Foods and Inns Limited (507552) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Anand, if you want to add any?

So with respect to the seasonality of the business, basically, what you need to understand is that since the raw material is available only 3 months of a year and our production needs to be done. So you cannot look at this business typically on a quarter-on-quarter basis. You have to look at it as to what the company is doing on a year-long basis. So a lot of our contracts are more than a year long, say, example, Coke and all that we actually deal with, have a 15- to 17-month contract window that we actually have. So ideally, it's that contract period that you have to see to actually assess the business. But having said that, it's very difficult to assess it that way. So it's the year-on-year absolute growth in gross profit, absolute growth in EBITDA that you should actually track to see as to how the business is doing. So that's the best way for any analyst to track this business.

Just to get to that point, sir, then what factors have alluded to the drop in profitability and the revenue for the 9 months if we compare the 9 months performance?

Sorry, sorry, can you just repeat the question.

9 months...

I am pointing towards -- yes, yes, definitely, sir. For the 9 months ending 31st December '25, our revenue has been to the tune of INR 580 crores, which was INR 610 crores for the previous year, where the profitability has taken a toll from -- it has dipped from INR 20 crores to INR 12 crores, whereas there has been savings in front of finance cost also, but then also the profitability is lower. So what explains these dips in the business, the turnover as well as profitability for the 9 months?

Okay, so...

Reasons...

So the stand-alone numbers, if you were to actually see the gross profit...

Consol number, sir.

Yes, I'm just talking about the main business first, and then we can actually come to the consol if you want. So it's important to understand the main business, right? So that's why I'm stressing on the stand-alone numbers for now. So if you see the standalone numbers first, the gross profit has actually increased from INR 216 crores to INR 235 crores. So there has been an 8.7% increase in the gross profit on a 9-month basis. But you are right in actually saying that the EBITDA has actually gone down, wherein it is down by around INR 10-odd crores in the 9-month basis. So a part of it -- a large part of it can be explained by the M2M margin that's the M2M ForEx loss that we actually incurred, wherein we had hedged the exports that we had actually done at a certain rate. And because of the depreciation in rupee, that has actually hit our mark-to-market in the business. So that's necessarily not a cash loss in the business. But then since the exchange is booked, we receive only that much of inflows, right? So that's what has actually happened. So optically, that's looking like a loss. So that's one part of it. The other part has also been because of the freight-related things that have actually happened and the other operational expenses that have increased. But having said that, come Q4, I think we should be in a much better position on the EBITDA basis with a growth as compared to what it was last year. That's something that you can take for granted.

Sir, now can you give the color for the consol part? I'm trying to make when we are valuing the company, we are always looking this as a consolidated entity. So on...

Okay, so you -- what you need to understand is that between the standalone and the consol, it's only a difference of revenue of -- on a full year basis, around INR 22 crores, INR 23 crores because Kusum is the business that actually adds on to the consol, right, as of now. And that business is slightly at an EBITDA loss as we speak today, basically because we are actually expanding our footprint geographically, and we are trying to invest into the brand, Kusum as such. So I deliberately excluded that just so that you could understand the core business as well as the Kusum business. I mean, if you were to just understand that.

Sir, I got your point there. But a small point, and then I may join the queue is that I'm trying to just work out that on a top line decrease of, say, from INR 609 crores to INR 580 crores, the profitability has gone down by INR 8 crores. So just if you could just give that mix that what has attributed to this decline. And then on a comparable basis for the year as a whole, last year, we have done closer to INR 50 crores of profit, PBT number...

Right.

So taking this performance, this gap is going to continue for this financial year. So for this year, we are not expecting any growth on the...

No, we are. So you can expect the gap to be close and be bettered by Q4 is all that I'm trying to say because what is there in that INR 50 crores is basically the PLI income as well. So the PLI income is going to be coming, and our PLI incentives are at a much higher number than what it was last year. That's number one. Number two, our Q4 is supposed to be one of our stellar quarters. Historically, that's been how the business has actually performed. So MS if you need to add something?

I think, sir, we'll be able to -- what you told that last year, total profit before tax is around INR 52 crores, I believe. And though this year, revenue is a challenge because our realization is lower compared to earlier years, but we are expecting a higher volume if we consider the projected sale of Q4. So overall, there will be a higher volume, but revenue will be under stress due to the lower realization, but profitability will be maintained and likely to be better than last year.

