GE Vernova T&D India Limited (522275) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to GE T&D India Limited Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Tanvi Gupta from GE T&D India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, sir. Good evening, everyone. We welcome you all to the GE T&D India Limited Earnings Call for the Second Quarter and Half Year of Financial Year Ending '23-'24. I'm Tanvi Gupta from GE T&D India Finance and Investor Relationship team. We're delighted to have you all here on this call. During the call, we'll discuss the company's financial performance, including operational highlights. We'll share the key updates and we'll address the questions, if you have any. Before we begin, I would like to highlight a few important notes for today's call. Firstly, as we just have declared the results of the second quarter and half year of the financial year '23-'24, the said results are now available on our company website. Further, we have also prepared an analyst presentation for the quarter, which will be under discussion during the call. The said presentation we have already mailed to you and is also available on our company website. Also, I would like to take a moment to remind everyone that today's discussion may contain few forward-looking statements which are subject to risks and uncertainties. These statements are based on our current expectations, and actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied. We encourage you to refer to our public filings and disclosures for a comprehensive understanding of the factors that could impact our future performance. With this, now let me introduce the GE T&D India management team available on this call. During the call, we will be joined by Mr. Sandeep Zanzaria, CEO and MD of the company. Along with him, we are also joined by Mr. Sushil Kumar, Whole-Time Director and CFO of the company; Mr. Abhishek Srivastava, Head Business Operations; Mr. Anshul Madaan, Communications Leader; and Ms. Anupriya Garg, Company Secretary of GE T&D India Limited. We'll be having a detailed question-and-answer session towards the end of the presentation where you can ask your questions and seek clarifications on any topic of your interest. Thank you once again for joining us today. We appreciate your continued support and trust in GE T&D India Limited. Now I'll and over the call to Sandeep for his opening remarks. Over to you, Sandeep.

Thanks, Tanvi, and good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today. I hope you and your loved ones are doing well. Wishing you a happy Diwali in advance. Welcome to our quarterly call for discussion on the results of Q2 of financial year '23-'24. I'll be sharing the top highlights, and subsequent to that, my other team members will take you through the numbers and other operational details. Starting the orders, we are excited to share the continued surge in our order book for Q2 driven by India's energy transition needs and the government's focus on the renewable energy scheme. We secured orders worth INR 11 billion compared to an approximately INR 5 billion in the corresponding quarter of the previous financial year, registering a growth of more than 100% year-on-year. With this, our backlog at the end of the quarter is quite healthy and has improved from INR 37 billion to INR 43 billion. This growth is a testament to our capacity to meet the evolving needs of power -- India's power market. A noteworthy highlight here is that we have received orders -- received this growth in orders in all our segments, which is like projects, high-voltage products, that is GIS, AIS products, power transformers and also grid automation. This increase in our order reinforces our position as one of the market leaders in the segment. Apart from our regular inflow of orders from export market, we've received a 225 kV GIS supply order from Senegal. These orders not only demonstrate the trust our customers place in us, but also highlight our ability to deliver high-quality, reliable grid equipment that are critical to the strengthening of India's transmission infrastructure. Our sales almost remained flat as -- same as in the corresponding quarter of the previous financial year of around INR 7 billion. But you will note a significant increase in our profit before tax of approximately INR 503 million compared to INR 101 million for the corresponding Q2 of FY '22-'23 and INR 889 million for H1 '23-'24 against INR 203 million for H1 '22-'23. This achievement can be attributed to the previous strategic initiatives aligned with best practices. Firstly, our continued focus on adopting a lean mindset and implementing operational efficiencies has allowed us to streamline our processes and optimize resource allocation. Additionally, our unwavering commitment to enhance our execution capability has translated into improved cost management, ultimately strengthening our bottom line. Another highlight was that our net debt as of the quarter ending September 2023 stands at INR 114 million, making a reduction of more than INR 1 billion compared to June 2023 and a reduction of INR 1.6 billion compared to March '23. I would like to stress that cash remains our key focus in all our business processes. The accomplishment of this quarter not only highlights our expertise but also showcase our ability to provide innovative solutions that meets the evolving demands of India's energy landscape. At GE T&D, we take pride in being at the forefront of this transformative journey, and we look forward to a future where we recognize that the energy sector is evolving at an unprecedented pace and our strategy is closely aligned with India's national goals and global trends. As we move forward, our strategic focus remains firmly centered on driving innovation, efficiency and reliability in India's rapidly evolving energy landscape. We are dedicated to co-creating a sustainable and resilient energy future for India and eagerly anticipate the certain opportunities that lie ahead. Thank you, and now I invite Abhishek, our Project Business Head, to share further details and operational highlights. Abhishek?

