Genius Sports Limited (GENI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Very excited to have Nick Taylor, CFO of Genius Sports. Nick?

Yes. Great to be here, Jason. Thank you for inviting us, as always.

Absolutely. So I will give you just a little bit of color in terms of what I think is happening with investors. Like every month that goes by, we get a few more sort of inbound calls where people say hey, get me up to speed on what Genius Sports does, right? And so the investor interest just seems like it's building. But maybe we'll just start for those that are maybe uninitiated, if you can just start with just a brief overview of what your firm does and your strategy just to level set for anyone that might be new to the story.

Yes. Well, first of all, great to hear that certainly, we're seeing that in our session in this conference and in other conferences we're doing. Yes. I mean, look, Jason, at our core, we're a sports technology company, and we partner with the world of sport. So 400, 500 different sports leagues and federations, and we effectively capture their data and monetize it. And the technology we're deploying across the world of sport is giving them rich data insights, next-generation betting products, media products, officiating products. It's a huge suite of different products. And effectively, we're sort of the only company that is creating an end-to-end sports technology platform from data capture all the way through to betting all the way through to advertising. And that's quite strategically important because not only does it mean that those relationships with sport become very deep and very sticky, the barriers to entry are huge. But also there's an increasingly diversification of those revenue opportunities that we get from each level of those different technologies.

That's perfect. And when you say the barriers to entry are significant that really emanates, is it from the data rights themselves that you're securing or is it broader than now when you...

It's much broader than that. Absolutely, there are barriers to entry from our relationships with all the sports and indeed, all the sports books or media organizations or broadcasters, but the technology really is the major barrier to entry, whether that's our data capture technology, whether that's our augmented reality technology, our AI technology, GeniusIQ, whatever it might be. That's the real barrier to entry for Genius.

That's great. And it feels like -- well, I'm going to come to this in a bit later, but I don't want to front run myself. But let me ask you about top line growth, let's just do that. So I think you've suggested you can grow about 20% over the medium term?

That's right. Yes, we said we've grown 20% -- north of 20% every single year we've been listed, and we've been doing this on a listed environment since 2021. This year, our guide, latest guide, I think, is 26%. So we've said, look, we're not in a business that's slowing down at any point in time. And therefore, we're guiding to a sort of long-term projection of around about 20% on an annual basis.

Okay. And what would you say the building blocks of that 20% growth?

Yes. In betting, I think they're relatively well known, but I'll touch on them, as you say, for the uninitiated. So in betting, there's obviously TAM is a significant tailwind in the industry. We obviously talk about the U.S. a lot, particularly based here in New York, and we continue to see that with new states opening up over the course of the last 5 years, but not just new states opening up, but actually continued growth in gaming revenue on states that have been betting for 5 years. But of course, it's not just a U.S. play. Let's remember that the majority of our revenue still sit outside of the U.S. and therefore, you look at things like Brazil opening up in 2025, and a whole suite of other countries, whether it's Germany or other European entities where TAM continues to grow. So that's absolutely a key betting tailwind. The other betting tailwind that is a structural tailwind is the move to in-play sports betting. So -- and you've heard us say this before, Jason, in mature markets, in-play sports betting is anywhere between about 60% to 70% of [ handle ]. And the U.S. has always traditionally been the reverse of that because it's such a nascent market. We probably sat in this conference 2 years ago, and there's some skepticism about whether the U.S. was structurally different to anyone else, the consumer was different, the sport is different. And what's really been proved out over the course of the last 18 months, particularly is that's not true. What's happening is that the market is moving to that -- to the in-play market. It's still only about 30%-ish and different sports, different states, different companies will quote different numbers. But what is absolutely true is that it's moving, and we're seeing that move operator-led, product led. So that's absolutely a tailwind. Remembering that Genius has traditionally taken about 3x revenue from an in-play sports bet than a [ prepaid ] sports bet with 0 additional cost. And then the last thing in betting, the last tailwind just quickly to touch on obviously is product and price. So we continue to develop a significant level of product about -- through our technology that I mentioned earlier, and that's enabling us really to take more value from our relationships. We saw that when we renegotiated our U.S. Sportsbook in the fall last year, and we're seeing the benefit of that in our '25 numbers. Betting is -- our betting segment, I think, is up 40% year-on-year, and that's on a global basis. So you can infer that the U.S. betting is up higher than that. And that will be a continuing theme over the course of the next 5, 10 years as technology continues to improve. So we're seeing -- so you can see there when we talk about 20% growth, one of the great things about Genius and me being in my seat is we don't all have our eggs in one basket. There's a number of different growth levers within that betting space. In the media space, we're seeing great momentum in the media, and I'm sure Jason will touch on that in a little bit more detail over the next half hour. But we're seeing real momentum. Sport is becoming an increasingly important lever for brands to reach their customers, and we are perfectly placed to take advantage of that mega trend.

