Fastned B.V. (FAST.AS) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the conference call. [Operator Instructions]. Now I will hand the conference over to Michiel Langezaal, for his opening statement. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator. And I'd like to extend a warm welcome to everyone on this call as well as to those joining via our webcast. You can find a copy of the presentation used during this call on our Investor Relations website found at ir.fastnedcharging.com. Moving to cover page. As always, I'd like to use that cover page to show something I'm really proud of. Looking back on this quarter, I wanted to shed some light on the snow and winter conditions we've seen during the recent holiday season, a time when many people go out and travel long distances. The last 2 weeks were cold in Western Europe and the Netherlands, in particular. The Netherlands in particular received also a significant amount of snow. The news was full of messages about trains and our airports struggling to cope with the weather and travelers being stranded. Often, communication was also mentioned to be lacking. In the same period, Fastned delivered. We enable drivers to reliably charge their vehicles even on these peak Saturdays on route to their winter sport destinations. Despite adverse weather conditions and station usage being the double of the average for 2024. We continued to deliver the same high-quality charging experience. So fast growth on 2 axes. The network and station usage while delivering in adverse conditions. This is not a small feat if you think about it, a serious challenge, and our team has passed this test with great results which puts Fastned in pole position for 2026. And please note that this picture is taken by a Fastned team member just after a big snow dump. Logically, snow removal and road salt are on their way. So I used it to put our brains here on snow and cold and not to make you think that a road covered in snow is what we mean by a great experience. Moving to Slide 2. With reference to the information provided in these slides and discussed during this call, please ensure you take note of the disclaimer. Moving to Slide 3. My name is Michiel Langezaal, I'm the CEO and one of the founders of Fastned. Victor Van Dijk, our CFO, is with me on this call. And together, we will present this webcast. Today, I'll take you through the highlights of the final quarter of 2025. We'll present our latest results and update you on our plans for 2026 and release our 2026 guidance. Victor will take you through the top line results for Q4 and as always, we will also update you on our station economics. After our presentation, we will be happy to answer your questions. If possible, please limit them to 2 questions for analysts so we can give everybody the opportunity. We've scheduled this call to last for 1 hour. So let's get started. The Q4 highlights. For Fastned, Slide 4, December marked an important milestone. We surpassed EUR 100 million in revenue for the year and the pathway towards this number is staggering. We founded the company in 2012, the market for electric vehicles at the time was virtually nonexistent and EVs were the new thing. 6 years later, in 2018, Fastned, for the first time, surpassed EUR 1 million in revenue. In 2021, the company surpassed the EUR 10 million milestone. Roughly another 4 years later, we do it again with tenfold revenue and surpass a milestone of EUR 100 million in revenue. This demonstrates the power of our team to scale and the scalability of our business model. Additionally, this also illustrates our growth path towards our 2030 North Star of 1,000 stations each generating EUR 1 million in revenue, another 10x. About locations. We are now beyond 2/3 of our way towards our goal of 1,000 prime A locations across Europe for our great charging stations. This portfolio of locations is the backbone of a great fast charging network that delivers returns. And we are continuing to expand our proven model at rapid pace. Again, this is not a small feat in a market where several others are trying to rationalize their portfolios of charging stations to find the solutions for the sizable long tail of unprofitable charging sites. Finally, in the fourth quarter, we raised a record amount of retail bonds totaling EUR 110 million for the 2025 combined. This reflects the continued confidence of our investor base in Fastned. The strong cash position of EUR 70 million at year-end 2025 and continued retail bond funding is expected to fund the 2026 rollout. Also, bank financing for further scaling of our growth is under development. Moving to Slide 5 to update you on an important piece of industrial policy that drives the electrification of transport in Europe. On the 16th of December, just before the end of the year, the commission published the long-awaited 2025 automotive package. To keep it simple, there are 3 things I'd like to say about it. Now let me start with the negative, but also the smallest item. Originally, the commission's automotive policy was targeting a 100% reduction of tail pipe emissions by 2035. This has been diluted to 90%. Up to 10% of cars can now still have tail pipe emissions if fully offset by green, low carbon steel and sustainable bio and e-fuels. Logically, we would have preferred the 100% to stay in place but, we understand the political need for the commission to provide some flexibility. Two, and this is the more important one, with this package, the commission sends a clear signal. The future is electric and delivers a package of measures, including the battery booster, the Green Fleet initiative and the small affordable European car initiative, all expected to drive Europe's automotive industry towards electrification. Of course, there is the knowledge that the electric car is the technology of the future and the technology is on a pathway to segment by segment become cheaper and better -- deliver cheaper and better cars with internal combustion to become cheaper and better than cars with internal combustion engines. Still, this industry policy provides additional important long-term certainty about where the market is headed and knowing it can count on continued support from vital stakeholders, national and international governments to drive adoption. Three, the package sets important directions for incentives to drive BEV adoption that are to be adopted by all member states. Most important to mention here is the corporate fleet requirements. Here, mandatory targets will be set at the member state level to support the electric vehicle uptake by large companies. And this brings me to the right side of the slide. It is industrial policy on electrification that puts the industry on a learning curve. This has happened in 2 areas in the world, in Asia or China to be specific and in Europe. The learning curve that resulted has now more or less brought most car segments to parity. And the industry is an unstoppable trajectory of lower battery and car prices. This will result in all cars becoming electric. This is what we see on the right. This is what we see on the right side of the slide. The majority of the market analysts expect this market to grow rapidly by some 30% year-on-year until 2030, almost quadrupling today's electric car fleet and therefore, quadrupling our charging markets. And this brings me to have a quick look at the development of BEV sales. Moving to the next slide. In the fourth quarter, the battery electric vehicle market continued its strong momentum with battery electric vehicle sales once again reaching all-time highs. The Netherlands, Belgium, the U.K., France, Germany and Switzerland, in all these countries, we have a significant presence. And in all these countries, we have seen strong growth of electric vehicle sales shares. In the Netherlands, full BEV sales even surpassed 40% of all new cars sold for this year, underlying how the market continues to scale and accelerate. Please note that the graph on this slide shows a slightly lower number because it is a full year best estimate based on data up to November as we are still awaiting the final figures for some countries. Nevertheless, we felt it was important to already include this recent news from the Netherlands about the full year BEV sales for 2025, surpassing that 40%. Over the past years, we've often discussed the gradual weakening of EV incentives in markets like the Netherlands, where EV sales start to become significant. That trend has continued. But -- and this is confirmed again by the numbers on this slide we show here today. The underlying fundamentals of electric cars have more than compensated for this. Total cost of ownership has structurally improved. Model choice keeps expanding across price points. Purchase prices continue to come down. Range and charge speeds are getting better at the same time. Charging infrastructure has scaled rapidly