Global Dominion Access, S.A. (DOM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to the present -- this year's results. Before starting, I would like to remind you that before we finish the presentation, we will move on to the Q&A session. You can leave your questions in writing in the section on questions and answers or you can call in by the telephone or raise your hand. But let's start off with the presentation. We have Mikel Barandiaran, who is the CEO of Dominion; Roberto Tobillas, the Director General; and Patricia Berjon, who is the Director for Corporate Development.

Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for attending this conference on the results of the 2022 fiscal year. The numbers published this morning show that it's been a very positive year. And an adverse context, 2022 was a complex year for the world with a geopolitical conflict that will reach its first year tomorrow, and which has unleashed an energy crisis, note that it's a market area that has been influenced by inflation that has produced drastic changes in the international monetary policy with an increase in interest rates never seen in the last 20 years. And even in spite of all this, it's been a very good year for Dominion. And even bearing in mind this context, which we had to fight against, we can say that it was a wonderful year from an economic perspective, as we will point out later on in the presentation as well as from a human perspective, where we are very proud to be 12,500 employees. And in the year 2022, we multiplied by 2 our growth target for the business figure. We've grown 10% organically. We've grown in 2 digits as regards margins and 7% in terms of ordinary profits. We've generated more operating cash than ordinary profit, EUR 60 million versus EUR 45 million as we've done year-after-year. And the dividend per share that we expect to pay out this year has increased 13% compared to the figure of 2021. But before moving on to the economic data, I would like to explain several operations and corporate events that we've carried out in 2022, which I think are necessary to understand the data and to be able to establish the forecast of what the business is going to be like. We have closed 2022 with a significant consolidation of our renewables business. I think that it's important to understand the details of the operations. But above all, we have to understand the context. You know that our strategic plan has indebted its limit of 2x EBITDA, so that means that apart from growing organically and, to a large extent, we wanted to carry out inorganic operations. And that M&A has not been possible mainly because of the major differences between the multiples of the private market vis-a-vis the stock exchange market. So we've -- in the last few months or the last few years, we've decided to not only pay out the dividend, but also to repurchase our own shares by spending more than EUR 60 million to rebuying in the last 3 years, and we've now decided to invest in taking the majority shares as regards to the developer of the wind farms fast where we had 35% of the shares. So that's how we are now the owners of the infrastructure. So apart from developing and providing long-term maintenance for the renewable assets, as we have done until now. We now produce energy as the owners of those assets. In other words, we are a true IPP. We are an independent energy producer that is vertically integrated. Well, this forms part of our approach with regard to the energy transition, and this is a business that generates a very recurrent cash flows, which I think is a stability element in view of the uncertainty that surround us. So the fact that we've taken the majority of the shares, what has taken place, thanks to capitalizing the loan that Dominion had with BAS, so therefore, it doesn't represent an additional cash out, and now with the conversion of this EUR 100 million of debt into equity, we consolidate the company with 99% of the ownership. And this operation has been carried out in the last few weeks of the year. And therefore, it has no impact on the operating margins, but it does represent the integration of the full BAS balance sheet, including EUR 211 million of net financial debt associated with those projects. But we also trust this renewable division because we're going to acquire the monetary shareholder of IPP, which is Incus Capital. We're not only kind of become an IPP, as I said before, but this means that we are simplifying our share structure, we'll recover complete ownership. We are fully convinced -- we are convinced about the strategic plan in the area of renewables that has grown this year. And we've had the opportunity of executing an acquisition option where we believe that there's a very high value, which coincides with the economic and financial forecasts. So the business -- this operation has been carried out by executing this call with shares totaling 23.4% of the minority shareholder totaling EUR 67 million that can be seen as a debt to be paid on the balance sheet in January 2024. So that means that this business works as a vertically integrated IPP owned 100% by Dominion. As regards to projects, and I'm talking about this area of renewables, we will work to developed a shared management system for our partners, in over 50% applying our diversification culture and financial discipline. And we think that we will have a permanent comparison of our margins with the market and also a diversification of risk through having local partners. And I would like to say that for the projects that we've already been carried out or are currently in progress at the Dominican Republic and in that Central American region, we already have an agreement with CMI with corporate [indiscernible], who will be our 50% partner for projects in that region. So because of this new situation over the next few months, we will provide specific information on this activity on renewables that will allow us to monitor how things unfold. For the time being, the current snapshot of projects -- current projects and future projects can be seen in this presentation. We have nearly 200 megawatts and exploitation on the closing date of 2022 that will become more than 500 megawatts at the end of this year 2023. And in about 3 