That's great. So can we talk about this live betting mix, 30-ish percent moving to the 70% rest of world. How much of that do you feel like it's just the American consumer just getting acclimated to the ability to do an in-play bet? And how much do you feel like is sort of fueled by products or software that you're putting in front of the punter to sort of lean into these opportunities?

It's both. It's both effectively, but it's sequential. So it's an out-of-date stat now. But I believe FanDuel , I think it was 2 or 3 years ago when they did an Investor Day, said something along the lines that 67% of their NFL bets are all things that people bet on the -- whatever is on their front page is what people are betting on. And I guess when it was originally legalized sports betting, it was almost seem like a sort of lottery win. Top parlays were very popular because put on a $5 bet, you win $10,000. Well, of course, you don't win $10,000. So I wouldn't be doing this job. I'll be doing another job. But that's the kind of mentality and what's happened, obviously, is as people get more used to it, becomes more habitual and people come more sophisticated, but that has to be led by product. And what we've seen from the operators and again, Jason, you'll talk to them more than I will, is you just listened to the mood music of the operators. You listen to an earnings call from one of the operators now and front and center of their strategy and focus right now is in-play sports betting, where it probably wasn't 2 or 3 years ago. And obviously, Genius is right in the vanguard of that product evolution with something like a BetVision, which is a very powerful tool, helping to drive in-play. But it's not the only tool and Sportsbook will create their own tools around it. That's all good news for Genius because it all gets powered from Genius technology.

Understood. What has been the feedback for those that are really leaning into BetVision? What's been the feedback from the...

It's great. It's a really powerful tool. So all major U.S. Sportsbook have BetVision. It is for the NFL. It is a significantly important tool. It's really driving engagement from the Sportsbook perspective. It's driving dwell time. It's driving eyeballs. And from a betting perspective, I think in the last season, I think it was 76% of all handle of -- from people on BetVision was an in-play sports bet. So you can see it's more than double the underlying sports bet. So you can see it being really in the vanguard of driving that in-play sports betting. So yes, hugely successful tool. We continue to develop it, week-on-week, product on product through our analysis through push notifications, through contextual bets, through a whole range of products. And what Genius has done in the last 6 months of we've now launched BetVision for soccer. And we're in the process of about to launch BetVision for basketball as well. So it's a key tool for operators.

That's great. Can I shift gears, please, the media business?

Yes, of course.

So maybe just describe who the customers are in the media business and then what the value is that you're providing with your products to those customers?

