Fnac Darty SA (FNAC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, everyone, and I'm delighted to be here with you to share our results of -- our revenues with you for 2023. For this presentation, I shall first give you an overview of our activities and detail some of the more strategic initiatives that we undertook in 2023 concerning the main success factors of our road map. And then Jean-Brieuc here, our CFO, will give you a summary of our revenues. Then I'll come back, and I will share the conclusions for you and be here for your questions. 2023 was an extremely busy year, and I'm very satisfied by our performance. In a macroeconomic rather constrained context, we worked towards meeting our goals for every day our strategic plan, and we were even able to accelerate an in-depth transformation of our digital client and service model. In 2023, we crossed the 1 million subscriber mark at Darty Max. And it just goes to show that we have our commitment towards durable and responsible consumption. We also finalized our projects, which are extremely ambitious for development of our e-commerce activity to further strengthen our unique European position. This collective success was thanks to our employees, who give much proof of their ability to adapt as best as they could to changes in our sector and to expectations of our customers. I am confident that we should continue in our project. And I'm enthusiastic about starting 2024 for several reasons. Indeed 2024 represents 70 years of Fnac existence, 50 years of the Contrat de confiance. And of course, it's the Olympics year and Paralympics in Paris. We'd be here to welcome that event after 100 years, an exceptional event. And we are extremely proud that we are contributing towards its official sponsorship. We will be highlighting all our know-how and expertise to contribute towards the outreach of this movement, and the coming together in festivities in our stores and on our online site. What's better than pictures to illustrate all this? Here's a video. Excellent. So I'd like to start this presentation of 2023 with a focus on our major product markets. Now, you've got in front of you on the left, you've got the growth on -- in value of our market -- and there are 3 major categories of products. You've got home appliances, technical products and editorial products. On the right side, you see the growth in volume. And as you will see that we still haven't absorbed the excess of volumes created in 2020. The -- however, the difference in value and trends are very different. Indeed, as far as our editorial products are concerned, they're displaying good momentum and are essentially driven by sales in gaming and booked sales. On the other hand, home appliances are showing a slight decrease in sales progression. And are not really made up for volumes that still remain down after the COVID period. Technical products are showing a great -- a slight improvement in terms of value, and they are driven by telephony sound and photo that compensate the short drop -- sharp drop in TV and IT equipment. The last 2 segments have always been suffering, and because of the high level of equipment bought during the health crisis and absence of innovation in the market of PC. Since the market, since the increase in activity during the covered period, we never go back to the same levels. And these changes have really impacted the retail sector and which is changing a lot. And now we see that there is a market concentrating around specialists. Besides growth in e-commerce is extremely expected, and it will have a direct impact on pure players. In this complex environment, we have once again, shown our resilience, thanks to the strategy that we've been implementing for 3 years now in our everyday plan. To begin with, given the drop in volumes, we've maintained revenues and managed to maintain our gross margin. Our omnichannel strategy has a plus point, the negative impact of mixed product and the growth of gaming. Telephony has been made -- has had a positive impact on mixed channel with an increasing business in stores and growth of services. So we shall have to remain on our tools to keep inflation down, interest rates down and be extremely flexible. As Jean-Brieuc says, we have also managed to reduce the increase in costs by 1.4% in 2023. And finally, in view of the slumping household consumption, and the confidence index has never been so low in these last 10 years. We've undertaken initiatives to stimulate growth and show that we can still make money as we did with the takeover of certain parts of media market in Portugal, which has strengthened our position since the 1st of October 2023. I'd also like to point out that the litigation related to the divestment of Comet has finally come to a close. In effect, on the 12th of February last year, the Supreme Court of London turned down the appeal of the liquidator of the Comet Group Limited, contesting the judgment made by the Court of Appeal in London in October 23 in favor of Darty. Fnac Darty should receive the balance of the sum initially paid in 2022, and we feel that we should be seeing a total refunding of costs and -- legal costs, interest, et cetera, which will give us EUR 40 million extra of positive cash flow in the first quarter of 2024. We are delighted that we finally put the foot stock to this entire incident, which started in 2012. And let's get back to the fundamentals of our everyday strategic plan, which is based on the reason why we do this business. Committed towards informed choice and sustainable consumption. This is based on 3 pillars. The first one is our omnichannel strategy that offers an optimal customer experience. And thanks to its extremely efficient digital offer and a network of stores of extremely great quality. Secondly, it's also based on diversified products, and that gives special importance to sustainability and repairs. And we have services via subscriptions for technical assistance and after sales. Let me now tell you about it in detail. Omnichannel strategy is adapted to different methods of consumption-focused customers. So you have each time a physical experience and digital experience and a mix of both. So we have a huge network of 1,000 stores which covers all our territories, France, Switzerland and Spain, Portugal, Belgium and Luxembourg. This represents nearly 78% of our total sales backed by our strong digital presence on 14 sites, Internet sites, and our own platform of marketplace. This represents 22% of our sales, 27.5 million visitors come online every month in France for our site, Fnac and Darty. And we are #2 players in so far as e-commerce, the busiest e-commerce is concerned. Best proof of our success is the omnichannel strategy that we've employed, which represents 50% of our total digital sales, and that we see at Click & Collect. The second pillar of our strategy is the diversity of our offer, which represents 47% in technical products of our total revenues and 20% in home appliances. Editorial products, 18%, and other services, which are now up to 15%. This diversity gives us greater resilience and less vulnerability to sometimes volatile changes in various sections. We're leaders and recognized as such in various categories, which gives us an additional advantage. And we are undisputedly #1 in certain editorial products, books and disks and services, ticketing, et cetera, and #1 repairs in France. Our third pillar and strategy is this offer of services that we provide via subscription, and which meets a strong expectation. A keen expectation of our customers, and enable us to generate a recurrent revenue stream. In 2023, we crossed the mark of 20 million subscribers for Darty Max. And actually, we had 1,125,000 subscribers end of 2023. We are aiming at EUR 2 million by 2025. So this method of subscription is much expected by our customers, and we have covered nearly 12 million products by Darty Max in just a single year. Our development of this service model through subscription is accompanied by Fnac Digital for IT use, and which is now part and parcel of our customers daily life. And then you've got Maisons Relax with our partner, who serve all home repairs. And that commits our customers, that means that they have an informed choice and sustainable consumption in all categories and products. Editorial, technical, and also appliances. This shows that the group is very strongly involved in culture. We have the Gonco award for high school students that we created in '88, and we've been organizing it for 35 years. The water or also given for reference