Fomento de Construcciones y Contratas, S.A. (FCC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

This meeting is being recorded.

[Audio Gap] I want to apologize to you because we had a little delay this morning. We know that we need to send the invitations through a new system, and we had a few problems, but I believe that all the reports have been made available to you all. For the first time, we are using a new platform through Zoom. And therefore, for asking questions, you should use the questions and answers tab on the platform. And then at the end of the session, we will read the questions and then answer them. So -- and please remember to shut off your microphones. You can also make use of the interpretation service. In terms of the earnings, as I was saying, the results have already been published. And the most important figures, well, I want to mention a few elements. In terms of revenues, we increased by 15.7%, more than double-digit growth across all our business areas. As in previous quarters, this also includes the contribution of acquisitions that we have made, particularly Water and Real Estate. All of this had a positive effect on the EBITDA, where we had a significant growth. And we also had our margins over the year, which was -- particularly the operational margin was very good across all our business areas. And in some of them, it was especially good, such as Water and Real Estate. So we had a financial year where we managed to achieve 17% margin, which is very stable figure with respective to the previous financial year. If you look at the bottom line of our P&L, we had a result of EUR 610 million. Here, there was a reduction as a result of the fact that we had an adjustment of the book value of the Cement goodwill for an amount of EUR 200 million. And here, we just took into consideration the effect of the increase in interest rates. And in the case of Cement, the higher impact of the energy costs that this area suffered quite particularly. This -- at the level of EBIT, this compares with a positive evolution in 2021 with an amount of around EUR 128 million. So if we adjusted in both years, the extraordinary effects or the nonrecurring effects at the level of exploitation in 2021 and 2022, we would have reached an increase in EBIT even higher than the 17% of EBITDA. So another heading, which is very important and that should be mentioned is the future revenues. At the 31st of December, we had over EUR 40 billion, which is a significant increase of over 33% with respect to 2021 and well balanced across all our areas. I would particularly mention Water and Construction, where the increase was very significant, particularly 65%. Having said this, and just going into a greater detail of the different business areas and analyzing each of the geographies that we are present in. With respect to that increase of 15.7% of consolidated revenues per jurisdictions, focusing on Spain, our turnover increased by 8.3% to EUR 4.2 billion. We had a significant an increase in the Environment area, particularly, we had a great success, and renewals of new contracts in the most important activity for Environment, which is the street cleaning activity. We also had in Spain the effect of -- contribution of the Real Estate activity as a result of the incorporations in 2022, both of the Realia and the Jezzine Group. Now Water management and Cement also performed very well in Spain in terms of Water. There was a recovery that we already expected of volumes, particularly residential volumes and also nonresidential volumes increased. In terms of cement, we also experienced a significant improvement in prices, which allowed us to compensate for a slight decrease of volumes, not just for our company, but for the sector as a whole, the effect in Cement has been positive. In terms of Construction, well, here there is a dissent note because in Spain, everything works quite well, but we had a reduction in the number of public and private projects. But I would say that the evolution, well, has been according to what we had expected. And lastly, and I want to mention this very clearly, in terms of concessions, you know that we reported within the corporate unit -- corporate and others. So the contribution was EUR 41 million for Spain. As you know, we acquired in November last year, we acquired the whole of the concession of the tramway of the -- of Murcia, which is a city in the southeast of Spain. The second section, just in terms of geographies, within Europe, we should mention the United Kingdom, here revenues also increased significantly, even higher than in Spain. The increase was of 22.6%, we exceeded EUR 1 billion here. We should mention the activity of recovery and valorization plans. And the greatest inertia we had was to do with some of our Construction contracts for civil works. Another important heading -- another important market in Europe is the Czech Republic, where our Environmental and Water activities performed very solidly EUR 385 million. And for the rest of Europe, essentially the European Union and some other countries, such as Georgia, our revenues increased by 8.4% to EUR 380 million. Here, you should remember that at the beginning of 2022, we incorporated an integrated cycle system in Georgia in the capital of the country and other operational units, such as Construction in the rest of Europe, excluding other markets, showed quite a good behavior. They compensated one and another. If we now go to the Americas, revenues, both in the United States and in the rest of the countries in Latin America, we had a significant increase of over 100%, to be specific 102% to EUR 760 million. And here, there was an increase in the pace of activity in the contracts that we have incorporated, particularly in the Construction sector. I would mention Mexico and also we should mention our organic expansion in the Environment sector. And just to mention the MENA region, North of Africa and the Middle East here, we had quite good results. We increased our revenues by 11% to almost EUR 361 million. And here, our level of activity was quite satisfactory. We have a policy of selective growth for O&Ms and partial concessions, which we call BOT, particularly in countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Those activities have made a good contribution. Also, the Construction activity was evolved quite satisfactorily. So in terms