Genomma Lab Internacional, S.A.B. de C.V. (LABB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everybody. I'm [ Damian ] [indiscernible]. Let me introduce myself as well briefly. I'm the global supply chain leader for Genomma. As 52 years old, I'm [ Argentine ]. I'm an engineer, specialized in industrial engineering. I have an MBA. I work for P&G for more -- almost 28 years. I work in different operations. I work in manufacturing, logistics, planning, customer service, purchases and engineering. I work in many countries as well, not only Argentina, from where I'm coming, but as well as in U.S., Venezuela, Brazil and Chile as well. So I have experience in many different categories, but I want to highlight the ones related to Genomma: personal care, health care and [indiscernible]. First of all, I want to say to you guys, welcome. Welcome to our site. Welcome to Toluca and since I'm saying this because this is our home, our house, I want to highlight the way I see we are building up this house. Let me start with a solid base. First of all, and you have seen this, we have top notch technology, definitely, as well, now we have experienced and passionate people. Again, definitely. And the last one, we have available installed capacity, especially in OTC and in personal care. Having said that, I want to explain to you guys that [indiscernible] are going to help us build up this house. The first one is manufacturing IWS. We're going to be implementing this. What is manufacturing IWS? This is the integrated work system that is kind of the manufacturing culture that we're going to be following. It's kind of religious, okay? You follow that. It's pure discipline. And it's based in 2 concepts: 0 losses and defects, and full accountability and ownership from our people, as well, it has progressed in the time, and today, we are seeing this as well as an end-to-end approach and sustainability and digital in the system. So this is critical for us. Whereas as we speak, we are starting the process and it's going to be critical, especially in the way we are performing or managing our assets in the plan. The second one, we need sales. We need more production definitely. Having said that, we are expanding our formats, especially in OTC. Today, we have the licenses and as well the GMPs for Mexico, only for solid and semi-solid. We are in the process in [ oral ] liquid, in topical liquid and [ coating. ] We're expecting news in the coming months. As well as expanding formats, the other thing we are doing is accelerating the transition of the transfers from our Maquiladora is [indiscernible] manufacturing to us. Here, as I said, from our manufacturers, from [indiscernible] that is a small site as well owned by Genomma, but as well, we are opening the door to do vertical integration and in-house operations. What I mean here is, for example, as we speak, we are doing [ bottle blowing ] in our home, in our plant just at the back, there is something premium. So it's not only we are bringing production here in terms of finished product, but as well, we are expanding our concept to materials in our way of vertical integration. And the last one is we are as well expanding the scope, we see how to gather, how to bring more production to this site. In this concept, we are following 3 elements. The first one, we want to be a competitive export agent for Genomma, especially in [indiscernible] countries, especially in Central America. And we're going to be competing against the third-party manufacturing guys producing locally for that countries. So for that, we need to be competitive. We need to keep reducing our costs in order to be able to keep growing in terms of production. Also, we are thinking or switching the way we are seeing our opportunities, and we are thinking of doing external maquila. I'm talking about producing for others in order to fill in the capacity, I share with you guys that is available now. And finally, this is a big lab for our innovation. Given all the capabilities we have, this is a perfect place to help our friends in marketing and sales and test new innovations for the business. So what about the [ roof? ] What are the expectations in the coming years. Let me start talking about efficiency. Efficiency, the way I see, it is the way we manage or perform our assets. Today -- last year really 2022, I would say that our efficiency was around 50%. This is not a good number, but a number that is in line with the plant that is starting up and coming, as I said, from Portogalo, let me tell you, this is typical in the year 1 or year 2 in a startup. But this year, we are working hard. And by the way, we have pretty early news, good news. We are aiming to be 70%. I'm expecting some of the operations even higher than the number, especially Suerox. Next year it should be 80%. And I'm expecting 85%. That 85% is a magical number, really. This is an excellent number happened to be in P&G, but I know in all the other companies like Unilever, Mondelez, et cetera. That's the target number, 85%. That's excellence in manufacturing. I'm expecting that in 2025. So I was talking about the efficiency that is related to the machines. Let's talk about people, productivity. This is an index we use that is related with this money that we are generating behind people, okay? I don't want to get into the details of the number, but see that we are doubling that number next year. So our productivity is going to be the double in 2024 and keep progressing in 2025. By the way, all of these, just to make it happen that we are going to be delivering the 250 almost or 350. This is the range we are aiming to in our margin points, bps. Also by having this plant, we have on top, other benefits. Because of the plant, we have better regulatory controls. Because of the plant, we are going to have less inventory. Because of the plant, we are going to have much better customer service. Let me show you how we'll see -- I'm seeing the growth. If we consider this site, how much of the global sales we are producing here today? The number is 5%. But next year, we're going to be doubling that number. It's going to be 10%. And we're working hard for making it happen to 30% in the next years. And the long-term target is 60%. Why not 100%? Definitely, in some cases, we are not going to be that competitive, especially for example, Suerox. It's going to be hard for us to deliver good cost, logistics cost to Argentina's [ Suerox ] for example, okay? And on top, in some countries, we have some barriers in terms of tax protection. So we believe that 60% is a good, good number, we can achieve in the mid or long term. And given that we're going to be growing our production numbers, at the same time, and this is at the [indiscernible], we're going to be lowering our inventory, definitely. And why? This is a more reliable operation versus our maquila [indiscernible]. This is much more flexible. There's no lead time, okay? I don't need to wait for the product coming into our warehouse, distribution center. We are going to have all the inventory in the same place, much better. Speeding inventory means more inventory to the system. Concentrating inventory, much better definitely. And of course, given that we have this plant, we can go for the just-in-time approach. How I'm going to be measuring this plant, and how I'm going to be mentioning myself? I'm not going to get into all the different variables, but let me share with you the main 5 buckets that we have. In the first one, I need to help as operations grow in sales. And the way we're going to be doing that is service -- improving service. There, you're going to see many different measures. At the top, I'm highlighting which for me is the most important. Fill rate is the opportunity here in Genomma, but as well there are other things that we're going to be monitoring and following as well as focus accuracy, on-time service measure by customer, et cetera, et cetera. The second bucket, how I'm going to be helping the margin -- growing the margin? The answer is reducing cost. That's why we're going to be monitoring COGS but as well different elements, not only at the plant level, not only in manufacturing but as well in logistics and some others like scrap, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Per bucket, I need to have in the way we are managing our assets, cash. And in the case of manufacturing, cash is inventory. And given my team in purchases as well as account payables. These are the 2 main variables in which we're going to be helping the system in cash. And as I said before, [indiscernible] opportunity in inventory, no excuses given we're going to be growing production. The fourth one is organization. It's critical in manufacturing to have a good and healthy organization, okay? At the end of the day, everything happens because of our people. So we're going to be monitoring different variables, related specifically about the organization. And finally, fundamentals: QA, safety, regulatory. All of these should be on the focus and going to be measured. And all of us, all my team, myself, we're going to be measured based on all these elements. The same structure is going down, all our people, whatever technician we have at the floor. Having said that, that's my part. I think that the Q&As are going to happen at the end, no? Jorge, please.