years, that is from 2024 to '26, we will be commissioning another 1.5 additional gigawatts from a total pipeline of more than 2.5 gigawatts. So in other words, we'll be reaching 2.2 gigawatts under exploitation by the end of 2026, and we have projects identified that will be on that date. These projects are geographically diversified with the mix between Europe, especially in Spain and Italy and America. And in the case of America, we are working in the hard currency in dollars or euros and with most of the energy that is linked to PPAs. And as I said before, in America, we already have a local partner that is CMI. But I would also like to remind you about some other operations or some other important elements we've had this year. We have the terms and impacts of another of the operations carried out that has to do with the agreement we reached with Repsol in the month of August. And as we mentioned in the previous 9-month call, the purpose is to reverse and the negative trends related to new customers that we saw over the last few months as regard to commercializing energy, and we will share the management of the current and future portfolio. And Repsol, what it does is provide us with a competitive energy offer we have a big catchment capacity through our omnichannel network. This has an impact on the P&L by reducing the business figure because this agreement means that we're going to include the catchment fee instead of the overall invoicing from the customer. And I would like to talk about the situation of our -- the situation of our line of metallic structures in Denmark that is still to be closed. So we're still pending the operations to be closed with the divestitures. And I think that now that I've mentioned these operations and now that we've seen the figures, let's move on now to the main magnitudes in the business. As I said before, the good progression of the business and our financial discipline have allowed us to share with you some results that in the first line show that we've had organic growth of adjusted sales totaling 10%. This means that we multiply by 2, the growth target we've established in our plan. That goal is 5%. And well, we can also see how the influence of ForEx has added on 1.9%. However, the contribution of the inorganic growth has been negative, by minus 4.5%. And basically, this refers to the fact that we no longer have about EUR 20 million of the activities available for sale and about EUR 25 million in turnover that disappear from this Repsol agreement that have a repercussion on the invoicing with B2C. We have a high level of operational leverage, which is what usually happens in Dominion. That means that we have a double-digit growth of EBITDA, 11%, which is going to be multiplied downwards and we could see how EBITDA and EBIT grow above 16%. And among other things, we've been capable of optimizing our structure costs by more than 5% compared to the previous year. So that means that this structure weighs less than 2.5% of our adjusted sales. So with all the data, we have an EBITDA of EUR 123 million. But apart from operational margins, we also have the balanced expenses that have increased practically throughout the entire year. With the increase of financial expenses arising from the increase in interest rates as well as because of the valuation of assets under the current rate of exchange conditions. And for instance, the equity stock, that is supposed to cover long-term incentives plan for the management team, has accounted for a difference of more than EUR 3 million -- negative euros compared to the previous year. And with the increase of these balance expenses, we reached an ordinary benefit or profit of EUR 45.2 million, which grows 7% compared to '21. So understand that ordinary profit is something that doesn't take into account the interrupted activity nor the profits that have to do with the minority shareholder of renewables that were not present in 2021 and will not be present in '23. So therefore, this is the net profit, and it's the figure that we will use to pay out 1/3 in the form of a dividend, in other words, paying up 1/3 of the EUR 45 million, it would be EUR 50 million in the year '23. So that means that the dividend per share grows 13% compared to last year because I would like to remind you that in 2022, what we did was carry out the amortization of the second 5% of our own shares that were acquired through the buyback program. So in other words, in this commitment of ours, instead of increasing our ordinary profit, 7%, dividend per share grew 30% as a consequence of this amortization. Let's move on now to how each business segment has behaved at the end of '22. We saw how growth that we saw in both B2B segments in services and projects, how it increased. And we closed a record quarter in terms of turn up in both segments with a growth of 10% in services and 18% in projects. Whilst in the B2C segment that was affected by the bad behavior of consumers and the increase of instability in terms of energy prices, it's been practically flat. And you can see in the figures that they've gone down, and this corresponds to the turnover impact that has been brought about by including this in the books after the agreement with Repsol. But as regards to the management of the different businesses, what we have to point out is the good behavior of the contribution margins because globally in the country, these margins have grown 8% which takes us to a contribution margin figure of nearly EUR 150 million. And once again, these are the 2 B2B segments that show that there's a resilient and very recurrent behavior even in an inflationist context. And the growth of margins in a context like this shows the excellent capability we have to absorb the increase in costs, thanks to the nature of our contracts, and also because we have lots of negotiation capacity with our customers and efficient management. B2B services stands at 12% of the contribution margin over sales that we've been talking about in the previous quarters. and the B2B projects that reaches a contribution margin of about 18%, which is far above the target of 15%. The contribution margin for the B2C segment is still affected like in previous quarters, the other business like Rentik, for instance, with 