has been made available in the press release published earlier today at 7:15 A.M. And if we are unable to address all questions during the call, please let us know, and we will arrange follow-up one-on-one discussions, leasebacks. Saying that, I would like to hand over to Robert Machtlinger, our CEO. Thank you

Michael, good morning. Thank you for the introduction. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining today's earnings call for FACC for the first quarter of 2026. Before we go into the slides, maybe a few remarks concerning the overall development of the industry. We all are very aware about the dynamics globally with one or the other surprises they keep us again and the industry have to react to it the Middle East prices. Nevertheless, I would say this is not new, I would say, the operating environment still remains dynamic. It's not only supply chains that are causing issues since not demand, but more than 3 years right now. And I think our end customers, OEMs are very [indiscernible] renting communicating. Nevertheless, I think the industry is able to still navigate and manage the dynamics as best as we can. A few words on the geopolitical situation. This, of course, is keeping us very focused on the monitoring of the development. We are in very close contact with all of our customers, but also our suppliers to make the right decisions. So far, it's well under control. In terms of the impact to the industry, in the meantime, I think there have been [indiscernible] also FACC, I've seen a couple of order adjustments in the first couple of weeks of the year 2026. All the order adjustments we have received from our customers are worked into our business plan for the year 2026 and beyond. But nevertheless, employees we talked about it, and we will be more specific at the end of the presentation. The adjustments we have seen are not unexpected, I would say. We are working in scenarios since a couple of quarters. And what everything we see right now is not having an impact on the efficiency guidance. In saying that, I would like to go into the details, a few snapshots and highlights on the first quarter. If this receive was able to announce a new contract we have signed up with Embraer, especially a complete new cabin for the [indiscernible] impact on the business jet. We have developed this state of the art. I would say -- it's a new standard. I think in Business Aviation, we have worked out together with Enbrel. It's a long-lasting contract again, showing evidence that we see a strong partner to the industry. Secondly, we and the management Board after 1-year review and detailed analysis have made significant decisions in terms of capacity adjustments we need to manage the market growth, as you have rightly seen in the public press announcements, we are setting up capacity for the Aerostructures division, which will be fully digitized robotic-assisted automated manufacturing site. Close to our covering plant #3 in Upper Austria, so this is certainly an important step dealing with the market development for the next couple of years. And finally, I think and we will talk at the main reason of our core the results of our fiscal year. It's pretty much and it's all in line with our expectations, I would say. The risk revenue growth compared to last year in -- even more important, the profitability has further increased. But Sean will talk more about those things. Quick intel on the market outlook. We tried to be a little bit more focused on the demand versus supply. We would not repeat the long-term forecast, which is unchanged for the resilience of the industry. And you know all of those states. But basically, I think this is very key at the time being in the middle of a significant dynamic in the Middle East. What is the market requirement? Where are we? And what is the risk of a further reduction or adjustment of the decorate. Now I want to keep it, I think, very high level. I think at the time being, there might be one or the other small adjustments for 2026, depending on the development of the Middle East, all of our customers are confirming high demand of fuel-efficient airplanes. And even if the 1 or the other airline want to postpone the delivery there is enough demand that would compensate here and there. So overall, if you look into the dynamics in terms of traveling. Between the year 2025 the revenue passenger kilometers are tried over the last 25 years. The fleet has doubled, so this is giving us some indications. It's more an mid-test airplanes are growing. So the seat capacity of the main market, 80% of the aerospace market is small or mid-sized airplanes. But this mid-sized airplanes are growing in heat capacity. It's one element at and that's on the very right side of the chart. There is more demand than supply. This is also not new. We know that there have been a couple of pickups especially with the supplier of all airplanes over the last couple of years. I think they are doing exceptionally well right now in re-ramping up from the coming in but you also know that [indiscernible] the other issues and the Airbus management is very transparent with their ag supply issues. So overall, this is the after analysis, there is a shortfall of around about 5,200 airplanes. New model airplanes that are not yet on the market. I have to say that Boeing analyzer is a little bit more pessimistic. They talked about 1,800 airplanes that are currently missing immediately. So we can navigate between the 2 numbers, but this is already a clear indication that the market demand and the requirement is there and the supply of ethane is not at the time being, holding up with the demand of the [indiscernible] 2 numbers last year, as an [indiscernible] around about 1,500 airplanes. Before the crisis in 2020, the total combined delivery rate was slightly above 1,600 airplanes. So there is still a gap of more than 200 airplanes that are not yet produced, but rents have a need for. And just taking this 500 -- sorry, 200 airplanes from last year. The number was bigger than years before. Mathematical is giving us the gap that is basically currently in the market. So overall, I think that gives us optimistic view that the demand and the requirement for producing the apples and delivery during the is still very much a key objective for the industry. Looking into the output of Airbus imbuing in the first quarter, nothing new for you propose it. Airbus had a difficult start in the first month of the year, picking up slightly in February. Just looking into the April numbers, not yet confirmed, they have delivered around about 60 airplanes they would announce shortly. So trade going in the right direction. I think some of the deliveries in April have been held up in the first quarter because of administrative issues between China and Airbus on taking airplanes paperwork and river very tough. Overall engine is the bottleneck, but the order backlog in Airbus again increased to slightly above 9,000. Boeing, as I said before, the very focused on the re-rate. Output in the first quarter was higher compared to Airbus. Higher since many years. So this is giving an indication that they are on the right track. The 737 rate and fully prepared for further rate increases in line with the authorities for the year. The order book a significant increase to 6,100 aircraft. So overall, our trend is going in the right direction, which we won or the other challenge we all have to deal with. In terms of the longer market term forecast, this is a refresh of what we shared with you, but especially in times with some uncertainty before this may be helpful for you. to see what we are expecting. So looking into the first quarter 2026 6, a baseline in terms of rates we are producing for our customers and what we are seeing is a rate within the decade that means ramp up between today and the end of the 8-K, we see a quite sizeable increases in terms of demand. Just capping into the '20, you know that 57% of our business is related to the Airbus is tank family. Also here, we see a 32% organic increase in requiring, which, of course, is good for efficiency. Same is true for the A350 family. Very, very stabilized. Director is ongoing, we are talent-producing a rate of 720 months with a solid forecast and actions in place to ramp up to 12 within the next couple of periods which is a 71% increase and which is above the rate we produced to per before the crop crisis. Same is true for the from 5 months to 12 months, we are currently actually approaching rate 8 and 10 with Boeing 787 before the end of the third quarter, and then we are seeing a further ramp-up to the requirement of 8 and also quite important for efficiency the companion where we have a quite significant share of value is growing from currently through 3 months to above before the end of the bike. So overall, I think the forecast we are getting are in line with our expectations we confirmed and showing the organic growth that we have with us. In saying that, I would like to hand over to our CFO for the financial details. Please go ahead.

