GlobalWafers Co., Ltd. (6488) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the joint earnings call for the fiscal year 2023, hosted by GlobalWafers and Sino-American Silicon Products Inc. I am Leah Peng, the spokesperson for GlobalWafers. Joining us today are C.W. Lee, the spokesperson for SAS and Doris Hsu, the Chairlady of both companies. Here is how today's call will unfold. Doris will start with executive comments, offering insights into the overall performance and the strategic direction. Then we will address questions we have received from investors recently. The session will conclude with an open Q&A. A quick reminder, please keep your audio on mute. To ensure a smooth and interactive session we have established a few methods for you to post questions during the event, using the Slido feature for written questions and utilizing the Webex hand raising function for live spoken inquiries. First, the Slido, which is the text based questions. Throughout the meeting, you can input your questions using the Slido feature in Webex. Simply access Slido and type in your question. Our presenter will monitor Slido regularly to address your written questions. To ensure the efficient use of time, we encourage you to type in your questions as the meeting starts. The second is the live voice question. Towards the end of the meeting, we will open the floor for live questions. If you wish to speak directly, please use the Webex raise hand function to indicate your intention. Once you raise your hand, kindly be ready to accept the host invitation to unmute your microphone when prompted. This will allow you to verbally pose your questions to the panel. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements. Please be aware that these statements are subject to various risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Please refer to the safe harbor notice in our presentation. Now without further delay, I would like to pass the floor to our chairperson for the executive comments on both GlobalWafers and SAS. Doris, please.

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for joining the 2023 earnings call of GlobalWafers and Sino-American Silicon Products Inc. This marks the first occasion where our companies come together for a joint earnings call. I believe this collaboration will offer a more comprehensive insight into our overall group performance and strategy positioning across the renewable energy and semiconductor sectors. With the 2023 financial results released at the end of February, today's call will mainly center around our perspectives on the industry, and update our operation status. Before we begin, I would like to share some positive improvement with all of you. Long term agreements with customers are typically measured in years. The revenue pattern for LTA tends to show lower figures at the beginning of the quarter or year. Additionally, shipment delays resulting from the Japan earthquake posed challenges for our January revenue. Consequently, we experienced a slower beginning this year. However, I'm very delighted to report that our February revenue are showing a promising improvement. We are we anticipate providing detailed information on this positive development once we announce our monthly revenue by March 10. Next, please. Allow me to start with GlobalWafers. Please see Page 3 and 4 for our financial highlights. Here, I would like to stress that despite all the headwinds in the macroeconomics and to the semiconductor industry, we managed to achieve revenue growth for 3 consecutive years, totaling TWD 70.7 billion. 2023 gross profit margin was 37.4%. The erosion was mainly resulted by higher depreciation and electricity cost, which will be further elaborated later by Leah. Our net profit margin reached a record high at 28%, and our earnings per share soared to TWD 45.41 per share, marking historic highs for both metrics. It's noteworthy that our EPS increased by over TWD 10 per share in 2023, a commendable achievements considering the prevailing headwinds. For the prepayment, as of end of 2023, our prepayment totaled TWD 35.4 billion or USD 1.2 billion. Next is the outlook on macroeconomies and semiconductor industry. IMF has increased its 2024 global GDP forecast to 3.1% with signs of a soft landing. Despite lingering below pre-pandemic levels, global consumer confidence is showing improvement, aligning with positive economic indicators like falling inflation. In 2024, the overall positive trend is anticipated to continue, supporting predictions for a semiconductor industry rebound. Despite the current downturn, our correspondence with customers in both medium- and long-term forecast indicates robust semiconductor revenue growth. This growth is propelled by fundamental factors in the semiconductor market, including collecting data through the widespread adopting of IoT sensors, moving data via high-speed 5G and expanding satellite networks, storing data in denser data centers, and utilizing data through AI software. Please note that semiconductor continue move from just a high -- just tech gadget to permeating all aspects of daily life. Semiconductor demand will continue to move away from supply/demand swings and consumer spending and track more closer to macroeconomics and total business CapEx spending. These key fundamentals are expected to drive the industry's resilience and expansion over the period. GlobalWafers, positioned upstream in the semiconductor supply chain, expects improvement performance. It's likely to happen in second half this year as customers prioritize existing inventory consumption first with one or 2 quarter lag compared to the downstream. Now, let me provide more insight into the renewable energy sector and the strategic business layout of its parent company, Sino-American Silicon Products Inc. SAS, the parent company of GlobalWafers, fortifies its foundation with 2 pillars. Number one is vertical integration in renewable energy, and the second, strategic investments across crucial bases in semiconductor industry. Both pillars contribute to sustainable growth momentum. I will recap SAS 2023 overall financial performance. SAS achieved a consolidated revenue of TWD 82 billion with a Y-o-Y growth of 0.12%, marking 3 consecutive years of growth. The gross profit margin stood at 32.6%. The net income margin reached 21.7%, reaching its second highest historical level. EPS was TWD 16.99 per share, reflecting an increase over TWD 2 per share compared to 2022. This is also the highest ever. Let's move to the industry outlook for renewable energy. The rising frequency of global extreme weather events has spurred the categorization of a worldwide transition to green energy, hastening the advancement of renewable energy on both global and Taiwanese scale to counteract the imminent threat of climate change. This commitment is underscored by COP28's resolution aiming to triple global renewable energy generation and double global energy efficiency by 2030. In Taiwan, in 2023, the solar industry faced disruptions due to domestic election influences, causing delays in power plant installations. The influx of competitively priced solar products, solar module from third countries hindered local development. Following the presidential election an anticipated increase in demand in Q2 is expected to stabilize the supply chain and mitigate price fluctuations. Solar energy, which is a leading force in the renewable energy sector, playing a pivotal role in the future development. Here, I will introduce SAS renewable energy strategy. The first one is on the product front. We are going to launch a large size M10 N-Type Topcon, a new technology. SAS has strategically harnessed the competitive advantage of larger size solar products in the development of the M10 N-Type Topcon with a specific focus on enhancing conversion efficiency to an impressive 25% or above. This innovation is well suited for Taiwan's constrained and densely populated areas. We anticipate commencing mass production this year. And the second, green energy trading and end applications. We are actively expanding our end markets by constructing solar power PV farms for fishery and agriculture. In parallel, we are involved in green energy trading to provide diverse renewable energy sources, including not only solar power, but also hydropower and wind power. Our hydropower generation is anticipated to commercialize by the end of 2025, solidifying our role as a comprehensive green energy solution provider. In addition to the renewable energy sector, SAS group's performance is further strengthened by its affiliates, strategically positioned along the semiconductor industry chain. Our SAS spokesperson, C.W. Lee, will later on provide further details in the upcoming FAQ section after Leah's presentation. Now, I would like to hand it over to Leah and C.W. Lee for the Q&A section. Thank you. Please, Leah.