So thanks, Sandeep. Good evening to all. So I will take you all through the key operational success that we have achieved in the second quarter of the financial year. So we added the 4 key substations to the Indian transmission network. The first one was UPPTCL Sahupuri, which is a 220 kV GIS built in the city of Varanasi and serving the close by area and vicinity. The second was Warora Kurnool Transmission Limited substation project in which we commissioned 2 key substations: one was at Warangal and other one at Chilakaluripeta. This was a very critical scheme, additional interconnecting link which was formed to import power from -- into the Southern region from Western region. These are 765 x 400 kV AIS substations, and the setup of this substation scheme has added 3,500 MVA of transformation capacity. So the scope that we executed was building up a substation along with supplier, transformer and reactor. So this is a very key project. And if I talk about the criticality of this, this is the larges 765 kV double-circuit TBCB project done in India. And it was great for GE to be part -- to partner with Adani in building up this substation. And this have seen a lot of challenging times. So finally, we commissioned the 2 key substations in this. And the fourth one was KSEB Shornur in which we set up a 110 kV GIS substation for supplying power to the district of Palakkad. So these are few of the key highlights, operational success wherein we commissioned a substation and handed over these substations to the utilities. So with this, I hand over to Sushil to take us through further details.

Thanks, Abhishek. Good evening, everyone. I wish you a very happy Diwali. Sandeep talked about our strong financial performance in his beginning speech. I'll be taking a few pages on our financial performance to make a deep dive on some of the key numbers that we delivered in this quarter. First, on the Page 5 of the investor presentation talking about orders, which we have -- where we have delivered more than 100% growth compared to the last -- second quarter of the last financial year. So in the last year, we had delivered about INR 5 billion of orders. But this year, in the second quarter, we have about INR 10.8 billion of orders. This growth is across the board, across all our business segments and has been quite diverse in nature. We have received orders from private customers, government customers, we have received orders from the export market, we have received orders from the EPC customers and for various business lines. The details of the projects are given in presentation, I'll not repeat them, but just wanted to highlight that it's a very strong order growth versus last year across the board. Just one more clarification, that we recently made a stock exchange declaration of receiving INR 5 billion orders. That order achievement is for the month of October. So it's not a part of the numbers that we are presenting today. That will be counted as order booking in quarter 3 of the financial year. Now talking about the P&L performance in the next page. While the revenues remain flat at around INR 7 billion for the quarter, we saw a significant improvement in our operations with the initiatives taken in the last few years, as Sandeep highlighted, which included areas like lean, productivity improvement, change in the mix of our orders, taking the secure orders with better terms and so on. All those initiatives have helped us to achieve an EBITDA of about 10% to the extent of INR 698 million in the quarter, representing more than 100% increase versus last year. So the EBITDA has gone up by 2x versus the last year. Same improvement has flown to the profit before tax. We achieved about INR 503 million of profit before tax, which is 5x -- almost 5x of the quarterly performance in last financial year. At the same time, Sandeep highlighted about our net debt coming significantly down. Last year quarter 2, we had about INR 3.6 billion of outstanding debt, and we have made a significant progress in the last 1 year. We have repaid most of the debt and we are at around breakeven -- close to a breakeven debt situation, a no debt situation, INR 114 million of debt as of end of September. It's a very improved position versus last 1 year. We have made a significant progress. Similar improvement across the board on H1 performance. H1's revenues were INR 14 billion, higher by 9% versus the last year H1. EBITDA at INR 1.3 billion against 2x of the last year performance. Profit before tax is around INR 889 million, 4x of the profit before tax in the last year's first half. So made a significant progress. Moving to the next page where we have given the split of our order booking and revenue between domestic and exports segment. For the INR 10.8 billion orders that we booked in the current financial Q2, we have 24% of the orders coming from the export market and about 76% orders coming from domestic market. On revenue side, 29% of the revenues is from the exports segment and 71% revenue is from the domestic market. INR 33 billion orders in hand are about 75% of the orders from the private segment customers, 15% of the orders from the central utilities and PSU, 10% of the orders in hand from the state utilities. So this is overall the quarter 2 numbers. And now we'll be happy to answer your questions.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Renu Baid Pugalia from IIFL Securities.