[Foreign Language] and good morning. We are going to continue in English just because we have a few people connected from different parts of the world right now, and that's why we're trying to accommodate to everybody. Welcome. Welcome to our house, as [ Damian ] says. It's a pleasure for me to see you here after having seen during many meetings in the last 4 years: in conferences, in dinners, in lunches or [indiscernible] or whatever. It's outstanding to see you together here at our house for the first time, a house that saw the light for the first time just 18 months ago. So this is a baby. This is a baby house. And as [ Damian ] explained that we have the highest potential in terms of how we expect this baby to grow, to become a child, [indiscernible] an experience adult in the near future. Today, I want to stress in this opening just 2 quick things that you're going to see during the next 1.5 hours or more or less. The first one is the team, the Genomma team. The Genomma team is here, you'll see on the table, 3 familiar faces plus mine. These 4 people that have been part of the team in the last almost 5 years continue -- will continue to be in the team. And we'll continue being behind what's happening in the company. We are changing a little bit some roles, because some of us get bored with what they were doing. They are going to do something different, new, interesting, but at the end, the 4 of us will continue behind the wheel here. In addition to this team, we have also other people from the company connected today that are watching or listening, and we have a great team from the plant here. You see [ Damian ] represents a great group of people that are responsible for the future of this site. Many of you asked me in the last 4.5 years, Genomma is the first time that is going to develop a plan, that is risky, we have doubts, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, it is true. Genomma is new to this manufacturing world. However, the team we have is of the similar level and experience of any of the teams you can find in any multinational in Mexico. No difference. And I can -- a [ weakness ] of that because I participated in the hiring of several of them too, of course. And the second point is the continuity in the strategy of the company. What Marco is going to present in the next few minutes is a perfect complement and continuation of the strategy that you guys have been listening from me, Antonio, mainly in the last almost 5 years. We have worked together to develop this new [ phase, ] the new era of Genomma, and you'll see that we are being very aggressive for what is being expected in the next few years. And as I said, it is a perfect continuation of the [indiscernible] [ pillars ] that we've been telling you about in the last few years. And I want you to keep that in mind while you listen to Marco. Let me show quickly what we have in the next [indiscernible], as I said, 70, 80 minutes. Number one is being done, and I'm going to leave in a minute, Rodrigo, with you that once we say hi also to the group. Then Marco is going to talk about this strategic framework that I just mentioned that is ideal perfect continuation of what we have done in the last few years. And you'll see the drivers, you will see the focus, you'll see the expectations that we have behind this new era. Then Antonio is going to wrap up, telling us about some of the financial key topics that are always very interesting behind that plan, of course, reminded us of some of the achievements over the last few years. And then Rodrigo is going to highlight a few things from a strategic standpoint that we want you to take home with you in the next, as I said, next 60, 80 minutes. So with that, let me just leave Rodrigo with you, so that he can say hi to you guys.

Well, first of all, thanks, everyone. Thank you for being here, thanks to all the analysts, all the investors and every single person that put this day together, so we all can be here. Thank you, Antonio, for all the effort and also Jorge. And I want to say hi to many familiar faces that I haven't seen in some years, but I'm very happy to see them again. And I was just -- to tell you a little bit about where we come from. And just every time that I come here to the factory, to the plant and to the distribution center, I remember 27 years ago when I was starting this, packing the products, what is [indiscernible] right now in my father's garage, and we're putting the product together, and we're crazy about the supply chain and the cost. The same thing that [ Damian ] just presented, we were -- we had the same problem 27 years ago in a different scale. And you've seen what it's now, I feel very committed, and I feel very thankful for the team and the people that have done this possible. And looking forward in the future, I was seeing yesterday, I believe, that [indiscernible] being a company in Romania, I believe. And I was thinking, wow, it's amazing because one of the things that you saw in the video that we have here and we're planning to bring school kids and to give them a tour and they can prepare some body lotions and explain to their moms and explain every single day to hundreds of kids, what we do here and the potential that this industry has. And I remember, when I was a kid going to [indiscernible] and doing the tour in their factories. And that's why we brought that idea here. But more than that, I see be involved as a company that is an example. More than the products that they sell that some of us might not like and some others may like. But I mean, how do you create a company that is, I believe, in 38 countries with that power and with that drive? And it's only with 1 thing. It's not with products, it's not adding extra sugar to the roles, it's with people. And people comes with a power culture that it's underneath what really is -- what you see. And this is the purpose of Genomma in the future, it has been in the past. I want to thank -- well, Antonio, thank Antonio for putting this together. I want to thank Jorge for all these years that you did an amazing transformation, and he encouraged so much these values of how important people is. And also I thank Marco for these many years that you have been in the company, doing a great change and looking forward for what you are going to do also in the future. So we want you to go ahead and tell everybody the plans that we have in the future. Thank you, Marco. Thank you, everyone.

