Gevo, Inc. (GEVO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
October 17, 2024
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Unknown Attendee
attendeeHello, and good morning, everyone. My name is Peter Gastreich, and I'm a Senior Energy Transition and Sustainability Analyst here at Water Tower Research. Today, I am very pleased to welcome the management team from Gevo, who are here to take us through a major landmark announcement from the company. As a reminder, this is an open access forum for all investors. It is being recorded as well. You'll be able to access this event using the same link for the original registration should you choose to pass it along to someone. I'd also encourage you to look at our website for disclosures and other research on Gevo as well as other companies in the climate tech and sustainable investing sector. You can find that at www.watertowerresearch.com. Now I am very delighted to introduce the Gevo management team, including Gevo's CEO and Director; Dr. Patrick Gruber; President and COO, Dr. Chris Ryan; CFO, Lynn Smull; VP of Finance, Leke Agiri; VP of Finance and Strategy, Dr. Eric Frey. In terms of our format for today, the team at Gevo will take us through a short presentation. We'll follow this with a Q&A session that will be open to analysts and investors. Now with that, I'd like to turn the call over to Eric.
Eric Frey
executiveGood morning, and welcome to the special call regarding our Net-Zero 1 Sustainable Aviation Fuel project. I'm Eric Frey, Vice President of Finance and Strategy at Gevo and Chief Financial Officer of Verity, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Gevo. With me today are Gevo's CEO, Dr. Patrick Gruber; our CFO, Lynn Smull; our President and COO, Dr. Chris Ryan; and our Vice President of Finance, Leke Agiri. Before we get started, please be advised that our remarks today contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to be materially different from those currently anticipated. Those statements include projections about the closing of the financing, any effects on Gevo's financials from the financing, and any other statements that are not of historical facts. We disclaim any obligation to update these forward-looking statements. In addition, we may provide certain non-GAAP financial information on this call. The relevant definitions are included in the slides being presented. And now, I'll turn it over to Lynn. Lynn?
Lynn Smull
executiveThanks, Eric. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. It's our pleasure to announce a significant milestone in Gevo's journey. We've obtained a conditional commitment from the DOE for a loan for the construction of our Net-Zero 1 plant to be located at Lake Preston, South Dakota. It's been a long road to get through the process to this point, and we are pleased with the result. This project marks a major milestone not only for Gevo, but for the entire sustainable aviation fuel industry. We want to thank the U.S. Department of Energy for working with us over the last 3 years to onboard and diligence the NZ1 project and Gevo and for ultimately arriving at its formal conditional commitment of the $1.63 billion project loan guarantee with the Federal Finance Bank being the project's direct lender. This loan is the cornerstone of our financing strategy and a critical step to making the project a reality. Notably, it's the first large-scale alcohol-to-jet project to receive a DOE loan commitment. This illustrates the substantial progress we've made on derisking the project to nonrecourse debt standards. This also serves to focus potential project-level equity investors on the project's merits and attributes, thereby, we believe significantly reducing execution risk and securing project level equity. I'd reiterate that we expect third-party project equity will constitute most of NZ1's project-level equity stack. Gevo does not expect to be required to inject any additional capital in NZ1 at financial close beyond the development capital we will have already invested at that time. In fact, we'd expect our development capital reimbursement at close will be greater than the capital we will leave in as project equity alongside third-party investors, which could result in some cash coming back to Gevo to be recycled into other developments that we have. I'll add for clarity that we define financial close as the point in time at which all debt and equity capital necessary to construct and commission the project is fully committed and available to draw for construction period expenses pursuant to the relevant financing documents. This is a huge step forward for us, and we are excited to move towards NZ1's financial close and to commence the project's construction. Now I'll turn this over to Pat.
Patrick Gruber
executiveThanks, Lynn. I'm going to step back for just a second and just summarize a little bit about how we got to where we're at. We realized long ago that to eliminate the life cycle footprint of hydrocarbon fuels and then achieving a net zero life cycle footprint or even a carbon-negative footprint, we would need to use renewable carbon and renewable energy. We want 100% abatement of greenhouse gases from jet fuel. That means the product would have a carbon index score, or CI, of a net zero measured across the whole life cycle. We knew that photosynthesis was the most energetically favored source of carbon with plants able to capture not just the carbon from carbon oxide, the CO2, but also you get the electrons and the hydrogen needed for making a hydrocarbon fuel like jet fuel. Energy is certainly used during the production, but we knew that if we use green energy, then we could get to a net zero footprint. We also became aware and understood that by capturing -- sequestering more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that we needed for the fuel, we could get to carbon-negative fuels, as measured across the whole life cycle. The left side of this slide shows the simple concept, replace the carbon source, use renewable energy and you could achieve a net zero. We developed our plant design using guidance derived from Argonne National Lab GREET model from the very beginning. It's the gold standard for measuring CI and carbon abatement, but we actually use that information along the way as we design our overall plant. On the right side of this slide is a graphic of the whole business system. In measuring the amount of carbon abatement, one really must look at the complete life cycle of the product from beginning to all the way to the end state of the product and back. All right. We're sending renewable carbon, check; green energy for the process, check. But we also had opportunities to capture more biogenic carbon and sequester it. Photosynthesis makes plant sugars, we use the sugars in the fermentation. Our version to produce ethanol has been optimized for maximum carbon abatement. The ethanol process itself releases biogenic carbon dioxide. We can capture that CO2, and that helps to drive the CI score even negative. We also have the opportunity to work with farmers to capture and sequester carbon in the soil. We see a lot of potential for this in the future even if we don't get credit for it today. We came up with a proprietary plant design that incorporates proven world-scale unit operations and technology, operations that have been proven in the petrochemical world, and integrated those who the most modern ethanol plant design ever delivered. What is interesting to note is that a net zero SAF produced at a plant like we designed is actually expected to be massively carbon negative as it is produced at our plant. As that fuel sits there in a tank or a railcar at the plant, it would be about a minus 90 carbon score sitting in the tank is a jet fuel made with renewal carbon holding the energy of the sun literally, it is sequestered, concentrated carbon. It's just sitting there. Now when it's burned as a fuel, it releases a huge amount of energy to power a jet engine, and it also then releases CO2. And as it's burns as a fuel, the CI score rises back up to be zero. Slide 5 shows the reasons why we get so excited about our integrated approach for ATJ. What you see in this chart is a result of a study that was done for us by a global consulting firm with the input from a variety of others showing the different cost reduction for different routes produced renewable resource-based jet fuel. The gray bars