literally, which have become a reference for literary award and are recommended on the reading list. And they're the most sold in France. We also accompanied with the Flat Novels award, and it's the first price for the season, the literary season, it's been like that since the last 20 years in all of Fnac bookshops and Fnac members, as well as comic book price with France Ante. The giving of this award has been a real boost for our sales, and we've been riding the wave of this popularity in this-- in the comic book sector, particularly. Fnac Darty is also committed towards technology, since '72 Fnac developed its own Fnac lab for testing products completely independently and guiding its consumers as of its own test protocols. This was the only time we had this concept in the world, and we tested 531 products in 2023. And now this is part of Fnac Vie Digitale, a service that's available on subscription. Our customers can be guided by expert up in lab of Fnac, and that for the various digital users every day. Since 2021, all our recommendations in cultural technological fees are all available on our site called Leclerc, which is recording excellent increase in traffic of nearly 1 million hits per month, very unique in 2023. And finally, we are committed towards extending the life and duration of our products, and are promoting sustainable behavior. So we are doing this through Darty Max repairs, and we have a label called Schwaeble, which is the present in our stores to guide our customers towards reliable products in all categories according to our after-sales barometer at Fnac Darty, is now best treated brand for the 6 consecutive years in terms of repairability, reliability and the impact on the environment. Besides, we talk about enlighten delivery and especially we commit -- we encourage our customers to repair rather than replace -- so we've also started continuing the hiring and acceleration of training for new technicians, more than 300 in 2023 to meet this growing need for repairs. So second light is another business that we have, and that is to meet our environmental ambitions in terms of circular economy. In 2023, the resale values under the name brand, Fnac 2nde Vie and Darty 2nde Vie increased by 30% and reached EUR 120 million. At Fnac Darty, second life is not just a second choice products, our second life products provide the same guarantee of quality and the same service conditions of delivery as do on new products. So they get a 2-year guarantee and people who are subscribing to Darty Max are eligible to it. This second life offer today is expanding greatly and is dovetailing perfectly with the offer for new products, And provided -- offered at lower prices, it gives you a perfect -- a perfect -- it gives you very competitive rates. And it's easily found in all our shares along with the new products. What's more being the first collector in France, so we are perfectly positioned for a natural stream of quality products of eligible electro -- of eligible home appliances for a second life. Given this demand, we have implemented several recycling services. And so now on this slide, you see all the various strategic initiatives that we've undertaken with our very efficient partnerships, and that will boost our marketplace. To begin with, we have brought in-house the management of our marketplace, and we have merged the back office of Fnac and Darty. And today, we've got 3,600 partners -- the sales partners with 35 million offers in terms of activity. This will improve our position as leaders, as online sales in categories. We've also signed up a collaboration with Rakuten France in September '23 to increase our presence online. And so we'll have an outreach to 15 million new users per month. We want to go even further with CEVA Logistics, a subsidiary of CMA CGM, we have brought or united our forces to create even of future major European logistics e-commerce player, and of the SaaS marketplace. This company, it means to simplify the daily life of our salespeople by proposing a turnkey marketplace. We have obtained the required clearances since early January, and operations should kick off in the start of -- in the first half of 2024. We are aiming at EUR 200 million of revenue, and an operational margin in double digits in the next 5 years. Talking of innovation, let's just go on to another activity in the group, which is really going up. Retaillink is our advertising department. It's omnichannel, 100% Darty, and which deploys offers that enables brands to get close to their own community of users to meet their aims and objectives, and publicity and commitment in sales. Since '21, we launched a 1,600 campaigns in our business, and that represents nearly EUR 9 million of revenue in 2023. Between 2019 and 2023, sales and operational margin increased by plus 40%, just showing our leadership in this field and taking advantage of our omnichannel position. On the right, you have a few illustrations of what we can do for our customers on these communicative screens, either in digital or in stores. In 2023, we increased our digital transformation, and thanks to partnerships that we have developed over the last few years, and we have undertaken the modernization, a major modernization of our data structure in 2021 with our partnership with Google to include REIT search tools like Google Cloud Retail. These tools include options now for extended analytics for AI and learning. There are different case studies going on with AI that we are testing today. In fact, some of our developers are using these tools like co-pilot, and that enables us to generate qualitative content for marketplace and accelerate the moderation of content to gain in efficiency during after sales operations. We have -- our ambition now actually is to give further importance to being responsible and protective, and experiment that we are using to implement with generative AI with our employees and to create value and service. Now, we have what I wish to talk to you about is our social and societal responsibility as a firm and a company, which is a regular pillar of our group strategy. Our ESG policy, I might remind you, based on 5 pillars. Sustainable consumption, climate conservation, development of human capital, ethical business, and commitment in our various markets. And we are determined to provide results. On the right, you can see that we have reached our aim in our everyday plant to reduce our direct emissions by 50% by 2030 as opposed to 2019. End of '23, we've already come down to minus 26% compared to 2019. We also fixed another aim in reducing by 15% our electricity consumption in France between now and 2024. This is already a big -- a reality, thanks to the conversion of our entire store network to full LED lighting and also a centralized management of heating and cooling, of HVAC. Concerning human capital, we've accelerated various action plans to develop the diversity of the group -- within the group of various advances that we've made. Concerning women and the role of women, the top 200 managers had 33% in 2023. That's plus 3 points compared to 2022. And finally, we have maintained a score of CDP a minus despite hardening of scoring criteria. In conclusion, in this first part, in 2023, we are confirming our commitment towards our customers and our employees. And proof of this is the increase of 2 points in last quarter in 2023 in the customer satisfaction index. Besides, Fnac and Darty are more than compensated for all that we have done through the eco-responsible actions of their customers, et cetera. And we have also reviewed a new platform for the brand Darty, which will further consolidate our commitment towards sustainability with a larger number. So it's all set to last. And finally, one last point, which is very important. Attractivity, retention, and commitment of our employees are a very determining factor in our company enterprise project. And given the expectations, which are increasingly high of our employees and the lack of skills in certain fields as we have in repairs, we've made an effort in terms of training in 2023, 94% of our employees received training, and more than 230 employees were trained for various different business lines, repair technicians, et cetera. 118 new technicians were also recruited with permanent contracts. We have opened 27 apprenticeships also. And as you know, we have -- we are working actively with all our employees, and we hope to -- we thank them here for their commitment for working with us together on a daily basis and making all such success. Over to you, Jean-Brieuc.

