Fedbank Financial Services Limited (FEDFINA.BO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Fedbank Financial Services Q3 FY '26 Conference Call hosted by Equirus Securities. [Operator Instructions] This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shreepal Doshi from Equirus Securities. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Steve. Good morning, everyone. We welcome you all to the earnings conference call of Fedbank Financial Services to discuss the Q3 FY '26 performance of the company. Today, we have the management of the company represented by Mr. Parvez Mulla, MD and CEO; Mr. C.V. Ganesh, CFO; Mr. Shardul Thakur, CBO for Small Ticket LAP business; Mr. K. Suresh, CBO for Medium Ticket LAP business; and Mr. Jagadeesh, CBO for gold loan business. We also have Mr. Lokesh, who recently joined her as the Investor Relations head. I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Parvez for his opening remarks. Post which, we can open the forum for question and answer. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Shreepal. Good evening, everyone. I would like to extend a warm welcome to all of you for joining the Q3 FY '26 Post Results Earnings Call. I'm joined by our CFO, Mr. C.V. Ganesh, our 3 CBOs, Mr. Shardul Kadam, Mr. Jagadeesh Rao, Mr. Suresh Kumar; our Chief Risk Officer, Mr. Vikram Rathi; and Mr. Lokesh Pareek, our new Head of Investor Relations. The priorities for your company remain the same, which we had articulated at the start of the year, namely, one, conserve and allocate capital to businesses with high ROA and ROE focus on our twin engine strategy of gold and LAP business to move towards a fully secured lending portfolio, expand gold business through branch expansion and increased doorstep coverage, continue to foster synergies between our gold and LAP operations. Six, within LAP, we will concentrate on a combination of high-yield ST LAP and low-risk MT LAP. Seven, expand MT LAP with minimum capital allocation. Eight, we had faced challenges in our ST LAP business. We were rebuilding it over the year, rebuild ST LAP and established leadership and build team for growth and quality. Nine, continue strengthening our collection infrastructure to effectively manage delinquencies. Ten, aim for increased core income while reducing reliance on DA income, use DA as a capital allocation strategy. Eleven, move towards a frugal cost structure. Twelve, ensure that credit costs remain 1% plus or minus 10 bps. With respect to these priorities and more, we have taken the following actions in Q3 FY '26. On the gold business, we have recorded a remarkable quarter with the AUM growing 52% Y-o-Y and tonnage growing 5.1%. Our LTVs on AUM stand at 59.3%. Last quarter, we got a lot of questions, and we had spoken about our seasonality in this particular business. This quarter, we have disbursed INR 7,853 crores in gold loans, marking the highest amount ever achieved by the company in a single quarter. Consequently, this has led to a net AUM growth of INR 1,174 crores. We have opened 54 new gold branches this quarter, bringing our total new branches to 113 for the year. In accordance with our guidance, we will keep opening new branches in the upcoming quarters. Despite opening 54 new branches, our AUM per branch has reached INR 13.3 crores, reflecting an increase of INR 0.91 crore per branch during this quarter. In our collaborative initiative involving gold and ST LAP, we have successfully merged an additional 14 branches. This means we have co-located 63 branches this year. That is 63 branches of ST LAP have moved into 63 gold branch premises and release the ST LAP premises. We will persist in our efforts to merge and co-locate more branches. Despite facing yield pressure, the MT LAP business continues to perform consistently, disbursing INR 545 crores this quarter, while maintaining its yields. In light of the pressures within the ST LAP market and the increased rate costs faced by the company previously, the company has fortified its credit policies and successfully transitioned to the system-driven BRE. This quarter, ST LAP division has disbursed INR 208 crores. As promised, our unsecured lending portfolio continues to diminish, now constituting nearly 0.6% of our on-book assets. The senior leadership has been successfully onboarded in collections during Q1 and Q2. We have further strengthened the field team now. We have verticalized the collection framework incorporating additional resources for both call center as well as the legal and recovery teams. Our credit cost, as promised, stays below 1%. This quarter, we have clocked about 0.9%. In line with our priority of increasing core income and decreasing DA income, our net income from DA has decreased to INR 1 crore for the 9 months FY '26 compared to INR 62 crores for the same period last year. While we continue to implement corrective measures in our ST LAP business, we anticipate certain flows, which will persist as advised earlier and as guided earlier. Once we stabilize in the near-term, it will contribute to a more stable and predictable performance. Some of the key numbers are as follows: our business AUM reached INR 17,500 crores, translating to a growth of 17% Y-o-Y. If you exclude the BL business, it will be about 32% Y-o-Y. Gold reached INR 7,905 crores and AUM growth of about 52% Y-o-Y tonnage growth for the year came in at 5% Y-o-Y, reflecting -- touching 11.2 tonnes in totality. Our mortgage AUM reached INR 9,084 crores, and AUM growth of 20% Y-o-Y. Our disbursals of INR 8606 crores in Q3 FY '26, up 96% Y-o-Y. On the profitability and asset quality, our net interest income grew 16.8% Y-o-Y to INR 318.9 crores. Our operating profit grew 11.7% Y-o-Y to INR 149.4 crores. Our credit cost for Q3 stands at 0.9%. Our net profit stood at INR 87.9 crores in Q3 FY '26. Gross Stage III stands at 2.1% versus 1.9% last quarter. I will now hand over to Mr. C.V. Ganesh to take you through the numbers in detail.

