Genus Power Infrastructures Limited (530343) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Genus Power Infrastructures Limited Q4 and FY '21 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kailash Agarwal, Vice Chairman of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited. And over to you, Mr. Agarwal.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you all are safe and sound. We all are facing this pandemic and having these problems. A very warm welcome to the Q4 FY '21 earning call of Genus Power. With me is Joint Managing Director of the company, Mr. Jitendra Agarwal; and our investor relations advisers, SGA. The results and investor presentations are already uploaded on the stock exchange and company website. I hope you could have seen that. Our capacity utilization remained subdued in quarter 4 FY '21 due to very muted volume offtake by the DISCOMs due to disruptions of COVID-19 pandemic as our business is customer-centric and it requires a lot of human intervention. And that has severely impacted [ gestation of movement ], and lockdowns have impacted movement of the meters also. The overhang of COVID-19 is likely to persist at least for quarter 1 of FY '22 and maybe more. We never know. However, we anticipate that sharp revival is possible in the industry in quarter 2 FY '22. We have recorded a sales of INR 191 crores for Q4 FY '21 as compared to INR 169 crores in Q3. The revenue growth was expected and was subdued because of volume offtake by SEBs, as I stated earlier. Q4 FY '21 EBITDA profit stood at INR 39 crores, up by 32% as compared to INR 30 crores in Q3 FY '21. EBITDA margin improved by almost 300 basis points at 21 -- 20.7% in Q4 FY '21 against 17.7% in Q3 FY '21 on account of high-end meters or smart meters supplied in those particular quarters. Profit before tax grew up 11% to INR 30 crores as compared to INR 28 crores in Q3 FY '21. PAT stood at INR 30 crores, up by almost 67% against INR 18 crores in Q3. The increase in PAT is because of one reversal of excess tax provision which we took quarter 3 of this financial year of INR 10.89 crores. Cash PAT stood at INR 38 crores, recording an increase of 68%. The current order book is INR 931 crores, which gives healthy visibility of growth for next at least 2 to 3 quarters. With end clients increasingly requesting for end-to-end solutions, we believe the share of revenue from Facility Management Services, which is recurring in nature, will grow to about 8% to 10% of our total revenue in foreseeable future. So we think that coming time or coming quarters, [ things will be better ], and we will be doing better in the coming time. I now open the line for question and answer.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Ashok Jain ] from Ayush Capital.

My first question, sir, is the second COVID wave started in India in the month of April of 2021. However, we lost sales from the middle of February month itself of 2021. Could you finally please explain how and why this happened? And sir, my other question is the COVID pandemic has proved that we have high geographical risk with all major sales of our company coming from India, that is the domestic market. Now with EESL looking at Africa and Middle East, are we open for export focus in the immediate near term to mitigate our geographical risk? That's all from my side, sir. I eagerly await your answers to these questions.

I will repeat the questions. So your first question is why our sales went slow since February?

Yes. Because, sir, the second COVID wave started in April, right? But we started losing sales right from the middle of February this year, so why this happened. Like could you please elucidate on this?

The feeling of second wave started in Feb itself because most electricity boards, their inspections were getting delayed. Whether you talk to electricity boards from MSEDCL, where we're doing a lot of business or from Tamil Nadu, even from Rajasthan, there was a clear visibility that inspections are getting delayed significantly, which was delaying the sales and which -- so their only view was officers are not ready to come to the factory for the inspection. And unless the inspection is done, we cannot restart the metering. Secondly, most of the electricity boards, by the time they started picking up the installation, it again started going down from the month of February itself. So the general public feeling is the pandemic wave started hitting from the month of April, but to the B2G business, it surely started impacting mainly electricity boards from the month of February itself. That was the only reason of slow sales, and absolutely nothing else has contributed to it.

And I would like to add that that's why our FD was very high at the end of the quarter. We were producing in the anticipation that the inspection will happen and we will be able to dispatch all the meters to the DISCOMs. But unfortunately, because the inspections have not happened and we could not get the dispatch advices from them, so our FD was also very high at the end of the year -- or the end of the quarter.