Thank you, Enrique. Hello, everyone. I'd like to take a closer look at the group's operating performance by distribution channel category before concluding with our financial performance. Let's first look at sales. Slide 20. As Enrique has already commented, the group ended the year with sales of BRL 7.9 billion, down just 0.9% on a reported basis and 1.1% on a like-for-like basis. This performance comes against the backdrop of high inflation, which is weighing on purchasing power. Consumers are taking a wait and see attitude postponing purchases when they are not essential. And those conditions, the group has once again demonstrated its ability to outperform the market. At this stage, the ticketing businesses is still consolidated despite the purchasing -- purchase option exercised by CTS event team in August. Procedures for obtaining antitrust clearance is it underway and its preliminary phase. The timetable for completion of this transaction remains uncertain. Looking at each distribution channel. Sales this year had been driven by points-of-sale, reflecting a renewed willingness on the part of customers to return to shops. Our strategy of diversifying channels and products is, therefore, paying off. The group's online sales are returning to normal. This return to normality is a market trend, as shown by Fnac's latest report on e-commerce in '23. One of the Fnac strengths is the weight of omnichannel sales remaining high at 50% of online sales up 1.6 points. This is further evidence of the long-term relevance of the omnichannel model. Turning now to performance by category. The trends are similar across all the zones covered. Any toil products are growing, driven by strong book sales and gaming, posting record sales with the return to stock of Sony's latest generation console and the launch of a number of games that are eagerly awaited by the package. Services continue to grow in all regions, driven in particular by the continued development of Darty Max. As Enrique said, we passed the 1 million subscriber map in the second half year and had 1,125,000 subscribers at the end of December, in line with our road map to reach 2 million subscribers by 25%. Technical products were down, again, due to the lower sales of hardware, particularly computers, which had benefited from the strong need for equipment, for teleworking and learning at home during the house crisis. Lastly, sales volumes of household electrical appliances fell sharply, both in large and small appliances. Let's look at the operating performance of each of our regions, starting with France and Switzerland. Sales in this region are by 1.1% on a like-for-like basis. According to report published end of January, Fnac/Darty continues to outperform the French market. On the basis of the group's product mix, the market was down 4.3%. Finally, even if it's not really significant at the group level, Nature & Découvertes reported a sharp fall in sales compared with last year, particularly in the fourth quarter as a result of the decline in household purchasing power and the shift away from the discretionary products. Let's move on to the Iberian Peninsula. Sales were down on a like-for-like basis with constructing effects. Portugal reported growth, while Spain posted a sharp fall, reflecting the strong pressure on consumer purchasing power and the continued safe competitive environment. I would also remind you that we completed the acquisition of 100% of MediaMarkt Portugal at the end of September. The contribution to sales of this entity for the last quarter alone was EUR 39 million. Finally, let's finish with the Belgium, Luxembourg zone. This is the only region showing positive momentum with like-for-like growth of 2% over the years. Slide 21, you'll see the details of the development of gross margins in line with water. We said Fnac Darty succeeded in maintaining subsided in maintaining its gross margin. Thanks to its positioning, focusing on premium products, making it easier to pass on price rises to customers, but also by its decision to maintain promotional activity in line with levels seen in '22. And lastly, thanks to growth in the service business, and in particular, the continued acquisition of the Darty Max subscribers. Excluding the dilutive effect of the franchise, minus 10 basis points in '23, the group's gross margin remained stable at 30.3%. Operating costs reached EUR 2.2 million in 2023, up only 1.4% on 2022 compared with inflation in France of 4%. The group demonstrates the operational agility while keeping a tight rein on costs. Performance plans have enabled us to improve productivity. In addition, an investment plan to reduce our energy consumption has borne fruit, sharply limiting the impact of rising energy costs. In 2013, the increase in cost will come mainly from the impact of higher energy costs, EUR 20 million and the balance coming from HR cost reason compared with 2022. The average salary increase in 2023 has been higher than in the previous years to take into account a higher level of inflation. Let's turn to the other income statement items on Slide 22. The operating -- current operating profit. ROC, EUR 171 million, in line with