Fidelity National Information Services, Inc. (FIS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Good morning, everybody, and thanks again for joining us at the Wolfe FinTech Forum. We're really happy to have FIS' executives with us. Obviously, we have both the CEO and the CFO with us to have a really good chat and discussion. And look, clearly, we're really also pretty happy to see the market paying attention to valuations again. I'm looking at what we think is a higher quality than what's priced into some of these names. So it's good to see a bid behind them. And frankly, we think it's overdue. With that, Gary, Woody, thanks again. It's really good to have you.

Look, just starting off, Gary and Woody, I mean, if we go back to the 2020 year, it was obviously unprecedented in many ways. And so if we think about what positively and negatively surprised you and maybe the industry and the company specifically, it would be great place to start, I think.

Yes. It's funny. When you look back on it, the positive and negatives are kind of in this [ kind of comment ] I was really -- I think we were all really surprised how quick the world shut down. And I mean, it shut down very, very quickly. From the moment -- 3 days prior to the World Health Organization declaring a global pandemic, we were still debating, "Oh, how do we work around this? How do we do this?" And the whole world really shut down in a matter of a week or 2. What I'm really pleased with, though, is how we responded as a company. I mean within a week, we had over 95% of our employees, not only working from home, I mean, being productive from home. And we saw how our sales channel went from a traditional in-person model to no travel, to full remote, but yet our sales channels continued to close business. And you told me that we, as a company, would have been able to do fully remote implementations. Darrin, you and I talked about this in the past, some of our enterprise systems, it is the most significant change a company will go through in deployment. And it is -- it's like saying overnight, you're not going to have a doctor in the operating room, not having on-site staff to help with the implementations. I wouldn't have said we couldn't have pulled that off, but yet we did and did it very quickly. And a lot of these things will be lasting changes. Will implementations stay 100% remote? Probably not 100%, but they're sure not going to go back to the 40% remote where we were. I mean it's going to go back to 90% remote and maybe 10% on-site or something along that nature because I do think you will lose some interaction, but it's just been phenomenal how the teams have responded. And so I couldn't be prouder of the company and where we ended up coming out of 2020. We had record sales. We had record increases in our backlog. We had full deployment of implementations. Our product development stayed on path. We run some of the largest processing environments in the world. They, frankly, just executed flawlessly in the back of a -- with the pandemic as a backdrop. When I talk to a lot of people that were using other providers or, frankly, doing it themselves, they didn't have that situation. And that's further accelerated our demand and people realizing we need to take advantage of some of the investment that's been made by others like FIS and take advantage of that in the coming years.

Yes. Look, I don't think there's any denying that you guys stayed on target with your investments especially throughout the year. I mean, obviously, you're looking through what's a tough time at what could be in the reopening. But when we just think about 60-plus products launched in 2020, and we obviously don't work on Access Worldpay or the modern banking platform as some keynotes, but there's definitely a lot you're rolling out. If you could just give us a sense, Gary, of where you find yourself most -- spending most of your time, where your priorities are and what you really want to invest in, in '21 now, looking at '22 and beyond, that would be great.

Yes. Well, I mean, truly a key to our success and a key to our continued accelerate growth is to continue to gain market share and take share by launching additional products and services. So our ability to leverage our go-to-market channel on cross-sell and upsell, a huge component of that is new capabilities. So we highlight a lot of the really big movers. You highlighted Modern Banking Platform, you talk about Payments One, you talk about Digital One, you talk about Code Connect, you talk about the new acquiring platform, you talk about Access Worldpay, that list goes on and on and on. And so our ability to drive that in the market is substantial. But what I like to focus, Darrin, is really modern banking platform is really now -- I don't want to say it's on autopilot, but our teams are well embraced that architecture. They will embrace that direction. They see the vision. And now it's investment into -- you'll see us roll out a lending module, for example, that allow us to go cross-sell. I like to focus on what are the things that are coming in the next 3 years, right, the next 5 years, just like we anticipated core native -- core banking 4 years ago, and I was heavily involved in that. I like to think about now, we're working with our Chief Growth Officer, Asif Ramji; working with Bruce Lowthers and everything he's doing, really talking about what is the next payment type that's going to come, how do we differentiate around Premium Payback, for example, pushing loyalty as a currency, which really starts creating alternative rails for our customers to take advantage of what does truly the next wallet of the future doing and some of the things that we're doing around that with proof of concepts or things that we're focusing on through our accelerator or our venture investments and how all does that come together. We're really leaning in a lot on real-time payments, which you haven't heard a lot about. But when we're starting to push on that front and really eliminate fraud, eliminate the settlement delay, give instantaneous availability of funds, those are interesting things that you're going to see really take shape over the next 3 to 5 years and will be another example of things we'll start deploying in market that will look very similar to modern banking platform once we get the flywheel turning and sales being closed and transactions being migrated to those capabilities. So that's where I like to spend my time is what are the things that are going to continue to accelerate our growth from here, but also maintain that growth curve for the long term, which is why Woody and I are so confident in the 7% to 9% guide we've given over the next several years. Granted this year, it will be 8% to 9%. But when you look, there's just a lot of things that would indicate it's going to continue to accelerate as we bring new capabilities and anticipate market change.