I have tears in my eyes. We [indiscernible] for what we have [ learnt ] company in such a short period of time, only took 5 years. This is our first world class company. I am extremely excited. I'm extremely happy for the huge upside potential that Genomma has for the coming years for 4 reasons. Number 1 is that over the past 25 years, this company was able to build 3 sets of capabilities that combined make this company unique, differentiated. I will talk about this in a second. This business model works. Let me just name a few examples, very recent, we launched agreement [indiscernible] in Chile. And in 1.5 years, we took 5 points of market share from Gillette. Nobody does that. In Colombia, we entered the analgesics category. And everybody knows that entering the analgesics categories, you don't enter with a brand from scratch. You acquire a brand. It's a very tough category to compete. We launched our brand from scratch [indiscernible]. And in less than 2 years, we are the #3 player in the category with 7 points of market share. So the business model works. Number 3, we're cheap. We're obviously undervalued. It's a very good time to buy our stocks. And then when you look at -- when you combine the fact that we have a business model that is unique, that is differentiated, that nobody else has and that it works. And when you look at our market shares, when you look at OTC with only 5.4 points of market share and 3.7 in personal care, just imagine what the potential is for the company in the coming years. Before we get into the discussion of the plans, I want you to keep in mind 2 words, to write them down or keep them in your mind. Number one, focus on the core brands; and number two, productivity. And we get back to that points in a second. So now, for the past 25 years, Genomma was able to build 3 capabilities. Number one, our consumer communication model. It's a unique model, it's very flexible, very agile. Let me give you a few data points. We are 1.5 million minutes on air, digital and TV every year. We create from 0, from scratch, 1,700 spots, and we do this in just 3 days. It takes us 3 days to create 1 spot from the creative idea to putting the spot in the air. For our competitors, that's a process that takes between 6 and 9 months. And we do it very effectively. The cost for us to do 1 spot, the budget is around $10,000, give or take. For our competitors, that's $300,000 plus. Number two, our geographic footprint. Today, we operate with fully owned operations in 20 countries. We have a team, as Jorge mentioned, that is at the level of the best. I've worked for 19 years at P&G, and I use P&G as a benchmark. I believe that P&G is benchmark in terms of developing talent. And I can tell you, after 8 years of working at Genomma, that today, we have as good or better team than P&G and all of our competitors. It takes us 6 months to roll out an initiative that is successful in 1 country to the other 20. So we can launch a product in Mexico and roll it out in 6 months to the balance of the market. That's a competitive advantage. Our competitors, that's a process that normally takes more than 3 years. And lastly, the go-to-market, which I personally created, implemented and led for the past 8 years. We have today, a go-to-market that is at the level of the [ best ] in the region. In some cases, probably better. So you might be thinking, yes, all of our competitors, they have this. And you're right, but they don't have the 3 of them together. So let me take you through some examples. So let's take, for example, Quala. Quala is a fantastic, very successful Latin American company, Colombian. They have a consumer communication model that is probably comparable to ours. They have a go-to-market that is very strong, very comparable to ours as well, but they don't have the footprint. They operate in only 3 markets in Latin America, we operate in 20. And you can go all to the extreme and take the Colgates, the Unilivers and the P&Gs and Bayers of the world. And we can go through the 3 capabilities that we have. They obviously have the go-to-market. They are very good. They have been doing this for 100 years. They have, obviously, a footprint, these are global multinational companies, but they don't have the personal communication model. So what makes Genomma unique and what makes this company such a threat for our competitors is the combination of these 3 things. And I will show you in a minute how it works. But before we do that, let's talk about what you guys are here to listen, which is shareholders' value creation. The first point is I am personally committed to deliver on the 2024, 2025 targets that Jorge and Antonio have already shared with you, several times in the past. My signature is behind those numbers, MXN 20 billion and 24%, 25% margin EBITDA. Consider it done. Now what's new? What you should expect under my leadership going forward? What's going to be different? What's new? Two things. Number one, very intentional focus on the core brands. We're going to sell or divest the noncore. This will allow us to get our management and our resources like GRPs go-to-market to really focus on the brands that are proven to work and where we compete in very large categories. And that will allow us to get -- accelerate our top line growth. We have a plan that we have already worked over the past few months, where we believe that we can add on top of the MXN 20 billion, another MXN 10 billion in top line growth behind this strategy. And the second piece that you should expect going forward is 1 word, which is productivity. Productivity is going to become a core part of our culture, is going to be embedded in everything we do. We have already worked a plan that I am going to share with you in a few slides, where we are going to be delivering MXN 1.8 billion in productivity savings. So you're probably thinking by when, and the answer is, I still don't know. I have been officially in this role for 2 weeks, 3 weeks maybe now. The plans are there. We have been working on these plans for many months, and I will be telling you the date in the months to come. It's not going to be 100 years okay? But you'll see more on this in the next -- when we touch base in the quarterly calls going forward. So in summary, my commitment, my signature, my name behind the 2024, 2025 targets, MXN 20 billion, 24%, 25% EBITDA margin. What's new, what you should expect what's going to be our language going forward? What are we going to talk about in every quarterly call is 2 things: top line growth on core brands, categories, and productivity. That's it. Very simple, very powerful. So let's get into core brands. So we're going to talk core brands and then productivity at the end. So let's get into core brands. So when you look at this chart, go back to 2009, 2010, okay, in the chart to the left. And what you have is a much smaller company where 62 brands made up for 70% of the sales at that time. And then fast forward, 2022, and what you get is a much larger company and where 18 brands make up for 70% of the sales. So let's analyze this for a second before we keep moving. If you go back to 2010, 2009, what you have is a very complex company to operate, massive amount of SKUs, very difficult to create [indiscernible], to negotiate with suppliers, very difficult to handle cash inventories, very complex, slow turnover SKUs, high inventories, a lot of cash invested and manufacturing extremely difficult, lower volume per SKU, a lot of SKUs, you have to stop, change, change the packaging, the labeling, very costly. The whole supply chain is a nightmare, right? What you have today, it's more in line with what you should be expecting in an accelerated way going forward. It's a much simpler company. Fewer brands today, 18. You should expect that number to keep going down. More decent management of the operation, easier to handle the cash. We're starting to have scale, we can now negotiate hard. I'm going to name a few examples. We can now negotiate really hard with suppliers, with customers, because we have leverage, we have scale. Manufacturing, now we can have a plant, and this is one of the plants we are -- we have another plant in [indiscernible] we're integrating vertical processes like [ Damian ] said, we couldn't have done that in the past. So you should expect, as [ Damian ] mentioned, this plan to continue to be filled with products, cost keep going down. Cash, when you talk about inventories, when you have fewer brands with higher turnover, cash is more efficient, inventories are easier to manage. And that's the kind of company we want to have down the road, okay? So when you say focused on core brands, this is a picture of the idea. That's the direction we're taking as a company, okay? So let me take you through the exercise that we run, that we went through to decide which are going to be those core categories and those core brands. When you look at this chart, and we did this exercise for personal care and then for OTC. So when you look at this chart, what you see is in the X-axis like you see a score. It's a score that basically says how high or low are the probabilities of Genomma to be successful in a specific category. So you go all the way to the right, you see categories where our probabilities of being successful are really high. If you go to the left, you see categories that our probabilities of being successful are lower because of category knowledge, barriers of entry, CapEx investment, et cetera, okay? In the Y-axis, what you see is the category size. So you'll see that the categories we have chosen are very large categories, above $1 billion. And then the size of the bubble is the category margin that the competitors normally make on average in these categories. So for personal care, we have chosen hair care, isotonic beverages, facial skin care, blades and razors and body care. And then we are analyzing some here. But those are going to be the core categories. That means that the brands that we have that compete in these categories are going to be core. The brands we have that compete in the categories more towards the left are noncore. Same exercise for OTC, exactly the same thing. And here, you will see categories like analgesics, cough and cold, derma, OTC, infant nutrition, et cetera. So this is going to be our focus going forward. We have proven models that have proven to be successful in each of these categories. We're going to focus all our resources, management, GRPs, go-to-market, everything behind our brands in these categories that are very large categories where we have already proven to grow share and where margins are attractive. That's it. That's what we're going to do, okay? And then for the ones of you that are asking how are we going to add another MXN 10 billion. As for the [ MXN 20 billion, ] this is how we're going to do. This is preliminary. As I said, we're working on this. This is work in progress, but these are the building blocks, okay? Now you're probably thinking, I mean, PowerPoint and Excel spreadsheets and futuristic projections are very easy. Yes, you're right. It took us like an hour to do this. It's very easy. So now, what I am going to try to do is I'm going to try to get you to believe in what I'm saying. So I'm going to show you real life examples of the things we have done behind this model over the past years. And hopefully, after we go through these examples, you will truly believe what we are talking down the road. So let's start with Tio Nacho. Go back to 2016, 2017. [ Nielsen ] wasn't even adding to this quarter in the first quarter. Our competitors didn't look at Tio Nacho. We had no respect, very small brand, nothing. What we did? We created a product, a fantastic product with an incredible formula. For the ones of you that have tried the product, you will agree. Fantastic packaging, a brand that's a concept -- a consumer concept that is winning, that goes in line with the global trends: sustainability, natural products, okay? And what we did, we put it through the funnel, the funnel we created behind consumer communication, go-to-market and footprint, like a machine, okay? So we put that through that machine and look at what we have done with 1 brand in just 5, 6 years. We created a brand, if you look at the chart on the left, that now our competitors, they do look in the [indiscernible] scorecard. They are scared of us, we are a threat. If you look at the category leader, which you all know which one is, there's markets where Tio Nacho is getting really close. And we're talking brands here that have been in the market for more than 100 years. And this is a brand that is only 6 years is getting really close to be the category leader. Additionally, look at the size of the category, $2.5 billion, just Latin America. We're talking Latin America here without door-to-door, just exactly where we compete, $2.5 billion. Only 3 points of market share. Imagine what the future looks like for a brand like Tio Nacho. All we have to do is to continue to do what we have been doing. Now this is a fantastic example. Look at this brand. Go back again into 2016, 2017. We were nothing, we didn't exist, peanuts. Last year, we sold almost $100 million. In how many years we did that? 4, 5, 6, whatever. $100 million brand, we created in 5, 6 years. Again, what we do is just -- okay, we said we created a consumer concept that is a winning consumer concept that goes in line with the global trends of high hydration, high irons, no sugar, no calories, fantastic packaging, great flavor, great product, and we put it through our funnel: consumer communication, go-to-market and footprint. And that's why you get, $100 million brand. And again, look