GMM Pfaudler Limited (505255) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call for GMM Pfaudler Limited. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ravin Kanabar from GMM Pfaudler Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Alrik. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to all of you into the Q1 FY '27 earnings call of GMM Pfaudler Limited. The earnings presentation was uploaded on the stock actings yesterday and is also available on our website. So all of you are as to go through it. All the management today, we have with us our Managing Director, Mr. Tarak Patel; our Group CEO, Mr. Gregory Gelhaus; our Group CFO, Mr. Alexander Poempner; our Deputy CFO, Mr. Ankit Nayyar; our Company Secretary, Ms. Mittal Mehta. We will give you a brief overview of the performance of the -- after which we will get into the Q&A. Before we begin with the overview, a brief disclaimer. The presentation, which we are posting on the stock exchanges and also on our website, including our decisions that will happen now -- may have forward-looking statements regarding our business prospects and profitability, which are subject to several risks and uncertainties. Factual results could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Tarak Patel to provide you with a brief overview of the performance of the company forward. Over to you, Tarak.

Thank you, Raveen. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss our financial performance for the June quarter ended and equally important, the strategic transformation that is underway across our organization. [indiscernible] GMM Pfaudler, we successfully transferred ourselves from being a leading Indian engineering company into one of the world's largest process equipment platforms through the acquisition of the Global Formula Business and the series of complementary technology acquisitions. With that foundation firmly established -- the next phase of our journey. This phase is about GMM Pfaudler taking a decisive step in its growth journey by evolving into a single, globally integrated organization. Our customers operate worldwide and increasingly expect the same advanced technology, consistent quality and support wherever they are located. To meet their expectations and accelerate our ambitions, we are organizing our business into 4 distinct global divisions, each with a clear accountability and a sharp focus on the industries that they serve. For the last year, we have undertaken one of the most significant organizational transformation in our history. Historically, our businesses operate through geographical structures.with India and international businesses functioning independently. While this approach was appropriate immediately after the acquisition, as it allows the business to stabilize and -- the customer relationships to continue. It was never intended to be the long-term operating model. Today, we have evolved beyond that stage. We have reorganized the company into 4 distinct global divisions replacing the traditional geographic structure. These divisions are CRT, corrosion resistance technologies, PPT, process Performance Technologies, HET, heavy engineering technologies, PFT process -- systems technologies. Each division -- truly under dedicated leadership with clear accountability for technology development, product strategy, customer engagement and operational excellence. This is far more than an organizational change. It represents a fundamental shift in the way we go to market. Instead of managing similar businesses independently across the different regions, we are now bringing together global expertise under one technology platform. This enables us to leverage engineering knowledge across geographies, accelerate product innovation, improve customer responsiveness, strengthen ties and allocate capital more effectively. Most importantly, it creates a single global organization with common objectives rather than multiple regional organization pursuing independent priorities. As I said earlier, our customers increasingly operate globally, they expect partners who can provide consistent technology solutions across markets. Our new operating model positions us much better to meet these expectations. The journey will take time, but we believe it creates a much stronger foundation for sustainable long-term value creation. It also helps our capital market stakeholders to better monitor the underlying business drivers across each of our business divisions, providing greater clarity on our overall business. In line with this vision, we have further strengthened our leadership team by establishing clearly defined roles and responsibilities across our businesses. Mr. Gregory Gelhaus has been appointed as group Chief Executive Officer and will lead the cultural and organizational transformation required to build a truly global organization. This leadership structure will help institutionalize a global mindset, strengthen accountability and aligned performance across the organization. It will also enable us to build a robust leadership pipeline, as effective succession planning and create global centers of excellence support by shared service capabilities. Ultimately, our strategy is to -- we have leadership across our process technology businesses, expanding customer relationships through broader the portfolio and driving operational excellence across each division. By capitalizing on growth opportunities more effectively with unified global when we deliver sustainable, profitable and create long-term value for all our stakeholders. The new global structure allows each division to focus on its own strategic priorities while unlocking meaningful value across the group. As we move forward, you should increasingly view the geographically managed organization, but as a global technology company with integrated capabilities, deep domain expertise and a clear road map for long-term value creation. With that, let me now hand over the call to Greg.