on this chart represent the cash cost of production for the various production routes. You can see that the integrated Net-Zero 1 approach to making alcohol-to-jet delivers the lowest cash cost per gallon for SAF. Its cash cost is actually comparable to petrojet, especially considering the future technology improvements that we can see. Net-Zero 1 leverages the infrastructure and abundance of carbohydrates. Net-Zero 1 is expected to start in a very good cost position and get better. It's worth noting that the Net-Zero 1 approach also abates the most carbon. We can achieve CI scores of zero or even negative. Low cost, combined with large amounts of carbon abatement, that all equates to more value per gallon. Cash cost is incredibly important. Imagine the day that a plant like Net-Zero 1 is paid off. It could then compete head-to-head with petrojet on the same fully depreciated basis, except that NZ1 delivers a jet fuel with a net zero carbon footprint. The green bars on this chart represent the required capital returns and depreciation. HEFA, the SAF made from used cooking oil or vegetable oil has the lowest capital cost, it can leverage existing refineries. HEFA will have a higher cash cost reduction because of the dynamics around feedstock. But overall, that product works in the market from a value standpoint. It's a good product and no surprise that this product has gotten to scale first. For our first Net-Zero 1 plant, capital costs are going to be higher than our subsequent net-zero plants, yet the economics work. Why? More carbon is abated. So the jet fuel, the SAF, is worth more on a gallon basis. We do see opportunities to reduce the capital charges in the future by reducing capital of the projects by how we set up our plant modularization system and our project delivery system. We also see that it's possible for future technology improvements to impact both capital and operating costs. In fact, that's what our ETO technology that we previously announced is all about. This ETO technology is not ready for prime time yet. It will take a few more years, but we do see a route to improve further. I find it amazing that we're already this competitive on a cash-cost basis at the very beginning of this industry. It's important to realize that our jet fuel is a drop in jet fuel. It is a jet fuel that just goes straight to the system. It's going to be mixed with petrojet. And then it goes through all the pipelines and tanks and jet engines that work with on all the jet engines there are, all the planes. Now there is a value of this fuel just simply as a jet fuel. Forget for a moment that it's made for renewables, it's just a jet fuel. It's comparable to petrojet, the commodity, on a value basis, just as a jet fuel. However, by producing it with a net zero production system, we can achieve more carbon payment value, and that increases the value of our product. Customers who are interested in reducing greenhouse gases are interested in abating carbon. To understand value, it is the sum of the jet fuel commodity plus the total carbon abatement value it creates. The market value for a net zero fuel is higher, for example, than say, a SAF, a jet fuel, with a 45 CI score. A 0 CI score is more valuable on a gallon basis. I think our President and Chief Operating Officer, Chris Ryan, has said exactly right that our business system and plant designs are all about creating more potential value by creating more carbon abatement per gallon while continuing to drive the cost of production down. He's right. That's been the philosophy in designing our plants. Let me introduce you to Chris Ryan, our President and Chief Operating Officer. Chris is the Officer at Gevo, with overall responsibility for the net zero projects. I want to congratulate Chris and his team on getting us to this milestone. It takes a disciplined, dedicated approach to get us this far. It's hard work. Chris and his team have been good stewards of all of our development money. It is true that the cost of feed and the development work is significant. In the case of Net-Zero 1, that order of a couple of hundred million dollars. Many companies underestimate the cost and discipline required to deliver projects of this scope. Chris and his team are very experienced, realistic and they deliver. Thank you. Chris?
Christopher Ryan
executiveThanks, Pat. We designed the Net-Zero 1 plant in Lake Preston, South Dakota to be an industry-leading net zero farm field to SAF facility projected to produce 60 million gallons of SAF per year. The plant is also expected to produce about 1.3 billion pounds of protein and animal feed products and about 30 million pounds of corn oil, making it a truly integrated solution for both energy and food. Our plant design incorporates electrified unit operations to reduce natural gas use with zero-carbon wind power. Then we have energy integrated, the ATJ and ethanol production operations to further reduce the gas usage. The end result is a projected total natural gas usage that is less than 25,000 BTUs per gallon of hydrocarbons produced, which is about a 2/3 reduction in the amount of gas one would expect with an ethanol plant and an ATJ plant that are not integrated with the way we have done. The electricity that is needed will be supplied by a direct connected new wind farm. And the hydrogen required in the final production step, which is a much smaller amount of hydrogen than many of the other SAF production technologies will be green hydrogen. When you couple that design with CCS using the biogenic CO2 off the fermentation plus the climate-smart ag practices, you get not only net zero SAF, but you have low carbon protein and corn oil, which enables us to further decarbonize the food sector. This plant design is one we intend to replicate at other sites and for other people. The patent pending plant design and business system is one we intend to license to others to enable growth of the carbohydrate to SAF industry. Slide 8 shows the project cost for Net-Zero 1. The first thing I'd point out is this type of project finance comes with costs driven by the need to reduce risks that investors and debt providers need to see addressed. And this type of risk reduction comes with a cost reflected here. The second thing I'll point out is that there's a capital cost associated with driving down the carbon footprint of the SAF. By spending more on capital associated with the zero carbon SAF, we are saving money as compared to building more gallons of SAF capacity with a higher carbon score. The third thing I'd point out is that this plant scope is for an ag commodity, in this case, corn, to a finished SAF product. That feedstock comes directly from the farm. So if you compare our plant to typical SAF plants, we are further back integrated into the farm field, which allows us to have a lower cost of feedstock and a lower operating cost to produce SAF. That gives us a long-term competitive advantage in the SAF industry since our SAF production cost is arguably the lowest in the industry. This all translates to a project with attractive multiples, which we think equity investors will appreciate. While it's true this Net-Zero 1 facility has a higher capital cost than we would have expected when we first started the engineering work, we're still happy with the end result. Over the past few years, we've seen construction costs come up significantly. Construction labor tightened and EPCs, engineering, procurement and construction companies, moving to reduce their risk and projects which ultimately gets reflected in the project price. We feel good about where we are now that pricing has settled down as has inflation, and we have a road map for improvements in future plants. We're already adjusting our execution approach for future plants to keep these costs down by doing more extensive modularization, which reduces the on-site labor while allowing for testing of the units at the fabrication yards before they're shipped to our site. We have also secured sites that have infrastructure already in place, which reduces overall costs. These are just a couple of the steps in the continuous improvement of our business system. On this Slide 9, I want to acknowledge the partners we've been working with to get us to where we are today and the partners we expect to continue working with through execution. Next, I'll turn it over to Leke, who will walk you through how we plan to finance the project costs.