of revenues, this 15% growth has been quite harmonious across our different platforms. Now if we go into detail into the different business areas, as you know, starting by Environmental services, our Waste Management unit had revenues 12% higher at the level of the area, EUR 3.6 billion. To be honest, the whole of the -- across the chain, the activities performed very well, both in terms of collection, recycling, recovery and removal of waste. Also, the ancillary activities performed very well such as street cleaning or care of green areas. The growth was very positive between renewals and new contracts. And I would just like to mention again in Spain and the United States, there was particularly good behavior. But Central Europe also did very well. In this respect, in Spain, we had an increase of 7.5% with respect to the previous year, EUR 1.975 billion. Later, I will speak about some of the most important contracts that we have secured, but our renewal rates are extremely satisfactory. To give you an idea, last year in Spain, the figure was over EUR 2.3 billion [Technical Difficulty] significantly. There were about EUR 800 million. And here, there was a recovery in volumes and also a positive effect in terms of pricing of all our activities of recovery and processing. In the case of Central Europe, revenues in the Environment area reached almost EUR 600 million in here, well, in one of the main markets, which is Central European cluster, particularly Czechia, they had a very good performance, but there were also good results in Slovakia and in Austria. Lastly, as I was saying before, one of the jurisdictions that is showing a very significant growth in the Environment area is the United States, where the growth was of over 37% in turnover, reaching EUR 278 million. We are having many contracts, and we keep growing in states like Texas, Florida. But I would like to mention our entry into California, close to the city of Sacramento, we managed to win a contract to exploit and extend mechanical biological plant for this region close to the city of Sacramento, which is a capital city of California. And to give you an idea in the United States, we already have a platform that is growing in a very sustained way. Last year, we hired -- we contracted over EUR 1 billion. And in December, we also made a selective acquisition in December 2022, like we did in December 2021. This is a small company that we have taken over, which is called Houston Waste Solutions, which allows us to keep complementing our collection and treatment activities from Dallas to the city of Houston. And this indicates that perhaps the short term -- become one of the main 10 market operators in the United States. So the Environment area overall increased by 10%, exceeding EUR 500 million. It was a very harmonious growth in terms of revenues. The greatest contribution came from the so-called treatment activity, which includes recycling, circular economy and thermal valorization. And all of this happened in a year where the environment was not immune to the increase in energy costs like other economic activities. So we are very happy that the EBITDA was quite similar to that of 2021. Now with respect to the second area in terms of importance for us linked to Water cycle. Here, turnover increased by 13.1%, reaching EUR 1.3 billion. I just want to remind you of the positive impact of the acquisition of GGU in Georgia, which we took over in February of last year. GGU is a company that owns the different systems. So they own the integrated cycle they exploit. So the performance was very good across different areas in terms of integrated cycles. This is the exploitation of the whole process. Technology and networks is the part that has to do with development, which supports the integrated cycle. And the performance was slightly lower in terms of revenues, but it was still quite good. Now more specifically, in terms of Water, in Spain, the increase in revenues, well, was quite significant. What we -- the pattern that we witnessed was to be expected after COVID, there was a relative nonresidential consumption, especially related with tertiary commercial activities in certain coastal areas or in the island. So there was an increase in the number of cubic meters -- nonresidential cubic meters, which is compensated for the slight reduction in the residential market, and we also supported the technology and networks infrastructure in Spain. This is something that we do with currently for our hundreds of concessions in integrated cycle technologies. So this was -- so there was a positive evolution in terms of activity in the domestic market. I mean, the rest of Europe, including Georgia, you have to -- there was a 67% increase in revenues. And here, we also had a good performance from, well, the increases in the rates and integrated cycle that we own -- that we own in Czechia, there was an increase of 4.4% and in the rest, there was also a good performance of new contracts that we keep adding to our portfolio, for example, in jurisdictions like France, where in the west of Paris in Île-de-France, we have also been growing little by little in a very prudent manner, but also in a positive way. And in other concessions too, for example, in Sicily, there was also a satisfactory increase in some of the prices of some of the works -- projects that we have undertaken. In MENA, the increase was up 16%, EUR 131 million. Here, we implemented different contracts in Qatar, Saudi Arabia. And here, I wanted to mention that we already implemented one of the large water purifying plants in Cairo in Africa, which serves several millions of people. We are very happy about this. I'm very proud of it from the Environmental point of view. And I also want to mention that, we've got a very important award. It's 2 new contracts that are called clusters. It's like large structures, whether -- the Saudi Arabian government has divided the country in order to award different contracts related to integrated water management. And here, we have won the Northern and the Southern cluster that we will be putting into service in the future. But this has no impact on that 16% I mentioned for the Middle East. In a different jurisdiction, which is Latin America, the turnover was similar to that of the previous year, EUR 150 million, but it's a little bit misleading because there was a lower contribution from technology and