Fenix Resources Limited (FEX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Fenix September Quarterly Results Webinar. My name is Mick Collis, and it's my pleasure to be your host for this session. Now we'll be joined by Fenix's Executive Chairman, John Welborn soon. But before I introduce him, just a bit of housekeeping. This webinar is being held using Automic online marketing platform, which lets shareholders participate as well as ask questions. [Operator Instructions] As I said, you can submit questions at any time, but we won't get to them until after John has had his say. And if we do get multiple questions on the one topic, obviously, we won't ask them all. And if we run out of time and don't get to your question, they will be answered in due course via e-mail or posting responses on the website. But for now, it is time to get started. So I will hand over to the Executive Chairman of Fenix, Mr. John Welborn. John, over to you.

Thanks very much, Mick, and welcome, everyone, to this -- another record quarterly for Fenix. And it just continues to be a really exciting time. It's great to get the feedback this morning from being able to publish such a positive quarterly. I will talk about the game-changing transaction that we announced during the quarter, which is the Right To Mine exclusive 30-year license over the 290 million tonne Weld Range Iron Ore Project, which continues to demonstrate every day how big a game changer it is for our business. But first of all, looking at the operational performance, the numbers are told on the first page of the quarterly in big boxes, another record shipment, 15 ships leaving Geraldton with 885,000 wet metric tonnes of high-quality iron ore, and we're looking to continue that record-setting agenda. Very pleased to keep our costs -- our C1 cash costs at Geraldton right in the middle of our guidance of between AUD 70 and AUD 80. The performance average on the September quarter was AUD 75.70. And that's obviously all of our operating costs across our mining, our haulage and our port business to get those great results. Given that our group average realized CFR landed price on that production was just under AUD 150, actually AUD 147.60 per dry metric tonne. It demonstrates that we're making a great margin in the current iron ore price environment. Today, the iron ore price remains well above USD 100 a tonne. It's actually USD 106 a tonne. It's a great time to be an iron ore miner and particularly an iron ore miner with an expanding production profile, opportunities to continue to bring down our costs and a very, very expansive growth project program. The quarter saw us commission our third iron ore mine on time and on budget. That was the Beebyn-W11 mine. That is the key hole that has unlocked the Weld Range project. We initially had a Right To Mine 10 million tonnes. The success of our development project and production has given our partner, Baowu Steel, the world's largest steelmaker confidence to expand our partnership significantly with the Weld Range project. We increased our cash balance over the quarter just marginally to just under AUD 58 million in the bank at the end of September, that's a very impressive performance given that we wrote out a check to $20 million as part of the Weld Range acquisition, the first payment. We paid just under $8 million to our dividends -- to our shareholders in a fully franked final dividend for FY '25. And we completed the CapEx spend on Beebyn-W11 and other projects. So a very, very strong operational cash result of more than $40 million allowed us to build cash in a quarter where we had significant expenses. Obviously, the operating performance has allowed us to confirm our guidance for the current financial year, which is to produce 4 million to 4.4 million tonnes and maintain those costs, C1 FOB Geraldton between $70 and $80. Obviously, 885,000 tonne quarter is a record. But to get to our guidance, and we maintain it and we're confident given that we commissioned W11 towards the end of [Technical Difficulty] at the moment. So December, [indiscernible], we're aiming for 1 million tonne quarter, another record that will demonstrate that we're on track for that positive FY '26 performance. Breaking down the numbers a little bit, Iron Ridge continues to be incredibly consistent money making. You can see the mine behind us. 6 shipments totaled, just over 350,000 tonnes from that mine. Shine, again, our second iron ore mine, steady state, 7 high-grade shipments, totaling 414,000 tonnes. And Beebyn-W11 has made in shipment and grade is performing there really well. Record 15 shipments. Logistics team hauled 932,000 tonnes, lots of expansion there. If you're in the Midwest, you'll be seeing our bright blue new haul trucks that Craig and his team are running so effectively for the Fenix machine. The growth strategy is hugely significant. I'm sure we'll get some questions on that. The Weld Range Project gives us control over the largest iron ore resource of high-grade hematite, not currently controlled by the majors. We have existing production. We've started and are progressing, Goran Seat, and his study -- expanding study team, a feasibility study on a 10 million tonne a year project. So -- there are 2 things going on at Fenix. The first one and the most important is we're continuing our high-margin production and looking to expand that over FY '26, FY '27 and FY '28. And then the feasibility study on a 10 million tonne a year project, increasing the volume, bringing down costs, we're working on defining that. And the feasibility study will obviously guide the time line, but our current intention is that, that is an ambition for FY '29. So highly profitable production demonstrated by the September quarter, continued expansion, a near-term focus and a long-term growth strategy that will make us a major iron ore producer in Western Australia. Mick, that's a good summary of the quarter, and I look forward to some questions.