Unknown Executive
executiveThank you, Chris. We are proud to say that we expect this project will be fully financed by project level financiers. This means that no additional Gevo corporate-level equity issuance will be needed. Instead, the equity we raised and our DOE loan will be project-level financings, which we view as more accretive for shareholders. Let me expand a little bit more on this project-level finances. On the DOE loan, we have worked meticulously with the DOE LPO to carefully structure a strategic debt facility for Net-Zero 1. As mentioned at the start of this call, we have now secured a $1.63 billion conditional commitment for this DOE direct loans facility, of which $1.46 billion is available for disbursements during construction, and interest during construction added an incremental $170 million. This loan is a cornerstone of our financing plan as we believe it significantly reduces the execution risk for raising the rest of the capital needed for Net-Zero 1 to achieve project completion. We currently are in the process of raising additional project-level equity capital for Net-Zero 1 construction from third-party private investors. Leveraging our financial advisers, Guggenheim and Citi, we are structuring Net-Zero 1 to deliver high-teens equity returns and offer some downside protection to our financiers. As the DOE loan is a key enabler of our structured project-level financing plan, achieving this conditional commitment is a major milestone, which is why we are so excited about this announcement. By financial close, we expect Gevo will have contributed approximately $250 million of development equity capital at Net-Zero 1. Of that amount, approximately $210 million has already been spent. Again, Gevo does not expect to inject any additional capital in Net-Zero 1 at financial close beyond the development capital already invested at that time. In summation, we have a strong project level financing plan for the Net-Zero 1 project that now instills confidence in raising project-level equity capital and in contributing long-term value accretion for our shareholders. I will now pass it back to Chris to summarize some additional benefits of Net-Zero 1. Chris?
Christopher Ryan
executiveThanks, Leke. As you can see, the Net-Zero 1 project represents an exciting opportunity, not just for Gevo, but for communities across South Dakota and rural America and of course, for our planet. This is a major step forward for rural development. Net-Zero 1 stands as the largest economic development initiative in South Dakota's history by our estimation, creating over 1,300 indirect jobs during construction and about 100 permanent positions once the plant is operational. We're also supporting rural economies by sourcing 100% of our feedstocks domestically. This will increase domestic energy production, enhance domestic energy resiliency, and promote climate-smart ag practices, which also improve the health of our soils. The combination of economic, environmental and community benefits makes this project a milestone for Gevo and the communities in which we do business. And we're very excited about the path ahead. As we look at the delivery highlights of the Net-Zero 1 project, I want to emphasize the scale and repeatability of this plant. The design we've developed is modular and scalable, which means that once we prove the model at Net-Zero 1, we can replicate it for future projects with greater efficiency and reduced costs. We've also taken significant steps to derisk the project with best-in-class engineering procurement and construction contractors who bring a wealth of experience and reliability. We've built in contingencies and safeguards, such as liquidated damages and cash reserves to ensure we stay on track and manage any unexpected challenges during construction. Our approach here isn't just about building one plant. It's about laying the foundation for an entire industry of net zero carbon fuels plus feed and food. Net-Zero 1 is a template for future projects. And as we refine and expand, we'll be positioned to lead the way in the commercialization of drop-in hydrocarbon fuels with a net zero carbon footprint. What are our next steps? Secure the remaining project level equity, close the project level financing, and then start construction. Back to you, Pat.
Patrick Gruber
executiveThanks, Chris. I want to reiterate the transformative impact of the Net-Zero 1 project. This initiative represents a significant leap forward for sustainable aviation fuel and the broader renewable energy landscape. We are proud to be at the forefront of this important industry, not just for the economic benefits it brings to our communities, but also for its potential to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions and support agriculture innovation. We believe that NZ1 is not just a project, it's a catalyst for change. As we move forward, we are committed to transparency, collaboration with all the stakeholders, including our investors, partners, and the communities we serve. Thank you for your support and confidence in Gevo as we work toward a sustainable future. Back to you, Eric.
Eric Frey
executiveThanks, Pat. This concludes our prepared remarks. A transcript of the call and a copy of the slide presentation will be available on our website at www.gevo.com. Stay tuned for more information in the days to come, including virtual and in-person investor events, which we will also post on our website. And now, we'll take some questions.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thank you very much, Dr. Gruber and team for the presentation. Now we'll move on to the Q&A section of this fireside chat. Just a reminder to analysts and investors, you can post your questions online. You should find the Q&A button at the bottom of the screen. So after you submit, we'll either unmute your mic or just read your questions to management in order to make sure we can get through as many questions as possible today. So while those questions are loading, I'll go ahead and kick things off here. So again, thanks so much for the presentations, and really, congratulations on this major point in Gevo's history. So now that Gevo has this DOE conditional loan guarantee under its belt, are you able to give any guidance on what will be the pathway to an operational net zero facility? So from here, what are the main hurdles to closing, what are the signposts that investors should focus on? And how confident do you feel in terms of executing construction within your time frame?
Patrick Gruber
executiveI think, Chris, I'm going to call upon you. You're leading the whole effort. So you and Leke Agiri can team up on this one.
Christopher Ryan
executiveSure. So the next step is to get through the condition precedents for the loan, which we're working on we're well into and then close on financing, which includes raising the equity, and then we would start construction. And for a plant this size, it takes a few years to build just because of the magnitude of the scope. You're building an ethanol plant and an ATJ plant and all of them, we call it, balance of plant, all the auxiliary pieces. And so, at a high level, that's kind of the path forward. Leke.