Thank you, Doris. Please allow me to address both the questions we have received from investors recently and those we anticipate will be raised. Let's begin with GlobalWafers where I will respond to the FAQs. Okay. The first one, this is about our cash strategy. Given GlobalWafers' debt ratio of 65%, decreased customer prepayments and the reduction in cash, what is the potential impact on its operations, and how should the company address this situation? Please allow me to provide further insights into our cash position. In 2023, our cash balance stood at TWD 26 billion. Upon delving into other assets, an additional TWD 42 billion was identified, comprising restricted cash and deposits held for more than 3 months. If we include these cash related assets, our total cash in 2023 amounts to TWD 68 billion. In terms of CapEx funding, our approach involves various key strategies. First of all, we generate cash from daily operation, which contribute to enhancing our cash position. Apart from that, we have implemented multiple strategic measures including corporate bond, ECB, exchangeable units with low funding cost to solidify our cash position. Our liquidity is further backed by potential TWD 40 billion corporate bond and GDR. These measures are designed to inject fresh capital into the company, thus strengthening our cash reserves, ensuring that we are well prepared to meet financial challenges and capitalize on strategic opportunities in the future. Next is about our gross margin. GlobalWafers experienced a decline in both quarterly and annual gross margins. Could you please provide the insights into the reasons behind this decrease? Okay. Our 2026 gross margin stands at 37.4%, reflecting a 5.8% decline compared to the previous year. The primary factors influencing this shift include depreciation, about 1%, and the power cost nearly 2%, coupled with other minor factors accounting for the overall change of 5.8% in 2023. Our next one is about our operating expense. Our operating expense has increased 1.4% in 2023 and reached 11%. Please advise the reason. The increase mainly comes from the expense of exchangeable unit issuance, which is a proactive approach to efficiently manage the Siltronic shares we hold. The transaction helps GlobalWafers efficiently recycle its capital and optimize the funding cost in the implementation of our TWD 1 billion CapEx plan. Another one is about our debt ratio. GlobalWafers' current ratio and quick ratio have significantly dropped. Any background for this change? The decrease is mainly attributable to the following. One, bank deposits with maturity over 3 months are reclassified as other assets; the second, increase in our CapEx; the third is the partial repurchase of our existing USD 1 billion ECB due 2026. Additionally, the main reason for the increase in the short term debt is that the TWD 7.1, 3 year corporate bond, which will fall due in August 2024 and they are thus reclassified as current liabilities. Next question is about our exchangeable unit. Please remind us of GlobalWafers' plan of Siltronic shares it holds. And the recognition of the mark-to-market valuation of Siltronic holding in GlobalWafers' financial statements has historically introduced the P&L volatility. Does GlobalWafers still need to do the mark-to-market valuation on the Siltronic shares? Okay. GlobalWafers will hold 13.67% of Siltronic shares. In January, our German subsidiary priced EUR 345.2 million exchangeable units for the electronic shares we hold, which constitute about 10.3% of all the shares held by the group. The exchangeable units are guaranteed by GlobalWafers and are comprised of senior unsecured bonds due 2029, with 1.5% coupon per annum and the detachable warrants with the initial exchange price of EUR 111.34, representing a premium of 30% above the reference price. Through these issuance, we expect to retain future upside in Siltronic shares. The exchangeable units are also allowed for cheaper financing cost, which is opportunistic in current high interest rate environment. And there is no change to the accounting method of Siltronic shares we own. And such shares will continue to be classified as financial assets and remeasured as [ fair value ] through P&L. Okay. The next question is about our CapEx plan. Would you kindly share your capital expenditure and depreciation schedule with us? Based on the current plan, our CapEx spending schedule is 30% in 2023, 50% in 2024, 15% in 2025 and the remaining 5% will happen in 2026. In terms of depreciation as of the end of 2023, the total depreciation amounted to nearly TWD 7 billion, and the figure is expected to grow annually. Next one is about the outlook. What is the supply and demand outlook for semiconductor wafers? The outlook for the semiconductor wafer industry for 2024 through 2026 appears quite positive. Demand recovery is driven by AI, leading to overall wafer growth. The near term picture for the first half 2024 is seeing an inventory correction as customers are absorbing on-hand supply of wafers, placing pressures on ASPs. The situation is abated somewhat with our customers' long term agreements. The second half of 2024, we will see a rapid recovery, but on even product specific basis with Memory and logic leading, while some lag will be seen in the Analog and the power sectors. Okay. Please discuss the company's latest developments in the compound semiconductors and our game plan. How does the company's compound product differ from its competitors? GlobalWafers' SiC roadmap is aligned with our key customers. GlobalWafers has executive 8-inch, 4 and the wafering capabilities. The capacity ramp will be aligned with the consolidated demand in the long term agreements with our customers. Our 8-inch SiC samples are under qualification with customers since Q4 2023 and we'll continually work with our customer to support their 8-inch SiC product development. GlobalWafers' compound semiconductor unique strengths are demonstrated in the following. First, we have the financial strength to support the wideband gap development and the high volume manufacturing conversion. Our competitiveness is offered by more than 60 years of experience in developing semiconductor materials. Another extremely relevant and depreciating element appreciated by almost all of our customers is that GlobalWafers, we are the only non-Chinese SiC merchant supplier that is not part of SiC device production. Therefore, we do not compete with our customers. Another question, is about our greenfield fab GWA and the CHIPS Act status. Our flagship, 300-millimeter factory GWA is on schedule for simple capability by 2024 Q4 and the mass production ramp will be started in 2025 when the market is generally expected to be in full swing. As the first silicon wafer factory built in the U.S. in over 20 years, GWA Phase 1 will double the U.S.' supply of 12-inch wafers. In addition, it will be the only U.S. based supply of advanced node wafers to serve the customers. With the campus of 142 acres, GWA has sufficient space to support a total expansion of 6 spaces. About the CHIPS Act status, in February, we have submitted the report application and expect to receive feedback from the CHIPS Program Office in the following 1 or 2 months. And how many government funds does GWA foresee to receive? Given that GWA is America's only current silicon wafer investment for advanced chips and is essential in addressing a critical gap in the United States in order to build a truly resilient domestic semiconductor supply chain. As such, GWA investment is truly unique, and it's vital to national economy and security interests. While the application is still ongoing, we are diligently stay updated with the latest developments and maintaining close communication with the relevant authorities. And next one is about our Italy expansion. Please advise how many government incentives our Italy expansion will be granted? Our Italian site, [ SPA ], is expanding its 12-inch polished and epi production line to achieve the full 12-inch line integration in Italy. The Italian expansion has been formally included in the IPCEI, which stands for Important Projects of Common European Interest, and we expect to receive about EUR 100 million. The expansion is proceeding on track. Equipment will be moved in starting Q2 '24. Okay. The above is my answer to the frequently asked questions. Now I would like to invite C.W. Lee to take over and address the questions pertaining to SAS.