And regarding your second question, EESL in Africa, Genus is already into international market. If you see our '19/'20 balance sheet, we did almost 3 figures of exports. Last year, exports went down. Hello?

Okay. Yes, yes. Yes, sir. Listening, sir.

Last year exports went down significantly because of the pandemic. And as on date also, we have an order book of INR 55 crores in the exports division.

Sir, but do we -- right now, with the domestic market being so weak, do we plan to increase -- like really, really focus hard on the export market so at least our total sales won't taper as...

As a company, we have been focusing on export market on last 5 years. The business we are into, this smart metering, it has its own gestation for any country to open up. So the hard work that has happened in the last 4, 5 years is surely showing results in the near future. It's not that because of the pandemic we are focusing on the international market, which we are very serious on the international market and especially in Southeast Asia, Middle East and in African continent. We have been doing a fairly good amount of work. Last year was slow, but you will see a lot of improvement in the near future.

And secondly, I would like to add that by EESL entering will give -- also give a big boost to the company as now we will have 2 options to participate. We can -- where the payment terms are direct, LC payments or where we don't have to do OpEx and all, there we can participate directly. And where there are OpEx and there are -- other conditions are there, we can participate through EESL. So no doubt EESL entering these markets will give a big boost to the company. And we are...

There is no doubt about it. EESL is our major customer. We are their most important supplier. If they grow, we are going to grow with them.

The next question is from the line of [ Suraj Nawandhar ] from Prithvi Finmart.

Sir, this new scheme which is launched by the government, this reforms-based, results-based (sic) [ reforms-linked, result-based ] scheme, it is -- it sounds very similar to the, I guess, other scheme that government has launched earlier, where the government was not able to achieve whatever they had set as a target. So what gives us confidence that government will now achieve this target this time under this new scheme?

The only -- hello?

Hello, hello.

Yes. So now with the scheme, as we all understand, anything in government takes its own time to get slipped into the distribution better or the -- it's a federal structure, as you all understand. A lot of these things have been slipped into the distribution system now. So whatever we were seeing earlier has been significantly changed, and that includes other distribution companies. And even the central government has learned how to be more forceful in getting the scheme implemented. If you see the current scheme, it is CapEx plus OpEx, where there's a clear -- standard bidding document has been created by National Smart Grid Mission, and same has been part of the scheme. So we have to use all these standard bidding documents. And to get the target has been given, by 2023, we want you to do the DT metering. By 2025, we want you to complete agriculture, and by 2025, we want you to complete prepaid. Earlier, they were also learning and they were making the schemes even not very easily implementable by the distribution companies. At this time, the scheme has been much more practical. Everybody has learned in the last 3 to 4 years. And you see the amount of tenders that have come in just the last 45 to 60 days. It is visible that almost every state is going to implement these schemes in a major, major way in the years to come. And they have nothing to lose. And if they want subsidies from central government, they will have to take these schemes. Plus, if you will see this, since they are, this time, completely bifurcated the states according to the finance companies, 50% are with REC, 50% are with PFC. There's a clear guideline, this is all you have to do. And all these standard bidding documents with the scheme this time has been prepared with the help of the distribution companies. It is not a one-way traffic. It is absolutely a 2-way traffic. There's a lot of work in the last 18 months. As within industry, we are also part of this whole scheme, by obtaining the documents, by working on the. So there is a major difference in what was visible 2 years back and what is visible today from those schemes.

Okay. So how has been the month of May for us?

In terms of?

In terms of dispatches, in terms of the inspection...

It's the lowest cycle in EBITDA. That's easily washed out who will -- when people were not ready to travel even in the month of Feb and March. April and May, almost all the electricity boards were tactically shut down. And they're only preparing -- most of the electricity boards, whatever the work they are doing, they're ensuring the 24/7 supply to the country. And this, I think, is the most important job they are doing currently.