Sir, congratulations on profitable growth. My first question is, if you look on the execution side, are there still any headwinds in the domestic market in terms of stepping up the execution run rate? Or it's more to do in terms of the entire supply chain and the project time lines?

So, Renu, we are not seeing any headwinds primarily on the supply chain. Definitely the supply chain is slightly extended, but the orders, what we have received, are taking into consideration the time frame, which today suppliers are committing to us.

Got it. Can you share some color in terms of the broad revenue mix for the current quarter in terms of product, projects, automation solutions? Because that is clearly reflected in the gross margin profile that you've reported this quarter.

So we have about 12% of the revenue coming from the services and software business put together. And just give me -- maybe I'll answer before the next question about the split of rest 88% between the product and project business.

Sure. Secondly, if you see, a pretty impressive improvement in your working capital and reduction of debt on book. Sir, to what extent you think this improvement is sustainable? And is it also a function of the step-up in orders that you've seen through the cycle of advances and the entire working capital cycle, cash conversion cycle has seen a pickup in terms of improvement on books?

Yes. So it is a factor of all the improvement actions that we have taken, meaning advances, yes. If we look at the financial statement around -- in the INR 1.6 billion cash that we have generated in the first half, around INR 0.5 billion or about INR 50 crores is coming from the down payment that we have received in the new order. [ Rest of the improvement ] is mostly from the actions across the board, be it on account of realization of past dues or trade receivables, reduction in the inventory through the lean initiatives and also making sure, as you've been talking about in the conference calls for last many quarters, we talked about selectivity of the order, which means secure payment terms, the payment terms with lesser credit period and so on. So that means the profits which we realize is also getting converted into cash. So cash realization is a combination of profit converted to cash, plus working capital improvement across the board.

Got it. And lastly, Sandeep, if you can also share some inputs. You have been talking pretty positive in terms of the domestic order pipeline improving on a strong note, the GEC projects coming through and exports also picking up. So any comments in terms of how the order pipeline is looking for the next 6 to 12 months? And do we perceive any slowdown in the early part of the next fiscal year because of elections?

So we're looking at the -- I think whatever run rate we are maintaining, we are looking at a quite healthy growth or sustainable order intake pipeline, at least for the next 6 to 12 months, Renu. That will be -- because GEC projects and all. Of course, now they have started coming up at a regular interval and the finalization is also happening. But with the visibility, at least we're pretty confident of the next 12 months, yes, we will be able to maintain the run rate.

Coming back to your first question on the split of revenue between project and product. So around 60% to 65% of the revenue are from the product business, 20% to 25% of the revenue from the project business and the rest revenue from the services and software business.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ Janak Lotwala ], an individual Investor.

Am I audible?

Yes.

Yes, yes.

