Fincantieri S.p.A. (FCT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Fincantieri 9 Months 2024 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Folgiero, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Fincantieri's 9 Months 2024 Financial Results Conference Call. We are very satisfied with the results achieved, both from a commercial and financial standpoint. We recorded a solid top line growth with revenues up 3.7% year-on-year, reaching EUR 5.6 billion. Thanks to the virtuous path pursued by Fincantieri over the last couple of years, we have been able to deliver a significant increase in profitability with EBITDA margin at 5.9%, materially higher than the 5.1% reported in the first 9 months of 2023 and 5.2% at the end of 2023, with improvements in all our segments. EBITDA in absolute terms rose by 19% compared to first 9 months of 2023 to EUR 328 million, almost doubling versus the EUR 172 million recorded 2 years ago, confirming the validity of our efficiency initiatives. The net financial position was negative at EUR 2.59 billion, including the temporary effect of the rights issue completed in July 2024. Excluding this effect, the net financial position is negative at EUR 2.440 billion with an improving trend compared to the same period of 2023. In the first 9 months of 2024, we delivered 12 ships. And as we speak, we have 95 ships in our portfolio with deliveries up to 2032, supported by a robust backlog of EUR 26.4 billion. The 9-month performance, which is fully in line with 2024 growth expectation allow us to raise our year-end guidance with revenues expected in excess of EUR 8 billion, leverage ratio skewed between 4.5 and 5x, excluding positive effect of the capital increase and EBITDA margin at around 6%. Let's move to Page 5 for a detailed review of our 9 months results for 2024. Revenues increased by 3.7% year-on-year to EUR 5.583 billion with the Offshore and Equipment System and Infrastructure divisions confirming the growth of the first half of the year. In Shipbuilding, the production and delivery schedule is expected to accelerate in the fourth quarter when the contract signed in March with the Indonesian Ministry of Defense for the supply of 2 PPA units for a total value of EUR 1.180 billion is expected to become effective. EBITDA recorded a significant growth of 19%, reaching EUR 328 million with margin at 5.9%, a material increase compared to 5.1% reported in the first 9 months of 2023 and 5.2% year-end 2023, as a result of the higher margins recorded in all business segments. In Shipbuilding and Offshore, we are seeing the benefits of our operational excellence initiatives. While in Equipment, Systems and Infrastructure, we have turned around the business, thanks to the refocus and derisking in our infrastructure business and the accretive effect of the Remazel acquisition. As mentioned before, net financial position, excluding the temporary effect of the capital increase completed in July 2024 to support UAS acquisition from Leonardo is negative at EUR 2.440 billion, improving significantly compared to the first 9 months of 2023, thanks to initiatives aimed at working capital optimization and increasing cash generation, including the effect of the capital increase, the net financial position amounts to EUR 2.59 billion. On the commercial side, on Page 6, we achieved impressive results with order intake at EUR 8.5 billion, more than twice the orders acquired during the first 9 months of 2023 and higher than orders recorded in the entire 2023, with a book-to-bill equal to 1.5x 2023 revenues. As a result, the backlog reached EUR 26.4 billion, up 14.3% compared to full year 2023, with the total backlog, including the soft backlog, reaching an impressive EUR 40.1 billion, in line with the record levels achieved in the first half of 2024 and equal to 