Franklin Resources, Inc. (BEN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
May 31, 2023
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Operator
operatorWelcome to Franklin Resources Conference Call. Hello, my name is Sylvie, and I will be your call operator today. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Selene Oh, Chief Communications Officer and Head of Investor Relations for Franklin Resources. You may begin.
Selene Oh
executiveGood morning, and welcome to Franklin Templeton's conference call to discuss the establishment of a long-term strategic relationship with Power Corporation of Canada and Great-West Lifeco, and Franklin Templeton's acquisition of Putnam Investments, which is as the foundation of the partnership. Statements made in this conference call regarding Franklin Resources Power Corporation of Canada, Great-West Lifeco Inc. and Putnam Investments, which are not historical facts, are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements speak only as of today's date and involve a number of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from any future results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. These and other risks, uncertainties and other important factors are described in more detail in Franklin's press release distributed this morning at 7:30 a.m. Eastern Time and in Power Corporation of Canada and Great-West Lifeco Inc.'s recent filings, which are available for viewing at www.sedar.com and in Franklin Resources' recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recent Form 10-K and 10-Q filings. None of the companies undertake any obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future developments or otherwise, except as may be required by law. Now I would like to turn the call over to our President and CEO, Jenny Johnson.
Jennifer Johnson
executiveThanks, Selene, and good morning, everyone. Joining me for today's call are Matt Nicholls, our CFO and COO; Adam Spector, our Head of Global Distribution; and Terrence Murphy, our Head of Public Markets. Today, we are excited to announce our strategic partnership with Power Corporation and Great-West Lifeco. The Power Group of Companies, including Great-West and IGM Financial are leaders in the global insurance, retirement, asset management and wealth management sectors and have collective assets under management and/or administration of approximately $2.1 trillion. Our partnership with Power and Great-West will be multifaceted. Great-West will provide an initial allocation of an incremental $25 billion in AUM to Franklin Templeton, and this amount is expected to grow meaningfully over time. As another foundation of the partnership, Franklin Templeton will acquire Putnam Investments from Great-West. Putnam is a $136 billion global asset manager, which has outstanding long-term investment performance and complementary investment capabilities and will strengthen our presence in the insurance and retirement sectors in particular. Lastly, a key component of the partnership is that Great-West will become a long-term shareholder of Franklin Resources. We are delighted that Franklin Templeton will be partnering with Power and Great-West and would like to extend a warm welcome to the outstanding team at Putnam. Over the past few years, one of our strategic priorities has been to increase the diversification of our business and increase our relevance in certain key segments of the industry. We have been focused on expanding our investment capabilities, investment vehicles and client segments across geographies to respond to market changes in client demand. While we are always focused on organic priorities, we have stated our interest in distribution-led strategic transactions that would further diversify our business and accelerate growth in key markets. This partnership with Power and Great-West exemplifies this. And most importantly, accomplishes our objective of offering more choice to more clients in important sectors and delivering better outcomes for our clients. Specifically, Power is a global partner that shares a consistent business philosophy of being long-term oriented investors with a client-centric culture and a core belief in active management. The Power Group of Companies holds controlling interest in Great-West, which includes Empower in the U.S. as well as Canada Life and Irish Life across Canada and Europe and IGM Financial, which encompasses subsidiaries Mackenzie Financial and IG Wealth Management. IGM also has investments in Rockefeller Capital Management and China Asset Management Company. Power's leading positions give us access to greater diversity and connectivity in client markets that offer attractive growth potential. Progress such as this enables us to further invest across our business to the benefit of our overall firm and client base. As they partnered power, Franklin Templeton is a leading global asset management firm with $1.4 trillion in AUM across a broad range of investment and distribution capabilities. Franklin Templeton's diverse specialist investment managers and wealth management business are complementary to the Power Group of Companies, and we are excited about the numerous opportunities to collaborate on a global scale. Our acquisition of Putnam is a global asset management firm that has outstanding long-term investment performance and brings complementary styles of investing to our existing capabilities. The addition of Putnam enhances our current business and strengthens our distribution resources, including bolstering our presence in the insurance and retirement markets. And having spent extensive time with the Putnam team, we believe that our 2 organizations are strongly aligned in terms of culture. Matt and I would now like to take you through the specifics of the transactions. You will find the investor presentation posted on the Investor Relations section of franklinresources.com. Turning first to the strategic