Okay. And the last point on the PLI front, sir, what is the number that we have factored for the last financial year? And what should be factored for the current year, FY '26? March '26, how much are we factoring in, in terms of PLI...

PLI amount for the current year -- last year, we have given around INR 25 crores. This year, we have submitted our application. It is under process. So today, we may not be able to give the exact figure. But we believe that based on the our sales and all these things, it will be similar like last year, maybe a little higher than last year.

Yes. Higher than last year is what the number is. We don't want to confirm on the number because it is all government related. So we have applied for a certain number. We are 99% hopeful that, that should be the number that we should get. So...

Last year amount we have received, sir, INR 25 crores in FY '25?

Correct.

Sir, not in FY '25. That was for FY '24.

Yes, that was for FY '24 received in FY '25.

Okay. And the figure for INR 25 crores that we have factored for March '25, that money has been received by us or that is still pending?

It has come...

Yes, we accrue on actual basis, on a cash receipt basis.

Come again, sir?

We booked the income in P&L since it's a government-related thing, we book that on actual receipt basis.

Okay. And lastly, sir, out of the INR 50 crores long-term debt, can you please put forward the reasons for which the long-term debt is being there for what kind of capacity addition or product mix change we are anticipating? How is this money going to be utilized?

Sorry, the long-term debt that -- that actually -- we have actually repaid around INR 20-odd crores.

No, no, INR 50 crores for what purpose, it's there...

So the -- [Foreign Language] so basically, we are getting incentives under the PLI, right? So we have invested under the PLI as well as outside the PLI, I mean, for the growth of the business as such. So that's something that we have been talking about in all the previous investor con calls that we have actually had. So it was for that related CapEx that we have done.

Sir, I again missed it some, my line was not -- I could not hear you out completely. Can you come again once again?

I'm saying that the long-term debt was actually taken for the CapEx that we had done for the incentives that we are receiving under PLI. So there were certain commitments that were done. If you see our investor presentation, so the greenfield plants have actually been given. If you want to even see the annual report, the greenfield plants at Vankal is one of the CapEx that we actually did apart from a few brownfield CapEx that we did at Gonde for the spray drying plant, for the cold room, for the frozen food factory and all those things. So all of it is part of that PLI, apart from which non-PLI investments was the tomato processing plant that actually was commissioned around November of 2024 as such. So all the CapEx was actually a part of the INR 50 crore long-term loan that you actually see.

Okay. And last point is, sir, then what is precisely our cost of fund. And I'm just trying to make sense that we paid INR 58 crores as the finance cost on a consolidated basis for March '25. This year would be I think so on the lower side since 9-month number is INR 36 crores. So are other factors also that has been embedded in this finance cost, any bank charges or something more than the working capital and the long-term finance cost that is being embedded in this number, INR 58 crores.

Yes, the bank charges, whatever is a part of that is actually a part of this interest cost.

Yes, entire bank-related cost, everything comes in this.

Sir, what is the blended cost of fund then and our current rating?

Current rating is BBB as per the CRISIL. And the current interest range is around 9.2% to 9.8% range.

And when is this rating due, sir?

April.

April '26?

Yes. Yes, sir, after the financial year.

To have better understanding post the call, sir, is there any window or medium by which we can have an interaction going ahead, where do...

You just write a mail to us, we'll be happy to respond.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Natasha Singh, an individual investor.

Sir, I have couple of questions. One is that recently that you have prod into Hong Kong, Finland and the Gulf region, which of these geographies is showing the...

Not clear. Can you probably speak in a phone directly, maybe I don't know whether you're using a speaker or something or a earphone.

Am I clear now?

Yes, please come closer to this mic if you are using your mobile phone or your headset.

I'm using my phone and which is on my ear.

Now it is better.

It's better.

Yes. So I was saying, so recently, you have gone to the international market where you have prod into Hong Kong, Finland and the gulf reason, which of the geographies is showing the strongest initial traction for your B2C brands like Greentop and Madhu?

As of now, if you ask me, I think we are doing quite well in Russia.