networks because of the finishing of some contracts, but we are still moving forward. We are still making acquisitions -- selective acquisitions, such as those in Colombia and Mexico. And we are also advancing along the process of developing our contracts to implement our water purification contracts. And so this is a very positive evolution. So those are 4 blocks in Europe, MENA, Latin America, et cetera, EBITDA increased by 17.2%, we reached a significant amount of euros. Of course, this is due to the combined effect of organic and inorganic growth. We have created a margin of 26.5%. And here, I want to mention that this was achieved in a year like 2022 when the cost of energy took a heavy toll in our Water activities. And so I think that the increase in our operational margin is really, I think, something to feel proud of. I would like to give you an overview of how we have evolved across the 3 business activities more related with the Construction cycle. First of all, design and execution of work projects. This is -- here, revenues also increased considerably by 18.5% to almost EUR 2 billion. I would just like to mention that in the different jurisdictions, Europe and Latin America, which were capable of compensating for the fall we experienced in Spain, which was not unexpected. But having said this, in the Spanish market, the turnover went down slightly by 1.7%. But -- and -- but here, the most important project we have now underway is that of the Santiago Bernabéu football stadium, which is progressing satisfactorily. In the rest of Europe and in other markets, as I was saying in the rest of regions, the European Union, together with the United Kingdom, we -- our figures increased by 19.5%. Here, I would like to mention the highway that -- we are working on 465 Highway and Highway 9 in the Netherlands, close to Amsterdam, and other projects that are also going to contribute to our success, such as a bridge in Norway, which is one of the most complex bridges that the country is going to have. We have also increased our portfolio in the Romanian market, which is also working on a lot of civil works. Now if we go to the Americas, here, we had growth that was quite significant, EUR 434 million, almost double turnover the previous year. I would like to mention the complex project of the Maya Tren in Yucatán Peninsula in Mexico, where we really made a lot of headway. And in the rest -- and we are also going to incorporate new contracts that we have been obtaining in jurisdictions such as the United States and Canada. We have been awarded [indiscernible] in the area of Pennsylvania and in the surroundings of Toronto. We have also progressed quite significantly in other areas such as Colombia and Peru. In the MENA region, there have been developments in different markets. Here, revenues experienced a moderate growth, but still positive, 10.3%. Here, I would like to mention that we achieved to extend the 3 underground lines of Riyadh, and the result of this has been very satisfactory. We also announced, and this had no impact on our revenues. The award of one of the tunnels for [indiscernible] project, which is the project developed by the Saudi Arabian government. It's a critical project that is highly important for them, which is located in the northwest of the country, close to the Egyptian Board and close to Israel. It's a very strategic area, and we are very happy that -- we feel proud of having received that award. And before we turn to operations, I want to mention that we have also signed an agreement to enter Australia under a collaborative model with the Australian government to study a potential development of a dual bridge close to Melbourne. So having said this and in spite of the fact that many of these contracts are still not included within the revenues, the EBITDA over the year increased by 19% in the Construction sector, EUR 192 million. And this is thanks to an evolution that was really in line with the execution of contracts because the operational margin stayed quite stable. It is at a level of 6.2%. I think that this figure is identical to the figure reached in 2021. And as I said, for Water or for the Environment, we have contracted EUR 2.7 billion, which -- this allowed us to increase our Construction portfolio to over EUR 6.5 billion. The second activity related to the Construction cycle is Cement. Here, revenues increased by 19.1%. We reached EUR 516.5 million. Here, the most important thing have been the increases that we've had in prices, which happened across the board in our main market, which is Spain and to a lesser extent in Tunisia. And this increase is compensated for the reductions that we experienced in the volumes invoiced and also exports made a positive contribution. Specifically in Spain, the increase in our turnover was 19.6%. We reached EUR 314 million. As I said here, there was an increase in prices, which occurred across the industry. And this was a partial reflection of the strong increase in energy prices, as you know, both for fossil fuels and renew -- and electrical energy. in Tunisia, we also had a modest growth, 8.3% revenues. And here, the volume was of higher quality. And in the case of Tunisia, the increase in prices was lagged a little bit behind the Spanish market. So the increase in revenues was lower in Tunisia, but still satisfactory. As I said before, exports and our shippings from Spain to Europe mainly and to other markets increased by 23.2%. We reached to EUR 139 million, and this allowed us to achieve that significant increase in turnover, which is true that this increase in turnover was not as high as we would have liked it to be, but it was still quite significant. There are 2 components that have to be mentioned here. It is true that last year, we executed sales of CO2 rights for EUR 7.8 million. But this year, we sold nothing. But in addition to that, we should consider the inevitable impact that we had to absorb of the significant increase in energy prices, both electrical and fossil fuels we have been working. We've worked very hard over the year to try and mitigate this through PPAs, as I mentioned in previous meetings. In terms of Real Estate, finally, which is the third leg of this activity, revenues went up to EUR 270 million. Here, obviously, I just want to remind you of the effect of the global consolidation throughout 2022 of and Realia and Jezzine Group. You