First of all, many congratulations, team, for a great set of results. My first question is around the operating margins, per se. Also, while there is a significant operating leverage that seems to be kicking in and helping our net profitability quarter-on-quarter, what is the sustainable margin in terms of EBITDA margin we are looking at? Or we look to -- what is our healthy EBITDA margin, per se?

So the current margin of, let's say, gross profit of around 36%, 37% and 10% EBITDA is already healthy if you compare with the past many years of performance. However, having said that, management always endeavor to perform better. And this can have multiple ways of improvement, first, targeting better profitability in the orders, then many execution initiatives that Sandeep talked about including lean, productivity, efficiency and so on. And the last one being -- last couple of actions being, first of all, the control over fixed expenses of the structure cost and the working capital improvement, which then helps to save the financial cost. So we'll continue to work on the improvement as a management on these numbers.

So we see, going this into double digits, we expect more improvement on this front in quarters to come, you're saying?

I'm not giving a forward-looking guidance here. What I'm saying is that our endeavor is to always improve. But the quarter-on-quarter number will always depend on the mix of project, products and services. We will continue to work on these directions.

Okay, sir. Fair enough. And my second question is around the order book. While our order book seems to be very healthy, around INR 4,000 crores, INR 4,500 crores of orders pending, any particular number there that you are looking at in executing over next -- period of next 12 months?

So basically -- [ Janak ], Sandeep here. So basically, what we do is that we keep on assessing the customer requirement in terms of what are the delivery needs and also what kind of capacities we have. Do we have the slot for that? And accordingly, we take the order. If you really look at our run rate, I think we are looking at an order intake of about close to INR 1,000 crores. So eventually, the run rate which needs to go in few quarters when it gets stabilized, again, depending upon the product and project mix and all, will be somewhere near that number. That is the expectation.

[Operator Instructions] We have our next follow-up question from the line of Ms. Renu Baid Pugalia from IIFL Securities.

Sir, if you look at this quarterly run rate of INR 1,000 crores of inflows being sustainable, and October, again, we have a large order of INR 500 crores announced in addition to the base order that we continue, do you think some time coming in the -- going to the next fiscal year we may start feeling a pinch on the capacity side? And are there any capacity expansion plans? So what are the current utilization levels do you think in the next 12, 18 months should the new order flow momentum sustain? Will that trigger some capacity debottlenecking in certain product lines, et cetera?

So, Renu, we keep on -- like I said, we keep on analyzing that, yes, in which segment the orders are coming and then how these capacities can be debottlenecked. And of course, one of the main principle of lean is also that how to debottleneck and how to improve the productivity. So it's basically kind of a mindset change also. And on our global -- under the global directive, we keep on working on that. Depending upon the situation, yes, we will be looking into the time frame. And also, we are also trying to see that which capacities are -- which area in the market is something where we need to target more in terms of improving the margins and improving the margin profile.

Right. So for instance, for the transformer segment of the market, the domestic market is always tight in terms of capacities and we were also expecting large export orders on this side. Do you think, at least within the product business line, transformer segment could see some capacity enhancements?

So it will be very difficult tell now. But yes, in case if we face such a constraint, definitely that is something which we look forward to.

Got it. And secondly, can you also share certain updates in terms of progress on the HVDC projects? Bhadla is already seeing even pricing -- price-based submission happening there. So where are we in terms of project time lines? Do we expect any delays? And also on the export opportunity on the HVDC products, how is -- how are those developments shaping up?

So for Bhadla, the Fatehpur, as you know, the bidding has already started for the developer. Of course, Bhadla, Fatehpur, being such a large project, requires a huge amount of system studies, and also creating a complete bid of an HVDC takes time. So we are working with few developers who are there. And also regarding the export market, yes, definitely we keep on analyzing with our global teams. Because for HVDC and all those applications, it is ultimately the acceptance of these international customers of our local factories is also a critical point. So based on that, we keep on analyzing, and wherever it is beneficial for the company, those orders will be targeted and will be taken.

Next question is from the line of [ Janak Lotwala ], an individual investor.