Thanks, Robert, for the introduction. Hello, everyone, also from my side. Jumping into the first slide, where we then, I think it summarizes perfectly what we have seen also in the last quarters, a constant improvement of our [Foreign Language] [Technical Difficulty]

Okay. We are trying to reconnect with a technical issue on our end. We are just getting another speaker, give us a minute. Can you hear us?

We can hear you. Thank you.

So again, on the division results, in terms of revenue, we had a slight increase in Aerostructures and engine sales. As I explained before, we are expecting a pickup of the revenue in those 2 divisions at the rest of the year. In Cabin interiors, we have already seen a strong revenue growth in Q1 compared to last year with 26%. In terms of the division results, we can see, and this is also, of course, a very good sign also for the management board. All 3 divisions, again, are in positive EBIT territory, starting with Aerostructures, on the left side, EUR 4.1 million of EBIT transforming in an EBIT margin of 4.6%. So massive improvement compared to Q1 2025 last year, which was a very weak quarter. Engineer sales, I would say nothing surprising here, solid double-digit EBIT margin around about 11% with of EBIT. And Cabin Interiors are positive with roughly EUR 0.8 million, giving us a margin of 0.6%. What you can see, and this is also, I would say, a consequence also of last year. Cabin Interiors still a challenging business for us, but we are on the right track as we have shown last year, and we expect the positive development of cosigners to continue. Free cash flow, another slight improvement compared to last year's quarter one EUR 8.9 million of free cash flow in quarter 1 compared to the EUR 3.5 million last year. So I think this is also visible if you look at our net debt and leverage ratio, and we have seen that trend also in the last quarters. FACC effects on a constant path of increasing the free cash flow, dropping up free cash flow, working on our working capital and reducing our net debt. And of course, this is very beneficial for the company, and we need it anyhow, as Robert just explained with massive investment program in front of us over the next couple of years. And of course, a solid balance sheet and a solid cash flow statement is the necessary foundation for it. Cash flow, I just touched investments a little bit. So what you can expect going forward for this year is a slight pickup for the rest of the year in our CapEx investments. You will see the major impact of CapEx investments in our new plants in the years to come. So not so much in 2026 as we start this project in the second half of the year with groundbreaking and preparing the better field for the building, basically. So the big cash outs will be in 2027 and 2028. But nevertheless, you will see an impact also in the third and fourth quarter of 2026. Inventory, I also touched a little bit in the beginning already. What we have seen in Q1 2026 is a pickup in inventory to EUR 194 million. So I put in comparison, again, the total assets as a percentage. So we are at around about 98.5% of our total assets. What this number is telling us, and I said that in the beginning that we still have problems in the supply chain with certain suppliers. In general, the supply chain is improving over the last couple of years, but we still have hiccups. And this is -- this forces us to buffer book and we are, again, back in the territory of roughly EUR 190 million. Same is true as last year. We will work on that. We will keep it under control. We will work to bring it down. But for the time being, we need to keep fastest look secure the supply to our OEMs. In saying that, I want to hand back to Robert for the outlook.

