GHCL Limited (GHCL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the conference call of GHCL hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services. We have with us today Mr. R.S. Jalan, MD; and Mr. Raman Chopra, CFO and Executive Director of Finance. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rohit Sinha of Emkay Global. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good evening, everyone. I would like to welcome the management and thank them for giving us this opportunity. I would now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Over to you, gentlemen.

Thank you, Rohit. Welcome, friends, to our today's investor call. I'm joined by Raman, our CFO, with Sunil and Abhishek from finance team. We all know that the world is going through a challenging time, and I guess that the current situation improves quickly across the global leading to the restoration of an environment of normalcy and growth. The company has completed the buyback in a record time of 1 month entailing an outlay of INR 70 crores. In addition to this, the Board has recently concluded -- Board Meeting has approved an interim dividend of INR 3 per share with a total outlay of INR 334 crores. This has been made possible due to sound business performance and strong operating cash flows. Further, in order to unlock the intrinsic value of our shareholders, the Board has approved for a scheme of demerger wherein both chemical and textile business has been split into separate entities. GHCL shares will be allotted, both of which will be listed on the stock exchange upon NCLT approval. The shareholders of GHCL will be allotted shares in the new company in the swap ratio of 1:1, 1 share of INR 2 each for every share of INR 10 held in the GHCL. The demerger is expected to facilitate focused growth, concentrated approach, business synergies and increased operational and customer focus for respective business verticals apart from exploring independent business opportunity with efficient capital allocation and attract strategic partners, lenders and other stakeholders. The entire process is likely to complete in about 12 to 15 months. On the business front, the recent coronavirus outbreak has resulted in not just health emergency across the world, but is also raising concern of global economic slowdown, impacting various businesses. Though it is difficult to predict how this will impact the businesses going forward, however, currently, there is no major impact on each of our business segments. Thank you. Rohit?

Rohit, are you there?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

You can open now for question-answer, please.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Ajay Sharma from Cycas Investment Advisors.

Now for the last 1, 2 years, the question of spinning off the textile division has always come up on these con calls and you've said that the best time to do it would be when the textile business is sort of self-sufficient and can stand by itself. So now that the decision has been made to spin it off, does it mean that the future outlook of the textile division is good?

At this point, I would say that because of the investors' concern and the business opportunity which I see, I thought that this is the right time of looking at these 2 business separately. And while separating these 2 business, we are making sure that the outlook of the textile business is healthy. The opportunity we cite in this business going forward, tremendous opportunity I see in the textile business as well.

Okay, okay. I understand. And my last question, in light of the drop in the stock price these last few days, has there been any discussion to continue on with the buyback? Because the company now is trading at just 3, 4x earnings. And that seems like one of the best investments that the company itself can make, right?

See, buyback has certain provisions under which the company cannot buy back. Between 1 buyback to another buyback, there has to be a gap of 12 months. The first buyback, we have already completed on end of February. Any further buyback under the provision of The Companies Act and the SEBI regulation, we cannot have within 1 year. Of course, the opportunity is there, but legally, we cannot do that right now.

The next question is from the line of [ Suresh Kapur from Kapur Company ].

Sir, first question is regarding soda ash business. Sir, I was studying about this -- Ciner, which is one of the global leaders, its share price is also moving towards southward, sir. So is there any global trend, if you compare our peers, there is Tata Chemicals' share price and your share price as well as the global leader, Ciner, C-I-N-E-R; the share price is in a southward journey. Can you throw some light on the global soda ash business?

See, if you look at our outlook on the soda ash in the last call which we had, we have given you a detailed outlook of soda ash, how globally the soda ash is doing and how the Indian soda ash is doing. And that stand of this outlook remains as it is today also. There's no major significant change between the outlook which we have said in the last call versus now. And just to repeat what we said in the last call, in India, today, there is a oversupply situation because of the 2 reasons: one, a new player has entered; second, there is a demand slowdown was also noticed; and the third, that even the imports which is coming from outside India has also gone up. So therefore, there is an oversupply situation. And under that oversupply situation, we have already -- price has already moved down. And this -- in our last call, I have said, that there is another possibility of a 3% price down. That has happened. However, at this point of time, I don't see any further drop in the soda ash prices going forward. So I would say that the stability of the prices can be visible now.