Sir, I have a follow-up question around the order book and business environment that we are operating in. Again, while we have a very strong and healthy order book and there are a lot of tailwinds in the business, if you were to describe, what are the certain 3, 4 top factors that can be the -- that can be give key sources of risk to the execution over the next 12, 24 months? What can be the 3, 4 areas of uncertainties or risks that we have to keep in mind as investors?

So I think today, [ Janak ], the biggest risks that we see in today's environment based on our experience of the last 1 to 2 years is geopolitical factors. For example, the Russia-Ukraine war, it kind of disrupted the whole supply chain in a very big way. So that is one area where we keep on constantly monitoring because that is something which can impact to a great extent the supply chain situation. So that is one. And second also for many of our product and subcomponent side, we are also dependent on single-source suppliers. So that also the company is working to develop alternate sources and try to see that we derisk ourselves from any such situation where the supplier is not able to perform. And apart from that also the way the renewable market is not growing, and along with that, the private transmission is growing. So like in the power generation segment, there was a time when lot of people entered and then there was a challenge on the financial side. So we try -- and as Sushil said, that we try to make a proper assessment and ensure that with the companies which we are entering into and doing business are very robust and under a set of conditions which clearly minimizes the risk for us.

Got it, got it. So similar to what you mentioned about sourcing from single suppliers, do we have any customer concentration risk as well? What are the revenues that our top 5, 10 customers are contributing to? And are there any measures on that front? What does our customer profile look like in terms of revenue concentration?

So if I tell you that we don't have this type of a situation for us because I think you would have seen the presentation also, we have kind of a very diversified portfolio of customers. So like we're doing with generating companies, we're doing with EPC companies, we're doing with private transmission companies. We are doing part with state utilities so...

And industrial.

And industrial also, for example, Hindalcos and Reliances of the world. So it is that, that we have a very diversified portfolio in terms of customers. So today, we don't have any customer where we are dependent, like on one customer we are dependent for 25%, 30% of our revenue. We don't have any such customer in our portfolio.

Next question is from the line of Abhijeet from YES Securities.

Sir, my question is on the supply-demand balance from a slightly longer-term perspective. We are seeing demand spurt in the last 2, 3 quarters. We have seen increased tendering activity, increased tendering pipeline pertaining to GEC. So sir, demand is picking up, and in line with that, a lot of players have put up capacities in transformers, switchgears, et cetera. Sir, going forward, let's say, from a perspective of 2 to 3 years, sir, when do you see these capacities catching up with the demand and therefore having an impact on pricing and margins? So right now, we are in the cycle of expanding margins. I'm sure the bidding margins are also pretty attractive in this cycle. But sir, since a lot of players are expanding their capacities, how can we look at this scenario going forward in the next 2 to 3 years?

So I think going forward, when we look 2 to 3 years, of course, we cannot create, for example -- suddenly, we cannot decide, for example, when we look at GEC corridors, et cetera, at one point of time, GEC corridors were taking more than 1 year for decision-making and sometimes it was more than 1 year also for decision-making. So first, we have to also see the sustainability of GEC corridor at a regular interval of ordering. That is one thing that we have to have that confidence. That is first aspect. Second, also, when you try to build up the capacities, it is not something which can be built in 6 to 8 month's time. So we also have to see the kind of new capacities building up, how much time it takes. And also, it does not only these capacities which have to be built up, it is also you have to see that you have the back end, the supply chain, how you are comfortable with that supply chain in that specific product to support you in terms of those deliveries. That is the second factor. Third and the most important thing, Abhijeet, is that we keep on analyzing this thing and then there are a lot of factors how you debottleneck your capacities and try to increase on an incremental basis. So that's the constant endeavor we keep on doing, and in this scenario also, at least that is what will be the focus of the company as well.

Right. Sir, what -- I mean, if you can point out what is the current capacity utilization for us in the higher kV category, like 765 kV? Is it possible to quantify that?