Thanks, Tark. As Tarak rightly mentioned, this is a transformational year for GMM. With the 4 new divisions, our focus is to bring the full strength of each technology to every market, deepen relationships with existing customers and winning new ones diversify and expand beyond traditional chemical and pharmaceutical markets and enter a broader range of high-growth end markets. With this new structure, decisions are made once and globally, we respond more quickly with the same high standard delivery wherever customers operate. Our focus also remains on cost whereby each vertical rationalizes its cost structure and global footprint to drive lasting efficiencies and a more competitive cost base. Hence, we see this as a very positive change and I look forward to driving our progress in the months and years ahead. I would like to touch upon our quarterly performance. We closed the quarter with a record order backlog of representing an increase of approximately 20% year-on-year, supported by a healthy order intake of over INR 1,007 crores during the quarter. It is important to view this backlog in the right context. Nearly 30% of the order intake in Q1 last year comprised of multiyear projects whereas the current order book is largely made up of projects with execution cycles of 10 to 12 months. As a result, a substantial portion of both our operating backlog and the orders secured this quarter to be executed within FY '27, providing strong revenue visibility and confidence in our execution outlook. Now let me take you through our division-wise performance. CRT corrosion-resistant technologies, our CRT division reported revenues of INR 466 crores a representing a growth of 10% year-on-year. Order intake during the quarter stood at INR 502 crores, representing a growth of 23% year-on-year. CRT continues to maintain its leadership position in equipment with the industry's largest installed base. The business also benefits from a large aftermarket and service franchise, providing recurring revenues and healthy customer engagement. Demand from the core pharmaceutical and chemical industries remained stable during the quarter. Now for PPT, performance -- Process Performance Technologies. The division reported revenue of INR 255 crores, growing 23% year-on-year. Order intake stood at INR 367 crores, growing 64% year-on-year. PPT -- platform across mixing filtration and driving and sealing technologies. The division continues to benefit from expanding customer adoption across pharmaceuticals, food and beverage and other process industries while growing capabilities continue to strengthen our market position. HET, Heavy Engineering Technologies, the ATC division reported revenue of INR 74 crores, which is flat year-on-year. Order intake during the quarter stood at INR 58 crores, which is increasing more than 700% year-on-year. HET -- position in manufacturing large critical process equipment catering to energy, petrochemical and industrial applications. We also remain well positioned to benefit from the increasing investments across defense, nuclear, fertilizer and other infrastructure-led sectors over the medium term. Now PST, Process System Technologies. Our PST division reported revenue of INR 131 crores registering a growth of 46% year-on-year. Order intake during the quarter stood at INR 80 crores, whereas the order intake for Q1 FY '26 was 363 crores which was represented by 1 large defense order. The division focuses on engineered process systems and skins for high-specification applications. It continues to benefit from opportunities across semiconductor and manufacturing, defense and pharmaceutical sectors where customers increasingly seek integrated process solutions. To sum up, GMM is entering a fundamentally different phase of its journey. The last few years were about building a global platform. The next few years will be about extracting greater value from that platform. We believe that our new technology-led organization, disciplined balance sheet approach and focus on earnings quality. It will position GMM Pfaudler for stronger and more sustainable value creation in the years ahead. I'd like to invite Alex, our Group CFO, to take you through our financial performance.