in both quality and density and societal and regulatory pressure to decarbonize road transport continues to increase. Put together, these factors mean that even with reduced incentives and subsidies, the overall value proposition for drivers to choose electric is stronger than ever. And this is a structural tailwind for Fastned growth. Moving to Slide 7 to look at how the sales of electric vehicles has grown the electric car fleets in each of our markets. On this slide, you can see how the EV fleet is growing decisively across our key European markets. The Netherlands, where we started is now at an adoption level of around 7%, one of the highest in Europe and only surpassed by the Nordics. Belgium has accelerated strongly in recent years and has now caught up to a similar adoption level. Large transit countries like France and Germany are moving a little slower, but they are clearly catching up and are at the beginning of a steep growth curve. In markets like Italy and Spain, we are just getting started. EV adoption is still slower -- is still lower. But as the car industry approaches price parity between EVs and cars with internal combustion engines, these countries have the potential in the end to catch up faster than the early adopter countries did. And this may be contrary to what many people might assume based on income levels or macroeconomic conditions. The key takeaway is that most mature markets of our network are still below 10% BEV penetration, implying a tenfold market scaling ahead of us and a threefold increase expected in the medium term up until 2030. In France and Germany, we are effectively still at day 1 of an exponential growth curve and the scaling factor towards 2030 and even 2035 is higher. So Fastned operates in a market that is growing by roughly 30% per year. And our strategy is to both drive that growth with great charging infrastructure, and to, at the same time, profit from it by using our great charging concept to continuously capture an outsized share of this rapidly growing market. And as you'll see later in the presentation, we continue to do so every year. Moving to the next slide. As we look at this slide, the story is very clear. We are at the tipping point for price parity between battery electric vehicles and traditional combustion cars. And we've been saying this for years, parity already arrived earlier in the larger, more expensive segments. For example, when the Tesla Model 3 came to market and could compete head on with premium [indiscernible] Sedans. That was the first wave. What we're now seeing is that this shift is moving segment by segment through the market. And today, the medium and smaller segments are starting to hit that same tipping point. BEV prices are falling rapidly and are on track to become cheaper than their fossil counterparts. This is driven by powerful forces working together, falling battery prices, continuous technology improvements, massive industrial scale-up and a regulatory environment in Europe that clearly favors zero-emission vehicles. At the same time, ICE volumes are collapsing. In many segments, they are already down by 50% to 80%. That destroys the scale advantages that used to make combustion models affordable, maintaining something like a EUR 33,000 VW Golf becomes very hard when you no longer have the volume to support that platform. On top of less scale advantages, one has to add the additional costs to make such cars compliant to very strict emission regulations. So when you compare price range and charge speed in a stable, you're not just seeing where we are today, you're seeing a snapshot of when the lines are crossing. The economics are shifting decisively towards BEVs segment by segment, and that shift is permanent. So that is what I wanted to say about our markets. Moving on to talk about how we developed the company. Here, I wanted to mention, in Slide 9, 4 important highlights from last quarter. Germany, we've now reached an important milestone, 50 charging stations in the country, and our team is working hard on further rollout of stations and on delivering the early tender wins for both the regional and motorway tender lots, which together form part of the Deutschland nets framework. These tenders put us on a clear trajectory to roughly fourfold the network to around 200 stations in the coming years in the country. What's more? These stations are not just anywhere, they are at A locations along key transport arteries and in affluent densely populated areas, which are also the most BEV-dense parts of the country. This is the direct result of Fastned having secured the right tender loans, and it positions us very strongly for future growth. Belgium, our team in Belgium delivered, on the same milestone, 50 stations. And with them being on A locations along key transport corridors, it is these 50 stations that make Fastned the leading charging company of the country. Moving to saint Yvi, the first 0 emission service area in France. We almost couldn't believe it. The first tender for an all-electric service area in France is issued for the location saint Yvi, that's funny, right? While the news gets even better. Fastned has been selected to build and operate France's first all electric service area at this location in Brittany. This is a major milestone for electric mobility in France and a big win for Fastned to continue to drive our advocacy on a need for tenders. The site will feature 6 400-kilowatt charges per shop and proper restrooms. After pioneering this vision in [indiscernible], Belgium, France now becomes the second country to adopt all electric service areas, underlining the shift in thinking of policymakers. On retail bonds, I mentioned this one before. Fastned raised over EUR 39 million in its third bond issue of 2025. The largest single bond raise in the company's history, bringing total funding from its 2025 retail bond program to approximately EUR 110 million versus about EUR 82 million in 2024. The scale, repetition and rollover in the program underscores Fastned's ability to consistently access retail debt markets to support our high-growth CapEx investment plans. We've also installed the first megawatt charger in the Netherlands at our Aalscholver station on the A6 motorway. This shifts the technical frontier of public fast charging from hundreds of kilowatts towards megawatt level. This is an important development for several reasons. First of all, to learn and test; secondly, to ready ourselves for trucks and cars coming to market with higher charge speeds. Just look at announcements from BYD on flash charging, or CATL. This technology will soon find it's way into European cars and on to European roads, and we want Fastned to be ready to deliver and profit from this development. Moving to Slide 10 to update you on our network expansion. What I would like to say about network growth, 3 things. One, I'm very proud of our team and how they delivered on our network expansion plans last year. At year-end, we had 406 charging stations operational which means we have opened 60 additional new charging stations in 2025 within our guidance range for the year. You can see this number in the box on the top left. Two, we have been significantly ramping up the number of construction projects. This is more than just new stations. We expanded existing stations to accommodate more chargers. We have been adding shops and kiosks to our charging stations to make sure customers can enjoy a coffee, sandwich and toilet break. These are works that are incredibly important to deliver a great customer experience. This number is not on the slide, but in total, we delivered more than 92 construction projects in the year. Three, looking ahead, I see that the team is making good progress on increasing pace and smoothening the delivery of stations from a, let's say, push year-end mode to a more stable quarter-by-quarter delivery of stations. Making the calculation using the numbers on the slide here, in 2025, we, in total, built 60 new stations. In the last 3 quarters, we've built 53 charging stations. And currently, we have 26 stations under construction of which we expect the far majority to open before the end of this quarter. Digging a little deeper, last quarter, we reported to have 30 stations under construction, we delivered 26 of that. So that's more than 80%. Today, we have 26 locations under construction for Q1, to compare in the first quarter of 2024 and 2025, we opened 10 and 7 stations, respectively. So base is increasing, and the curve is smoothening. This brings me to our guidance for 2026. We expect to build at least 70 new stations, while pushing to grow by hundreds. The latter would bring the network to 506 stations at year-end 2026. And this brings us to the financial insights for this quarter. And therefore, I'd like to hand you over to Victor Van Dijk, our CFO. Next slide, please, and the word to you, Victor.