Yes. So we -- just if we take a step back on the media side, Jason, and think about what the sort of key trends in the space of advertising is and why that matters to us. So I've already said, I think, earlier that sports is a key trend. So if you think about effectively one of the only things [ that really they don't watch is live ] anymore given the fragmentation of broadcasting. So most brands are now desperate to associate themselves with somehow an innovative way to associate themselves with sport. The second trend of that, of course, is the moving away from the linear sport and moving to digital platforms as well. And therefore, you've got those brands looking for new and innovative ways of reaching that sports customer. Now where Genius then plays into that is, first of all, we have a unique data set. So what do I mean by that? We have a whole raft of first-party data ourselves, whether that's from our free-to-play games, our fantasy games, but also from those 400 to 500 sports partnerships that I mentioned earlier. We have access to a lot of first-party data through those relationships, whether that's nfl.com or NFL app. So effectively, we know the customer. We know the sports fan. We know who you are. We know who you support. We know who your favorite player is. We know where you're looking for stats. But then we also know because of our live data capture, we know when those key moments of sports are as they're happening, they touch down, the 3 points, the soccer goal. So that allows us, and that moment of higher emotion, if you will, only last for a very short period of time. So if you marry those 2 things together, what we're able to do on behalf of our customers is we're able to target the right person with the right content at that right time at key moment of emotion that allows that's what we're effectively doing for our brands. Now we've traditionally done that through a number of different channels. We can do that by social. We do that via connected TV. We can do it via third-party inventory. But also increasingly, we are doing it, and we're accelerating it to our own inventory. And that's inventory that we're creating via things like our BetVision platform, but also via things like augmented broadcasting that we're doing in the market.

So can you -- sorry, what was the last thing that you said?

So saying that -- so when we look at the channels that we are hitting the right customer with the right content at the right time, we do it through the traditional channels. But increasingly, we're going to do it through our own inventory and now we can do that for a number of ways. BetVision is obviously so that we've talked about for our own inventory. But one of the other ways is through our augmented broadcasting, our broadcasting relationships that we have. We're already in the process of doing it now, and we'll see more of this, Jason, is where we're creating inventory for broadcasters that we can attract to -- for brands.

Okay. That makes sense. What about FanHub? I think it launched about a year ago. How would you say that's evolving?

It's great. It's really driving high-quality conversations, Jason, is what I'd say. I mean, first of all, you can see it in our [indiscernible] numbers. Our second half of the year this year, I think we're guiding to around about 60% year-on-year increase. Overall, that will be about 20% annual increase in the second half of the year, that is accelerating. And absolutely, this is part of that acceleration. So the whole platform, everything I've just talked about is really driving that, and you're seeing that not just on the Sportsbook, but increased with non-Sportsbook brand. And you know Jason, on a quarterly basis, we'll talk about that, whether that's with Walmart or whether that's with Pepsi. And then increasingly, as I say, through our own inventory and a good example of that is in our BetVision product this year, where as part of our extended NFL deal that we did in the summer, we now have the right to sell that inventory within BetVision, both domestically and internationally for the coming season. And that's a really good example that's been driven through FanHub that is moving and evolving our media product rapidly.

That's great. So a few months ago, I think it was July, you announced a partnership with an ad agency, PMG. Why is that so important? What do you think was...

Well, that's -- I mean, thank you for prompting me, Jason, because that's a great -- it segues into the next stage of our media strategy. So traditionally, we've done a lot of managed programmatic media, and that's been a huge success. Our revenues have effectively doubled over the last few years in that space where FanHub is also -- is becoming important is that self-serve position. And that's really through agencies. So by doing deals with agencies, that's creating a whole new TAM, but effectively, we've not had a chance to execute on. Now why do PMG -- why have they done the deal? PMG, obviously as you know, is the U.S.'s largest independent advertising agency that customer list reads like a sort of royalty of consumer brands in the U.S., whether that's Nike or Dre by Beats (sic) [ Beats by Dre ] or Peloton and a whole swatch of other consumers. They are their customers, their brands themselves are looking at innovating in sport, how do they reach the sports brands, and PMG are looking for innovative ways to service their customers and Genius is an obvious place for them to start. So we've done a deal with PMG. That's a minimum revenue guarantee deal. Obviously, our aim is to blow completely through that. And that is through exactly what I've talked about in terms of getting those brands associated with innovative ways in sport, whether that's through our whole suite of products or indeed our own inventory that we're selling that you can only go and buy from FanHub. You can't buy that inventory from any other place. And you'll see increasingly not just over the rest of '25, but actually through '26 and '27 where that will accelerate that quality of inventory, whether that's through BetVision or other means.

