Fusion Finance Limited (FUSION.NS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Fusion Finance Limited Q2 and H1 FY '26 Post-results Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Smit Shah. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the Q2 and H1 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call of Fusion Finance Limited. We have the company's senior management team with us on this call today. Before we begin, I would like to remind that certain statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve certain risks and uncertainties. A detailed statement in this regard is available in the Q2 and H1 FY '26 investor presentation that has been uploaded on the stock exchanges and the company website. I now hand over the call to Mr. Sanjay Garyali, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Fusion Finance Limited, to begin the proceedings of this call. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good morning, everybody, and thank you for joining us today for Fusion's Q2 and H1 FY '26 Earnings Call. I hope you and your families had a wonderful festive month. The sense of optimism and cheer that this season has brought across the country continues to reflect on the ground, bringing some much-needed freshness to an otherwise challenging global environment. Before I begin, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the leadership transition that took place last quarter. Devesh and I have worked very closely over the past several months and I want to sincerely thank him for ensuring a smooth seamless handover and for laying such a strong foundation for Fusion's next chapter. His vision, commitment and deep belief in responsible growth continue to guide us. As I take on this responsibility, my focus is to build upon his legacy, continue to steer Fusion into a phase of calibrated growth with sharper execution, stronger credit discipline and deeper customer focus. The broader macroeconomic environment continue to show steady improvement. Favorable monsoon patterns, healthy agricultural output have supported rural income stability, while inflation has moderated across most consumption categories. The recent rationalization in the GST rates across several essential and consumption like categories has improved affordability and sentiments in the rural and semi-urban India. Lower taxes on 2-wheelers, fertilizers, farm inputs and household goods are strengthening purchasing power, boosting small business turnover and improving cash flows for self-employed borrowers. We believe that this recovery in consumption is not a one-off bounce off. It appears broad-based and sustainable. Tractor sales, 2-wheeler registrations and rural wage growth continue to trend positively, signaling durable demand through the second half of the year. At the same time, the microfinance sector has strengthened. Power levels across most leading players have declined to multiyear lows. Collection efficiencies have improved and the sector's credit curve has now flattened, reflecting improved borrower behavior and discipline. For Fusion, these tailwinds are significant. A more buoyant rural economy combined with stronger cash flow visibility for small entrepreneurs directly enhances the quality of the portfolio and repayment discipline of our borrowers. The second quarter of FY '26 builds upon the encouraging momentum of Q1. Across all key metrics, credit cost, asset quality, disbursements and collections, we have seen meaningful improvement. This progress validates the effectiveness of our refined operating model, which integrates regional sensitivities, borrower behavior insights and risk analytics directly into our growth strategy. Our primary focus continues to remain on the quality of growth, ensuring that whatever customers that we acquire are acquired with a strong credit hygiene, and we continue to have robust collection discipline and meaningful customer engagement. I'm also happy to share that IRDAI has approved our corporate agency license in October, enabling us to build more diverse and customized products for our customers. Coming to disbursements. Disbursement stood at INR 1,298 crores in Q2, up about 37% sequentially, INR 950 crores in Q1, taking the total disbursements to INR 2,248 crore in H1 FY '26. We acquired about 75,000 customers in Q2 versus 55,000 in Q1, with [ September ] alone contributing over 80,000 customers. About 75% of Q2 disbursements were to existing customers. reflecting deep franchise trust. Our portfolio of clients have relationships with more than 3 lenders has significantly come down to now 10.8% at a value level. The same figure on the current book now stands at 6.9%, clearly showing deleveraging due to disciplined new sourcing. In new disbursements, we continue to focus on Fusion and Fusion plus 1 customers, which now account to over 78% of new acquisitions and have consistently demonstrated superior repayment discipline. Our state level and now district and branch level strategy remains data-led and disciplined. We have gone deeper into the field to categorize risk at the ground mapping branches and districts by risk profile, leverage indicators and environmental stress parameters. The sharper segmentation allows us to calibrate approval rates, optimize exposure and channel efforts to areas demonstrating resilient credit behavior. Approval rates have now improved to 27% in quarter 2 which are sequentially moving up from 24% in the last quarter. This validates our enhanced credit filters, stronger on-ground intelligence and better field productivity. The average ticket size has now improved to 56,000, largely driven by second cycle customers who now form 36% of the client base versus 27% a few quarters ago. Credit quality continues to strengthen. Credit costs declined