So it is very difficult to quantify, Abhijeet. But I would only put it at like pretty high.

You're saying pretty high?

Yes.

Okay, okay. And secondly, sir, on the state -- order book from the state side, so last 4, 5 quarters sequentially I've seen these state order book decline quarter-on-quarter. Now it is around -- somewhere around INR 400-odd crores. So is this something a conscious decision, that we are going slow on state orders because of certain issues that we are facing?

Yes. So Abhijeet, we have taken a conscious decision to move from state and to concentrate more on private sector because of the flexibility it offers. And so state is more like L1 bidding, reverse auction and other things. So therefore the conscious decision was made to shift more from state towards more from private. And I think the improvement in results, what you're seeing, is one of the actions that was taken and resulted into these results.

Next question is from the line of Harshit Kapadia from Elara Capital.

Congrats for a good set of numbers. Sir, just a clarification on HVDC. So what CEA has approved is of INR 13,200 crores as a total project size for the Bhadla part. Now how much would be the HVDC portion within that and what would be the EPC portion? And will it be given to a single company or could there be multiple companies who would be winning it? And if you can highlight, how could be the L1 or L2 ratio would be?

So, Harshit, first of all, we're not aware how CEA has reached that budget. So it's probably better for them to answer. But CEA has taken out this tender on TBCB route. So -- and TBCB route, when it will be awarded, it will be awarded to a developer, and the scope of developer will be from acquiring land to building and commissioning the project and running the project which is currently for 25 years, including building the transmission line. So this depends upon which developer wins. Because that developer, for example, developer X to developer Y, may have a different level of procurement. Somebody can say that it is civil work they will do. Somebody might split line into 4 parts, somebody might split line into 2 parts, somebody can give the HVDC terminal without construction, somebody can give HVDC terminal with construction. So that -- sorry, so this is the kind of an individual strategy of each and every developer. So it will be very difficult for us to comment on that.

But any understanding on what is the cost of, let's say, an HVDC line, HVDC terminal or HVDC substation if it is coming up? Any rough understanding would be very helpful, sir.

No. So it will be too premature because we have just started engaging and it's at a very preliminary stage. So for such a large project, it is very difficult to make an assessment of the price as of now.

And do you expect that every year, there would be 1 HVDC project which could be coming out for tendering? Or do you think there will be a span of it over the next 7 to 8 years? It won't be over every year.

Yes. I think for next 3 to 4 years, yes, definitely there will be one every year.

Okay, okay. And given that Europe has also looking in HVDC pipeline, do you think the aggression among the companies like GE as well as its competitor would be not so aggressive, would be comparatively much softer? Or what's your perception over there, sir? Because the pipeline is better in India as well as abroad so -- and players are very handful.

So I would say it is too early to discuss about the bidding strategy, and on a public forum, these things cannot be disclosed. It is very difficult to comment on what is going to be the competitive strategy as well.

Understood, understood. And sir, secondly, on your strategy on going more towards private. So is there a number that you have in mind that we want a certain amount of business coming from private? For the transformer side, right now, what is the ratio? And what's your target, sir?

I will not use the word private, but I will say that what we are today looking forward to is more, for example, customers where you have assured payment, where you have timely payment coming, where the processes are very well aligned. So if I look at, for example, Power Grid Corporation, they are like one of the best paymasters with a very aligned process, very defined and a transparent process. So I think it's not between a private or a public. Public, it is basically more that -- where the process and payments do come on much faster time lines.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Shyam Maheshwari from Aditya Birla Mutual Fund.

Sir, congratulations on a good set of numbers. Just wanted to understand, we have taken an approval for some related party kind of transactions as per the last annual report. Wanted to check if there has been any update on the same. Have we been receiving inquiries from those 2 related parties that were mentioned?

So I think, Shyam, so if there will be any update, it will be given through -- I think we will be communicating. As of today, there is no update.

We have taken one -- this is Sushil. We have taken one approval for large order. And that is still under negotiation, it's not yet finalized.