That's great. So I want to -- I think everyone in this room would know that more video is going digital, more sport is going digital. But it does feel like there's a little bit of a discontinuity with Disney's ESPN flagship and FOX One sort of launching, I think, right now, or just launched maybe last month. Is that important if you're a shareholder of Genius, does that really matter to you? Or sort of irrelevant, the consumption is the consumption, the fact that it's going to be a bit more digital doesn't really mean a lot?

I think it's all good news for Genius. I think anyone coming into the sector, whether that's in broadcasting or sports engagement or indeed sportsbooks coming in, looking to differentiate themselves, looking to do that by innovative ways is great news for Genius because that's effectively what GeniusIQ is doing. So GeniusIQ is, as you know, is our technology that we're rolling out into stadia. That's all about personalizing the experience of sport. It's all about -- I've got a 17-year-old son. He watches sport very, very different the way I used to watch sport when I was his age, which was a long time ago. His is all about that second -- experience. It's about personalization. It's about stats, it's about gamification. That's effectively what GeniusIQ is doing in sport and all the different monetization opportunities that, that brings. The more people coming into this space, looking to be -- to differentiate by product is great use for Genius because ultimately, they become customers of [indiscernible] That's how we're looking at it.

Okay. And it feels to me, maybe I'm wrong, but as I've listened to Disney over the years, they used to sort of almost shy away from sport betting and it feels like we've gotten more and more comfortable with it as the years have gone by, where they seem more amenable to sort of integrating, partnering, doing a lot of things on the sports betting front.

I mean, effectively, sports betting is just the ultimate fan engagement. Just nobody is more engaged than the guy has got $10 in the fourth quarter last night for the Eagles versus the Cowboys. So fan engagement is critical, particularly as we talked about in sport as all of these -- the sort of convergence, you've heard Mark Locke talk about the convergence of media and broadcast and betting and streaming all coming together. We're seeing that play out. And sports betting is just a very effective fan engagement tool in the same way all of this. So again, as product becomes differentiated for them, that's good news for Genius.

So can I talk about just the competitive landscape? It feels like things have gotten less complex or less fragmented, I guess. I mean, I'd just love for you to just paint a picture of how you saw the competitive landscape a few years ago, how you sort of see it today?

Yes, I think that's a good description of it, Jason, actually. I think if you probably went back to our IPO documents in 2021, we probably got that slide of competitive landscape, there's probably 4, 5 names on that landscape. Effectively, that has definitely reduced over time. And therefore, data collection is a complicated business. The technology for that is not straightforward. And therefore, I don't think there's any surprise that landscape has shrunk. And we look on that as good news. It certainly feels more rational. I look at Genius and I look at our relationships with sports. They're long-term relationships. The -- if you look at our relationship with the NFL, this season that kicked off last night would have been our first year outside of our original deal that we did in 2021. And of course, as you know now, we have a long-term deal that is secured out until 2030. U.K. soccer, the same, it's broadly the same kind of territory. NCAA, we've just done a deal with. I think that goes out beyond 2030, 2032, I think it might be. FIBA relationships with global basketball the same. So there's definitely a more rational aspect to it. And the other thing we're seeing, I think, is a much more rational behavior around rights costs as well. So if you look at the deals that we announced the summer, European soccer is a great example of that, where it was a previous deal. I think it was an IMG deal before we've taken that over. European soccer, just to level set everyone is aware, it's a pan-European 16 countries, 46 leagues, 8,000 events of soccer content, so really high-quality content. And our rights costs that we are paying for that is an absolute fraction of what IMG paid for that. And that really is part of that is that dynamic of a more rational marketplace.