to INR 111 crores in Q2 from INR 178 crores in Q1, making the fourth consecutive quarterly decline. GNPA improved to 4.6% from 5.5% in Q1 and NNPA remained low at 0.38%. Collection efficiency was at 98.5% with the new book at 99.5% collection efficiency. Book now stands at 65% of the overall book in terms of value. The forward flow from the current book continue to remain controlled between 0.5% to 0.6%. I would also like to reinforce here that collection efficiency, while I have mentioned on a number of customers in the current bucket was 98.5 the same on POS because that is what the industry talks about is at 98.85 in quarter 2, which is an improvement of 98.65 over previous quarter. On the operational front, our paperless customer onboarding system has significantly reduced processing time and manual errors, ensuring faster turnaround. Real-time internal audit and fraud control systems have sharply reduced irregularities month-on-month, allowing our front-end teams to focus on growth rather than manual checks. Disbursement growth has come despite a reduction in the overall manpower from 15,400 to 13,600 demonstrating productivity gains and process efficiency. Our dedicated collections vertical remained stable with over 75% of the staff having more than 6 months tenure. The analytics-driven segmentation is helping faster rollbacks, while 90-plus DPD recoveries and ride backs have gained stronger momentum. Right of recoveries have nearly doubled to INR 13 crores in Q2. Our 30-plus DPD flow forward rates continue to outperform the industry by 10% to 12%. Digital collections have grown from 21% to now 35% supported by greater customer adoption and real-time tracking. We are rolling out digital receipting to further improve transparency and reduce grievances. Our MSME vertical continues to scale as Fusion's second growth engine. As of September, the portfolio stood at INR 708 crores, up from INR 634 crores in Q1, with 91% of the book secured, and an average LTV of 42% and an IRR of 23%. Operating across 8 states and 91 branches, the business remains at about 56% approval rate and 78% booking. The focus remains on lending to small entrepreneurs, traders and service providers within a 50 to 60 kilometers radius of each branch, fully PSL compliant, 100% of them registered and over 95% digital collections. We have remained focused on creating a right to win through distribution reach, strong cash flow assessment and emphasis on property marketability rather than mere technical valuations. These measures are helping us grow the book meaningfully without proportionate OpEx increase. We have also added cost-efficient channels on the ground to enhance per person productivity and scale sustainability. Technology continues to anchor our transformation. We are building our origination and servicing systems in-house by leveraging AI for real-time KYC, geo-fencing and credit scoring, improving compliance, reducing fraud and enhancing customer experience. We have also started pilots with multiple partners to test alternate models for early and mid bucket collections. The AI models under training are already showing encouraging results with over 85% of our workforce in business roles and 75% of the branch managers over 3 years tenure reflecting depth and stability. Governance has further been strengthened with the induction of Rajeev Sardana as an Independent Director and appointment of a dedicated Chief Compliance Officer and Head of Internal Audit, both reporting directly to the Board. Fusion is now operating from a position of strength, discipline and renewed energy. Our strategic focus for the rest of FY '26 and beyond rests on three critical pillars: first, from an acquisition, so expanding presence in branches and districts, which we have identified as growth driven by products like Ujala and Sugam which ensure that we are adding less leverage customers. Second, stronger underwriting, using data analytics to build credit guardrails, which are stronger than industry norms and reviewing them quarterly. We are also developing an advanced bureau plus 2 credit model for sharper credit separation. Third, people capability through AI enablement, ensuring that every technology investment directly empowers our team on the ground and enhances their ability to serve customers better. In parallel, we are also reinforcing our capital position to support the next leg of growth. The Board has approved calling the second tranche of INR 400 crores from the ongoing INR 800 crore rights issue in view of the improving asset quality, collections efficiency and rising credit demand across our operating states. This call reflects our stronger performance and investor confidence ensuring that we enter FY '27 with ample capital headroom to fund both microfinance and MSME expansion sustainably. Having emerged from a prolonged credit cycle, Fusion today stands derisked, disciplined and digitally enabled. Our microfinance business is stabilizing and our MSME vertical now over INR 710 crores in AUM when 93% secured loans is ready to scale as our second growth engine. With renewed leadership, strong lender confidence and capital adequacy of over 31%, we are moving to forward building. We have proven that early recognition, proactive provisioning and consistent transparency build trust. Going forward, our focus will shift from protecting the balance sheet to expanding it safely, sustainably and profitably. We are also confident that the strong foundation we have built supported by prudent governance, robust systems and a customer-centric culture will help us to deliver sustainable and profitable growth in the quarters ahead. Thank you once again for your time and continued support. I will now hand over to Aman to take you through the financials in detail.

