General Motors Company (GM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Audio Gap] fireside chat. Just to introduce this. In October 2021, GM laid out a plan to double the size of the company by 2030, getting to $275 billion to $315 billion of revenue in that time frame. And with higher margins, more like 12% to 14% versus the 8% average that we've seen between 2016 and 2021. Within that, they had an EV business growing to $90 billion, BrightDrop growing to $10 billion, high-margin software and services businesses reaching $20 billion to $25 billion, rideshare reaching $50 billion. So for the first time in my career covering this company and this industry, GM is targeting several very significant growth opportunities that look like they can really move the needle, even for a company that's as large as this. So we're very pleased to be welcoming GM's CEO, Mary Barra. Mary, thanks for taking the time for our fireside chat today.

It's really great to be here, Rod. And I agree with you, it's probably one of the most exciting times in GM's history, at least in my career. We do feel this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to really transform the business. And I think what a lot of people don't recognize is the investments we made 2, 3, 4 years ago are what is positioning us now to really capitalize on it. And we're already right in the middle of execution, making sure we have the right talent and strategy, footprint and partners in place as we go forward. So it's an exciting time.

Well, look, I'm hoping that just through this discussion, we can clarify for the investment community, what the opportunity is in GM stock? And to frame this, you've highlighted a lot of large growth opportunities. But our math suggests that there really hasn't been a change in GM's multiple, which is kind of interesting. It suggests -- it's a good thing actually from an investor's perspective, a new investor looking at it. Our math suggests that if GM can hold on to the margins that you've been talking about, and if we excluded the investments or losses from Cruise and just looked at the auto and the rest of the things, this company can generate $8 a share. At $47 or $48, the stock's trading at 6x that number, GM's average multiple historically over the past 10 years is 7x. So to us, it doesn't really look like the market is reflecting an above-average growth and margin profile. And there certainly doesn't seem to be that much consideration for what Cruise could become, which is also kind of interesting. And I know that you view this as an opportunity. So let's talk about some of those things. Let's talk about Cruise maybe first before we talk about the other growth drivers. So autonomous driving could be world-changing. It could conceivably become one of the most important competitive advantages that GM has. So I understand that it makes sense to keep that technology and to build off of it. And it sounds like you, in fact, had one of these almost an iPhone moment driving around in a Cruise vehicle in San Francisco. It really opens your eyes to what some of the services are and businesses that can be enabled by this technology, whether it's rideshare, delivery or maybe other things. Those things, in some cases, those services, in some cases, might be of interest to other investors who have historically not invested in GM. So I was hoping maybe we can just have a little bit of a conversation, as we look out over the next couple of years out to 2024, 2025, the technology is proven. You've gotten a business like rideshare off the ground. Do you see a scenario in which GM investors benefit directly from that or can invest directly in that kind of a thing? The services that you're standing up right now, is that a plausible outcome maybe that involves floating an asset like this? I'm hoping you can maybe clarify, how do investors get paid for this, what you're investing in today?

And when you're saying this, we're starting with Cruise?

We're talking about Cruise and the businesses that come off of Cruise.

But yes, yes, absolutely. Well, when we look at it, we just did a pretty thorough review of where we are with cruise. And I did -- I mean, it is -- I don't want to be overly dramatic of life changing. But when -- I've been in the vehicle since 2016, and the ride that I just was able to go on probably about a month ago now, the vehicle was just so confident in the way it drove. And not only the -- and it was like driving -- arriving with a really good human driver who's paying attention all the time. And I was just so impressed with how tremendous the progress has been on the technology. And so we now continue every day to take more and more people from the general public into the vehicle to take rides. We started waiting on that final permit. I don't think that's going to be too much longer now. And we'll be generating revenue. But we are really in the first turn of the race. And there's more to do to get to the full 7 by 7 of San Francisco and then to look at what it's going to take to go to additional cities. And so our view that we completed last year, at the end of last year, was not now because there's so much more to do. We can go faster as opposed to looking at a specific opportunity right now. But I want to be clear, it wasn't a not ever. It was a not now. And Board will continue -- management and the Board and Kyle and I will continue to look at what is the right thing to do. And it's all about creating value for our shareholders, and how we do that as it continues to evolve. Because I still think -- I'm surprised with the videos that we've put out there and have people experiencing it, and every -- almost everyone who's in the vehicle, it's a wow moment. And I don't think this is a minimal viable product. I think this is -- the technology is really quite sophisticated, and I think it will be a differentiator compared to others. It's kind of opaque right now of where everyone else is at. But just when you look at what others are doing versus what we're doing, I think it's -- I'm very proud of how much the Cruise team has accomplished. And so we're going to continue to work to scale and get to the full San Francisco and then continue beyond that. And we'll evaluate what is the best way to unlock that value. And it's a whole new business, like you said, of it's not just people movement, it's goods movement. It's how do we work with some of the strategic partners we already have with BrightDrop. Kyle and I have said, it could be as early as mid-decade that we have personal autonomous vehicles. And so we feel taking the technology a little bit further along and starting to round out how these businesses should operate, I think, will be another point where we reevaluate. And we're well capitalized right now. We've got strong financial support from our investors. General Motors, we are committed. I regularly say to Kyle, what could you do if you have more funding and it's available? So we're just, right now, speed is going to matter. And so we want to make sure we get the technology running and then we start to roll it out and then we'll evaluate all of the business opportunities. And right to your point, there are several that will come from this technology. I do think it will change the way people move.

