Franco-Nevada Corporation (FNV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to Franco-Nevada's Investor Day. We thank you for attending in person, and we welcome those joining us on the webcast. My name is Candida Hayden, and I'm the Senior Analyst, Investor Relations at Franco-Nevada. I'm pleased to introduce our speakers for today's presentation. From Franco-Nevada, we have Paul Brink, President and CEO; Sandip Rana, Chief Financial Officer; Eaun Gray, Chief Investment Officer; Jason O'Connell, Senior Vice President, Diversified. A special welcome to our guest speakers, our partners in the mine operations. Tony Makuch, President and CEO of Discovery Silver; Louis-Pierre Gignac, President and CEO of G Mining Ventures; Ryan King, Senior Vice President, Corporate Development and Investor Relations at Calibre Mining; and Chris Stackhouse, Chief Financial Officer at SolGold. A few housekeeping items. [Operator Instructions] questions will be taken in person and via the webcast at the end of the presentation. I would now like to welcome Paul Brink, President and CEO of Franco-Nevada to the podium. Thank you.

Thank you, Candida, and welcome, everyone. It's very nice to see so many of you in person. Well, our aim today to get everything done in 2 hours. And then at the back of that, we've got some refreshments. We'd love to chat with you after the event. Please heed the cautionary statement. We will be making some forward-looking statements during the presentation. I will start and give an overview of our strategy and our business. Eaun will go next and cover our business development strategy. And then prime time is -- will be our partners. I told them this is like the football game that they are the halftime show. They're the real reason that the audience is here today. After that, Jason will cover our diversified strategy. Sandip will finish off with our capital allocation, our guidance and our outlook. We aspire to be the go-to gold stock. There are 2 objectives that we see in getting ourselves there. And the first is grow cash flow and NAV per share. And the emphasis there is on per share. We're not in this just to get bigger. What we want to make sure is every single deal that we do, we're adding value to the stock. Second part of that is achieve a premium multiple. And there are a lot of elements to that, quality assets, good tenure, stable cash flows, long duration, diversified portfolio, good countries. But the #1 thing we think in achieving a premium is making profitable investments. So not just collecting assets but making investments that generate real returns for investors. How do we do that? The key way we think about it is, number one, make sure you get your money back and that is having strong technical teams, being able to look at assets, figure out what is economic, what will give us a return on our capital, making sure when we do our deals that we've got good tenure. And the second part of it is how do you make a multiple of your money over time. And that's picking the assets that expose you to that great optionality. None of us can see under the ground. We ultimately don't know how much is there but it's figuring out what are the conditions that put you in a position to get lucky, and we have gotten lucky at Franco multiple times. So what makes Franco-Nevada different? The first thing to us is ownership. Management and the Board owns more than $200 million of stock, far more than any of our competitors. We think that is the ultimate discipline that keeps us focused on making sure that anything we do is adding value to the share price, not just making the company bigger. The second is financial flexibility. And it's how we think about our balance sheet. A lot of folks say to us, why don't you lever up the company. Debt is a lower cost of capital, you can get better returns that way. That's not our approach. We put more importance on financial flexibility than we do on cost of capital. What we found over time, the industry is highly cyclical. There are points in the cycle where the industry really needs capital, that's where you get your best deals done. For us, that's happened twice. The first was 2008 financial crisis. We had the capital available. We made some super investments. Palmarejo-Guadalupe was one of those. The second time it happened was 2015, 2016, China slowed down. Many of the diversifieds were caught offside with their balance sheet. We were able to get stakes in terrific assets, Candelaria, Antamina, Antapaccay. That all came about because of the way Sandip manages the balance sheet, and we had the capital available to take advantage of that. Next up is being adaptable on our investment style. The only thing we're certain about in the resource sector is it's highly cyclical. We don't know when commodities are going to go up and down. We know for sure, they will go up and down. And what that brings is different capital needs for our partners. We love gold royalties and streams, but we don't want to run around with a hammer looking for a nail. We're capital providers to the industry. So we work with the operators when they got a capital need to say how can we help, we're flexible in how we think about the capital that we provide. That same approach applies to diversification. And while our focus is always if there are great gold deals to do, that's always our top priority. But we don't want to be dogmatic about it. And there are times when it's too expensive to do gold deals or they're just not a lot of gold deals to be done, and that's where our diversified strategy comes in. We don't have to be in any diversified commodities, but as you go through the cycles, you sometimes get opportunities to invest in great assets at a really good entry point and we found we can generate even more value for shareholders by being adaptable. Last is asset selection. We work in the mining industry. It's littered with people who've lost money, you have to have strong technical skills. I think so much of an advantage of our model is in any deal that we look at, we're doing detailed due diligence. It starts with a request to say, send over the drill hole database, send over the block model. That's for our own view of that, that technical strength is what helps us with the asset selection. In terms of ESG, we've got a very simple approach. And number one, that is to say, invest in assets and operations that treat their work as well, that treat their communities well and treat the environment well. We also work with operators and their communities to find projects where we can contribute ourselves to help build the social license at those different operations. Governance, I've already mentioned ownership. The key thing to us in terms of shareholder alignment is owning a lot of stock. And the last one I'll comment on is our own workforce. We aspire to be a good employer, an inclusive employer. You'll have a chance to meet a number of our employees afterwards. So I hope that you'll get the same sense after speaking to them. We're delighted that the rating agencies recognize our achievements. We get top marks by all the major agencies. Prime, MSCI and in particular, we're the top-rated gold company globally by Sustainalytics. We're delighted that all our efforts have been reflected in our share price performance since our IPO. And to put it in context, a reminder for those of you who weren't there at the time, the end of 2007 when we did our IPO, the issue price was $15.20. Our major competitor, Silver Wheaton at the time, their share price was $17. So effectively the same number. Wheaton has done very well. Their share price today is about $75 a share. That's 4.5x over that period. Royal Gold, our other competitor, a very similar rate of return to that. They've both done well. Franco-Nevada stock is $155. That's more than a 10x return during that same period. We're very proud of that achievement. That compounded rate of return, around 15%, outstrips any major benchmark, whether it's the Nasdaq or the high-flying tech stocks, the S&P 500, gold over the same period has returned about 7% per annum. One of the key things that helps drive that is what I think is so unique about our business is that we've got exposure both to a very large royalty portfolio as well as to our streams, and I'll speak a bit about both. First up, in terms of the royalties, most of the royalties that we have are on gold assets. We all know gold is precious. At a 1 gram per tonne open pit, that's 1 [indiscernible] per million. It's expensive to drill that out. So the industry really drills out more than 10 or 12 years of reserves ahead of it. But as you mine deeper, often, you reveal ore bodies that are larger and sometimes far larger, 10x larger, 100x larger. We've been extremely fortunate at Franco-Nevada, the original Goldstrike investment -- Sandip's very conservative how he shows these numbers here. I like to just speak about the money we put in and the total revenues we can make over time. He's presenting the value of our investment and then the after-tax value of it today on a discounted basis. But even then, for Goldstrike, the value of it today is 500x that initial investment. Detour, 250x. You can see the list of them. Even a recent investment that we've made, the royalty that we have on Equinox's Greenstone Mine, the value of it today is 30x what it was when we bought it 6, 7 years ago. Other side of our business is streaming. You can have streams on gold and silver mines. We do have some that have done terrifically well. Guadalupe-Palmarejo is one that I have up there, exposing you to that incredible optionality. Many of the other ones and the big ones, so often are in big copper mines. Copper is a much more massive mineral. It's far bigger deposits, far easier to drill them up. Quite often, you can draw up 30 years of reserves, 40, 50 years of resources. They're fantastic assets in terms of when we make those investments that we can say, we know Franco-Nevada is in business for the next 50 years, 70 years, will be in business with positive cash flows. You don't get the same optionality. You're not going to make the same multiple on your money on a big copper deposit as you can on those gold deposits. But that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of upside. And you'll see whether it's Candelaria, Antapaccay, Antamina, the value today of those investments is more than a double from the time that we made those. A great example is Candelaria. Mine was built by Freeport and had operated for 20 years when Lundin bought it 10 years ago. At the time, the go-forward mine life was 14 years, and we thought we'd get a good return on that. If you look at their life of mine plans today, it's 10 years later, the life of mine plan goes out another 25 years. So that 14 years has become 35 years in that time span. So these stream assets expose you to that same geological optionality and drive a lot of our upside. As I said before, the only thing you can be certain of in resource markets is they're cyclical. And as we go through the cycles, they generate different types of opportunities. And so our investment style has been flexible, and that really has opened up a lot of different avenues for us to participate in different types of financing. We've done M&A type deals, recapitalizations, project financings, we've financed exploration projects. All of that comes from being flexible and always being open to what is the next avenue for growth. And we think there is a new avenue for growth. And it really comes from a theme that we're also familiar with. 15 years ago, 20 years ago, most of the capital allocation in our industry, in the gold industry was done by the gold funds. Today, there are far fewer gold funds. Those that remain have less capital than they had. And so it's left a void, and you see that in terms of a lack of capital at the junior end of the market and also highly discounted valuations at the junior end of the market. So we see a real role that we can play in that in finding the good assets, finding the good teams and being a financial backer to those teams. And not just doing that on a transactional basis where it's a single financing. But saying to those companies, we want to back them for the full journey. And we want the market to know that we are their financial backer. We think that can really help differentiate those companies. And in a sense, make our own luck. By doing that, I think on the equity, you can get tremendous returns. And we've got some of our partners here today, and they'll be telling you the stories. And I hope all of that will ring true. Last thing that I'm going to comment on is Cobre Panama. And I am extremely encouraged by the direction of travel for the potential restart of Cobre Panama. President Mulino, first item on his agenda was deal with his pension reform, that has now been completed. He said the next thing he'd like to deal with his potential reopening of the mine. He had put a date on it. He said to his government, he would like to start that internal dialogue on March 24. So that was yesterday. You've seen already announcements to say he is open to allow the shipping of the concentrate, restart of the power plant. There are discussions with First Quantum on suspending their arbitration. So that is all moving in the right direction. More importantly, though, and fundamentally, the issue in Panama is less so the government and more public opinion about the mine. And what really is important is that opinion is moving in the right direction. After the protest, the polling was showing 70% to 80% of people were against the mine. That has shifted meaningfully over the last 12, 18 months. The polls earlier this year were showing a small majority and now open to mining in some form in the country. There's a more recent poll of the communities right adjacent to the mine. 95% of the communities said that they would like to see the mine restarted. And you've also had a -- got a domestic constituency that are now coming forward and being more vocal. You had the contractors to the mine, 130 of them wrote a letter to Mulino saying they were losing a huge amount of revenue each year, that they have more than 50,000 employees that they've had to lay off as a result of this and they'd like a discussion. Mulino responded. He was sympathetic. He acknowledged it's a big issue, and he said that he will be doing something about it. So I'm very confident that we will see discussions this year between First Quantum and the government on the potential opening of Cobre Panama. That concludes my comments, and so I'm going to hand over to Eaun, who's going to speak about business development.