Right. Does it also help you with the sportsbooks themselves having fewer players in there? Or do you see it mostly on the cost side and the sports data?

I think it simplifies it. I think that's fair. All global sportsbooks work with us and our peers because if you -- if you're a legal global sportsbook, you would want to offer NFL events or U.K. soccer events or Serie A now in Italy or off 80,000 [ FIBA ] events, that means you work with Genius in the same way you work with some of our peers for their suite of products. So yes, I think it probably simplifies. Inevitably, less partners means particularly for Genius because of our technology position allows us to be much more of a technology partner. We've talked about being a technology partner to sport, but that's beginning to play out for sportsbooks as well. In the U.S., we talked about BetVision. But you must remember, in Europe, our relationships at sportsbooks is technology-driven as well because we do a huge swath of other services for those sportsbooks, whether it's Flutter or bet365 or Entain Group, whether it's line setting and risk management, odds opening closing market. So it's still very much based on that technology position.

The only thing that I can think of that sort of makes me a little bit nervous when I think about where we are, the sports betting industry is and where it could go, is if we saw sort of a shakeout and more consolidation happen at the OSB level, does that worry you at all or not?

No, no. It doesn't actually. If you assume a consolidation -- first of all, consolidation, the rationale presumably to do that at an OSB level is to make more profitable and larger scale. Well, that's good news for Genius. A profitable sportsbook is great news because it means they have more money to spend on innovation, on product. And again, that leads to spending more with Genius. And also, if you assume that effectively, the TAM doesn't change, it just becomes -- 2 becomes 1, then effectively, the way our contracts are set up is that we're effectively sharing in any upside on sportsbook. So no, we're not worried about that. In fact, a few number of partners, a few number of peers becomes partnerships more because you're again, back to our technology position, you're really driving that technology. And if you think about the other sort of short-term supposed headwinds within -- that are out there in terms of betting markets, that don't really impact Genius very much. You think about tax rates, so you think about hold. You must remember, again, as I said earlier, probably 40% of revenues are U.S. based. So there's a significant outside of the U.S. So when you think about 1 particular state, then doesn't become material. And the way a lot of our contracts are set up that we did this time last year, we bought that in mind for some of our contracts. So some of our contracts would now take a percentage of handle. So the tax rate aren't influencing for us. Some of them we have minimum revenue guarantee. So again, we've taken some of that sort of hold variance out of the market as well. Some of the contracts we've been fixed certain elements of our revenue position. So again, we're not -- I don't lie awake at night needing the Cowboys to win last night. It's just not something that has a significant impact to us.

But if there was consolidation at the OSB level, it seems like the ability for the OSB to bring more of the capability in-house not use a third party?

Well, I mean, ultimately, if you think about -- I mean, that almost goes the sort of conceptual question of why Genius exists in the first place. OSBs can't...

[indiscernible] that question.

Yes. No, we do now, but that's effectively -- I think what you're trying to get at here is OSBs can't do this themselves. They don't want to do this themselves. We're providing to an average OSB, 120,000, 130,000, 140,000 events on an annual basis. Whether -- yes, it's NFL, it's U.K. soccer or it's Serie A, the NFL is 276 games. If you think about the amount that we provide, not least of which the technology that we're providing, as I said, it starts off when we talked about the competitor set, data capture and collection of that technology is not straightforward. We've been doing this 20 years, we did this a long time. By doing that across the whole suite and then doing everything else we're doing with OSBs and the European market is a great example of what we're doing. And I expect that trend will continue in the U.S. as we're doing more technology, not less technology for the sportsbooks. A sportsbook has -- is increasingly going to be a brand engine, and the marketing and how they treat you as a customer, how they bonus you as a customer. That's why you choose a particular sportsbook, what the user experience as a customer is like not the back-end technology and the content that they were providing, which is what we do.