Yes. Great. Thanks, John. And look, that sound like an exceptionally positive quarter for Fenix, so well done Welborn. You're right, we do have a lot of questions from investors and participants, so we'll get into them. Firstly, from some of the analysts, who do cover Fenix, Michael Bentley from MST. He's got a series of questions. So if you can just quickly touch on each of those as we go through them. He kicks off saying, can you provide an update on how you are progressing with the approvals process for the production expansion at Weld Range?

Well, we're going very well there. The important point to note, if you look at the Weld Range project is that we're now in a position of incremental approvals. So the biggest approval we've had recently is the heritage and environmental clearance we needed for the 18-kilometer private road that we've constructed between Iron Ridge and Beebyn-W11. W12 and W-10 are immediately contiguous almost with W11. So there's no additional infrastructure required to unlock those ore bodies. We started the process. And we're moving from what has been very sensitive heritage areas to areas that are much less exposed to heritage issues. And so the -- we see the approval process from here as straightforward for the expansion of our mining activities in the Beebyn and Madoonga areas of the Weld Range project.

He says, in your early works on the Weld Range expansion, have you come across any surprises, good or bad? Or are things tracking as you expect?

I think there's a very exciting exploration upside. We've been looking at the Weld Range as the most obvious incremental expansion for Fenix for so long. And we've always knew that the Sinosteel and its 4 companies before the consolidation of project has done extensive drilling and defined a series of really high-grade ore bodies. I think the geological review of the portfolio that we now control has been really exciting in terms of the further exploration potential, there is not just for bulk tonnes, but high-grade tonnes across the Weld Range. So that's a long-term positive surprise. I think also the opportunities we have to bring down our costs continue to be exciting. We're obviously now looking at product strategies as to how that comes together. So there haven't been any negative surprises. I've said to many people that underestimated how much of a game changer this project is. And almost on a daily basis, we come across new opportunities around the strategic implications of having such a large [indiscernible] matched with [Technical Difficulty].

And just mentioning grade there, Michael says the grade for the Beebyn first shipment was 62%. Is this the sort of grade we can expect for the near to medium term?

It is in the near term [Technical Difficulty] We're actually taking the top of the W11 Ridge [Technical Difficulty]. So we would expect based on [indiscernible] continues. Long term, we expect the ore body will perform to our expectations, and that's good news because we know that it will get particularly with the index going from 62% to 61%, really strong pricing for the Beebyn-W11 ore body.

95% benchmark realization during the quarter, driven by more high-grade shipments versus low grade. How do you expect that plays out going forward with the ramp-up of Beebyn? Market discounts more broadly have also tightened up a bit. So should we be thinking 85-plus percent realization going forward, all else being equal?

I think 85%, we're obviously opportunistically selling low-grade material from Shine that wasn't originally in our mine plan. So we actually have 7 products at the moment, a lump and fines from Iron Ridge, a lump and fines from Beebyn-W11, a lump and fines from Shine and then a low-grade product from Shine. And that low-grade product is really an opportunistic plan to use our available capacity, and it also demonstrates the strong demand we see across the market for our high-grade products and all the way down to low-grade hematite products. That low-grade product from Shine is profitable, but it obviously brings down our average realized price across the tonnes that we're shipping. In medium to long term, our expectations, particularly [indiscernible] to continue to [Technical Difficulty] region, [Technical Difficulty] getting confidence target that going forward as Michael points out, the discount on low grades, the spread between the market [Technical Difficulty] and we're taking advantage of that same premium [Technical Difficulty] So my expectation is that we will try and get very close to the index across as an average as we go from [Technical Difficulty] .

And then just staying on Beebyn, can you give us some guidance on the potential to increase production at Beebyn-W11 and what your strategy is there?