know that in 2021, they only contributed 2 months. But if we focus on each of those 2 blocks, I would mention the patrimonial activity. If we look at the turnover, it was of EUR 106.7 million. Here, the increase was quite satisfactory in terms of the occupancy levels, which stayed very stable at 94% approximately. So very similar to those in 2021. As you know, here, we basically dealing in offices because of the presence of Jezzine, which has a contract with Caixabank in terms of their branch network. And as regards the residential market, we reached EUR 164 million, and the growth was 25.6%. This is due to the consolidation of the development activity of Realia and the organic activity of the company, we also had a component to do with the land sales and there was a high pace in the delivery of finished buildings. Just I want to mention something about 2023. We finished 2022 with a series of buildings that were pending delivery. And so these properties will be delivered in 2023. The EBITDA for the Real Estate activity you know that it has been punished or penalized by our activity, but it did increase quite significantly. And the operational margin rose to 52.7%. I do want to mention that we have announced the update of the value of the assets of the different -- revaluation of all our assets in Real Estate, which is something that we had to do and the figures they are quite comparable to that 2021, and we -- as it was to be expected, the asset component still has a significant weight. It accounts for 73% of the overall figure of the EUR 3 billion, which is the market value of our Real Estate area. Now if we now pass on to the next area, I want to speak about cash generation and the financial structure of the group. Now in terms of conversion, in terms of exploitation, over this period, we had a cash -- exploitation cash flow of almost EUR 1.5 billion, which is a very significant increase. It's EUR 700 million more in terms of exploitation operational cash flow, of course, that's the increase in EBITDA I mentioned, which explains it, but also a favorable evolution of working capital. As a result of this working capital, we had a generation of over EUR 285 million. And if we had to mention one area responsible for this, it would be Construction with a contribution of almost EUR 170 million. In terms of receivables and payables, I want to mention that we've had a flat result. It is true that, in 2021, we had an outlay. But here, in 2022, we had a series of returns of taxes corresponding to previous years. And this explains that this year, we practically had a neutral balance because of this inflow from payments of corporate taxes. In terms of investment cash flow, I also wanted to mention the evolution of our financial debt. There was an application of almost EUR 1 billion. There were different investments, well, EUR 193 million was the figure for 2022. The most important headings for the investment cash flow here is free cash flow and the payments for investments. There was an increase of over EUR 500 million in the investments deployed across the group, which reached a figure of almost EUR 1.1 billion, EUR 1.082 billion. The main 2 areas in the group were Environment and Water. Environment added a total of EUR 428 million, highly related with what I mentioned about the United States and Spain, but also in other geographies. In terms of Water, we received investments for over EUR 382 million. This includes the acquisition of GGU and others in Colombia or the organic growth being executed in other jurisdictions. In addition to these investment blocks in terms of Water and the Environment, I want to mention the investment of EUR 138 million made to acquire minority stake in Metrovacesa. And finally, also during 2022, we acquired a certain percentage in the stake of the Murcia underground where we invested in November last year, EUR 48 million. So I just want to mention that the investment cash flow was quite notable, namely EUR 1.06 billion. So the consolidated cash flow where we applied EUR 587 million, here, I would say that the most significant thing was particularly movements linked to the refinancing of our debt -- of the [indiscernible] Group, which was closed with no difficulties in the first half of the year and other minor components such as the payment -- the payout of dividends to different minority shareholders and others. So as a whole, the good evolution of the operational cash flow and the investments we made has led the treasury of the group to finish at very similar levels to the previous years, almost EUR 1.6 billion as compared with 2021. And I want to link this to the evolution of our financial debt. As you have seen in our financial debt, essentially gross and net, the figures have stayed practically unaltered. The gross debt closed off below EUR 5 billion. As you know, it is essentially linked to the recurrent long-term activities, Water, Environment, rental assets in the case of FCC and our Real Estate activity. And if we look at it in the light of those variations, I mentioned cash flow and the net financial leverage of the group fell somewhat with respect to 2021, but we should mention that we are also absorbing not just payments -- the payment of the investments we made but also that consolidated financial debt must absorb the debt that we have consolidated, particularly from 2 acquisitions that of GGU and that of the Murcia underground system where the volume of debt is quite significant. So you have the breakdown there of the debt structure distributed across different business areas and different types of debt with or without recourse and you will have time to look at this in greater detail. But I just want to mention that the net cash position of the company, the net with recourse for the parent company is in excess of EUR 600 million. I don't want to run on too much. I already consumed a significant number of minutes. I -- just by way of conclusion, I would like to say that the evolution of the group was positive in 2022. I think that it was of high quality. We're highly satisfactory in terms of our growth. I think that -- I want to also mention the evolution of our contracts across the different areas of activity, and this is something we are all very proud of. Thank you very much for having devoted your time to us. And now we will move to the questions you may have been asking during my presentation.