Thank you, Paul. Very excited to be here after a very busy last 12 months of deal making within the business development team at Franco-Nevada. In terms of how we approach deals, we're focused on driving returns for shareholders by exposing them to optionality. I think Paul covered this pretty well. We do that while at the same time seeking to mitigate the risks associated with transactions. We seek out optionality. We seek it out in terms of resources where we think they can grow, assets where production rates can increase, but also finding assets with long duration where we can enjoy many commodity price cycles. As we know, markets can be very cyclical. As we saw earlier, our track record doing this has been fantastic. If you go back to the days of Goldstrike or Detour, identifying that long-term potential on assets is something that I think we've done particularly well. With our large transactions over the last year, I think we've employed this strategy again, whether it's with Yanacocha, Timmins, Cascabel or Sibanye, I really think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg in terms of what we're modeling now. We seek to identify characteristics in these assets where production can increase pretty significantly over time. And that's how we see real returns being generated. With each of those, we've noted that initial IRR can be very flawed. On day 1, we see transactions get announced. And likewise, we model returns ourselves. There are so many things that change. So those qualitative metrics that identify what has potential to grow, what has the potential to do better over time are core to us making decisions. I would highlight that for the analyst community. A good case in point, which I'll touch on in a moment is our investment, just move the slide there, in Magino. Magino, we acquired 2 royalties there. We have a 3% NSR initially with Argonaut, it looked like a fairly modest rate of return. But already, we're seeing with Alamos now our estimates, average rate of return is probably quadrupled given the plans for the asset. So to make these types of decisions, we need to harness the bench strength that we have within the team. We have a number of them here today and I encourage you to meet with our management team. We have a technical group that has very, very strong skills in the area, years and years of experience, but also on the Board. Our Board includes many industry veterans that provide fantastic input into our decision-making. They really help us to pick the winners as we're making investments. We've seen, as we participate in processes opposite our competitors, they'll often give away optionality on the cheap. It's not something we ever seek to do. We see the value in it, and we seek to expose ourselves to it wherever we can. But in order to harness that, what we really need to do is maintain tenure on an asset, as Paul indicated. And there are a lot of ways to do that. We often seek security when we're acquiring a stream or royalty, we'll look for guarantees of various types. But not only that, you have to find the assets that have good margins that will produce throughout the cycle and those that have the license to operate within the country and community. And that's really how you maintain tenure over time. Recently, there's been a lot made about parent guarantees, and to be honest, it puzzles me a little bit. Really, we've seen fantastic benefit from either taking hard asset level security or getting guarantees down the chain, we're actually closer to the asset. That lets you get ahead of corporate debt in a lot of cases. But as is the case in Cobre Panama, which I think we've all seen the direction of travel improved pretty significantly. It actually lets us litigate an arbitration directly opposite the government of Panama. And with the positive rumblings we hear down there, I think you probably all agree, having the stream be able to survive, which that gives us a better shot at is far superior than to parent guarantee, where we'd probably just be asking for our money back at some distant point in the future. So that's key to us maintaining tenure wherever we can. Now I spoke about arbitration, maybe I can expand on that a little bit. Often, the best assets are located in developing countries. And in order to participate in the financing of those types of assets, we seek as a criteria international arbitration wherever we can get it. Chris Stackhouse will be up in a moment to chat about SolGold and Ecuador. But as an example, the various funding stage gates for SolGold are linked directly to international arbitration. What we're seeking to do there is to make sure -- maintain the tenure to the asset so that we can enjoy cash flows for many decades to come. Now moving on I'll chat a little bit about one of our recent transactions where we've put this strategy to work, and that was with Sibanye. We acquired a $500 million stream from Sibanye, it closed in February. Although this stream is with reference to the Western Limb platinum mining operations, roughly 70% of the value is derived from gold with the balance being platinum. The assets here are fantastic. They have large resources, well in excess of reserves and the reserves alone provide a very long mine life. Not only that, but the basket of commodities is quite diverse. I think it's very important when you look at any of the PGM operations, you have to look at the basket of commodities. Here, you have things like rhodium, ruthenium, chromium, you don't see in all the deposits and that provides us great -- a great deal of comfort in the margins over time, which helped us make this investment. Now the operator, Sibanye. Sibanye, they have their boots on the ground in South Africa. They've done a great job. What they've done here is they've rolled up 3 mining complexes, historical mining complexes. And so what they have now benefits from fantastic infrastructure and synergies. They have a smelter. They have great access to water. These are things that not all of the projects in the area have. And you have to be careful when you look at a number of investments in the Bushveld to make sure they have access to those key requirements for production. Now overall, what this does is it puts us in the middle of the cost curve in our view for these operations, especially once the K4 shaft fully ramps up over the next year or so. That's one of the newest shafts in the area to ramp up. So overall, we expect many years of cash flow to come from this operation, and it actually balances out some of the other transactions we did over the last year very well. Yanacocha being one of those, where we have a medium-term growth profile. So the Yanacocha royalty acquisition we did in August of last year. It's already exceeding our expectations. We're very happy to see, in Newmont's recently quarterly call, Tom Palmer talk about the fact that they've produced 40 million ounces to date, but they're not even halfway there yet. And when you look at the resource endowment that they have, and from the benefit of due diligence, which we had making the transaction, the exploration upside, I think he's right. A 22-year reserve life is what they've highlighted in their last presentation for the sulfides and that provides roughly about 0.5 million ounces a year for the first several years. Coincidentally, that's roughly what we expect in the course of 2025. We were very pleasantly surprised to see production guidance for this year be increased to 460,000 ounces. That's well above production last year and the year before as guidance. So we're certainly quite pleased with the direction of travel on that particular investment. Now at some point, the sulfides project needs to be developed to maintain production. And we take great comfort from the fact that Newmont is advancing with their water treatment projects in the area. That really is key to the license to operate with communities. And for the sulfides project to get built, they really have to maintain that license to operate. There are also 2 fantastic projects on this property package besides the sulfides project. And that is Cerro Quilish, which is probably one of the best gold oxide projects in Latin America and Minas Conga, a fantastic copper-gold porphyry. So we see great potential here to exceed expectations decades into the future. I've touched on Magino already and really would like to congratulate Alamos on this fantastic acquisition. It didn't surprise us that much when Alamos started talking about a mill expansion to up to 20,000 tonnes per day. When we looked at it, we saw a fantastic mineralized envelope at the deposit. And we thought, jeez, that would really work well for a larger bulk tonnage operation, especially if you could unlock some of the synergies in the area. So we've been fantastically pleased to see that take place. And we believe there will be decades to come from Magino in terms of cash flows. Sticking with Ontario, one of the transactions I'm proudest of was our recent transaction with Tony Makuch here in the front row and Discovery Silver. The acquisition of the Porcupine complex from Newmont is an example of us using kind of the one-stop shop that Paul talked about, where similar to what we did with GMIN and Louis-Pierre, we brought to bear a royalty, a loan and equity. This provided a runway for Tony and will continue to do so into the future. By having a flexible financing structure that doesn't take too much and provides a patient approach to how the assets can be revitalized. We're really providing a tailwind for Tony and his plans on the assets. So with that, I'd like to welcome Tony to the stage. I'm keen. I know Tony wanted a little bit of extra time to chat about the opportunity. I love the enthusiasm and look forward to hearing more on Porcupine. Thank you, Tony.