Thanks Michiel, and welcome all. On this slide, I wanted to put revenues per station growth in perspective versus the overall public charging market growth and infrastructure build-outs. As discussed during the H1 results, we have seen a very strong build-out of charging infrastructure in the market, especially in 2023 and 2024 when the infrastructure grew faster than the growth in the BEV fleet. What we saw starting in 2025 and expect to see in 2026 and the coming years is fleet growth above infrastructure growth again, which provides for a better market dynamic than in 2023 and 2024. So that is positive. Fastned has outgrown these market dynamics throughout these years when looking at revenue per station growth, as you can see in the graph, and we expect to continue to do so. With this, we also expect to outgrow the public charging market in 2026 and guides for average revenues per station of EUR 350,000 to EUR 400,000 in 2026. That is a 12% growth at the midpoint. Next slide, please. Here, I wanted to shed some light on the performance of our stations in countries at different stages of the transition. Dutch and Belgian station revenues are around EUR 450,000 annualized Q4 2025, and we expect other countries to grow to this over the coming years with BEV fleet penetration growing. What this slide shows is that sales per station in our less mature markets follow almost the exact same path as they did in the Netherlands over the last 7 years which we added in Slide 16 -- 17 of the appendix. In 2019 in the Netherlands at a 1% BEV fleet penetration, we did around 100-megawatt hours of sales per station annualized, like we do in Spain and Italy right now. In 2023, in the Netherlands, at a bit over 4% BEV fleet penetration, we did around 370-megawatt hour sales per station, like we do in the U.K., Germany, France and Switzerland on average now. Belgian sales per station are comparable to Dutch station sales right now at a comparable BEV fleet penetration. This shows the dynamics in newer markets are very similar to historic dynamics in the Netherlands. And it shows that Fastned's model is fully replicable in these markets. And this gives a lot of confidence in the growth potential in these markets as we know that BEV fleet penetration will go up. Therefore, we expect that over the coming years, the station revenues in less mature markets will grow to the current Dutch level of EUR 450,000 revenues annualized and beyond driven by an increase in BEV fleet penetration. Going to station economics on the next slide. We grew energy sold per average station by 10% last year. So that is the combination of organic growth of selling more at existing stations plus the sales at newly opened stations in 2025. Organic sales growth. So the sales growth only at the existing stations came in at 18% for the quarter. This tracks very nicely again with fleet penetration growth, which was 20% for the quarter. Note that building stations in less mature markets has a dampening effect on our overall average station sales growth. We estimate this effect at minus 2% in 2025 and minus 4% in 2026. But of course, building in less mature markets is valuable. As we are convinced, those stations will follow the same revenue growth path as in the Netherlands and Belgium, as explained on the previous slides. Gross margin per station increased by 21% year-over-year to EUR 300,000 due to volume growth, the price increase and lower energy costs. The station economics are quite unique for our sector, with sales per station close to 4x higher than the average of the market and utilization at around 2x the average of the market. They are a testament to our high-traffic locations, our best concept and customer experience. With that, we haven't felt pricing pressure. The majority of the fast-charging locations of competitors are deeply and structurally unprofitable due to poor location choices and/or a poor customer concept. Lowering prices won't fixed that. Actually, it will deepen losses. So we haven't seen that happening in any significant way. Our proven concepts replicable across markets at different points of EV adoption gives us a lot of confidence in continuing to expand our network. We will build the capacity to cater for the strong growth in BEV fleets across our markets in the coming years. That brings us to the final slide of the presentation on our guidance.