5.2x full year 2023 revenues, supported by a strong commercial acceleration in all business segments. In the third quarter, we also signed new major contracts, which not being effective yet, are not included in the backlog as of the end of September 2024, the contract for the 2 FREMM EVO frigates for the Italian Navy, EUR 1.5 billion; and the second contract with Carnival Corporation for 3 mega cruise ships, the largest ever built in Italy. The results of the first 9 months are tangible evidence of the solidity and underlying strategic planning efforts that confirm the vision expressed in our business plan. The solid performance, supportive macro trends in all sectors and clear visibility we have on our business outlook allow us to further improve our year-end guidance for 2024 with revenues expected in excess of EUR 8 billion, leverage ratio between 4.5x and 5x, excluding the positive effect of the capital increase and EBITDA margin confirmed at around 6%. Moving to Page 8. Our commercial pipeline in the first 9 months remained strong, underscoring our solid market positioning. Our portfolio benefited substantially from the acquisition of new orders, consolidating Fincantieri's leading position in novel technological advancements and its expansive global reach across all business segments. Let me share with you a few of the most relevant achievements for each business segment. In cruise, Norwegian Cruise Line announced the forthcoming construction of 6 next-generation vessels scheduled for delivery between 2026 and 2031. These ships represent the pinnacle of technological progress and underscore the company's unwavering commitment to environmental sustainability. Additionally, an agreement has been finalized with Carnival for the construction of 3 LNG mega cruise ships, which will be the largest ships ever built by an Italian shipyard. In the Naval business, Orizzonte Sistemi Navali has signed a contract with OCCAR for the construction of 2 new FREMM EVO frigates. These vessels will represent the latest in the naval military technology and performance, leveraging significant technological advancements from recent programs under the Defense Act and the mid-life upgrade project for the Horizon class destroyers. The Italian Navy will receive 2 new FREMM frigates equipped with cutting-edge technology, advanced system, anti-drone capabilities and operational management of unmanned systems across 3 dimensions: surface, sea and subsurface, ensuring superior operational performance. Lastly, in the offshore sector, Fincantieri's subsidiary, VAR, was awarded the contract for the second hybrid-powered ocean energy construction vessels for Island Offshore. The new unit will be tailored to support a wide range of subsea operations, including inspections, maintenance and repair, pipe laying, subsea infrastructure construction, installation of diving support. Let's move to Page 6 for a detailed review of our order book. As you can see, in the first 9 months of 2024, we delivered 12 units, and we have a full slate of deliveries scheduled for the medium to long term up to 2032, offering a clear visibility on our top line for the years to come. Continued work to increase the depth of the backlog with orders for the Italian Navy, Island Offshore and Carnival will extend this visibility to 2033 and beyond. As of September 2024, Cruise accounted for 26 vessels in portfolio, defense for 34 units and offshore for 35 vessels for a total of 95 ships in backlog, increasing by 10 units compared to the end of 2023. Overall, the commercial performance was strong in all segments with further significant opportunities coming from the underwater domain, as I will discuss in further detail later on in the presentation. Now I will hand the call over to Giuseppe, who will discuss our financial results in more details.