partnership with Power and Great-West. As part of its diversification strategy, Great-West, the 6th largest insurer in North America will allocate initial $25 billion of AUM to Franklin Templeton's specialist investment managers within 12 months of the closing of the acquisition. This initial commitment expands our existing relationship with an important client and aligns with Franklin Templeton's strategic focus. We expect additional AUM to be contributed over the next several years from across the Power Group of Companies. As we pursue opportunities, we have identified by matching our capabilities with their clients' needs. Now let's turn to Putnam. As mentioned, Putnam is a global asset manager with $136 billion in AUM as of April 2023 and brings complementary investment capabilities with strong investment performance. Greater than 80% of mutual fund assets are in 4- and 5-star rated funds, and Putnam was recently recognized in Barron's Best Fund Families 2022 for strong performance over the 1-, 5- and 10-year periods in particular. Importantly, for us, as I have said, Putnam accelerates Franklin Templeton's growth in the retirement and insurance markets with a strong target date fund offering and highly regarded stable value investment capability. Putnam increases Franklin Templeton's defined contribution AUM to $90 billion. Retirement is an attractive channel known for its stable and growing assets and U.S. corporate DC assets are expected to grow to over $12 trillion by 2027. Putnam will also expand Franklin Templeton's insurance-related assets under management to approximately $150 billion. The insurance segment is a multitrillion-dollar asset base and strategically important to both the traditional and alternative asset management industry. The addition of Putnam will increase our overall AUM to $1.56 trillion and retail assets to $774 billion, excluding the incremental Great-West commitment. Putnam will add further scale and potential for additional efficiencies within Franklin Templeton's mutual fund platform, and we'll facilitate the potential to reposition subscale funds across the combined fund range. Franklin Templeton has a history of successful asset management acquisitions, and we understand the complexity involved in executing a smooth transition to and through closing. We spent extensive time with the key leadership and investment teams of Putnam. And as we have done with prior transactions, we have an execution plan that is focused on continuity, stability and minimizing disruption in investment teams, client relationships and client service. Now I'd like to turn it over to Matt to discuss the specifics of the transaction.
Matthew Nicholls
executiveThank you, Jenny. Amongst other factors, this transaction is structured to maintain Franklin Templeton's financial flexibility and promote our continuing investments in the business. It also protects our strong financial position in the event of continued challenging market conditions. As mentioned, Great-West will become a long-term strategic shareholder. And in this context, Franklin Resources, Inc. will issue 33.3 million shares in upfront consideration at closing plus $100 million in cash, 180 days after closing for 100% of Putnam. At yesterday's closing stock price, this totals $925 million in combined consideration. But the shares issued to Great-West, 26.2 million shares, representing 4.9% ownership are subject to a 5-year lockup and the remaining 7.1 million shares representing 1.3% ownership are subject to a 180-day lockup. Franklin Templeton will also pay up to $375 million in contingent consideration structured from year 3 to year 7 and tied to meaningful revenue growth targets from the strategic partnership. To receive the maximum consideration payable, revenues from the strategic partnership would need to grow to the equivalent of over 30% of Putnam's current annual revenue. From a tax perspective, the transaction is structured to allow Franklin Templeton to step up the tax basis to the acquired asset and create cash tax benefits valued in excess of $100 million on a net present value basis. Turning to the pro forma financial impact. The acquisition of Putnam is expected to add total run rate adjusted operating income of approximately $150 million after the first year post closing, consistent with an approximate 30% operating margin, inclusive of cost synergies. We currently anticipate $55 million to $75 million of non-recurring integration charges. The transaction is expected to be modestly accretive to adjusted EPS by the end of the first year after closing, including cost synergies. Although any incremental share repurchases beyond employee share grant hedges would accelerate this timeline. Given how we have structured this transaction, our balance sheet will continue to be strong with cash and investments projected to remain at approximately current levels of $6.5 billion, with no issuance of new debt associated with the transaction. As mentioned, this maintains our financial flexibility and our capacity to continue pursuing other growth initiatives. We anticipate closing the transaction in the fourth quarter of 2023, subject to customary closing conditions. In closing, we believe this transaction represents a mutually beneficial long-term partnership. It also achieved Franklin Templeton's goal to deliver an even broader range of investment strategies to our clients and accelerates our growth in attractive retirement and insurance markets. We are thrilled to partner with Power and its group of companies, which share our focus on delivering strong investment results to our clients and complements our other key relationships. Before turning this over for questions, Jenny and I would like to thank the leaders of the Power Group of Companies, Great-West and Putnam for their positive engagement with us over the last several months. And now we would like to open the call up to your questions. Operator?