Thank you, Leah. Hello, everyone. I'm C.W. Next, I would like to explain SAS FAQ a little bit. First, a question is about Reinvestment company's performance. Please refer to our company material Page 17, which is group company's revenue and the EPS rate call. You can find that our revenue and EPS results are very good. GWC and Actron indicated consecutive 3 years of revenue growth. Actron and AWSC also showed 35% and 26% Y-o-Y growth, respectively, in 2023. We are expecting those companies will have further growth in 2024 as well. Next question is to ask solar business status and outlook. In worldwide, Chinese capacity oversupply for international solar market. In Taiwan, after presidential election, expecting Taiwan project demand will pick up in second quarter. Good thing is with the control of trade -- trade control to South Asia, Taiwan will be beneficial from the trade limitation. Regarding with outlook, our solar business will have double digit growth and the renewable retail business will grow 3x in 2024. Next question is about M10 Topcon production status. M10 Topcon lines are under pilot run and sample verification first quarter. Mass production schedule is third quarter this year. Topcon sale will generate more power per sale and the layer is a premium on ASP. As mentioned earlier, our solar business will have double digit growth in 2024. But headwinds also existing, like imported modules is a major concern that will cause a tremendous pressure on the demand of local products. The world is recognizing the importance of renewable energy and the solar is the main driving force. Long term development is evident, only short term volatility due to spec migration and the imbalance between supply and demand. But the momentum does exist. SAS' strategy is to focus on exploring niche applications and green energy trading to uncover new opportunities. SAS will be in a position to grow business with GWC's global presence, and we are positive with it. Also we have questions for TSC status and outlook. The full year operational outlook for 2024 at TSC appears promising, with an anticipated sequential growth trends throughout the year. In the second half, the commencement of 3-nanometer production and the initiation of shipments to overseas clients, coupled with contribution from new products is expected to have another growth in revenue. The current global customer base include more than 20 semiconductor panel and equipment manufacturers from Taiwan, Mainland China, the United States, Japan, Germany and other countries. And TSC is a scheduled to target to IPO this year as well. That's all for SAS FAQ part. Now I would like to hand over to Doris for next Q&A session. Doris, please.