What about capital allocation? I mean, I feel like in my coverage, there's more and more firm turning [indiscernible] debt-free, which is something that I used to not see. But can you just talk about it? What your philosophy is regarding sort of leverage uses of cash flow?

Yes. I mean, well, you're right, we're debt free. We -- we're now cash positive. That was a key moment in the Genius story. I've been doing -- we've been doing this 5 years in this environment. We start off with sort of 0 EBITDA and people were skeptical about whether we'd ever make any and you've seen our EBITDA margin go over the last 3 years or sort of 5% to 12% to 16% to 21% this year. And you've heard Mark and I talk about that going up to a sort of 30% plus EBITDA margin. We've done the same on a cash flow basis, and people have said, okay, was [indiscernible] Well, 2024 was a pivotal year from a cash basis. So we made $82 million at an operating cash level. Now we reinvested on that, as you know, through some of this technology, and you're seeing the benefits of that through the deals that we've been doing on the technology side. But we're cash positive in '24, we'll be cash positive in 2025. So we're in a really good place on that position. And we're -- we announced at Investor Day, I think, on the 3rd of December this year. And one of the things I'm sure we'll talk about in a bit more detail there is free cash flow conversion because now we are cash positive, that's the next obvious metric for us to be talking about. So when we're talking about 30% EBITDA margin on an ongoing basis and above that, what does that look like on a free cash flow margin? Because if you take our EBITDA position, it's very little between EBITDA and cash positivity, which means our business model is such that as that EBITDA grows, our free cash flow will just naturally grow in a linear basis with it. So that's -- we're in an exciting place to be. In terms of capital allocation, we obviously, as opportunistically raised cash in January, $140 million, effectively, that's -- we've said to the market that, that's for M&A. Now again, we've also said in the latest quarterly earnings we did in August, we gave a bit more color of what we meant by that. And it's really about keeping our discipline. I think Mark said, we looked at 60 companies at that point. We are actively looking in the market, but we've been very clear that it's a very high bar of what we're looking for. We don't need anything. But there's always an opportunity. If there's an opportunity for us to accelerate either our media strategy, scale in the betting strategy or something that's a subscale sport, high-quality sports tech technology, that's what we'll be looking at, but we put really strong financial metrics. It needs to be EBITDA accretive. It needs to be cash accretive. And therefore, that's really what we're looking at for our capital allocation. That's our #1 priority. We did -- I think it was in March, Jason, we did also put a buyback program, at least the ability to do a buyback program in place. That's not a priority yet. That was good housekeeping. It's there so that we can move quickly as and when we ever need it to. But right now, we're looking -- M&A is our #1 priority in terms of what we're going to do with the cash that we raised.

Any questions for Nick?

You talked about some of the -- or Jason asked about some of the consolidation amongst your customer base. But one of the things we're seeing, if you look at the overall handle is the prediction market, Kalshi, Robinhood starting to be meaningful players in the market. Curious what that's meant for you so far? Where you see it going in terms of their market share and how that will impact the Genius business?

Yes. I would say we're an interested viewer at the moment really. I mean, it isn't really impacting our world at all. I mean, I don't believe it's massively impacting the sportsbooks world right now, if you listen to and I hear the same things you hear, Andrew. So effectively, there were potential customer parts as and when they may try and become more sophisticated in terms of what they're looking to do, there were exchanges. In the U.K., there's a famous brand that started off as still as an exchange. They're a large customer of Genius. So it's -- I look at it really as an opportunity. How it plays out in the wider market, I'm not clever enough to be a U.S. antitrust lawyer or whatever it might be. So I'll leave that to other people. But certainly, from Genius, we look at it. At worst, we're agnostic. But effectively, I think we see as an opportunity.

Do you have social media soccer fans you mentioned about World Cup. I'm just saying your platform, is that for fan growing soccer fan or other sports fan?