Okay.

Middle Eas has also...

Middle East just started, but it will take some more time. Hong Kong is steady. It's a steady growth, not a big growth. But yes, we launched our product. We got the repeat order. It's multiplied by 2x, but since the base is low, so it may not be a quite substantial figure. But we're expecting that Hong Kong likely to be more in near future. We have added new products. But our B2C, Russia is doing quite well now. And soon, we may start in U.S. also our B2C product in, it's a Recart pack. So I think I must say that -- Natasha that Tetra Recart is something is giving a very encouraging visibility for the company, not only in our own brand, but as well as a private level from U.S.A. customer, from Russian customers, from Europe customers. So we see a good opportunity in near future.

Sir, recently, your Pectin has been approved by the large MNC. So what is the current status of converting these approvals into commercial contracts? And what portion of the INR 15 crore revenue potential is expected to be realized in financial year '26?

Yes, it's a good question. Last call also, we told that we have submitted our sample and that sample is getting tested at their site because it's a long process. As you know, this is -- this product is used in their processing very minimal quantity. So unless they complete the consumer testing, we may not be able to start the commercial supply. So as of now, we -- from the -- only couple of customers, we have some visibility that in the month of March, we may get some commercial order. But major customers are likely to come from the Q1 of next year. So it's a long process. It's almost 6 to 7 months process before we get the final order. So that's the concern. But this year may not be substantial sale, I mean, revenue in our kitty. But next year onwards, we are expecting that at least 70%, 75% of our capacity we can be able to utilize.

Okay. And sir, in the last quarter, the financial year '26, your volume growth was 35% and the addition of 2 airline customers has been done. So what is the current capacity utilization for the frozen lines at Sinnar and Vankal?

I must say -- now Vankal is a vegetable processing. Whenever vegetables are available, it's 100%. If vegetable is not available, we are unable to run. But since we have installed Vankal vegetable processing, utilized more than 65% to 70% and we expect that it will likely to grow. And snacks line in Nashik and Indian bread, snacks and some of the part of the vegetable in Nashik facility is fully running. In fact, we are -- I mean, I must say we have larger order than our capacity. So that's why we are running 3 shifts now, night shifts also working. So it's a very good moment for the frozen. And whatever report we are having and statistical report as well as customer feedback, we strongly believe this segment is likely to grow in the same pace for the next 3 to 4 years across the world. So as a company, I think we must very seriously look in this sector and continue to grow. And wherever we need to do tweaking of the capacity, we are looking into it as a short term, as a long term. Short term and long term, both, we are looking how to increase the capacity to fulfill the commitment.

Okay. And sir, the last time we spoke about the tomato pulping, right? And because of some delay in tomato crop because of the seasonal factor. So how long this delay will impact your ability to meet the -- more than the doubling of your market share?

Yes. Yes, we said doubling the -- not market -- our capacity, we'll be able to -- I mean targeted double, but unlikely this year, we'll be able to do because already crop delayed. And then as of now, we have started getting whatever is our per day requirement. And we hope to continue the same thing till April. If -- being agricultural commodities, we do not know. But we are quite hopeful that till April, we'll be getting the same pace. If we able to produce till April at the full capacity, which you are doing currently, I believe that we can able to recover substantially. As of today, we may not be able to tell you how much we'll be able to do, but substantially we have to cover.

The next question comes from the line of Kaushal Sharma from Equinox Capital Venture Private Limited.

Just one follow-up on our borrowings. Like you said that currently, we are having INR 410 crores of short-term borrowings. And as compared to the March, we have around INR 362 crores short-term borrowings. And the Totapuri prices has fallen significantly and you have mentioned in Q1 financial '26 that the working capital requirement should be less. So I just want to know why the inventory is being increased or why the borrowings have increased in that form?