Thanks, Sanjay. Good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to walk you through our financial performance for the quarter ended September 30, 2025. The second quarter of FY '26 reflects continued operational discipline, a strong focus on balance sheet quality and sustained support from our lenders and partners. Starting with our capital and liquidity position, during H1 FY '26, we raised INR 1,813 crores through fresh between April '25 and September '25, including INR 258 crores through DAs, INR 327 crores via PTC and INR 173 crores via ECB. We remain comfortably placed with liquidity of INR 892 crores and a capital adequacy ratio of 31.31%, well above the regulatory requirement. The completion of the party paid up right issue, along with consistent internal accruals has further strengthened our capital buffers and enhanced financial flexibility. Our relationship with lenders continues to be robust. Coverage for covenant breaches of quarter 1 FY '26 has strengthened to around 89% as of date, up from 72% in the previous quarter. For Q2 FY '26, we are witnessing a similar trend with most waivers either received or in process. This ongoing confidence is reflected not only in waiver approvals, but also in fresh credit line extended to us. underscoring the resilience and credibility of our company within the financial ecosystem. Now turning to funding and margin performance. Our average cost of funds remained stable at 10.35% in line with previous quarters, while marginal cost of funds declined to 12.9%. Despite this, our NIM expanded to 10.9% driven by a richer yield mix, improved asset quality and lower nonrecognition of interest income on Stage 3 assets. Now coming on ECL and asset quality. We have continued to maintain a strong focus on portfolio hygiene and credit quality. During the quarter, our disciplined approach led to further improvement in asset quality metrics with gross NPA declining to 4.61% while net NPA remained well contained at 0.38%. Our credit cost for the quarter was INR 111 crores, equivalent to 1.7% of average own book loans. ECL provisions stood at INR 444 crores, down from INR 579 crores in the previous period, with strong Stage III coverage of 92.1% and Stage 2 and 3 coverage of approximately 85%, reflecting our conservative approach towards recoverability and minimal P&L volatility. During the quarter, we also wrote off INR 246 crores of portfolio and released INR 15 crores of management overlay based on management analysis, including asset quality metrics, the reduction in delinquency and conservative provisioning approach under ECL, supported by higher provision coverage across stages. Now coming on operational performance. We continue to streamline cost and enhance productivity. The cost-to-income ratio was 70.2% and overall operating costs stood at 11.38% for the quarter. Some modest increase in the operating cost ratio over the previous quarter is driven by a reduction in AUM. This is expected to normalize as AUM expense in the coming quarters. despite a moderated portfolio size following the recalibration undertaken over recent quarters, our pre-provision operating profit stood at INR 89 crores, reflecting the underlying strength of our core operations and efficiency gains. To summarize, quarter 2 FY '26 marks another step forward in our journey towards sustainable profitability characterized by stable margins, high provision coverage and strong liquidity. With continued lender trust, improved asset quality and disciplined cost management, we are very much confident of delivering further improvements and building durable growth with robust guardrails in the coming quarters. Thanks.