The strategy has always been that Beebyn represents an ore body that we can increase production on. We're working on updating the market on the exact mine closure plan for Iron Ridge as we come to the end of that mine during 2026. And similarly, we have a decision ahead of us on Stage 2 at Shine. The intention is we will be able to maintain and in fact, increase our production as we transition from our current 3 mines, Iron Ridge, Shine and Beebyn-W11 to a Beebyn-cum production focus. So as I mentioned earlier, Beebyn-W11,Beebyn-W12, Beebyn-W10 are effectively one mining area. We'll have multiple pits there, but one crushing and screening operation and one ROM pad. And so that's why we've outsized the installed crushing and screening plant at Beebyn-W11. The feasibility study identified a 1.5 million tonne per annum mine, which allowed us to have a 6- or 7-year mine life based on the 10 million tonne Right To Mine. But we always designed the operation to be able to double and in fact, increase production from Beebyn-W11, and we'll update the market on that transition as soon as we finalize those plans. But you can expect that we will be able to maintain or increase our current production for the foreseeable future based on those deposits and obviously, the broader Beebyn deposits. And that's before, obviously, we get down to Madoonga, where we will be able to increase to 10 million tonnes and perhaps beyond.

You mentioned in your prelude, the cash costs for the quarter being bang in the middle of guidance for FY '26. Is that with Beebyn having presumably a high cost quarter? And is it fair to say the costs should trend to the lower end of guidance? Or can we expect some increased costs from the other mines?

It's a good question. Iron Ridge in Shine going really well. Beebyn-W11, the strip ratio at the start of the mine is effectively 1:1 because we're straight into the ore body. So although we do have higher cost because it's a start-up mine, we did also have the advantage of currently a very low strip ratio. So we actually see costs on an average basis across our operations of staying about where they are because of that balancing the fact that it was a great performance from the team. We continue to look at where we can control costs. And obviously, we will be aiming to bring them down from this quarter, but it is within our guidance, and that's the appropriate thought looking forward.

He says, can you please give us a bit more detail on the $13.1 million of CapEx for the quarter on Beebyn?

Sure. About half of that, so just over $7 million was the final preproduction capital on W11, and we're really pleased that, that project, again, for Fenix has come in on budget. There is $3 million of post-production capital just to complete the mine, which we'll spend in this quarter. The other capital that makes up that $13 million is just under $3 million as part of our exciting residential program in Geraldton. That's a really important project for Fenix. It's absolutely critical for our expansion plans and our employment base that we can house the new jobs and the new staff that we're employing. And there was a couple of million dollars spent on the final stages of the brand-new depot that we've built in [ Nungalu ]. That's a part of our haulage maintenance area. It's also our driver wellness training area and our refuel and truck cleaning base. That's a fantastic facility on the edge of Geraldton. And a number of other projects across the business make up that capital number.

And then a final question for Michael. Can you just give us a bit of a rundown on the [indiscernible] with Westpac?

Yes, really pleasing support from Westpac. Fenix originally [indiscernible] in joint venture took advantage of higher purchase asset-backed security style finance in order to build and stand up in that [Technical Difficulty] probably about $1.8 million each to buy a new one. And you can see that that's a significant investment, and we continue to look to expand the fleet where we're going to expand production. So centralizing that in a lower cost and more flexible facility makes sense. The headroom on that facility is around $115 million, very roughly made up of $80 million in rolling stock haulage and $30 million in the residential project funding that residential housing in Geraldton. Debt has only marginally increased from what we last reported at 30 June in terms of drawdown. I think we had around $60 million of debt on the balance sheet at 30 June, and it's probably around $70 million at the end of September. So we've got lots of headroom as we expand the fleet, expanding the fleet makes sense because it means that we'll expand the production, expand profitability across the business. And obviously, the debt that we use, we're buying hard assets. So we have a considerable asset base across the business now in land, depot in the port facilities, in the rolling stock and in residential housing. It's a significant asset base against a very, very manageable debt. And obviously, the servicing the debt is included in our operational cost numbers that we report.

We got a couple of questions from James Williamson at Bell Potter, but a couple have just come through from the shareholders. So I'll quickly get on to those before we hit James. So this one, will Fenix implement a dividend reinvestment plan if they continue to pay dividends?