at the category size, $1.9 billion. You look at our market share, 2% or nothing. Imagine what the future looks like for Suerox in the coming years. But the most exciting news about Suerox is that most of this business, most of the $100 million that you're seeing here, it's only done in Mexico. So imagine what we can do if we expand the successful product to the markets where we operate that we have already started. We started -- we launched in Chile in 2021. And guess what? In 1.5 years, we get to 18 points of market share in Chile, and we are competing against the big ones here. We're competing against [indiscernible]. Those are our competitors. And we got to get to 18 points of market share. This is public information, you can check it. We launched in the U.S., very successful launch. Mostly focused on California and Texas, and now we're expanding to the rest of the states. Very successful business, growing, fantastic acceptance by the consumers. And right now, in the past 2 months, we have launched in Peru. We have launched in Brazil. We are launching in Colombia in the coming months. We're launching in Ecuador. We launched in Central America at the end of last year. So what should we expect? And again, great consumer proposal through our funnel of consumer communication, go-to-market and footprint. That's how it works. I was having a conversation with a guy from Reckitt in Brazil like 4 or 5 years ago, and we're talking about this category, analgesics, and he said Reckitt will never ever try to launch a brand in a category like analgesics. It's crazy, no one does that. If you want to compete in analgesics, you have to buy, acquire, M&A. It's impossible. So look at what we have achieved. Again, you go back to '16, '17 and we were nothing, okay? And here are 3 examples. After all, in Argentina where we are the #1 analgesic brand in the category and by the way, #1 OTC brand in the market, period. With [indiscernible] has been in Mexico for a number of years, #3 player in the market. But the most impressive example that I want to share with you is this [indiscernible], Colombia. We started from scratch, nothing. We were a nobody. And in 2, 3 years, we are the #3 player in the market. And you know what, we're really close to the #2. I think these guys are going to be #3 in less than 12 months. And we're going to be #2, 7 points of market share in analgesics. We are a brand that we created from 0, we put it through our funnel of consumer communication, go-to-market and footprint. And that's what you get. We're missing -- okay. So -- this is what I mentioned at the beginning. Look at -- I think this is a very illustrative example of what this company is capable of doing. We launched a brand from scratch, nobody knew. Groomen didn't exist. We registered Groomen like 2 or 3 years ago. We didn't have a packaging. We didn't have a [ product, ] nothing, 0, okay? So we created this from 0, winning proposition, better performance than our competitor, winning consumer proposal, consumer concept. We launched in Chile, and in 1.5 years, we take 5 points from Gillette. Now they're sacred of us. And then skincare. Skincare is also, as you see, very large. Actually, the largest category where we compete, $2.5 billion in Latin America. We are already a very decent player with 8 points of market share. It's been a challenge. Over the past year, we get [indiscernible] growing and then you get [indiscernible] declining and then you get [indiscernible] going back again and then we launched [indiscernible] and it was particularly [indiscernible] and so we kind of have been stagnant for the past 4, 5, 6 years. But the plans we have going forward, I am extremely confident, that will allow us to actually get to that -- to those 10 points that we're putting as a target. They are real. We're not doing something different here. It's -- we're thinking about a winning consumer proposal and putting through our funnel of consumer communication, go-to-market and footprint. That's it. That's what we're doing. To gain more credibility, I want to share with you what we're doing in the U.S., which is a market that has been a question mark for many years. Right now, I can say very confidently that the upside potential in the U.S. is huge. 2, 3 years ago, we completely reengineered our business model in the U.S. It took us like around a year to implement it. And now it's working. We've grown last year, almost 20%. And yes, you might say this is just 1 year, but I wouldn't be sharing this with you is if I would believe that this is just 1 year. We -- at the start of this year has also been very strong. We're seeing very strong performance. In the U.S., we expect to get to the $90 million this year and then rapidly, we're going to be approaching $100 million, $150 million, okay? How are we doing this? Again, we're focusing on fewer brands core, where we know we have a business model that works. So [indiscernible] is a fantastic example. It's becoming the #1 brand in the U.S., selling like crazy, where we are. Tukol also, fantastic brand, performing real well, selling 120% more than a year ago; Cicatricure; and Silka. Importantly, you know that in the U.S., e-commerce is very important. 10% of our sales in the U.S. market, we do through e-commerce already. And look at the reviews for Cicatricure and Silka, and we're number bestseller for Amazon and Amazon's Choice. So working really well. So you should expect a very strong performance in the U.S. going forward as well. Okay. So that's it for core brands. So I talked like message here to -- for you guys to take home. One is full commitment from myself on the '24, '25 targets, MXN 20 billion, 24%, 25% margin EBITDA. That's -- it has my signature. Okay? What's new down the road? What's going to be different under my leadership in the coming years? It's focused on the core. Sell, divest the non-core. Accelerate top line growth, hopefully, those MXN 1 billion that I am presenting on top of the MXN 20 billion. And hopefully, these examples helps illustrate and build more credibility on what we're trying to do here. Okay? Now let's talk about productivity. We've -- so for the past months, we've worked on a plan that is very concrete that will allow us to get MXN 1.8 billion in productivity savings. Some of this money is going to go against the '24, '25 targets to get to the 24%, 25% EBITDA margin and more. So let me take you through the building blocks, 5 areas, and I'm going to share with you some examples here so you have a better taste of what I'm talking about. Well, the plan, that's pretty obvious. I'm not going to spend more time on that one. Vertical integration is a very interesting one. We've -- so before, in the recent months, we have integrated in the plans, blowing and injection. So we took one of our suppliers that was scattered throughout Mexico. We're transporting here, okay, basically, which obviously is very expensive. And then we were duplicating expenses because you have all the machinery in their plant, okay, duplicating fixed cost. And what we said is let's integrate both of our companies. So they moved to San Cayetano. They moved the blowing and injection machines, and we were able to lower the cost by more than 50% on the Gulf, and we're working similar projects with our suppliers. Product cost, this is a huge one. We've -- let me give you an example. Today, we have 23 cardboard suppliers, 23. Okay? So we're working in a project that I am personally involved in which we are doing several things. Number one is we gave all our packaging to 3 suppliers. And we told them, give us a proposal that is a lot more cost effective without losing the consumer perspective. Okay? Take in mind that this is a marketing company. Rodrigo founded this company with 100% of his mind thinking on the consumer, marketing communication. And most of our packaging today is really thought behind our marketing strategy and not manufacturing because we were not manufacturers. So imagine what the potential of savings there. Okay? So we told them to get back to us with a proposal, and we reviewed several proposals in the last weeks. And we're going to go down from 23 to 1 suppliers. We are going to manufacture the entire packaging for all our markets with that supplier, and we're going to reengineer the thickness of the cardboard, the type of cardboard, the inks that we are using for printing the cases and so on. I expect to get anything between 30% and 40% cost reduction just in packaging. We're doing exactly the same thing with bottles, with PET. We have today like 7 PET suppliers, and we're going to go down to only 1. If you look at the thickness of the bottles, you guys used this a few minutes ago, the formula is fantastic. But the packaging, when you look at the packaging, it's very thick. So we're using a lot of PET here that we shouldn't be. I think we can go down in bottles like this like to 10% or 20% of what we have this immaterial and create a huge amount of savings there. We've done the exercise with [ Xerox ], and I will share that with you in a second. SG&A. We -- this is twofold. Part of the sales will come from cutting out everything that is nonproductive and that doesn't have a decent payout. And then the other piece is by focusing on the core, okay, on the core brands and growing top line. We expect to maintain most of those costs fixed or almost fixed. The productivity will come behind that. Okay? And then go to market, we're looking at everything. We're looking at negotiations with customers. We're looking at expenses, the cost of doing business in general, serving our stores, customers. And we expect another MXN 400 million there. Okay? So that's how you get to the MXN 1.8 billion in productivity savings. Lastly, let me share with you 2 examples again to build credibility on what I'm saying in terms of productivity. This is just a Vanart bottle. We took the product, We cut the cost of this product significantly, massively. We -- basically, repackaging reengineering, we negotiated with suppliers. We reviewed our formula, and we integrated the blowing processes here in San Cayetano. And we got to save almost $5 million a year just by doing that. Simple. Suerox. It's another example. As I said, we looked at the thickness of the volume. We went down from 33 to 27 grams. We have integrated the blowing process of the PET bottle here in the plant. And we're looking at other products like the caps, but that's when we got already MXN 130 million in savings. This is like $6 million, $7 million a year. Just -- if you add only six samples, only [indiscernible] Suerox, you are up almost MXN 230 million, Just in 2 brands. Just Mexico. This is just Mexico. Only 2 brands only in Mexico, more than $10 million in savings. Just imagine the opportunities we have if we take a look at this for all the brands in all the markets where we operate. Okay? So that's my plan. Okay? To summarize, I will say it again, my commitment on the '24, '25 targets. Second, what's different? The core pillars of the plan going forward: focus, really intentional focus on core brands. I think you got the benefits of doing that. And second, productivity. Very simple, very powerful. Okay? And finally, before I pass it on to [indiscernible] this is probably a question that all of you have by now, right? What's to expect going forward in 2023? One, we have the expectation with proven results in the first months of the quarter -- first quarter that we can deliver double-digit growth in basically, not all, it says all, but basically all the markets. We have markets like Peru that everybody knows is going through a difficult political situation there. We are struggling a little bit in Chile, especially in skin care with our friends from derma cosmetics. But in general, if you look at the large markets, the U.S., Brazil, Colombia, and Argentina and Mexico, we do expect to deliver double-digit growth. That means gross share in general. It's impossible to grow share in all the brands, in all the SKUs all the time. But in general, you should expect us to grow share and to grow ahead of inflation in these markets. When you look at the report currency, the peso. Okay? Well, I mean that's a big question there. It will depend on what the central bank decides to do. If they keep the rates at the 11% that they have today, the peso will continue to strengthen. If they keep rising rates, like the U.S. is going to move, the peso will probably weakens a little bit, I don't know. So our forecast is made with a peso of 18.6. And yesterday, the peso was 17 something. Okay? So as long as the Mexican peso, super peso how they call, continues to strengthen, our reporting numbers will go down. Okay? So right now, I am keen to say that we should expect based on the current reality something in the mid-single digits, but I don't know. It will really depend on the Mexican peso. Okay? And then lastly, this is a very powerful question out there, I know. What is your EBITDA? I will repeat what I said. We now get to the 24%, 25%, okay? We are going to get there. I have the plans. It's very concrete. We know how to do it, but it's going to be on an accelerated pace. So you're going to see a slight improvement in 2023 and then a more accelerated improvement in 2024 and then a higher and more accelerated improvement in 2025. And biggest reason behind that, I think is pretty obvious, is the ramp-up of the process of the plan that it took us more than what we would have wanted. Okay? Unfortunately, not everything depends on us there, but we are going to get to the 24%, 25%. It's just going to be a curve like this. Okay? And there's going to be Q&A, so we'll answer those after Antonio's presentation. Thank you.