15,000 new incorporations in '22 or the vertical of 2 communications that have grown 90% compared to '21, reaching more than 270,000 active supplies, both of these verticals have grown, but the margin of this segment has been affected by the impact of nonpayments in the field of energy. So when we look into these segments of that B2B, the 2 segments, services and projects, they account for 85% of the turnover even more as regards to margins, 91% of the margins, and they are still gaining more weight. And the main drivers of the business during the year of these 2 segments have been the sustainability services for the industry with an excellent year in the oil and gas sector and the renewable projects that have also played a very relevant role. And both drivers together with project portfolio of more than EUR 580 million will be drivers in the future in 2023. Geographically speaking, well, there's been a very significant amount of growth in Latin America. For instance, we've doubled our turnover in a country like Colombia, where we've also carried out a bolt-on acquisition with [ ZH Engenieros ] and where today, we have more than 2,000 employees. And what this means is that for the first time, nearly 50% of the business is outside Europe. Right. Let's move on now to the balance sheet. And do you have in your documentation. You have all the information broken down between what the comparable balance sheet would have been [indiscernible] prior to these operations and the renewables and what it means to integrate the business of renewable infrastructures and acquiring the minority company. And while the main movements that are not related to these operations are connected to a reduction of the IFRS 16 [ debt ] or the buyback of shares and the dividend we paid at the reclassification of assets and liabilities associated with the activities that have been maintained for sale. The operations mean that we integrated the BAS balance sheet with EUR 251 million in infrastructural assets and EUR 211 million of net financial debt, whilst the minority share acquisition operation explains the movement of nearly EUR 67 million between net equity and the item of others where we have this commitment of the future payment. And we also -- to compare this information, we've separated the net financial debt, we can see the net financial debt that we would have closed 2022 with a comparable perimeter that would have been a net cash position of EUR 47 million. But how can we exceed that figure, how could we see that figure of EUR 65 million? Or how can we come down to EUR 47 million? This is by generating a very positive cash flow with nearly more than 76% of EBITDA, meeting our financial discipline requirements, and we've invested EUR 27 million in buyback programs and EUR 13.5 million for the payment of the dividend. And finally, we've invested in the growth of the company. We've invested something about EUR 35 million. We've paid earn-outs and M&A. And we've also invested in greenfield growth with the acquisition of renewable project developments and the investments required to launch multi-technical service contracts and the new business that has to do with renting and mobile devices. And now that we have this net position -- cash position of EUR 47 million, once we include the infrastructure that we have a net financial debt of EUR 163 million, which represents a data of 1.3x EBITDA. So therefore, within the limits of our financial discipline. I don't want to finish this review of 2022 without saying something about how we've advanced in terms of our sustainability strategy. We've made lots of progress, and this has been recognized by the rating agencies like Standard & Poor's, for instance. And a few days ago, they situated us at percentile 89 of the sector. So therefore, this considered -- this increased our score significantly compared to last year. And we've also renovated our syndicated loan, and we have done so by associating it with a sustainable criteria and also an environmental criteria. At Dominion, we are environmentally neutral. And in fact, our positive footprint is very good, and we also have commitments from the point of view of corporate social responsibility. We are sticking to the sustainable development cost. But as we've said on previous occasions, we are working very intensely in the field of health and safety, and we are investing in the incorporation of innovative technologies that will improve the occupational safety of our employees like "no man entry" systems. This is just one of many examples. As regards to the taxonomy regulation, which is another of the informations that we have published, we have multiplied the figure by 2, and it was 16% in 2021 and at 32% in 2022. And we have the external verifiers who confirmed that 99% of these eligible activities are in line. So I think that with only 1/3 of these chapters have developed, and we've developed 2 of the 6. We're talking about a figure of 32% of eligible activities when we know that once the European Union develops the rest of them, the percentage of activities that we carried out that have a sustainable character will be much, much bigger. And I would like to close now by talking about what it is we expect for 2023. And as you know, this year was the final year for the strategic plan, but all of these movements that I've just shared with you today, together with the new trends that we are observing in the market, require new positioning from our people, and we need to establish a new strategic conceptualization. And we have to anticipate things by nearly 1 year. So that means over the next few months and well, possibly during Q2 of this year, we will be sharing with you the new strategic plan that will lay down the strategy to be followed for the years 2023 to 2026. And well, one of the goals is to increase the recurrence and resilience of our company, and it will be very focused on the opportunities that are offered by the energy transition, as I've always said, and by sustainability that will be required by our customers. Right. So that's all for me. Thank you very much indeed for your attention. And let's move on now to your questions. I would like to remind you that you can ask via the chat or you can ask directly on the telephone.