Yes. Thank you, Parvez, and thank you, everyone, for your participation on the call. Sharing a few points to aid in better interpretation of the results. Firstly, from an asset growth perspective, our AUM ex business loans, which we divested has grown 32.5% year-on-year and 9% quarter-on-quarter. The gold loan originations have been the standout performer in this quarter. Our gold loan AUM had grown INR 850 crores in the first 6 months of this fiscal. In the last 3 months alone, which is Q3, the gold AUM grew INR 1,174 crores. Our 113 new branches for gold loans are hitting the ground running and giving us the confidence to continue this journey of branch addition. Of the loan book of INR 12,945 crores as of December 30, unsecured business loans have gone down to under 0.6%, down from 10% at the beginning of the fiscal, resulting in 99.4% of the loan book now being fully secured, either against property or gold. In this quarter, we have originated INR 545 crores of Medium Ticket LAP and done direct assignment/co-lending of INR 313 crores of the same. However, as guided earlier in the earlier calls with the NIM expansion aiding core income growth, we are consciously reducing our DA income. I'm reiterating again, it is a choice we are exercising. Consequently, we have done lesser direct assignments in Q3 at INR 313 crore compared to INR 578 crore in the previous quarter. We may continue to do lesser direct assignments in Q4 and the medium-term and migrate to co-lending. On the OpEx side, our OpEx for the quarter is up 21 bps primarily due to an increase in employee costs due to new branch staffing in the 113 new branches, higher incentives on the gold loan originations and a onetime impact of the labor code regulations of INR 3.9 crores. This impact is reflected both on the OpEx and the operating profit. Consequently, our cost-to-income has come off a little worse by about 10 bps. Other expenses have also gone up due to new branch related rent and operational expenses, higher advertising and travel spend during the quarter and higher depreciation as we increase the branch infrastructure. On the asset quality, our delinquencies in the 1-plus have gone down from 7.5% to 7.1%, and the 30-plus has also gone down from 4.6% to 4.5%. However, we had higher forward flows from stage 2 to stage 3, resulting in our gross stage 3 going up by -- going up to 2.1% from 1.9% last quarter. These are adequately provided for in the quarter. In spite of this, we have been able to keep credit costs flat at 0.9%. On the PCR front, our PCR last quarter had dropped due to an ARC sale of deeper bucket NPA, which had a higher provision coverage. In this quarter, our PCR has marginally gone up to 32.3% from a little under 32%. On the treasury side, total on the quarter-on-quarter basis, our weighted average interest cost of total borrowings has gone down 32 bps from 8.19% to 7.87%. This consistent decline in the weighted average cost has been facilitated by resets on the external benchmark linked borrowings and lower rates on new borrowings. Since our new gold loan originations carry shorter tenor than our LAP product, it has allowed us to borrow more at the shorter end with lower rates. To lock-in spreads in a declining interest rate scenario, we have increased our fixed rate borrowings from 11% of total borrowings to 29% of total borrowings. This gives more visibility on the spread going forward. On the floating rate borrowings of 71%, 41% is external benchmark based and 30% is linked to MCLR. Our incremental cost of borrowing in quarter 3 FY '26 was a little under 7.6%. Our debt equity ratio has increased from 3.78% in September '25 to 3.99% as of December '25. In summary, over the last 4 quarters, we have sequentially continued on the journey of steady, consistent and a gradually growing ROA and ROE trajectory. The ROA over the last 4 quarters has grown from 2.2% to 2.5% and ROE has expanded 130 bps from 11.4% to 12.7% aiding in confidence on our new strategy and appetite to invest more in capacity addition. With that, I hand it over to the operator for questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Digant Haria with GreenEdge Wealth.