Thank you, Greg. Good afternoon, everyone. As highlighted by Tarak and Greg, this quarter marked an important milestone in our reporting journey. In line with our new organization structure -- putting the business to our 4 global technology divisions. This reporting framework better reflects how we manage the business internally and provide investors with improved transparency into the underlying performance of each technology platform. Coming to -- financial performance. During the quarter, the company recorded a total order intake of INR 1,007 crores, which is flat year-on-year. Consolidated revenue for the quarter stood at INR 925 crores, which is -- a growth of 16% on a year-on-year basis. The EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 94 crores. On a year-on-year basis, EBITDA was lower by 7%, primarily reflecting continued pricing pressure and evolving business mix and investments towards strengthening our global organization structure. However, in a quarter-on-quarter basis, EBITDA improved by 25%. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 22 crores, which more than doubled year-on-year. Our consolidated order backlog -- stood at INR 9 crores, increasing 20% year-on-year and 4% quarter-on-quarter, providing healthy revenue visibility for the coming quarters. We have realized that while he has confidence in our long-term strategy, many of you would like to get greater clarity on how the acquisitions made over the past 3 years after translating into shareholder value. Therefore, I would like to address some of these questions today. On acquisitions, we look at our group structure today. There are multiple acquisitions done across different countries -- initially, it is huge as the organization has become too complex. I would like to reassure everyone that these acquisitions were never undertaken simply to increase scale size of the company. Each acquisition was made with a clearly defined strategic objective, either to add a new technology, expand into an adjacent process solution, strengthen our engineering capabilities or provide access to new industries and customers. Collectively, these acquisitions -- as from a predominantly glass line equipment company into a diversified global process technologies platform. More importantly, the acquisitions phase is now largely behind us. Our focus has shifted to integrate these businesses. The organizational restructuring that we announced is the direct outcome of this transition. Instead of operating acquired businesses independently or through regional structures, we have reorganized our sales into 4 global technology divisions. This allows every technology worldwide to operate under 1 leadership team, creating significantly greater accountability, technology focus and customer alignment. The objective is straightforward: one technology, one strategy, one global organization -- and how we intend to unlock the full value of our acquisitions. Regarding integration and synergies, another important question to receive is whether the acquisitions are actually creating synergies. Immediately, after acquiring the global -- business, our priority was business continuity. During that period, we intentionally launched regional organization to continue operating independently while preserving customer relationships leadership teams and operational stability. Now that integration has made, we are entering the next phase. Our new organization enable us to leverage common engineering expertise across regions, improved cross selling, bridging technologies, aligned product development globally and optimized manufacturing resources. This is where we to increasingly emerge over the coming years. Our focus is on integrating these technologies, customers and capabilities. Another question with regard to our debt structure. And therefore, you have sought greater clarity on our balance sheet. The acquisition of the Global Partner Business was transformational in nature and required leverage. However, our capital allocation philosophy has always remained disciplined. Over the last few years, we have consistently worked towards reducing leverage while continuing to invest selectively in high-return businesses and strategic capabilities. Importantly, many of our subsequent acquisitions have been relatively small, technology-driven transactions rather than large transformational acquisitions. Physicians have largely been funded through internal accruals and prudent financing structures while maintaining balance sheet discipline. Going forward, our priorities remain clear: continue strengthening the balance sheet, improve maintain disciplined capital allocation. pursue only high strategic opportunities that strengthen our technology portfolio. Growth and financial prudence will continue to go hand in hand. As we mentioned in our previous earnings call, we intend to repay some debt at the group level. And will repay an amount of approximately EUR 7 million of debt by the end of Q2 in this financial year. With many of our large strategic acquisitions now behind us, our focus is to strengthen the balance sheet. Our improvement cash generation and disciplined working capital management are expected to adequately support our operating requirements while enabling faster delivery -- at the same time, we are also evaluating refinancing opportunities, stock cost and debt maturity profile. Overall, we believe we are moving in the right direction and expect to see a gradual but meaningful improvement in our leverage metrics over the coming quarters. Another important question we get is benefits translating or flowing down to the PAT level. This is an area where we want -- where we might expect improvement. Following the acquisition of the Global business, we inhabited a large international organizational structure, comprising multiple legal entities across several countries. While this structure provides global reach, it also resulted in additional financing costs, overlapping administrative structures and to more complex tax and corporate framework. As a result, the conversion from EBIT to P&G has not reflected the full operating strength of the business. Addressing this has become one of our key management priorities. We are already simplifying our global structure, rationalizing legal entities to appropriate streamlining reporting clients and optimizing the corporate architecture. These initiatives are expected to improve financial efficiency over time by improving our structure and enhancing EBIT to PLC conversion. This is not a 1 quarter initiative. It is a multi-quarter value creation program that will strengthen the quality of our earnings. Overall, while certain end markets continue to remain dynamic. Our diversified technology portfolio, balanced orderable and strong global presence positions us well to capture future growth opportunities. As our integration initiatives continue to progress, we remain focused on improving operational efficiency, strengthening the cash generation and enhancing the overall quality of earnings. With that, I would like to hand over to Raveen.