Yes. So we have a huge suite of technology. We obviously talked about the betting technology and BetVision. What we're also doing, we have a lot of fan engagement products. Our job is really when we look at sports and we look at our sports relationships, our job is to help solve the sports problems. And one of the issues all sports have is how to engage the next generation of fans. I name check my son. [ It always like ] when I talk about in my 17-year old, and he watches sports differently to the way I used to watch sports. So one of the sport's challenges is how do they reach him, how do they engage him? And that's what our GeniusIQ is effectively doing, whether that's through the personalization of sports and the way people are doing sport. We're also solving things like sports issues around officiating. One of the big things that we did last year that we haven't really talked about is we're doing -- it's called semi-automated offsides in the U.K. in the English Premier League, which effectively a huge issue in the Premier League. We won that work from the Hawk-Eye from the Sony Group last year, and that is making a big difference to how U.K. soccer engages with its wider fan base. So we have a whole suite of products. So absolutely, we're focused. We're focused on what sports executives are focused on, and part of that is inevitably how do they engage in fans.

And then just 1 last item, AI. We constantly hear about how AI is a benefit to everybody, how it's more efficient. How do you -- do you see any threats with AI kind of taking over? I know your technology is superior, but just kind of curious what your thoughts are.

Yes. I mean, you're right. Every Chief Executive stands up and talks about AI and I hope no one else ask questions about it. Look, AI is transforming our business internally, which is great. There's cost savings we made. We spend, I don't know [ $15 million ] sending people to games to collect data. [ That is fast going to ] be replaced by AI. And look, I'm a CFO, I'll happily take an extra $15 million on my EBITDA free cash flow any day of the week. But actually, the really exciting bit is, I mean that's what GeniusIQ is. It's the world's leading sports AI system. So everything we're doing, and it's really the differentiator. It's why people choose, why people choose Genius, why European leagues choose Genius, why Serie A choose Genius, why NFL now we have this long-standing partnership with the NFL is because of GeniusIQ and what we're bringing to the table, whether that's true, as I say, through the AI that's providing the automated [ referring ] that I just named checked in U.K. soccer or whether that's the AI that we're doing that allows us to do broadcast like we did the Madden Cast on NBC over Christmas or the NBA 2K broadcast on TNT. It's the AI that's driving the betting opportunities through BetVision. And when you go on to FanDuel or whether you go to DraftKings or watch BetVision and the overlaying and the push notification, that's all of our AI doing that. So it is entirely embedded in our organization. So yes, absolutely, it will save us money, and we'll automate internally, and that's great for profit margin. But the really exciting thing for us and where we're earning revenues today, is its applications to the world of sport and the revenue opportunities that, that's giving us and the differentiators that's giving us compared to anyone else in the market.

And just 1 last 1 before we wrap up. CFO transition. Do you mind just touching on that?

Yes, of course. Yes, yes. That's my [indiscernible] So look, I mean, I've been -- done 6 years at Genius, I've done listed [ 4.5 years ]. I've been talking to Mark, I probably talked to many people in this room that ultimately, the CFO role needs to be a New York-based role. I joined the London business that was hoping to break the U.S. I now work for U.S. business with a legacy London management team. So we've appointed Bryan Castellani, who's joining us in October. Bryan is a great guy. I've seen him in the suite quite a lot. I described in the other day as a grownup. He is just coming out as CFO of Warner Music, ESPN, Disney, so he knows the space really well. He will sit in New York. So that's a huge benefit, not just the IR team, but if you think about we've appointed Chief Technology Officer, Chief Product Officer, Chief People Officer, all out of New York. So I'm thrilled. I'm around for a little bit longer. So there'll be a decent space of handover. Bryan is joining in October. And in truth, Jason, there's always the right moment to leave an organization and to leave Genius today when there's more opportunity at Genius today than there's ever been in the 6 years that I've worked here, I think a good moment, and I'll hand the baton over to Bryan to lead Genius through the next 5, 10 years.

Well, you certainly did a great job there.

Well, that's great time, Jason. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for your time as always.