Thank you, Marco. And thank you, everybody, who came now here to Toluca. And thank you to the 114 people that are either connected or here with us. We have people in New York; Boston; London; Edinburgh; Sao Paulo; and in Asia, Vietnam. Thank you for staying late.Its 1 a.m., a little bit more than that. So where we believe -- I'm going to try to be brief because, obviously, there's an important section that Rodrigo will share with everybody and obviously, Q&A. So let me talk about 4 topics. The first one, and Marco introduced this a little bit, it's ForEx, the context that we are facing. Number two, just a reminder of our results from our strategy. Basically, we're going to review the past 4 years. Talk a little bit about financial leverage and capital allocation. Because -- so as Marco was explaining, obviously, every -- the strategy that he shared with us is very important. And we don't control ForEX -- from a local currency perspective, our businesses are very healthy, growing very fast. But yes, there is the super peso, the super peso. And as long as we have the super peso, there's 2 effects. Number one, in our consolidated financials, when we translate results from our international subsidiaries, we're going to get less Mexican pesos as long as this situation stays. Let's see how long that stays. Number two, there's another impact, which is whatever we export from Mexico to those subsidiaries, they will have to pay more in terms of the local currency because the peso has strengthened. This is going to be just in the short term. Because in the midterm, as Marco was saying, we're going to be negotiating with suppliers. And as the peso is stronger, all of the imports of APIs, raw materials, et cetera, will also be cheaper in Mexican peso terms. But let's talk a little bit about ForEx. This is the exchange rate, the number of pesos that we need to buy USD 1. What is the reason behind this? Or what is the impact? Let's start with the impact. So if we compare Q4 2021 versus 2022, the Mexico peso strengthened 5.2%. So what's going to happen in Q1? We don't know, but at least we know today that it has strengthened even more, almost 9%, almost 9%. The Mexican peso was 17.97 just a couple of minutes ago. So we don't know. What is driving this situation? Well, the interest rate differential between Mexico and the U.S. As we know, investors decide where to allocate their investments or their money. And as you can see in this chart, once that differential increased significantly, a lot of inflows -- foreign inflows came into Mexico. That's what's happening. The reason for that, as I said, is that the [ TE ] or [indiscernible] is significantly higher than the [indiscernible], more than 7,500 basis points of difference. Look at that difference. So how long is this going to be there, the super peso situation? We don't know, but let's look a little bit of history. Let's look at the past. Let's look at the past 3, 6 10 years. Okay? 2006 to '12, '12 to '18 and '18 and so on. Let's see that interest rate differential. How does that look like? This is how it looks like. Okay? So if we say when it goes beyond 6.5 percentage points, how long does that last? Well, in the past, it didn't last much, a month doing 3 different occasions. Right now, it's already been 3 months. How long is that going to last? I don't have the crystal ball. I don't know. But this is the long-term perspective. So right now, yes, there is the super peso. Right now, the super peso is going to be a headwind in terms of when we report the results of our subsidiaries, but I don't think it's going to last forever. Okay? And if you are making investments, you need to look not only about what's going to happen next week, but in the long term. So the super peso will be there for a while, but I don't think it's going to be there for long. Now more important, show me the money, What happened with the strategy? What happened with the results of Genomma? Over the past 4 years, this is something that all of you requested: consistent growth, consistent growth of almost double digit, 10% CAGR in terms of net revenues. But it's not only about the top line growth, it's also profitable growth with a positive flow-through. It's 11% CAGR in terms of EBITDA. Consistent. Look at the graph, this is on an annual basis. Obviously, between the quarters, there might be some volatility. But on a yearly basis, consistent growth. Let's talk about CapEx. Those of you -- many of you were in our last Investor Day in New York, 2017. And we said we're going to build a plant, and this is the picture that we show. Okay? This is what we showed, and this is what we have today. And you have a chance to see it, to see the magnitude. These are the CapEx investments that we did over the past few years. As you can see, 2022, it was finishing it. You've seen it. It's very little what is required for the future. It's basically maintenance CapEx that [ Daniel ] requires a little bit of innovation, but it's not significant. What that brings us is positive growth in terms of net operating cash flow. And we know cash is king, and cash is growing, and we don't have much significant CapEx for the future. So that's positive. In the future, productivity is very important. Marco shared with us this example of Suerox, MXN 130 million savings in terms of productivity. And it's real. You've seen it. You've seen the line. In this graph, we are comparing the unit cost of Suerox that we used to have with some compactors, some of which don't work with us anymore. Some other compactors, we still work with them. But if you see the unit cost is closer, very close to what we are having today at the plant. And again, our plant is the most efficient producer of Suerox. So Suerox is the first example. [ Daniel ] showed us this productivity, efficiency vision for the future. Obviously, it's very technical, and he did a great explanation, so I'm not going to get into that. And the challenge, of course, was we need to scale it up for more productivity. So Suerox is the first line. We need to do it with the other lines. And for personal care, it's more on us. For OTC, we still rely on some government authorizations, but that's the challenge. Now let's move on to financial leverage. In terms of financial leverage, we have been able to deleverage the company even though we have made significant CapEx investments over the past few years from almost 2x net debt-to-EBITDA to 1.4x today. As we all know, and thank you, and we have HR Ratings and Fitch here, thank you for upgrading our credit risk rating for Genomma. We are now at AA+. And those fixed income investors, which are here, as you know, we just filed yesterday with the CNBB. We just filed yesterday all the documentation to issue new -- 2 new long-term bonds to refinance the [ Sabo ] that matures in August of this year. Here are some examples. We've been very successful with the issuance of long-term bonds and also in terms of commercial paper. In commercial paper, we have a credit rating of F1+ from Fitch; or HR+1 from HR ratings, which are the highest. We also received a new loan from the IFC. And thank you to the Inter-American Development Bank; and to the IFC, who is also present here, by the way. Thank you for visiting us again. It's a MXN 60 million loan, 6-year term. It's the first ever multi-currency investment that the World Bank does in the pharma industry in the world. So from a financial perspective, things look great. Obviously, the interest rate tier, I don't like tier the way it is today. Nobody does. The super peso is a problem. And the more -- the higher it is, the more interest we pay, the less net income. And -- but it is what it is. Okay? We have to live it. We live with it, so that we will continue trying to deleverage the company. In terms of capital allocation, we promised that we will do buybacks, and we did. More than 30 million shares were bought back last quarter. We also promised dividends back in 2017, and we've paid MXN 800 million of dividends last year and MXN 400 million at the end of 2021, and that will continue. That will continue. We want to reward shareholders not only with a cash dividend. As we announced in the fourth quarter earnings release, the Board is proposing to the shareholders in the next shareholder meeting to cancel 28 million shares, so that's going to increase the share price as well. And last news, which is something that is very positive and we promise, we will be back, and we are back at the IPC Index, [ Babolsa ]. This was just a recent announcement from S&P. And with that, let me pass the microphone to our Chairman, Rodrigo Herrera. Thank you.