Gary, are any of those you just mentioned as material of opportunities as to what we've already been seeing success with modern banking, Digital One, the magnitude of the wins you had there or some other recent initiatives, which have been very successful, but you listed a number of different opportunities now going forward. Would you say some of those have the same characteristics looking at this [indiscernible]?

Absolutely, absolutely. I think when you look at where we are, we haven't even gotten started on truly real-time payments, right? When you really think of what the promise of real-time payments has to hold, and you look at some of the stuff that's being deployed at this point in time that is under the umbrella of real-time payments, that's really going to go in a very dramatic way over the next 3 to 5 years. And I do think it's going to have -- and in fact, I feel very confident it's going to have that same kind of trajectory that a modern banking platform would have. I mean, really, the way payments transacts across the end-to-end ecosystem from acquiring to issuing, all of that's got to get transformed. And it's going to work very differently. In the way, as I said, we talk about availability of funds on the settlement cycle, the way we think about adjusting fraud, all of those things will be significantly positively impacted through real-time and through the deployment of real-time payments. We're well down the road with our development. We made a decision several years ago, and it was subtle, but I think people are starting to see it. 5 years ago, we made a real decision to pivot from our historical technologies to future. And I would tell you, 5 years ago, you would back in, we were spending 4.5%, 5% of revenue back into our products and services. We consciously made a decision to raise that not because we were behind, we made that decision to raise that so we can anticipate the future. And we started moving from, say, 90% to historical capabilities and 10% future to today, I would say we're much closer to a 30% historical, 70% future.

That's interesting.

We really did that in anticipation of where we felt like the industry had to move. We felt we were at an inflection point, I like to describe it. We saw -- we have the industry-leading gasoline combustible cars. We saw electric vehicles, the need for EV. And so we started investing in the Tesla first as an example. And so we start pushing that. But we also, with the Worldpay acquisition, we carved out the Chief Growth Officer position. And what we did is that really is looking 3 to 5 years down the road. So when you think about what we're doing in real-time payments, that's coming out of that Chief Growth Officer function. When you think about what we're doing with some ideas around data, that's coming out of that function. Our venture investments are coming out of that function. And it's all in anticipation of where we think the market is heading, not where the market is today.

That's really good to hear.

So [indiscernible] subtle differentiation, but an important decision that I think we made as a company to not only maintain but accelerate our growth and continue to do that.

In a world where, structurally, everything is evolving so fast, that's just really refreshing to hear, honestly. I mean, Woody, when we think about the numbers for a minute, you obviously just provided your '21 guidance, calling 8% to 9% organic growth and $6.20 to $6.40 of EPS. I know this includes the impact of some lapping pandemic comps. But can you just remind us again just what really went into those assumptions? And what kind of recovery you're baking in around that?

Yes. Thanks, Darrin. I appreciate it. I think it really shows the resiliency of the model, as we've talked about this year. Even looking back to 2020, right, we still had growth in banking. We had growth in capital markets, lots of visibility into the revenue stream. The backlog itself continued to grow. It was up 7% in 2020, provides a lot of visibility into banking and cap markets. We talked about cap markets moving from just low single digits to low to mid-single digits, really driven off of 25% plus new sales in SaaS-type deployments. So starting to get further visibility into the runway of where the revenue is coming on and how it's coming on, where it's more in line with our ability to deploy that and get it converted, so we can see the revenue being booked and billed and collected over time. Obviously, banking still has always had high resiliency and high visibility into that revenue stream. The wins we have been seeing in banking are now driving that into the mid- to high single-digit growth area, saw some acceleration in the fourth quarter. We anticipate continued acceleration into the first quarter. And then merchant, to your point, while it's going to face easier comps really beginning in Q2 and the end of the first quarter, we're looking at mid- to high teens growth in that area, all combining to that 8% to 9%. We wanted to reestablish guidance this year, obviously, giving some people some confidence in the outlook and where we're headed. When you think about the underlying assumptions, I think we believe you've got to see a continued rollout of the vaccine. You've got to see continued reopening and not more restrictions, but less restrictions over the course of 2021, which I think we're all seeing and believing at this point in time. That's kind of how we're thinking about it. We certainly established a set of numbers that we felt confident in being able to achieve as we started to reestablish guidance in here. A couple of incremental thoughts on that. We just did some refinancing work. That was not in the guide, and we'll update some information around that in the first quarter. We started buying some shares back here that was not in the original guide, and that will obviously offer some potential upside as well. So we feel really good about where we're headed as we start 2021.

