Goldplat PLC (GDP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Goldplat PLC investor presentation. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and we'll publish those responses where it's appropriate to do so on the Investor Meet Company platform. And before we begin, as usual, we would just like to submit the following poll. And if you'd give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I would now like to hand you over to CEO, Werner Klingenberg. Werner, good afternoon, sir.

I think it's good evening, Jake. And thank you again. Thank you for all the investors -- potential investors and anybody else that has signed in. I hope I can provide some additional clarity in terms of what is already in the market and maybe address some of the questions, some stuff that you don't find too clear in terms of communication that has been put out. But yes, I need to assume that some of you don't know Goldplat and I'll prefer to start to provide a little bit of background in terms of the business before I come back to the overview. So I'm just going to skip to Slide 5. And just to tell you a little bit more in terms of what does Goldplat recovery do. So in essence, the business has operated for more than 40 years, started off in South Africa, focusing mainly on the gold industry, although we also do some business in the platinum industry in South Africa. And the focus has been to extract value from the resources that has been let behind by historical mining and all that is created by current mines but they don't have a current process in terms of recovering the value that still remain in that material. Our clients are normally blue chip gold -- primary gold producers and as well as some platinum producers. We also provide some services to refiners and then to landowners, which had historical gold activity specifically on their sites. The material we deal with ranges quite broad. And in essence, we're willing to look at recovering value from anything that has been contaminated with gold during the processes, historically or currently. It's basically fine carbons, mill liners, woodchips, greases, plant clean-ups, surface sources and any -- as I said, any other material that's other concentrates that contain gold. Now the processes, we process it through is quite convenient than conventional rather. And relates to processes that you'll find normally in the industry and normal hydrometallurgy type of operations, which include leaching as well as the separation methods, which is gravity and size fraction, reduction through screening and various others that you can see on the slide. In terms of what we produce, we produce more and more just Gold dore bars, specifically in Ghana, we need to actually recover the gold in country. We can't send it to smelters anymore, and we'll talk about that a little bit later and the impact that it had in the first half of this year and as well as gravity concentrates in other types of concentrates that we send to smelters for final processing. So if we then go back maybe to the overview and talk about what all of this really means. We've got operations, as I said, in South Africa as well as in Ghana. We also source in South America and have plans to maybe expand slightly there to be able to also and reach clients with lower grade sources that doesn't warrant to be exported to our plants in Ghana and to South Africa, and I'll talk to that also a little bit later. In the end, our business is cash generative. And most of our capital that we incur, we incur from our own cash flow. We don't have a lot of debt on our balance sheet apart from finance leases at this point in time. And we are focused, as I said, on previously my material processing that on behalf of the mining industry. So I've already indicated our geographical reach material we saw throughout Africa and South America. I think what needs to be noted here is obviously that gold is quite an interesting commodity, it does draw a lot of attention even politically and due to the high gold price, obviously, there's a lot of illegal mining or artisanal mining and activities that does happen. And all of those sort of things drives what has happened in Ghana, where the authorities have decided that all material concentrates needs to be processed and beneficiated in country to a dore gold and that is just because they want to be able to have a better hold in terms of what goes out of the country from a gold perspective because it's not always easy for them to assess the value that is in concentrates. And that has been driving a lot of things. I mean we have Burkina Faso and Mali that after the coup have closed their borders meaning that they also don't want to export concentrates and that was some of the market we got in the past that we're not currently getting, but there is then other markets we've opened up like Ivory Coast, and we're looking at other jurisdictions -- gold jurisdictions to get material out and to increase the supply in Ghana. So commodity diversity, as I've indicated, we're not just focused on gold, but also in PGMs and it's also something that on the side, we do a bit of work on trying to see if there's any other commodities where we can add value in the future, yes, maybe I must address this now. And