Appreciate the opportunity to come here and present and I like to believe that definitely Franco-Nevada is a great gold investment. I know my wife was keen when I was here because I know she's a shareholder. But also, I think you're going to find out with the new discovery and what we're doing here, this is going to be a great gold investment and one that really, really works well, lots of opportunity. And really appreciating part of being able to be successful and being able to execute here, I mean, we can have a lot of good ideas, and we can understand you have some good geology, et cetera, but you do need the backing and the financial backing and support. And we needed the support from Franco-Nevada in terms of getting here and the team here. We spent a lot of nights working on the -- whether it was doing due diligence or whether it was trying to work out the business side of the transaction and dealing with the legal side. The legal side is the hard part, I guess. And what we like to do is get on with it. We're not quite closed yet. We're hoping to close on Monday and then start in April in terms of running the assets, et cetera. Price of gold $3,000 an ounce. So there's a lot of urgency -- sense of urgency there. But same time, it could end up extending to the end of April in terms of the closure. But anyway just finishing up, really appreciate this. And yes, I'll try not to -- I mean, I could talk for a lot longer. I always think about sometimes you got to think about -- and when I was in grade 9 in high school, where the teachers taught me how you got to keep your presentations long enough to cover the subject and short enough to be interesting. I won't tell you all the background to that, there's a little bit more to it. Anyway, in terms of Porcupine and it is a 100-year-old, 120-year-old mining camp. There's a lot of history. There's been over 70 million ounces mined here, and you might sit there and think, well, there's a lot of liabilities and it's all mined out. I think we can show you some things in terms of where maybe some of these liabilities are really assets and give you a sense on maybe there's not another 100 years ahead of ourselves. But I think we could see a good 40 to 50 years ahead still of mining and some significant growth here. But you -- we did complete a PEA or just a technical report that's the support what we're looking at, and we worked with the Newmont people. It was somewhat restricted to only some things we had at the time. But it does show like 285,000 ounces a year, 10 years and mining going on until 2041. And I think it's somewhat of a fairly conservative approach. The valuation was -- in terms of what we see from a valuation point of view, on the asset versus what we ended up with -- acquire the asset for, I think, a lot of opportunity for value creation. And in our industry, in terms of what we do, there's really -- maybe some people talk to -- maybe there's 4 parts of value creation. One is exploration and with the diamond drill bit. And I think that optionality you get from an exploration point of view as Paul and Eaun mentioned, we think there's some significant exploration upside and you can create new value and new value per share with diamond drilling, and we expect to be pretty aggressive on our exploration. Second aspect of what we do is like there's always talk about what is ore reserve -- is -- a definition, ore is rock that can be mined at a profit. And what we've got to do is you want to invest well and you've got to build good mines and do it the right way in order to keep your costs down and take some of these nice colored-looking rocks and turn it into ore. And so from a development point of view, capital investment into the mines, I think that's an important way we create new value, bring new NAV and NAV per share up. Third part is a standard of operation, and we talk about you got to be responsible in terms of people, environment, community where we are and have a high standard in terms of operational performance. And if we build our mines well, and we benchmark ourselves in terms of trying to be in the lower half of the unit cost curve in the industry. It is a cyclical industry, like you say, we're price takers not price makers. So we got to build good mines. We've got to operate them at a very high standard that keeps us there for a long time, but also that keeps you in the cost curve where the price of gold does go down, which I don't like to be the naysayer here. I know we're into a $3,000 gold and everybody is excited, but it probably will go down again. That doesn't mean nothing. That doesn't mean that we should get on a pity party. That just means that we should just continue doing what we're doing and get ready for the next cycle when it comes back up again. But we think there's significant upside in terms of what we can do. And if we execute on those 3 items, then the fourth one was always what you do from an M&A and acquisition point of view in terms of value creation. And this slide, just quickly in terms of showing what the acquisition was here from -- with Newmont, and I showed you in previous slide when -- a PEA with using consensus prices, we came up at a valuation, about $1.2 billion. And that's costing in all the costs related to liabilities and dealing with closure and on the other liabilities so -- and that's using $2,150 gold in terms of long-term gold price. If you use $2,700 gold, it's over $2 billion. So definitely the entry level, the acquisition here at $275 million upfront consideration, you can see there's lots of value to be created in terms of what we have. And also, again, in terms of having -- working with Franco-Nevada, setting ourselves up to be properly financed so that we can actually execute because it's one thing to have the potential value here, but we've got to be able to have the capital resources in order to execute and do the work. I think we have that. And maybe this slide here just shows you what are some of the -- what are the assets. And I don't think people know like Hoyle Pond mine is one -- is really one of the highest-grade gold mines in all of Canada probably. And it is a higher-grade gold mine than what Newmont has been mining in at. We think there's been there's not a lot of focus on grade control. It's -- maybe they were a little bit more focused on mining tonnage. And there's a lot of other areas within the mine that are maybe a little bit narrower, higher grade that we can -- if we come back with some traditional ways that we've been mining in the Porcupine camp, where we can bring some of these on and bring production up. And the production rate at Hoyle Pond is sitting here somewhere around 500 tonnes a day. I was a mine manager here back in the 1990s, and we had increased the production here to 1,500 tonnes a day. So we think there's upside. And actually, just getting back to optionality and again, I was thinking about what Paul was mentioning about that. In 1997, Kinross asked me to go be the manager at Hoyle Pond. And they said -- after I signed, they said, "Well, we forgot to tell you, there's only 35,000 ounces in reserves." We mined hundred -- produced 172,000 ounces that year. Since then, it's produced over 3 million ounces. And we did do the PEA today -- sorry, we presented this back in January, we did it with that PEA, it demonstrated -- what it demonstrated in terms of mine life and grade, if -- Pierre Rocque, who led that PEA for us, he did the same thing in 2006 for Goldcorp, and it had the same amount of ounces in it. So you get a sense that these things, you just got to drill, and you got to keep looking and there's a lot of upside to Hoyle Pond. Borden is -- to me, Borden is actually somewhat of an exciting thing, operation. It's a fairly new mine. It has been operated and the -- produce somewhere over 100,000 ounces a year, and it can do that for a good another 9 years based on what we what we see now. But it is a camp, a significant exploration potential. The geology is all pointing to a lot of things, and you might not have even found the ore body yet. So I think there's a lot of upside here in terms of what we can do. We have Pamour as an open pit that can produce about 140,000 ounces -- sorry, yes, about 140,000 ounces a year till at least 2041 currently. There's upside on that because we do have to do some drilling here. We think we can -- with a few things moving, some infrastructure and with some other drilling and looking at we did this all at $2,000 gold, if we look at a few things, you can have the chance to double the size of that pit. And then there's an extremely large resource at Dome that needs to be understood. And this is just what we put in our PEA. And I'm not even talking about a lot of the other assets that are in Porcupine that aren't being touched here, but -- and this was the production profile that came out of our PEA, but we think each one of Borden and Hoyle Pond can be extended in terms of mine life. We think that 100 tonnes a day at Hoyle Pond at those kind of grades is equivalent to 1,000 tonnes a day at Pamour. We do a couple of hundred tonnes -- increments, and it's the increments are they need some ventilation. It needs -- the ventilation reinvested in, it needs backfill system reinvested in, it needs some new equipment reinvested in. It's not anything technically difficult. And you need to access some of the other zones that are here, and you have the opportunity to move things forward similar at Borden. So you have the ability to grow -- to extend mine life at both of these assets, grow production at these assets and then you have things like TVZ zone that can add to this, the Dome pit that can add to this and mill capacity. So there's lots of opportunity that can be used to grow. And I think we -- we put this slide in here, we do see a sightline to production growth of over 0.5 million ounces. And that might be conservative in terms of what -- is it a stretch. It might be something good to talk about for a year 2 or 3. And then we'll be able to talk about something else. But just getting back to what I talked about, whether it was Hoyle Pond and increasing mining rate up to 1,000 tonnes a day. Borden, or we can do Pamour and bring it on the Dome. And then there's the whole refractory deposits in Timmins and there's lots of other different deposits in Timmins and the Dome resource sits almost 11 million ounces of resource here. So I know I'm probably using up all my time here, but I'll just give you some things pretty quickly here when you get to see this is sort of the Hoyle Pond mine and trying to show you what's at Hoyle Pond. And then you put in things like the TVZ zone, which sits here as a refractory deposit, sitting here at anywhere from 2.5 million to 4 million to 7 million ounces. You have -- the current deposits continues to extend at depth. At Hoyle Pond itself -- like Hoyle Pond mine when I -- the Hoyle Pond is 2 different deposits, the Hoyle Pond deposit and then what we call -- which was Falconbridge Gold and then there was a 1060 deposit, which was [indiscernible] gold. And the [indiscernible] gold stuff was refractories and was somewhat predictable. The Hoyle Pond was a lot of very high-grade quartz veins. And you had to drill. Sometimes they would be 5 feet in the wall, you wouldn't know they're there unless you test all. And I know that they've -- over time, they've mined less and less on the Hoyle Pond side and more and more on the [indiscernible] gold side. You want to put it that -- we go back to some of the traditional exploration things that we learned out of the Dome group. So basics on test holding and bazooka drilling and really looking around and being creative. I think we have the ability to bring a lot of new sources of production online. Then you have -- sorry, mean things are open. I mean, I mentioned about the whole concept about the refractory deposits, then this here, we -- I only showed you in the slide this part here about Hoyle Pond. You have this extension that goes all the way out to Bell Creek with numerous drill results and continuous mineralization and some pretty good high-grade stuff at this elk creek, which was considered to be refractory, so we didn't attack it. And I can tell you that part of the reason when I was here back in the '90s, reason why we didn't go after a lot of the stuff as you went to the West was only because we had a 1,500-tonne-a-day mill, 1,000 tonne a day mill that we grew to 1,500 tonnes a day, and we could deliver 1,500 tonnes a day at the 14 and 18-gram material. You had a whole bunch of 7, 8-gram material. You didn't even want to bother looking at it, and it hasn't even been looked at over the last 25 years. So we think there's significant upside in terms of growing production towards this way. It is the new mine trend in Porcupine. And then there's quickly some things above Borden, which they've been mining. They really only mined along the 1 main ore zone at Borden, but we think there's a lot of geological potential and a lot of work to just do some drilling, some just flat hole drilling, some surface drilling and some for looking at repeat extensions on the whole mineralizing system. And there's a repeat extension on this system -- parallel systems that can be found as well looking down dip -- and besides going down plunge, looking down strike. And then we are somewhat excited about Pamour. A number of reasons, I mean, there's an existing pit at Pamour, the current pit that we have at is going to be somewhere around in here -- sorry, maybe I should bring this out. So the current pit that we're going to have sits in here. There's ways to extend the pit if we move a highway. There's a rail line here, which is not being used, it's just a spur. We can move that. We can double the size of this pit. So there's lots of upside in terms of what can be done at Pamour. Meantime, it already has a mine life over 20 years at 140,000 ounces a year. And it is as much -- as I talk about it as being an open pit project, right. The history of the Porcupine camp in terms of what goes on here. So this is the underground at Pamour, and I'll just try to -- sorry. So over here, it's not on this section, but over here, down here is Hoyle Pond. Over here, is Hallnor, right on strike, never been explored, right? Never been looked at. It was just -- they mined a -- 1 section here at Pamour. This is from us -- from an underground exploration point of view, we think this is one of the key areas and talk to Eric. And then again, without getting too far ahead, myself, I'll show you some stuff about what's at Dome, how much further drilling -- the Dome ran for a number of years and there are 3,000 -- just pulling old stopes as they were caving and what could happen. And this is where there's significant upside. Yes, you can build a pit here, and you could -- you could build a pit here, a large pit and eventually move the mill, right? But you can also -- you can also -- excuse me, you can also do some underground here, so let me just take this off and you get a sense on the size of an open -- size of a project that's here in the greenfield site. Permitting, et cetera, is pretty much straightforward in terms of what you need to do because you're in an operating area. Anyway, I could go on with a lot of. I'm not even talking about a lot of the other potential deposits, known deposits in the camp that haven't been exploited. But I guess to show you in a nutshell in terms of what can be done in terms of value creation here and definitely a very good investment from Franco-Nevada point of view is you have optionality, a lot of future upside both in production growth and sustainable production in its existing base, significant exploration upside in terms of what needs to be done, well financed in terms of being able to execute and do that. And you're in a [ going concern ] mining camp with production capabilities and permitting already in place. So anyway, I probably took up a lot more of my time and sorry about that.