[Operator Instructions] So firstly, we have Carlos Trevino from Santander.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you perfectly clearly.

Well, I have several questions which are related to Dominion Energy. And I wanted to ask you, firstly, well, perhaps you could explain the reasons here apart from the fact that you think that this is an [ underestimated ] business. So the changes in the shareholder structure, it was only 1 year ago when Incus Capital came in on and now they're leaving. So what didn't happen with that capital? What didn't work with that capital structure why are we not happy with that capital structure? And what's going to happen in the future? So are you going to allow new partners to enter? Or do you think -- well, do you consider being listed on the stock exchange? I'd also like to ask you about the capital structure of Dominion. Dominion is a company that since it was listed on the stock exchange has had a net position. And you've had a 2x leverage objective in mind too. But do you think that you might exceed that target -- and I want to ask you this because of the funding needs that the projects might require those that you have in the pipeline in the Dominion Energy business and changing gears a bit, more specifically, what are your ideas for 2023? Any quantification? What kind of growth do you expect as regards to revenues and EBITDA, for instance?

Can you hear me. Okay. Well, hello, this is Roberto speaking. Carlos, well, let's see, well, the fact that Incus left, I think that this is something that we said previously. Well, this is an operation that we did out of opportunity and because we've been convinced because when we did this operation, we wanted also in this permanent comparison of market values. We wanted it to be made very clear that a third party joined the company. We've added them, but we always have the possibility in the first 2 years of being able to do a buyback. And what we are seeing -- and as regards to the company's policy, what we can see is that a very clear exercise of using our operating cash and our cash surplus, as you know, that we have been using them for the buyback of our own shares, but we saw a very clear possibility of allocating capital very efficiently and with returns that we believe are attractive. And this is what Patricia said, we've detected a value gap and the fact that we focus much more on the numbers and the forecast we use internally, and we also saw that it was an opportunity to faster by the state. And the relationship with Incus is magnificent and with its employees, too. And I think that, well, now we -- thanks to this joint approach and with EUR 75 million, we've been able to, let's say, make a much better use of our commercial opportunities. So it's another step we're taking now that we're moving on to the IPP project 100%, and we're very happy. We believe that we've generated value for all of us. And we think that there is still more value to be generated and it's an operation in which we could -- well, we took this decision, which is what we're doing right now. And it's a payment. You can see that it's EUR 66.9 million on the balance sheet that we will pay the beginning of 2024. And this is somewhat related to what you said about the need to get funding. Well, we believe that the path that is being followed by our IPP with our capitalization in the energy sector, I think that it's working well. But what we have to do is what Patricia said, we have to look for these equity partners and divided by different geographies and by applying this financial discipline of permanently comparing the value of things with a third party with the market and not only with the banks that give us the project finance but also with equity partners, too. And in this regard, will everything could be addressed. So you're considering issues like IPO or operations, or in corporations. But what we have decided right now is that here, we can see that there's a growth vector that is very significant for the company. A vector that is in line with our