Thank you [indiscernible].

[Operator Instructions]. The first question comes from the line of Sameer Thakur with Ambit Capital.

So my first question is, are there any signs of recovery in traditional end markets like chemical and pharma? And has the competitive intensity begun to ease on here? Also, if you can comment on regional commentary by end markets, that would be useful.

Yes. So yes, on our traditional markets in India, outside of India and maybe Gregory can speak a little bit about the international business, but we do see a significant improvement in the pharma business here in India. So we are seeing a lot of action in pharma, in Hyderabad, EDMO. So that's driving a lot of investments, and that's helping us build backlog in our local Indian last fine business. And we expect also that this will continue. So definitely compared to about 12 months ago, the positive shift in terms of the glass line business here in India and the more environments, more opportunities and faster kind of conversion from opportunities to actual orders, right? So Q1 was strong and Q2 also to strong data in respective talking now of our [indiscernible] impact our TRP business, obviously. And from a PTC perspective, which also caters to our traditional market where we have our businesses like filtration, mix in memory separation and sealing go up also linked to pharmaceuticals here in India. So there we have seen a lot of also attraction as well. So pharma is doing quite well. Chemical unfortunately in India has still remained flat. There are a few projects here in there, but nothing significant structurally has changed over the last few years. However, we move here that volumes are back almost of our clients and customers. And obviously, that would maybe lead to more investment in the next few quarters, right? So from an India perspective, our traditional markets are definitely better right now than they were about 12 months ago. Very good review for the international market.

So international, I think it's a similar trend to what you've heard from Takar similar situation. We see from the pharma sector internationally, we do see a number of opportunities. It is improving. There, and we see that both -- particularly when we look at Europe and in Americas. So again, as Tarak said, that's our traditional glass line business, but also our PPT division where we see definitely improved opportunities in the pharmaceutical sector. I think chemical is the same as what you heard in India. Chemicals remains a challenge. We don't see a strong change in this quarter that we just finished, particularly in Europe, it remains very challenging from the chemical sector. So I would say, all in all, what you heard from Tarak and myself in terms of pharmaceuticals, consistent globally as well as in the chemical sector.

Okay. That's helpful. I have one more question. I think there is some decline in margins for Indian business, the stand-alone business. So any reason for that? And how should we think about it going forward?

Yes. So looking at the India business and maybe I have Ankit also step in a little bit here. Here, we have, obviously, a very large component of growth, which has come from our HCP business, as you know, HCP business is an India related business. It takes us to oil and has petrochemicals. And now we have obviously growth in near and we're getting into power sector as well, right? So a lot of growth opportunities with a and an even stronger opportunity pipeline, which we believe will help us obviously give backlog for the next few quarters and maybe even years. So that's a strong area of growth for us. And obviously, that comes with large projects. And again, the strategy has been to obviously get into short-term kind of industry create TDRs. We have recently been approved by ERS or Duplex [indiscernible] and even air heat exchangers. We have recently grown into power last year, we boost the [indiscernible] segment and obviously, we -- power approaches as all segments that we are going to on top of the HCT or [indiscernible] to the Middle East market, which is the oil and gas Middle East market. And we've seen some traction there as well as with some of the geography are reordering after obviously, the recent time of event there. So we've seen orders point and some other areas of the mid lease, right? So that business in the past -- business, but in business is also maybe slightly different in zones or the processes, margin growth and how long it takes. So you will see some kind of, I would say, change when the product mix in India changes between the 3 businesses. However, having said that, I think the improvement program in terms of margins across all our businesses out of India is ongoing. Obviously, the idea is to bring it back to a stable level. With the market improving pricing will also improve. So we've seen with the utilization, better revenue, we will see some of this getting absorbed, right? So all in all, with the backlog that we have, the order book that we had in Q1 and also some of the order book that has come in Q2, we are quite confident that India is on the strong part of growth. So I think that will continue. And I think obviously, recovery of margins is expected and improving over the next few quarters.