Thanks, Victor, for the deep dive and clear explanations on station economics. As always, we end with our outlook and guidance. During the presentation, we already discussed each of these items, but let me quickly bring them together here. Let's start with network growth. We closed 2025 within our guidance range at 406 stations. And with construction pace ramping up, we guide for 70 to 100 new stations this year. Revenues per station in 2025 came in at EUR 335,000, nicely above our guidance range. We showed you how the BEV market and public charging infrastructure supply is expected to develop, which also formed the basis for our 2026 outlook of station revenues of EUR 350,000 to EUR 400,000. As mentioned, today's trading update is top line only. So the guidance review on EBITDA is planned for the release of the annual report in March. Before moving to questions, I'd like to briefly circle back to the broader context, which is now even more positive. The 2035 automotive package sends a very clear signal, the future is electric. On top of that, the performance of our stations and the way we have scaled since 2012 is what gives us a lot of confidence. And on that note, I'd like to conclude by saying it's been a great fourth quarter, and we're excited about the road ahead, and we look forward to continuing this journey with you. So thank you all for listening. And with that, we're happy to take your questions. I now hand the word back to the operator.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Thymen Rundberg from ING.

Two for my side. The first one is on the cash position. You reported a EUR 70 million cash position at the year-end. And I just wanted to ask you if you can help us understand the key drivers behind, in our view, what was a higher-than-expected cash outflow in Q4. I assume this is very much CapEx related. I see that grid connection costs continue to increase, but also a significant number of existing stations getting expanded, redeveloped or upgraded. So basically, just wanted to better understand the cash-out dynamics and also the impact of existing station expansion and upgrades and how these are expected to continue in 2026? And then my second question is actually on the megawatt charger that you mentioned in your presentation as well. So with the first one now installed, how do you see this type of charger fitting into your broader network strategy over the next few years? And is it possible with the existing grid connections at your current stations? And if you install -- if you intend to install these at all your existing locations?