we've done some investment into coal in the past, not a lot. And that investment also resulted in us being able to get access of a small pilot plant. And that pilot plant we actually used in our gold recovery as well. And that sort of repaid the investment there. So we haven't really invested anything into other commodities significantly. And at the moment, although we're still investigating, we don't have any plans to do so. Apart from PGMs, we're always interested in finding material to process through our current facilities. Yes, we are in this recovery business. I think what we do is quite unique. There's very few other businesses in the industry that does the same maybe this year and the other industries that can add value to some of the material we processed. But when it comes to the lower-grade material, I think we've created quite a niche in the market in terms of what we're doing. And obviously, we've been in business for more than 40 years. We've built up a lot of technical expertise in the company. And we've got a lot of, obviously, knowledge that we've built up over time. So I think the one thing that's sort of moved of the business I've described up until now is our tailings facility or TSF in South Africa. So we have processed a lot of material over the last 25 years in South Africa, where we generated tailings, net tailings were stockpiled. And we did a JORC resource in 2016, indicating that there was still about 82,000 ounces of gold left in that facility. I think what is more valuable is that the grade per that JORC resource was around 1.7 grams a tonne, which from a tailings facility is actually quite high. Obviously, with the higher gold price, even becomes more interesting. But since 2016, we have deposited a further plus/minus 800,000 tonnes. And I think we've indicated to the market before. The grade then was a little bit lower, around 1.4 grams a tonne. Now this is not a JORC resource. This is based on our own measurements that we've taken in terms of what we've pumped out of the plant. And so that needs to be added. But that means our resource available it's probably north of 100,000 ounces, maybe slightly more. And we'll -- I'll try and give you a little bit more information on the TSF and what is our plans to monetize that in the future. So we integrate here that we see ourselves as a green gold producer. I think in the recycling world, you always talk about reduce, reuse, recycle. We like to think that we add sort of a fourth element to that circle in the sense that we try and maximize the value of the services that's already been caused. You have gold that's already been extracted from the earth, and it wasn't recovered through the primary process. And we basically add value through taking that material, extracting that value, making sure it doesn't go last, making sure it doesn't just end up on the tailings facility and becomes a liability. And we are quite proud in terms of that value we are adding to our clients as well. So if we then look at some key data on the listing, we've been listed since 2006, currently trading at about 7.5p and that gives us a market cap of around GBP 12.7 million. So you have a share that has been fluctuating and it's been driven, I believe, by the gold price and a few other factors. And I think what is important to notice that we've got a major shareholder, Martin Ooi 28.85%. He is also a member on the Board. Apart from him, we do have a quite experienced and balanced board. During the last half year,, we've got a new board member, John Cross. As per the announcement, you can clearly see he's got a lot of operational experience. He doesn't necessarily come from the mining side, which I believe has been adding actually quite a lot of value in terms of just evaluating our business in a different way and a different mindset and also questioning the norm to an extent. And so he's already been of a lot of value and it's good to have him on the board. If we then move on, I've already gave you detail of the value process. I've spoken to you about the fact that we're involved and believe we're green producer. I think what is important also to note is that it's for us important to keep to the responsible gold guidelines of and make sure we act responsibly in terms of where we source the material from and making sure that everything is in accordance with the guidelines produced by the LBMA. At the end of the day, we're being audited every second year in terms of that. And we're quite proud of that status and it's something we're trying to upheld this on a continuous basis. So if we then start looking a bit more to the last half year and what the business has achieved. You will see that in the last half year, we achieved operating profit before finance costs of GBP 2.6 million. And I'm saying that, that's for 6 months. And obviously, these numbers you compared to our current market cap of GBP 12.7 million, as noted in the previous slide. Net profit all in is around GBP 1.478 million for the period. You'll see that there's a slight -- or there is a reduction in terms of full year. And that's been driven by specifically changes in Ghana. I've spoken about the regulatory changes. And I can say that I'm quite proud of the team and the people in terms of the conversion