expectations. The operating margin came in at 2.3% as a result of gross margin maintained with a slight decrease in volumes, rising energy costs, and a very limited increase in operating costs, almost offset by the efforts of the performance plans implemented within the group, as we've just seen. The noncurrent items totaled EUR 131 million compared with EUR 27 million in '22. This amount is mainly due to EUR 106 million of exceptional expenses, including the provision for the dispute with ADLC, EUR 85 million, and a brand impairment, EUR 20 million. As well as other nonrecurring items of EUR 25 million. Finance costs amounted to EUR 79 million. The cost of net financial debt was stable. The increase of EUR 33 million was due to the increase in the IFRS 16 charges, plus EUR 35 million due to the rise in interest rates on the restatement of rents, and other nonrecurring financial expenses by EUR 19 million, mainly relating to the impairment and disposal of the group's stake in the -- Daphne Purple fund. As a reminder, the group invested around EUR 6 million in the Daphne Purple investment funds. The end of 2022, this investment had been revalued annually at fair value. In the first half of 2023, we decided to sell our stake. Since its inception, the investment in this one has generated a cumulative capital gain of EUR 10.4 million. The tax charge came to EUR 31 million. So lower than last year, in line with the fall of -- in the group's results. The net profiting before exceptionals, group share adjusted for the EUR 106 million of exceptional noncurrent items. Let to say, ADLC provision and brand impairment will be EUR 31 million in 2023. After taking into account net income from discontinued operations, including the favorable ruling on the comet mitigation, consolidated net income group share will be EUR 50 million in 2023. Slide 23. Let's look at the analysis of free cash flow at the end of December. Free cash flow from operations, excluding IFRS 16 will be EUR 180 million in 2023. This brings us back to a normative level, fully in line with our target of EUR 500 million cumulative EUR million 2021, 2024. The working capital requirement has returned to normal levels following the sharp margin space observed in '22. Inventory levels are under control and has over the year, the inventory turnover rate remained at the level usually seen in the previous years. Operating investments amount to EUR 115 million, down compared with EUR 22 million in line with group's expectations. After taking into account a number of other items, in particular, the repayment routing to the Victorian appeal in the COMET litigation, EUR 96 million. This is the amount we cashed in December, and the acquisition of MediaMarkt to import a EUR 15 million, the group generated positive net cash flow of EUR 204 million. This will enable the group to return to a net cash position of EUR 198 million at the 31st December 2023 compared with a net debt position of minus EUR 5 million at end of December. A few words about our financial structure on Slide 24. At the end of 2023, the group has had shareholders' equity of more than EUR 1.4 billion in cash and cash equivalents of EUR 1.1 billion. In 2023, Fnac Darty successfully renegotiated the options to extend its credit lines, the RCF, whose maturity has been extended to '29 with an option to extend it to 2030. And the DTL whose maturity has been extended to '26 with an option to extend it to 27. I would remind you that the RCF is worth EUR 100 million and has not been drawn down. The DTL delayed drawn-term loan is an entrant credit line of EUR 300 million. The group secured its refinancing last year setting -- by setting up this facility which can be drawn down on a single location and solely to repay the bond maturing in '24. The liquidity position of the group is very solid, EUR 1.7 billion. This gives us full confidence in our ability to make opportunistic decisions about the strategy, allocation of our resources, whether for external growth, debt reduction or return to shareholders. We will nevertheless continue to be close attention to our leverage ratio. This stands at 1.8x EBITDA after the IFRS 16 at 31st of December 23 compared with twice, 2.0 last year. Now a few words about the return to shareholders. In '23, the group amended a share buyback program for the purposes of performance share plans. The authorized amount of EUR 20 million has not been reached. At the end of January, the group plans to reach out the program for February 24 -- 23rd of February to reach the authorized amount, i.e., to buy back around EUR 4.5 million. Finally, Fnac Darty will propose to the next General Meeting of Shareholders scheduled for the 29th of May 2024. The payment of a dividend of EUR 0.45 per share. This represents a payout ratio of 39%, calculated on an adjusted net profit from continuing operations, which is in line with previous years, and with the policy of return to shareholders set out in the everyday strategic plan. The detection date is set for the 3rd of July, and the payment date of 5th of July. I would like to hand over to Enrique to conclude this presentation with some thoughts on the future.