Let me start, Thymen. Thanks for the question. Let me start with the cash position. Yes, it's indeed due to the stations we built in Q4 that is, of course, a large part. What is also a part is the -- we had a bond maturity in the fourth quarter of about EUR 7.6 million. So that also adds it to that. And then there's indeed on the station -- and there's station expansions. And like you rightfully say, we see that, yes, the CapEx for stations. We see that going up. We also indicated in the presentation in the back. Yes, and all that combined leads to the cash out in Q4. I hope that answers your question.

Maybe then on the megawatt charger. I think the fit in the strategy, I think, at a very high level, we see the market continuing to develop in terms of technology. So we expect cars to be taking more power. We see already cars on the market today that can take 400 or a little bit above. I think, for example, about the smart #5 I think it takes around 420 kilowatts as an example. The BMW Neue Klasse also is capable of taking more. And we see CATL, BYD, for example, coming with 6C, 5C charging technology. So at levels of 600 to 800, maybe even higher kilowatts. I think BYD, for example, calls it Flash Charging. So you see that moving up to a megawatt, and in our view, is something we will see scaling the market because it makes an electric car simply more attractive. So that is a very important sort of piece of context, scaling the market, but then you also need to provide the infrastructure. And that is, I think, the second part, that's our part of it. we see that the faster we can charge, the more attractive fast charging becomes, and the higher the throughput is that we can realize at our stations because cars simply don't spend 15, 20, 25 minutes on a charging position, but they only need to stand there maybe 5 or 10 minutes. So the throughput of the locations can increase. Then if you look at the technical implementation, basically on all the sites, we have very significant grid connections being deployed. And that is an investment that we made into the future to be able to, let's say, to take advantage of the hockey stick, if you might like. I think what you also see more and more is that all charging stations in the longer run will have battery buffers to make sure that the higher peak loads created by, let's say, 1 megawatt or more charging are taken by these buffers. And we are also working on that to make sure that we basically have the entire landscape of energy management, faster charging and batteries covered. So that may be on that topic. Does that give you a bit of an answer to those -- yes, let's say, I think quite broad questions?

Yes, yes, indeed. And just to follow up on the last one. So is it right then to infer that you ideally would like to roll out these megawatt chargers at all your existing locations, given that you already have the grid connection available?

No. So the existing locations, there won't be meaningful changes in the setup. And we have a lot of capacity left in -- with 400 or 300-kilowatt chargers, yes. So our average charge speed is now around 70 kilowatts. So there's still -- yes, if you can charge -- a charger can do 300 to 400 kilowatts, we have a lot of capacity there left headroom. So that's -- we don't see a CapEx cycle there. But for our new stations, it's simply more efficient to work with these [indiscernible]. So we'll definitely look into that. We're testing it. And if it works, and then it's a likely solution for new stations.

This is also why the unit has 1 megawatt of power, but it can divert to more than one charging spot, right? So it's a way to, on the one hand, be efficient and work with that significant headroom there is in the market. And on the other hand, like make that peak load available. So important new technology, but as Victor says, like not necessarily something we will see happening on existing stations that much, but in future sites, definitely, yes.

The next question comes from Nikita Papaccio from Deutsche Bank.

I would have also 2. The first one is on your guidance. So thanks for all the details on the cost structure we should expect for 2026. Having this in mind, how do you expect to grow your operational EBITDA margin? And the second one, more broader on the industry. The latest studies show that flexible pricing could improve demand for individual stations. What are your thoughts here? So could we see flexible pricing by station or time in the coming years?

Yes. Thanks, Nikita. I'll start with the guidance question. So operational EBITDA margin. So what we also indicated that we see network operating cost per charger stabilizing around the level of 2025. And we also indicated that we see revenues per station increasing. So that should stabilize or actually improve operational EBITDA margin. I think that's the short answer. So the network operating cost per charger have been growing in the previous years, but we see it stabilizing this year. I think that's an important message. On flexible pricing, do you want to take?

Yes. Maybe I think you're asking about improving demand. So I think we're talking about improving the catch rate of the existing stations or of stations and maybe specifically of pricing. I think there's many ways in which you can optimize catch rate. You can think about marketing, improving signage, improving the user experience on site by creating a customer preference. So there's many things that we're working on, on that topic. Pricing is one of them. I think the industry is coming from a, let's say, quite simplistic pricing scheme. So we'll see also changes on that. And yes, I think there is a lot for us to win. And I think we've talked about this over the year already a bit that we see, let's say, 2, 3 years ago in an environment with EUR 10 million revenue, you cannot hire teams to optimize revenue. But during the context of, let's say, EUR 100 million or a couple of hundred million euros of revenue, there is a reason to do that. So it's definitely a trajectory that we're on. So we're -- I think maybe in that sense, just scratching the surface. We're seeing a lot of things that will happen in that area in the coming years, but not something I can just give you today. So the answer is yes, but no direct news yet.