Can we move on with the question-and-answer session?

Yes.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Renish from ICICI.

Congrats on a good set of numbers, especially loss further reducing to INR 22-odd crores. So now my first question is on the P&L charge, which stood at more INR 100 crores. Now can you please help us with some reconciliation like how much is towards incremental power provision and how much is towards write-off? Obviously, write-off number is there in PPT but when I do a reverse math of looking at your incremental par zero rate, which is 0.5, 0.6, so that number actually doesn't reconcile with your P&L charge.

Actually, P&L charge, whatever provision we have made, INR 15 crore of management overlay what we have released, that charge you have to add back if you want to calculate with the respective flow rates. So -- and with reference to ECL calculation methodology, the same factors what we have applied in the earlier quarter, that's the same we have followed. So flow rate metrics will calculate the same. And one thing more, the flow rate calculation is on AUM based on own bucket and DA bucket and the calculation of ECL is based on our own bucket. So there must be a difference between that.

I mean can you just give me 1 number, what is the incremental provision towards fresh par accretion?

Total incremental provision, including that write-off is around INR 126 crores, including management overlay.

Okay. Maybe I will stick it offline. Sir, my second question is on the market exits, right? So in the last 6 months, we have closed almost 25 branches. Now can you please throw some light on which geographies we are exiting the market?

So Renish, most of -- there is no specific state that these branches lie in and they are -- most of these branches are distributed between the top 3 states, which is UP, Bihar, Odisha and some of it in MP. So these -- essentially, these branches were closed down, and there are some branches that we have added because these branches were not making headway for us, but these are insignificant in terms of the existing POS. We have also shut down some MSME branches and merged with our ROs to reduce our overall OpEx.

Got it. Got it. And sir, my last question is on this asset tenure. Now if you look at repayment rate for last 3 quarters, it has been hovering around 25%, which used to be 20%, which essentially means that incrementally, we are disbursing loans with lower tenure. And when we look at the average ticket size, we're sort of going up, which again means that the share of 3-year plus loan will be increasing. So just wanted to know why repayment rates are higher for last 2, 3 quarters.

So essentially, what happens, Renish, is that when you focus on an existing set of customers, so there are customers moving out and adding. The process that we follow is that existing customers, the moment is ready for our second cycle, which is after 14 months, which means that about 60% of the loan should have retired for the customer to be eligible for a second cycle which means that essentially if I lend to my existing customers, my overall tenor will reduce because there are loans which will close and there are new loans which will get created.

Got it. So pre closures are higher is what you are going to highlight.

Versus let's say, if I would have gone to an open market and acquired new to Fusion customers.

Got it. Okay, okay. And lastly, given in absolute terms, our repayment rate is close to INR 2,000-odd crores on a quarterly basis. When do you see our disbursement sort of start matching the repayment number?

So I think, Renish, we are seeing continuous improvement in disbursements and the numbers that have got -- that we have reported in Q2, we already see a significant upside in Q3 as well. I think somewhere in Q3 end or beginning of Q4 is where we think that the disbursements will take over the book degrowth or what you are mentioning as repayments. So somewhere, I think, between December and Jan is the, if, let's say, you're asking for an exact month, I think between December and Jan is what we will -- we should encounter that.

The next question comes from the line of Rajiv Mehta from Yes Securities.

Congrats on better numbers than previous quarter. Sir, my first question is on the low rates from current to par zero bucket. So it has actually increased from 54 basis points to 60 basis points in Q2. And I believe the needle moving market has been UP, which is our largest geography also in terms of operations. And when I look at UP's collection efficiency between March and September, I think you gave March, June and September collection efficiency in the presentation. The collection efficiency has actually slightly gone down for the last 6 weeks in UP. So just wanted to understand what is happening in UP because when I look at your reported collection efficiency, instead of improving month-on-month it's actually come off a bit. And plus the new portfolio in UP must be giving you higher efficiency, which also implies that the older portfolio collection efficiency seems to be still coming down. So if you can just give us more color of why UP is dragging our overall flow rates and collection efficiency? And what is the underlying issue and when this will be resolved?

Okay. Sure, Rajiv. So I think first, let me -- so while your -- the question that you have asked is on the net flow rate, which presumably you are referring to 0.54 in the last quarter going to 0.6 in this quarter...

And the core seems to be UP last year, yes.