Sir, last quarter, I had asked that when will Lakshmi Ji shine on our gold loan portfolio. So good to see that the AUM growth was good. But I think the shine has still not fallen on our income and operating leverage. If I see our old branches would have probably reached an AUM of, say, INR 15 crores, INR 16 crores per branch, the older ones. But the income line item and the operating leverage is still not visible. Like do we see it coming in the next 1 or 2 quarters or...

Yes, Digant. No, you will see it happening. See, normally, what happens is the -- when we do such kind of large originations, there is an upfront cost of incentives and other spend which is incurred at the beginning, it was recognized upfront in the month of origination, but the earnings of these loans are back ended. So it will play out gradually.

Digant, thank you so much -- I mean, I remember that question when you were -- you had asked us that why we grew only 6% and when others were growing 10% quarter-on-quarter in the gold side, and I told you about the seasonality. And you can see that seasonality playing out differently for different companies, although they are in the same gold business because geographically, we are in different sectors, which expand differently and behave differently. So that seasonality typically plays out for us in Q3, Q4.

Right, right. Right. And Parvez, 1 more question I had was, let's see, the yields on the gold loan portfolio, like the reported ones in our presentation showed that we are down from, say, 19.1% to 18.3%. So is this like a competition effect or maybe we did some schemes because this was a peak -- a good season for us. Generally, how should we expect this yield thing to move? Like is it already that there's yield pressure in the market? Or we still have enough room to do our business at our terms and condition?

No. See, at a portfolio level, when you do a substantial amount of disbursal in a particular quarter, and that has been an exceptional disbursal quarter, there will be a differential yield which we will play with, and we will play with a little bit -- I mean, it's a line call when you look at certain states where we want to play that yield. So I'm not so worried about it as the mix of the new business is slightly higher in this particular quarter, it shows in that fashion. But overall level at an entity level, I'm not so worried because that compression will -- it's not going to affect us in substantial basis points there. So it is a mix issue. If the disbursals would have been about INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores, you wouldn't have seen that kind of a depression.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Got it. And 1 last question will be -- see, like we have grown very well, say, 16%, 17% Q-o-Q. I think a lot of competition would also be doing that. So in our assessment, it just feels that next 3, 4 quarters will be the time when we have to really utilize our asset like we have such a brilliant gold loan asset, good processes, good number of branches, good employees. So I just wanted to understand if this momentum for us continues in that particular fashion, and maybe we reach INR 15 crores, INR 16 crores of AUM per branch in the coming 2, 3 quarters because competition is really catching up and maybe we have a year's time where competition will really not be very high and we can just fortify our markets. So I just wanted to hear your thoughts on the next 12 months for this gold loan piece.

Yes. So you will have to -- I mean in the start of the year also I had mentioned to you that the growth will be in line with the Fedfina strategy. We will be conscious of the price momentum. And I had mentioned to you that we will be focused on tonnage growth. Fedfina has a strategy year-on-year over the last 5 years has shown tonnage growth. If you look at the last 5 years, we have shown a 10% to 12% CAGR on tonnage growth every year. This year also in the first 2 quarters, the tonnage growth you wouldn't have seen. But year-on-year, again, you will see a 10% tonnage growth. So the focus is on tonnage growth. The focus is to take the price momentum, but not to ride on it as much as you should -- we are conscious of the fact that the price momentum is very high. So that is why you see the combination of LTV and price playing out. We've not capitalized on the LTV. The LTV has allowed to go down. So we are conscious of that. While the growth has to happen, we need to be conscious that, that growth has to be in line with what we are -- our operational processes as well as the risk that we want to look at, the price fluctuations that we want to look at. So all-in-all, it has to fall in line with what we are expecting with the gold business to do. And you will see that momentum continuing. We will capitalize on the momentum. But what I am trying to essentially say is a single company, which is doing only gold loans is very different from a company which is doing a twin product, and we will get the advantages of doing a twin product. That is how you will have to see a company.