Thank you, Pierroberto. I move now quickly on Page 11 for some more color on the order intake, as we said, doubled versus the first 9 months of 2023 with a book-to-bill at 1.5x of revenues, EUR 8.5 billion, 7 of which coming from shipbuilding with the big project for NCL, the new frigates for the U.S. Navy, the submarine for the Italian Navy, and the offshore vessels. Also, offshore and specialized vessel drives the growth at EUR 1.1 billion. And as we will see later, this growth in ordering offshore pushes revenues further up. Equipment Systems and Services closed at EUR 0.8 billion of revenues, 50% coming from the infrastructure business and with a substantial contribution from the mechatronics business. On Page 12, the backlog, record total backlog at EUR 40.1 billion, 5.2x 2023 revenues we still keep record levels in the same record levels we had in the first half of 2024. And of course, this is supported by a strong commercial acceleration in all business segments. Backlog in fact, increased at EUR 26.4 billion and a soft of almost EUR 14 billion. We delivered 12 units in the first 9 months from 8 different shipyards, 3 in the cruise business, 3 in the defense business and 6 offshore units. On Page 13, revenues that stood at almost EUR 5.6 billion, increasing 3.7% year-on-year and of course, in line with our growth expectations. Strong performance coming from the Offshore and the Equipment Systems and Infrastructure segments, whilst shipbuilding revenues were marginally down, although this is consistent with our production and delivery schedule. In this segment, notably, we expect an acceleration in Q4 with the contract for 2 PPA units to the Indonesian Ministry of Defense, which is expected to become effective. But as a matter of fact, the client is fulfilling progressively all the conditions precedent that are necessary to claim this contract effective. And let me say that what's left is only clerical or bureaucratic condition precedents. 70% of the group revenues come from shipbuilding, whilst offshore and specialized vessels account for 15% with a growth of almost 30% year-on-year. And then this is driven by the growing demand in the market, particularly for offshore wind support equipment. ESS, Equipment Systems and Infrastructure represented 17.1% of total revenues with an increase of almost 32% year-over-year, thanks to the strong performance across all the clusters. The mechatronics cluster also includes factors in the consolidation of Remazel that contributed with EUR 67 million to the revenues of the period. On Page 14, EBITDA, up 19% year-over-year, EUR 328 million with an EBITDA margin up 0.8% at 5.9%, thanks to the performance of Offshore and Equipment Systems and Services, but also shipbuilding has improved by 0.3% with an EBITDA of EUR 257 million that is roughly in line with 2023, but an EBITDA margin of 6.2%. And this is thanks to the impact of the operational efficiency programs that we deployed and implemented throughout the year, consistently with our business plan. EUR 45 million, the EBITDA of Offshore increased by 47.1%. Of course, this is in line with growth expectations that we envisaged in the business plan, and it is really sustained and driven by the market, by the other acquisition, but also by the strategic initiatives for operational efficiency that we implemented as well in this sense. In the Equipment Systems and Infrastructure business, EBITDA increased threefold compared to same period last year, reaching EUR 63 million. and a margin of 6.1%. That is more than double of the 2.7% recorded in September 2023. This improvement is mainly, of course, reflects the turnaround that we successfully performed in the infrastructure cluster that closed the first 9 months of 2024 with an EBITDA of EUR 23 million, whilst last year, it was negative by EUR 4 million. And this is a result of the derisking initiatives that we have carried out in the past 2 years, I would say. The acquisition of Remazel, of course, was accretive to the EBITDA of the mechatronics cluster for EUR 12 million. On Page 15, net financial position and capital structure. So net working capital in the first 9 months of 2024 was negative at EUR 198 million, slightly up compared to the negative EUR 118 million of December 2023, and this is mainly due to the progress in the cruise construction contracts and deliveries. Here, I have to say that we expect the delivery of 3 large, very large cruise vessels in the first 6 months of next year. So, this is a time in which, let me say, the cruise segment requires net working capital. But notwithstanding that, net financial position is negative at EUR 2 billion, excluding the effect of the capital device issue of this summer, we stand at EUR 2.4 billion. So, I would say that we are stable and this is a remarkable result considering the current production pipeline in the cruise business. Of course, the net debt is still affected by the residual of the strategy to support shipowners during the COVID-19 pandemic outbreak. We guide for a leverage ratio at the end of 2024, as we said, between 4.5 and 5x EBITDA, and this is 3.7x, 4.2x, including the proceeds of the capital increase. Back to Pierroberto for the market trends and concluding remarks.