As you know, we are more focusing on non-mango business. Non-mango business means we are focusing on guava, tomato is a big bit, then chili, garlic, ginger, these are all seasonal. During the season, we have to produce. And that same stocks we need to hold for all of for next -- average next 6, 7 months and other than mango. So as we produce, we need to have the stock built up, we need to have the working capital requirement. So this scenario is going to continue as and when we are diversifying our business other than Mango. If there's a mango, then there's a clear graph that between April to July, maximum utilization, then from October onwards, working capital block is likely to reduce. But if you add more non-mango business, then definitely, you need more fund to produce during the season period and as an when call up take place. So I believe that this cycle will be much more clear to all -- everybody in 2 years' time when we have a multiproduct in our kitty. So at that time, we have a very clear picture that we are producing season and then selling and again recovering. So you have more visibility. As of today, as you rightly said, it is a little confusing when you are telling one way that mango price has reduced, other way, working capital has increased. This is basically for the non-mango business product.

What amount of non-mango inventory do we have currently, overall [Technical Difficulty] as of December 2025?

As of today, we are around 26% non-mango, 74% mango. But our objective is that how soon we can do mango 60%, non-mango 40%. We are all working in that direction.

Still, sir, around visibility of inventory coming from the mango and the price has been reduced significantly from, 33%, this has been corrected, and suddenly just grow or grew 11%. So if there I guess painful business, I don't know why...

No. You know, being a -- on multiple calls, we have communicated that mango production in the month of mid-April to July. Okay, so I'm giving an example. In the -- we have produced mango in the year 2024 when the price is on higher side. And that stock till we are carrying forward because as per the order of Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, it is likely to be completed by the month of June, because it's a 21 months to 24 months contract. So we are still carrying forward their stocks, which is to be built at 2024 agreed price. Now unless that product is fully sold, you will be seeing the inventory valuation not in -- 100% not in lower value. Some of the products are lying at higher value of 2024 and balance in 2025 mango, which is a lower value. That's why you are seeing this mismatch. And such...

So in the next year, we're are sensing a -- yes, next blockage is the working capital, right?

Pardon, sir, I could not hear you.

In the next year, like as you said that the inventory you are carrying forward, 2024, so now these are on a higher price, but in the next year, we have the lower price of inventory, so the market would be...

Yes, some lower price, but mango season to start in the month of April, we do not know how the price looks like. As of today, it looks a good crop. But if the price goes up, again, there will be inventory or high valuation. So this cyclical effect is always there in our business.

So this is not a peak that we have currently, it may rise in future as well, as you said.

Yes, yes, yes, it may rise, sir. But yes, I think this quarter, we believe that till June, there's a good summer expected as per various reports we are getting from brands like Coca-Cola, PepsiCo and even Unilever. If that is so, then I think we can see a very good sales till June, that will give a substantial reduction in our working capital blockage as the stock moves out.

The next question comes from the line of Kaushal Shah, an individual investor, plesae go ahead. Mr. Kaushal, please go ahead. Mr. Shah, are you there on the line. Mr. Kaushal Shah, are you there? We'll take the next question from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co.

Yes, Sir. Sir -- Hello?

Yes.

My question is pertaining to the Pectin project and the Tetra Recart project. So if you could just explain to us how much have we invested in these 2 verticals, and what has been the contribution for 9 months? And going ahead, what are the growth pillars for these 2 segments?

Okay. So with respect to the investments, basically, the Pectin project is around INR 12 crores to INR 13 crores of investment that we have actually done. And with respect to the Tetra Recart, basically, it's a INR 30 crore investment that we did broken up into INR 24 crores for the equipment and the balance INR 6 crores for the infrastructure that we built. But the infrastructure is such that it can house 3 more machines of the same kind as such. But having said that, the capacity utilization in Tetra Recart is very low as of now. In the 9 months, we would have reached around INR 4 crores to INR 5 crores of revenue as we speak. But a lot of things are happening, and we are hopeful that we might be able to do better in the coming quarters. But till -- in the 9 months, the actual figure is around INR 5-plus-odd crores is what the number is for the Tetra Recart. With respect to the Pectin, as we have already said during the call, this year was actually wherein we submitted our actual production to all these large brands who had already accepted our lab run test. And till the point of time, they don't make formulation changes, it is not going to translate into commercial revenue for us. But we are hopeful that it should happen in FY '27. So in terms of revenue, it is nothing to speak about with respect to Pectin.

But if you could just give us some color on the type of potential because in your opportunity column, you have mentioned about it is Pectin, will be -- its considered as one of the safest food additives. So if you could just give us some color what is our -- the optimal capacity that we will be running the plant and taking that into account once the approvals are received, what kind of revenue this unit can exhibit?