Thank you, Tony. I was thinking back, the -- I don't know how long ago it was probably a year ago now that we had our first lunch where we sat down at Motus and talked about this idea together. And what struck us at the time was just the fit, the fit between these assets and Tony's team and all that experience that you and the team have had in Ontario through your career at Kirkland Lake, with Lake Shore Gold, it was the fit that I think is the real magic in the deal. And speaking about fit and teams, the next talker is Louis-Pierre and the -- about Tocantinzinho. But as you know, so much of what G Mining is doing is in the Guiana Shield. And again, there's that fit and that history. I'm sure so many of you are familiar about the history of Cambior and how they really cut their teeth building mines in this part of the world. LP, over to you.

Thanks, Paul. Yes, we've had lots of experience in the Guiana Shield. Actually, I did my first work term as an engineering student at [indiscernible] in '97 or '98. So I guess that makes me a little older than I look. So yes, 2024 was a year of great achievements for Tocantinzinho. Obviously, we completed the construction on time and on budget. We produced our first gold in July and declared commercial production in September. So obviously, it's great to be putting a new mine online with the gold prices making all-time highs. Like it was pointed out, we want to hit the cycle, but it feels like we couldn't have hit it better. So we made our first gold sale at $2,400 an ounce, which has been the lowest gold price sale we've made to date. Our sensitivities that we did in our feasibility study, we're nowhere close to that. We had topped it up at $2,000 an ounce. So obviously, quite excited about that. So for us, a successful project execution is really based on 3 main criteria. First and foremost is safety. So throughout the full project, we had only 1 LTI, which resulted in leading industry safety statistics. We completed the project within 24 months. So it was essentially just-in-time engineering and execution and had supply chains been more efficient, we could have likely completed it sooner. So with on-time delivery that really sets us up well to deliver the project on budget for $456.9 million. So since our ramp up, it's been quite good. Process plant is operating really well. The last quarter of last year was our first full operational quarter. So we essentially achieved 80% of nameplate with gold recoveries being where we want them to be already. So obviously, the next step for us is to continue ramping it up. And we're currently employing a grade segregation strategy, so we feed high grade to the plant and stockpile lower grade as we go for the coming years. So we're guiding this year, 175,000 to 200,000 ounces of production. It's mostly skewed to the second half of the year with 56% of our output planned as we access higher grade from deeper benches and get the plant up to nameplate capacity. So the really remaining piece for us is getting plant availability where it should be, and we'll be achieving that with transitioning from our current liner system to a full metallic liners in the SAG mill. We still have a little bit of sustaining CapEx, which is really towards completing our mining fleet. So we have our third and final shovel coming in place later in the first half, which will allow us to ramp up our mining rates to achieve 77,000 tonnes per day in the second half. So even though Tocantinzinho is a young operation, we're striving for operational excellence, which starts with putting in place best-in-class technology. So we're implementing an expert control system that's going to operate in real-time, the SAG mill, making sure it's fed properly and on the flotation circuit, which will minimize variability and improve gold recoveries. So we feel like we're really, really implementing the best-in-class technology to be an efficient producer. This year, we updated our reserves. And with the drilling that we've done so far within the pit and our mining to date, we essentially replenished reserves. So we continue to have a 2 million-ounce reserve in front of us at the end of the year. And really, as we look forward now that we're generating operating cash flow, we'll be investing in exploration this year with $9 million within the regional package, which is essentially very greenfield, and we'll be keeping another $2 million surrounding the pit to drill off extensions and grow the current pit life that we have. So obviously, successful exploration will be great for all our stakeholders, including Franco-Nevada with the stream continuing to pay out over time. So obviously, TZ has been our foundational asset, this really launched us from a development stage company to a producer and now looking forward to executing on Oko West starting this year to graduate to being a multi-asset producer with a second project in Guyana. So definitely, thanks to the Franco-Nevada team for backing our journey so far to get us to where we are today.

Thank you, LP. Just to give you a sense for the level of success that the G Mining team has had and how that's being recognized in Brazil. Their next project is Oko in Guyana, but they have already lined up a third property, a property called CentroGold or Gurupi, which is also in Brazil. We actually own a small royalty on it already. But this was an asset, a good-sized gold asset that was held by Oz Minerals, ended up being BHP. When BHP saw what the GMIN team was capable of in Brazil, rather than sell them the asset, they gave them the asset. And the only thing that BHP took back in that transaction is a small royalty on that asset. But I think it's -- it really is a great indication of what people think and what they think of the ability of this team to execute. So we've spoken about one set of mining assets that have been mining for many, many decades, another new mine that's been built and has been commissioned, and the next one in our lineup is Valentine Gold. Currently in construction. Hopefully, will start producing sometime this year. Ryan, why don't you come up and tell us about it.

Excellent. Well, thank you very much, Paul, and the Franco-Nevada team. It's great to be here and give you all a bit of an update on Valentine. I will be making some forward-looking statements. I'm sure you'd be surprised if I didn't. But please do take the time to read the details on the slide or it's also available on Calibre's website. So it is a very exciting time for Calibre. We are in the midst of a merger deal with Equinox Gold that also Franco-Nevada owns royalties on. The key asset there is Greenstone in Canada. But -- and we're slightly behind Greenstone and that, as Paul mentioned, we're on the cusp of completing and finalizing construction of the Valentine Gold Mine in Newfoundland, Canada and rolling into a Q2 first gold, first ore and then the rolling out to ramping up to nameplate capacity by the end of the year. But Valentine, this is a greenfield site. So there has been no gold produced from this area before. In our view, there is a very prolific prospective exploration land package that surrounds Valentine. Here in 3 pits, we've outlined 4 million ounces of measured and indicated resources, 2.7 million ounces of reserves. Now what culminated in those reserves and resources over the past, I'd say, about 15 years is about 350,000 meters of drilling. Out of that drilling, 10% roughly of the 350,000 meters has been pure exploration drilling. So there is, as I'll talk about in the slide coming up, a tremendous opportunity for additional discoveries, resource expansion and reserve expansion. But based on the 2022 feasibility study that was completed by Marathon Gold -- and Marathon was the company that sold a total of a 3% NSR to the Franco-Nevada team here. A great deal, and I believe you actually had a royalty earlier, much earlier, seeing the exploration potential, seeing the project potential many years ago, and I think that was great foresight by the Franco team because we are in a sheer gold hosted system, an orogenic system that looks like it has a tremendous potential. Based on that 2022 feasibility study, you can see in the one line here, approximately 200,000 ounce a year production profile over the first 12 years of a 14-year reserve life. Now we believe that, that will expand converting some of those indicated and measured resources to reserves as well as the inferred material. But that's what it looked like in 2022. Now Calibre acquired Valentine in the first quarter of 2024. It was about 50% through construction. It was about approximately 60% through detailed engineering. So we have done a lot of work over the last 12 months to bring it to where it is today, bringing engineering up to 99%. Obviously, bringing the construction profile. Now we're very close to completing the final construction. But what we've also been doing along the way is quite a bit of infill or ore control drilling as we start to strip and start to mine first few benches. And what we're seeing so far in the ore control drilling, albeit as a subset of the overall reserve is that in the Leprechaun pit -- so there's 3 pits along this massive sheer system, 3 pits, the southernmost pit is Leprechaun. The middle pit is Berry, and the further pit is Marathon. So far, we have done or controlled drilling at Leprechaun as well as Marathon. And as you can see on the slide here, that ore control drilling has been very, very positive reconciliation, not only on grade, but we've also outlined more ore tonnes as well as we continue to do this 9x9 meter space ore control drilling. So Leprechaun, that has led to 30% more contained ore in approximately 8 million tonnes. And at the Marathon pit, a smaller subset of data has been collected, but when we benchmark it against the 2022 mineral reserve, we have seen a pretty substantial increase in grade. I think it's about 47% increase in grades and a 44% increase in contained ounces. I'm not saying that's going to be the case through the whole ore body, although that would be nice. But I do believe that there is some good potential as we get more data points and understand the deposit better. Calibre is fully funded through the first gold. The initial project capital, initial mine of 2.5 million tonne throughput and a 4 million-tonne mine is, as you can see there, approximately CAD 750 million, again, fully funded, and we are absolutely on budget, and we are on track for first gold in Q2. A couple of bullet points here as to where we are. The major uncertainty in building new mines a lot of times is foundations, footings, earthworks, tailings facilities and tailings facility is ready to collect water. We're on track. We're completed. Structural steel is completed, essentially mass construction for the whole site is nearing completion. So we're absolutely on track. Control room is all connected through fiber optics. So we are starting to have a communication through that fiber optics to all the different aspects of the plant. You can see CIL leach tanks, piping, electrical nearing completion. So we're now starting to hand off various subsets of the overall site to pre-commissioning and commissioning. Actually, one of the things that Calibre did when we took over the asset was we layered on some additional contractors, Reliable Controls Corporation to help us through the phase of commissioning and precommissioning. We actually brought them on about a year ago to start that process with us as we were advancing construction to have overlap. At the same time, we employed what we believe is a very strong operating team. So we wanted to have overlap with the operating team that also has commissioning experience to ensure that there was proper communication between the contractors, the construction team, aligning with the operators so that this would come together and deliver as we expect. So absolutely on track. One of the opportunities that presented itself as we are analyzing not only the due diligence, but the opportunity at the asset was the potential for additional throughput. Now the 2022 feasibility study outlined a phase 1 approach and a phase 2. Phase 1 is as we are constructing now a 2.5 million tonne throughput. Phase 2 was expected to be completed in 2029, which would take the mill from 2.5 million tonnes to 4 million tonnes. We actually have now reviewed this very closely and believe there's a better opportunity to take it to 5 million tonnes. And so we're completing detailed engineering on that. We see a tremendous opportunity there. Capital is in line with the original 2022 feasibility study in terms of dollar per tonne of -- CapEx per tonne of increase. So we will provide more details to the market as that progresses, but in a very good position to complete construction this year, see first gold this year and then bring that construction team back for 2026 to start working immediately on that phase 2 approach and potentially by as early as 2027, be up to that plus 5 million tonne throughput scenario. So more details to come on that. Now I'll talk a little bit about what we see from an exploration perspective. What we're looking at here is an aerial view of the overall concession of the Valentine Lake property. The dotted lines might be hard to see, but the 2 lines that are going through the property represent major faults or huge shear systems, so a shear-hosted gold system, orogenic. And as I mentioned, 350,000 meters of drilling, yet only 10% of that has been pure exploration. So presenting in our view, a very compelling opportunity. And just a little bit of history for you is that in 2010, 2011, Leprechaun was first discovered. It had outcrop and then Leprechaun, the pit was discovered. In, I believe it was probably, 2015, 2016, the Marathon pit a few kilometers away was discovered again following the shear system. And the team at the time felt that we've got a mine on our hands here. So let's start advancing engineering, permitting. And through the process of condemnation drilling, they discovered Berry. And so there are opportunities where we may have deposits blind under cover. In fact, Calibre did an exploration program through 2024. And in the first 10 months, we were able to discover, about 1.5 kilometers south of the Leprechaun pit, we hit some tremendous grades, some tremendous widths. You can see some of the grades and widths there. This is brand new, new discovery, exploration potential. And so the Valentine Lake shear system, approximately 30 kilometers in strike potential. So a lot of exploration upside that could come from this camp. And you look at some of the analogies or analogous types of geological systems around the world, Tony's talked a little bit about Timmins. We're talking about a scale and magnitude of -- if you look 30 kilometers across the Timmins or Porcupine [indiscernible] you would see hundreds of millions of ounces of resources and produced ounces. This is what is presented with Valentine and the opportunity in front of us. So this year, Calibre has the largest pure exploration and discovery drill program. Approximately USD 20 million we'll be investing in drilling this year. So very exciting times for the company. And as we transition from construction to production, we have not given an outlook yet in terms of cost base, in terms of additional capital, growth capital for the year or production. But we would anticipate, if you were to assume the life of mine average around 200,000 ounces a year, I think it's a safe bet to say we will be between to 100,000 ounces of production coming out of Valentine this year and a full nameplate ramp up by the end of the year. So an exciting time for the company. And I think an exciting time for Franco as they realize the value of this long-term and long-life asset in Canada. So thanks very much.