Thank you, Giuseppe. On Page 17, I would like to share with you certain key market trends we are seeing. The cruise sector continues to show significant growth dynamics. As of end September 2024, the cruise ships order book stood at 49 ships, of which 42 with alternative propulsion, most of them dual fuel LNG. The forecast for the number of cruise passengers in 2027 is estimated to exceed 39 million, up from 2023 figures with a CAGR of 5.4% until 2030. This trend supported by introduction of the new green technologies accelerates the renewal of fleets. In this growth context, Fincantieri confirms its leadership with a market share of over 40%. As for the defense sector, geopolitical tensions are the rising awareness of the need to defend critical underwater infrastructure. This continues to drive increasing demand for new vessels. The growing importance of this domain offers substantial industrial and economic opportunities, in particular, in the subsea domain. As I will explain in the next slide, we are working on a number of projects and leveraging on a number of funding opportunities. In addition to that, the global defense spending is expected to further accelerate in the upcoming years with the 2027 forecast revised upwards to $2.5 trillion. Finally, the offshore market continues to display a high volume of new orders for SOVs, CSOVs units. As of end September, the CSOV and the SOV order book amounted to 60 vessels with Fincantieri accounting for approximately 1/3 of the market, confirming its leadership position. Let's take a closer look at our recent developments in the underwater domain on Slide 18. Fincantieri is, in fact, leveraging national and international funding opportunities to advance key underwater technologies. P&S standards represent a crucial avenue for technological advancement within Italy and Fincantieri is leading multiple consortiums in these projects, which include key industry and academic partners. These initiatives are aligned with Italian National underwater Hub, Polo nazionale della subacquea, P&S and focus on several core areas. Large developing advanced launch and recovery systems, energy harvesting, exploring technologies to optimize energy use, particularly for the underwater vehicles, algorithms for underwater target localization, enhancing decision-making software for mission management, underwater network infrastructure, improving communication and cybersecurity within the underwater environment. These efforts not only contribute to the technological innovation, but also align with the Italian Navy's road map for enhancing underwater capabilities. EDF calls are another critical component of this strategy, enabling Fincantieri to participate in broader European defense initiative. Projects under consideration include secure focused on developing unmanned management systems and mine sweeping capabilities, communication systems, secured and adaptive underwater communication technologies are key areas of interest, particularly for unmanned systems. On the M&A front, the acquisition process of WAS from Leonardo is fully on track, and we expect the shares to be transferred to Fincantieri at the start of 2025. Before opening the floor to your questions, let me wrap up our presentation with our key takeaways. We continue to deliver on the business plan with strong top line visibility and margins growth, thanks to our unique positioning and clear strategic initiatives that enable us to reap the benefits from favorable market dynamics in all business segments. We have a strong commercial pipeline market by a further acceleration also, thanks to our focus on the green transition and on the digitalization of the shipbuilding business. The execution of our strategy is delivering ahead of our expectations. We are increasing margins in our Shipbuilding and Offshore segments, thanks to our operational excellence initiatives. We have turned around the performance of our Equipment System and Infrastructure segment by implementing our derisking and partnering strategy and selective focus on projects aligned with our expertise in infrastructure. And we are successfully implementing the group strategy in the underwater domain as demonstrated by the value accretion delivered by Remazel. The acquisition of WAS, which is on track to be completed at the beginning of 2025, along with the other commercial agreements signed over the last months in the underwater and naval defense sector place Fincantieri as the leading technological integrator at global level. As I have mentioned recently, we see significant strategic value in promoting the creation of European champions, in particular, in the defense sector. All full focus on growing profitability and cash flow has allowed us to accelerate our deleveraging trajectory well ahead of the business plan targets. Thanks to the results achieved, we have raised our year-end guidance with revenues expected in excess of EUR 8 billion, a leverage ratio between 4.5 and 5x, excluding the positive effect of the capital increase and EBITDA margin at around 6%. We are now open to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Alessandro Pozzi of Mediobanca.