Yes. I think you guys made the point on the earnings call that the high end of your range was not heroic, right? I mean it was really something that you think is very realistic and achievable versus some other companies that may put a reach of a high end, to some degree.

That's right.

When we -- I mean just before we move back to the sort of underlying trends of the business, the cadence through the year, I know it just -- maybe either, Gary or Woody, if you could just remind us again how you expect it to progress a little bit per segment, if possible.

Yes. Just some general color and then maybe some specifics on the first. First quarter, we still got some difficult comps in January and February, start to see that kind of normalize out and become easier comps into mid-March. That is playing out as we're seeing the first couple of months unfold right now. We anticipate banking to accelerate in Q1 and continue over the course of the year, as we talked about on the call. Capital markets has a difficult comp, a difficult license comp in the first quarter, and then would anticipate acceleration in Q2, 3 and 4. From a merchant perspective, we're going to see improvement off of the fourth quarter into the first quarter, but we really anticipate outsized growth in the second quarter, which provides the easiest comp and then easy comps in Q3 and Q4 as well. Just to give you some general cadence of how the year is going to flow, we provided some specific guidance on Q1 and then that's how we're thinking about the remainder of the year.

When we look at the merchant segment for a minute, I mean, I know that the spread between volume and revenue was obviously a factor just given -- I think you mentioned 35% of your volume is -- that's impacted by the pandemic is generally higher yield, right? And so when we think about what that can reverse to, I mean, can you give us a sense, sort of a refresher, what's normal when we come out on the other side of this?

Yes. When we come out of the other side and call it fully normal again, we've traditionally paced a couple of points ahead of overall volume growth based on our incremental capabilities and where our revenue streams have sat between eComm and some of the higher-yielding areas. We saw a significant discrepancy in volume versus revenue through second quarter and improved some in third quarter, went back then in fourth quarter with the lockdowns. We're seeing those yields come back closer towards volume in the first quarter, and then we actually anticipate to invert and be ahead of volume growth over the remainder of the year. So that's what we see in 2021 is really a reversal of the pandemic impacts. Once you get through that, we're thinking about high single, low double-digit growth in the merchant business, which obviously is probably a few points higher than overall volume growth expectation.

Okay. That makes sense, and that's helpful. Gary, maybe we should just touch on, when we look at the merchant -- before we go to the other segments -- look, there's 25%, at least historically, of that segment that was eComm, and you guys -- I thought it was really helpful to back out the travel-related and show that 30-ish or, I think, 35% growth rate of eComm, which really structurally shows your position is holding well. And I think the integrated side is also roughly about 25% or so of the merchant segment, right? In terms of opportunities to keep growing that rate or invest in those areas, can you just tackle that for a minute and talk about where -- what you see as the best opportunities?