Okay. Thank you, C.W. and Leah. Let me start from some questions I just received by RIN. So, let me start from here and I think it will take around 10 to 15 minutes, and then we'll move to audio questions from the audience. Okay. So first question is that, how is customer's inventory situation? Right now, customer's DOI are still -- some of the customers' DOI is still high, but a positive thing is that you can see that those DOIs are declining now. It's kind of mild. I mean, the speed is not really very fast, but most of the customers' DOI are improving. That means, they're declining. And that means, confirming that the actions have already been taken by our customers to bring the stock back to healthy region. But also, this speed -- the reduction speed is a little bit slower than our original expectation. That's the first question. And the second question is that, how's our outlook of the revenue this year 2024? We foresee a strengthened performance in the second half of 2024. I think that Q1 2024 is the bottom. Q2 will be flat or slightly better than Q1. Then starting from the second half, the market will be -- the demand -- the DOI -- customers' DOI keep improving and, new application, the loading rate utilization rate of our customer will be improving. So I think that the second half demand will be much better than the first half. So I think the overall our forecast is that a strengthened performance in the second half of 2024. We are foreseeing to see a very good -- much better performance in the second half 2024. So the revenue of 2024 is very likely that will be surpassing 2023. That's our view. And the next question is then, how about your view of the gross margin this year 2024? I think considering various dynamics and all the potential headwinds, we anticipate that our 2024 gross margin may be remain flat or experience slightly decrease compared to 2023. And main reasons of the gross margin down a little bit is, of course, because of the depreciation -- higher depreciation because of our expansion. So that's our view for gross margin. Next question is that, could you please share, the high bandwidth memory demand, HBM demand on AI server. How HBM demand on AI server affect semiconductor wafer demand? As AI server necessitates the crucial components like power management, memory, and high performance computing units, the construction of these components relies on actually not only advanced chips. These constructions, these products, service, need mature chips as well. So these dual requirement, both advanced and mature chips, these dual requirements contribute to an increased demand for semiconductor wafers. In addition, I think, AI ecosystem heavily depends on support from peripherals and various semiconductor components, further, intensifying the demand for silicon wafers and also compound wafer as well to meet diverse needs of AI systems. So I think, strong demand generated from AI servers, including HBM and other devices, definitely will enhance the demand for the whole industry. Not only advanced chips, but also the non-advanced mature chips as well. That's our view for AI -- for the impact from AI server -- AI demand. Okay. And then next question is that, how does the -- sorry. Yes. Next question is how's the GWC prepayment trend? Will it continue decline, in the near future? The answer for this is, I think for 2024 and 2025, the prepayment trend definitely will continue decline because -- for 2 reasons. One is that for -- the repayment is that as soon as our customer fulfill their liability of the prepayment, then we have to repay the prepayment. Most of our customers are -- honor -- they honor their LTA commitment, so we have to repay the prepayment as original plan as well. So this is the first reason. And the second reason is that, I think, 2024, of course, we are still working with some of our customers for new LTA. But I think that 2024, 2025, maybe, there will be not as many new LTAs concluded now like 2 years ago. So we will continue the repayment, but the new LTA, new prepayment will be slightly lower than before. That's why, I think, it will -- our prepayment will continue decline. That's our view in the near -- in the next 2 years. But starting from 2026, I think our prepayment will increase again, because market demand will keep growing and -- especially for advanced products, advanced application, silicon wafers and semiconductor wafers, I think, new LTA will be needed to lock up the advanced capacity for advanced units. So I think that starting from 2026, we will see more new LTAs and more new prepayment. Again, that's our view. And, okay. So the second the -- the next question is that, we have witnessed that that the last few quarters have been backend loaded and a drop in next month, which implies customers are struggling to fill their LTA. Which is, of course, true because, our customers -- many of our customers are trying to reabsorb, prioritize the consumption of their inventory first before they pull in new LTAs. So -- but LTA, there are a lot of commitments on the LTA. So we work very closely with our customers, try to work out as -- work around some solution with our customers together. We maximize our flexibility, and also we try to be as amenable as possible to work together with our customer, to work our solution. So, yes, some of our customers are struggling to fill the LTA, but because of the flexibility, we can swap products from this product to another product, which will -- which is very helpful for many of our customers. So the situation was tough last year. But starting from this year, I think, the situation