So first question, the evolution of our current operational capital was very positive in the first half of the year as compared with previous years. Have there been significant prepayments or something that justifies this evolution?

Well, yes, indeed, there was a combination of different factors. First of all, the conversion, which for us is important of EBITDA to cash flow. In terms of mean collection periods has stayed stable -- quality, mean payment collection periods has stayed stable, and this is something we should mention. Also, we were able to monetize a series of units that were pending works that had already been executed, for example, construction works that had already been executed. These parameters has also improved in the second part of the year. And also related with the number of contracts we secured, we received some advanced payments such as one in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Americas. So yes, there was a combination of factors that allowed us to close with a figure. And if you analyze the EBITDA to generate resources conversion, well, it's really very positive. Yes, there was a combination of a series of factors.

Some newspapers have mentioned that Aqualia wanted to invest EUR billion in the next few years, including inorganic growth. Could you mention whether it is true? And in what geographies they intend to make these investments?

Well, just take into account that, first of all, that figure of EUR 1 billion may fall within the levels of investment that could be executed in Aqualia. Obviously, the figure may be a little [indiscernible], not everything is going to be executed. Aqualia is a group that is already generating around 20% or 25% of its EBITDA in a proprietary integrated cycle business. So this means that you need to execute a certain amount of CapEx, which can be recovered, of course, later on. This billion is just a figure that includes organic and inorganic growth. Now in what market is this going to be realized? Well, Aqualia, as you know, and I've mentioned it in my presentation when I spoke about revenues, we have selected different geographies in Europe, particularly to do with concessions integrated cycle, namely Spain. We have some contracts in Portugal. In Italy, there is contract in Sicily. We also are present in the Czech Republic and Georgia. So that is an area where we keep looking at organically. Another area would be MENA. We are also interested in MENA for obvious reasons because it's an emerging area generally with significant financial capacity and huge technical and resource needs, particularly in terms of water infrastructure in the area of the Persian Gulf. I mentioned Saudi Arabia, I mentioned Qatar, UAE, I mentioned Egypt. And of course, in the Americas, I mentioned Colombia and Mexico. There may be other selected jurisdictions that we're looking at, such as the United States, but we want to be very prudent. We want to trade very carefully. But if necessary, we might go for that, too.