Thank you, Florian. Hope you captured everything. Sorry for the technical hiccup we had in between. Well, in the outlook for the outlook, for the outlook, I think we can reconfirm what we have published at the end of last year, we see a continuation of our growth. Still the spread is a little bit right. It's been 5% to 15% in top line growth. We will be in a position to narrow the guidance down with the end of Q2, where we normally have good and aligned data with our customers. Overall, I think we are managing the volatility quite well. The EBIT will further increase is a result from scaling effects growth, but maturity is driven by our core project, which is, of course, taking further momentum. We are focused on also not unchanged strong our focus on the increase and rate demand from all of our customers, again, repeating statement. This is unique for the time being, right now, all of our customers, all platforms, wide bodies and narrow bodies are ramping up at the same time. This is not normal. Normally, one commodity is ramping up. The other one is stable right now. We have had up everywhere, and we also have market dynamics and further growth potential in the urban mobility environment. As for mentioned, stabilizing our supply chain is key. We're working on that are making good headway also with certain transfer of works, double sourcing and other mitigation issues, which will secure our position in terms of highest quality and reliability in terms of supply. We are actively managing the entry cost volatility as we do U.S. dollar hedging, we also do hedging for energy costs. We have been active, and I'm happy to say that we have secured our energy cost for the full year of 2026 round about 30% to 40% of the energy cost is hedged for 2027. And we have hedged the energy consumption before the energy cost made a turnaround with quite some increases on the market. So here also our hedging policy worked fine giving us a stable cost basis for anything. Startup plant expansion, as we mentioned, will start in the Q4 of 2026 and directly related to that new facility, we have a significant high focus on digitalization optimization by bringing people on board from external partners. So we are significantly increasing our knowledge base in these 2 areas, giving you a little bit facility we are putting in place in today's environment will have a requirement for long about 500 to 550 people. With the new sets that we are planning the people the need to operate the volume in that facility with the new robotics and the operating model we have rolled out we talked about only about 300 people. So this is the efficiency, we want to bring into play with this new state-of-the-art facility. In saying that, I want to reconfirm for the company our guidance for 2026, and would like to open the floor for your questions.

[Operator Instructions] [Technical Difficulty]

Sorry, I need to apologize for the Technical Issue we might it have on our side and I hope you captured everything we presented.

Yes. Mr. Bastian Brach has to ask his question. So please.

Mr. Machtlinger, we heard everything you said on the presentation so that could and I hope you can hear me now. I have 3 questions. The first one, you mentioned the delivery adjustments from the -- can you quantify the revenue impact of that in the next few quarters? And do you expect a further increase in the still elevated inventory levels as a result of that, do you maybe have an internal target for the inventory levels at year-end or for the next quarters?