Ryan, thank you. As Ryan was talking there, I was thinking back, our Chief Gro was Kerry Sparkes, and this is 7 years ago when we had made an initial investment. And at the time, there was just the Leprechaun pit and Marathon, and Kerry had the foresight, and he also had the advantage, Kerry actually worked on the property in his early days. But when we looked at this, he said, what you've got there, Leprechaun and Marathon, is just the tip of the iceberg. He said that full structure that runs across the property is mineralized. He said it's just covered in bog. And we haven't been -- nobody was ever able to drill it properly. But when you get the infrastructure in there, when you can mobilize a proper drill program, you're going to find a whole lot more, and it's so incredible to see just how that's playing out. So for -- the last of our presenters today and it's last but not least. In fact, it probably is, of all of these properties, the biggest resource endowment. Chris, welcome up. Chris can speak about Cascabel.

Thanks, everyone. So for the final act of the halftime show, we're going to have to get some other slides up here -- or do I have to click in. That's me. So I'm Chris Stackhouse, the CFO of SolGold Plc, and we'll talk to you today a little bit about our Cascabel project. Like the other presentations, we're going to be doing some forward-looking statements here. So I urge you all to read that the fine print here as we'll be making some forward-looking statements. Okay. So the SolGold really has 2 investment cases, and we'll focus primarily today on Cascabel and I'll get into more detail on that later. But we have Cascabel, and we have -- and I'll talk less about it today, but a prolific land package that spans from the north of Ecuador, and that's what's highlighted in orange there is the country of Ecuador, all the way to the south. And I bring this up for 2 reasons. We have these 2 investment cases. And we announced a couple of weeks ago the intention to split these into 2 to make 2 separate identifiable investment vehicles. And we think that's really attractive to all of our partners and stakeholders because it creates 2 vehicles that attract the right type of capital and the right type of investors because we have a pure greenfield exploration play on a prolific land package in an emerging frontier mining jurisdiction. And then we have this incredible Tier 1 copper-gold asset called Cascabel and require different types of investors and different pools of capital. So separate, they'll allow both vehicles to attract the capital in advance with a lot more management focus, obviously, on each one, which benefits all the stakeholders in country and our investors, obviously, as we are able to unlock the value of both those packages. We're not -- this is not just a gold project like the other presentations today. This is a massive copper-gold porphyry. We'll get into some of the details later. But 12 million tonnes of copper sitting in resource, 30 million ounces of gold sitting in resource. In today's dollars, that circa $200 billion of metal sitting in the ground that's been discovered and drilled off through 250,000 meters of drilling done over the last 5 or 6 years. Last 12 months, I think everyone is familiar with the Cascabel or most people are probably familiar with the Cascabel project. Just to bring everyone up to speed in the last 12 months, there's been some, I'd say, some significant advancements in the project. First being sort of we republished the PFS in March of last year. So a relatively current pre-feasibility study, and you can see some of the key highlights at the bottom of the slide here. But the key objective of this study was to really re-envision how to develop Cascabel with a more capital-sensitive approach. And the previous PEA and the previous PFS really started big and assumed big deep pockets, which we do not have as a company. And so the PFS looked at how can we start from in a phased approach, start small and grow big. And that was the big success in the PFS category, we said, yes, you can start small and grow big into this project. So the small starter project is a -- just a 28-year mine life that delivers those types of economics. And that reflects about 20%, 25% of the overall resource. So when Paul was talking about optionality and upside and ability to get multiple times of return on the investment, we think this is just checks that box in spades with a 30-year mine life or just under 30-year mine life, representing a fraction of the overall resource. Not talking too much about exploration upside today, but proximal to the Cascabel tenement, we do have some other really interesting targets, and we are hoping to deploy some capital into that later this year. And that does become interesting for Cascabel because then you get some interesting other development options that may materialize out of that. In any case, you'll have shared infrastructure approaches, which these assets could potentially or other potential discoveries proximal to the Cascabel tenement may provide some other interesting optionality to this project. Next slide, we'll talk briefly on some recent executive changes we had in the company. But effectively, Cascabel with the PFS last year and some of our technical partners that we've brought on, and I'll also speak about, we really have the ship now pointed technically, we think, in the right direction. And now it needs capital to fuel it to move it forward. And so you'll see that sort of reflected in the C-suite changes that we'll talk about on the next slide. We're in good company with SolGold and the Cascabel project. Obviously, with -- our partners Franco, Osisko has also participated in the royalties and streams that are holed on this project. But we also have investment by great mining industry leaders. BHP owns about 10% of the company. Newcrest had done the original investment. Now Newmont owns about 10%. And then our most recent investor investment we announced last week, Jiangxi Copper, added to their position. And that was a really interesting deal we announced last week. They put some equity into the project at a 45% premium to market, which is always exciting for me as a CFO, more money in at a premium. That's great. But just as important as the money coming in was Jiangxi committing to provide additional technical services to our project at their cost. So we get sort of the big mining company mentality and technical services at this sort of critical stage as we enter the feasibility study to solidify the project parameters that would make sense to a big partner. Ecuador, a great mining jurisdiction. There's 2 large-scale mining projects operating in country right now. There's the Mirador mine, big copper mine, open pit mine operated by China Rail Construction and Tongling Investment. That's a joint venture down in the South. And then, of course, I think everyone in the room is familiar with the Fruta -- Lundin Gold's Fruta del Norte project, which has just been an exceptional success. And we benefit from those 2 mines in the permitting and the technical expertise that's been developed in country. We are slowly trying to poach those credible skill sets to have Cascabel benefit from the experience that's been generated in country. Like every project -- mining project in the world, we've got a respect or neighbors in the country which we operate. And to our local team, we have an incredible local management team has done an excellent job on this front. Franco and their due diligence team, I think, saw that firsthand when they were visiting the Cascabel site last year. We have great local community relations, very supportive of -- they want the mine to get built. They want the jobs, and they want the investment. And that same sort of sentiment runs right up through the federal government. So lots of support in Ecuador. And then I won't bother repeating the economics down there at the last point, but this is a big project. You can see it's a multibillion-dollar after-tax NPV with a generous return and that's just on the first, as I said, 30 years of reserve. All right. So I love the AI imagery here. That is me in AI form, I guess, in a better hairline. But more importantly, on the slide, Paul Smith and Dan Vujcic were recently added to our executive team. Paul Smith, being our new Executive Chairman -- non-Executive Chairman, sorry. Spent a better part of a decade with Glencore, Head of Strategy, a significant M&A transaction experience through -- with Glencore in his career and obviously very plugged into capital markets. Dan Vujcic, similar background, decades of experience in banking and capital markets. As you can see -- and Scott, our outgoing CEO, who's still on the Board of Directors, mining engineer by trade and decades and decades of experience. He really helped set the ships, as I said, we believe, on the right course. And you can see reflected here sort of now the focus of the company going forward. To be a little bit more capital markets outfacing. So standard checklist, what are the core criteria for any sort of credible mining project around the world. You need a good ore body. It has to be in a country that has good location, good infrastructure and supportive of mining. And of course, you need credible technical skills to actually build the mine. The font here is a little bit hard to read for everyone in the room. But suffice to say, I think we have all of that. The ore body, $200 billion, that's with a b, $1 billion worth of metal. But the reserve even that is over 500 million tonnes coming out about 1% copper equivalent over the 28-year mine life. So even that's over $50 billion of metal in the first -- in the reserve. That number is meaningful to this room because Franco owns an NSR on the royalty. And then, of course, the stream as well with the more recent transaction we did with Franco and Osisko Gold Royalties last summer. Do we have a sellable product? Absolutely. A lot of metallurgy has been done. The -- this -- the current flow sheet produces 1 product, just a copper concentrate and all the gold reports to the copper con. All the metallurgy work today, there's no nasty deleterious elements in it, very sellable product. We'll go anywhere in Europe, we'll go anywhere in the world and is completely unencumbered today. That's a big -- that's a significant opportunity for us because we believe that concentrate home will -- is a key project lever for us in unlocking additional project financing. Good location. We've talked about Ecuador. Ecuador is a great place to do business. I've been CFO for about 2 years of SolGold. I've done about 2 dozen trips down to Ecuador. Safe place, walk to work in Quito, where our projects a 4-hour drive straight north on a paved road all the way, you turn left and you're on the project boundary. So it's great infrastructure in the country. Power runs up to the side of the property, although power has some issues in general in the country right now, there is grid. And deepwater port exists where we expect the product to go out. And then proven mine builders. We are not proven mine builders ourselves, so we are collecting the talent around us to bring that credibility in. We announced in the fall of last year, G Mining Services joining the team to help us support the project going forward on a technical capacity. And I'll talk about some of our other technical partners that are joining the project as well. But really, the theme is leveraging a lot of the experience that's been generated in Ecuador through Fruta del Norte, through the Mirador mine and not reinventing the wheel. Here we go. So this is the path forward, derisking the project and you can see some of our world-class partners. So we need -- as I said, we need credible financial backers, and we've got that through Franco and Osisko with the transactions that we've done with them, very supportive. But we also have G Mining Services, great group. Not only do they have the experience with Fruta del Norte and the construction there. But they have a permanent office in Quito as well. So we can leverage sort of the talent that they've been building up and generating in Ecuador. We've recently appointed Entrix to lead our ESIA, same group that did Fruta del Norte. So again, we're leveraging the experience that's in country. And then Jiangxi Copper. So I briefly mentioned our financing that we did with Jiangxi Copper last week. But concurrent with that and just as important or more important is Jiangxi's copper commitment to providing technical services to us as well at their cost to help us sort of guide where there needs to be some sort of major project decisions where we may not have the experience. It's another view that we can incorporate into our project thinking as we move the project forward. Okay. So last slide, just the numbers from the PFS, but I think just sort of like rounds out what we were talking about already. It's a lot of metal. It's a significant mine life, multi-decade. You can see there just under 30 years with a production profile that produces about 200,000 tonnes of copper equivalent a year. This room is gold focused. So just we'll move that to gold. But while on a gold production basis, just average you've got 0.25 million ounces of gold for a 30-year or 28-year mine life, which is what Franco has the most exposure to on here. It's large scale, low cost, even with sort of the financing structures that have been put in place on the Cascabel project already. It still sits around $1 per pound all-in sustaining cost. So well into the bottom quartile of the cash cost produced over this year of mine life, it gets derived through and enjoy healthy margins even in a low metal price environment. And of course, at today's prices, it would just be rocking if we were actually pulling metal out of the ground. At the PFS prices, so the numbers in here are all based on the PFS metal prices $3.85 per pound copper and $1,750 gold. That's what generates those economics up there. One of the most exciting bullets for me is the first 10 years of free cash flow based on those metal prices is around $7 billion, just over $7 billion that number jumps to like $10 billion or $12 billion at today's metal prices. But that $7 billion is after a doubling of production. So we do a significant investment in the first 8 years to double the expansion of the copper concentrator and produce still after that expansion, $7 billion of free cash flow. So the takeaway for me there is that this is a financeable project because there's enough there to make this project go forward. So I think when Paul started, he said there's the key criteria that Franco looks for when it's investing in a new project. Cash flows, I think this proves categorically, this will generate positive cash flows. It's got to be in a good country, Ecuador, proven mining jurisdiction with 2 world-class operations already mining there. Long life, this is 28 years, and that's only a fraction of the resource. And then the ability for multiple times on the payback. And I think that sits in the tremendous resource upside that's not reflected in these numbers. So I'll end there, and I'm happy to answer questions at the -- afterwards in the reception.