we needed to do from being able to export material and we've become a full-blown processor, recovering value in dore bars in Ghana. Obviously, that's a total business model change. And when we look at the balance sheet later, you'll see that -- and our trade debtors as a result has reduced significantly. Our trade creditors has reduced. And as we are now becoming a processor, inventory has gone up, specifically because it's taken some time for us to obviously deal with the volume we had on site. But I'm sure by end of this quarter and year-end, you probably will see a big reduction there in terms of us getting and processing all the material that was delivered in the previous year. In the previous year, you'll see the numbers was exceptional in terms of historic numbers. And that was mainly driven by the volume of material we've received in Ghana. And I'll give you a bit more background in terms of that when we talk about Ghana. I think the important thing from this slide is that you'll see we have been profitable over the last 4, 4.5 years. And we've been able to operate at different gold prices at different time because in a lot of contracts, we also have some natural hedges included in it. We also -- as we are business focusing on extracting value and basically being an industrial processor from ad hoc sources delivered from industry and you'll have -- and we need to be fluid in terms of the solutions we provide. And I think the team has shown that they're quite successful in terms of doing that. In terms of those profits, I guess the question is going to be what are we doing with that and where did it end up? And I would like to address that a little bit later as well. Okay. If we move on to the different operations and I think the good thing is we've been profitable in all the jurisdictions we operate. And I think in South Africa, we've already indicated to the market, I guess, over the last 18 months plus. And that we are seeing a reduction in terms of volume of the deal we received just because of the sort of natural development in the gold industry in South Africa with certain shafts closing, more mines processing surface sources, meaning there's a reduction in volume and in grade, actually more in grade than in volume. So the amount of gold we received to process has reduced and there is still clients in South Africa we don't service. And that's basically our main target at this point in time to make sure we track actually a bigger share of the market. But on the back of that, I mean, again, the gold price has been helping. And on the surface sources side, we have done a lot of work in terms of building partnership in industry to secure responsible material for processing. And that has been quite successful. Internally, we've gone through a lot of structuring in terms of trying to make the plants that we've got operating more profitable either by increasing volume and improving recoveries or just reducing the cost relating to those circuits. So you'll see that we've managed to increase profits half year on half year in South Africa from GBP 0.3 million in 2023 to GBP 0.8 million in '24 operating profit, which those efforts I've been talking about and then obviously the gold price. In Ghana, we had a slight decrease. And that has been driven mainly because of the total change in business model. And I mean, it's easier to move material out in terms of volume. And if you need to process internally, you need to upscale your plant in terms of handling it. And you'll see later that we've basically invested GBP 900,000 -- close to GBP 1 million in the last 6 months, mostly in Ghana to assist us in terms of developing and implementing the plant and processes to be able to recover dore in Ghana. And again, as I've indicated, quite proud in terms of what the team has achieved. They've also done during that time, a lot of effort in terms of improving the condition of the plant. And yes, I think that provides an exciting future for Ghana into the future. They still did extremely well, GBP 2.15 million operating profit. It's down from the previous year, but the previous year had a big volume, as indicated and this year, we required to cover all that value or recover that in our circuit, which has driven Ghana's results in the last 18 months, both from some specific supplies out of West Africa. And I think the biggest uplift that's actually come from sources out of South America. And the team in South America has actually done extremely well in terms of securing more and more supply and to Ghana. And we have decided to move some of that material to South Africa now just to give Ghana bit of a breather in terms of processing and for them to get through their stock and to make sure we don't have too much of a cash lockup, and that has gone well. We've received all the licenses, and we started perceiving material in South Africa. So again, we needed to adjust. We adjust -- we've adjusted and we're following through. And hopefully, you'll see some of those profits coming through in South Africa by the end of the year or the first quarter of next year. If we then talk about just the focus, specifically in South Africa, some of that I've already spoken about. Sustainability of sourcing material at the recovery