Just -- we'll not stop our gold loans to maintain that, right? Because if we continue this normal run rate also, we'll cross 50% in terms of gold loan AUM. So we won't stop it just because we want to cap gold at below 50 or anything, nothing like that, right?

No. There is no thought in that side. It's only going to be the cautiousness on the price side, price side -- price and LTV side. Otherwise, our actions over the past quarters have shown you that we've not been worried on that front.

I just want to add, Digant, our gold loan growth will be unconstrained, okay? The character of the product mix does not determine how much we grow our gold loan or otherwise. It will continue to grow on a faster momentum than the rest of the businesses.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Nischint Chawathe with Kotak.

Actually, 2 questions from my side. One was, if you could give some outlook or trajectory of stressed loans in mortgages, I think essentially the small ticket business. How do we see it trending up from here onwards in the fourth quarter and the next financial year? And the second is in terms of how do we -- the sequential movement in yields over the last 3 quarters, it's kind of [indiscernible] a bit.

Yes. Nischint, thank you for the question. On the small ticket LAP business, just to give a context, a year ago, we had mentioned about the stress in the small ticket LAP business, specifically for our company, and we had guided the team here about what we are doing in terms of action and why our portfolio saw that particular stress. And we had said that there will be certain actions and the kind of GNPA that you could see over the next 3, 4 quarters, that is still FY '26. We had said that the GNPAs would move up or down, but we will try and maintain the credit cost below 1% at an entity level. While the flows on the ST LAP continue from the old book, we have transitioned quite a bit of this old book, which was handled by -- see, we had a manpower shortage on the collection side. And whenever you have a manpower shortage on the collection side, agencies handle these collections, and we've transitioned from that piece to in-housing that collection. Whenever you do these transitions, there is that movement happens and which is what we have faced over the past 2, 3 quarters. That trajectory, you will see in Q2 and you've seen in Q3 and Q4, it is the same vintage portfolio, which is giving us those flows. We are in complete control of those flows because there is a predictability which we had seen. We had seen the kind of the GNPA that is coming out now we had predicted that, that is the GNPA, which will flow in Q3 and Q4. So we had guided you accordingly. And that is where we think that once we get this complete in-house, which would happen by Q4. The predictability should be much, much better on the stress loan side. This fresh sourcing, which is happening on ST LAP is giving us much better numbers on the 12 MOB and the 15 MOB as well as the 18 MOB. That portfolio is looking much better. Obviously, it is coming off a new BRE. Obviously, it is with lesser seasonality, but we are confident of that number flowing completely differently. That is on the stress loan. Yields, CVG, you want to give color?

Yes, Parvez. So thank you, Nischint, for asking that question. See, one thing I wanted to caution everybody is that our yields has appeared in the investor deck, are vitiated by the DA income number. And that is precisely why we are focusing on core income and core yield. Optically, while it may appear that yields have dropped by 20 bps quarter-on-quarter between Q2 and Q3. That is merely because of the fact that in Q2, we had 20 bps of DA income, which is not there consciously in Q3. So eliminating for DA income, the core yield is the same. There has been no yield reduction. And our focus continues to be on core yield. We will continue to drive that. And I would request everybody to look at the yield, excluding the impact of DA.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Pavan with Edelweiss.

2 questions on the small ticket LAP. One, you mentioned earlier that you were facing some issues in Tamil Nadu in terms of the personnel. Have those been resolved? That's one. So will that lead to growth in the coming quarters? Second question is on the yield compression bit that you have said. Maybe on the calculated yield side, definitely take your point. But on the origination yields also, the ones that are disclosed in the presentation, there seems to be 80 basis points reduction over the last 3 quarters in the small ticket LAP, vis-a-vis only 20 basis points reduction in the medium ticket LAP. Could you please explain that? And going forward, how are you seeing the on-the-ground economy in terms of the people's willingness to borrow or ability to borrow? Yes, those are my questions.