Very exciting project. As we were saying upfront, the cop project is just so much bigger in scale than the gold projects. They're -- a huge undertaking. It takes a lot longer to get it there. And very exciting journey. But Cascabel has the potential to be a huge mover in the long term for Franco. I'll speak about that. Once Jason has done his piece. But first up, Jason will speak on our diversified strategy.

So I'll take a few minutes now just to walk you through our diversified strategy. As you know, we've long held a portfolio of diversified assets that we think are a very good complement to our core Precious Metals business. The key to our strategy is to use diversified assets to supplement our corporate growth during times when opportunities in precious metals are either scarce or sometimes expensive. Within that strategy, we do aim to keep to a maximum of 30% diversified revenue. And within that, we intend to keep to a maximum of 20% energy revenue. And we feel that, that's an appropriate target in order to maintain our status as the go-to gold stock but also to allow us the flexibility to add growth to the company. In terms of when we're active and diversified, there are a couple of other drivers that dictate when we'll do acquisitions. The first of those is, again, these are cyclical commodities. And we do want to aim to be opportunistic within the cycle to amplify our returns. The other element is sometimes there are high-quality or world-class assets that come to market. We don't control the timing, but we will pursue those when they're available and look to maintain our balance over the longer term. So examples of each of those are our energy assets where we have been opportunistic. And then with our iron ore Vale assets, that's an example of pursuing assets when they become available. We'll also look to leverage our skill set when we're acquiring assets. We'll use our team, our technical team and the Board that Eaun mentioned to identify great quality assets that we think will complement our portfolio on the whole. The slide on this page shows our diversified revenue as a contribution to total over time. And it also shows when we have acquired our key diversified assets. There's a couple of points worth noting on this slide. Number one, you can see that on an annual basis, the revenue does vary quite a bit year-to-year. But we have maintained that discipline over time of no more than 30% diversified over the long term. The other important point here is that I think it does demonstrate our strategy to be opportunistic. When you look at the period from 2014 to 2016, the oil price over that period went from a high of north of $100 a barrel down to a low of $30 a barrel. We saw that as an excellent opportunity. And in 2016, we began to deploy significant capital into oil assets, really trying to take advantage of the growth in U.S. shale. Likewise, in between 2018 and 2020, natural gas prices really softened. Prices dropped from $3 a barrel -- sorry, $3 an Mcf down to around $1.75 an Mcf. In 2020, we made the first of our Haynesville investments. That investment over just a few years, has nearly paid itself off on the back of what has been a rebound in natural gas prices. Going forward, the focus for adding assets remains in gold and precious metals. But we came out of 2024 with a commodity mix of about 23% diversified. So we do have some latitude to add assets if there are quality opportunities to pursue. This slide looks at the diversification within our diversified portfolio. On the left-hand side of the screen, you'll see the oil-weighted assets are highlighted in blue. On the right-hand side, you have gas-weighted assets and our iron ore assets. Our energy assets are located geographically all the way from Northern Alberta right down to Texas and the Louisiana Gulf Coast. They span almost all of the predominant or preeminent shale plays in North America, and they are exposed to many, many different operators. Our iron ore assets are located in Canada and in Brazil. They're operated by Rio Tinto and Vale, two of the world's best. If you look at all these assets in aggregate, they generate revenues of significant scale. So these assets generated about $250 million for us in 2024. Another key highlight here is that the diversified portfolio consists of extremely long-dated or long-duration assets. On the top of the slide, we look at our energy assets. And what we've done is divided our reserve life on a 3P basis or proven, probable, possible. We divided that by our production volumes for 2024. In other words, if you just hold volumes flat out into the future, these assets, on average, will generate a 22-year asset life. In addition to that, we do have exposure to multiple formations at depth that are not included here and also improvements in recovery that we hope will bear fruit. On the iron ore side, again, these based on reserves alone. These are multi-decade assets that we think will get even longer as resources are converted to reserves over time. One last point that I think is worth making. We do cover an expansive land package in our diversified portfolio. We have exposure to over 10 million acres of land, which to put that into context is roughly the size of Switzerland. And underneath that land position with what is the right geology. We think there's tremendous upside that should bear fruit well into the future. This slide looks at our energy revenues. You can see that they've ramped up quite significantly over time. In 2022, we had an exceptional year on the back of very strong natural gas prices. That's since moderated a little bit. Going into 2025, we're expecting about $200 million or so in revenue. That implies 60,000 to 70,000 GEOs at our forecasted prices and that fits within the total diversified guidance that we've issued of 80,000 to 100,000 ounces. We do have growth over the next 5 years that we expect from the energy assets that growth should come from increased volumes from our gas-weighted assets and also from increased distributions from our venture with Continental Resources. Another big contributor to the diversified GEOs is the Vale iron ore assets. These are in Brazil. We think these are tremendous assets. They are truly world class. They are at the bottom of the cost curve. There's many decades of reserves, as I pointed out. In 2024, they delivered about 16,500 GEOs to our revenue base. That came exclusively from the northern system. So you can see on the map, the northern and southern system -- southeastern system are outlined. During the course of this year, we do expect to cross a volume threshold that will allow us to receive royalties as well on the southeastern system. And once that happens on a volume basis, that should generate roughly 30% growth over this year. I just want to finish up on this slide. What this is meant to show is in our minds, there are a number of key attributes or characteristics that really drive a premium valuation in royalty portfolios. We think the diversified portfolio within Franco ticks all those boxes. This is a portfolio of huge scale. It generates roughly $0.25 billion a year in revenue from a very diverse asset base, a diverse set of commodities. Most of the assets are located in Canada and the U.S. It's underpinned by a very, very long life portfolio that will create cash flow for many decades. It's a portfolio that has demonstrated growth about sixfold over the last 10 years. And as I've spoken about, we expect further growth through our energy and iron ore assets. But in addition to that, in the years to come, we expect additions from copper development assets like Copper World, Taca Taca and others. And again, it's all underpinned by a very large land footprint. The chart at the bottom of the page is meant to convey an important point. If you look at the chart, you'll see that there are a number of royalty vehicles that are listed here, all of which trade at premium valuations. Those vehicles all have some attributes in common. They are underpinned by very large, scarce land bases that provide very, very long revenue duration. What they don't have is exposure to gold. And the takeaway here is, if you have a portfolio with the right attributes, you can trade at a premium multiple even outside the gold space. We think the Franco diversified portfolio has all those attributes. We think it's a tremendous complement to our precious metals business, and we think it's deserving of a premium valuation. And with that, I'll turn it over to Sandip.