So look, I mean, you're underselling this by saying it's not life changing. It clearly is. It's world-changing kind of technology. And I presume that this is something that when you're talking to the Board, when you're talking amongst the senior leadership at GM, you're acknowledging that this is a competitive advantage that GM has, that you would want to retain the technology, the core AI and the things that it could create, you want to retain that. But at the same time, I'm sensing just from the way you described the not now, there is nothing to spin off right now. So there is no business of rideshare today. So that makes sense. But are you kind of also acknowledging that, yes, that you see that there are different types of investors that you would want to -- that you might want to create opportunities for with those businesses that are created over time, services business, for example. Is that kind of what's in the back of your mind as you think not definitively, but as you think out a couple of years, once that's proven, that there's going to be these really valuable things that are created and that would be floated potentially?

We're going to keep it wide open because really, we don't know how it will unfold. And will the businesses make more sense to be tightly integrated? Will they make more sense to be separate, the whole way they operate? And so I think that's why these next couple of years, as we get into the more rapid scaling, we're going to learn a tremendous amount. We want to make sure we set the business up to maximize the value creation. And so again, remember, it all starts with having that technology that we can go city to city, and we're not quite there yet. So I think all of those things are possibilities, and we will evaluate all of them. Again, this is not a GM's decided we're going to keep it. We're saying this is what we're going to do for our investors and investors over time to maximize value creation.

That makes a lot of sense. Let's talk about the auto business. Before we talk about the growth opportunities, we need to talk a little bit about the sustainability of what you've built, because it sounds like you see a scenario in which 10% North American margins could be sustained for quite some time. So you're nodding. I like that. And you see factors kind of in the pipeline that give you confidence in that sustainability. Investors look at pricing and say, "Boy, that's been an enormous tailwind for this company over the past 2 years." Do you see prices lasting longer? Are people underestimating maybe what some of the tailwinds are for growth? Can you give us a sense of what's the algorithm that kind of gives you that confidence in the sustainability of the kinds of margins that you're looking at here?

Well, I think, one, let's start with our portfolio because we do believe that North America continue -- will continue to target the 10% margins, even as we make the investments in EV and software-enabled services and the new businesses. And we do expect the favorable pricing environment to continue as inventories are going to take well beyond 2022 to rebuild. And I think some of this is GM-unique because we came into COVID lean. We saw an incredibly strong demand. I mean, this period of time, we were just finishing up light duties and launched our full-size SUVs, where we have both our franchises and where we're at with full-size SUVs is really market leader. And so we see -- we still are in quite -- we're working to build every single vehicle we can build because the demand is so strong. So I think some of it is the strength of General Motors portfolio. Some of it, I think, is where our inventory position is. We will never go back to the inventory levels that we were in the past. We've just -- all the tragedy that has surrounded COVID, and it truly is tragic, we have learned a lot of how to strengthen our business, run leaner, work with the dealers, use data analytics to make sure the dealers are ordering the right vehicles. So there's so many different elements where we've learned to run more efficiently that we'll never go back from. And so as we go into this world, and we have a long runway to rebuild our inventories, we think our ICE margins are going to remain strong, and we'll see improved profitability even in ICE with our next generation of crossovers, we think option mix is going to continue to be favorable as we see demand for our higher-trim models. For example, when we look at the T -- our full-size truck, the T1 pickup refresh that's coming out this spring, we're going to have the Sierra Denali Ultimate with options like Super Cruise, and that has trailering options. And we really have technologies coming with this refresh that we think customers are really going to value. And we're starting to also see subscription service businesses start to grow off of the base. So -- and then you look at BrightDrop, and that's margin accretive, will really start to hit next year as we get into higher volumes. So there are so many things that I think are specific to GM's business with our portfolio and with the improvements we've made that are going to be coming out over the next 2 years that I think give us this confidence.