Yes. So basically, we need to expand a little bit. I think when we do our forecasting for a year, we normally start in early fall of the previous year based on market, let's say, orders we get. We got a little bit used to it that in the first couple of weeks of a fiscal year, our customers are down adjusting to, let's say, to a more realistic plan. The point is we need to follow the water book or the order request of our customers at first. So we are ordering material. We are preparing for the ramp-up and is then in the first couple of weeks of the year -- the adjustments are done. We certainly have to deal with this site. So we learned how to deal with it, I would say, in the last 2 to 3 years. This happened also this year that we got or the just [indiscernible] So if we -- to be a little bit precise by just talking things without meeting on the phone. If we would look into the order book, we had for 2026 at the end of December of last year. I think the growth would be more to the upper end of the FACC guidance. Is the asset we have seen right now because of very delicious, supply chain issues, engines. And recently, the Middle East, there was a reduction in the range in the middle, what I'd say, in the lower end of the double-digit revenue number. So camping around EUR 30 million to EUR 40 million of an adjustment we've seen from the 2025 to what we see today. So basically, by seeing this, we are very nicely inside the FACC guidance. still not on the lower end, more in the middle, I would say, a little bit above the middle. And what we also have seen from the past years, with the second quarter, the order signal is very stable without too many volatility ups and downs because then our customers have made the plan. Again, I think even Airbus last week in the call are confirmed the guidance for 2026, all based on the engine availability they have aligned retention suppliers. So this gives us, I think, good visibility for the end of the year. Again, I think we want to specify our guidance at the end of Q2. In terms of inventory, Well, I think this quarter hiccup is that before we had to prepare for the higher rates in certain areas, we have to move the rate increase to quarter 2 or the second half of the year. Already having material on board. We are certain that the inventory will burn down at least in the second half of the year. We also have to understand that there is some lead time involved with some materials. We currently see lead times that between half year and year. So we have to order in advance security. So there is a material rolling in with the rates ramping up a little bit later. So overall, we have a target for inventory and it will be significantly or is the measurable below what you have seen in the end of Q1.

My next question would be on the engine and the margin, which was quite a bit lower than the previous year. Was it due to lower development project revenues? Or was there any other driver you need to be aware of?

Most significantly, yes, I think some milestones, and this is not unexpected coming over the year. But also, we have to say you've seen it change in the sale in astute revenue only has been growing by slightly above 1%. Why is this coming from the since and the Aerostructures has a bigger space or work share on wide-body airplanes. Also the wide-body airplanes are ramping up, but slightly slower than expected at the beginning of the year which is a reason for a little bit of a lower growth in these 2 segments, but [indiscernible] Asian sell also a slightly lower EBIT for the first quarter. Again, for the year-end we are expecting numbers that are closer to what we have seen in the past.

Okay. And my last question would be on COMAC. And yes, in the market, there's some talks about production delays only 3 deliveries in Q1. How do you see these issues and further ramp up in the next quarters and years? And maybe some comments on possible certification of the 919 outside of the home market, China and the Asian region.

Well, what we see, and we are close to them with our efficiency China operation and with what everything we do with them, they are ramping up. COMAC is right now putting in place a second assembly line from the 919, which is advancing right now, putting the equipment in. So Comes very focused in terms of ramping up. However, COMAC has similar issues than the other 2 in the market with the 1 or the other supplies. Some of it is engines. So they're working on that one is the other ones, too. I know that the production rate is increasing, the handover to customers is sometimes paying on the one or the other issue that needs to be installed to the airplane. In terms of of exporting the airplane, I think for the time being, there is a huge market in China. With the big China carriers, which will be supported first. There is some market out there in Indonesia. In other countries where China is exporting and COMAC is trying to get certification roadbeds released with European authorities first and then following the diverging authorities including which it [indiscernible] which I think also was the reason, I think, for a couple of Airbus on deliveries to say diplomatically.

We have Mr. Elias New in line to ask your question, please.

Can you hear me now? Sorry about that. A few questions from my side. Firstly, just wondering if you could give us an update on the raw material front of your core savings program and whether you've seen any adverse impacts on your eco costs following the current Middle East crisis? And then also in terms of fasteners, do you still expect the headwind to EBIT to be offset by the third quarter of this year.

Well, thank you for the questions. Good questions. I want to start with the fastener question. So fasteners was a big impact than issue last year. We have been able last year to manage, first of all, and pricing. And we also aligned with our end customers to have a trend, let's say, procurement strategy where we're working together with all of our customers in any fluctuation not with all partners, but this significant portion of the fastener cost is right now indexed based on current pricing. So is the problem going in a full way in 2026. The answer is no, because there is still some inventory coming in from the old orders. but the impact will be by far less than last year, and the situation will be fully mitigated during the fiscal year. Nevertheless, in our assessment and guidance in terms of EBIT, the faster impact was known and is part of our analysis. So no surprises to the management because we already knew last year, what will hit us in 2026. And for the first question, I would ask the Florian to answer.