operations remain of highest priority for us. And we've got the tailings facility. I'm going to address that towards the end in terms of where we are there. Obviously, it's been on the radar for a very, very long time, probably is causing a lot of frustrations and -- but I think the exciting thing is that obviously, at the gold price, the value of this becomes more. And we are quite determined to obviously monetize this. And we've indicated that we hope to get all licensing in place by the end of December. It's not a process that's 100% in our control, and we'll keep the market up to date in terms of that. But I think of more importance is obviously, we're constantly looking and evaluating and trying to see if we can provide more clarity to the market and maybe I can do so in a little bit later. During the period, yes, we continue to maintain clients. We continue to engage with new clients. And so from that point of view, I think we're doing well and we -- there's still some clients in Southern Africa, outside of South Africa, we also want to get. Apart from that, I mean, based on where the industry is and based on, obviously, the mineral rich country, South Africa is. And we're also interested to say, well, can we take the thinking we've got on gold and apply it somewhere else. Now PGMs, we've done successfully in the past. It has been a bit more on ad hoc and the reason for that is just the metallurgy on PGMs is different. The type of byproducts being generated is normally extremely low grade. And so it's something we're still trying to develop. And we have done stuff on coal. We -- from an R&D point of view, looking a little bit at manganese, but not really spending a lot of money. But it is important for us to say, well, where is gold that going to be in 5 years' time? And can we use our current model and expand it. But I think when we talk about growth and expansion, we also need to talk about our -- what our policy around cash and distribution is going to be. And I'll talk about that also a bit later. Yes. On the TSF, I've already given you a bit of background in the Phase 1 of water use license has been submitted for approval at the beginning of this period. So that's one move that has happened in the last 6 months. We're now just trying to obviously get that process through the Department of Water Affairs for approval. As part of that, we will need to get some consent from landowners in terms of where the pipeline will cross. And the last thing is then to get final commercials from DRD. Now that is one thing that is, I guess, creating frustration at with shareholders is the fact that there's limited visibility in terms of, well, what is the real profit we can make from this thing. Now the real profit will be determined based on the commercials, we end up signing with DRD. Obviously, we have a general understanding. We've had good discussions with them. But until the licensing and everything is in place, and there is no real reason for them to finalize this process. And apart from that, putting too much numbers out in the market and you haven't finalized commercials, I guess, it might impact our negotiating power. And secondly, it also might end up being slightly different and expectations create it might end up being different. But I think the important thing for me is we understand where the market is. We understand that it is extremely big resource. And if you go and convert the ounces I'm talking about at current gold prices, you get significant numbers. Obviously, not all of that is recoverable. I think in the past, we have indicated to the market, 25%, 30% round about there. We've done numerous tests. It does fluctuate. Why does it fluctuate because we've processed a lot of different things over the last 3 years. So every sample will look different and results from that will be different. But I think we're quite confident that the range we've provided is probably reasonable. Now the last thing is just going to be, well, what is the capital cost and what is the actual cost of processing going to be. And that's something we're going to try and look at saying, well, can we provide a little bit more guidance because I have come to see that, obviously, if we leave the market, the market tends to make up their own minds and some of that might sometimes be quite far to move from what might be a reality. And we're currently looking at seeing, well, can we at least provide some sort of a framework or guidance even if it's a big range, just to make sure we -- there's reasonability. I think the other important thing is to note and that have been questioned in the past is that the TSF can't really be processed at our plant. Yes, we can recover value from it. And -- but the most value you can recover is by doing it at volume. We're doing 10,000 to 15,000 tonnes at our circuit and we're planning to do probably close to between 70,000 and 90,000 once we process this through DRD and that makes the cost per tonne a lot less. Secondly, if you process it at volume, you need the position facility to be able to handle that volume. And we just don't have that and getting that type of facility in the area where we are is going to be near impossible and we believe it probably makes sense to rather send it to a central