Two for me. The first one is on the macro, let's say, outlook for defense. We've seen the outcome of U.S. elections. And I think as we go into 2025 and beyond, geopolitical risk is here to stay quite elevated as well. And I was wondering how do you see your commercial pipeline or opportunities evolving, say, in the next few years has there been an acceleration compared to what you saw, for example, just 12 months ago? That's the first question. The second question is everyone now is talking about consolidations across Europe. And you've been quite open about the potential opportunities that you could have or synergies with the ThyssenKrupp Marine. And we know that the sale of ThyssenKrupp has now sold to the private equity. I was wondering what do you think are the chances that you could do an agreement, you could do something with the German government potentially taking over those shipyards?

Thank you for your question. On the macro-outlook for defense after U.S.A. election, and again, with respect to our appreciation of the geopolitical risk associated, what I would say is that we continue to experience an increasing demand for naval capacity associated with the creation of an equivalent industrial capacity. So, all in all, let me make it very simple. The more the geopolitical quadrants become overrated, the more the reaction is to increase our capacity and in general, defense spending. So, it's a matter of fact. And the impact of U.S. elections, let me say, are not impacting this perception of the future because I would say whatever is the posture of the new president, nevertheless, the situation is overrated and nevertheless, each, I would say, geopolitical block will continue in the process of strengthening its defense capacity and associated industrial capacity. So, the comparison vis-a-vis 12 months ago is a great confirmation of our expectation that this is the era of defense. This is the era of geopolitics. Fincantieri enjoys a very well-proven set of products, set of solutions. And in coordination with our geopolitical platforms, we can be helpful to those countries that wants to strengthen their defense capacity. Second question about consolidation across Europe. I believe that it's all about fundamentals. And fundamentals in Europe means to work in the direction of defragmentation, which is a prerequisite for consolidation. What do I mean by defragmentation? Europe, it's a country having a fraction of the defense budget of U.S. and at the same time, a multiple in terms of number of platforms. So, in a moment in which Europe and each European country will have to spend more, my comment is that we should spend better. And to spend better, we need to go for this defragmentation, i.e., to share more platforms. And sharing novel platforms is probably the most intuitive thing to do, relatively easy to do. Because, again, a ship is a ship, engine rooms are engine rooms. So, you can always differentiate yourself with the electronics, you can always differentiate yourself with whatever, with the armament system, with the digital systems, with the electronic warfare. But again, a platform is a platform. So that's why we are advocating so much for the fragmentation. Specifically, on ThyssenKrupp Marine system, we made no secret that we are and we will be available to any form of collaboration, also enhancing and fostering the current level of collaboration, which are commercial alliance lasting since 25 years. So, we know each other. We have a high respect of the product, of the management, of the infrastructure. We are available for evaluating along the lines, along the strategic lines of relevant German constituencies and institutions in order to be instrumental to the valorization of that asset in any possible forms that will be adequate and appropriate for the national interest of Germany and the national interest of Europe. So, it's not up to us to understand, which is the kind of enhanced collaboration. What is up to us is to show our readiness, our willingness at industrial level and at institutional level.

Just maybe last one on Indonesia. What is the visibility that you have on the or the signing of the final, let's say, contract in Indonesia for the 2 PPAs?

The contract is signed already, so was signed, I would say, several weeks ago. We had to go for a number of steps in order for the contract to be effective. The most important conditions for effectiveness are already verified and fulfilled. So, what is missing is certain additional fulfillments. But again, the contract is there and the essential conditions are confirmed and verified. So we are, I would say, almost 100% sure, and this is a way to tell you that the revenues will be achieved, the revenues for the remaining part of the year will embed this kind of facts as well as all the financial associated means will be booked accordingly.

The next question is from Monica Bosio of Intesa Sanpaolo.

I have 3. The first one is in the Naval segment. On top of the Indonesian contract, which of the opportunities on the export markets do you consider most interesting and most likely to be awarded when entering 2025? And am I right assuming that in the current backlog, the Naval accounts roughly EUR 4 billion, this is my first question. The second one is on the cruise business. You have been very successful in stabilizing the cruise business. Just a confirmation, can you confirm that starting from the next year, the cruise business will enter auto financing cycle? And maybe if you can give us a rough indication, if you can, on the average working capital absorption from cruises from now on? And the very last question is on the savings plan. According to the business plan, you have EUR 300 million cost reduction target across the 5-year plan. Can you quantify the expected savings this year and give us a rough indication of potential additional savings on top of this one? Because it seems to me that you are running ahead the target in terms of cost reduction? Maybe I'm wrong.