will be getting better, especially starting from second half when the demand is stronger, utilization rate at our customers are improving. They will -- and their DOI is getting lower and lower. So I think the situation will be improved from the second half this year. Okay. Next. Yes. Okay. Next question is that, is that the right interpretation that and do you view moving toward more normal pattern later this year or this may persist in any signs they want to renegotiate? Of course, customers always try to get some, especially get some more flexibility like push out the delivery for couple of more quarters or change the products from product A to product B. I think, we always have -- we are -- and we are always open to have further discussion with our customer, trying to work out an acceptable solution for both parties. So I think this situation will be continuing for a while. Especially in 2024, we will do our best to work together with our customer to work out a solution. And next is that -- okay, next question is that, could you update your latest plans for capacity additions for the U.S. fab? And how much you would bring on and on what timing? Before that fab, do you have any other, debottlenecking and expansion ongoing? Yes. Our U.S. -- as Leah just explained, actually, our space in in Texas, Sherman for that -- for GWA is huge. So it's good for 6 phases expansion, but we are working on Phase 1 only. And as we always report to all of our shareholders and the market, our principle is that we will not kick off any expansion until we secure 80% of the LTA. So far we are working on Phase 1, and we will kick off Phase 2 when we have very smooth Phase 1. And also we get another 80% loading LTAs for Phase 2. So there is no firm timing when we're going to kick off the second phase, but, that's our principle. And also, you asked about debottlenecking. I would like to -- I think that's a very good question. I would like to highlight at this point that debottlenecking is not a key for us. For us, what's more important than debottlenecking is capability up. So that means that we are working on not only capacity up, but also capability up. As everyone knows very well that right now, the key driver, the real demand is for advanced products. Of course, there are some peripheral demand which mature -- wafers will -- mature design, mature wafers will be needed, which is very good. But the driver, the most important, the biggest, the fastest, the strongest driver is still for the advanced product. So how to use the tools -- existing tools to produce advanced products at a very good yield? That's our core -- that's our key task right now instead of capability -- capacity up. So instead of debottlenecking, our focus now is to improve our capability for all tools, all sectors. And, not only the capability of product, but also the capability of tools, including that we are going to implement many machine learning, AI and digital training that kind of a lot of special technology we call operation technology to improve our overall capability. And that's our focus now. Okay. And next question. Okay. What is M10 Topcon production line status 2024 outlook? I think, C.W. answered a little bit about this. M10 means dimension. So that means that the dimension is 182-millimeter times 182-millimeter. That's the dimension. And Topcon is the product, special technology. The key word for Topcon is N-type. It's a N-type process. In the past, PERC process P-type. So N-type wafer, the overall physics performance is better than, P-type because of the overall performance of -- the efficiency drop will be -- degradation will be slower than P-type. So overall performance will be better than P-type. And that's why the efficiency can be as high as 25% or higher. And we will -- we are doing the sample submission right now. And starting from Q2 or Q3 this year, we will move to mass production. That's our current status. I think, it's very likely that starting from 2025, we will convert 100% of our M10 production line from PERC to Topcon, that's our strategy. Okay. Next is share the outlook of 300-millimeter and 200-millimeter demand, respectively. Definitely, 300-millimeters demand is stronger than 200-millimeter. It's not only for 2024. That will be the situation for the next several years. I think 300-millimeters growth rate will be much faster than 200-millimeters. But 200-millimeter will remain flat. I don't think that 200-millimeter will drop like 150 that rapidly. But, 200-millimeter right now worldwide capacity is about around 7 million wafers. 200-millimeter, 7 million wafer a month. That's current worldwide capacity. And this capacity will remain and increase a little bit, maybe about 10% in the next several years. So around from 7 million to 7.7 million in the next several years, but that will be remain for several more years, we'll state. But from 300-millimeter's viewpoint, 300-millimeter current capacity is about 7 million to 8 million -- close to 8 million wafer a month right now. I think it will be ramp up to over 9 million wafer in very short period of time. Maybe 2, 3 years we'll be over 9 million wafer capacity. So the reason for this is because the market demand most of the new design, especially for AI, high computing tech -- high computing -- high performance computing, all those advanced applications are designed on 300-millimeter because of the volume, the scale of the demand. So that's our answer for this question. I think that's all we have received. I have already answered all the questions received. So, I think, I would like to open the, audio question now, if any.