Unknown Executive
executiveNo, thanks, Chris. I think you captured it very well. From a financing perspective, we'll work through the documentation and closing process for financings. And obviously, those are prerequisites to commence construction. So well said.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. And just maybe one more question here. And once the Net-Zero 1 site is built, does the site in Lake Preston allow you to do bolt-on projects for further growth? Would you be able to look at further capacity expansions for SAF? Or would there be other low-carbon products you might be looking at, what looks interesting to you there?
Patrick Gruber
executiveWell, I'll answer this first and you guys can jump on if you want to add something to it. So the way we think of this is we think of a business system. So whenever we're looking at something and approaching it, it's not about the SAF per se. Yes, that's driving the economies of scale, driving the scale of a plant, awesome. We need that because that drives costs down. However, when you have a site like this, remember, we're Cargill-trained. We're ADM-trained people, where we've seen how to do these big giant processing facilities, and that's what we're going to have here. And so every time that you can add value somewhere to a stream, we're going to do that over time. And there's lots of opportunities, whether it's on the protein side, adding value to the protein or to the vegetable oil we could produce or you've heard us talk recently about adding the more effort into the chemical space, taking the building blocks that we can take out of our process, divert them a little bit before they go to jet fuel and make them into plastics or other chemicals. That's what that effort is about. And so all of these things come into play, and that's how we have to think of it. And in addition, there's lots of land, there's space. We could put up whole new fermentation plants with other projects if we want. So you think about it as a whole in the system, always about abating carbon, always about maximizing margin and profitability aimed at that site. Chris, add anything?
Christopher Ryan
executiveYes. So by nature, we're a partnering company. We like to partner because we know we can't do everything ourselves. It's all about expanding the size of the pie and then sharing that with partners. So we've had discussions with other companies that are interested in potentially adding their capabilities to the site to make fertilizer, make feed products, chemicals, as Pat said, there's a variety of opportunities there. And so we've got 240 acres. We're using less than half of it for this plant that we're announcing here. And so we've got plenty of room to add additional capabilities.
Patrick Gruber
executiveI want to add one more thing, and we think about our net zero north site up there in North Dakota, we think of it the same way. Lots of room for expansion, lots of things we can bring to bear and make a great business system.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thank you very much. It looks like we have some hands up out there. Maybe we could go ahead and get started. Joe, you want to maybe bring -- let's see, Amit on?
Amit Dayal
analystYes.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeYes. Amit, if you could please repeat your question, you're good to speak.
Amit Dayal
analystCan you hear me?
Unknown Attendee
attendeeYes.
Amit Dayal
analystCongratulations. Pat, it looks like your decision to wait for the DOE loan process indicates some of the pushouts you've been facing in getting all this done. So congratulations.
Patrick Gruber
executiveThank you very much. It's great. It's good. It's a big milestone.
Amit Dayal
analystRight. So with respect to the equity portion of the financing, who are you going to? What kind of investments?
Patrick Gruber
executiveLeke.
Unknown Executive
executiveSure. So I can speak to that. So for these types of projects, like large capital projects, we are targeting a similar universe. So we're talking to infrastructure funds, private equity funds, just private capital markets ideally. And for that type of structuring, you go through the typical due diligence efforts or processes. And for my commentary, we've actually secured our financial advisers for that process, and we're in great shape to be able to execute that process at this time. And of course, the DOE loan land in that process, that is a shot in our arm for us to be able to move that process along in a successful manner.
Patrick Gruber
executiveOne of the things that -- you guys have no appreciation for the amount of diligence that's done by that DOE loan office. They have a tremendous success rate in their history. And I can tell you why, it's because they diligence the h*** out of it and the way they structure the projects to make them so they're derisked. So it is an enormous amount of work. Now that benefits us when we have to go to the equity markets. A lot of the work has been done already.
Amit Dayal
analystAnd then with respect to the feedstock, is there any flexibility on that side? It looks like [ power ] is the primary source, but do you have an optionality…
Patrick Gruber
executiveI'm going to comment broadly, Chris, and I'll let you speak specifically about what the potential is. But, yes, our process, remember, is carbohydrates to alcohol, alcohol into hydrocarbons. That's how -- and generating a huge amount of carbon abatement while we do it. We want to do both those things, and we want to keep driving to the lowest cost systems. Because we use carbohydrates, we go for the -- looking at the -- how -- what's the CI score, sustainability profile of that raw material, that carbohydrate, and what is its cost. Corn is the lowest-cost raw material that we can source in the Midwest. And in other places, it might be different. But in the future, it could change as technologies change around what crops are. Chris, do you want to speak to that?
Christopher Ryan
executiveI didn't completely get the question.
Patrick Gruber
executiveHe's asking about alternative feedstocks other than corn.
Christopher Ryan
executiveYes. So we continually look at feedstocks that either people have developed technology in order to use or it's just feedstocks that you can use today if the farmers would grow them locally. I was visiting a plant outside the U.S. that uses a feedstock that's not commonly grown in South Dakota, could be grown in South Dakota, that has some benefits to the food industry because any time you're looking at feedstocks, you're always looking at, number one, food. So you want to help grow more food, more protein for the world and then use the residue to go make fuels and chemicals, which is what we're doing here at this site. And there's different crops you can grow to give you different food products. So yes, we look at that, we look at cellulosics, people have different cellulose technologies you could potentially bolt onto our plant someday, anything is fair game.
Patrick Gruber
executiveAnd it's worth reminding people that we've done just about every practical carbohydrate source. We've done cane, sugar, molasses. We've done wood sugars. All those things are possible to use in feedstocks. But Chris is right. One of the things to appreciate in a plant like this is it will produce about 3 tons of protein product and feed per ton of jet fuel produced. And so this is now being referred to in the global community as integrated food and energy systems. That's what we're talking about here. That was one where some of the United Nations groups are starting to talk about it that way because it starts to solve a problem, how do you generate lots of protein for feeding the world, but yet solve an energy problem while reducing greenhouse gases and the pollution that goes with it. That's part of the game. So it's an interesting system, how we think about it is whenever we're using land as a source for our raw materials, we're always paying attention to how much protein gets produced. That's incredibly important.