Well, first of all, I can confirm that we do intend to continue to pay dividends. So we have a very clear dividend policy that says the Board will look to reward shareholders with an annual fully franked dividend subject to the profitability of the company. And obviously, with the first quarter done, we're looking good so far. Guidance is maintained. The iron ore prices are strong. We do have a very expansive growth profile. But we have demonstrated in FY '25 that we can continue to invest in growth and continue to look to pay dividends where it's appropriate to do so is the first part of that question. We're not looking to complicate our dividend picture with interim dividends or with the dividend reinvestment plan. I really encourage shareholders who want to reinvest, bank your dividend and buy more shares. That's what I do.

And this one from David Brennan, says, John, congratulations on the results. With the full year C1 cost guidance of between AUD 70 to AUD 80 million tonne. What are the main factors that will get you closer to AUD 70 or closer to AUD 80?

In the longer term, if we -- so our existing business with 3 separate mining locations, the scale that we're mining at, I think we [Technical Difficulty] industry and the scale of operation that we run, there are very -- there are really no peers to Fenix [indiscernible] based on our infrastructure, but also [indiscernible] operating teams across our West Mine mining business and our Newhaul haulage business and our Geraldton Port facilities. Longer term, when we think about the feasibility study on a 10 million tonne a year project, there is a number -- there are opportunities to significantly change our cost base. The most obvious one is spreading your fixed costs across more tonnes. So we've seen the advantage of that in going from 1.5 million tonnes to 4 million. It's not a magic fact. I mean now for the 5 years that we've been in operation, there's been double-digit inflation in the Western Australian mining industry. And if you look at any of our iron ore peers, they've seen cost escalations. During that period since I joined Fenix, we brought our C1 cash cost quarter-on-quarter down from $92 to this quarter, $75, and we've done that very consistently. And that is related to a number of cost efficiencies that we've implemented as well as the fact that we've tripled our production and spreading our fixed costs over more tonnes. We'll have the same advantage when we get to 10 million tonnes. In addition to that opportunity, there are 3 really large cost savings that we're targeting. One is larger scale mining activity. So if you think about centralizing our mining area with [ Fenix ]. We use a bigger area, so instead of having someone employed operating burning diesel operating 100 tonne bigger, we've got the same person employed using about the same amount of diesel with a 200-tonne digger. So moving twice as many tonnes out of the pit for a similar cost. So there's structural advantages as we scale up our mining activities in the Weld Range, where we'll look to capture big cost savings. In our haulage business, we're currently running 150-odd tonne payloads on public roads. Our plan is to build a private haul road. It cuts in the order of 120 kilometers off the haulage route. So that's a direct saving. You're just driving less distance. We'll also look to use heavier scale gear in that project. So big savings in a key part of our cost, which is getting our iron ore from the Weld Range to port. And then in Geraldton, we're shipping 60,000 tonne boats. So outside of our C1 cash cost, there's a USD 15, USD 16 number, which is to get the product to our customers. And we've already trialed a transshipment model. We're looking at how we could actually, without fundamentally changing port activities using the existing infrastructure, have access to cape size vessels and potentially, again, have a significant cost savings. So that at the moment, if you add in our all-in cost, we believe we've got a breakeven against the index of about USD 70 number. The feasibility study will answer how low we can go. But certainly, there's an ambition that we could change that to be much more like a USD 50, USD 55 number breakeven in the 10 million tonne a year business, which is very exciting because you can calculate the margin times it by $10 million and you get big numbers. So that's what excites everyone at Fenix about our feasibility study. We've got a great business at the moment. It's making really good money. We've got an even bigger one out there in the future.

That's great. And John, your microphone drops out every then, so apologies to the people that are listening. It comes in and out, but it's been pretty good at the moment, but apologies, and we have noted that. So we'll move on to some questions here from James Williamson of Bell Potter. He says, can you elaborate on how the production of multiple iron ore products allows Fenix to adapt to changing market conditions? And how will it enable Fenix to maximize value from the 3 operating mines.