[Operator Instructions] The first one will be Donnie from Nomura.

Donnie, I cannot hear you yet.

Donnie, please accept the host invitation to unmute your microphone.

Before I ask the question, can I have some housekeeping related -- keeping questions on the numbers you just mentioned? I'm not sure if you have mentioned about the gross margin differences in first quarter last year versus third quarter last year now down from 36.6% to 34.5%. So what's the major factors if you perhaps compare with those 2 quarters?

Okay. Yes. That's a very good question, Donnie. 2 key questions. Number one is depreciation. You know that, we started a new expansion, new capacity, especially in Korea, Taiwan, Japan. So we already started the CapEx and depreciation. So our depreciation increased quite significantly starting from Q4 last year. So that's the number one reason. And the second reason is, energy costs as well. Because starting from Q4, the temperature becomes low, so many European, European or American, the winter -- those countries, I think, the energy cost is much higher than Q3. Q3 energy cost was much -- because of the weather is mild, so no matter it's Asia countries or American countries, pretty okay. But Q2 was tough. Q2, because of summer, like, Japan, Malaysia, these countries' energy cost is very high. So, I mean, overall, Q4 energy cost is another reason why its gross margin is lower than, Q2 -- Q3 last year.

Understood. And another one I missed is the CapEx distribution 2023 and 2026. Could you repeat again?

The CapEx, yes, Leah?

Yes. The CapEx. You mean the spending schedule, right?

Yes.

Okay. 50% of the CapEx will happen in 2023 and 15% in 2024, and the remaining 5% in 2026.

So change it. Sorry, sorry.

15% in 2020.

5-0 2024.

Yes. Sorry. My math is not so good. Yes.

So, Donnie, let me repeat this one again. The peak is this year, 2024. That's the peak. 50% of the CapEx will be 2025. We'll spend in 2025. And next year will be just about 15%, and the following year another lower -- about 5%. Right?

Sorry. 30% in 2023, 50% in 2024, 15% in 2025, and the remaining 5% will happen in 2026.