ESG practices and with our energy transition actions. And well, we've always been very active in M&A and operations of this kind -- and although what we try to do is that this strategic plan related to energy to be self-sufficient, financially. And although we have the necessary power to get this done. We know that it's a capital-intensive business and also in capital too, and we will play an active role in operations of this kind. And you were asking about the strategy, what has to do with the capital structure of Dominion in this plan. And if you -- Well, I would dare say something. Of course, I can't give you any guidance here, but I would say that we are going to be below those 2x EBITDA. And I would like to underscore what Patricia pointed out, and that is that all the debt of this division of Dominion [indiscernible] and renewables, it's a debt that you know has been allocated unequivocally to projects. So it's debt that can be -- that is in different phases until we reach the project finance and resources. And in that regard, while there is a debt that is funding our project, which is -- well, most of them are ready to build and other -- we have another stage in the Dominican Republic. There is much more advanced, and we have the project finance. And right now we are financing the equity that we've paid out. But in the case, it will be a division that we obviously take on the responsibility of giving you throughout this year, we're going to give you more information, and we're going to explain things with more KPIs and where -- whatever has to do with debt is an important thing. But I think that in this search for equity partners, and not even in this ambitious plan that we have. But I don't really think that we have -- will have any covenants that will exceed 2x EBITDA. No, it's the opposite, rather. This essence that Dominion has of operating with financial discipline and with very low levels of indebted, this is something that should continue. And I think I don't know what to say about guidance in 2023. But yes, we are working on this strategy, as Patricia has pointed out. But in any case, it will be -- at least it will be like the plan we had before and that you are familiar with, with the initially designed [indiscernible] case, we think that this will improve in a reasonable manner.

Okay. Let's continue with [ Ignacio Ortiz ] [indiscernible].

Can you hear me?

Yes, perfect. Ignacio.

My questions are very focused on what has to do with energy. Well, the first question would be now that the structure, now that the capital structure of the company is changing, as Carlos pointed out in his question, it's important for us to be able to monitor the CapEx that you're going to dedicate Dominion regardless of your future partners so that you can implement the 345 megawatts you've programmed for 2023 and 0.7 gigawatts until 2026. So the question would be, could you give us some more information on this CapEx? What is it we should expect for 2023? And also for the rest of the pipeline? And then another thing -- and perhaps this is more of more common than anything else because -- well, let's say, and this is -- was stressing what we said before. And that the company changes a lot. And the equity story, as you have presented it in the lecture also changes.

I think bearing in mind that the weight of IPP will possibly be bigger than in the rest of the [ contract ] company. I think that in each presentation, you're going to have to give us a much more in-depth breakdown, which is what the IPPs are doing because the IPPs, we have in Spain. I'm not sure if it's 6 or 7 that are listed. And what they do is they have 25 or 30 slides on that business. And I think that this is going to become an important thing if you also -- if you want the market to take -- listen to consideration and value. And basically, that was all for me. So the question regarding CapEx and the comment that I just made on the change of strategy and the information that you have to provide in a better breakdown from my point of view, that is.