Well, I'd love to say that we play around with our products based on the market spec. The reality is the geology of the deposits we are currently mining, given that until we secured the Weld Range, we didn't really have much choice, James. We were standing on top of the rocks that we could mine, and we're mining them as best we can. And we're maximizing the revenue by maximizing our lump out of those 3 mines and also, as we've demonstrated at Shine, creating new products, where we can in the low grade from Shine. In terms of demand, we see strong pricing across the product spec at the moment. Adrian Third, who's our commercial manager, who runs our marketing team has done a fantastic job in dealing with our offtake partners, dealing with commodity traders, but also establishing direct connections with customers. Obviously, we've got a very strong partnership with Baowu Steel, the world's largest steelmaker. We have a number of other key partners across the business, both traders and steel mills. And that allows us to market a range of products. And so the question about our existing business is really we're mining the ore bodies, and we maximize the value out of the products that's in them. Looking forward to the Weld Range, there's a much greater opportunity for us to look at the available ore sources and decide what products we want to meet. And that's obviously looking at -- if you look at the grade tonnage curve we included in the 290 million tonne Right To Mine agreement announcement, you'll have an indication of the sort of cutoff grades and the ore bodies that we can look at to maximize grade. I spoke earlier about our ambitions to aim for index pricing or as close as we can get to it. And that's something to look for when we complete the feasibility study.

Right. And James continues to say, realized pricing was impressive quarter-on-quarter. How should we think about the lump to fines ratio across the remainder of FY '26?

I think we're expecting that to be fairly consistent with the 40% at Shine, hopefully, a similar number at Beebyn-W11. And the ratio at Shine really depends on how much space we have for additional low-grade shipments, which really augment our production. So we continue to see really strong lump quantities consistent with what the last couple of quarters have shown.

You touched on some of these. Regarding the several cost reduction initiatives being explored, such as the use of transshipping, transporting around diesel. How are the trials progressing? When can we expect outcomes? And what is the potential impact on the unit costs?

Well, I described that earlier. When we can expect outcomes is an interesting question because most people who are completing a feasibility study then have to raise money and then have to build the project from the ground up. Obviously, we're already running a mine. First production was in December of 2020. And so opportunities like transshipment or incremental opportunities for CapEx to OpEx trade-offs in our mining business, we can look to implement earlier than the planned construction and ramp-up of a 10 million tonne per annum hauling operation. The team are very actively looking at that as soon as we have clear guidance on the investments we're going to make and the returns we're going to make from them, we'll be updating the market. Suffice to say, we see opportunities to increase our current production and decrease our costs before we jump to 10 million tonnes per annum.

So on the other side of the opportunities, what do you see as the key risks regarding the Weld Range Project and Fenix's pathway to 10 million tonnes per annum? And what is the Fenix implementing -- and what is Fenix implementing to mitigate them?

The flip side of what I've just said is to say the key driver of being able to boost our production to 10 million tonnes and potentially beyond is the transition from public haul roads to private haul roads and potentially the transition at Ruvidini or nearby to rail access into Geraldton. And so therefore, the biggest risk to when that happens is how quickly we can decide on what the best plan is and that get approval for the construction. Now we've just -- we've built 2 private haul roads in the Weld Range, albeit 12 kilometers and 18 kilometers, that's a good proxy for the process that we'll go through in building what would be a much longer haul road connecting the Weld Range all the way to, for example, Ruvidini or a location that's suitable nearby, heritage clearance, environmental clearance and all the other associated approvals. We have the advantage of, obviously, the previous work that was done clearing both from a heritage and environmental approval basis, the Oakajee rail corridor, which runs from the Weld Range all the way to the planned port at Oakajee just to the north of Geraldton. So that work is underway. The time line on us expanding to 10 million tonnes will be driven by the approval process on the private haul road. And so that's the biggest risk to the implementation of a 10 million tonne per annum project from the Weld Range. The good news is that, that doesn't impact our existing business, which currently is guiding 4 million to 4.4 million tonnes or our ability to incrementally scale that up while we're working on the bigger project.

Again, you might have covered these, but I'm going to ask it something might come to mind. If it doesn't, it will be a short answer. What further debottlenecking or capacity upgrades are required at Geraldton to align with that 10 million tonnes per annum throughput?