I'll just come to that, Rajiv. I'll just explain. I think it's a very valid question. And so there are 2 important things that we need to look at. One, I will first explain the collection efficiency, the way industry reports it, which is on value because most -- which is on POS. Now if you see the new book which is now 63% to 65% of the overall value, that collection efficiency is at about 99.47. And the old book has about 98. So from a value perspective, which what I said and explained in my notes, our collection efficiency is 98.89 for this quarter. That's how the industry calculates which is gross roll forward on POS level, which has improved from 98.65 which is a 20 to 23 basis points improvement over previous quarter. That's one. Now the net -- so also, the way our demand happens is that the demand stretches through the entire month, which is even the last day of the month. And because of which, there are some customers who will flow forward. In the month or in the quarter, our roll forward rates were much better than the previous quarter that you can understand from the collection efficiency. So the roll forward rates were in the previous quarter were 1.35%, while in this quarter was 1.12%. And that is why the collection efficiency has improved to 98.88 from the previous of 96.65. Now the rollback and that is how you get the net roll forward, the rollback has come down by about 15 basis points. okay, despite the overall improvement on collection efficiency. And that is why there is a marginal increase. However, I think the way we look at it is that we are not losing much of sleep on this. The first bucket collection efficiency if you see where the roll forward rates continue to be upwards of 60%, we are at least 10% to 20% better than the industry. So I think this is -- if, let's say, we were to like we focus on 98.85 as collection efficiency over, let's say, 98.65 in the previous quarter, we are now nearing 99% the way industry reach it on POS on the entire portfolio. And I have also given you the breakup. For the last quarter, the rollback was about 15 bps lower because of which this issue happened. And that was more to do with the festivals and the floods that happened and there were not any specific issue. The -- now let's come to UP that you are explaining, asking. Now UP if you see continues to be -- we have explained that our collection efficiency at a number level is 98.47 which is 98.85 for the quarter. UP continues to be above the country benchmark, which is by about 15 basis points. Certain parts of UP, which are adjoining Uttarakhand and Eastern UP were little impacted, but that doesn't cause any concern going forward. And if you see in October, we are back to -- it is higher than the overall country by about 30 basis points UP specifically. This is despite festivals and Diwali and everything else in October in UP. So we continue to be strong on UP. And it was -- there are no concerns that we see and UP continues to be 20 bps higher than the industry level. And I think what we will do, Rajiv, is from next time onwards, we didn't want to in between change what we are reporting. We will start reporting on POS from next, the way the industry reports. And I think that will give you a much better sense. But I thought we will not change it in between. That's why I mentioned it in my call details. But next time onwards, we will start reporting. But let me reinforce our collection efficiency the way industry measures on POS is 98.87 to 98.88 for the quarter, which is a 20 basis point improvement.

Okay. Clear about that. And on broadly, when I look at the disbursement on a monthly run rate basis, I mean, September, you did about 430, which is in your micro finance. October, you said the collections were better for UP. But one can expect this month and month pickup in the disbursement number with the approval rates getting better and hence, overall figure for disbursements would start climbing up for the for Q3 and then similarly in Q4 and which is why you also replied in the previous question that your book will stop degrowing from December year, mostly January onwards. That's coming back to growth.

Absolutely, Rajiv, and that's one of the reasons when we presented to the Board the details, the confidence that the Board got on our credit guardrails, which are -- which continue to be at least plus 2 stronger than the industry. And that is why we called that second tranche of INR 400 crores on the rights issue because we are confident of growth on the credit guardrails now.

Okay. And why did the release management overlay? I mean I know -- I mean, it was supposed to get released at some point in time. But in a quarter, just coming back to the flows were stable, I mean we hadn't seen much improvement, you started releasing management overlay. But then now that you've already started utilizing, can we assume full utilization of the balance in the next 2, 3 quarters? And even adjusted for this and even adjusted for when the whole write-offs get finished, maybe another 2 quarters of write-offs also getting completed, where do you think that the ECL rates, ECL coverage on Stage 2 and Stage 3 will get eventually settled in the next 2, 3 quarters, which then becomes your recurring rate of provision in the next year?

Great. So first thing, let me state, see the way -- the reason why we are giving the floor rate is for you to -- for everybody to get a sense of how much that is going forward, we are able to roll back. And we are consistently measuring ourselves. However, it is also important to look at collection efficiency. Now collection efficiency, I have explained is now closer to 99%, which is a significant improvement to the overall credit cost has come down. So when we -- and this was in Q1 as well that when we looked at our ECL model and the management overlays, you understand both of them go hand in hand. What we realized was that -- so there is an over provisioning that we have done or, let's say, we have taken a much higher provisioning because of what happened in the previous year. But at the same time, keeping the advice from everybody was that there is -- between the 2, there is no point in creating both. So there is a management overlay as well as there is a higher provisioning that we are doing, and that provisioning is 15% higher than, let's say, what others are. Now the -- or the industry is. So which means that there is -- between the 2, we should be balancing. And deliberately, so the guidance that we are giving here on the call also is that we will constructively over the few quarters, continue to release this management overlay in line with the ECL provisioning and reduced overall better collection efficiency. We will continue to do that. And we have not used all of it, so we have explained there that overall INR 60 crores of management overlay. So we have utilized INR 15 crores. And the balance, we will continue to utilize rather than using a big chunk in one particular quarter. So from a -- as a percentage of the overall income, this is very insignificant part. While you see the loss reducing, but if you see overall income that we have generated, against that using INR 15 crores is a very small amount. Yes. So that's -- I hope that concerns the 2 queries that you have put, Rajiv.