Operator
operator[Operator Instructions] And your first question will be from Ken Worthington at JPMorgan.
Kenneth Worthington
analystMaybe first, as you think about the benefits of the transaction, how much of the benefits for Franklin are being driven by a close relationship with Power Group and Great-West? And how much might be associated with directly owning Putnam? And then ultimately, for this deal to work for the best result for Franklin, how important is it for Power Group to be a good partner? And are the incentives strong enough to drive this best result?
Jennifer Johnson
executiveYes. So look, I -- it's both. It's -- I don't think this deal would get done without the distribution capability and without the fact that Putnam is an amazing investment franchise. You got 4 and 5 star funds and 80% of their assets and funds. So we're excited about the capabilities it brings, but we're also excited about the relationship with Power. And from an alignment standpoint, I mean, Power is primarily paid in Franklin stock and are long-term holders of it. We think they're going to be fantastic strategic partners and holders of our stock. We've already discussed governance framework for ensuring that the partnership is, we're thinking about it long term, so I would say that it is both the asset of Putnam as well as the relationships that we get with the retirement platform like Empower, Great-West from the insurance side as well as the wealth management capabilities that they have, including even a closer relationship with, say, a Rockefeller, which they own 20% of. And it just allows us a seat at the table to be able to talk about the great capabilities that we have.
Matthew Nicholls
executiveKen, I would just add that, if you look at the strategic priorities, as outlined by Power and Great-West Life, it became quite fair to us that they have this tremendous focus on growing wealth insurance retirement collectively and have a history of doing that over the past many years, both organically and inorganically. So that's point number one. Point number two, as Jenny alluded to, the connections between Putnam and Great-West Life and other parts of the Power Group of Companies is pretty embedded. They have a very, very strong long-term relationship. They haven't just owned Putman for a few years. They've owned Putnam for a very long time, and the relationships are very deep and strong across those organizations.
Kenneth Worthington
analystOkay. And then following up, I wanted to dig further into Empower. Can you talk about how you see specifically the relationship between Empower and Franklin developing? Maybe how big is Franklin on the Empower platform today? And to what extent does the transaction enable the potential for Franklin to have a bigger or much bigger footprint on the record keeper over time?
Jennifer Johnson
executiveYes. I mean, I think when we looked at it, Franklin is ranked like 14th largest asset manager on Empower. So as you can imagine, just getting up to our market share would be significant. So we think it's a great opportunity. And the fact that Putnam has really high-performing, stable value and target date funds, which are great ways to get into any planned platform, is going to be really important. About 29%, I think, of Putnam's assets are in the DC space. So we hope that, that connection and that relationship allows Franklin to move up significantly from #14.
Operator
operatorNext question will be from Brennan Hawken at UBS.
Adam Beatty
analystThis is Adam Beatty in for Brennan. Just wanted to ask a little bit more about the wealth management channel. First of all, it looks like you have Rockefeller sized in the deck there, but maybe not IG Wealth Management. So just trying to get a handle on the order of magnitude there. And then further, I guess, to Ken's question about Empower, just how you're planning to use some of the new products as well as Franklin's existing capabilities to go after the wealth channel?
Jennifer Johnson
executiveI think IGM Wealth is around -- they're about $86 billion in assets under...
Matthew Nicholls
executiveJust in Wealth.
Jennifer Johnson
executiveJust in Wealth.
Matthew Nicholls
executiveYes. [ $256 billion. ]
Jennifer Johnson
executiveSo if that answers your question. What was your other question?
Adam Beatty
analystYes. Just in terms of the strategy and how you're planning to use Franklin's maybe existing capabilities as well as what Putnam obviously brings to go after the Wealth channel?