So with a discount to the import parity prices, basically, Pectin is actually INR 350 crores to INR 400 crores market in India as we speak and 95% of it is actually imported. And basically, if we were to run our Pectin plant on a single run basis, then we can generate around INR 15 crores of revenue. But that INR 15 crores would be actually split into 50-50, wherein we will be consolidating only 50% of it because it's a joint venture per se. So on a single shift basis, it can do around INR 15 crores of revenue to answer your question. But it's a highly scalable business basically because we have more than enough raw materials for Pectin as compared to the plant sites that we have put up initially.

I just would like to highlight one point. I understand the repeated question on the Pectin because we are talking on this project for a long time. Sir, these are the -- product is very high-end product. It's not just like a commodity. It's something that, as I just -- before that, I was talking to in this forum that to produce, say, 1,000 liter of juice, this Pectin may require only, say, 10 kg. So you can understand if anything goes wrong with the product, the 1,000-liter product goes wrong. So that's why whenever any change required at the customer end, they will not just change in a month or 2 or 3. They will carry the product, they will do the trial, they will do the consumer testing. And then only brand will change for a new ingredients. So that's the reason it's taking more time. But once it is established, as I told you, the high-end product, once it is approved by any vendor, then quickly, they don't change unless there's a substantial commercial benefit to the brands. So we are very, very confident, though it's taking time, but this is a game changer for us because waste to wealth, what is talking everybody, and we are also in the similar line. Today, we cannot show the revenue generation because it's taking time. But in near future, you will be able to see a significant margin or EBITDA benefit for this product as well as, I mean, good benefits on an overall basis. So that's why we are very hopeful and we believe that it's a very good platform for us to present us to the world market on the circular economy.

Right, sir. And sir, on the Tetra Recart part, sir, if you could just explain to us. There, sir, we are only doing these boxes? Or can you explain what is the scope of work exactly in this part and we are doing B2B business here in this vertical?

Okay. I will give a -- sorry, I may take a little time to explain you since you are asking. So Tetra Recart, basically a new generation packaging solution alternative to can. We all know in the market, can product available, okay, [indiscernible] or some other products, everything is available. Now over a period of time, world is trying to get out from the can business. The reason is that it is high probability when you open the can, foreign particle go into the product from the tin. So can discard after usage is a big challenge across the world. So Tetra Pak has come with a solution, it's a Tetra Recart, it has similar shelf life, but retention of color and the product test is much, much better than can. Now in worldwide, this concept is very well accepted. U.S. is having almost 6 machines. Argentina is having 7, 8 machines like that. And recently, Sri Lanka also launched -- installed one more machine. Now India only bought it and we have tried to work with the many brands. But I think awareness about this whole packaging is taking time. Tetra Pak also jointly working. Meantime, we have changed our focus from India market to export market, where we are seeing that export market already very well aware about this product and easily acceptability. So we are able to gather a momentum, which was temporarily paused since we are focusing on domestic market. Now we are getting good traction. We got a large order from U.S. customer. And we are also getting good order from Russia. We are already started repeating order in Europe. Now your question is whether it's a B2B or B2C. If you tell me it's a private level, so likely to be to B2B for the export market, but we are also trying to explore in B2C in India market, which may be a little slow pace, but first, we want to gather our momentum in export market so that we can quickly recover the revenue loss, whatever has happened earlier, we can able to recover.

And sir, what have been the revenue booking and how much revenue we have booked as of now? Is it in very nascent stage?

Yes, I think Mr. Anand has told it's around INR 5 crores so far. And next year onwards, we are expecting that it can be 5, 6x of current volume.

Okay. And sir, just to add to it, the scope of work is only the job work type that we will be doing sourcing the material and doing the packaging and the labeling or what is the exact source -- scope of work in this packaging?

We are not doing any job work, sir. Everything is under contract manufacturing for B2B. So it's not a job work. We do not do any job work. So we have to buy -- recipe is ours, raw material is ours. Everything is ours. And then we'll be manufacturing for them and in their -- in customer level in the export market likely to sell. For domestic market is, yes, we are looking our own brand.