Thank you, Tony. Thank you so much. Well, first, I want to tell you something that it's very surprising for me. I was born in 1968. So in 1976, I remember being 8 years old and seeing my father and my family like in shop because the peso devaluator went from MXN 12.50 to MXN 25. Then in '82, again, I think it went from MXN 25 to MXN 50, and it was just like the biggest disaster and crisis. Then I remember in '94 that it went from MXN 3,000. So from MXN 1250 to MXN 3,000, then we erased the 3 0s. And it went to MXN 6,000. And at that moment, my family like lost everything. I'm very -- it's very interesting how I never thought that we would be complaining about a very strong peso right now, but you never know how economics will develop. Well, let me I tell you, I have 2 very important commitments. First is the people that work in the organization and second is the creating -- the creation of shareholders' value. And this is something that we're planning to do one way or the other, and let me walk you through a little bit how we're planning to do this. So first of all, aligned with the strategy that Marco pointed, we are focusing on doing core brands and doing megabrands. So as you can see here, you see Alliviax, you see Tafirol, Xray,[ Yolektro ]. So the look and feel of all the brands across all the territories are going to be like one brand. So that makes -- really see multiple things, the TV commercials, the point of sell material, the communication, the key visuals. Everything makes very simple. And although there are some regulatory issues and also there is some brand equity of certain particular brands, all the look and feel are going to be across the main categories. Let me walk you because one of the things that we're going to do is we're planning to -- in the second part in the shareholder value, we're planning and we explore the possibility of the invest some of the brands. Here, you're familiar with these numbers. Here are some of the most deposit transactions of what these categories are value. And as you can see the average, in the past years, it's been 16.3x EBITDA. So this means that there is a lot of value in the brands themselves, much more. This is the typical case where the sum of the parts is worth much more than the whole thing. But we want just to convey with you that there is a great possibility that we are going to divest certain categories, and this is why. The most important thing that we have in this company is the people, and the most important thing to create that people and that culture of people are the values, and this is the main thing that we're going to focus. Because most of these brands, we can create them from the scratch, like Marco said. So we're focusing. As you saw, we had 80-something brands, and we had less than half of the revenues that we have right now, now with 18 brands who are doing 2x the revenues. So what is this? It's the energy and the focus that we put in that brand. So as we see how the M&A [indiscernible] is going and how -- and all the acquisitions are going, we have obviously been out of M&A for multiple reasons. One, I think we have learning the task that we can create those brands, we can create those environments to compete. And the second one is because they are very expensive. I mean just the multiples that some of the companies are willing to pay are just crazy. I mean we only look at like the teasers, and then we have never passed to the second or third around the multiples that they are paying. So these are for you to know, basically the -- some of the transactions that I'm sure that you're familiar with them. And we know, as Marco mentioned, that there is like low-hanging fruit in other categories, in the categories that we are now. But there are some others like in OTC, as he mentioned, in probiotics, in multivitamins. Categories that we dive deeply into those, we can create a lot of value again. So here are some examples of the beverage industry and the multiples. So you can do certain math with -- for example, Suerox. And this is how active these categories are in terms of M&A, and so this is the main categories that we have. So last year, these were our net revenues. These are the categories where we're going to do something like what we show you that all the brands. If they defer from country to country, they are going to be with the same look and feel. So they are really going to feel like one brand. And this is just some value. Excluding -- this is important, important the MXN 3.7 billion of orders, but this is some of the value that we might be interested if the time is right. Besides some others, we're also planning to divest, to focus in greater categories, but we are going to bring shareholders' value to the company. That's something that is a fact that we're going to do one way or the other. And the other thing that is the most relevant and more important for me and for all of us is that we want to make of Genomma, like the example that I said about [ Bimbo ], as a great company with a great culture, that they are able to conquer markets as a Mexican company in 38 countries. Well, we're in 18, 20 countries. And we're planning to do the same with a very strong culture, with very strong Mexican and Latin American people, be able with that philosophy of competition, of empowering, of communication, of hard-working because that's one of the things that [ EV ] first from our culture. A lot of the companies, these great places to work, they're saying, "Oh, it's a great place to work because you don't need to work like 1 day a week or 2. And then it's very flexible." No. Here, it's going to be an amazing place to work because we're going to be winning and we're going to be competitive. So that's all, and I really appreciate for all of you to come here, for all the people that is connected in different countries and do expect a lot of things from Genomma in terms of what you heard today. Just as Marco said that his signature, and I took note, it's in that MXN 20 million and MXN24 million, MXN 25 million EBITDA in the next couple of years. You can have my signature as well that we are going to create an amazing, amazing environment to -- so all the people really want to work in a company like Genomma and that we're going to create shareholders' value. Because at the moment that when I took the company public, I committed. And that commitment is very strong, and we're going to do everything to achieve the main goals that you -- that we have. So you have my signature behind those 2 things. But I remember the one that Marco, also all of you. Thank you so much, and thank you for being today in the Genomma day. Thank you so much.