Okay. Sir, profitability [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] still will be more than 20% of our profitability will be higher than the last year, number one. Number two, going forward, like I said in the last call, our margin in the soda ash business will be in the range of around 28%. And that margin -- we have still maintained that the margin will maintain.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] This will definitely give us a lot of opportunity on both the businesses. This will give an opportunity of looking at some related products into both the businesses. And a lot of potential of many other things will happen because then, you will be able to bring expertise of a particular business. You'll also be able to bring the professionals in those areas of expertise. You can look at the opportunity of some new -- of course, I'm not talking of unrelated areas -- in those areas, specialty chemical could be also one of the area of this thing. And just to conclude about your sodium bicarbonate, sodium bicarbonate definitely has a big potential. However, as I said...

[Foreign Language]

Yes, one of the customer has tried on sodium bicarbonate. And they are doing that at their site, and we definitely see a good opportunity in this business going forward. And once that happens -- once customers, which is a very large customers, the moment he kind of stabilizes his uses, then other customers will also follow -- will come into the uses. And that will bring a new opportunity into the sodium bicarbonate. And we are fully geared to handle that situation.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Andrey Purushottam from Cogito Securities.

Yes. Mr. Jalan, I didn't quite catch as to how many shares of the soda ash business and how many shares of the textiles business will the existing shareholders get? And could you explain the rationale for this ratio? That was my first question. And my second question was, basically, are you contemplating any top management changes, to go in with your earlier statement of saying that you may want to marry expertise to different sides of the business. So can we see changes at the top level at either your textiles or your soda ash business?

Let me answer to your first questions that the existing company, which is the GHCL Limited, remains in existence. And therefore, the shareholders of this company will remain as the shareholders of that company. In addition to this, the new company, which will be formed for the demerger of the textile business, will pass on to the new company. And from that company, every shareholders for every 1 share of GHCL, the old company, they will get the equal amount of shares in the new company. However, the value of that share will be INR 2. That means a shareholder who has 1,000 shares in the today's existing company will get 1,000 shares of the new company as well. That means, he will have 2 shares, 1,000 shares of existing companies, 1,000 shares of the new company. And that value of that -- or the face value of that share of textile company...

New...

New company will be INR 2.

Okay. And what was the logic for this ratio?

Logic is that we are giving equal number of shares for both the companies. However -- [ be it as a ] demerger. However, the value we are keeping INR 2, to keep the shareholder -- the share capital of the new company at a lower level, so that the serviceability and textile will be separately -- and therefore, the equity of that company will be roughly around INR 20 crores.

How much?

INR 20 crores. Today, approximately -- I'm just giving you the approximate number. The total capital of today is around INR 95 crores.

Right. Right.

New company, a shareholder will be getting an equal amount of shares as in the existing company. And the value of that will be INR 2. The capital of that new company will be around INR 19.5 crores.

Right. Okay. Got it. Got it.

The second question which you raised about the top management. See, depending upon the needs of the business, it will be too early to talk about that. But surely, this will definitely help the management of the new company as well as the existing company, to look at the expertise and, if required, to hire those expertise. And if that is required, like we can have a focus group of Board members also into the new company, which can be expert in those areas. That can also be done. This time we can have the people into the Board of textile company, which are textile experts, whereas in the soda ash, or the chemical business, the people who are expert in the chemicals business will be on the Board. So that way we'll try to bring the expertise in the form of the Board, in terms of the management, in terms of the growth opportunities.

The next question is from the line of Dikshit Mittal from Subhkam Ventures.

Sir, my question is on this demerger. Like, will there be any investment from parent company into the textile company? And how much will be the debt that will go out post this demerger?

See, two things; one is that the separation will happen on the [ way to the ] separation. All the assets and liabilities of the textile business will move to the new company. There'll be no fresh investment by the chemical business to the new company because these are the 2 separate companies listed onto the stock exchange separately.

Okay. So can you give any indication how much debt will go out of the balance sheet and how much assets will go out?

Yes. Like I said, this process of demerger, as you know that it has to go through the various processes, and finally, it has to be approved by the NCLT. This demerger will get impacted the way we get the NCLT order and we file that NCLT order with ROC. On that day, whatever the assets and labilities of the company will be there, that will get transferred to the new company.