Yes. Just in addition to what Tarak mentioned, we are also investing in cost as you would have had have invested in the new organization. So we are investing in people and that's why we see a bit in margin. We good investments happening for the releases we can see an upward trajectory going forward.

Okay. So we should expect sequential improvement -- further improvement in margins going forward? That's right.

So I think, we -- in the outlook, and we kind of mentioned we don't want to specify anything right one or right now in terms of what is the final expectation. But obviously, compared to previous year, we definitely expect improvement across all our businesses, and we are working hard to base on cost and improve margins.

Okay. That's helpful. If I can squeeze in one more. Just obviously, organizational structure, there is a very good state. But can you just explain what were the bottlenecks before this stage, any examples of that? That would be helpful.

So I think both of the [indiscernible] maybe from the past. I think the regional structure presented may be businesses to work together and work closer together. People will intensify after regional numbers and regional kind of targets today. The entire -- were has the same target. So every interposes in that work in [indiscernible] is that patent in the U.S., in Europe or in India, they have the same target for profitability, right? So it is everybody's best interest, everybody is clear and aligned in terms of what the equity are -- exactly the KPIs, right? So -- KPI, and if they want to extract mat heating opportunities that explore our install from India or low-cost country, deputing to get multiple different options in terms of our plan to win more business, right? So the dry in the incentive program now aligned even test and that, I think, is going to be a big change while geographically, the an independent entity and more coming to it on local geographic kind of KPIs rather than global PS. Alex?

Maybe to add to that, I think what we see now in the new structure. As Tarak said, we have a globally aligned team by technology vision, which nails, as was addressed in the beginning remarks, faster decision-making, but also as part aligned around KPIs and strategic priorities for the vision. So as we move forward, as our customers are demanding, as we said in our opening remarks, they want us to be able to spur them anywhere around the world, and we're better able to do that now quicker and more efficiently in the new structure. So that's difference from the organizational setup in the past, and we believe it's going to help us significantly moving forward.

And just one more point on this is that we have brought in also the right talent. We run these verticals or some have been internal -- some have been external in the case of HEP, obviously, the strategy of a heavy engineering topical, it's very different from our -- client CRD vertical, right? So things allow verticals to really focus on their own strategy, their own kind of operational experience every not did not be taken under the same brush, right? We test enough opportunity to create and build their own strategy, right? And I think that's very, very important. So I think that's an additional benefit to in change that we have done.

[Operator Instructions]. The next question comes from the line of Praveen Kumar with Equitas Capital Advisors.

Congratulations on a decent set of numbers and more importantly, for taking first steps to improve the disclosure, good on that part.. I had a couple of questions. One was on the -- if you can give us some clarity on the margin profile and the low seas of the 4 divisions, which are broken out into? And also associated with that, if you could give us a sense of which of these segments do you think are closer to steady state margins today and which are kind of away from that? And also if you can give us some sense of how do we track that the divisions which are away from the steady-state aspiration margins. How do we keep a track of when they are closer to that what is your aspecting on this? That's my first question.