Okay. And once this COVID wave subsides, will you still let...

Imagine -- just to give you the numbers, the amount of hit these people have also said. Only in Rajasthan, we have lost more than 100 field engineers in electricity book. I'm' not talking of positive, I'm talking of -- we have lost more than 100 people.

So once this COVID wave subsides -- I mean we are already peaking behind us and we are like 1, 1.5 lakh cases a day now. So once we start to open up, do you think that this -- the smart metering will pick up at very huge pace or it will, I don't know, gradually pick up its pace?

It will pick up very, very quickly. There's a reason behind it. If you will see the amount of tenders which has come in the last 2, 3 months, they are all getting postponed. They all have to get quoted now because electricity boards now and if -- they are not going to buy conventional meters. Metering connection -- they can't give electricity without the electricity meters. So almost every electricity board across the country have come out with the tenders so that they can decide it very quickly and they can start getting the supplies ASAP. So I'm seeing a lot of that will happen in next 2 to 3 months.

The next question is from the line of [ Dilip Jain ], individual investor.

My questions have already been answered. All the best wishes to you. We understand it's the pandemic that is causing the sales problem. Best wishes. No questions at all.

Thank you.

The next question is from the line of [ Manish Maheshwari ] from [ Ohm Capital Markets ].

This is [ Manish ] here from [ Ohm Capital Markets ]. Sir, I want to understand the smart metering solution and the opportunity therein. By and large, leaving aside pandemic for maybe a quarter or 2, but the -- I mean what's the bigger opportunity that we have over next 2 to 3 years? And sorry, what is the current capacity utilization?

So just to give you an idea, which will give you a fair amount of idea about the size of the opportunity currently. As you'll see in last financial year 2021, there were tenders of INR 4,000 crores which came out. So if you will see historically, if you compare on the conventional meters, generally, the size of the industry was hovering around INR 2,500 crores to INR 3,000 crores. So last year, even if there was a pandemic, the size of the tenders of almost INR 4,000 crores which came out, out of which only INR 1,200 crores could be decided. So currently, we are sitting on live tenders of INR 2,941 crores which are already quoted and which will be decided in the next 2 to 3 months, is what I believe. Plus already tenders worth INR 7,200 crores have been -- which would have been quoted by this month, if pandemic would not have been there. Because of the pandemic, all these tenders will get quoted in next 30 to 45 days. So currently, we are sitting on opportunity currently, on orders -- or tenders which are now more than INR 10,000 crores, which will be decided in the next 3 to 6 months, and we are already sitting on our order book of INR 930 crores. So this gives you an idea of what kind of opportunity we are sitting on.

Basically, I would like to add that from a market size of INR 3,000 crores per year, right now, we are sitting on the tenders worth INR 10,000 crores. So basically, if it would have been a normal market size, this business, all the tenders are almost -- [ put to work ] up to 3 years and Genus is seeing the success ratio always of 25%, 27% market share. Now you can understand the type of business that is to come and the type of volume Genus can do in next coming 2, 3 years, provided we come out of this pandemic or not.

And your second question was regarding the capacity utilization. If you talk of this quarter, it is negligible. Hello?

For last 3 quarters?

Basically, we -- number of meters produced, Jiten, do you have the numbers last financial year, the number of meters we have made?

Last financial year, I don't have that.

We will come with this -- we will come back with this.

But capacity utilization is not even 50, 50...

Last year, it was not even [ 50 crores ].

Yes.

And sir, what is the kind of -- I mean do we already have an order pipeline in place? What is the kind of order -- quantum of order that we are anticipating maybe in, say, a couple of quarters? Because our book-to-bill right now is 1.5x, we are sitting at 1.5.

I could not understand you.

No, even I could not understand.

Sir, what is the kind of order inflow that's effective over next few quarters?