Okay. Sir, as of now, can you give some rough estimate how...

In December, approximately, my understanding was our -- what we call bank borrowing or the debt was in the range of around INR 450 crore.

On textile?

On textile. That will move to the textile business.

Okay. And sir, assets, there are any rough estimates?

Assets, broadly, I can tell you approximately around -- net assets would be roughly around INR 900 crores kind of a number.

Okay. Okay. So -- and sir, coming to outlook on both the companies, in light of this -- new developments that are happening globally. So specifically in yarn, do you see any near-term or maybe medium-term impact and similarly on soda ash also because if the global economy heads into recession, so do we expect any sharp fall in the prices in soda ash also?

At this point of a time, it is very difficult to predict what will happen because of this coronavirus impact. However, my judgment till now is that it will not have any major impact on the chemicals business, number one. Number two, on the textile side, maybe some impact may happen because largely textile has some element of the exports, and that export element may have an impact overall on the textile.

But as of now...

But as of now, there is no impact.

Okay. So as of now, in this quarter, you've not taken any price cuts in any of the business?

No really, no. Frankly speaking, on the soda ash side, slightly -- it should kind of a slightly positive because the import can slightly go down. We all -- it has to be seen in the next year, I would say, few weeks.

Okay. And sir, you mentioned in your remarks that next year, there may be around 28% margin in soda ash. But in the light of this input deflation, so can we expect like around 30%, 31% margin because that was earlier indication, I think, from your side?

No, last call also I have said the similar kind of a number. And at this point of time, we are maintaining the same.

The next question is from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

Congratulations for announcing this shareholder-friendly measure because world over, I think people are not valuing conglomerates appropriately. And this seems to be in line with the vision that we have. Now coming to this demerger, one question that I had was will the lenders allow this because the textile business used to have INR 100 crore EBITDA and you're saying INR 500 crore odd debt. So the debt serviceability might be a problem, especially in view of the poor economic scenario. So any thoughts on that?

See, at this point of a time, our understanding is, we will be able to take the confidence of the lender as well. Because the assets are the total demerger which is taking place, where the textile is also being carved out on a healthy assets and liabilities. Debt equity ratio also, the way I've explained to you, debt equity ratio will also be very, very favorable. Even we have looked at that, your EBITDA debt coverage. All those ratios we have broadly seen. And after a long discussion with our finance team, we are reasonably confident that we will be able to get the approval of the lenders.

Okay. And can you -- with regard to this recent fall in the share price, GHCL has been a fairly liquid stock as such. So any reasons that you will ascribe or anything -- generally, such companies with fairly stable profitability and business do not fall so much. So anything that has come to your notice that you would like to share?

Really, frankly speaking, these questions needs to be answered by the investor himself. We, as a management, our goal is to look at the companies which are being run on efficiently, under the high standard of corporate governance and run with a completely professionalism. And as a part of the -- on behalf of the management, I can only tell you that on these parameters, we have always been successful, and we'll continue to be successful on this.

And lastly, sir, on the soda ash business now, given the shutdown that happened in China, I think there are 2, 3 aspects to the soda ash business. One is the fall in demand of soda ash globally because of the shutdowns which are happening everywhere. The second is the fall which may also happen in terms of the production? And third is, hence, what will happen to imports in India? So any thoughts around it? I mean last time, you did say that we will have 2% to 3% further decline, which will be managed by the cost efficiencies resulting in Q4 profitability to be similar to Q3. But any changes to that outlook or any thoughts on how this production and demand and imports in India are panning out given the scenario?

See, first of all, our outlook at this point of time, what we have said in the last call, remains at the same level. We maintain that similar kind of outlook at this point of a time. Number two, because of this global coronavirus issue, what is likely to happen at this point of time, it's very early to speak about this. At this point of time, no production cuts, no demand cuts. We are not seeing anything. But how this will shape up in next few weeks probably has to be worked out.

Okay. Okay, sir. And on the textile side, you feel that things are again stable as they were in Q3. No impact whatsoever has been seen even on the home textile side, which is primarily exports to the U.S. where again, I think some measures have been put by the government, et cetera?