Amit Dayal
analystJust the last one for me. I'm actually…
Unknown Attendee
attendeeAmit, I think we can barely hear you. Can you guys hear, Amit?
Patrick Gruber
executiveNo.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeDo you mind speaking up or moving closer to your speaker, Amit? I apologize.
Amit Dayal
analystCan You hear me now?
Unknown Attendee
attendeeJust barely. It's a little -- you sound a little distant.
Amit Dayal
analystYes, I'm trying to…
Unknown Attendee
attendeeI couldn't hear you, Amit. I mean, we can hear you, but can't quite make out what you're saying.
Amit Dayal
analystAll right…
Patrick Gruber
executiveWhat I suggest is that we either do it in writing on this one or -- we can follow up with Amit later and get it answered. It's for whatever reason, that's that connection's garbled.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeYes, Amit, if you want to put the question in the Q&A chat, we can circle back to you.
Unknown Executive
executiveOkay. Thank you, Amit. So why don't we move on? We've got a hand raise here from Dushyant, who I believe is from Jefferies. Go ahead, please.
Dushyant Ailani
analystGuys, can you hear me?
Unknown Attendee
attendeeYes.
Dushyant Ailani
analystAwesome. Yes. Congrats, Pat, great work team on getting this through. Maybe just a follow-up question. I think this is -- or asked earlier. On the conditional comment, maybe could you talk a little bit more about what some of those conditions are? And then maybe what the timing looks like? Is it going to be by your end or maybe potentially after? And then I have a follow-up.
Patrick Gruber
executiveWell, I'll answer first on a high level. And then if you guys want to add something, you can, Chris, and Leke Agiri. One, there's an election coming. Whenever there's an election, and it's as close as it is, nobody knows exactly what's going on and who has what job. So you can expect that nothing's going to move super fast. That's just a practical reality of life. That means what this is a -- I don't expect to close this year, no. This would be going into next year. It's just a question of how far it goes into next year. And that's something we'll have to see how all the dust settles. The one thing that's great about a conditional commitment is it's a real commitment. It's a contract-signed kind of thing. And so it's real. And so now we just got to go work through it. The most important condition precedent, the one that is going to be, we need to turn up with -- pin down the rest of the equity, this is going to be related to the financing costs and all the other things, but then pinned down the equity players who want to participate and get them absolutely committed. Chris, Leke, do you want to add anything?
Christopher Ryan
executiveLeke, go ahead.
Unknown Executive
executiveThanks. So relating to your question around CPs, the conditions precedent that we have for the DOE financing, obviously, we can't go public with it. It's based on where we are at this time. We got to work through the closing process, but it's very customary. So for example, all your key project documents has to be fully negotiated and signed up, right? So you would expect for this type of project finance. So those are what you're going to see as part of those CPs, they start. And Pat is right. I think directionally, we're going to do our best to accelerate the process to get to financial close. But the reality is we're just going to have to react to engagement with the DOE, and we're not allowed to even comment on the direction or the timing even that might be navigated there. So as we know more and we mature our process, as we've done historically, we'll be forthcoming.
Dushyant Ailani
analystGot it. Thank you, Leke and Pat. And just a follow-up on -- I guess, we're looking for more clarity on 45Z, right? So was that -- I think just for us to understand, was that kind of taken into consideration when the DOE was doing their due diligence? Like, what did they assume because obviously, we don't know what's happening with 45Z yet, right? So did they consider how do they consider that?
Patrick Gruber
executiveI'm going to comment at a super high level because we can't go into details about the details of those kind of economics. But I can tell you this, the guidance of 45B that was put out was might, d*** useful, right? And so when you look at that, it does give credit -- there's a couple of things that are really important. It gives credit for CCS. It gives credit for agricultural practices. And is it perfect? No, but it's heading in the right direction. It will get there eventually in 45Z. It makes sense in what they're doing in that they're requiring companies to prove that they abated carbon in order to get paid for it. We like that approach a lot because that's how our system is designed. Other companies will not like this approach because that's not how they were designed, ours is. So we like it a lot. And so there's going to be some wrangling around. But it is about delivering true value to taxpayers, consumers, the marketplace and then getting credit for it. I like it a lot. That is the trend it's on. That will get -- we've heard about 45Z, it will get done after the election and maybe early next year. It's okay. The precedents and the trend is going away. And I got to tell you, it's going that way worldwide, too. It's interesting. So there's definitely a shift about this, paying for value of carbon abatement. That's the mentality that we're going to see. It's nascent today. It's nascent. It's the beginning. But in the future, that's what we'll see in the marketplace is the value for carbon abatement. You guys want to add anything, my guys?
Christopher Ryan
executiveI would just add that DOE like other debt providers and investors tend to take the more conservative assumptions and most all the variables that we look at.
Patrick Gruber
executiveSo that means that we all recognize wide-eyed and everyone does that 45Z might only go for 3 years. And that's in a time frame for the plant is built, yet, the project is still here and committed.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thank you for the questions. So we'll keep going down here. We've got a few more hands raised, but we've also been trying to consolidate. We've got dozens of questions coming through. We'll do our best to get to them. So for just a question here about debt, a lot of questions about if we can get any color in terms of the interest rate for the DOE loan. Can you share any terms in terms of when this needs to be repaid? Do we have any kind of a credit rating associated with this? Just quite a few questions on the debt terms.
Patrick Gruber
executiveLeke, you don't know the rules of what we can and can't say...
Unknown Executive
executiveNo. Thanks. Unfortunately, I can't go into a tremendous amount of detail around the debt facility versus -- more than what the DOE is actually issued publicly. But what I can assure you is this is going to be a long-term debt facility, and it's competitive, right? I mean the advantage of using -- although the DOE loan is the economic advantage that it presents. So with that said, that's enough sort of bread crumbles to answer that question without getting us into any trouble.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. And just moving over to the similar questions on the equity side. Where are we in terms of the equity financing? What kinds of investors will you be approaching for the equity portion at the project level?
Unknown Executive
executiveYes. So I addressed that earlier in terms of the universe of equity investors that we'll be targeting. Those are going to be private capital investors, so your private equity guys, infrastructure funds. And we're seeing a lot of interest. Our advisers are fully engaged, and we're having interactions with them. We'll be undertaking the due diligence. Pat mentioned, we are going to be leveraging the tremendous amounts of due diligence and work that DOE has already done. So that's going to bode well for us to be able to convert from where we are now to arrive at closing, hopefully, in short order as well.