Okay. Well, it's my turn again, Ignacio, because I was just alluded to. Well, yes, that's a lot of work, 25 or 30 slides, that's a lot of work. But this is something that I mentioned to Carlos to. What I know is that now from now and on a quarterly basis because our ambition at the end of the day is to become one of those 5 IPPs that you know are important in Spain because we have the team, we have the culture. And above all, we have the people and we have the necessary degree of visibility. So we'll do so we'll start talking about megawatts about but to build, we'll start talking about geographies and PPAs, and we will provide all of that information because, yes, the time has come, to see -- well, if we've taken the decision of accepting the balance and if this has not affected us in 2022 because we did this at the end of December, or for the year 2023, we're going to look into that financial statement. And we could look into the margins we have in terms of operation and maintenance and construction and development, and we're looking to exploitation and what this means, and we'll be giving you information on debt, et cetera, and we will do that without a doubt. So that is our idea. And with this willingness, we want to be absolutely transparent when we give you this information. I'm sure Patricia will help you out as required, and she will give you all the KPIs. And then you're asking about the CapEx equity for '23, or the CapEx, I think I understood the CapEx that is required for these projects, but right now what I'd say that we are building 45 megawatts, sorry, 25 megawatts in Spain on the Peninsula, and we have nearly 250 megawatts in the Dominican Republic. And these are things that are underway. They're in progress. And this is what I said before. As regards the debt or part of that debt is applied to what the equity of most of the projects is going to be like the projects that were going to be commissioned that we're going to put in [ COD ] or that we're going to be putting into operation this year. So what I'd say then is that there is going to be a CapEx in whatever has to do with the development investments for all the projects we have in the different geographies at a global level, but there's also a very important part of the CapEx of the projects that have -- are going to be commissioned this year that are already covered by the opening balance sheet. So I think this is something that -- then the information we'll be presenting, that will be included, too. But most of this has been recognized. And so what are the project finances of the 4 projects in the Dominican Republic, Part of it has been paid out partially and we're working actively to sign and pay out the other 3, where most of the equity that has to be provided has been provided upfront. Anyway, I don't have the exact figures, but that's our approach.

Okay. Well, yes, I understand that most of it is more than 50% of that debt that is associated what you mentioned previously, okay, understood. And then I have another 2 questions that are related to this. So do you -- in this funding strategy, have you considered the asset rotation? And then the possibility of being listed on the stock exchange, in other words, have a listing of this IPP. Are these -- what probability would be able to give to both alternatives that is to the rotation of assets as well as to the possible listing of the IPP of Dominion?

Well, would it be more than 50% or less than 50%? Well, I wouldn't know what to say at this point in time. But what I would say is that I've said that both the drivers of the financial statement of IPP have to do with the construction, operation and maintenance or asset management. And you know that there are some companies out there in Spain, well, [ Green Energy ], I think he said that we know, we know that is true. And we know that from time to time, they do rotate assets. And we have rotated assets. And we did that in Mexico with the first project we carried out in the Dominican Republic of C&I, 100%, and we are more involved in an equity partner strategy of sharing of -- we're being very disciplined here of sharing the equity investment because we know that we are the guys that haven't controlled the asset until we're ready to be. So we are investing, let's say, part of the margins we generate in operation, and we feel comfortable with that. Rotations, well, yes, they can exist. But so what I mean to say by that, that everything that can be addressed and everything can be valued listings and relevant operations, although it's true that we are looking into this with our regional partners. We are building an IPP where there's -- where we want to -- more than 40% of the Latin American world with dollars in 60 or 60-something percent of the European world, Italy, Spain, Portugal, et cetera, in the Euro world. And when it becomes more difficult to attract these global partners. It's easier to attain these equity partners at the project level because there's so much more visibility in terms of flow. And Dominion equity is like a platform and [ formula ] at Dominion, where we kicked off with this in 2017. And organically, we've [ may have ] been able to build this up. So this project or this platform is the essence -- the main essence of the Dominion culture. So that's why we are fully convinced that we can -- we could be able to achieve higher levels of profitability in our projects compared to the situation that we added when we bought out the minority shareholders. So everything can be addressed but it needs to be seen yet. And what we have to do is continue down this path and with the pipeline we have, that is very, very robust so that it can become projects that initiate constructions at a very high level.