Understood. Yes. So, I think the first question for me is the, Chairlady, could you could you comment on, what kind of normalized gross margin or the sales trend in this year? And, in terms of LTA coverage, I think you mentioned about some prepayment decrease in 2024 and 2025, and will be back to 2026. And how about the LTA coverage rate in the coming years?

Yes. Gross margin, I think, I answered one of the questions as well. This year, gross margin will be flat -- I mean, Y-o-Y will be flat or slightly lower than last year, 2023. And main reason that this year's gross margin could be slightly lower than 2023 is because of higher depreciation as well. And also, I think that energy cost this year, some countries, including Taiwan, energy cost will be higher than last year. In general, Korea, Taiwan, Japan as well, energy cost will be higher than previous -- higher than 2023. So still same 2 questions, higher depreciation and higher electricity costs. So these 2 are the main reason that why this year the overall gross margin may be flat or slightly slower -- slightly lower than last year. That's our view. And for the LTA coverage, I think same as before, 300-millimeter coverage is still much higher than 200-millimeter. And small diameter is very minimal. The LTA coverage is almost finished. We still have some, but very few.

How about, do you have any, like, sales growth target this year?

Sales growth?

Yes.

Revenue growth?

Yes.

I think we will have some growth of -- I think this year, 2024's revenue, it's very likely to be flat or just slightly higher than 2023. And the main growth will be from 300-millimeter epi and compound, so these 3 -- and float zone, these 4 items. 300-millimeter polish, 300-millimeter epi -- 300-millimeter epi is number one. And the second one is 300-millimeter polish wafer. And compound, compound when I say compound, I mean silicon carbide and gallium nitride. We will have more gallium nitride starting from this year. And float zone remain very high very -- so far it's still 100% utilized. But UTR is still 100%. But, our capacity this year is higher than last year, I mean, float zone. So these are the key driver. Why this year? Maybe it will be higher than last year revenue wise. And the weak one is still small diameter. 150 is still very, very weak this year.

And a follow-up on the CapEx distribution. So you mentioned about 50% CapEx will be spent in 2024. But previously, you also mentioned about there are some push out in terms of equipment moving. For 50%, 2024 looks like still pretty high, I mean, compared with others. So just curious, what's your previous plan in terms of your CapEx distribution in 2023 and 2026?

Our original plan is 2023 should be higher, but we push out from 2023 to 2024. So we already push out. And then, we also -- we push out a little bit from 2024 to 2025. And that's why -- in the past, I never said that 2026 we'll still have 5% CapEx spending. But the reason that we push out is that because of some soft demand we noticed from our customers. So we push out. We adjust the tool pooling schedule a little bit. So that's why we push out a little bit. So you see 50% seems high, but if you check original plan, I think last year was -- 2023 was supposed to be much higher than 30%, but we already push out around 10% to 2024.

And last one is regarding to SAS solar business. How do you compare the solar business trend this year versus GlobalWafers business? Which one would be performing relatively better? And also you mentioned about you are migrating to N-type panels. Would that have any impact to the potential inventory write off risk on the existing P-type production units or production capacity?

Yes. That's a very good question. I think that first of all, GlobalWafers' growth this year will be, maybe will be lower than non-GlobalWafers -- I mean, from SAS' viewpoint, because SAS' revenue comes from 3 key components. One is GlobalWafers, and the second is SAS solar or SAS renewable energy business. And the third one is the other customers we invest and we consolidate it. So GlobalWafer (sic) [ GlobalWafers ] this year's revenue growth will be quite -- I think it will be single digit. That's -- GlobalWafer next year will be much higher than -- the growth rate next year for GlobalWafer will be much higher than this year. But this year will be -- compared with 2023, it will be a single digit growth flat or single digit growth this year. That's our view. But on the other hand, if you look into SAS. SAS -- I think SAS last year, 2023, SAS' revenue in -- renewable energy revenue last year was the bottom, and this year should be much better than -- should be better than last year, I mean, our renewable energy's business. And, the other group companies like, AWSC, TSC, and Actron, the other companies -- actually, these companies are growing. The percentage of their revenue growth is higher than GWC. Already, of course, GWC scale is much bigger than those company, but they -- but the growth rate wise, revenue -- Y-o-Y growth rate wise, I think AWSC, Actron, and TSC growth rate maybe will be higher than GWC. So I mean, if you if you check the GWC and non-GWC revenue growth rate Y-o-Y, I would say that, SAS Y-o-Y growth will be higher than GWC growth rate. I hope I made myself clear.

Yes.

Thank you, Donnie.