Thank you, Jean-Brieuc. Brilliant for us, especially since the Olympics, and that is going to be the 70th birthday of Fnac, last 50 years of our contract. So the coincidence of these 3 major events have made a major year 2024, very special for our complete company. So we are official supporters for the Olympic games and the Paralympics. So that means we'll be providing 25,000 different parts of big and small electrical appliances for a commitment of 100% re-employment, for all our products, and particularly in the framework of second life. We shall also be ensuring -- after sales during the entire games period. Fnac will be especially set up in the Olympic village to ensure that we can sell to our tourist also, and cultural products through our athletes. Loyal to our DNA, we will also be contributing to the cultural programming of Club France and the Fan zone in France, and celebrating French awards, which will be duly celebrated with those who received these awards. Our group has also committed towards 2 athletes, Enzo Lefort, the fencer and Élodie Lorandi, the handicap swimmer. We will be celebrating 50 years contract in 2024. Our confidence contract, and we shall do a re-lifting of this contract with the photo of the Fnac. And finally, and in 2024, we expect growth to be helped by the drop-down of inflation, take advantage of buying power and a reduction in the saving rate. The cost of energy will probably also be favorable to us, and we are expecting to see that there will be an increase, however, in wages and rentals. We have certainly seen in the last few months, the few figures published by the French Central Bank. Our market in January has shown a drop of 5%. And in this context, I'm convinced that our strategy is extremely within one and we shall over perform. However, since this is a recovery here, and consumption of households is still very uncertain, particularly when it comes to volumes. In this context, we shall keep trying to surpass our performance in markets, thanks to operational nimbleness and omnichannel manager. Besides, we shall keep a strict control on our costs, and we shall try and maintain sound liquidity in our position, remaining attentive, however, to any kind of market opportunities, and try and reduce our financial leverage to 1.5x by the end of December in order to pursue our strategic initiatives and to simplify our model and to support future growth. So far, our current operational result in 2024 is at least the same as out of 2023. We are confirming our aim to get to a free FCF accumulated of EUR 500 million like in 2021 to 2024, and this would be about EUR 180 million this year. So that brings me to the end of my presentation. I'd like to thank you very much. And of course, we are available for any questions that you might have.