So if I get it correctly, it was about input costs following the Middle East prices. So what we have seen this time or at least not yet, suppliers raising requests on our hand. I also have to say and we frequently talk in this direction. Also Elias talked specifically the last time we met also in terms of input costs and our contract structures that we changed a little bit after a little bit maybe the wrong expression. We changed contracts after the last crisis, most notably Russia, Ukraine war with the impact on the supply chain. So we took the chance. Rearranged some contracts. And of course, we are now better protected in terms of requests from the supply chain. I think it's a question how long this crisis is ongoing in the Middle East. In the end, the longer, of course, the oil price stays on an elevated level. And we are now in the second month of this war basically oil prices in the range of around about USD 100. And we also need to think of last year in the time frame where the oil price was also in the range of USD 70 to USD 80. So basically, right now, we are not expecting a major swing in the supply chain change confronting us with price increases, and this is the message also here. We need to wait and see how this crisis works out. And of course, if the oil price is sticking to 100 or even higher for a couple of months, there will be requests out of the supply chain. But this time, at the moment, we don't see that.

Okay. Great. Very helpful. And then just more about a housekeeping question on the tax impact in the first quarter, it looks like you benefited from some tax loss carry forward. So I was just wondering if -- given the positive tax impact you saw in Q1, what we should sort of assume for the remainder of the year in terms of the effective tax rates to you.

You were coming over a little bit broken, but I think the question is about tax loss carryforwards. Of course, we still enjoy some tax loss carryforwards out of the last couple of years. with losses that we had, and we are consuming that concerning or related to the rules and regulation in terms of IFRS. So nothing surprising on that end.

Okay. Anything you can tell us in terms of effective tax rate that you expect this year?

Effective tax rate will, of course, increase for this year. We have seen that also in last year's is going up a little bit as we are now at the end of consuming our tax loss carryforwards. So going forward, in the next couple of years, we will come back to a more normal effective tax rate.

Okay. Great. And then a final question from my side will be kind of coming back to the divisional margin development and particularly also engine in the cells. I mean color mentioned that the margin was down year-on-year. But for the full year, would you expect the engine in the sales margin to come the turn to or remain at the same level as we saw in 2025 and I guess also turning to the Cabinets margin. I was wondering whether this quarter, there were any one-offs and whether you were satisfied with the margin performance in that division?

Message is not changing as we talked last time a couple of weeks ago. So no different story here. The big target is, and we put it out frequently, we want to be an 8% to 10% EBIT margin company in 2027. And yes, we will have 2 divisions with double-digit EBIT margins in that time frame, which is aerostructures, 10% plus and engine sales 10% plus. As Robert just explained before, of course, in Engine nacelles, we had a little bit of a swing if we compare it to 1 year ago. But basically, and we also said that last time, the big challenge, of course, is to keep the engine and sale margin, and we want to keep it where it is right now. So in the territory, of around about 12%. The first quarter was a little bit higher or lower than the 12%, but we want to get back to the 12% that we have seen last year. So no change in storyline here.

Okay. In terms of Q1 performance in Cabin Interiors margin development. Any one-offs to call out there?

No. Also same storyline here. We have seen the pickup in Cabin Interiors development last year, especially in the last quarter. So the first quarter now was a little bit weaker. But you can expect, and overall, as we said, in terms of our guidance, you can expect an increasing improvement in terms of our operating EBIT margins, and this also includes first cabinets. Q1 was a little bit weaker yes, but you can expect a pickup in margins in the quarters to come.

We have another raised in hand by Mr. Aymeric Poulain you may unmute yourself now.

Okay. I guess most of my questions have been answered, but I wanted to come back to the EUR 120 million CapEx plan and just checking what would be your full capacity utilization turnover on the current basis? And indeed, in terms of the roll-up of this CapEx plan, what incremental capacity would you expect to achieve either from new space, new machinery or from the productivity and anti tools you're planning to add to the unit. And then as a derivative question from this, are there any specific risks on this CapEx plan from the interest rate environment? Obviously, you need to you are self-funding this CapEx plan. So there must be some sensitivity around interest cost. What's your view on the situation here? And is there some sensitivity based on the leverage you could carry going forward?