None is the short answer. We know we can do 10 million tonnes today at Geraldton Port. We have actually started our negotiations with the Midwest Port Authority under what terms we would secure allocated capacity on berth 5 of 10 million tonnes per annum. That's available, and we're very confident we can do that right now. There are ways that, that could be increased in future, and there are also ways where the efficiency of loading 10 million tonnes per annum can improve at Geraldton Port. But the shorter answer to what do we need to do at the port to get to 10 million is really nothing. Karara are doing 8 million tonnes per annum on their berth at the moment. Mount Gibson did 8 million tonnes, and they weren't constrained by capacity. They were constrained by their mining production. And we actually have larger scale. We have 3 facilities and Mount Gibson we're only using 2. So there's a very simple answer there about and that's exciting because when you look at the Western Australian Coast and think about new iron ore opportunities, they've invariably and historically always been constrained by port capacity. Balla Balla Infrastructure, Cape Preston, Anketell, The Utah Point, all of these opportunities have been around accessing stranded ore bodies. Work backwards from the port. We know we've got 10 million tonnes right now. So that's why we're working on that. And we're very confident. And if you look at the Midwest Port Authority PMax project, it's a public document on their website. You can see that in future with the investments the WA state government are making in Geraldton, we can aim for even more tonnes out of Geraldton.

That was a long way to say no, but it was -- it's great. This one, what technical or funding support, if any, is Fenix providing Athena to progress its Byro magnetite project? And how does Fenix assess the future of the green steel market?

Well, we've invested in Athena. We have a 37% shareholder. And so we've invested and supported the company in the same way, all the other shareholders are. We're a very, very excited shareholder. We think Athena is an amazing opportunity given the metallurgical characteristics of that ore body and particularly matched with Fenix as the major shareholder with our logistics capabilities and also what we see in the market longer term in terms of an increasing appetite and an increasing premium for arc furnace quality magnetite concentrate. So that's a project. Peter Jones and his -- to watch. Peter Jones and his team are working on updating the previously -- the previous management's scoping study. We're really excited to wait along with the market and shareholders to see that I think there's a huge value opportunity there for Athena and therefore, for Fenix.

And then the final one from James. Did the third-party Gold Valley contract commenced during the quarter? And how hard are Fenix pushing to win further third-party contracts?

The Gold Valley contract is no longer on foot. So the focus we had on the very successful work that we did with third-party material originally with Couffi and their iron ore mining activities. We had 1 million tonnes go through the Geraldton sheds from Couffi, and then we've had arrangements with 10M and Gold Valley was really about filling our available capacity and generating third-party revenue. The reality about Newhaul at the moment is every single truck that we have is appropriately used to haul Fenix's tonnes. And today, at USD 106 a tonne, we're making a $50 margin on every tonne that goes in a new haul truck. And so on a daily basis, we're asking where's more trucks. So the reality is that, that business is generating an exceptional return for Fenix, hauling Fenix Iron ore. And there may be opportunities where third-party business can increase our capabilities or decrease our costs. But at the moment, the pleasing reality is that 100% of Fenix's available capacities are being deployed as they should be to generate maximum return for Fenix, and that's hauling tonnes from Shine, Iron Ridge and W11. And you see that in the quarterly numbers.

And then just a final question this one from Fenix shareholder, Steve Bewley says, I note there was a $13 million CapEx in the quarter to commission W11. Is there any more CapEx required to fully operationalize W11 this quarter? And is there any other CapEx spend planned for the coming quarter?

I answered some of that question earlier. There's no further preproduction capital at W11. There's a small amount of capital on some ceiling work, which is less than $3 million in the current quarter, which is always planned. I think it was announced in the feasibility study as postproduction capital. So it's on track, and that will be delivered and is operating fantastically. The sustaining capital on our existing business is very minimal going forward. And if that changes, we provide guidance.

John, all very positive. Any other sort of closing comments from you?

Exciting times at Fenix. I just wanted to thank the team across our business, our advisers in what was an incredible deal. This is a cracking deal with Baowu Steel. The support we're getting from the broader Chinese SOEs market from a marketing sense, from a finance sense through that Baowu Steel partnership is really exciting. But I think in closing, I just wanted to thank everyone, our shareholders, for your support, but particularly the team include our advisers and our contractors. This has been an exceptional period for Fenix. We commissioning Shine, commissioning Beebyn-W11 successfully and operating our business as successfully as we are comes about through a really motivated unified team across our West Mine Mining business our Newhaul logistics business, our port business and our corporate team and all of our advisers and contractors, so well done. Thanks. There's more to come. It's going to get even more exciting from here. Stay tuned.

Fantastic. Look, that does conclude seminar. John, thank you for your time and your enthusiasm. It was great results for you. Thanks to all the shareholders for tuning in, and enjoy the rest of your day.