So there will be 2 types of billing. First is on the material sourcing to the finished product margins and then the packaging part. So that is what the understanding should be.

Yes, yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Okay, sir. And sir, lastly, on the frozen food and the spray drying part of the story also, therein also the similar conceptualization is there, sir, when we look at your -- the frozen food part, it is the sourcing of [Foreign Language] how -- if you could just explain to us these 2 verticals also and the scope that we have currently, I think so in the spray drying, you have mentioned about a capacity of 1,100 metric tons. So if you could just explain these 2 verticals also?

Okay. Frozen food is B2B, similar kind of thing. We are -- since 1993, we are in frozen food business. So we are doing private label for export market. initially started with U.K., but now it has expanded to across the globe, like U.S. is a big business. Canada is quite a big business. In Australia, we have started. Now we are starting Gulf countries also. So it's a pure B2B business. And in India, we have started our own brand called Greentop, but not in a big way. We have started. We are geography -- small, small geography we are considering and trying to concentrating our products in that geography. So it will take a lot of time. But export market is growing in a phenomenal place. So it will be a B2B segment. And spray drying, spray drying 100% B2B because this is not a final product. This is an ingredient for seasoning. Like any confectionery or any snack industry, you -- they need the seasoning. Seasoning basically, I'm sure you are having a lot of potato chips. On the potato chips, there is -- on the top, there will be a dressing, powder type product like Lay's potato chips or Balaji. So that dressing is our product. And our product goes for making the seasoning. So it's 100% B2B.

And here, sir, you have mentioned about robust capacity in place. So currently, what is the contribution from this segment? And how -- when are we expecting to scale up our optimum use of the capacity?

For the -- spray drying is 100% capacity we are using. And we are -- as we mentioned in the investor note, we are expanding our capacity by 120 metric tonne in a year. Construction has already started and likely to complete in another 9 months period. We are going in a slow pace, but we are under discussion and with a strategic -- some kind of strategic relationship, we are also trying to do with some customers for the further bigger expansion. So it is a small expansion. We are doing it. And if everything goes smooth, then in future, we may go for a bigger expansion in this sector.

Okay. And we are -- if you could just mention the name of some of the clients. We are doing business with big giants like ITC also, they are also big into this food and all category where you have mentioned...

Major clients for -- is the PepsiCo for their Lay's, we are supplying. We are also supplying to Unilever for some of their products. We are supplying to ITC. We are supplying to Dabur, Nestle. So a lot of customers. I mean most of the MNCs are -- our customer base, if you see, most of the customers are from MNCs. That's a good part of us. In fact, if you see our revenue, 65% of revenue comes from almost 12 MNC companies.

Okay, sir. And sir, can you give me a peer comparison also in the space wherein we can look at the margin comparison and the business profile?

Very difficult because...

So the only listed company which is actually there in this space is basically Jain Irrigation, but they have a subsidiary of that company, which is called a Jain Farm Fresh. As far as I understand, they are expected to actually list that company separately is what they have actually indicated in the recent investor call and all those things which have happened. But there is no direct numbers that you can actually get from them.

Because the product basket are different for everyone. So that's the difficulty.

Okay. Thank you for all the elaborate answers. Sir, our answers are being addressed by Mr. Anand, our CFO; and Mr. Moloy, the Chief Executive Officer...

Also was there. He was also contributing as -- so 3 of us on the call.

It's a team that works at Foods and Inns. So whether I'm silent, there are people who have to play the silent role as well. But when they are doing well, why bother them.

No, sir. I'm new to the team. So...

He was right, yes, because it was quite an elaborate thing. They have already replied, but as and when I'm always available.

No, sir, thank you for the elaborate answer today. We'd dig deeper and get further understanding and we'll get back to the team in case of any further. All the best sir. Thank you, sir, and please do continue with the call, so that we get an opportunity to participate.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing remarks.

Thank you so much, guys, for all the questions that you guys actually put forth. I mean we might not have been able to answer all questions basically because some due to competitive reasons, some due to certain reasons at the operational level as such. But having said that, your continued support is of great value to us, and we hope that you will continue supporting us, and we'll hopefully deliver value to you pretty soon. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Arihant Capital Markets Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

Thank you.