Well, we know what the first question is going to be. Let me read it quickly. Retaillink represents 1% of our group. What could be the ceilings for retail media. Will it keep developing 40% operational margin?

Well, thank you very much for your question. Just to specify, we said that our margin had gone up by that amount, and it was not the detail that we've given you of the margin. We are quite happy with what we've seen. You've seen that we have the unique technical capability in the market. We are the second biggest visited side in France, and we have 1 million square meters. So that's a huge opportunities. We have very good exposure of brands, and all broadcasters, all advertisers are using this very well, and we are really using all the latest technology to improve our positions. And so this is Retail Media, which is doing very well. And I think we shall be there now with the non-manufacturers, to help them. We know our customers, and so we shall use that, we shall cash in on that to improve our position. We are really confident about that. I feel that we are way ahead of all the other markets. Any other questions.

EUR 180 million with working capital flow down. So how are you going to get to that EUR 180 million?

In 2024, we expect that the working capital requirement will also help towards the incident. We are trying to standardize our working capital requirements, and we feel that we shall try and maintain that services also have contributed essentially to the growth of free cash flow. Because of Darty Max and the extension of guarantee, they're also contributing towards the FCF. A big contributor now taxes. Taxes, corporate taxes were very special in 2023. There were 2 effects that we had. On the one hand, you had taxation that came down and structurally we paying less in 2023 compared to 2022. And in cash, we paid too much upfront in 2022. So we shall get some cash back. However, this year will be a little more normal. One last point, which you might take in mind concerning CapEx. We can expect a CapEx in 2023, which will be lower than EUR 170 million compared to 2023. So it's for all these different elements that we have at EUR 180 million of free cash flow that we are confirming with full confidence for 2024.

This is from Alexandra Cassa. 40% doesn't really mean much if you don't have the mass in retailing. You're asking us for details. I wanted to just explain to you about our position and what we know about retailing?

We have illustrated the size and the dimension of all that we know how to do. But we can't share all our secrets with you to do. And I'm sure that no other player on the market in our sector gives so much detail. All I can say is that in Retaillink, apart from all that we are doing today, we are showing improvement. And of course, our margin levels will show that. We will be in line with our top line, and we will have the profitability that we require. This is, of course, minus all the cost of media, external media, et cetera. We find that there's a healthy growth, especially in digital, which is really growing harmoniously, and it is strengthening our position.

Now this is a question from Javier. How do you expect to get to EUR 180 million considering that you don't really...

Well, to answer your question, Javier. We.re not obliged to give a press report when results are lower than guidance or consensus as it so happens. When you look at the analyst consensus, we are at 1 million -- we are at EUR 1 million compared to everyone's estimates just off by EUR 1 million. We didn't have to get that decides. We find that this difference is not important given the guidance that we had provided end of January besides the markets which levers complicated. And to get back to us, the slight difference that we had was focused on 2 areas, in particular, Nature & Découvertes in Spain who didn't have such a good performance, not as good as we expected. And so there's a slight difference compared to the initial guidance. As far as the rest of the business is concerned, the business behaved fairly well .

OpEx management and advertising, a drop of EUR 5 million, whereas inflation is extremely high. So this is about membership in Portugal. We want to know more about cost reduction and how far we could reproduce these plans in 2024?

Well, the whole company is trying to reduce cost. Of course, productivity has to be there in store, and actions we launched during the first half year are bearing fruit in the second half year. So it's a timing effect. And of course, the performance of the second half here is even more impressive because of that, but you have to look at it over the full year. We are very happy with the results. And for the PDP, well for over 10 or 15 years, the company has struggled to keep costs really at a very low level. So it's part of our objectives. As Enrique said, 2024 is going to be a bit more normative in terms of inflation, but we have also the costs, like employees and rental cost increase in 2023. So it's not going to be easy, but will fight for that. Yes, we won't to use artificial intelligence as well. So each year, we have plenty of projects to develop correctly. The guidance of 2024, as we said, we are thinking that in our product, the product cycle will be more favorable than in 2023. The interest rates and the inflation rate will decrease in the mid or long-term. So it's a favorable, we have some events which are going to help us. Our own anniversary, the Olympic games, so all those events accumulated plus the arrival of a new cycle, and the innovative cycle, especially for the technological products, thanks to artificial intelligence. And thinking of the computer world, lacking innovations for yours. So this is going to have a more positive impact on the revenues. So we work on margins, on the cost, of course, and service services have to be quite supportive. Fourth question? You were saying? Well, it's lower than 30%. So there is no risk. We're not going to answer this question. For the buyback, share buyback, this program is to make sure that we can have a profit sharing plans. So there would be no problem in terms for the shareholders. When you have a share buyback program, you have a unique objective. This is for the allotment of the performance share and to -- if we had to cancel shares. So Jean had an underlying question but we could not get it.

Okay. Alexandra Cassa is asking us the following: for the EUR 106 million, this is the nonrecurring item?

To answer your question, Alex, out of the EUR 106 million, you have EUR 85 million being the provision for the DLC, ADLC and BRL 30 million for the brand impairments. We are not going to recover a part of it, transactions signed with the competitive authorities. So we sold to pay for it and it would be EUR 85 million for sure.

A lot of questions. What is the brand impairment of 2023 Darty mainly, and net equal as well, EUR 4 million and EUR 5 million for Darty linked to the development of the interest rates. So it increases the rates for the DCF calculation. The technical impact without any impact on cash. Second question. Well, you already answered this question. A question on what you are going to do with Nature & Découvertes?

Well, the cycles were not favorable last year for the discretionary products, but we invested a lot on the renewal of the offering and the attractiveness of the brand in terms of brand awareness and -- but consumers in this last period, we're not buying the discretionary products. So we are working with the teams to work on the cost, to look at the less profitable locations and to relaunch new cycle so that Nature & Découvertes becomes, again, the favored -- the favorite brand of the French.

And what about the ticketing disposal on the P&L?