Thank you for your question. Which are the countries in which are the markets in which we are concentrated and positive on. We gave well in advance which were the regions of interest of Fincantieri, and we are consistently addressing those markets. So, it's Southeast Asia and Middle East. Southeast Asia, we are achieving more and more, the expected targets in Indonesia, which, again, it's emblematic of that specific region because it's a country of 250 million Muslims living on 17,000 islands in front of China. But it is the same for Malaysia. It is the same for Thailand. It is the same for Vietnam. It is the same for Philippines. So, Southeast Asia is definitely an overheated kind of quadrant in which we are, I would say, cultivating and nurturing and feeding our commercial pipeline with increasing interest and success. Middle East, we are already in Egypt. We are already in Qatar. We are already in Abu Dhabi. We are opening in Saudi. But we are present in Kuwait. So, our presence in the region is there to stay, and our presence in the region is to pursue the several different programs that are being put forward by the relevant navies. Qatar, it's a big credential. It's a big reference for us because we delivered impeccably 6 out of the 7 ships. The seventh ship will be delivered in the next weeks. And it's a big credential for the area. So, you know Middle East, it's a cluster, it's a block. and your references in one key country, it's a very good, I would say, precedent for future business. And we are very focused in Saudi. Saudi is expected to become the fourth largest defense spender in the world. Italy and Saudi are getting along each other more and more at G2G level, at government-to-government level. We are part of that movement. We opened our office there. We opened our company there. There are several programs expected to go, including, for example, program for frigates, which is our specialty, which are large ships. And when you build frigates, it means a billionaire, a multibillionaire kind of opportunity. As you know, we are also in Abu Dhabi. Abu Dhabi, it's another country having great ambitions and prerogatives for becoming local power and an international power on top of being a kind of gate to go to sub-Saharan Africa with specific financial instruments at service of new navies and the service of sub-Saharan African governments and countries. So, we are very active there. We have just announced a partnership also for the small submarines, which is something, again, very interesting in either Southeast Asia and Middle East for the characteristics, for the shallow waters, for all the kind of typical geographical needs and missions. So, if you want to understand, those are the markets in which we are very focused. And I would say that Middle East is for us, the place in which we could have very good news during 2025.

And am I right assuming that in the soft backlog, the naval can count roughly EUR 4 billion in the soft backlog my estimate.

Monica, yes, it's a fair estimate, of the share of the defense business also.

But just for you to have some qualitative information on top of the export, which is a market on which we are very focused, you should consider our U.S. company, our U.S. footprint, along with the continuation of the long-term investment program of Italian Navy. As you may have appreciated, we secured the submarine. We started a new series of ships that are called PPX, which are a kind of corvettes. We have signed and it is 100% secured a contract for 2 additional frigates. And then there is the big series of ship that is the destroyer. The destroyer is a big one. It's very complicated. It's fully digitalized, fully armed with drones. And on top of it, there is the continuation of the PPA program, which means not only the finalization of the existing PPAs, but also the construction of 2 additional PPAs in substitution to the PPA that we delivered and we are going to deliver to Indonesia. So also, the "domestic engine and origination engine†is going very well. We are very satisfied with the relationship with our Navy, which is one of the most modern in the world. On the beginning of December, we will deliver the aircraft carrier, the biggest ever built. The biggest nonnuclear military ship ever built on earth, and we are very proud of that. It will be another natural instrument of marketing for our expertise in this very key moment on defense.

The next question is from Gabriele Gambarova of…

Sorry, there was a further question coming from Monica. Monica, I believe you had 2 more questions on the net working capital absorption for 2025 coming from the cruise and on the cost reductions. As we said, we expect, of course, the cruise business has reached, so to say, steady state in terms of where we want to be in terms of revenues. And therefore, steady state in terms of revenues means also steady state in terms of net working capital. So, we don't expect further requirements coming from the cruise business in 2025. As a matter of fact, we expect to lower the net working capital absorption coming from the cruise business. But in the business plan when we did it, this was the peak time, so to say, in terms of net working capital. I mentioned before, 3 large cruise vessels being delivered in the first 6 months of next year that, of course, are requiring. But this information makes the levels of the results that we reached in terms of deleveraging, let me say, even more remarkable considering the current situation of the production process in the cruise segment. On the cost reductions, we are fully on track with what we expected in the business plan.

The next question is from Gabriele Gambarova of Banca Akros.