As Jiten clarified to you, that already the company has participated in tenders worth INR 3,000 crores. There are tenders pending of INR 7,200 crores. Right now, total tenders, you can see INR 10,000 crores. And company has a success of 25% to 27% in last -- if you see historically. So basically, we hope that in next 6 to 9 months, these tenders are decided or say, in 1 year, these tenders are decided. So we will be sitting on that order book of for next few years.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Manik Malhotra ], individual investor.

So I basically wanted to know the proportion of sales for the net metering. So net metering is like catering to the solar business. So I just wanted to know how our company is like related to like capitalizing the opportunity of solar in the next few years or quarter. So this is my first question.

Well, just to give you idea on the net metering nowadays. Most of the electricity boards are buying meters without net metering facility in itself. So not exactly specifically, you are -- the meters can be used for the net meters in the solar application also. And net metering opportunity is not very, very large, if you see, in the overall scheme of things, let's say, in Genus. Last year, if you see, we have done business of INR 600 crores. And net meters will be -- out of this INR 600 crores, only meters that are used on net meters will be to the tune on INR 3 to INR 4 crores. So it's not an opportunity which -- as a layman will realize. It's not that we are not making net meters or our meters are not being used for the solar application. Nowadays, the normal meters, what we manufacture or the smart meters are designed in a way that it can be used for the net meters also.

Okay. Okay. So they are designed in such a way that they can like take that opportunity?

Absolutely. So most of the electricity boards are using the net meters within their purchased quantities.

Okay. And any updates on the demerging? In last call, you updated about the demerger. So any update?

No. The same -- the situation is the same already. The proposal is over at SEBI, and we are waiting for their approval.

Okay. Okay. And okay, best wishes to the team, and I know each and every employee of Genus is safe. So thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Dipen Shah, Individual Investor.

I had a couple of questions, maybe a repetition of what was asked earlier. Just wanted to understand the capacity utilization, which was asked earlier. Like to what level of meters or with what quantity of meters can we produce with the existing capacity? Or maybe in terms of revenues, what is the revenue we can reach with the existing capacity, which we have? And the second thing is based on what you said is that if about 10,000 crores of orders are going to be bid out and won in the next 2 quarters. Is it a potential -- or do we have the potential to have an order book of about 2,500 crores from that? That is the second question. And the third question is if you can just let us know what are the major competitors for us in the smart meter space.

So on the capacity utilization, we can comfortably produce 10 million meters. So we will say it can [ end ] our capacity -- capability be. If manufacturing 10 million meters, which gives you a revenue of INR 2,000 to INR 2,500 crores. And this 10 million can be easily announced to 15 million to 20 million, with 6 to 9 months on maximum. But because we have planned -- we have made our plans and actually we -- everything have been invested in a way where Genus can go up to 20 million very comfortably. So that is a higher capacity we have created over the years, capacity and capability. Your second question, the capacity utilization currently is very, very low. As you all know in the last financial year is not even 50% and even this first 2 quarters is very negligible even when tough times are going on. We can pick up the real utilization. Your second question was about INR 10,000 crores that are there in the market, and what is the probability of Genus in these segments. So yes, it is not impossible that Genus has in the order book and that it's difficult to commit an amount that is not available. For a company like Genus, we have an order book of INR 2,000 crores to INR 2,500 crores. Coming out of these tenders is not something which is impossible. It should be achievable. So the order book should be very good in the next 2 to 3 quarters? Your third question was?

The competition, who were the major competition?

Minding the competition. So there are primarily 2, 3 large companies in the [indiscernible] is that around dealers and dealers like Schneider Electric, which has taken over and earlier is in India. So on Schneider, with their section in electric, Secure Meters, HPN sort of net [indiscernible] The other, I would say, great competitors for our industry.

Okay. And if you have any numbers, what will be the market share of Genus vis-a-vis the other 3, 4 competitors, the large ones?

I would say, we must, Genus, domestically, in the range of 25% to 37% that is currently.

The next question is from the line of Amit Shah from K Securities.

Sir, I had a couple of questions. So, first would be, sir, despite lack of operating leverage, our margins were much higher in Q4. So what is the reason behind the same? And secondly, sir, as our execution picks up, the pace in coming quarters, can we expect these EBITDA margins to improve further?