Patrick Gruber
executiveAnd it's good. When you're an equity firm, you really want to know to get the conditional commitment or not before you get lift too much work. You don't do heavy lifting too far in advance. So now this is like a key trigger point for us to get serious because up to this point, everyone wants to know, you're going to get that conditional commitment or not? That sort of matters. So now we can get on with life. Good.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thanks very much, Pat. Thanks, Leke. So why don't we move on to the hands raised here, and we can take Manav, please?
Manav Gupta
analystHopefully, you can hear me.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeYes.
Manav Gupta
analystOkay. I'll just keep it to one quick one. Can you talk a little bit about the global SAF mandates where you're seeing most traction? How do you see U.S. progressing on down line California? Help us understand what the demand outlook is looking as far as the global SAF mandates are concerned?
Patrick Gruber
executiveSure. Across the world, it's very uneven. There are some mandates in Europe that require SAF. They'll be coming into play and they're going to be implemented in different ways in different countries. The idea is to drive the economics so that SAF can be deployed. I think it's going to get piecemealed in Europe. And the reason is there aren't enough feedstocks available to serve the demand. And so that means there's going to be this high tax burden. So what that means is a European Union being what it is, you're going to see different countries want to do things in a different way that makes sense for themselves and yet try to be coordinated. I was just down at the G20 meeting in Brazil and talking with ministers from around the world. And it is very interesting in that they see it as a problem. Across the world, it's a problem. I can't get there from here with the way that some of the policies have been implemented. And I think that's kind of a general sentiment. They do turn to the U.S., and I would also say Brazil has got its act together and getting it together as to how to implement policy. They look to the U.S. to see how we're doing it here. The U.S. structure of what we're doing for starting a market where it's a combination of RINs, the IRA Bill potentially, the state level like California or Oregon or Washington or Minnesota or Illinois or Mexico, and it's growing on a state level. That's going to dictate where the stuff gets placed. And so I think we're going to see players focus here in the U.S. and be targeting various states. But you're going to see other companies because if they have access to the Europe, it will go to place, for instance, products made from HEFA, it will go there, especially if you're in the Gulf Coast. I think there's another plant starting up down there. It will go there and try to find out what that real number is, what people will pay for it. What I don't think is realistic is that it's some number like they get taxed and if they didn't buy SAF or something, it's some large charge that an airline would have. That means they have to raise prices to customers. Whenever you're raising prices on airlines, that diverts business away. That's a problem. So if there's this real fundamental question, if you're trying to restrict people from flying. And the answer is in Europe, a lot of the NGOs, that is what their objective is. That's not going to work for the rest of the world because they need more air travel. It's a fundamental concept that people should be able to move. So that's the tension that's being implemented. And I think what's going to happen is that the dust is settling. The questions are -- we all know airlines, they don't want to pay more and they don't used to doing long-term contracts. Well, we're breaking that paradigm down and what we're doing and others will, too, but you got to have something real to work on. I think that companies like Neste have done a great job in the past. I think that World Energy, they've been trailblazers with man. And you got the Darling Diamond Green thing starting up. Awesome. Great. We need to develop this marketplace. But I'm telling you, it's all going to be about carbon abatement in the end. The jet fuel is just jet fuel. It's about the carbon abatement. How much did you generate? Who will pay for that value? That's the real business system that has to get developed. So it's a not developed marketplace. It's huge, huge, huge potential, lots of questions. You know what, we like where we're focused on the U.S., though.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thank you very much. So we have a couple of questions here about feedstock for NZ1. What sort of flexibility do you have in terms of the feedstock? Will it be corn? How scalable is something like Net Zero 1 from a feedstock perspective?
Patrick Gruber
executiveChris, you addressed this already, but go ahead and touch on it again quickly on that latter part of the question.
Christopher Ryan
executiveYes. So corn is the feedstock for Net-Zero 1 and it's really -- remember, it's the corn starch that is actually being fermented to the fuel. All the protein and oil and the nutrients, they keep going to the market out of our plants. So you end up making a high-protein product or you make corn oil. Corn is a great feedstock because there's a lot of it. It's stores for a really, really long time. And especially around South Dakota, you can grow it with carbon-negative footprint using the right growing practices, which most of the farmers around there do. So it's a great feedstock. If somebody comes up with a better feedstock or competitive feedstock, great, we would consider it, but this plant was designed to use corn starch. And so for example, if somebody came up with, here's a cellulosic feedstock, great. We need the sugar, that's what actually goes into the process for making fuel. If you look at the U.S. market for corn, you can get -- people ask about, well, what if there's a drought or whatever? There's always enough corn in the U.S. It's a question of how much you have to pay for it. Fortunately, around this site in Lake Preston, it's a very low-cost corn.
Patrick Gruber
executiveAnd what's more is corn production is increasing all around the world. I think the rest of the world is at best, 50% of the yield per acre as the U.S. and is moderating cultural practices to get spread around the world. We can anticipate that more corn will get produced too and -- because they're going to want to do that, because they're going to want the protein locally for animals. So we like -- corn has huge, huge, huge potential. As far as using ethanol to jet process, we had -- part of this -- so we had a global consulting firm, and we asked that question, how much could you do? And the answer is you could supply all the SAF that the U.S. demand requires by using ethanol. That exists already. That's what's possible. Now that didn't address the full economics and the CI scores, but of a physicality of what's possible, that's what it is. It's pretty interesting.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Got it. Why don't we move on here. We've got a question from [ Ed Blumenthal ]. Ed, you can -- why don't we take him live here?
Unknown Attendee
attendeeCan you hear me now?
Unknown Attendee
attendeeYes.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeGood. My question revolves more about politics and the election coming up, if by chance the Republican candidate were to win the election nationally, does that jeopardize this situation with the loan from the Department of Energy?
Patrick Gruber
executiveThe conditional commitment survives administrations.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Good. Thank you.