The first one is on offshore. Growth was extraordinary, especially in Q3. So, I guess you will, let's say, hit the targets you set for 2025 already with 1 year in advance. I was wondering if you can, let's say, give me some more color on this business. Are you working at full capacity, you have constraints or you can grow further and where margins may go maybe in 2025? This is the first question. And the second one is on the net debt guidance. Basically, you improved it by EUR 250 million more or less. I was wondering if you are factoring, let's say, the financial impact of the Indonesian contract in full or there is some more upside left.

I will answer on the first, and then I'll leave the ground to Giuseppe for the second. On the first, offshore, we were anticipating since the issuance of the business plan, our expectation for the offshore. So, the offshore market is growing. Our business model is remarkably effective because we associate European Norwegian engineering with the [ all ] fabrication, low-cost model of Romania and Vietnam. So, the combination of the 2 is truly accretive in front of the client. What is happening now, it is that on top of this market kicking in, on top of the cable layer market kicking in, which is an adjacent market, having to do with the request of electrification consequent to the creation of wind farms offshore. So, on top of these 2 dynamics, there is a third dynamic, which is the win back, which is the renaissance of oil and gas offshore, which is the history, which is the DNA of Vard. So that's the additional engine of the growth. And we are very pleased. We are very happy with what is happening. Constraints, yes, shipbuilding is a business of given capacity is not unlimited. We have been working on Vietnam to enlarge our throughput capacity over there. So, I was physically in Vũng Tàu 2 weeks ago. So, this expansion of capacity, which is a big one, which is more than doubling the capacity of the shipyard is there. On top of it, we have Romania. We have 2 large shipyards in Romania in Tulcea and Brăila, where we have massive capacity. In particular, the Tulcea shipyard is employing thousands of people and has a capacity which is hybrid. It’s a capacity that we can allocate to the cruise or to the offshore. So let me say, we are working relentlessly at that level in order to identify the best trade-off between volumes, margins and cash flow in order to take full advantage of this very fortunate period. On the second question, the rest, I leave the floor to Giuseppe.

On the financial impact of the Indonesia project, of course, it is factored in the upgraded guidance that we gave for the year. So, we stick to that for the moment. Surprises are surprises. Surprises are not factored in the guidance. That's why there are surprises.

If I may, just a follow-up on naval. I've read that Norway is interested in buying, I think, 5 new frigates. I don't know if you have any idea of when this process will start, what might be the timing for a decision? Any color on this would be appreciated.

Well, you touched base on another key opportunity I was mentioning before, as I was not mentioning Europe in general. Norway is a very well-known opportunity. The process is expected to start in the next months. So, it's not around the corner, but it's a very big one. So, the preparation of the process was done, meaning by preparation, the kind of list of possible supplier. Let me say we can participate with several hats because we can participate with our FREMM EVO project, which is the evolution of our traditional frigate, which is fully digitalized, fully modularized. It's a totally renewed version. And we can participate from U.S. with our constellation class because Norway is inviting also U.S. And U.S. means our constellation class for the U.S. Navy. So let me say we are very well positioned for that opportunity. Then there are all the possible combinations of the 2 because we can even propose to be helpful for the constellation class through our Italian shipyards, being ourselves well trusted by the U.S. systems. So, it's an opportunity we are targeting. It's a very large program. Norway, in general, is putting forward a big reinforcement plan for the Navy for intuitive reasons because they live basically in front of Russia, and they are worried about Russia since centuries. And they have all the means to invest in this reinforcement plan of the Norwegian Navy, having the Norwegian Navy a very strong tradition and being the Norwegian system, very knowledgeable in terms of naval assets. Let me add that all in all, we have a third key prerogative in that opportunity, which is our geographical presence in Norway. So, among the multiple options, we can also offer the involvement of our Norwegian shipyards, which can assure local content, possible positive impact on local GDP, occupation, technological advancements. So, you picked up a case in which is very evident, how strong and how credible is our international commercial value proposition.

That was the final question. A special thanks to Fincantieri's management and to all of the participants that joined the call today. The Investor Relations team is available for any follow-ups or additional questions you may have. You may disconnect your devices.

Thank you very much. Thank you for attending.