Yes, Pavan. Thank you so much for your question. On the yield front, apart from the one I explained on the gold side as well as the explanation, which CVG gave on yield, two additional colors. One on the small ticket LAP business, definitely, there is an environment which is behaving in a particular manner for lower ticket below INR 5 lakhs. There have been companies which operate in this particular segment who have reported. There is that MFI piece, which was happening over the past few quarters, that has affected that particular segment, which is below INR 5 lakhs. And some people who have looked at this business on the ST LAP side, also, I have seen a little bit of stress on the INR 7 lakh to INR 5 lakh segment, the spillover of the MFI on that particular segment. So when we've been conscious of that over the last 2 quarters, you've seen a slight movement of the ticket size for ST LAP for us. We've reduced the exposure for that INR 5 lakh to INR 7 lakh. And that's why you see the ticket size moving up. As the ticket size has moved up, yield has dropped for the ST LAP business there. There is definitely a pressure on yield even on the MT LAP segment. Across the board in the industry, there is a pressure on MT LAP. We have not dropped the yield as much as other players in the market have dropped. We've continued to hold the yield on the medium ticket LAP. The ST LAP yield, as I said, is only being conscious of the environment. I think as the environment eases out, you will see the trajectory coming back there. Your second question was on Tamil Nadu. We will still wait for Q4 for the business to pick up in Tamil Nadu. The Tamil Nadu business has picked up, but not to the expectation that we wanted. As I had mentioned to you last quarter when specifically asked on one particular state, yes, our business had dropped in particular state of Tamil Nadu. We are picking it up. It has moved about 20%, 30%, but still some way to go. We expect Q4 and Q1 for it to come back to the disbursement normalcy. The delinquencies there are in control, but the disbursal normalcy for it to come back. We're still a little bit cautious there in Tamil Nadu.

So I'll just add one more thing on the yield on the ST LAP. See, the -- what you see on the deck is the origination yield in the last 3 months. Now that is only INR 200 crores. So if you see on the book, the yield has not even gone down by -- in fact, it's gone down by less than 10 bps on the overall small ticket LAP book.

The next question comes from the line of Shubhranshu Mishra with PhillipCapital.

So 2 quick questions. The first one is, we've seen a sharp spike in the gold loan AUM. If you can just have a split between what's been the contribution from our new branches here? And what's been the contribution from the increase in the ticket sizes? Second is that -- but the rise in gold prices, do we still expect 10% to 12% CAGR in the tonnage growth because that seems unlikely because I will get lower amount of gold collateral for the same amount of gold loans. And the third is, because we are slightly heavier on the disbursements in gold loans, which will also reflect on the AUM in subsequent quarters. Are we going to change the borrowing metric, which is slightly heavier on the longer tenor. I understand during the rate cut cycle, we tend to borrow slightly longer tenor, but are you going to make it commensurate to the gold loan tenor in the AUM?

Yes. Thank you, Shubhranshu. I will just request Jagadeesh to give you a flavor on the new branches and the old branches growth. Jagadeesh, are you there?

Yes. I hope I am audible, right?

Yes.

Yes, you are.

So Shubhranshu, it's -- we have opened 58 branches in the last quarter, and that has resulted in a better contributor to the growth. So if you see the overall contribution of [ INR 18,100-odd ] crores that we recorded in this quarter, 30% of the growth is contributed by the new branches. And balance, 70% is still coming from the existing branches. That's on one front on the contribution. Secondly, your question was on the pure weight growth and its consistency. We see that happening because of where we stand today, because our average per branch looks like it is hovering around INR 12.5 crores to INR 15 crores, and we still see a big room to reach around INR 20 crores over the years to come. So that's what our aspiration is. And we see tonnage growth playing a key role precisely because there is opportunity in the market, that is one. Second, our incentive structures, our KRAs, we have a target-linked incentive, which is linked to the pure weight growth of the branch. So every branch, every employee is driven and incentivized based on the tonnage growth that we do in the branch. So that's what our crust is from the day one, and that is resulting in such a growth. While -- I agree with you, while the price are -- is increasing, there will be chances that customers will pledge lesser gold, but there is a new acquisition which is happening, which is an engine for us to substantiate and balance that trend. But we see consistency, and we are confident that we will be seeing 10% to 12% of tonnage growth year-on-year.