So it sounds like you've got just so many irons in the fire that can drive and propel the growth, and some of them are very high-margin opportunities. But just on this pricing, does inflation -- this is a big theme that we're hearing everywhere. I think it's -- you can't go through a day without talking about the inflationary environment that we're in right now. Does that somehow also play into your thinking about pricing strategy and how you have to position in the market?

Well, if the Fed were to tighten a full percentage point this year, auto loan rates would still be below the low levels immediately that were -- we had pre-COVID. And 100 basis points adds about $15 a month or 2% to a new vehicle payment. And so when we look at where household savings are -- that had risen during the pandemic, and the fact that there's such a strong job market, we don't think that that's going to be enough to dramatically change it. So we do expect the strong pricing to continue in '22. And we see -- I've already talked about that we see pent-up demand, and then we also see our low inventory. So those are the factors that we look at when we think we can maintain the strong pricing through '22 and into '23.

And the internal cost as well, that's kind of what I was referring to, just there's inflation within GM's cost structure, obviously, just like there is in any organization, any company, does that kind of play a role about how you're thinking about pricing as well?

Well, we have flagged some of the commodity and logistic cost pressure that we're seeing at $2.5 billion. But again, I think we also have worked and see opportunities to offset some of that. So again, on balance, we think that we're in a good strong pricing position still.

Okay. Let's talk about the organization and the transformation that's occurring here that lays the groundwork for the growth. And I was hoping we can talk a little bit about software and services because there is a view that software-oriented companies have kind of a different skill set and culture and tempo than an automaker has historically had. GM is a big organization. So there's -- and there's some inertia that exists within large organizations. I know that that's been a focus of yours to try to accelerate things. But can you maybe give us a little bit of behind the scenes on what kind of resources are you putting behind that transformation? What's happening in terms of internal talent? What's -- if I was sitting in GM over the past couple of years, what would I be seeing around me that conveys that, boy, this -- it's a very different place than what we have seen before?

I think one is, when you think about a big company and you think about the inertia, I don't really think we have that because what I'll refer you to, I back -- that is close to between 40% and 50% of our technical talent has only been with the company less than 5 years. So there's not this old inertia. They're the inertia of coming in and really bringing the talent, their talent from a software and technical perspective. 40% of our executive hires are from technology companies, and our over 15,000 software engineers and developers are located globally. Some are in Warren, Michigan but -- or in Detroit, but they're also in Austin, in Atlanta, in Phoenix, in San Francisco, in Markham, Ontario, which is where the University of Waterloo is, which is a great source of talent, and then in Israel. So we're tapping into all that talent. And I will tell you, we are having success. We made some changes to our compensation system to be on par with the FANG companies. And in a lot of cases, when you look at what our mission is, and again, the generation that we're hiring right now that is new college grads, yes, they want to be paid fairly and they want to be paid well. But they also want to work with a company that they have the same values, and they want to work for a company that is going to change the world. And as we made announcements early in '21 about our carbon-neutral goals and our light-duty fleet getting to all electric by 2035, we saw that type of resource application go up. And so we're not -- we are competing for talent. We're not saying, okay, we understand the FANG companies are going to get x, and we'll take those. We don't know. We're saying, we've got to win directly, and we offer a lot of different places to work and exciting things to work on. So it just -- it's something -- I think it's hard for people to imagine when they think of GM, but I still -- I've been talking about how new talent is committed. We hired 8,000 technical resources last year. We're going to do it again this year. So -- and again, we benchmark and change our work practices as well as our compensation. So we stack up quite well.

So you have a target of getting to $20 billion to $25 billion of software and services by 2030. 2030 is kind of far away. I was hoping you might be able to talk to us a little bit about nearer-term targets. What are some of the things that would surprise us over the next couple of years that's coming from this software and digitization group that you've got? Can you just share with us what is -- what -- how different will the company look in 2025? Do you have anything you can share along those lines?