Miguel Gonzalez. Miguel, we can't hear you.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

Well, I wanted to -- my questions are also related to the renewable operation and above all with the Slide #8. And I would like to know, could you share with us, please, well, perhaps could you give us some more details now before the new strategic plan is set into motion. But my first question would be, which is the EBITDA that is generated by the 170 megawatts that have been installed. But well, could you please share the EBITDA of the biomass plant in Argentina? And where do you expect to reflect this in the P&L? Is that going to be 360 projects? Or are you going to integrate some separate division? And then another thing as regards to the ownership of the shares, could you please give us -- well, tell us how much percentage of shares you have in each of the projects with those assets that are in operation or those that will be entering this year. And just to clarify things a bit, the EUR 211 million BAS debt. Which part has to do with the CapEx of the projects that are going to be put into operation this year? I'm not sure if you mentioned this before, [ Ignacio ], we could say that there's something like 50% that could come from here or a little bit more than that. And then related to this, I'm not sure if you could give us some indication. I didn't mention the CapEx, but perhaps well, the CapEx per megawatt that you are now considering? And then one final thing with regards to the 2.5 gigawatt pipeline, could you give us the breakdown, please, of what these projects are, which projects do you expect to be commissioning in the next few years? That's all. I know that's a lot of questions. I'll repeat some of them if you -- if need be.

Well, Patricia has to assist me with this one.

Well, I think that there are questions that you're asking about the EBITDAs that are produced by projects. And as you know, in the P&L of 2022, nothing addresses this. We know these figures, of course, but I think that there could be treated in what has to do with the current information that we will be giving you. Yes, I think that the strategic plan that we have to present and what we will do is give you a snapshot. We will give you a snapshot of the different projects and the different situation this has to be understood well. There are projects that are 100%, others that are -- have shared management and the way these are integrated in the P&L are different. And in any case, what it has to be very clear that in the P&L of 2022, we haven't integrated anything as regards to renewables projects. And I think that this is the idea, and I know this is going to be positive, where we're talking about equity partners, these are shared management project. And we're not going to consolidate the EBITDA. We're not going to consolidate debt either. We're going to consolidate the attributable profit. So we are in initial situation in which some of these projects, as we said before, biomass or some projects in Ecuador or some other projects that we are about to finish in Spain are ours, 100%. But our model is going to be focused on looking for these equity partners so that we can share that equity. You've also asked about the EUR 211 million in debt. And I'd say that it's about 140 that have to do with nearly finished projects or under exploitation. So these are is the funding of the projects that are already producing power. And the rest of the debt is closely associated with the projects in progress and with other developments. And as I said, in the case of debt, we have that part of the equity that has already been paid out or projects that were being built on December 31, 2022, are going to be commissioned in the year 2023. What else?

The -- or the pipeline. So here, when we talk about the pipeline, I think -- what I would dare say is that basically, let's say, that the countries are Spain, where you know where we stand exactly, we have strategy that is very shared by the projects with projects less than 5 megawatts, they have a -- fast to track and they go quicker. We have projects for tendering processes, and we have projects that -- for which we presented some endorsements for last year, and we're still waiting for everything to be sold with the utilities and with [indiscernible]. And then we have another important part, and this is something that I said in other calls, where in Italy, we have made lots of progress. And it's true that in Italy, they are -- I'm talking about projects that have been identified with a point of connection. And in that country, where they are heading towards the B2B approach, especially in places like Sicily where they're going to have ready to be this year, and we will start construction work in Italy, there's an important part of that is total 1 giga. And then we have the Central American area with projects in Panama and then the Dominican Republic, projects that have been -- have received project financing or that have sovereign guarantees where there's a sort of something over 500 megawatts, if I'm not mistaken, where -- which we feel pretty comfortable with those regards to the immediate future for these next 2 or 3 years. But anyway, I think that we will talk about this in the future. We'll look into it quarter-by-quarter. And as Patricia pointed out previously, I think that you will see that this will be in the accounts for this year and we would explain things, of course.

I'm not sure if you said something about -- have you given us a date for the presentation of a new strategic plan? In other words, when you can have given us more information?

Well, we're thinking about before summer [indiscernible] in the first half of the year.

We're going to continue with [ Juan Carlos Helman ]. You are muted, Juan Carlos. We can't hear what you're saying.