Jennifer Johnson
executiveYes. I mean, one of the challenges, I think, that Power has had with Putnam and here you have this unbelievably performing investment capabilities. But the challenge has been on the distribution side is distributors are reducing the number of partners that they have. And so it works both ways, right? We can bring Putnam to some of the bigger platforms that they may have been subscale. But also on the Power side, it allows us to sit down and Putnam already has relationships with many of these Power Corporation investments. And we now are having conversations around our capabilities as well as we'll be able to ETFs and SMAs. I mean, so it just opens up the conversation. And again, as I mentioned, the framework around the 2 companies, we have built out a framework around working together to ensure we understand the priorities at a place like Empower, the priorities at IGM and being able to be at the table when they're thinking about what product development they want and what the opportunities and I don't know, Adam, do you want to add anything?
Adam Spector
executiveYes. I would just say that, to me, what's most exciting about this is that the product sets are complementary, and that's really valuable. But where we have our strongest relationships in the Wealth channel, Adam, I think that was your question. We have complementary strength in distribution. So bringing the 2 product sets together with one distribution platform where the legacy firms have different strength is better for both organizations.
Adam Beatty
analystThat's got it. Very helpful. Appreciate those figures also.
Operator
operatorNext question will be from Michael Cyprys at Morgan Stanley.
Michael Cyprys
analystI wanted to circle back to the $25 billion of flows that you're expecting to get within the first $25 billion within the first 12 months. What sort of strategies is that expected to be allocated into? What sort of fee rate can we expect on those? Are those likely to be more of the higher fee alternatives with 50 basis point type fee rates or higher? Or is that more of like a core fixed income allocation that's more single digits? And then maybe you could speak to how you expect that $25 billion to grow over time in terms of incremental flows? How meaningful could that be? And what's going to drive that?
Matthew Nicholls
executiveYes. So for the first $25 billion, about 2/3 of that is likely to be in core, core-plus investment grade, fixed income-type assets under management. That's lower fee insurance-related general account classic fixed income business. The effective fee rate as a whole, though, is something like 50 -- I'd say mid-teens basis points. It does include a portion of allocation into 2 or even 3 of our specialist investment managers that are in the alternative asset space. That brings the effective fee rate up. In terms of the future, $25 billion is a very promising starting point for the strategic relationship, but the potential to expand beyond that is quite considerable given the breadth of our capabilities and the needs and the growth on the Power Group of Companies side. As Jenny mentioned, we worked extensively on a bottoms-up analysis in terms of the matching of what we can do at Franklin across all of our strategies, alternatives and traditional combined with the needs on their side.
Michael Cyprys
analystGreat. And just a follow-up question. Could you speak to the organic growth trajectory at Putnam over the last 3 years? How many of those years, if any were positive, what that flow picture looks like? And maybe you could speak to where they've had some strength versus some challenges on the flow side and some of the stuff that you might be able to do to help accelerate their organic growth?
Jennifer Johnson
executiveYes. As you can imagine, we dug deeply into this area. They had positive flows in '19 and '20. And there are more recent challenges and outflows in '21, '22 is really concentrated in their ultrashort duration, short duration kind of mortgage areas. Any honestly, same places, we've had some challenges, primarily because people have invested in those as safe fixed income products and with the rate, the pace of the Fed rate increases, a lot of people move that money into money market funds. And so we think as rates stabilize, it is quite likely that they'll be back into positive flows.
Operator
operatorNext question will be from Alex Blostein at Goldman Sachs.
Luke Bianculli
analystLuke Bianculli on for Alex. I was hoping we could start off just to make sure I'm reading this right. The $150 million in operating income by the end of the first year after closing. So if the deal closes at the end of calendar year 2023, does this mean $150 million in calendar 2024 or 2025? And can you just walk through how much revenue growth and margin expansion you're building into projections?
Matthew Nicholls
executiveSo from a timing perspective, when we say end of the first year, we mean the beginning of our fiscal 2025. So that will be through '23 because obviously, we got September year-end. So we're talking about next September. So going into October, 2024, so fourth calendar quarter next year, we would expect to be on a run rate level at least at $150 million. In terms of margin, our objective is to make sure that the Putnam business is at least at the same multiple -- sorry, at the same margin as Franklin, which is 30%. And obviously, there is some upside to that. But we're very carefully managing the process of execution and we feel comfortable with the $150 million and the timing and the sequencing around that. In terms of how we will achieve that, just one step further on the question is we expect to phase in 25% of the cost savings in the first quarter and the rest over the following 4 quarters fairly linearly, I would say.