See, like I said, on the textile side, of course, in this quarter, we don't see any major challenge. However, going forward, again, this coronavirus issue, how the retailing takes place in the U.S., how long this coronavirus issue is being making an impact on the global scenario has to be watched out. But if continues to a slightly longer period of time, definitely some impact will be there to the textile industry overall. Because if the export does not -- or comes down or the retailing goes down, definitely, that will have an impact on textile industry per say.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Viraj Kacharia from Securities Investment Managers.

Just have 2 questions. Both on the soda ash business. First is, just kind of mere understanding of what is the inventory now in the system in India? And what is the price realization we're getting now after the price cut we're seeing? So is the cut more than compensated by the drop in RM? Or we're seeing some pressure on the spreads?

Like I said, at this point of a time, prices are more or less stabilized. So we are not seeing any further pressure on the price at this point of a time. And in terms of inventories, I think gradually, not very significant drop has not happened, but some amount of drop has happened in the inventory.

Sir, but you said something about imports being lower incrementally, any particular reason why we're expecting that? Or is it just purely because of China shutdown? Or how should one understand this?

I think basically, there are 2 thing things which has happened. One is definitely because of this price drop, which we had happened in the last few months has become -- made the domestic industry more competitive in terms of the pricing for the consumer. That is number one. Second, as you know that the dollar-rupee also has some -- rupee has slightly weakened. That also helps in kind of bringing that closeness of the pricing or you getting more advantage of the pricing because the dollar was in the range of around INR 70, now INR 74, all those things helps, number one. Had -- I would say that because of this whatever the global situation of the health are there, that will also reduce some kind of import because of the fear factor also somewhere.

Sir, globally, what is the inventory or the demand-supply equation right now? Is it more on the surplus side? Are we seeing inventories getting buildup out or?

Globally, I would say at this point of time, I would say that it's not very much towards the oversupply situation. But yes, to some extent, yes, not significant, but some yes, because of this -- Turkey has -- after the Turkey has come into the production, after the slight oversupply situation is there. And there is primarily, I would say -- China, no, I would not say that the China is having any major oversupply situation. It will be more on Turkey and to some extent, Iran, and some U.S.

The next question is from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Mutual Funds.

Sir, just 2 questions. One is on coal prices. We have seen it has moved up, but in the last 15, 20 days, it has again come down. And just correlating with what soda ash prices have been behaving, is it in line with that or?

Yes. If you look at the coal prices, I would say that the coal prices are at this point of time is on the lower side. And that is definitely helping the industry in terms of managing their cost. And that's why I said, around 28% of the margin will be stable. And definitely, the coal price is helping to maintain that.

So just this 3% price drop is equivalent to the kind of coal price decrease which we have seen. Is it more or less similar or?

Two things, Resham, one is that the coal prices, we also don't see the coal prices going up from here, okay. So therefore -- and the soda ash price that I just told you, soda ash prices also looks to be stable. So this margin which we are talking about, looks to be fairly stable at this point of the time. Just to answer your question about the coal prices, some impact of the coal prices on the favorable side as you've seen in the soda ash, but whether that 3% reduction will be 100% will be compensated by the coal prices, no. Because there are other areas also, like in coke, there also some improvement in the pricing or the prices have gone down. And overall if you can see building which we have done, that will also help us. Overall, we will be in a position to maintain the margins.

Sir, my second question is on textiles. One of the other guys have also asked is on the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio, which is currently, we look at the EBITDA of textile business closer to INR 120 crores this year and INR 450 crores of debt. Is there any -- what we understand is that there has been certain noncore assets also in textile business. So will that remain in GHCL? Or that will get demerged and the similar -- the way you have acquired long back, it will move in the same way into the subsidiary or the vertical demerged company?

Everything relating to this -- of the textile business, will move to the new company, including the -- what we said noncore assets. That will also go to the...

And what will be the value of that, sir?

I don't know what will be the value of that because we have really not examined that value of that. But I think it will be a reasonably good number will be there.

And any plans to reduce it because as you yourself mentioned, with the global situation getting worsening, there is a possibility that there can be a lower demand and other stuff, will you be initiating any action on divestment of those noncore assets because that can be crucial because of the higher net debt-to-EBITDA ratio...