Thanks, Jason. As Paul highlighted at the outset, I'm going to talk about available capital, the dividend and guidance. So at the end of the year, we had $1.45 billion in cash and cash equivalents. In December, we announced a $500 million acquisition -- stream acquisition with Sibanye. That has been fully funded in February. And then recently, we announced the acquisition with Discovery Silver on Porcupine. Total value there was $450 million. We have funded the $50 million in equity and the $300 million on the royalty likely fund, as Tony highlighted, next week or sometime in April. The loan component, that's sometime in the future, and that's at the option of Discovery, if they wish to draw on that. So when you net those balances out, we're down to about $600 million. Obviously, we've got the $1 billion credit facility, which is essentially undrawn. And then, being a gold company, we actually hold gold. And this is not really our stream ounces. This is royalty ounces. We actually accumulate royalty ounce -- gold ounces from some of our royalties and have built up that balance over the last number of years. It's helped out a lot in a rising gold price environment. So at the end of the year, that gold was worth about $100 million. So if needed, we could easily liquidate that. So in total, we've got $1.7 billion of available capital with minimal commitments. The largest commitment out there is the stream that we did with SolGold, but that will get funded later down the road. So we really don't have significant commitments at this time. In addition, where prices are right now, we are generating $250 million to $300 million cash flow from operations on a quarterly basis. So very well capitalized. With respect to the credit facility, we use it as a financing tool. And it's just there to add some financial flexibility, which is one of our core principles, as Paul outlined earlier. It's $1 billion. We've got a few credit letters against it for the CRA reassessments, but they're minimal. It does have an accordion feature for $250 million and it's 5 strong banks that support us with this facility. We're not opposed to using it. As you can see with the red bars on the chart, we have drawn on it. Again, we try to be opportunistic. So as Paul highlighted, 2014, 2016, you had the base metal downturn. We drew down on the facility during that time. We were very active. One of the reasons was, going into that downturn, we had significant financial flexibility. Again, 2018, 2019, gas prices came down. Oil was weaker. We were very active in the oil and gas space, as Jason highlighted. Again, we drew down on the credit facility at that time. And so our tendency is to draw down on it, but we pay it off as fast as possible so that we're ready for whenever the next downturn does occur. With our large cash generation, obviously, the priority is always going to be adding long-life, great assets to the portfolio with significant amount of optionality. But returning capital to shareholders is just as important. We're very proud of the fact that we've raised our dividend 18 years in a row. Our last raise was -- increase was in January. We raised it by just under 6% to USD 0.38 per share per quarter, so $1.52 annualized. That's a 13% CAGR since 2008 in terms of dividend increases. And for those shareholders from our IPO, they've done really well, essentially U.S. shareholders getting 10% yield right now. Our philosophy on the dividend is sustainable and progressive. We don't want to be in a position where we cut the dividend. Instead, we want to be in a position where we can maintain it and increase it every single year. And with our portfolio and the quality of our assets and the long life of them, we think we can keep this dividend and raise it for the long term just because of the portfolio that we do have and the cash flow generation that the company does deliver. A couple of weeks ago, we did release our guidance. 2025, we've got some significant growth. From a GEO standpoint, total GEOs, the range we're providing is 465,000 to 525,000. That's a 7% increase over 2024. Within that precious metals, 385,000 to 425,000. That's actually a 14% increase. Our diversified revenue is essentially flat, but because we're dividing by a higher gold price, it's equating to less GEOs. But still, when you look at the revenue numbers, we estimate a 25%-plus increase in revenue in 2025, just based upon where commodity prices are. And we used the $2,800 gold price for our guidance. The main components of our growth in 2025, the new mines, Tocantinzinho, Greenstone, Salares Norte. We'll get a full year ramp-up of those. You've got the new deals that have been done, the Sibanye Western Limb complex, Yanacocha as well as Porcupine. So we'll get the benefit of those ounces in 2025. And then the new mine, Valentine Gold, as was highlighted, will start production middle of this year. So good growth 2025, and as we move forward to 2029, further growth. So if you look at 2024, we did 463,000 GEOs. Looking forward to 2029, we're guiding to 490,000 to 550,000 GEOs. That's about a 12% increase over that time frame. Main components, again, new mines starting, Stibnite, Copper World, Eskay Creek and Taca Taca and then expansions at Vale, Antapaccay, Candelaria and Magino. When I look at that growth, I'm pretty confident most of that will materialize. We tend to be conservative in our guidance estimates, but I'm pretty confident that this growth is real and will deliver by 2029. The other important point to make here is this is fully funded. There is no commitments associated with this growth. We've got SolGold, which we have to fund, but that's at a later point in time, and that growth kicks in 2030 and beyond. So this is fully funded. So the cash flow that we generate going forward, we can spend on new deals and add incremental growth to this. But then above and beyond that is Cobre Panama. And with Paul talking about the sentiment changing, hopefully, by 2029, it's back in production. And if it is, it's 130,000 to 150,000 GEOs. If you take the midpoint of that range and you add it to the organic growth we've already got, we've got over a 40% increase in GEOs over that time frame. So significant growth ahead for Franco. And the one thing I will point out is that this outlook is based on GEOs sold and not production. There is a difference. One of our core principles, and Paul highlighted it, was we want to increase cash flow per share, and we want to increase NAV per share. We don't necessarily focus on top line growth. Like obviously, we all like to have growth in GEOs over time. But for us, it's on those 2 metrics: cash flow per share and NAV per share. And so what we have realized is that some of our peers use production GEOs as their guidance, others use GEO sold. There is a difference. Production GEOs are before refining deductions, before recoverabilities and before payabilities. GEOs sold are net of those. So our guidance is based on GEO sold. But even within that, there's a difference. Not all GEOs are equal. You've got stream GEOs and you've got royalty GEOs. Stream GEOs have a fixed cost for every single ounce that's being delivered. Royalty ounce is almost all margin, minimal cost. So as you look at this chart, you can see the cost element is much higher on the stream revenue than there is on the royalty revenue. So you might have noticed that at the end of the year with our financial results, we have started using a new metric called net GEOs. And the purpose is to make all GEOs equal. So what we do is we are backing out the cost of sales element for all GEOs so that it's a level playing field. And so you will see more of that metric used by Franco going forward. We will still report our numbers on GEOs sold, but we will begin also reporting net GEOs. And as I look forward to the growth that Franco has, it's almost all royalty-driven: Stibnite, Eskay Creek, Copper World, Vale. So it's high-margin growth ahead of us. And if all things stay as is, I expect our margin to increase over time. And with that, I will pass it to Paul for closing remarks.

Thanks, Sandip. I'm going to wrap up. But before I do, I'm just going to touch a little bit on longer-term optionality. Sorry, that moved forward. Sandip is speaking about our 5-year outlook. So those are all the assets that are producing and that we expect to produce over the next 5 years. Obviously, then there's Cobre Panama. We don't know, but we're very hopeful that, that will also start contributing over that same period. But that's not all there is in their portfolio. There are a lot of assets that fall outside of that 5-year time frame. We've broken that into 2 groups. The first one, long-term assets, those are -- and what I've broken out are the large-scale defined resource assets that we have. And you can see that's what's shown in the pie chart there. As we chat about, Cascabel has the potential to be a huge part of that; Pascua-Lama is in there; you've got Conga, which is the copper-gold property, that's a copper-gold project that sits on the Yanacocha property; NuevaUnión, a big copper joint venture between Teck and Newmont in Chile; all the royalties that we have that cover the ring of fire; Volcan gold project in Chile; and the Holt project. Tony, maybe you'll help us get the Holt project back going again up in Ontario. But amongst those projects, 4.9 million M&I royalty ounces. And royalty ounces, again, we have taken what we will get from those properties and converted into a royalty ounce. So we get 100% of the economics on that basis. At today's gold prices, that's $15 billion of value that is sitting in that pie chart. That's just the bigger projects, the more advanced ones. In addition to that, there are another 15 small advanced projects, and we've got 224 exploration assets that are not included in any of that. People often ask, "What is the next best thing that's going to come out of that portfolio?" Inevitably, there are, especially when commodity prices are good and people have got the drills turning, you always get more that comes out of that portfolio. We had one that popped up last year. The asset is called Rogozna. It's in Serbia. The company is Strickland Metals. They put out their first resource last year. It's a copper-gold target. It was about 5 million ounces of gold equivalent. They drilled through the back end of the year. They put out their second resource a month or so ago, 6.7 million ounces. We've got a 1.5% to 2% royalty on that. The metal value of that, more than $200 million at this stage. These are the little PoPs. This is the optionality that you get out of that royalty portfolio. So I'll wrap it up with that. Last thing to say is just in terms of the pipeline, I'm sure there'll be questions. We've got a very busy pipeline, very confident that we'll be adding more quality assets to the portfolio through the year. But with that said, we've been doing all the talking. We would love now to field any questions that you've got for me or for the team. Candida has a microphone. So if you put your hand up, she will bring it over to you so that the folks on the webcast can hear the question.

Lawson Winder from Bank of America Securities. I just wanted to ask, when you think about transactions and suitable IRRs, at least on the upfront metrics, what gold price do you think is appropriate to use today? And then how do you think about Franco-Nevada's cost of capital?

First up, in terms of the gold price, the different strategies that we use for gold and we use for the other metals where we're trying to be more opportunistic, we're trying to make sure we invest in, say, the lower half of the price cycle in other commodities. With gold, we look to invest through the cycle. Our discipline going to our Board is always give them 2 decks. They get a deck on consensus prices and they get a deck on what is close to spot prices. The art of doing the deal is you got to look at both scenarios. You don't know which one is going to play out, but you got to be happy with the outcome in both scenarios. The art of doing the deal is put the pin in somewhere in between. So that's the secret of the sauce. To your point on rates of return, that upfront investment, it is at a low rate of return. In a sense, call it wiggle room. One of the things we say to ourselves, when you invest in a mine, it's a spreadsheet. The only thing you know for certainty is the spreadsheet is going to be wrong. The commodity prices will be different from whatever you assume in there. So the key thing when we're looking at projects, are we highly confident that the project is economic, that we will get our money back? The #1 thing that we think about as a business, as I said upfront, is it's not the rate of return that you see on what's there today, it's investing in the right properties that can be a multiple of their size over time. Because if they are a multiple of the size, that ultimately is where you make your returns in this business. In terms of our cost of capital, I couldn't put a finger on our cost of capital. We know that it is low. Part of that is we don't typically use debt through the cycle. And so it's one of the elements in terms of how we bid our deals. People often ask us, "As the cost of debt moves up and down, do you move the rate of return that you demand up and down?" And the answer is no. The way we think about ourselves is that we can provide capital to the industry at a consistent cost. There will be times when debt is very cheap and then we can't compete, and we're happy not to compete on that level. There are other times when debt is far more expensive and then we can compete. So we prefer to think, both when we're competing with debt and also with the equity markets, that we're a consistent cost of capital. The equity markets is probably even more open and shut than the debt markets. There are some periods where they're wildly undervaluing assets and there are other periods where they're overvaluing it. We just try and be consistent. And what we find over time is when people really need our capital, it's when we get our deals done, and that ends up being a very good strategy.