Patrick Gruber
executiveAnd you know what's interesting is what we're talking about is rural economic development. The actual -- we had a study done by Charles River Associates, just asking the question of, if you implement the IRA Bill 45Z as a tax credit, what's the value of that? Charles River is a well-known, well-respected economic consulting group out of Boston, who does a lot of this policy stuff. And they calculated that would be about, for every dollar of tax credit there, it generates about $6 back to the general economy. It's a big return. And the reason is, is that you get about $170 million per year of regional local money flowing just because of the business systems that occur. You have all the new job creation. You have direct taxes of about $30-plus million a year from that site. You have all kinds of other impacts that come into play. So you're getting something for the money. Now remember what I said about 45Z in the policy of measuring things, proving it, documenting it, reporting it, and making it transparent? Think tax return. Think a tax return. You're going to have to prove that you have. You're going to get audited, you're going to prove what you have and done. That plays to people because it's not a general handout. Nobody wants to do general handouts here. Nobody does that I can find. I don't care what flavor, they don't care. Nobody wants to general handouts. So that's not a politically winning situation, proving that you did something, that's where the world is headed. And that is where it's going to be headed worldwide. That was the topic when I was down at the G20.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thank you very much. I'll just put a question here about the coproducts for Net-Zero 1. So we talk a lot about SAF. But we understand also that at least, by weight, you're producing a lot of byproducts, a lot of animal feed, vegetable oil, and so forth. Is there anything you can do with those byproducts? Because I guess we can kind of think of those byproducts as being low carbon or net zero. Is there anything we can do with a net zero food or feed that we should be thinking about?
Patrick Gruber
executiveYes. So one, they're byproducts, they're co-products. We think of them that way. Cargill training 101, ADM training 101. That stuff is the valuable stuff that helps to drive the volumes and engine and margins in the plant. It's really important. It's not a byproduct. You got to pay attention to it and manage it. That means you have to be all in on delivering a high-quality product. And you know what, yes, there's lots of opportunities to add value to that protein and makeup in increments, you can do that. That is how Cargill [indiscernible] and ADM got big. That is what they did. So for example, we might take -- eventually, we might take a slice out of that and make it into a value-added special product, we could do that. We could take the corn oil that we produce and make it into HEFA, we could do that, or we can make a new chemical product because we're going to have a lot of the unit operations. So there's many things that we could do. Chris, you want to add to this?
Christopher Ryan
executiveNo, I think you did that well. I would just add that there's a lot of companies in the world that are already doing some higher value feed products using our co-products, not our co-products, but co-products similar to ours. And so it's not a matter of us developing new products. It's a matter of us partnering with the people that are already doing it and get into the market. So a lot of opportunities.
Patrick Gruber
executiveI will point out that this is one of these areas where people are looking at the economics for something like SAF made from corn. A lot of folk get it wrong because they just try to do it to the corn price. That's not how it works. It's net corn price. The net carbohydrate cost that matters. It's carbohydrates of the feedstock. We sell off all the rest. And the more value we can create from that, the less the carbohydrate cost that goes into our process. This is the basics of how this business system works. This is why you kind of got to be able to span agriculture, commodities, agricultural processing, and now into chemical and chemical processing and fuels. That's why you haven't seen lots of companies doing this. We happen to have been trained that way given our experience and histories. So we get this. But this is one of the special things that a company like Gevo brings. We reach across that whole business system, which allows us then to think about how do we maximize that carbon abatement.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thank you very much. I won't forget that. These are co-products.
Patrick Gruber
executiveYes, please.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeAbsolutely. So just a question -- a few questions coming in about how investors and analysts should be thinking about your financial condition in 2025. A lot of different moving parts right now. How should we be thinking that in terms of cash flow and balance sheet?
Patrick Gruber
executiveYes, sure. So our balance sheet is strong. Everyone knows that we're working to close that deal up at Red Trail. Red Trail is a profitable business. So that's going to help us on EBITDA up there. We also -- our LNG business has been doing well. It's been expanding. We're at 400,000-plus million BTUs per year of capacity and it's increasing. We expect to get the California Pathway approved. We know that they're working on it. We can see that they're working on it. It's going through their process, sometimes first or second quarter, something like that, we'll get it. We don't control that timeline. That will help that profitability. And then there'll be the opportunities to sell the tax credits that go with these things. And when you put all of this together, R&D plus Red Trail plus we have our zero chem fuels business developing, selling some of these incremental racing fuel products and things, they're all going to contribute. And so it's interesting because we have publicly stated already that we believe we can be profitable at the EBITDA level in 2025. And that's pretty fundamental, if you ask me. And so you're going to have to look for guidance folks from us and probably it will be in the January business update. In that time frame, we can get a better color to it after we've closed the Red Trail deal. We're going to be in pretty darn good financial shape. For a developer, think about this, where we could be a profitable company as a developer in 2025. We got to have more -- we got to complete things and move on with it. But, gosh, that's pretty exciting for me. But we can't call out guidance yet, but that's the direction of what we think is possible and what's interesting. We're one of the better finance developers that's out here in terms of companies like us in this space. So we feel pretty good about where we're at, actually. Lynn, do you want to comment on this? You're the CFO, man, tell us about this.
Lynn Smull
executiveYes. We pay very close attention to liquidity, our balance sheet, cash and our uses of cash over time. And it's looking very good for our plans for 2025 and the cash flow generation forecast. There are some large chunk plays that could happen with respect to cash flow coming back from close of Net-Zero 1. It's difficult to provide any precision around that. Hopefully, in January, we can say more, but we're excited about the turning point we're at.
Patrick Gruber
executiveYes, for us, we got to close that Red Trail deal. It's going along well. That is a great site, by the way. It's a great operating ethanol plant with a CCS site right there. Awesome. We're going to want that in our overall business system. And it also -- there's possibilities that we, as Gevo, we're selling carbon abatement. We're selling carbon reduction, right? And I mentioned it's a nascent market. We, as a business, have Verity, Verity carbon solutions. Verity is a business dedicated to capturing value from carbon abatement and monetizing it. That's their focus in life. You do that through -- one way is through documenting what's done on the agricultural front. Another way is through how plants operate. Another one is going to be how this works now that we have carbon sequestration. So all of that comes into play in how we view the future 2025 and beyond. All of it does. It's going to matter. So it's a different game to play. But remember for us, Gevo is more like an equity company, a technology company, an investment company. We also will have to manage operations, we'll have plants that we own. We'll have other ones that are joint ventures like Net-Zero 1.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. I got a couple of questions here, switching gears about Luverne facility in Minnesota. Gevo received a $17 million grant recently. How should we be thinking about what's happening with Luverne? And when might that facility come back online? What is the projected profitability?