How about the N-type and P-type panel production.

Yes. As I said that we are going to migrate 100% of our production from P-type PERC to N-type Topcon, 100% convert from 2025, that's the plan. And, the question we ask is extremely important. That means that, how much -- maybe is there any tool write off P-type PERC [ ROA ]? Yes. That's very good question. And, I think it's very minimal. And the reason for that is that we have already made some special reserve last year. And also, some of the tools -- when we -- before we invested tool several years ago for the M10 Topcon PERC we have already considered the flexibility to convert to Topcon. So it's not 100% ROA. It's not just scrap the whole thing and install a new line for Topcon. No. Some of the tools already are convertible from P to N, so it's very minimum. The impact from this one is very minimal. I hope my answer is clear.

Understood. So it sounds like the profitability of solar business should be recovering quite significant 1.4. Right?

I don't know how to define significant. But, another potential impact uncertainty is import. You know, 2023, there was a big import. A big amount of module -- solar module was imported to Taiwan from the third countries. And I don't know what's the trend this year. If the import, if the volume of the import -- imported solar module is still -- if the volume is still high then maybe it's not easy to keep the local domestic Made in Taiwan modules' price reasonable. Maybe we have to -- you know, because of price competition. So that's another uncertainty. So I keep monitoring this. But, in general, I think it's still a very promising stuff promising business. As I said, that COP28 -- the whole demand, under underlined underscored by COP28. The goal, the resolution of COP28, which was just concluded in Dubai a couple months ago, the conclusion was by 2030, 3x renewable energy installation and 2x efficiency improvement. So that's that means a lot. So that means that we don't -- it's not only to expand our capacity, but also we have to improve our efficiency. That's the goal as well.

And last question comes from [ Bruce ].

So I want to ask about the gross margin. I mean, I'm a little bit surprised. Last year, your gross margin is about 37%, right? Fourth quarter is, like, 35 point something. And the first half of this year, given the current outlook, I don't really think you can have certain margin expansion. But assuming that you can deliver, like, 37% gross margin for the whole year this year, which means that you have, like, pretty meaningful gross margin improvement in the second half. In the second half of this year, I don't think utility cost is going down. The USA depreciation also goes up. Right? How do you -- what kind of -- what are the main reason for you to see some margin expansion in the second half?

Yes. I think gross margin improvement, including volume, so as long as our volume increase, we will see some improvement, especially product mix will be very different. Bruce, you know that in the past, GWC's -- one of GWC's weakness is that we always -- we don't have enough 300-millimeter capacity to deliver to our customers. But now after expansion, it will become our strengths. Because that, we will have -- not only have enough capacity to deliver to our 300-millimeter customer, but also all the expansions are for advanced products. So that means that from advanced products -- the ratio of the capacity -- advanced product capacity's viewpoint, our ratio will be very -- will be much better than before, so much better than before, because of the expansion. It's all the expansions for advance. So I'm very confident that starting from second half our product mix will be different from before. Then that's where I think that -- of course, we will have some cost pressure because depreciation is higher than before, but the problem is it will be different as well.

But if that is the case for U.S. capacity, which is going to be meaningfully ramped up next year, we can see further margin expansion. The U.S. is mostly for the [ wafers ], right?

No. Actually, we have big expansion -- we have expansion in Japan as well, which already now is in the qualification status already. And that's -- most of that is for advanced 300-millimeter epi wafers. So U.S., yes, you are right. U.S., we will we will submit our sample -- the sample out qualifications, sample out will be in Q4 this year. So there will be not much revenue contribution from our American -- new American operation this year. But, Asia sites, like Taiwan -- so we have expansion in Taiwan as well. It's a debottlenecking and brownfield, a small expansion, which have already been completed much earlier than the other sites. And then the second biggest expansion is in Japan, MJL. That one already, finished the expansion and we are in the qualification phase right now. So I'm expecting that we will see some new capacity from Asia from second half this year. That also will not be from U.S.

I know. But the point -- the question I asked was that for 2025, right, the bigger expenditures in U.S., which supposedly to give you a even better product mix. So can we expect the margin expansion for next year?

Yes. That that is definitely right. So the more expansion will be from -- more capacity availability will be from 2025 for -- most of that will be for advanced and 80% covered by LTA. Over 80% covered by LTA. Thank you very much, Bruce. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, we would like to express our sincere appreciation to all of you for your valuable participation today. The earnings call concludes now. Thank you and have a wonderful evening.

Thank you very much. Have a good day.