Yes. Look, I think one of the things that we've done, Darrin, is -- and I don't want to take credit for it. One of the things we loved about Worldpay was that they were well down the path of investing and modernizing their technology stack when we did the acquisition. What we will take some credit for is that we bring a discipline around product deployment and around client migrations that, frankly, around integration of these large-scale transactions that really is differentiated. So I'm really pleased. When we got involved, I don't know that we really saw where the light was at the end of the tunnel to get the new acquiring platform fully deployed and, frankly, get all the customers migrated. I would tell you, you fast forward, we're completely done with that now. We -- we've now moved all of the customers but 2, and those remaining 2 customers move this month, right? And so it's now just a flywheel, and that's behind us. When you look at Access Worldpay, they really were differentiated in how they were investing there. But really, once again, getting it fully deployed, getting it integrated, getting it to be the capability that's deployed across the globe, we've now completed that. And you're really seeing that. We even won some awards on the highest authorization rates of any gateway. And so now migrating the remaining clients into that gateway is going to be something that we'll do throughout this year. So we're getting really differentiated from a technology standpoint. And then that feeds into further leaning in on eComm, which, as you said, we've always been an industry leader in eComm, you back out travel and airlines with 35% growth is the proven point of that. Where, I think, we're really starting to differentiate ourselves is in and around large complex global clients. So we highlighted a number of those. And really just tweaking our go-to-market has really driven big benefits. We highlighted Walmart. Walmart was always a great client for us in-store. And the reality is, for whatever reason, the way historically Worldpay was organized, it was just disconnected with eComm and large-scale enterprise clients. And so for us, by us changing that, we now were able to cross-sell Walmart and now start taking some of their eComm business. Why? As their eComm took off during COVID, what they started realizing is their current provider just couldn't handle the complexity, couldn't handle the data needs, couldn't handle the in-store and eComm, was suffering on authorization rates compared to what we could do. And then that Champion Challenger mode we launched, and now you see volumes starting to feed that way. Same way with the integrated channel, we saw a real opportunity to actually build out that partner and bring more of our eComm capabilities into that and integrate it because it's more than just going to card-not-present. It's all about how do you throw -- how do you bring an online experience and buy online, return in store, vice versa. There's a lot of complexity in that. And frankly, as we tweaked our go-to-market there, we're just seeing huge benefits. So I think you'll continue to see our eComm business be the top performer in the industry. We've highlighted a number of key wins last quarter, just we got tired of hearing about [ IDN this, IDN ] that. We highlighted a significant global customer that we're taking off [ IDN and off JP -- Chase payment tax ]. So a great indicator of win on our scale and global reach. You're going to continue to see us lean in on that. Last year, we had the biggest single partner sales in the history of Worldpay. We really expanded our ISV channel and really leaned in on that. So I think you'll see strong growth as we bring all of these components together and really start selling a holistic solution, but we feel great about where we are on the technology front, and we'll continue to expand with new capabilities, whether it's around data, whether it's things that we're doing with Premium Payback. I mean we don't talk a lot about this, but when you look -- and we did the Worldpay announcement, we announced $500 million in revenue synergies, and everybody thought, "Wow, how are we going to get revenue synergies?" And we highlighted last year, we had exited last year with $100 million in run rate. Last year, we exited last year with over $200 million, and that dollar amount was impacted by COVID. So I mean as COVID starts recovering like it is, you'll see the existing sales that are already [ installed ] further extend. And those are products like Premium Payback, intelligent debit routing, I mean, the list just goes on and on and on, some of the data stuff that we're doing around [ auth ]. So we're very well positioned to expand those 2 key markets for us in merchant.

And geographically speaking, I mean, is there more that can be done in terms of expansion of your capabilities on Worldpay or across the business? But really, let's focus on Worldpay and the Merchant Solutions.

Yes. No, no. It's a great question, and it was something that we highlighted in the combination. I think Charles Drucker on announcement day talked about the land grab going on and how much that FIS could accelerate the land grab. And certainly, that's [ borne out ]. I mean you've seen us getting meaningful traction now in Brazil. You're seeing us in India. You're seeing us in Australia. We're literally -- I think we entered 5 new countries last year alone, or actually a little more than that. We [indiscernible] 6, 6 new countries last year alone. So I mean we really are -- and we're -- and it's interesting. We're starting with eCommerce, starting a cross-border. But what we're seeing is now that ability to push down to even be an on-prem deployment in those countries. So there's a lot of opportunity. The thesis that was there about putting our 2 companies together and accelerating growth is really bearing out. And so we really haven't had any negative surprises so far from a due diligence standpoint around where we thought the opportunities were. In fact, as I said, some of it's accelerating. Debit routing is a great example. We -- and debit routing is not as easy as you think. You think you're just going to take all your transactions and route it across your debit rails. But if you're not careful, you'll cannibalize revenue somewhere else. So that's why I like to talk about intelligent debit routing. And once again, we were able -- the team did a great job there and really exceeded expectations. Premium Payback has been off the chart, and geographic expansion has gone very well, which we always model to be the back half of the 3-year integration.