We're running a little bit late, and there's other -- so let's we will probably have 10 minutes for Q&A. Obviously, on the one-on-ones that we have or in the conferences, we are going to London next week. And to the other conferences soon, there's going to be chances to answer more questions. I don't know if that's -- see, yes.

[indiscernible]. I want to congratulate you for the factory and for organizing this event. And personally, I'm positively surprised. Also, I want to thank you for your presentation, for your valuable time with us. So in Mexico and in the world, every time, there is a more demand in clients in quality and price and in time. I have 2 questions. The first one is what is missing internally and externally as a regulated industry for giving the investors? Also every time, more demanding, the final delivery note. Return on equity is close to 13%. 10-year bond is also at 10%. And net earnings for Genomma Lab are the same 5 years ago or 8 years ago where they peaked. And the second question is related to the good news of coming back to the Mexican index. That means more passive money coming to Genomma Lab shares. But do you also expect active investors will overweight your share? Thank you.

Let's -- I want to take some of the financials -- and questions, and then I'll pass the microphone to Marco. Regarding net earnings, there's 2 aspects that we don't control. A, obviously, with higher interest rates, we pay higher. A lot of pesos go there. The other aspect is we have a subsidiary in Argentina. And there's a line there that says results of inflationary effect or the [ Repomo ], those of you who know the [ BDS ], that's a noncash line. That's an accounting line. If I was an investor or an analyst, I would take that into consideration for the net income calculations or comparables versus other companies. Because again, that's a negative, and it's noncash. Regarding promoting the company with active investors, that's what we do. That's why I said we're going next week to London, and there's a number of conferences there, not only in New York -- in London, also New York and other places, and that's what we're going to be doing. I think that -- you've seen the results in 4 years growth in terms of top line, bottom line, et cetera. That's what we are doing. Obviously, it is up to the investors to decide whether this is right investment or not. What we are doing is we're putting our money where our mouth is. We bought back shares. We will continue buying back. Obviously, we have a commitment of paying dividends. If I could, I wouldn't pay them because I would buy more shares instead. But we committed to pay dividends. Okay? So we're going to pay dividends. We're going to do buybacks. And let's see what happens with TA. But I think the future is very positive, as Marco described in the strategy. There's also a number of new avenues for growth and value creation that Rodrigo just shared with us. So it's up to everybody to know when it's a good investment. For us, it is, and that's why we're putting our money where our mouth is. Macro?