Basically, if you talk about fourth quarter, the margin, and I told in my opening remarks also that sometimes we do a very high meter in some particular quarter. So this particular quarter was mainly -- there were less of conventional meters and more of smart meters and high-end meters. So the EBITDA margin was at a level of 20% or something like that. Otherwise, normally, if you see our EBITDA margin remains at 16%, 17%. And coming -- for the summing time that you asked, that you asked, coming 2 quarters, there really certainly a problem with ongoing quarter and next quarter. There won't be EBITDA levels of 16%, 17%, as guided by us earlier. And if we -- if I recall, in the month of January conference call, I gave a guidance of almost 16%, 17% of the EBITDA margins for the coming year. And there, that time, there was a question that there might be some hiccup because of the raw material prices and all going -- all commodity prices going up will affect Genus margins. And we're all knowing that surely, there will be effect of raw material prices increase on our EBITDA margin by 2%, 3%. But we are very sure that because of ongoing volumes and increase in volumes in coming years as we had a target of around INR 1,200 crores for the financial '22 at that time. And we were thinking that whatever the impact of raw material coming on our margins will be covered by the volumes. But now coming time there, we won't see volume also this first quarter. There will be lesser volumes. Second quarter, also there might be impact of volumes. And secondly, raw material prices even have increased more than January, February itself. From there itself, the commodity prices are suited for almost 40%, 50% again. So first 2 quarters, as our order book is INR 950 crores and the orders are of all price, and there is no escalation to us in our business. So there will be impact of volumes also and there will be an impact of prices, commodity prices also, raw material prices also or bond prices also. So for sure, first quarter, there will be a very lesser EBITDA margins. For second quarter, there will be lesser margin. From third quarter, we hope that, again, the margins will start coming back to the normalcy of 16%, 17% as we hope that the volumes will also increase very well, number one. And number two, new orders, the supplies from the new orders, where we are passing on all raw material prices impact to the customer will start coming for supplies and all. So that will also -- so basically, first 2 quarters, there will be a subdued margin. There will be impact on margins for sure. And from third quarter, we hope that it will be back to the normal. So basically, this is mainly because of the volumes and raw material prices. There is no decrease in prices of meters, and we are able to pass on. Whatever the raw material prices have impacted us, we are able to pass on that to our customers. But because of the old orders and there is low escalation growth, it will certainly affect. And volume is also decreasing. So it will be not -- there will be impact for volume and raw material, both.

Okay. Okay, sir. Got it. Sir, my next question will be, sir, all our business restructuring. Sir, may I know when will the demerger process get over?

I think by end of this financial year, because everything is getting delayed. We are waiting for the SEBI approval since last 3 months or maybe more, but -- and because of this pandemic and all, it is all getting delayed. So once the SEBI approval comes, we go to NCLT. It's a process. So we hopefully see that by end of this financial year, it will be done. Next balance sheet will be without this -- we'll leave merger alone.

Okay. And sir, what is Genus Power gaining from this demerger?

So basically, as I told last time also, we want to become a pure metering company, and this investment is not bringing any value addition to the company. Rather, it is decreasing its ROC ROE. So that will be going out and shareholders of Genus Power won't be losing anything, because they are getting shares of that value of other company. So Genus, here, there will be a benefit, because it will become a pure metering company, and it's -- certainly the management can focus more on that.

Okay. Got it, sir. And can you shed some light on business operations of Genus Prime Infra and the growth plans of that entity?

Right now, I'm not ready with that, because I don't have that number or plan back with me.

Okay. Okay. Fine. Sir, and what was our working capital cycle for FY '21? And what are the receivable days? And will the implementation of pay-as-you-save model lead to substantial improvement in this working capital cycle?