Next question is from the line of Umesh Raut from PhillipCapital.

Sir, first of all, congratulations for the good set of numbers. My first question pertains to competition from Chinese players...

Sorry to interrupt Mr. Umesh, there is some background noise from your end. Your voice is not clear.

Is it fine now? Hello?

Yes, it is a little better.

My first question is actually pertaining to Chinese competition and how it is right now? Do you see any intermediate pressure coming in from products from China?

Umesh, we are still not able to hear you. Could you please speak a bit louder or join from another...

Sure. Maybe I'll join through other...

Sure, Umesh. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Tanay Rasal from PhillipCapital.

I just got 2 questions. The first question, in the current scenario, are you seeing any competition from the Chinese players? Are there any products being dumped from the Chinese players, as such?

No, we have not.

Okay, okay. Sir, what will be your market share presently for the Chinese players in transformers, like products?

I think it would be very less. Because now at least in TBCB and other utility segment, Chinese are not allowed to participate. So it will be very miniscule.

Okay. Sir, and given the integration of the renewables will be in the large scale now, so how do you see the STATCOM opportunity? How big is that opportunity?

So STATCOM, we see as a big opportunity because renewable integration definitely is going to require a lot of STATCOM projects, especially where the large renewable projects are getting connected. Since we've seen 1 or 2 projects which have got finalized, I think going forward, maybe after kind of 6 months, 8 months time frame, we will see a much larger volume of STATCOMs getting finalized.

Okay, okay. And sir, if we look from the order share from the PGCL, so what are the areas that you're getting the orders from the PGCL? And how big that package can be from PGCL?

So we're getting orders from PGCL. For example, we get orders of transformers, we get reactors for projects. We've got 1 -- 2 orders for building the -- one for building a 765 kV GIS substation, one for building a 132 kV GIS substation. So it's basically multiple products. And then from the regions, we keep on getting orders for products as well. So it's multiple and it depends upon what kind of requirements. It can be from INR 1 crores to INR 200 crores, anything.

We have our next follow-up question from the line of [ Janak Lotwala ], an individual investor.

Sir, my question is around the order book participation. When we decide to build for a certain business or participate for a certain order or a business, first, what is our hit rate? And second, what gives us -- or what is our right to win that order? What differentiates our offering or us from our competition?

So I think, Janak, it is very difficult to define a hit rate primarily because we have multiple lines of businesses. And for example, we might sell a relay, also we might sell a control relay panel, also SCADA, so -- breaker also, project also, transformer also. So it's very difficult. That is one thing. Because different products, different systems have different competition, different number of players. So it is very difficult to capture the hit rate. Second thing, again, as I said that it is very difficult to also tell that what is our entitlement to win that order. But like for example, when you go to few utilities there -- some utilities will have L1 pricing, some utilities will have kind of a reverse auction. Some EPC customers, it's on a negotiated basis. At some places, it is at prebid agreement also. Like with an EPC player, we will say that, "Okay, this is a prebid agreement for this scope. If you win, I'll win with you." So this is basically a different market strategy depending upon different markets, different customers, different products. So it's a very dynamic, evolving situation. So it's very difficult to explain it. This isn't one thing that which defines that, "Okay, with this bullet, we will be able to achieve all our objectives."

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Ms. Tanvi Gupta for closing comments.

Thank you all for joining us today for the GE T&D India Limited earnings call. We hope the insights provided by our people have been informative and valuable to you. We value the trust and support of our investors and analysts and ensure to remain committed to maintain transparent communications and fostering stronger relationship. If you have any further questions or require additional information, please do not hesitate to reach out to me or our Communications Leader, Anshul Madaan, at the mail IDs available on our company website. Once again, thank you for your participation in today's call. I'm wishing you all and to your family, happy Diwali festivities. We look forward to your cordial support as we embark our exciting journey ahead. Thank you.

Thank you very much. On behalf of GE T&D India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.