Well, I don't have specific numbers. But Rod, I know that's something Paul and I have talked about, and we will share as we move forward. But where I would say in the immediate term, there's a huge opportunity to continue to grow OnStar and some of the related services and the value proposition that has and services that we're adding there. But I think as we get into next year and Ultifi is available, and we'll be able to back past that, for instance, in the LYRIQ and then virtually every vehicle going forward, after LYRIQ is going to have that capability. And that's where we can do on-demand services like Super Cruise. We can continue to make your vehicle better with new Super Cruise enhancements. There'll be new technology that we have a whole team and working on what are different things that we can do that are unique and aren't something that somebody can get on their phones so they're going to say, wait, I don't need to do that. They are better because we're leveraging the data in the vehicle and giving them something, whether it's customizing the vehicle or a whole new app that they can use. And so I really think this starts to ramp '23 and beyond. And so this thought that we need to put some mid-decade markers, I think, is a really good one, and we'll be back to you on that.

So it sounds like that, LYRIQ and then vehicles after that when you've got a real abstraction of compute versus hardware, that's when we're really -- just external to GM, we're going to really see a big difference in terms of the capability and things that are -- that you guys have been working on, the upgradability of those vehicles. Let's talk about...

All right. And I would just say, Rod, let's remember that Paul talked about this at our Investor Day. We talk to our customers, and we have a lot of learning of what customers will pay for and what they won't pay extra for with OnStar. And that's why we have confidence in this willingness to pay around $135 a month for a combination of products and software services, parts. And Super Cruise, I think, is a good example of that. We estimate that in that $135 that about $50 are onetime purchases, but then around $85 are for subscription services. So again, the research we've done and what we know is coming, I think, gives us confidence that by mid-decade, it will be impactful.

Yes. I mean the power is there when you've got a company that produces a few million vehicles a year, and you start getting consumers to pay that kind of subscription revenue.

Right.

I want to ask you about EVs, a lot of topics I want to cover here, but you're making a massive push into this segment, and it's been -- it's going to become apparent, I think, over the next 12 months, but a lot of companies have plans to expand in EVs. Can you take us out to 2025 and 2030, what do you see as the biggest determinants of success, specifically in electrification?

Well, I think the time frame that you're talking about, this '25 to '30, is really key. I mean I'm excited, we're [ beyond ] probably 45 days now. I was saying 60, I think a couple of weeks have gone by, but we're less than 60 days away from having the LYRIQ out. And when people can drive the LYRIQ, and they're going to start -- well, and the HUMMER as well, and we're rolling that out very, very slowly per our plan. It's on track. But as more people get into driving the HUMMER but then into the LYRIQ as well, they're going to start to see and feel the benefit of the Ultium platform from a no excuses, purpose-built EV architecture that allows us to bring new models out more quickly. So the HUMMER now, then the LYRIQ and then we also had BrightDrop last year, and then we flow into the Silverado, the Blazer, the Equinox, I mean by the time you get through '23 and into '24, we're going to have some really important vehicles in key segments that are affordable, that are going to, I think, drive volume. And I look at the recognition that the Equinox has when we shared that at CES, we haven't really even launched it yet, but the design of that vehicle and all the features it's going to have, but still at a $30,000 price, I think that that is going -- the vehicles we're going to have by that time, I think, are going to be significant. And they'll be differentiated because, again, they're on a dedicated platform. That platform not only gives us speed, but it gives us scale. And the Ultium platform, it's chemistry agnostic. So as we continue to make advancements, we're going to be able to leverage that and get that into vehicles without a complete redesign. We're working and we have announced several things that we have partnerships or deals that we have arranged from an EV supply. We have more coming that we'll be announcing probably middle of this year. I want to have them all sown up before we start talking about them externally. But believe me, we know having the right EV supply chain is critical to the growth targets we've set for ourselves to be -- have 1 million EVs in the U.S. and 1 million EVs in China by 2025, and that's the goal we're working on. So whether it's Ultium, the supply chain aspects we're working on and then just the portfolio of products. And then finally, I'd say the work that we're doing on the infrastructure, because when you want to get high adoption, you have to earn customers that only own 1 vehicle. And they have to choose that electric vehicle because they know they can live their entire life with that vehicle, and that means they need to trust the charging infrastructure. And all the partnerships that we have with the start-up companies and existing companies, the work we're doing with energy companies as well as the $0.25 billion we're investing to make sure there's a robust charging network for our customers.