FY '21 payment cycle was very bad because all the city boards were in bad shape because of supplies and all and because of this pandemic and all and our net has been increased drastically. So you cannot measure the company's working capital cycle with that particular year or that financial year '21. There will be certainly improvement in the coming days and with this, the scheme also, there will be improvement in income, in royalty income, certainly.

Sir, and the last question, if I may. So how is our gas metering business panning out? What are the prospects of the gas meter business in FY '22?

Gas business is taking a good shape. So for the interest of the audience, we will see that the domestic market of gas meters is estimated to be around 4.2 crores meters in 2029. This is the outlay government has made. And further, there is an expectation that the 1 crore gas metering connections will be added during this period. So we are expecting around 5 crore gas meters in next 8 to 9 years. So that will make it an industry of around INR 6,500 crores to INR 7,000 crores in the times to come. So this is what our expectation is. So even if it -- you will see what all we have done in the last 6 to 12 months, we have then a supply of 10,500 meters in last financial year, which has given us a growth impact in the market. We have got all the design certification. It takes a lot of time, and it is a very big entry barrier in this industry. So the last 2 years of hard work has given us most of the certification. And one of the key certificates is also expected in the next 2 to 3 months. So I am expecting our gas meter to be substantial from '22, '23.

Okay. And the margins in this meter business, would they be better than smart electricity meters?

I would say almost the same.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Isha Chawla ] from [ RS Capital ].

Sir, just like to pay-as-you-save model in smart metering space that is being introduced by IntelliSmart, that will change dynamics of the industry. Can you explain in detail as to how this model will redefine the industry? And also, have we started getting positive response from discounts on this business model?

Yes. Responding, reacting positively to this pay-as-you-save model, because of the financial strategy that comes. We all know they don't have money to pay upfront with a huge investment shifting into smart meters or prepaid meters. So this model will totally gain momentum, and it is not that this momentum is only from IntelliSmart. IntelliSmart is going to be a leader players into this. But all this, even are we seeing, it's taking a lot of interest and so even companies like Genus. Even we will take some of its projects, whatever our capability would be. So as Genus, we will have 3 business models. We will do -- we will work as an OpEx company, common sense also. We will take end-to-end solution projects where there will be complete CapEx. Then all these companies like IntelliSmart or REC or ITCL, like, shared finance, we will be their solution providers. So definitely, this will see a meter momentum in the times to come and in a very short period of time.

And sir, is this similar quarter also followed by metering industry across other geographies? Or this only in India?

Across the globe, the difference is here, we are using pay-as-you-save model. Already, EESL is doing the same thing. If you will see what EESL is doing currently, it's almost something they have done. But there are some changes in the way we're working, and there, we defined or we positioned themselves with a different way. Already, EESL is doing something like this also. And globally also, if you'll see countries like Australia, in the U.S., most of the countries get this model where somebody is providing the solution. Somebody is financing it. It's more like a solar industry model, where because of a huge CapEx investment, there are people who come up with the CapEx investment.

Okay, sir. That was helpful. And sir, I have one more question. Could you please provide the breakup of our revenue in terms of conventional meters, smart meters and FMS? Also how much revenue was [indiscernible] export business? And similarly, I need some data and if you could also provide some [indiscernible]...

We can't hear you.

Chawla, the audio is breaking from your line.

Sir, can you please [ call ] me? [indiscernible] the breakup of our revenue in terms of conventional meters, smart meter in FMS? Also how much revenue was from export business?

Hello? Hello. Can you hear me?

Yes, sir.

Currently, you're asking of the order book breakup or your...

Breakup [indiscernible] smart meter and FMS.

Yes, but currently, if you'll see, we -- our order book is around INR 930 crores, out of which, INR 534 crores is on smart meter, INR 345 crores is on the conventional meters. And this, out of FMS, out of this INR 930 crores, INR 151 crores is from the SMEs, so which will be realized for a period of 5 years.

[indiscernible] how much [indiscernible]...

Sorry, gentlemen. Chawla's line is breaking up. Ms. Chawla, the audio is breaking from your line.

Am I audible now?