No, no. I think -- so one part is, of course, utilization of management overlay, that's very clear. So once you utilize the management overlay and this INR 45 crores goes out of the ECL balance. And then, of course, the write-offs, the pending write-offs will also get finished in the next 2 quarters. Then where does the ECL coverage of Stage 2 and Stage 3 settles?

So if you look at -- so let's -- from a -- let's move from a percentage to an actual absolute level in Stage 1 and Stage 2, which we have shown. So if you see last -- and I'm saying we can't give you an exact guidance, but if you look at the trends, last quarter, INR 172 crores, Stage 2 coming down to INR 140 crores. Stage INR 383 crores to INR 294 crores, which means that there is significant recovery happening because technically entire Stage 3 should be written off but we wrote off INR 240 crores and now write-off is not a discretionary thing. We write off everything that goes into 180. I think if you take these 2, 3 things into tandem, you will understand that there is a recovery that is happening pre write-off also. The third thing is that we have also reported a better write-back number over the previous quarter. So INR 13 crores over merely INR 4 crores to INR 6 crores in the previous 2 quarters. And this will continue to improve. So I think that the discussions that we internally had with the Board and the auditors, the confidence came from these 3 areas. The efficiencies in 90-plus and the write-off rates, the improvement in write-back and the collection efficiency in the X bucket. Rajiv, coming back to your first point. we are -- you should look at flow forward rates in tandem with all the other matrices and not stand-alone. That is my suggestion.

No, no. I think that confusion was happening because [Foreign Language] and we were looking -- and then POS movement. And then the POS movement was reconciling with the volume movement. So now once you start reporting consistently, I think then that question will not come.

Absolutely. And that is why I thought that we will not change it in the Investor Day because there will be confusion. But however, we have mentioned in the -- our analyst call.

The next question comes from the line of Kushagra Goel from CLSA.

Firstly, this is some data keeping question. Could you tell us the interest reversal this quarter?

Interest reversal is around INR 19 crores, excluding write-offs, INR 19 crores to INR 20 crores, right?

Got it, sir. So on your customers' disbursement this time, you said around 75% is to existing and 25% to new. In the new, how much is new to credit and what is new to Fusion?

Right. So Kushagra, around -- out of that 25%, 13% to 14% is new to credit, and about 11% to 12% is new to Fusion.

Okay, sir. Got it. So now coming to my first question. It's regarding this disbursement only. So you have mentioned that you expect disbursements to overtake your repayments by December or January. On that, do you expect this similar existing to new sort of percentages to remain? Or do you expect new to go up? And how do you see that playing out?

So Kushagra, there are efforts that we have put in to ensure that new also goes up because we see that new to credit behaves quite well. And if, let's say, the credit metrics continue to be strong, we see confidence in new to credit. But you also understand that, let's say, we were deciding to scale up, we should spend a little more time on scaling up a new to credit or new to Fusion. Not that the customer is overleveraged, but just from our own confidence perspective to there are significant number of customers which are only Fusion and Fusion plus 1, which are currently requiring or not been so taken care of and require more attention from our side. So I think the way, hence, the strategy that we have laid down that for the next 1, 1.5 quarters, you may see this percentage continue to be at about 75%. But the way we are making changes in quarter 4 onwards, you will see this tempering. Eventually, a go-to number, we think should be somewhere between 60% to 65% from Fusion customers. And the balance, 35% should be new to Fusion and within that, new to credit.

Okay. Okay. Got it. But that you will expect from fourth quarter or from next year essentially?

Yes, because there are a lot of -- so it is not just by design, it is just that from an existing customer perspective, there's an opportunity we have. So why should we neglect our existing customers and go after new customers. That's the only thing, not that there's anything wrong in the second strategy. It's just from an advertising perspective.

Got it, sir. Just one more question. So I just wanted to know if the industry or different players have hiked new loan rates because of this increased sort of stress situation or credit cost situation. So I just wanted to know about that.