The next question comes from Luuk Van Beek from Degroof Petercam.

First of all, a question about the investments that you've done to reinforce the organization. You already commented on the more stable rollout pace over the quarters. But I was also wondering if you can comment on this, say, the time lag between securing a location and opening it if that is reducing as well. And on the cost efficiency of developing a location, if that's improving? And my second question is about the securing of new locations. You signed a number of new locations, but can you comment on the pipeline and the opportunities that you see there?

Yes. Let me try to take a bit. I think one by one, I think what we've seen, we've been investing in that organization, as you mentioned. And I think what we've been doing, one is putting the teams in those countries and replicating, let's say, what you could say what we had at the head office and the first 1 or 2 countries where we started to expand. So really building a solid infrastructure organization in each of those countries to organize that pipeline of developing sites and building sites. Two is to make sure that, let's say, they have all the tools, the suppliers, the methodologies, the processes to build stations at pace. And of course, the first stations in the country, they cost significantly more time to get a contractor up to speed to get that team organized. So we're working on a time lag. We're working on smoothening that curve, getting the learning curve in those teams. And I think at a high level, what we're seeing, I think, is that Fastned is becoming an international organization. So we used to be quite centrally organized. And now it's much more the central organization that's providing governance framework guardrails, if you might like. And the local offices, they are, let's say, over the last 1 or 2 years, being put in a position, being supported by all the tools and traits that they needed to run the execution to deliver on their local plans. And I think that whole framework is what is going to help us in the next years to further scale up. And I think, yes, what we already see, and of course, that is a bit with erratic behavior is that the construction pace is going up. We see that the number of stations permitted is going up. We see that the acquisition of sites is going up. We've seen private site developments growing a lot last year, but we just haven't seen any big tenders. So basically, the underlying engine on all these parameters is increasing pace, but we just haven't seen big tenders and that softens the site acquisitions a little bit. Does that give you a bit of color on that topic and explanation on how that organization is scaling?

Yes, that's helpful.

The next question comes from Thijs Berkelder from ABN AMRO ODDO BHF.

Question first on, let's say, the sessions per station, which in Germany even come down while BEV penetration goes up by 25% or so. In Belgium, session per station only up 6%, while BEV penetration up 50% and the U.K. sessions also are down year-over-year per station, while the fleet is up 25%. Conclusion is simply you're losing market share and maybe not against your fast charging competitors, but isn't it more likely that you're simply, as a sector, losing share versus home and destination charging where prices are, especially in a home, of course, much, much lower. And with the car range rising quite rapidly, simply the price differential is so large that avoiding fast charging stations is logical. So my question is, what is your view on fast charging versus other ways of charging? And then the second question is, again, coming back on pricing first. Your CFO says that pricing won't come down, then you confirm that you are looking at potentially using flexible pricing schemes over the day. Your competitors already confirmed they are looking at flexible pricing during the day. Yes -- isn't it so that either home charging needs to become much more expensive or public charging to prevent the market share of fast charging fading away further?

Yes. I think, Thijs, I think maybe -- I think you can sort of peel the onion in a couple of elements, right? One is the desire for customers. So we see cars coming to market with higher and higher charge speeds. And at the same time, AC infrastructure is not -- that proposition is not changing. So there is a continuous technical development and ask for faster charging. And people are coming to our stations. We see that scaling. We see growth at stations. I think if you dive deeper on the markets, I think in -- if you look at the U.K., for example...

Sorry, which stations -- which stations?

Stations in the Netherlands, in Belgium. So you see generally many markets where the take-up of sales at these stations increasing. I think what you point out is that there is some markets where, let's say, the scale of the Fastned network needs to increase significantly to start capturing more of that market growth. And that is a trajectory we're on, right? So that's just -- that needs to happen. You need to open burger places to sell more burgers. So I agree there. I think on the desire to fast charge versus slow charge, I think we're very clear on that. We don't expect the entire market to start fast charging, but we see that there is a need for people that don't have access to home charging, longer journeys, all kinds of use cases to have access to fast charging and that being very reliable, et cetera. That's proven again and again. And I think when you come down to pricing, I think there, I think I'm fully with you. On the one hand, I think we will see the effect what Victor says is that infrastructure needs to deliver a business case to continue to scale. On the other hand, there are areas in the day and the week where utilization is lower and where you could play with certain price offerings, be it flexible pricing in time, et cetera, et cetera. So one doesn't exclude the other. And I think that is an important remark. And we see some parties in the market, clearly, I think you're mentioning them or you're referring to them. We see them already playing with that. And there is -- yes, certainly a lot of logic to do that as well.