Ma'am, the audio is still breaking. I would request you if you'd rejoin the question queue please. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Amish Kanani from JM Financial Services.

Sir, I wanted to understand, given the criteria conditions, at least in the COVID year that we see. What is our strategy to kind of bid vis-a-vis what kind of state SEBs are we selecting? Do we keep their ratings in mind? Our track record of withe getting collections from them is what, a key parameter in terms of our relations with them? Was it, say, a state rating where states are coming into the picture and supporting the SEB? So how do we go about doing it? Because a large part of our returns is based on working capital investment that we make from these orders. So can you give us some sense of how are we better? And despite that, how do we get this market share of 25% in these categories?

What you are asking strategically selective commerce.

Yes, in terms of what kind of...

Because of their financial burden.

Yes. What kind of state SEB do we kind of...

Just to give you an idea on this, we set, except Gujarat, in my, let's say, 2 decades of experience in the distribution business. I won't say except the state of Gujarat, I'm not seeing a single utility, which is able to maintain their rating ever. So if in between companies, we start ranking a company and then accordingly try to quote them, it will never work.

Yes, sir, exactly. So I want to understand how the...

So let me -- while we don't get into that category where we are trying to select a customer unless somebody is doing very badly. Like you see, sometimes they do very badly, so you do change your strategy of quoting to them. Otherwise, generally, it is very -- nationwide, it is strength to strength, more on the certification in the current situation of the SEB.

Okay. So you're saying effectively, we -- in the long run, we get the money, so?

In the long run, we get the money, but we have never -- yes, because we have a lot of intelligence about the electricity board. So mind that we are making the quotation, we generally take into the consideration, give our kind of terms they do ask. I told you, except Gujarat, I'm not seeing a single distribution normally lasts 15 years, who can be, like, maintaining their rating.

Yes, sir. Okay. So sir, buying 1 or 2 which you avoid, you would not worry too much and will keep the overall payment so that cycle in mind while quoting so that we get a ROCE of our design level, right?

Yes.

Okay. And sir, if you can just, in that context, give us, what are our, say, write-offs of bad debts over, say, last 3 to 5 years in percentage? Do we have some number, provisions and write-offs as a percentage of receivable, and we need to worry?

See, [ we don't have any ] write-offs. We don't have any bad debt in -- not even last 3, 4 years, in many years, we do. And secondly, as a policy of the company, we keep 0.5% of our sales as provision for all these things. But that remains in the provision and there is no write-offs or anything for that.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Suraj Nawandhar from [indiscernible].

So just wanted to get the clarity on the bidding process. Do you supply the meters with DISCOMs? Or do you supply meters with the IntelliSmart infrastructure company?

We supply to both of them. We supply to DISCOMs also, and we supply to IntelliSmart also.

Smart meter, if you mean to say?

Yes. Smart meters and any kind of meter.

Okay. So if DISCOMs are okay on their own to buy them, so what was the point of creating that IntelliSmart infrastructure JV and everything?

We market there, facilitate there, where they take projects and then they buy meters from companies like us in this comps, come out with a tender. For them Intelli- is also a vendor and Genus is also a vendor.

Okay. So out of the total tenders that are realized, how much of those are floated by IntelliSmart? And how much of them are floated by DISCOMs directly? If you can give a percentage.

IntelliSmart is not floated as segment tender. IntelliSmart is an execution company [ of the year ]. So whatever are floated are floated by EESL.

Okay. So how much percentage is still owned by EESL as against DISCOMs.

So they do tally up with the DISCOMs. They take PO from them. And then there's no tenders to buy meters of some people like us.

Did you say how much...

Out of 10,000 is with -- will end up with EESL and how much is -- that is the question. [indiscernible] 10,000 currently, EESL is only 1 tender of 25 smart meter, so we're like 700 crores.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I wish you all to remain safe and healthy. Thanks a lot, and we assure you that company will be doing good in coming times and will come out of these all [ financially sound ]. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Thank you, everyone. Be safe. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.