No, 2 things I would like to highlight here is, one, the moment we are separating these 2 companies, that means the capital allocation remains the -- of the different company has their own priorities, number one, okay? So that will bring the -- because always the investor had a concern about the capital allocation. The moment we are separating this company, the new company will have all those opportunity of doing that. Second, prior to talking about the disinvestments, if you remember the discussion which we had in the past, we have always made a statement saying that every business has to justify their own existence. So that will also get addressed by doing this demerger. Third, yes, you are right, if that opportunity or that need is required, we'll not hesitate in disinvesting the noncore assets.

The next question is from the line of [ Saket Kapoor from Kapoor Company ].

Sir, firstly, congratulations to the team, sir, for looking into our request -- request of entire investor fraternity and doing it last week. Sir, if you look at the anti-dumping duty from Iran, sir, we have instigated something on that. Any update on that, sir?

Yes, we have initiated, and the government has accepted our request and the investigation has already started on anti-dumping duty on Turkey and the U.S., number one. In addition to that, we have also instigated a subsidy on the Turkey. And that also has also been accepted, and that will -- also has got initiated. So out of these 2, both the investigations are on, let's see how the results come.

The second point I missed. For Turkey, you spoke again, what was that?

See, one is a anti-dumping. So one, the anti-dumping application we have made for Turkey and the U.S., that is number one. Second is a subsidy which -- if any government or any country, if they give any export, any incentive to make that business or give some, what we call noncompliant WTO subsidies or to make that. So there is a separate provision under which we can file the subsidy application. And that subsidiary application is also under consideration of the government, where if we have been able to prove that Turkey is giving some subsidy to their -- to that industry, to that extent, there will be a benefit to the -- given to the domestic producers by imposing that kind of amount on the anti-dumping. So that will be separate provision will be there, separate embargo will be there, if you say that.

Okay. And for the Iran, sir, any update? Iran, we have just initiated on this.

No, Iran, we have not initiated anything because Iran is a very small volume, which is not making any major impact onto the market. The major impact comes from Turkey and the U.S. and therefore, we are focused only on these 2 countries.

Sir, on the greenfield project part, sir, as per the new norms stated by the -- in the budget -- before the budget, wherein, if we incorporate a separate company, we would be getting the lower tax benefit. So are we still going ahead with the greenfield expansion with in-house in GHCL? Or we can look for a separate entity altogether being a subsidiary or in some way and then -- then have a different player -- key player invited to participate in that greenfield expansion? Or have we not taken any view on that?

Right now, we have not taken any view on that, but all these points are on our agenda, and we are continuously looking at what should be the best way of, which is more, I would say -- that's friendly and where the opportunity of a partnership from somebody from outside, all those things will be examined in the due course of time.

Sir, last point about that value addition part, sir, you told that value-added product and all we will be looking forward going forward. So if you could give some -- what kind of mix are we going to look in the value-added segment? If you compare your peers, the peer has already started investing and some of them, the fruits will start delivering. So are we also working in the same line? Or we will be focusing first on building up the new capacity in the phased manner, and then reaping the benefit and therefore, looking into value-added later on, just wanted to understand how will value-added be a part going forward for this inorganic chemical [ industry ]?

If you look at the value-added part of sodium bicarbonate, that is immediate, and that will happen in the current location, and everything will be done on the value-added of that into the current business or into the current location. So far as the other opportunities are concerned, other value-added product will be there. That will be somewhere linked with the new greenfield project because there you need the space, you need infrastructures and things like that, that will be part of that. But sodium bicarbonate will be part of the current location.

Sir, sodium bicarbonate, we are not doing any expansion right now. We are already 60,000 tonnes, I think, so.

Yes. But we are preparing ourselves for growth into the sodium bicarbonate at an existing location going forward. But right now, we have not allocated any capital on that.

Okay. But we will be expanding the capacity. That is what you are trying -- inclined to?

Yes, yes, yes, because the capital allocation is very small for that business.

Right. Then last point is that, sir, we have always wondered, sir, about the low P ratios commanded by us. Earlier, it was different businesses being housed under one roof. Now the first step being taken by the Board to -- of demerging it. But just being fortunate or unfortunate, the P ratio has moved downward with the fall in the market. So I just wanted to understand, how should investor value a company with this kind of cash flow available at 3 P or 4 P? And the expansion somehow in the P valuation is not happening. So you have taken whatever steps we can understand, investors can look into have come up. And looking into this now, looking into what the environment is all about, what will happen -- how can P now expand? Because it is not -- investors are at base at right time -- I see right time this time because of whatever the fall has happened. So P has contracted, any thought process on that?