The first part, I would like to answer and the financing question will be taken by Florian. So first of all, the CapEx we are putting in place, there is 2 main reasons. The facility will be focused on aerostructures are basically large components like others like elevators, like lending fabs, so bigger moveable components, where we are following the strategy, a portfolio strategy that you see as a next step in complexity is offering the supply, the development and supply of an intense to our customers. So we do most of the parts are for different airplanes. So we have the technology, we have the know-how. What we go next is a turnkey solution for a customer where we can do a tailored airplane. So that's what we think is the way FACC should develop for the next for sure for the next generation of airplanes that will be launched. So the product family we are currently having and we are supplying rates elevators flex to our customers. And with the rate ramp-ups I showed you before, so this 30%, 40% increase on certain platforms need capacity. So we have invested before 2020 to be a EUR 1 billion company in terms of size with the growth rates we are seeing, we grow in the next couple of years, measure on this EUR 1 billion, of course, in person by the market requirement and rate increases in the platform strategy we have. So basically a little bit more than half of the capacity. This investment will bring is already occupied and used by the products we are producing on the firm contracts. So it's simply ramp-ups of organic growth, and we would like to manage this organic growth with less amount of people. So also, this product will be digitized. Manual work will be replaced is robotics. For example, at the end of the process that people are today manually apply the taking. This will be done in an automated system. The one or the other semi installation, preassembly, which is done the people today will be replaced by robotics. So half of the investment is consumed with rate increases we see in front of us. The other half is planned for new projects. And a few 1 we are currently working on. It's not yet implemented. We are just starting with our customers to work on the industrial plan but within the next 2 to 3 years, new products we are negotiating with our customers will be added up to that facility. And there will be an area in this facility, which we call a preset production facility, which is more an R&D environment. So in this environment around about 3,000 to 4,000 square meters. We already are testing new technologies. We want to offer to our customers in the next-generation airplanes. Why are we doing this? If we cannot show certain maturity on new materials and processes in how we operate and produce those components, the customers likely will not, let's say, let the technology be part of the new [indiscernible] So we need to think in advance. We are investing right now to have a solid technical foundation and a solid proposal in terms of safety and maturity for the next-generation airplanes. So all in on -- this facility will be predominantly run for rate increases. It will be the house for new products, we will implement in the next 3 years and a small portion is a pre manufacturing facility where we can do unique things that are not in the market today. And in terms of financing, I would like to hand over to Florian.

I will take Roberts Mike. I hope you can hear me.

Yes. Thank you.

So sorry for that. Camera working on my end now, but not the mic, sorry. So Aymeric, in terms of your question in terms of interest rates and the inherent risk in terms of this CapEx investment I think I will put it in a more broader statement. Yes, we are financing it on our own terms, meaning no capital increase as we say multiple times. So we will do it out of our own power with existing means that we have at our hands on what is currently ongoing is a renegotiation of our syndicated loan where we still have elevated interest rates back from the COVID period. We are right now renegotiating it together with my team. It looks very promising because also with the more beneficial financial profile. Also our interest margins that we pay will come down. And specifically, with this planned investment and financing this plan we will put together a subsidized loan components together with an Austrian bank and its related consortium behind it and the bank is the so-called [indiscernible] Control bank. And this bank offers favorable interest rates to export-oriented companies like FACC. So this is perfect fit for FACC. The interest rate is partly government-subsidized so it will come in lower than current expected market rates. So for us, a perfect instrument is the perfect timing to finance this CapEx investment.

We have one last question in our check box by [ Mr. Miguel Lago ] he's asking Union talked much about the Advanced Air Mobility segment. What can we expect in terms of growth this year?

Thank you. That's a very good question. So we are happy with what we have on the Air Mobility. So we with aim at serial production in various cases. Still on the passenger loans, it's on very low rates because all of our customers are in the middle of running their certification programs. So output here starts to be a serious production output, but still on very low rate. On non passenger rounds, meaning logistic drones, we are in a ramp-up, where we are producing drones on a daily, weekly month with [indiscernible] with size revenue streams in the meantime, we're not talking million in terms of production output is double-digit million output already driven by these programs. So we see in the drone business, revenue generation that is in the middle double-digit revenue area. As said on the passenger grounds, we forecast following our certification test completion. And is must be finished is the first step before ramping up further. But overall, in line with our expectations and again, repeating with the non-passenger the revenue stream starts to drop.

Thank you very much, Mr. [indiscernible] your question. Well, with no further questions in our chat or raise hands, I would say we come to the end of today's earnings call. Thank you very much for your interest in FACC here. A big thank you also to you, Machtlinger and Mr. Heindl for your presentation and your time. Should any further questions appear at a lenti time, please feel free to contact Investor Relations, and I wish you all a successful made. And with that, I say thank you and bye.