One that -- it's interesting you brought up the supply chain because one of our speakers tomorrow, runs Argon National Lab, recently suggested to me that a lot of automakers are talking about big numbers for EVs, but not everybody is going to be able to achieve it because they haven't secured everything that they need even down at the raw materials or cathode materials. And it sounds like GM is doing a lot of work in this area. Do you think that there really is a differentiation here? And some companies are going to be very constrained while GM is less because of some differentiation in the supply chain?

Well, I really can't speak to what other companies are doing, but I am confident that what we've currently announced and what we will announce supports our scaling to over 1 million units in North America by the end of 2025. And that lays the foundation. There's work going on beyond that and then work going on in China as well. And we're approaching the raw material and EV materials in 2 ways. One, chemistries that reduce some of these costly materials. For instance, cobalt in our Ultium batteries had been reduced by 70% versus the Bolt. And then we're also building a sustainable and resilient North America-focused supply chain for EVs that covers the entire ecosystem from raw materials to battery cell manufacturing and then closed loop from a recycling perspective. So -- and obviously, we learned a lot last year with the semiconductors. We've been purchasing from the EV experience we have starting all the way back in 2010 with the Bolt, and then all of the learnings we've had with the Bolt. And I think that's what convinced us early on that we needed to do -- have our own cells manufacturing in-country and then the joint venture that we have with LG. So -- and again, that first plant is coming online this year, the next year, the next one and so on. So I think, again, this is an area we're ahead because of our learnings, and we recognize what it's going to take. So I know there's people predicting what it will be. I think the auto industry in general is pretty creative, but I'm worried about GM and being able to hit our numbers, and that's where our focus is.

Yes. Well, look, I appreciate you don't want to really talk about what other companies are doing, and you're focusing on execution. But do you believe that the industry pie chart, as we think about market share, looks different, significantly different in 2030 versus today based on what you see GM doing and how differentiated GM's efforts are versus others?

I do. And I think it will start to show in 2025 when you look at the scale of the products. I mean right now, there's -- some are talking about, well, it's just you only need a couple of models with higher volumes. But all the customer research we've done say, again, where you want -- it's one thing when you're in single-digit adoption, but when you want to get to 40%, 50%, 60% adoption, customers want what they want. You can't say this is what you get because they're going to have other choices. It has to be, here's the segment that meets their needs and meets their price point and meets their lifestyle or livelihood. And that's what we're working to make sure we have. And whether it's the franchises we have from full-size trucks and SUVs and midsized crossovers to vehicles like the Equinox, that will be no excuses. And so I think you'll start to see differentiation as early as 2025.

Yes. I would expect something similar to that. And there's a great pipeline that's coming out from GM here. But there -- I will mention that there is some uncertainty in the investment community in terms of what this really means for the company. In EVs, these EVs are going to have really high battery costs. There's some uncertainty over whether the framework for profitability that we've seen in the past is going to translate to the vehicles in the future, particularly in trucks. So let's say, GM builds 600,000 EV trucks, it looks like between Hamtramck and Orion, you're going to have something like that magnitude of capacity. It's really a big number when we think about the T1 platform, the pickup trucks and the large SUVs, that's about 1.3 million, 1.4 million. So we're going to have some of these things coming in there. I presume that some of that would cannibalize and some of it will be growth. How do you think about the implications for profitability as you start to feather in some of these large higher-cost EVs into the mix?

Well, we do see this as an opportunity to grow our total market share, not just EV market share. Because, again, we have what we believe are the best trucks. We have more installed capacity. We have strong truck brands. We've got strong customer loyalty. And we do see a particular opportunity on the coast where we're underrepresented today where EV adoption is ramping more quickly. And we're seeing with the number of people who have, for instance, just purchased a HUMMER that are a conquest from a GM perspective. And so I think it starts there. Over 60% of the EV, when we put EV HUMMER and Silverado EV together, over 60% of the reservations are new -- people new to GM. And so I think that's a huge opportunity. And one other thing I want to talk about to get to these numbers, manufacturing is not easy. And converting -- building plants, converting plants to build x at their line rate with quality is not an easy thing to do. I grew up in manufacturing. And I think the capability that we have, the existing footprint that we have that we can convert and do it less expensively and faster, but really also the trained workforce that knows how to build quality, that knows our manufacturing system. So I think people underestimate when they compare General Motors to a start-up, the fact that we're -- Factory ZERO is up and running. And Spring Hill will be running shortly. And now we have a new plant coming with Orion. I think sometimes people don't understand how much of an asset that is because manufacturing matters. And knowing how to do it well, not just a couple hundred, but hundreds of thousands day in and day out with quality is going to be key to this race.