So I think on a margin perspective, let me obviously, as a company, we obviously have always still like a 15% EBITDA margin for the company is something that we aspire to do, right? That should be something in our business and how kind of area where you operate and the technology we have that something that we should have, and obviously, we bring from there, right? So currently, the businesses and the verticals that now we have created, somewhat time growth has around that kind of margin profile. There's obviously different initiatives we gain those things to improve margins over time. But I will say that they will be around that range. Obviously, businesses which are more existing this year at longer, higher gestation, more than add because we give profit guidance could be a higher margin versus maybe just a stand-alone equipment, right? That's not always the case. And generally, I think as a margin profile, I think, over time, we will be able to probably build some more thesis. But for right now, I think it's important that they are along the same and the idea of this fees is to grow margin, grow revenue. Some of them will obviously need investments because we need to add people. We need to add organizations because they are high growth verticals. So that is also coming, right? So I don't have specific time or I can't differentiate them very topically and there may be great average new to something on the vertical biology.

No, I think you covered it, Tarak, I think it's -- the goal is for us, as Tarak said, we have management teams specifically focused on each technology provision that we have now. they have a part of their goal is to drive top line performance. But equally, if not more important, the bottom line performance. So we have a number of initiatives to improve our financial performance. for each of the divisions and of course, for the company overall. So we will continue to drive that. And we have different opportunities in different divisions to improve performance, and we'll keep focusing on that.

So we will improve the margins. We have, of course, some units which already are significantly higher margins. would also see the announcement that we made of the lab latest acquisitions. So we will work on this. And of course, as mentioned, we mentioned the 15% EBITDA margin, that's a minimum target [indiscernible].

Understood. My second question was again on the margin trajectory. You're talking about -- in the past, you have talked about that aspirationally, margins should exceed 15% or higher medium term, right? So I just wanted to understand from spanning from where we are today from current levels, what kind of cadence of margin improvement should we expect? I understand that -- this is not a company where we should be looking at a quarterly margins as you go off anything. But how should we -- over what time frame do you think we can get to those aspiration margins of 15% and beyond. And what kind of cadence can we expect in this? And what would be the likely trigger apart from mix change?

So I think directionally, we are moving in the right direction. I think we have multiple different initiatives to improve revenue to grow revenue when we improve margins, right? So let's leave it at that. There is definitely opportunities we know these opportunities. We know that where we have high cost, we know where we don't take the well for the opportunities across the regions, right? So there are multiple things ongoing. They're working on debt, we are looking at restructuring. There's a lot of opportunity that we're working on, right? So we are going in the right direction. I think the focus on the less maybe paint some kind of momentum, the order intake in Q2, and then we meet again next quarter, maybe hopefully will have a much clearer picture in terms we were going to pay up and on the future groups. Maybe just to -- we already have several units which achieved these margins or even higher margins. What we currently is tapping on is that we have 1, 2, 3 units, which are really underpin and which were the margin down. So we are focusing on this, and we just oadlymentioned it, we have measures in face. Will approve this unit and you will directly see an uplift in EBITDA margin for the Q2.

Tarak, I appreciate your response. The reason we're looking for -- I was looking for more of a guidance of margin is because, see, as you, yourself, you and your team referred to the investment in employees, et cetera, it's already showing up in the numbers side because employee costs are up significantly, both stand-alone as well as control, right? So we are already seeing the costs upfront. So it would be useful to actually get a sense over what time frame are we even -- I understand there are multiple triggers for this margin improvement, but it would be useful to get some sense that over what time frame should we expect that?

Yes, I think there is a lot of initiatives that we're working on, the time frame, again, we are not somebody is going to wait on a long period of time, we are actioning a lot of these -- along with the global transformation. We have a stronger team today. We have now a confidence of sees who are driving cost and strategy within those organizations and making tool where they need to make the call, that's happening. Alex and Anke are working on financial kind of area has been grouped up the structuring, borrowings, et cetera, even the cash management. So we are working across the group business is looking a little bit better again. kind of based on time of consistency we have gave a few quarters of consistent results, and then we can sit on and talk about margins. And then I think you guys also have in terms of what we're trying to do. So let's put the balance -- the work is going in -- having said, there is improvement possible, and we will improve, and that's one way. So I think that will give us a direction in terms of our margins over the next few quarters.

The next question comes from the line of Sagar Shah with Spark PWM.