I think maybe to add to that. So indeed, in the evenings, in the night, our stations are not utilized. During the day, they're utilized quite heavily. And so that first part gives us the ability to indeed look at pricing offers and then potentially be more attractive than the other charging modes like AC charging. And that is big volumes there, so big potential there. So -- but we need to develop that capability, and that's something that is on our road map for this year. Yes, maybe an opinion on why others are doing this more because others -- we have our stations very much utilized during the day and others have simply less utilization. So they probably feel forced to do this sooner than us. But yes, there's a lot of potential. We've scratched the surface. We're scratching the surface right now.

Yes, as an industry, I agree.

There's a lot of potential to optimize station utilization and optimize the whole gross margin, the absolute gross margin you make on the station. Well, it's a good point, Thijs. It's something the industry will develop and optimize with that, the returns on the station.

And maybe it's the same point that Nikita was pointing to, right?

Maybe one add-on on the Netherlands, how you're now sort of getting more in a new targeting potentially also municipality rollout for Fastned. What should we expect from that rollout? Is that part of the [indiscernible] plan for, let's say, 2026? And can you update us maybe on the news from ACM where they want to have 2 suppliers for future site in future tenders. Have you had discussions with them? And how is this opinion developing at ACM?

Yes. So maybe on the municipalities, it's a project that we've been working on for a long time, gathering a lot of data, creating clarity in this country in the Netherlands around like how many petrol stations do municipalities, let's say, where municipalities offer lands to operate petrol stations and how to govern that transition. The insight roughly is that there's a significant amount is being leased land by municipalities to petrol stations and that offer the opportunity to, let's say, end those leases at the moment that it's logically to end them, so either cancel the contract in due time or just await it to end and then tender out those locations as charging stations. So that provides a very interesting platform to -- for municipalities to support the transition and to build the needed infrastructure in villages and cities to allow people to have access to charging. So for us, I think it gives us a way to also work on the tender landscape there. I think the time line, I think yes, there, I think it's difficult to say what the exact time line will be. But we've seen at least that there is a good uptake with the municipalities in understanding what is happening. It is now also with the parliament. So there is quite some building of consensus, but it will take years. And I think if we then move to the motorway landscape in the Netherlands. So, yes, we await the retendering of locations there. A significant amount of our concessions on that road network ends in the period, let's say, 2028, 2030, a little bit beyond, and there's a smaller portion, although important sites that last a bit longer because they were developed later. Well, first of all, I think maybe important to mention, this is something which is incredibly important for the industry and for Fastned and for EV drivers because the investments in those sites, they've been made on a 15-year horizon, horizon that is shrinking in that sense. So a new concession is important there to allow for a next phase of investments. So that's one. I think two is the legislative package, which has been developed in, let's say, collaboration with market and et cetera, et cetera, that is currently out. It's under review. I think we can say it looks good. A lot of the important items that we think are -- should be there are in there. I think about separate concessions for charging and petrols, unbundling of tenders. So I think that looks good. Maybe on the topic of ACM that you mentioned, I think it's also important to note that the feedback of the ministry on that document is there. Maybe to touch upon that, their feedback is -- could be interesting, let's say, competition on site, but there's several aspects that we need to take into account. And we're talking about traffic safety space and not just cars alone, but all services that need to be provided, parking, rest, petrol, et cetera. So they say, yes, the majority or a very significant amount of locations, we do not see any logic to have more than a single concession for petrol and a single concession for charging. There will be sites where they see the space available to do so, and they will evaluate whether also the traffic is there to make such investments logical. Well, then the next step is the tenders. That is, of course, something that comes after, let's say, the legislative basis. We expect that the ministries will start to work on that and a road map to look at which sites first and what the plan is there. So that is for the coming 1 to 2 years. Logically, we are also preparing on our side. So I think good progress. Fastned is very well positioned to win a significant and good share of those upcoming tenders. But -- and I think that's also I have to mention, we will logically not win all these tenders. So the network along the motorway in the Netherlands will shrink. And I think that is a logical thing to expect. The situation that is there today that Fastned has, let's say, 80% of the motorway locations. That is not a logical market situation in the long run. And that is also one we advocate for. So we advocate for transparent tenders where quality and the best parties may win. And that is a storyline that helps us to scale across Europe, but that same storyline will mean losing a number of sites in the Netherlands, although given our fantastic concept, we see country by country that we win more than our fair share of tenders. And I think that is also a good outlook for the Netherlands. So a bit longer story maybe than usual, but I thought a good question, Thijs. So maybe this is, I think, the information that you're looking for. Shall we, based on that, move to the next question.