Patrick Gruber
executiveRight now, we use that site as a development facility, so we run it as needed. We'll do certain things out there. But a lot of times, we've been using it for training people, downstream, customers of airlines. So we've had over 200 of those airline customers. People who are beyond the airlines, big companies beyond the airlines come up to Luverne, we teach them how things work. We take them off the farms, and we show them about how do you generate the zero carbon footprint or negative, including Climate Smart Agriculture. And I got to tell you, it's eye-opening and life changing for these folks. Luverne -- that grant we have for Luverne, we've been working with the FAA to figure out our latitude on how we use it best. So I don't know what the firm plans are for Luverne. There are several things we can do there. It may be that we can do it somewhere else, too. So it's about -- they want to see us make some jet fuel from alcohol, advancing the technologies. We may do it Luverne, we may do it somewhere else. We're working through it about what's possible. And for Luverne, it is a small plant -- a small ethanol plant. And as such, it will always be never very profitable from an ethanol-only standpoint. So it's a question of what else do we put around it? Is it practical? How much money do we spend on it? And we have to also view that in light of we're going to have Red Trail shortly. So the answer is, I don't know yet. We're working on it.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Great. Thank you. So we have quite a few -- there's a question I can try to see if I can put a few of these together. But I think, ultimately, you've really had quite a series of big announcements over the last couple of months. You've had the patent issued on your ETO technology. You've had an acquisition to grow the Verity carbon tracking business. Obviously, the acquisition of Red Trail, and that brings in low-carbon ethanol and CCS assets. So many things. How should our listeners and investors think about how you see these parts fitting together and what will be the way forward with these assets from here?
Patrick Gruber
executiveYes. So the common thread throughout is carbon abatement. It even says on the first slide, I think it says a carbon abatement company. We're a carbon abatement company. We think that way. It's about the marketplace that we're developing is all about capturing the amount of carbon that's abated and then monetizing it. You see that in Verity. Verity Carbon Solutions, Verity Tracking. I mentioned that just a minute ago. RNG. The reason we have an RNG business is because we were aware long, long ago that if we want to have a net zero plant anywhere, we got to do something about fossil-based natural gas footprint. That's a problem. That's why we invested in an RNG plant, and that's why we have one. I thought for sure, we were going to have to use that for our Net-Zero 1 plant. It turns out, I was wrong. Chris and his team did a great job of designing a plant that captures energy inside the plant, reuses it much better than -- it's much better than having to move biogas up there. So great. That allows us to sell it into California. Or we can use it in the future for one of our other facilities as we develop them, who might have a more difficult time on energy. So that's how we view that. It's a tool to abate more carbon. That's how we view RNG. We're going to monetize it in the near term from the transportation sector in California because, hey, that's practical. So that's how we view it. We'll want to grow that because we do see it as a potential in the future. When you look at the jet fuel business, carbon abatement. Specialty chemicals, carbon abatement. Specialty chemicals one is interesting because if we're making durable goods plus ingredients that go into durable goods, that's like sequestering, man. It's like it doesn't burn. When you burn something it releases CO2. When you're putting into an application that doesn't release CO2, that's a sequestering. It's actually a carbon-negative product sitting there. That's pretty interesting for people. So it's always -- the threat is always about carbon abatement in these systems that use based on a carbohydrate or agriculture route through making a finished product, but it's the system around it. That's how people should think of us. You see us, as I mentioned, we're developers, no question. We are plant operators. Yes, we'll do that. These projects as for net zero, like the net-zero big SAF plants, those will always be done in some kind of joint venture basis with equity firms because of the capital needs required. So we can participate, sponsor them, help and grow with them, and license too. So it's a variety of those types of things. But to think of us as build, own, operate all the time, every day, no, that's not what we are. That's the wrong paradigm. We own technology. We own proprietary technology. We're going to use our proprietary technology to create leverage in the marketplace.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Great. Thank you very much. We are starting to run out of time here. But I'd like to put it back to Dr. Gruber if you have any final closing remarks. I also want to thank everybody for joining us today.
Patrick Gruber
executiveYes. Thank you all for joining us. It is an exciting time. We have had a lot of these big announcements. We're on the right track. The world is going our way at the moment. I really like that a lot. I want to see it continue. I appreciate the support that you all bring to us and have -- it's been painful, I know, as you watch our stock price dip down in the past and now has recovered. Thank goodness. And we are on to it. We have a system that will work, fundamentally important point, and it's going to work economically at scale. And I think it addresses a really fundamental level that needs broadly in the marketplace from farmers, helps them make more money, to showing how people at plants, they can make money, to showing how there's an actual true benefit to society at large and to consumers, in particular, into taxpayers in general. And we can deliver a product that for airlines isn't the realm of affordable. That's pretty fundamental for driving this business system. We're on to it here. It's going to be fun. And I think it can change -- what we're doing can change the world. Yes, it's going to take time. It takes a lot of work. We got a lot in front of us. But by gosh, we can get it done.
Unknown Attendee
attendeeOkay. Thanks very much, Pat, and to the team at Gevo. I just want to remind everybody that you can access this online as well as other fireside chats and research on Gevo at www.watertowerresearch.com. As a reminder, the views expressed in this fireside chat may not necessarily reflect the views of Water Tower Research and are provided for informational purposes only. This fireside chat may not be distributed or reproduced without the written consent of Water Tower Research and should not be considered research recommendations. WTR is an IR firm, not a licensed broker, broker-dealer, market maker, investment banker, underwriter or investment adviser. Additional disclaimers can be found at our website at www.watertowerresearch.com. So thank you again to the team at Gevo. I know I speak for all in the investment community that we look forward to following developments at your company very closely. Thank you, and have a great day.
Patrick Gruber
executiveThank you.
Unknown Executive
executiveThank you.
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