And thank you to the management of GMM Pfaudler who actually first and disclose the segmental results actually as what our entire street was asking for. Now my first question, sir, was related to -- follow-up on the previous participant question. You highlighted that there was some uptick in the employee expenditure you are realigning the entire team for different segments now actually that you have highlighted in this quarter. Now apart from the sales teams, I wanted to know from Park as well as Greg actually. But what exactly are we doing to strategize actually our sales team to strategize our operations even geographically so that actually we acquire greater market share in the segments actually that we have actually highlighted in this particular presentation. Part of the sales since what exactly measures are we taking to actually acquire greater market share also in that in turn will actually will be a margin enhancer in the medium to long term margin. That is my first question.

So I think before I hand over to Greg, I think a couple of things that I would just want to highlight, obviously, Greg has been part of the company now for a year, and we run the global transformation program. So we the business. You have a very close understanding of the business. He's been involved in multiple different initiatives over the last 12 months. So we perfectly to kind of look into improvements across the growth, both on the revenue side and on the cost side. He also comes from a background where he has done restructuring in his earlier visits as part [indiscernible] and consulting. So he has done this before and move what is probably expected and what we need to do, right? And lastly, I think it's also important that, we understand that great as part of the family, so he has seen in the game, right? So the two of us together obviously, as any member contour shareholding of the company, and it is our best in this world, obviously, drive some of these on initiatives to create stakeholder value by all, right, and shareholders. So with that, maybe, Greg, if you can maybe say a few words on the transformation and then obviously, the areas that we have worked on and we'll be working on.

Sure. Thanks, Tarak. So I think to the point that was mentioned around the transformation part of the clear role of -- from the sales side is to increase market share. No doubt, that's our transformation program. I do believe, and we believe that the new organizational structure as was mentioned in the opening remarks, helps us to move quicker globally for opportunities that we see across the world. We have greater ability now to share how much to be able to work closer as global teams to be able to seize opportunities that we see in the market to win new orders and of course, ultimately with market share. So part of that is required, obviously, changes in the way we work, changes in the way we go to market, which we've been implementing already. and we're seeing good progress there. We are seeing -- and I would point out that it is progress that we're making across within each division, but also because our customers will require as an example, sometimes glass line equipment, filtration and drying mixing equipment altogether for a certain order that they're looking at certain opportunities. we're able to work closer to get closer together also across divisions. So we have a very strong focus on improving our market share and we're focused on that, and I believe that our structure is going to help us with that. And just a single ton this, is it just -- it's quite interesting because when we created the store verticals we were not expecting Cross-selling to be one of the driving initiatives, right? We were separating people out, and we actually find that our cross-selling has actually improved when we now have a -- in version [indiscernible] you get benefits that you want to expect. And this is just one interesting case of how we got something that wasn't clearly planned. So again, it's a very different way of how we have done this. This is how we don't think in 140 years, right -- has been a very company and obviously, for the and GMM has been very regionally we operated always been very regional, right? So this is on national chain, a structural change there hoping over the next -- we give a very strong foundation to create business growth and margin improvement over the next few years. Does that answer your question?

Yes. My second question was related to your data keeping question.

So you highlighted the strategic measures actually that you will take on the operational side. So I know this was not a sequential mapping was something like the sequential mapping journey that we are looking for. It's a long-term journey. But for FY '27 and in FY '28. So at least that is up to 24 months. So based on the debt reduction program based on the strategic measures, what are the target EBITDA margins actually that the company is highlighting. And secondly, what is currently as on March '26 that debt that the company polls on its balance sheet. It's the long term as well as the short-term debt account considers around INR 835 crores in rupee terms. So what is the actual targeted debt levels that we are on till the end of this year as well as FY '28. So that is my second question related to data -- that's it.

Maybe I say in [indiscernible] We pay roughly a year of this quarter. And we were working on the refinancing [indiscernible] I apologize. The second base in this quarter -- and we're working on a refinancing alternative and we're in our debt on comment on the debt figure of the end of the financial year. But as you see, we are working on this, and we will prove with you over the coming quarters.