It all depends on when we dispose of it. So the impact will depend on the time during the year where it will be deconsolidated, not disposed of, but deconsolidated in our guidance, to be clear. We took something intermediary, the ticketing will exit on the 30th of June, according to us. It has a negative impact of EUR 10 million on the ROC, on the current operating income. So we take as consumption this June. So you have 35% of the income after taxes, we could consolidate on the second half year, then it would be less than EUR 10 million. It is included in the guidance. Last point because we didn't answer your second question, Marie-Line, of the EUR 32 million we had for the discontinued operation. It was just the tax impact on the provision of EUR 130 million last year. Now we can deduct the Comet provision. And it will be eliminated on the 30th of December.

We don't have the full name of the person who's asking question about guidance that we gave for the EUR 240 million of cash flow for 2025. Well, 2025, given the market, as we know it today, is a new cycle that's starting, but it's still quite far, but there's no reason to doubt it. Of course, this guidance of EUR 140 million. We gave it in a different context with a very normative market context, and now, seeing what happened in 2023. This is not really the normal kind of market I agree that it's a difficult market, and we did manage to get to EUR 118 million, and we are confirming it for 2024. It's a slightly better market. So why shouldn't we do it? Then there's a whole series of questions about ticketing. I think you've answered some of them about the consolidation of the COR and also the cost of energy. The cost of energy is EUR 21 million, and that is related to the change in contract and also the increase in electricity prices, and the ability for us to absorb these prices. Now that has been adjusted downwards over the years, and that's quite satisfactory. And particularly, it's the consumer behavior -- consumption behavior, which shows that there's a decrease in consumption, and it will keep decreasing in 2024. And this goes with the price adjustment that will take place in 2024. So it will have a double-whammy effect on us. But taxes are shooting up the taxable makeup for a slight bit of it for the drop of energy prices in 2024. So it is a drop in prices and drop in consumption. And then I think we've answered this question about the cash flow for '23, '24. And now this is. About the cash generation of EUR 500 million. It's a question by Florent. My answer is yes.

Will there still be an improvement in working capital requirement. Will it be lower?

Yes, I think I've answered your question already.

Now this is about Spain coming from HBSC. How do you want to improve turnover in Spain?

Well, we were surprised by what happened in Spain. We were expecting more from the market, and it remains extremely aggressive. We try to protect it as best as we could by getting good margins, and by reducing volumes. And the technological performance is as good as in the earlier years, but we are not satisfactory -- satisfied. Actually, it was more impacted to the increase in interest rates, particularly for all the rentals. I think work on cost and restructuring of the company and certain developments in our flagship stores has combined with good performance in digital and brand reputation will help us to launch a recovery in good conditions, and we hit the right balance in terms of benefits.

The operating results of 2024 will there be better?

Well, I think that's what we were trying to explain to you in the present market conditions. We hope to get to at least the same level as 2023. And in cleared, we shall do as good as 2023 or better. It depends on recovery, and depends on consumers coming back to purchases. That's important. It's just that the underlying and consumption help us on the market like it happened in 2023. However, the cycle that we started by launching all our subscription efforts. And now we've got over 1 million people who've done it. It's replacing a lot of our old service activities. We are using all the second life repairs, et cetera, that's all showing -- making its way now, and it's leading to new cash generation. So in 2024, that will amplify and we'll have more volume on the market, more than in 2023, at least.

About refinancing and that's from Julie from my lines. He's asking us about how we finance our next bond issuance. Will it be convertible or not to begin with?

We have EUR 300 million that will be reaching with maturity in 2024, but we have a backup with DTL that we can use until we are fairly safe. If the markets are open and if there are enough even if the rates seem reasonable, it's quite feasible that we refined fairly quickly in 2024. That seems very clear. Now, on vertical response plus all the clearance given by RTE and via Directors Board for that, we shall have to benchmark. For us, this convertible market is not yet open.

Question on tension concerning the conflict in the Red Sea. Will that impact the logistics?

So this is a new happening, a new phenomenon. And it might have an impact on certain products that come by book, and that used to connect. But so far, the impact is limited. And at this point of time in the year, we have enough stock. So there's not much of an impact as far as stocks are concerned. Of course, we are on our tools and following it. If this contract is to extend, then all our partners don't have to readapt, we'll have to look for other sourcings, other warehousing closer to us on European markets and perhaps that's what we do. But for the time being, as things stand, it's too early if it's going to be a lasting effect or not. Limited impact as far as we see it today.

The question on the payment of the ADLC fine. When those EUR 85 million we provisions, can you answer that one?

Yes. There will be a payment. Unfortunately, one day we'll have to pay.

When exactly?

Well, the administrative procedure, the hearings have started. It would be during March, and we'll probably pay at the end of the first half year or beginning of the second half year, it all depends on the diligence. Well, there is no urgency because it dates back to 2009, but it would be end of the first half year or beginning of the second half year.

Question on the option of CTS, Emmanuelle HSBC has some doubts. Emmanuelle, I would like to know whether the exercise of the option may fall?