Right, right. So it sounds like it's progressing well. Let's shift gears for just in interest of time to the Banking Solutions side, which has obviously shown numbers that speak for the investments you just talked about making over time. I mean in addition to the 3 large top 30 bank wins in the fourth quarter, I think you had 8 wins in 2020, 10 with modern banking, I mean, I can go on and on. But the reality is there's clearly something going on that's differentiated allowing these share gains. And so we took an approach of estimating at about -- it was around 200 to 300 basis points of potential boost to the growth in that segment in our estimation. I think, really, just talking about over the next few years, how many of those are now in a live, how much of that is about to come on? And I'd love to hear a little more on what you really think is differentiating you on that. Is it just -- you guys are the best for the large or midsized banks? Or is it truly more scalable than that across the industry?

Yes. I think it's much more scalable than that. We highlighted in the last quarter that modern banking alone will generate over $100 million in run rate revenue just this year. And that's not on -- that's all of our sales success last year and our onboarding that's going to onboard throughout the year. We also highlighted a couple of our -- a couple of those wins had already gone live when we did the call this last Q4. I would tell you, all of those executions are going very well, implementations. And I would also tell you, we've got a very, very full pipeline for modern banking. It's more...

[indiscernible]. In other words, remote implementations through 2020, it didn't seem like it had much of an impact on your ability to execute.

No, no. I agree. And that's my opening comments. That was something that -- talking about something to be proud of. I mean, honestly, that was a herculean change in the way we deploy product. And to be able to do that truly virtual has been phenomenal. And I give credit to the team because we had to do a lot of innovative things to pull that off, but it has worked very well, which is why it was important for us to highlight we already have now customers in production in modern banking. So some people talk about, well, is it real? Is it really -- I mean we've got customers now processing every single second, utilizing this platform. So...

[indiscernible].

Yes. It's fully functioning. And so -- and -- but it's not just modern banking. I mean if you look at where we are on Code Connect, if you look at where we are on Digital One, if you look at where we are on Payments One, these are cloud-native [ agreements ]. And we have over 1,000 clients now running on Payments One, which is a totally differentiated state-of-the-art cloud-native issuing platform. So that's why I said, we really are just getting started in the growth curve. And the way I described it -- describe it and think about it, we've got an industry today that is based on programming languages that when we hire kids out of college today and we hire 500, 600 college kids every year through our FIS University Program, when we bring those kids in, we literally have to train them on some of these languages. They're no longer trained in colleges. And interesting, the whole industry is based on it across the world. And so when you think about it, we really are at an inflection point that we're just getting started where everybody, it's not if, it's when. Everybody is going to have to migrate to cloud-native technologies. And when we're competing for modern banking, it's not the people you would think we compete with. We are literally competing with start-ups that some people have heard of, some people have never heard of. And so when you're in with the Goldman Sachs, and you're having that conversation, and they're doing a massive pivot to retail, and they're going to place that bet, it is about our modern banking capability. Absolutely. It's superior in every way. It's well ahead of where every other start-up is in the industry, and that bears out. But then it's also the microservices layer in Code Connect that the start-ups hadn't even contemplated. It's the digital experiences in Digital One, but it's also the 300 integration points that you're going to have to drive across a Goldman Sachs, that level of complexity, now all of a sudden, a start-up can't compete. And why is FIS so good in the large bank market is we can bring comparable scale to help minimize that complexity and be able to square off with them to be able to drive those outcomes. And so superior product, yes, but also superior scale that allows us to work with those kind of large complex clients. And that's why you see us being so successful in the larger end of the market, whether it's merchant, whether it's banking or whether it's capital markets.

Okay. And we get this question a lot, but I think you just alluded to your success with even Goldman end markets, but we got a question at the competitive landscape and digital banks or neo banks and whether you guys can hold your own in that. I think to your point, it -- you certainly have the differentiated offerings, but maybe just a quick word on the competitive dynamics and [indiscernible].

Yes. Look, I mean we actually see start-up -- we actually see some of the neo banks and everything that are coming out. It's an opportunity for us, right? I mean our ability to launch our banking-as-a-service platform underlying with modern banking platform, that allows us to go after market. If you look at -- digital banks aren't a new phenomenon. Digital banks have been around for probably 10 years. If you look, you can't name a successful digital bank that hadn't been powered by FIS. And so even the neo start-ups are opportunities for us. You look at some of the disruptors, people don't realize because we don't talk about it a lot, but you look at something like Apple Cash that got rolled out. Apple Cash is being driven by underlying technologies of FIS. If you look at a lot of things that PayPal is doing, we're partners with PayPal and helping enable them on a number of their capabilities they're deploying in markets. So it's really our capabilities to be able to help people come in the industry which is important. And so we just see it as really opportunities for us to cross-sell and -- or sell into and take advantage of.