CVG, do you want to give a flavor on the borrowing mix?

Yes. No, Shubhranshu, fully with you. We are going to do exactly what you have said. There is an opportunity there to have a skew towards the shorter end and that is exactly what we will do, which will aid in the NIM expansion going forward.

Just 1 question to -- on the gold loan part for the tonnage growth, with rising prices or even the prices at similar levels that we see today, if we have a tonnage growth, which keeps going on, then we are infringing on the bank ticket size, which means that it will be yield [ impressive, ] right? Is that a fair to understand?

Sorry, I missed your last point. Can you please speak?

So if we keep doing -- if we are bent on doing tonnage growth for gold loans at similar prices or rising gold prices, we would infringe on the bank's turf, right, which generally do higher ticket size in gold loans, which means that it will be yield dilutive for our gold loan business. Is that a fair understanding?

No. Basically, the retail ticket size is actually growing. Probably a guy who was eligible for INR 1.5 lakh is today eligible for INR 2 lakh -- INR 2.2 lakhs with the same gold. But it doesn't seems to be trending towards the bank's turf. If there is a trend, then the yield pressure will be managed through the CLM partnership, CLM models that persist, and we will try to encash on that. But otherwise, as an NBFC, as an AUM strategy, we still rely on the retail and retail is seeing traction. We see pure weight coming from the retail book.

The next question comes from the line of Chintan Shah with ICICI Securities.

Congratulations on a strong set of numbers. So just I had one thing on this labor code impact. So I think we already mentioned the impact is around INR 3.9 crores for this quarter. But so is that a onetime impact? Or do we see any recurring impact as well going ahead due to that? So that's the first thing. And secondly, on this gold loans or now almost we are 45% on the overall portfolio. So even if that exceeds say, around 50% or so. So that is not a challenge, right? And thirdly, on the borrowing cost, we have seen a steep decline of almost 60 bps Q-o-Q. So do we see any more -- anything more to come on that or not?

Yes. So maybe I'll take the borrowing cost first, okay? No, I think the 60 bps fall Q-o-Q is not repeatable. It's a 2-point average, so there may be a skew there. I would urge you to go by the quarterly borrowing cost sheets where we reported a 33 bps reduction from 8.17% to I think 7.87%. I think that's what you should look at. There are opportunities there because, as I said, 41% of our borrowings are still external benchmark linked. The balance are MCLR-linked. So as of now, 71% of our borrowings continue to be floating rate. As and when the transmission continues to keep happening, there is an opportunity there, though we would be sanguine about it. Now in terms of the labor code, see, the biggest impact has been baked in, okay? The biggest impact has been a onetime catch-up in terms of all the retiral benefits like gratuity, leave encashment, et cetera, due to the basic being -- needing to get hiked to 50% of the CTC. So that exercise has been done. Now going forward, how does salaries get revisited, does it get passed on? Does it get adjusted is something which we will watch how the rest of the industry adjusts to it. We believe we have the wage cycle in April to look at that and have a little more information on how peers are handling it. What we do will be relative to what the peers do, right. Now on the gold, as of now, there is no board limit or internal limit we have that it should not cross the lakshmanrekha of 50%. So we don't have any lakshmanrekha. Ultimately, we are a LAP first company, but gold is a very strong secondary product. Right now, it is doing very well. It is -- it would be perfectly acceptable and encouraged if it were to in the short-term or medium-term take the lead. And then -- but overall, as texture, we would remain a LAP company.

The next question comes from the line of Sonal Minhas with Prescientcap Investment Advisors. Line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question.

Am I audible?

Yes, sir, please go ahead.

Okay. All right. My question is with regard to gold loan, sir. I have 2 questions. First of all, I just wanted to understand since your yields are around 18%, 19%, I'm presuming, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you competing with the likes of Muthoot, Manappuram and couple of other scaled up gold loan companies. How are you seeing competition vis-a-vis the non-banking scaled up gold loan players. And we've seen commentary by these players where basically there is a directional indication that the yields are expected to come down given the competition? So that's one. Second question was with regard to your LTV. The LTV seems to be a bit higher compared to the non-banking players. So just wondered a subjective feedback from you on that sensitive observations. That's all from my side.