Well, let's just review our chat questions, and there's one on the inputs that I think has already been answered. So let's move on to Alvaro Aristegui from Renta 4. He's asking us about renewables and the revenues that we can expect from promotional EPCs, where are the margins going to be consolidated in the P&L? Well, this is going to be considered like an investment and will only include the revenues as if they were sales of energy resulting from these assets. And there's another question, too, from [ Alvaro ]. The monetary shareholder partner, is this part of -- still the partner in any of the residual or individual projects? Well, the answer to the second question is no. And the answer to the first question is -- well, I don't know, Roberto, perhaps you could say something about that. I was just really -- well, you know that we might pick people can't see what's going on. half the time.

So well, this is an issue that has to do with the consolidation technique. And when somebody makes a project for himself and keep at any margin that the operation has -- must be eliminated. And you know that it's adjusted, and then it is modified during the mutation of the asset. So the -- well, it's obvious that we're going to have lots of sales here if the project. Well, we could make an adjustment in sales because this is going to be done for the movable [ or ] any other margins. And as we have the equity partner agreement with CMI in the Dominican Republic. We know that these projects, to the extent that there's a commitment to share them on a 50-50 basis. And even though they get out of our perimeter, we're recognizing these sales that have to do with the development and construction and the margins will be adjusted on a 50% basis. So we're going to have -- and going to have a hybrid financial statement and we will have revenues brought about by development and construction. There will be an adjustment of the margins. We'll have income produced by generating electricity. And we will also have income or revenues from O&M and asset management. So what I mean to say is that this is like one of the segments that analogously to what other IPPs are doing that are listed on the Spanish Stock Exchange, we will also have to make the disclosure and we will do so, and we will be an absolutely comparable peer and we compare this or share this information with you people.

Alvaro Aristegui has left another question on the chat. So therefore, do we have to expect there's going to be a significant slump in revenues? And could you give us a percentage of how much you're going to have to promote. The answer is no to this question. And I've already said, well, we will publish the new strategic plan. But in any case, we will grow at least as we saw in the previous plan, we will be growing at a rate of at least 5%. And that's the answer to the first part of the question. And well, the second part is that, no, sorry?

No. As regards to what Alvaro said, it depends on whether we indicate how many megawatts are owned 100% and how many 50%. Well, if we are building a project in which we have more than 50% of that has to be consolidated, we will obviously give you that information. But let's say that if it's a turnkey contract, and I think that, well, we can simplify, we couldn't say that it would be EUR 1 million per megawatt. It would be 50, so EUR 50 million, and they wouldn't appear under sales as was happening until now. But in any case, it's something that we will be able to perform and it's something we were able to explain, and we will be able to give you all the necessary information. But in principle, our idea -- the main idea is that most of the projects that we are to build, what we would like is to find a solution to have a co sort of partnership and equity partner from the ready to be of the project so that everything is completely clear. So that we have clear in our mind set the entire circuit.

We're going to continue with Pedro Yaguez from Columbus Investment Partners and who's asking us in the renewable projects under operation, what PPA contracts have you signed? At what price and how many megawatts? And he has another question. So have you signed any PPAs for operations at the end of 2023? I think that this means that we'd have to make a very significant disclosure. And the answer would be that there were all of the things that we are building or all of the things that we have built in the Dominican Republic, has PPAs with the government between 15 and 20 years, and these are perfectly bankable contracts. In terms of those that we are building this year as they have the definitive concession, we believe that they are eligible. And very soon, the cooperation of Dominican utilities, what is the [ call ] available to offer PPAs. So yes, and the project we have in Ecuador in Argentina have PPAs with the government. And the answer is yes. And the project that we are now concluding in Spain will be a project with private PPAs possibly. And in Mexico, the one we had under expectation has bilateral PPAs with private companies. So therefore, what I think is that the -- the bilateral and private PPA work is going to be much more for Spain and Italy. But as regards in Latin America, while we feel much more comfortable, and that's what we're doing, we rolled out projects that don't meet that requirement. So we are more in project format -- a project with PPA from the project finance stage, so that the leverages and can be optimized and so that the project can attain a much more favorable tier. There are no more questions, so we will close the presentation here. Thank you all very much indeed for attending this conference call. Thank you very much. Goodbye, everybody.

Thank you, and we'll see you at the next disclosure. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everybody. Bye-bye.