It's not going to fail, but the competitive authorities are examining the dose, try to understand how the ticketing market is operating and it may take some time. As usual, we are never sure of anything. We sell those authorities. So we have to be cautious in terms of time schedule. We have no great visibility on that.

Another question. The question is do we have an idea about the intense -- the capital increase.

We heard -- we received a letter of intent. This letter is similar to the previous one. They do not intend to buy back shares at given at a sufficient level. And for the long-term intent, where they took a major share in our equity. They are interested in the retail and various industries among which the retail. So we'll have to ask -- you have to ask this question to him. But this investor may support our projects.

The energy price. What is the impact of the decrease in the electricity cost?

The energy mix has changed. We reduced the consumption to a large extent. Fortunately, we still have this nuclear power. Therefore, we can use this nuclear power for our consumption. And we signed PPA contracts for solar energy as well. So the mix has changed. The energy mix has changed. The cost is now more similar, excluding taxes, similar to the one before the Ukraine crisis. That consumption has reduced a lot, and this is sustainable because it is not related to the climatic impact, but it's due to the investments in lighting. The right gestures adopted within the company in all our centers.

Another question. Dispute survey.

Survey was our energy supplier before 2022. We did not want to continue with them. We had discussions on the conditions of the termination of the contract. We found an agreement. It is a satisfactory agreement. We found another supplier. So this dispute is behind us and is well settled between our 2 companies.

Question by Alexandra. We talk a lot about artificial intelligence risk and opportunities, threats and for Fnac Darty, we see opportunities as product sellers. The first phone of Samsung is already equipped with artificial intelligence. So it would be more intuitive. The relationship with the product will be more into. It may accelerate the innovation cycle and the replacement of products. The consult layer will be integrated in the new products, which are going to come at the end of the year for household appliances. We can imagine a lot of improved performances.

So innovation will step up the cycle, more premium products as well. We're glad. And for the cost management and in terms of optimization of our system and back office, we have identified various initiatives everywhere across the company to help us better work on our data, and better manage our operating costs. We did a remarkable work in '22 and '23 to structure the data bases. We have our agreements with Google and Microsoft in terms of cloud. And we can now step up the use cases, and they will have a very tangible impact in 2024 beyond the proofs and tests. So we have very good hopes, strong hopes that this technology is not the brand new technology because we've been working on artificial intentions for some time, but it's going to -- the use within our teams is going to be increased.

Tim's question, are big brands reacting to use of a drop in volumes. Do we have more kickbacks or a fewer marks. What are they doing?

Well, all brands don't behave in the same way. So drop in volumes for certain categories was a bit violent. We are comparing it to earlier years when the market was even buoyant and it was nearly EUR 1 billion worth. And today, it's about 67% greater than our sales before COVID. So it's not as though our margins are down. The volumes were compensated partly by the average rate, and despite the fact that inflation has neutralized it, but brands are just getting used to adjusting this new system, becoming more efficient, not just to bring mark of prices down, because you still have to maintain that. They are improving on value and quality. Just the retailers like Darty, that's what we have to do now. Some 2023. It could also mean that the industry is going through a new consolidation cycle. And that certain brands, particularly in home appliances will now like Bubeck, et cetera, are coming together. Some we've talked about outsourcing to China, relocating to China. So we can see that there is an impact concerning volume. But like in all industry, there are high and low cycles, and that sometimes means that you have to reorganize, restructure, streamline, and we all have to do this.

Question. Sales in stores in 2023. So what's your strategy on this side, a new opening in France? Or are you shutting down?

Well, thanks for your question. As you see, we're still developing our stores, particularly franchise stores. So sometimes we have some owned stores, and that's something that we continue to do here or in abroad, either our franchised or stand-alones, and we have project concerning kitchenware. We are developing all our kitchen brands. 2023 showed very good results, and we've earned ourselves quite a reputation. And that's in France. But in Saudi Arabia, we also have opened a new store, and we have projects that will continue. The 70% of our sales are through the digital performance that we have in stores, particularly around Christmas. And that has certainly helped us. That's the omnichannel business that's really helped us. It was the Click and Collect, of course. Now, of course, we've also got more competitivity in the bookstores, particularly since October. Since October. I think consumers have understood now that for certain cards, they have to pay. And concerning shutting down our stores. We're doing what we promised in 2025. Nearly 100% of our total stores will be profitable. Either they're all being dealt with, and we are trying to find remediation or shut down. There's going to be certain refurbishment as well. All that is underway, and I'm perfectly sure that we'll be able to do it, to have everybody in good financial health.

One last, and ask a question.

There are a lot of questions which have already been answered. So I'm sorry if I haven't answered all of you individually because some of them were bunched up. Of course, with the team, we meet you in various fora and we give you means to ask us questions. So we'd like to thank you all very much for listening in, and for the interest that you have in our group. I do hope that we'll be meeting you soon again in the coming weeks or even later so that we can keep sharing with you all our Darty and Fnac adventures. Thank you very much. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]