Luke Bianculli
analystThat's super helpful. I appreciate the detail. For my follow-up, I was hoping you could go through some protections on the purchase price. Do you guys have any qualifiers around the $100 million in cash or the $825 million in stock issuance, like, for example, is it subject to changes in AUM or projected revenue between now and the first -- and the time of the close?
Matthew Nicholls
executiveWe have standard purchase adjustments in the -- it is all tied to client consents and things like this in the purchase agreement. They're very standard, and we'd be very, very surprised if any of those purchase adjustments were triggered in any shape or form. Obviously, we have the protection in the transaction -- embedded in the transaction by using our equity, which was a very deliberate strategic decision to do that. There is no additional protection on the $100 million. The only thing I'd say is that we do have a minimum asset management services agreement of revenue, which ties very closely to the preliminary $25 billion of assets under management. So when you look at those 2 things, we have a minimum amount of revenue that we'd expect. Even if we did not, for some reason, like a big market move, for example, we didn't get the assets that we expect over time from the partnership, we do expect meaningful revenue to be coming in each year. So it's a combination of those things. It's the fact we've done in equity, we have standard provisions within the purchase agreement. We've got the sort of the minimum, let's call it, asset servicing agreement between us and the company. And then, of course, we have the earnout of $375 million, which in order to achieve the high end of that earnout, the revenues need to grow. If you think about partner as a base of $500 million, that has to grow by at least 30%, a little bit more than 30% to reach that. So we think we have reasonable protections in the transaction in that regard. And the way we look at the -- where we're at in 12 months' time, the multiple of this transaction would be lower than our multiple as a company, which is how we got comfortable, partly how we got comfortable with equity on top 4 of the strategic reasons that we've outlined.
Operator
operatorNext question will be from Daniel Fannon at Jefferies.
Daniel Fannon
analystI wanted to follow up just on the flow picture in the commentary. So just Jenny, on your comments that implies that equity flows at Putnam have been positive over the last couple of years. So I just want to clarify that. And then when I look at the slide that shows the channel mix of your 2 companies, they're quite similar. So Adam, I was hoping you could maybe expand upon how your distribution platform in retail is different than theirs and ultimately, how you think you can accelerate it or improve the growth trajectory?
Jennifer Johnson
executiveYes. So I'll just start. Their equity flows have been strong, particularly in like U.S. equities and they are very large large-cap value equity. The areas that they've struggled have been in the multi-asset and the fixed income. And primarily concentrated in the fixed income in the categories that I spoke about earlier. And was there a question for...
Adam Spector
executiveYes. And I would say that, well, if you look at the overall channel mix, there's some similarities when you dig below those numbers, there's differences. So for instance, if you take a look at insurance, a lot of theirs is on the general account side where we might be a little more VA heavy. In addition, the retail distributors that we have strength with are slightly different. And within that, there's a different product group. As an example, their large-cap value is not only a stellar performer, but one of their better sellers as well. We think that's a nice complement. We also have a significantly larger non-U.S. distribution footprint and think that, that will be additive -- their products will be additive to that lineup, and we'll be able to accelerate growth that way. And then finally, as Jenny mentioned earlier, their position with the Power Group of Companies, including Empower is a little superior to ours, and we think that will be additive to both companies.
Matthew Nicholls
executiveAnd then, okay, I guess one other point to make there is a scale point to make here, and that's that our largest distributors expect more from us in terms of relationships and with the relationships that we have and the capacity that we provide and the type of strategic discussions we have with our customers means that we'll hopefully be able to provide more access to these high-performing strategies that Putnam runs.
Adam Spector
executiveAnd Matthew, I would add to that, that our solutions business is a real area of growth and the Putnam strategies will now be on our solutions platform, and that's yet another avenue for growth for those strategies.