See, first of all, it is a question which is very difficult to answer this question. But one thing definitely, as an individual, I would like to say that. I always believe in one thing, which probably if I can say -- speak in Hindi [Foreign Language]. So I believe in that. That you continue to do your best. You continue to do the right thing. And ultimately, someday, definitely you'll get the results for that. Our goal is to run the company decently, run on ethical -- this thing, run with the strong corporate governance, meet the -- your stakeholders' expectation, and we are doing that. If anything you think that we should do that, we are happy to do that.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Rohit Nagraj from Sunidhi Securities.

Sir, we have reduced our debt by INR 200 crores in the first 9 months. So is there any possibility of further reduction in the debt for -- during the demerger process, which will happen over the next 12 to 15 months? And maybe we would like to reduce the debt on the textiles front given that -- their participants have also talked about the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio?

No, surely, as you rightly said, if you look at during this 3 months, which is beyond December, on one side we have invested -- we've already, if I can say so, by buyback to our shareholders. Now we have given the interim dividend also. In these 3 months, I don't see any major reduction into the debt. However, next year, again, we have a strong cash flow. And definitely, that will help to reduce the debt. And the benefit of reduction of debt will definitely go to some extent will go to the textile business as well.

Okay. And sir, just a small clarification. So almost 2.5 months of this quarter over and even the corona impact has been there for about 1, 1.5 months. So have we seen any kind of reduction in terms of our exports orders on the textile front, although the impact may not be during this quarter, but maybe some reduction in the future orders for Q1?

Up till now, no such kind of a reduction, up till now.

The next question is from the line of Riddhesh Gandhi from Discovery Capital. And this is the last question.

Mr. Jalan, I think this is a great initiative. And just to point out, I think since you guys have decided to effectively hire new auditors, put in a kind of a corporate governance process in place, et cetera, I think initiatives have been great. And we as shareholders between the actual buybacks and dividends have received back about 30% of the existing market cap in the last 3 years. And so I appreciate that. And hopefully, this initiative helps to [ re-rate ] the story to a more reasonable level. Just a couple of questions on the home textile front. What I understand is a large amount of the profitability is with yarn as opposed to the home textiles. So in the event that there is a slowdown, would we be able to sort of limit the losses of the home textile division and kind of continue to -- I mean, make the spreads in yarn?

See, 2 things I would like to highlight. The initiative of cost reductions has already been taken into the action. And surely, that focus will continue going forward. I am personally looking after that situation and we are trying to limit, we are trying to reduce the cost to the home textiles without compromising on our business opportunities. So that is also very important. It should not happen that in the process of -- in the desire of reducing the cost, we'll lose the business opportunity. But we are very aggressively looking at the optimization of our costs and reducing our costs. And that -- I think you will see the next few years, in terms of the home textiles business. So far as the capital allocation is concerned, as we have been saying before, our entire focus on the capital allocation in the -- if I talk about the textiles business, it's primarily on the streaming side. We are not allocating any additional capital onto that -- into the home textiles side. And I'm very hopeful the things will turn out to be better for the textiles in totality, where the home textile will also contribute into the bottom line. I'm very hopeful.

And on the spinning side, are you all seeing any compressions in the conversion margin under the premium over kind of cotton prices?

Not really. At this point of a time, we don't see any compression in the margins. Frankly speaking, if you look at the last time, which -- except the coronavirus impact, which I don't know right now, what will exactly shape out. It's too early to talk about that. Otherwise, like I said in the earlier call also, spinning has started doing better, in the third quarter we were slightly better and the fourth quarter, probably, it should be slightly more better than third quarter as well. The things are improving in the spinning side, I can say that.

I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you very much to all the participants and our stakeholders. Like I have always been saying we will do our best to make sure that the business runs efficiently with a very high standard of corporate governance. And create the value for all our stakeholders. That's our mission, and we will surely pursue our dream of creating it day in and day out. And if you have any other clarification, please do get in touch with us. Our team will always be there to give you all the clarification, which is required about this demerger or any other questions. Thank you very much, everyone.

Thank you. On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.