Yes. Regarding the first question, the plans are there. I try to be very as transparent as I could on what we're expecting going forward. Backwards, I think we've -- with this, we did the best we could have done. The pandemic, we were not -- we didn't have that in the forecast. It was very difficult 2 years, 2020 and 2021. Supply chain was a disaster, all over the place. Consumption in some categories went down dramatically. In others, went up. So the past is what you have, what you just mentioned. I think that now it's just a matter of focusing on the plans we have for the future. I will be personally updating you on the progress in those 2 pillars of growing core brands and productivity every quarter. So hopefully, you feel more comfortable with us coming in the future.

Joaquin?

Yes. Can you hear me?

[ Joaquin and Alo next ].

Okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Thanks for the presentation. Just I want to clarify something. Medium mixing concepts here. But in one slide, you show that by 2024, your plant is going to be at an efficiency rate of about 80%. Okay? But at that same time, by 2024, it's going to be satisfying only 10% of your product needs. Okay? So how do I reconcile those 2 numbers? And then if by 2025, we'll reach a 25% -- 24%, 25% EBITDA margin with maybe 20% capacity utilization -- or not capital utilization, but satisfaction of 12 [indiscernible] and in the longer term with 60, what kind of margin could we expect them?

I think when [ Daniel ] was mentioning the 80%, I think he was referring to the lines that are running because we have many of our lines right now are not running at full capacity. I think he was mostly referring to Suerox and probably the Shampoo, right? He also was referring internal total plant, and this is the efficiency of the lines that are running today. This is not capacity utilization. Okay? Of course, as you said, having more scale and having a good efficiency, we're going to be multiplying the production we can make. And then on the margin, the numbers that I shared that are coming directly from the plant, those numbers are calculated based upon on the transfers of the products that we're going to be manufacturing here, okay? So we're not -- the rates of total volume, total company volume manufacturing in San Cayetano is the same as we had at the beginning. Okay?

Marco here. Let me just complement that there's one part that -- there's one uncertainty, which has -- which is a regulatory permits. One thing is talking about personal care. And in that regard, we are the ones to blame if we don't deliver, okay, because there's no permits. There's no regulatory constraints there. But you've seen the lines. You've seen -- you've talked with the team. You've seen they are operating. The scale-up is something that is part of the plants. It's part of the vision. It's there. Now pharma, that's a different issue because we still depend -- we still rely on COFEPRIS and the other authorities to take that to the level that we require. So there's a little bit of uncertainty there that it's -- we don't have the crystal ball. I don't know. Were we able to answer your question?

Right now, with the [indiscernible] in terms of utility sales, coming from San Cayetano that's for the [indiscernible] quarter.

There's -- in part of Marco's presentation, and he didn't go into that level of detail because, obviously, we didn't have time, but there's other productivity initiatives that we're going to start and what we're going to do, and that we're going to try to get those savings, trying to offset the super peso, whatever macroeconomic crisis may happen in Latin America or anywhere because we want to keep delivering consistent growth consistent profitable growth and generating cash flow. So we presented the macro headwinds just to explain a little bit of what happened in Q4 and a little bit of what's happening in -- so far in Q1. But there's more productivity that we need to identify and execute so that we get more savings, and we get to the 24%, 25% or even more if we can. But it's a little bit conceptual. Alvaro?

Working ahead. My first question, sort of the road map to 60%. But I'll ask 2 other questions. You emphasized people a lot throughout the presentation. I was wondering if incentives have changed, if management incentives have changed on the compensation front to align to sort of this new reality on focusing on core brands. And two, if you could quantify maybe the divestments. That's new to the story. I was wondering if you prepared to quantify maybe X many brands or X many dollars that you'd expect to see from those sets.

Let me take the first, please ? Compensation has already been changed. All our core management team is 100% aligned to 3 variables. Actually, the compensation plan is divided into short term and long term. But both are aligned to 3 variables: top line, EBITDA and cash. Okay? So to actually get to the bonus, you need to deliver on the 3 targets. And then there is a bonus that is annual, and then there is a second that is in stocks, that it's for a 3-year target. So we are all in this company 100% aligned on the 24%, 25% 2024, 2025 targets on the long term. And then on the short term, we are aligned to delivering the top line, bottom line and cash.

And your last question about if we have quantified the potential value creation from some divestitures, it's hard to quantify, and it's not that we want to sell our brands. We love our brands. We love Suerox. We love our products. It's just that for some reason the market is not, at this moment, maybe that's going to change, it's not realizing the full value of the company. So by selling one brand, one category or maybe 2, people will say, "Oh, my god, there's a lot of value there that we haven't recognized." And we will monetize where business people. We want to maximize shareholder value. We are shareholders. A lot of -- a big part of the team are shareholders as well, and that's why we want to do. So that's something that it's new, yes. And as Rodrigo explained, it's something that maybe in the past we were not willing to do. Today, maybe we would consider doing that if the valuation is right and that sets an example of look at the value and the intrinsic value that Genomma has because they sold 1 or 2 brands and look at what they do. And after that, as Rodrigo explained, we're going to build new brands, do new things, like we did with Groomen. Okay? I mean who would have imagined that a company -- a Mexican company will be competing against the big players in [ Brussels ]. Now those who have switched to Groomen, they never go back okay? So that's -- so it's a great question, but it's hard to answer. Last question from Antonio.

Thanks for your time and the presentation. My question is regarding the U.S., you mentioned that you reconfigure the business 2, 3 years ago. But what should we expect going forward in terms of maybe expanding to new geographies, maybe working with a third partner, something like that?

You mean a third party in the U.S. or -- in the U.S? The -- our go-to-market in the U.S., we basically cover all the large pharmacy and food and grocery retailers. So we don't have a -- we don't have the need for third parties in that regard. For Suerox, that's a different story. Okay? For Suerox, we are working currently today with third-party distributors because it's -- for us, it's almost impossible to reach the millions of stores -- convenience stores in the U.S. So that's basically what you should expect.

Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us. This is your home. We wish everybody a great day. We wish that you keep on drinking Suerox and consuming our products. Thank you those in London, New York, Vietnam, Tokyo, Toronto, Frankfurt. I mean I have -- Daniel gave me the list. It's a number of places and 114 people. Thank you, everybody, and have a great day. Thank you.