So I'm trying to just frame in my mind what that really means. So clearly, GM is more efficient. We've seen that in the data over the years. GM could produce a vehicle in fewer labor hours. Your warranty accruals have been way lower than anybody else that we see that -- certainly way lower than any of the new entrants. But if we take a couple of hundred thousand, let's say, we have 400,000 EV trucks, and they replace, I don't know, 400,000, 500,000 traditional internal combustion trucks, those new vehicles would come in with lower profitability. I presume you would agree with that. But are you saying that the growth overall, when you consider about -- you consider the incremental units that you will be selling overall, that more than offsets it, so that's why it's actually a pretty good trade-off for GM?

Yes. I mean -- well, first of all, we're not going to claim to something that the customer doesn't want. I mean if there's 400,000 customers for trucks, whether they're ours or someone else's, we want them. So we're going to -- because that's our future, and especially with the -- we're the only OEM that is -- established OEM that has set the goal for 2035 to be all light duty for a whole range, not just 2 or 3 models. And you'll hear more from us at how we're transitioning our brands in the not-too-distant future. So when I look at the strength of our products coming off of Ultium, I look at what we're doing to take cost out from a battery perspective and the upgradeability we have with Ultium. The services that will come online as those volumes start to get high, that's what gives us confidence that we're going to have a profitable business. And then as we get battery costs even lower, we can then get all of the software and services, which has a very nice margin profile to it as well. So I think this is transformative for the company. But again, it's because of the -- where, again, I think people don't always understand, because we started investing and developing Ultium more than 3 years ago, because we did the vehicle intelligence platform, so now quickly, we can put Ultifi on top of that, and there are services we already have today with OnStar on these vehicles because of the number of connected vehicles, we're positioned well to lead the mass market into this transfer -- in this transformation to EVs. And that's what we're working and gearing up to do with the portfolio and the services that we have. And again, I think the benefits of Ultium will prove out as people start to see the speed and the beauty of the products we have coming.

Yes, it certainly sounds like there's good reason to believe that GM is going to have significant cost advantages, and that should translate to profitability advantages. And then you layer on these additional opportunities that it sound like they're incremental. So I'm hearing you loud and clear on that. Can you maybe just quickly talk to policy? So U.S. policy, whether or not there's going to be Build Back Better. That probably has some implications for the market, how it evolves and what it means for the companies. Any thoughts on how an investor should frame that?

Well, we've seen today that tax credits are an accelerator to EV adoption. So we've seen that. We would like to have a level playing field. We think kind of the way the current incentive structure is in place that first movers are disadvantaged doesn't make a lot of sense. But -- so I continue -- General Motors continues to be a strong advocate for the climate provisions of Build Back Better. But that's not changing our direction because it's either going to -- the playing field will be leveled. And I think there's still a good opportunity for something to go through from a -- some portions of Build Back Better that will support climate. And -- but if not, we're still going to go full speed ahead.

Let's talk about just other parts of the value chain that you are modernizing through digitization. And I'm thinking about distribution and dealers. So we have a model that has existed for 100 years. And there is a view that there's some competitive advantages to selling direct versus selling indirect. There's no debating that dealers do cleave off some margin for themselves. I was hoping you could talk about how you're working to level the playing field. And I'm thinking specifically about this digital retail platform that you talked a little bit about. How is that going to get implemented over time? What kind of improvements are we going to see that really -- that could be powerful and really close the gap?