If I could also ask one more question. On Cobre Panama, your partner in that mine, First Quantum Minerals, has started to invest pretty significantly into, I would call it, public relations in the country. And a lot of the officials in the country have indicated that really, the only thing standing in the way of that mine being shut down and that mine restarting is public opinion. Has Franco given any thought to getting involved the way First Quantum has in terms of trying to get the good word out about that asset to the population of Panama?

We work very closely with First Quantum. We, over the last 18 months, have had a lot of discussions on that strategy. We've done a lot of work in-country, collecting our own information intelligence. We share that all closely with First Quantum, very open to helping them out on that. But in terms of that current effort, no, First Quantum is leading that effort. They do need to lead the effort. They are the owner of the property. They are the face of the project in-country. That's the name and the persona that the people in Panama get to see, and they really are the best people to carry the message forward.

I'm going to start with you, Paul, since you're at the podium. Just on that long-term optionality of that 4.9 million ounces of M&I royalty ounces, how does that translate into what it could mean for your GEOs per annum? Like, should I be thinking that that's 50,000? Like, I don't know how to take that 4.9 million ounces.

Yes. I don't know that you can. I don't. I myself can't. We don't know the timing on those projects. They all are longer-term projects. So I don't know that you can quite translate it into an annual run rate at this stage. But what we've always found in the guidance of our company, and we -- every year when we do our strategy session, we put out our own internal projections for the growth of the company. And for the last 15 years, the growth peaks 5 years out, and then it comes off because that's the visibility you have on projects when they come online. Well, every year that we do that, and internally, if we've got the graph, it just -- it shows that peak moving out and out and out every time that we do it. So I think the takeaway from that is there's lots of gas in the engine that's going to keep driving the GEO growth for many decades to come.

And so maybe another way to ask it, that 4.9 million ounce M&I, when is the earliest do you think a substantial portion of that would come in? Am I looking into like 2035 and beyond? Would that be reasonable?

Probably the biggest single contributor there is Cascabel. And there's a lot of work that's being done now to move that project to feasibility, and we would love to see that being reached certainly within the next 2 years, and then that can move to a construction decision. It is a big block cave target. So that takes a long time to get that in production. But there are options. I didn't speak much about it. There is an open pit on the project, Tandayama. So there is the scenario of starting the decline to the underground, building the mill, starting to feed the mill, just like you did at OT from that open pit. So it's quite conceivable that when you get into the early 2030s, that you could see production coming out of that asset.

Okay. And can I also ask you on Cobre Panama as well? I think we saw that maybe First Quantum may be suspending arbitration with the government of Panama. Where are you on your arbitration with them?

So as you know, they are separate arbitration processes. They're under the ICC. We're going forward under the Canada-Panama Free Trade Agreement. Their process allows it to move faster than ours. But we are -- next steps in our process is we do put in a detailed claim in May of this year. And then that triggers a timetable that would put our hearing at about October of 2026.

Okay. So you haven't suspended or done anything on that front?

We haven't been asked to at this stage. But we're -- the plan A for both First Quantum and ourselves here is renegotiate the site of the mine. So we'll be very pragmatic on any requests around the arbitration.

If I could squeeze another one in for Jason that seems lonely over there. So I wanted to ask you about your diversified strategy. So you talked mostly about energy and iron ore. So my question for you is, is that sort of as you look at the landscape, should I be thinking that that's your focus on those 2 types of commodities? Or are you open to others like uranium and lithium? So I'm just trying to understand what other asset mix could I see in there? And then what size of deals are you seeing in the space at this point?

Yes. And I think the answer to the question really is, well, we do try to be opportunistic in the cycles, we're also focused squarely on the quality of the asset. And so usually, that's the #1 driver. As we look at what comes available, we're looking to add really good quality assets that complement the portfolio, not just a zinc asset for the sake of adding a zinc asset. I think we will look at all different types of commodities. I don't think we have a specific focus at this time. Lithium is a good example of a commodity right now that is depressed in terms of pricing. So it could be an interesting time within the cycle. And in terms of the sizes of opportunities that are out there, they really do range from very small to very large. We did do a small deal not too long ago where we acquired $1 million option on a potash project down in Brazil. It's small dollars that could be something quite meaningful in the future. And there are also bigger opportunities out there in various commodities that we'll look at from time to time.

And when you mean bigger, should I be thinking under $500 million? Or is that too big?

Yes. Usually, $500 million is a good number. We could go above or below that. I think we do, as I said earlier, want to maintain the commodity balance over time. So if there are larger opportunities that come available that we execute on, we would look to rebalance as time goes on.

Brian MacArthur, Raymond James. First of all, I think it's great. You talked about security. It's not something that's been talked about a lot, I think, over the years. So my question is really a few things. First of all, when you go into a deal, would you ever do a deal without security? Secondly, how do you price that in your rate of returns? And third, maybe, Paul, since we've been around for a while, maybe you can comment a little bit on whether you've seen that change over time, i.e., security is less than maybe it was in the past. And I get it, royalties are different than streams, but I'd just be kind of curious how that's evolved because obviously, it's become a bigger issue over the last number of years, and it's an important part of how you structure deals. And then maybe, Jason, over to you. Obviously, it's a little different in the base metals. You've got some equity investments. How do you think about it on that side?

Well, Brian, maybe I'll give you the overview to say that there have been some changes, particularly on the streaming side over time, in terms of the amount of security that people have taken, where they rank in the structure. But the best guy to ask the question in detail is Eaun. So I'm going to hand it over to him.

Thanks, Brian. I think, first of all, what we're really looking at and what you're focused on is kind of counterparty or credit risk and how you address that. So I think first principles is to make sure that you've got, from a risk perspective, a counterparty that will be solvent who will generate a lot of cash flow. And so when we talk about guarantees and obligations, it's not necessarily hard asset security. Hard asset security, I would say, is more typically limited to the project financings, which are generally the higher-risk investments and where you don't have a counterparty that has a strong balance sheet. So in a lot of cases, what we'll first seek to do is assess the credit quality, what is reasonable, what measures we can take, what safeguards we can avail ourselves of to reduce the risk. And so it's different in a case-by-case basis. There have been a lot of streams, streams that we have as well, that aren't hard asset security but have very strong guarantees. But really, there's no panacea, right? You have to look at each case separately. If you have a very strong parent, maybe the parent guarantee is a very good option. If not, maybe you take the hard asset security. But wherever possible, we seek to mitigate the risk because we want that tenure so we can see the optionality over time. But it's a multifaceted approach, in short.

And Brian, maybe just to follow up on your point on diversifieds. I think we're fortunate on the diversified piece of our portfolio and that a lot of what we own is mineral title, particularly on our energy assets in Canada and the U.S. That title is effectively a perpetual interest in the land. So regardless of what happens with an operator, if they go through a bankruptcy or a sales process, we own that mineral title. Our ownership interest is preserved. So we're fortunate there. And in looking at acquiring new assets, generally, under diversified, the opportunities that we're looking at aren't generally as structured as what Eaun was talking about. We're typically acquiring royalty interest that have title. And we're also -- because it is oftentimes not our primary commodity, we're not looking at situations where we're dealing with third-party counterparts that are stressed, where we're worried about security. It's really more the third-party royalties where you have an interest in the land base.

Any further questions from the room here? No? Yes, Lawson.

If I could just add a follow-up. On one of the slides that you guys presented, I found it pretty interesting that you're comparing some of the Franco-Nevada portfolio assets to woodlands. And I guess it begs the question, I mean, are you looking at potential transactions on woodlands or farmlands? I mean you can rent farmland out and have farmers sell the land. I mean, is that something that's on the radar?

Not on the radar at the moment. Two things there. The first is what are our skill sets. Our skill sets are figuring out resources in the ground. We've got geologists. We've got engineers. So we're going to stick to our knitting. The reason for showing the slide is to show the valuation of portfolios where they've got all of those attributes that Jason spoke of: long duration, good tenure, good diversification, growing cash flows. Really, what we want to demonstrate is we think, if you've got a portfolio with those attributes, that you can command the sort of premium multiples that all those various plays are getting.

I had to ask. Bill Gates owns farmlands.

Not quite in his league yet.

Derick Ma, TD Cowen. I have a question. On evaluating deals, perhaps pretax IRR is not a fair way to evaluate deals potentially on these long multi-decade assets. So how should investors be evaluating your success in executing on deals from day 1? Is there a better metric that we should be thinking about, whether it's payback or mine life or mineral endowment?

Derick, I'll take that to say, obviously, any time you do a deal, you've got to calculate what the returns look like day 1. I know that everyone always do it. I think the point to make is that's not the end of the race. That's the starting race. The assets have just crossed the start line. It's a marathon. Whether these assets do well is something that's going to play out over many, many decades. So my suggestion would be track how the assets are doing over time. It's really a much better measure of how well companies are doing than what does the headline look on the day that the new deal gets cut. I don't see any more questions in the room, Lloyd. Lloyd is nodding his head. It doesn't look like we've got any on the webcast. I'm looking that we're 2 minutes overtime here. So we'll wrap it all up and say thank you for all of your support, both analysts and investors. You all have contributed a huge amount to the success of Franco-Nevada. We really appreciate. Thanks for coming today. Please join us for a drink.