Okay. We're actually almost bumping up on time, and I have a lot of questions from the audience. So let me just ask a couple of quick ones. First, I mean, do you still see a very good pipeline on RFPs or just new outsourcing opportunities on the banking side?

Yes, we do. We actually got the largest pipeline we've had, frankly. So we keep trying to give input into that every quarter. Backlog gives you an indication of sales success and onboarding. So that backlog grows, you see these are customers under contract pipelines about our future. But yes, our pipeline and our qualified pipeline is large as it's ever been, and it continues to grow.

Yes. We highlighted that on the fourth quarter call that the pipeline was up about 40%. If you peel that back, the megadeals or the really large deals within that pipeline are up about 70%.

Wow. That's good to hear. Woody, just quickly on margins since we get this question a lot, but you guided to a couple of hundred -- 250 or 300 bps of margin expansion of 45% this year, also reinvesting in the business. We -- I think I even asked this on the call, but you guys still see that 50 to 100 basis points sustainable beyond this year of sort of renormalization as realistic?

We do. We absolutely believe that. We talked about investing last year. We talked about investing this year, but seeing a bounce back in the margins with synergies rolling through this year as well, but we absolutely see line of sight to 50 to 100 basis points even after we anniversary or roll through the synergy outline from Worldpay. It's a combination of scale in the business. It's a combination of continuing to work on innovative activities like we do with data center consolidation in the past, how we'll work on modernization and platform consolidation and automation in the future, but absolutely have a lot of that line of sight to at least 50 to 100 basis points a year going forward.

And then just taking one from the audience, which kind of mirrors what we were going to ask anyway, which is, look, you now have a target for a leverage of just staying under 3 turns by the end of the year and just touch on how that leverage level impacts your capital allocation philosophy and if you can comment again and revisit whether large transformational deals is what you see as something that's a priority or whether it's buybacks at the forefront or other tuck-ins.

Yes. We highlighted that very specifically on the call to try to say, we're going to continue to delever the balance sheet and maintain a strong balance sheet. I think the strength of that balance sheet has been critical to us driving interest rate cost down and having flexibility to do transformational M&A over time, over the last decade, frankly. In the short run, I think we've talked about delevering to just under 3 turns by the end of the year. We also announced $100 million share repurchase authorization, and that gives us some flexibility to be in market banks and shares. As we talked about very specifically on the announcement and in the call that we believe the intrinsic value of the shares is below -- or the current value of the shares is well below the intrinsic value, and we'll be in market buying shares back in the short term.

Okay. And then, Gary, just on the big deals versus sort of tuck-in deal philosophy, if you can just revisit that for a minute.

Yes. I don't think our strategy has really changed. I mean we've always been what I would consider a very strategic buyer. We've been very thoughtful in our approach. I mean whether it's large-scale transformational deals or tuck-in deals, for us, if there's an opportunity that we see a new capability there and that we can drive into an existing market because we're seeing a trend going on that, frankly, we can't build it fast enough or if we can break into an adjacent market or ideally both, then we'll execute on that. But I keep coming back to the same points I always make, the deal has to make financial sense. I mean, frankly, valuations are extremely high right now. Woody talked about our stock price. It's just kind of hard to compete against share buybacks at this point in time. But financially, it's got to make sense. It's got to make strategic sense. Frankly, the cultures have to align. The reason why we've been so successful in integration is because cultures work, right? I mean we look and see, do you have similar values and similar approaches? And when you don't, there's really no reason to try to put a transaction together because it just didn't work. And then finally, it's got to be timing. And people don't realize this, but I've talked about it a lot. I mean Worldpay, Charles and I talked for over 10 years. I mean -- and there was just -- financially it didn't make sense or timing it didn't work. We always knew strategically it worked, and cultures aligned, we're very similar. But it just -- different times or different points. So being patient through that process is very important. And then when you do find that opportunity that works, then just being very focused with your execution and implementation. But Woody's points are dead on, right now, given where our share price is trading, you'll see us -- you'll see us in market, for sure. But [indiscernible] right now, [ it's us ].

All right, guys. Well, I think we're about out of time. So Gary, Woody, thank you guys so much. This is really, really helpful. And honestly, it's still a name that we're obviously super focused on as one of our topics. So I appreciate the time. For everyone on, the next session is starting in just about 3 minutes with Dan Schulman, CEO of PayPal, so if you want to tune in there. But guys, thanks again, and have a great day, and be safe.

Thanks, Darrin.

Thanks, Darrin.