Daniel Fannon
analystGreat. That's helpful. And then as a follow-up, Matthew, I was hoping you could -- the accretion to adjusted EPS, so accretive to what? Is that current consensus estimates for next year? I just want to clarify that. And then also, I think I missed the total cost savings number that you highlighted. You gave the percentage of when it will be realized. So what's the total cost savings you're expecting?
Matthew Nicholls
executiveYes. So yes, EPS is to consensus. In terms of overall cost savings, it's fairly close to the operating income number I mentioned. So Putnam currently is -- and obviously, there's a number of allocations. It's quite complicated. If you look at the publicly available financial is not necessarily a direct reflection of a stand-alone business. But I would see them to be mildly profitable. And what we're able to do through adding Putnam to our overall platform here is to create the scale that you need in this business to have the type of margin we're talking about. So that's what we're going to be achieving. And as I mentioned, we're confident that we'll achieve that within 12 months.
Daniel Fannon
analystSo just to clarify, that's $150 million that you're saying equivalent to the operating income?
Matthew Nicholls
executiveYes.
Operator
operatorNext question will be from Mike Brown at KBW.
Michael Brown
analystThank you for doing this business update. I guess, I just wanted to check in on just an update on how you're thinking about strategic M&A now going forward. Obviously, you just announced this transaction. But is this indicative of a more conducive market for M&A in the asset manager space? And then as you -- how is activity progressing here? Are you starting to see a bit more of a healthy pipeline or dialogues kind of improving? And then I know you just announced a deal, so I had to ask about the next one. But could you just give us an update on how you're thinking about what other strategic opportunities could come next as you look forward?
Jennifer Johnson
executiveYes. So I'll start a bit on how we're thinking about it as a firm and Matt's always got his finger on the pulse of the industry stuff, so I'll let him add there. So I think we've been pretty consistent with the 3 areas of focus for us. Product capabilities and emphasizing historically in the alternative space because we see that as a secular change where more folks are allocating into the private markets. And the only area that we really see that still is open for us, that we'd be interested in acquiring is in the infrastructure space. And then distribution capabilities. We look at this as completing both distribution, not completing, but adding both distribution as well as product gaps and that was the stable value in the targeted two in particular, but also large cap value. And then finally, the third area for us is if there were interesting local asset management. So those are the -- that's our M&A strategy. The nice thing about this deal is by using our stock, we both ensure that the partnership of Power Group is aligned with Franklin Templeton because they are a major holder of our stock and also provides us with continued financial flexibility if we were to be interested in doing other deals. As I've said, we've done a lot. And so the bar is higher. But if the right opportunity came up, let's check the box in any of those 3 areas, we still have the ability to move in it. And then Matt, anything you want to add in?
Matthew Nicholls
executiveYes. I think, Jenny, you got -- you answered it all. The only thing I'd add to it is in terms of your question around just general strategic activity in the industry, I'd say it's really strong. And I don't think that the dialogue is strong and the flow of ideas is strong across the industry with many different partners. But as you know, we're very focused on alternative assets. But we've never taken our foot off the gas in terms of making sure we explore very deeply what else we can do with our traditional asset management space, both are really important. But it's not just us. There's a lot of activity going on across the sector because the industry continues to evolve and not in a very slow way. Our clients demand more from us in more places. And we want to make sure that we're relevant and a winner in the sector. So that's really the overall perspective in terms of activity. I don't really see the complexity of the market conditions, haven't really slowed any of that down. There's no such thing as finding a great thing in difficult markets for a lower price, for example, in particular, in the alternative asset space. But we're very busy in the areas that Jenny mentioned, and it's very hard to do these transactions. You need to have sort of a bit of a corporate DNA and being able to successfully integrate and make them work. And we think we can do more of it when we need to and when the timing is right for us.
Operator
operatorThis does conclude today's Q&A session. And I would like to hand the call back over to Jenny Johnson, Franklin's President and CEO for final comments.
Jennifer Johnson
executiveGreat. Well, I'd like to thank you guys all for your interest and for all the questions today. We think this is a really compelling transaction for Franklin Templeton, and we're excited to welcome Putnam to Franklin Templeton and are delighted to have Great-West as a long-term shareholder. We look forward to collaborating on numerous opportunities on a global scale with the Power Group of Companies. So thank you, everybody, for your time today.
Operator
operatorThank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude your conference call for today. Once again, thank you for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.
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