The next question comes from Paul de Froment from Stifel.

So 2 questions for me. The first one is on Slide 11. Can you detail the number of 18% related to charge point growth? Is it related to public charging points, high charging -- fast charging points? Does it include home charging? So if you could detail a little bit this number, it would be helpful. And my second question is related to the [indiscernible] package. You mentioned it several times. And I was thinking about grid connections and grid permits, do you expect to see first positive impact as of 2026 or later?

Yes. Thanks, Paul. On your first question, on Slide 11, the 18% is the projected increase in public charging infrastructure, and that is both fast charging and slow charging. So I think that answers your question. And then on the automotive package, I'll hand over to Michiel.

Yes. So the automotive package on grids. I think it's difficult to exactly say when that impact, let's say, will be seen in actual requests and being handled faster and getting capacity faster. I think what we do see, I think, and that's maybe also because, yes, that package is out, but there is also a physical constraint, right? I think what we do see already is that the push for change, the push for flexibility is moving. So we have recently seen that grid operators start to become more flexible and see that Europe is pushing, the Dutch government is pushing. So we do see change there. But given, let's say, the physical constraints, that doesn't mean that it is -- the problem is solved. So we would expect, let's say, the will to enable technical solutions to solve the problem, a battery, flexible power, smart IT to work together to solve it. That I think that will is increasing, but that doesn't mean that suddenly, there is capacity, which before didn't exist. So let's be very clear that there is no magical solution there. Does that give you context on that topic, Paul?

Yes.

Then I think we're coming to the last questions, right? Any last questions?

The last question comes from Jeremy Kincaid from Van Lanschot Kempen.

I've got 2. The first one is on your CapEx guidance per charger. Last year, it was EUR 130,000. This year, it's EUR 160,000. Could you talk to the factors which are causing that to increase? And then my second question is just on costs for 2025. I know you can't provide any exact numbers, but I was just hoping if you could outline any factors that we should think about or if there are any factors we should think about when it comes to costs in 2025, particularly on the network expansion side?

Yes. On the CapEx guidance, indeed, we see -- we're actually going up, as you said, from EUR 130,000 per charger to EUR 260,000, that is all costs, including the grid connection and also the -- what we call the civil works. And that is the places where we have seen the cost increase. So it's not on the charger part, but it's only the grid connections. We see a cost increase there in certain markets. And also on the civil works, we see a cost increase yes, and that is -- yes, it's on the one hand, some markets simply have higher costs like Switzerland, U.K., they are significantly higher grid connection costs. And yes, when there -- with their share of the overall locations increasing in our total mix, that also has an impact on the average cost per charger. And yes, it's a similar story on the civil works.

Maybe to add a small note, I think in the beginning, I think the Netherlands is a very large basis of our build. The Netherlands only has, let's say, 2 large grid operators and 1 smaller one. So let's say, 3 serious players that govern, let's say, what a connection looks like. So that standardizes things a lot. Germany maybe has 800 good operators. So that gives you a bit of context on a level of standardization. And logically, you see that also back in cost levels. And the U.K. has a network, which, although there is some level of consolidation at the network is old. There's a lot of differences in the network, so that leads also the higher cost of the tactical implementation. So I think that is, I think, what but maybe gives you the background on why there is a difference.

And then on network expansion costs. Also there, we indicated -- we gave some indications. So there were around EUR 23 million in 2024. We expect them to roughly double by 2026. And that is, yes, the build-out of our teams in the markets that we have talked a lot about over the last 1.5 years. And that is to build out we need to do to scale our location expansion. We have done a lot over the last 1 or 2 years, and we need to do still a bit more in this year. And then we expect also that element of the cost structure to taper off the growth in that, like we see on the network operating cost now for this year. We also expect to taper off the increase in network expansion costs after this year. So I hope that gives some further context.

Maybe to give you a little bit of context from my side, again, like, let's say, from the organization, I think the goal is to build a machine that can acquire, build 100 to 150 or a little bit more sites per year. So that is, I think, that has a cost to it, building that machine in terms of people, et cetera, et cetera. And that is, I think, the cost that Victor is referring to, and we expect to still be finalizing the build of that machine, that organization. But we don't expect, let's say, to continue to scale directly thereafter. So I think that -- it's not a moving line. Does that answer your question, Jeremy?

Yes.

Do we have other people in the line that still have questions available for us? Or are we then through?

There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing statements.

That's great. Thanks a lot, and that makes it efficient call. And I would say, thanks a lot for listening. Looking forward to see each other with the release of the annual report and the first quarter figures. Yes. Bye-bye.

Thank you. Bye-bye.