About in terms of your participations in Realia and Metrovacesa, do you feel comfortable with the current position? Would like to group these companies into one single real estate operator?

Well, if we were not comfortable with our current positions, we wouldn't have them. So we have the positions that we believe are adequate. In terms of -- to answer the question, I think that, as you may understand, since we are talking about listed companies, we can't really make any comments because anything we may say could lead -- could be construed as insider information. So when time comes, we will make the best decision.

What are your investment plans for 2023, distinguishing organic from inorganic investments?

Well, I don't know. This question perhaps is a little bit general in terms of organic and inorganic growth. Just if I'm right, would -- I just want to say that in -- for the whole of the group in 2021, we've turned over some assets in 2022 in terms of collections for divestitures, especially, there were no divestitures. Taking into account the slightly -- well, the EUR 1 billion payment we have made, well, we combined organic and inorganic growth. The key is to analyze and to make sure that no damage is caused. On the contrary, they should contribute to our capital returns per activity and per geographical area. I would say that the levels we have -- we executed in 2022 were quite significant. Growing at these levels again will be a significant challenge. But I just want to mention that last year, we ended with an EBITDA of over EUR 1.3 billion. We had a satisfactory cash conversion, probably more satisfactory than the group has achieved on a recurrent basis, but the financial -- our financial situation is very solvent. And if you consider our cash flow and the willingness of our shareholders to distribute all of these amounts of money, this means that we are really very well positioned. Now how these investments are going to be made? Are they going to be made, how much is going to be made organically or inorganically? It's difficult to say.

Real estate strategy. Are you going to simplify your current real estate structure?

Well, FCC Inmobiliaria starting with it's structure has a very lean structure. In the Real Estate sector, Realia is a company that has its own structure, which is quite well adjusted to its activities, basically more in asset management than in development. So as I say, it's a very slight structure. And then, of course, the other branches are managed well, such as group's high amount of assets, but it's all very efficient because the company is very well managed from Realia [ FCC ]. The units operationally are integrated -- they're integrated operationally. I don't know whether I mentioned this. All the different synergies of Realia are used for [ FCC ]. So there's no duplications in any structures. They have this EUR 3 billion. It's a very powerful unit from the point of view -- the point of view of the asset value. But from the point of view of operational efficiency, they're also at a very high level. There's no mega structures that need to be integrated or streamlined.

What are the forecasts for the Construction area? And how are you going to mitigate the inflation rate?

Well, in construction, we closed at a 6.2% margin. We are very satisfied with this margin. As you know, the majority of contracts which exceed EUR 2 billion is civil works. We like this, although civil works are a challenge. For example, Santiago Bernabéu is important challenge, but this makes us different, and this allows us to have a margin that is higher than average for more standard public works, but we believe that this is a challenge, but we believe that it is a sustainable challenge in terms of how to fight inflation. I mentioned that like everybody else in the construction sector, we are trying to sign longer-term contracts and use collaborative models. I think that there's an increasing sensitivity by customers, particularly public sector customers, to embrace these modalities, which are quite laborious. But in all our contracts, we have clauses -- standard clauses or adjusted to different jurisdictions, where for long-term contracts, the customer recognizes that there's some costs such as material costs or labor costs that are subject to modification. In our annual report, we expressly mentioned the risk management heading. And the statement we made is that we believe that there's no significant difficulties or problems with any specific contract in this regard. So that specific management of our contract, I think, has given us good results, and we are very calm about this.

Could you give us an update of Alpine matter?

Well, in Alpine, there's an extensive note about Alpine in the provision sector. Things are still evolving quite slowly so, but positively. So as you know, in Alpine, there's only 3 complaints that are still alive, which liquidator is still maintaining for less than EUR 200 million, and there's a significant section, which is to do with a complaint related with an old issuance of this company. Of course, this company has been outside our perimeter for many years. But in that complaint, well, the court already rejected the complaint by the Alpine receiver. And we have asked the judge to -- the Austrian judge, I have asked him to decide whether he wants to close the matter or whether he wants to call any more witnesses. But in 2022, there were no significant developments, but everything until 2021 progressed very positively, and we have no expectation that things may go right.

What is the maintenance CapEx of the group at present?