Sure. Well, I said before, and I'll start by saying again that GM has a highly experienced, very capable nationwide sales and service network that frankly, startups don't have. And I really believe our dealer network is a competitive advantage in the race for EV leadership. And there's really kind of 3 reasons. The one is with the DRP, the digital retail platform you mentioned, we are really allowing dealers to meet customers on their terms. It's a true omnichannel shopping and buying experience. You can be 100% online. You can do 100% in store and however much you want to do. And like our customer research says, that's what customers want. Again, remember, we want all customers, but we want the ones that don't have another vehicle in their garage or in their parking structure or out on the street. The dealer network is also a key enabler to rural markets and premium veteran locations. 87% of the U.S. population lives within 10 miles of a GM dealership. And this really also provides us an additional channel for selling software and services as part of the new vehicle purchase when people go for service or service to their -- I was going to say oil change, but you won't need that with an EV. And then the relationship they have. And dealers, in many cases, are good dealers, are leaders in the community, they make a significant contribution to the local economy investment, and they're actually quite philanthropic. So our research indicates that customers continue to favor a traditional dealer shopping experience over the direct retail model by nearly threefold. And so -- and again, you look at our loyalty that we have. I think the second is service is going to matter. And the service that is enabled in the dealership model is an opportunity for us as well. And we do -- there's kinds -- there's concierge-type services, there's mobile service formats that dealers are using. Again, dealers are entrepreneurs, and they know the importance of service and how that really creates a relationship with the customer and creates that loyalty. And then when you look at -- we think we can deploy capital to product development rather than owning and operating all these points, again, because we have a collection of very talented entrepreneurs. And so I think as we make this shift to EVs, that the dealers that invest and make the investments they need to make to be EV, I think, are going to be a differentiator for us. And then we've also worked with our dealers. It's not about here's the pie, and let's argue about how much each of us gets. Let's make the cost of selling a vehicle less expensive, so we both improve our profitability. And that's the work that's been enabled by the digital retail platform. One of the things we went in and looked at and saw, IT costs for our dealers were pretty high. We invested in Tekion. We've got the DRP now coming, and we think that customers can expect to get accurate, transparent pricing consideration, obviously dealing with what the local taxes and fees are, that they're going to be able to compare. And so we see this as a huge opportunity as we roll the DRP out. So that, again, they -- time will tell. But when we look at the relationship customers have with their dealers and the improvements that we're making, and not to mention CarBravo, which I think is a huge growth opportunity for us that benefits our dealers but also gives us another channel to get these customers, the second, the third owner back into OnStar or other services, I think, is going to be additive as well.

So just to clarify, the -- there's clearly some opportunity that you're targeting for eliminating inefficiency, whether it's extra advertising, IT costs, carrying inventory, things like that. Do you have any kind of estimate for what the opportunity really is? And how should we -- is that enough to really narrow the gap between companies that are able to sell directly at retail? And you will ultimately have to sell at wholesale, but will there be a kind of a minimal gap between that wholesale and retail that is offset by other things?

I think it will be offset, right? Because someone's got to service the vehicle. Someone has to deliver the vehicle. Someone has to know the vehicle well enough to help the customers. I mean, there are software platforms now. Somebody's got to know how to help people peel back the onion to know everything that their vehicle can do. Having that sales force available to sell as new -- as we create new things, there's a cost to all those things that I think people aren't appropriately calculating. So I think we're going to have a more efficient model with full service and the opportunity for the customer to purchase the way they want to purchase.

Great. Well, I think we only have another minute or 2. So I wanted to let you, Mary, if there's something that you think would be helpful for the investment community here, anything that I missed as far as messages or things that you think investors today might not be fully appreciating.

Well, I -- just maybe where we started, just reiterate with Cruise. The public is now taking a driver's [ spread ]. And if you don't, tune into the videos that Cruise is releasing, I think they're pretty exciting. And we hope with government approval that we're within months of being able to actually have paid rideshare with the Bolt. And then we took another important step, a proactive step last week when we are looking to get the approval process in place for the Origin, and we submitted that to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration or NHTSA. And also note the Origin is on track at Factory ZERO, and we look to deploy the Origin commercial, which I think will be another game changer from a rideshare perspective. So I'm just super excited about all the things we're going to be able to roll out this year and into next year that demonstrate the strength of General Motors' EV and AV businesses and then how we can build on that. So it's going to be a pretty exciting year.

Great. Well, with that, I think we're out of time here. I want to thank you, Mary. It sounds like it's an exciting 12, 24 months here in front of us. So we're going to be seeing a lot coming out of this company. Thanks again for taking the time. And thanks, everybody, for dialing in.

Yes, Rod, thanks for the opportunity. Really appreciate it.

Take care.