Well, with -- of course, as you may imagine, in a group like ours, although our contracts are very carefully performed in some areas such as Environment or contracts such as Madrid, where the fleets have to be renewed or certain installations have to be renewed in certain treatment plans, which may increase our CapEx. Our maintenance CapEx for the group would be around EUR 550 or EUR 580 a year. But please take this figure with a pinch of salt because in some years, when you have some significant renewals and we always want to introduce technical -- new technical solutions, which require a lot of CapEx and we're going to get back later on, of course, this needs to be taken into consideration.

What is the level of debt at variable interest rates?

Well, the debt we have at variable interest rates is -- stands at 38% of total.

Are you going to perform more buybacks considering the price of the share?

Well, we need to -- well, it's all up to the Board of Directors. It's still -- there's still an active buyback for a percentage slightly higher than 0.3% of the share capital. For us, this is a way of dedicating a certain amount of money to signal the situation of the share price. Are we going to do more or less of this? Well, it depends. It's all up to the Board of Directors. So the Board needs to decide whether they want to do something else in this respect.

Do you see a higher capacity of inorganic growth for your activities?

Well, in the United States, well, the United States has 50 different states. In terms of Environment, well, in areas where the legislation, especially Environment is more advanced, there's more environmental sensitivity. Well, there may be a room for growth. The United States is highly variable in that regard. But what is needed, like in Europe, is to establish a link between a political commitment and the social demand. I think that, that is growing. I would say that the south belt, I mentioned Texas, Florida and California is the first one we identified. But we are present in other states too. For example, we have one contract in Nebraska, in the Midwest. I would say that with that, for the time being, we have enough on our plate. Taking into account that there are states in the U.S., which are like countries in Europe in terms of their sheer size, but I would say that in principle, it will be these states which are better aligned with what we apply here in Europe.

Are you considering investments in -- pipelines in renewables?

Well, in renewable energies, we are investing -- well, as far as we have plants that can generate electrical energy from biomass, which, of course, will be given more recognition. We are investing in energy self sufficiency with, for example, solar plays to increase the percentage of self-consumed energy. So it is already a business line for us. So this is what we have done so far.

What is the value of the concessional business in your perimeter?

Well, in terms of the investments that we have made in our shareholders' equity in terms of concessions, the volume, and I want to underscore this, this is the book value. I won't like for people to translate this into market values. You know that for infrastructure concessions, things may be very different. But I think -- off the top of my head, I think it's EUR 165 million at the end of 2022. This is our participation in concessions of transport and similar services.

How much of the energy cost is covered or hedged?

Well, now the 2 units I mentioned, which had a higher weight in terms of the energy electrical cost, which is Cement and Water. Well, Cement for 2023, we have covered 72%. And in the case of Water, it's a percentage that's very similar, around almost 75% would be hedged.

What will be the growth in the debt in 2023 and 2024? What maturities in the debt do you have?

Well, in 2023, there will be one maturity, which is a bond issued by the Environment area, which will mature in December this year for an amount of EUR 600 million. And then there's smaller maturities for different credit -- revolving credit lines, which are ordinary credit lines for certain recurrent structures for the financing of specific projects. And in 2024, there's not really very major maturities to be expected.

What are the prospects for Water services in 2023?

Well, in the light of what we have obtained in 2022, I would say that, well, our results show that these are 2 highly resilient areas, services and infrastructures. We have a wonderful value chain in both. You know that we don't quantify figures, but you shouldn't expect a different performance from the one observed in 2022. Of course, considering that in terms of Water, we won't have that takeover of GGU. So it's going to be a year marked by consolidation. But if you look at the maintenance figure and the renewals we have obtained, the growth is still going to be very solid in both areas.

What is the goodwill -- the outstanding goodwill for Cement?

Well, the outstanding goodwill for Cement, and here, I need to read my notes. If you give me a second, we still have EUR 143 million that needs to be amortized. And I encourage you to look at the goodwill chapter where we break down the different elements that have led us to this impairment, which is related with the increase in the discount rates that we have conservatively adjusted to bring the UTEs to the current value and the figure is of EUR 143 million. There's no further questions. Okay. Thank you very much. I just want to remind you that all the information on the management report and the audited annual report, so all of this information is available. I just want to thank you again and remind you that if you need anything, you can get in touch with us through the usual channels. Have a good weekend. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]