mega tailings facility, which DRD operates in the East Rand. And yes, I think that's still the right process. It's still going to be the probably the quickest and it probably will still be the most valuable to be able to deliver that result. If we move over to Ghana, obviously, Ghana has gone through quite a lot of changes. We've explained that cost around GBP 900,000. We're probably planning to spend another GBP 250,000 over the next 6 months and to solidify some of the things we're currently busy with. Sourcing there will remain key. I think the one benefit in terms of the sort of local beneficiation drive in country is that we now have a solution. And it means we're in a way, capturing the market in Ghana for future processing. We also, therefore, are focusing on strengthening our relationship with the key stakeholders and where we get our sources in Ghana. Obviously, I've told you about West Africa and the complications there, but we haven't stopped. We're still engaging authorities in West Africa and in Mali trying to find different solutions in terms of the material there. And we've got good relationships. And hopefully, there's a different way for us to extract value from our knowledge in the future. South America, I spoke to you about a lot of successes over the last 2 years. We have invested in a piece of land for GBP 72,000 in country, and we will be spending a roughly GBP 200,000 bit by bit in terms of just starting off a small plant there. And we're not going to build a mega plant and then hope the material comes, our investment will be based on what we know. So normally, we will not invest if we don't have all the material available that we can process to repaying the investment as a start. And I think over the last -- although we spent a lot of capital over the last 3 to 4 years, and I'll talk about that now specifically against the profits we've generated, a lot of that capital has been replacement capital or stay in business capital. And we are very cognizant of the fact that we don't want to overspend in terms of capital, in terms of new projects. We've been profitable from material that do fluctuate, and we believe cash flow that we generate needs to go to shareholders. And hopefully, with stability that's been generated in Ghana, we can return to that, and I'll talk about a little bit more about dividends maybe after the presentation as part of the questions and answering session. Just explaining what has had an impact on the business over the last 3 to 4 years and what has delayed our ability to actually share the value we would love to share with shareholders. If we then quickly look at financial results, and I don't want to spend too much time on it. I've already explained a reduction in revenue that has been driven by the change in process in South Africa. Obviously, gold price has assisted and helped. You also have a situation where I think you can see it in profitability, profitability slightly down just due to the volume, but GBP 1.4 million, GBP 1.5 million profit and that is quite comparable to the average over the last 4 years, which is around GBP 3 million. And that GBP 3 million still delivers although GBP 1.4 million for the 6 months delivers a basic earnings per share of around 0.84p which indicates annualized probably PE of around 4. So I think over the last 6 months, even with all the changes we are all experiencing, we still managed partly because of the gold price to deliver good results to the business. If we look at the balance sheet, I've indicated increase in revenue and reduction in trade and other receivables. And what you will see is that cash at bank and on hand has reduced. And that was partly just because of a lot of stock and value that was sitting on our books, and that was still payable to suppliers as we work through those stock as we've reduced it and the debtors, we then were obviously able to pay trade and other payables. But we're still sitting with a healthy cash at hand of GBP 2.7 million. Again, that's probably around 25%, a little bit less now of our market cap. And a lot of that -- I mean, in the end this business is, as I say, is industrial processor. In a way, we're also a little bit of a trader. We get material, we process it, and we deliver it, we need to pay it. And you can see that our current assets and our working capital is a lot higher than actually our capital invested at the end of the day. And because if you've got these fluctuations from a risk point of view and from an opportunity point of view, we need to make sure we've got cash on hand and we can't necessarily go and borrow a lot of money based on our noncurrent assets. And we then, obviously, therefore, need to make sure we've got the flexibility to actually be able to maneuver inside this market. And that has been driving why we have a bit more cash than expected. Obviously, the changes in Ghana over the last 6 months has also necessitated us to make sure that we've got enough cash balances because we were going through change in processes. And in doing so, we had built up an inventory. And we probably still were testing a lot of our new processes and plant we've implemented and making sure that works before we look at capital distribution or cash distribution. And hopefully, as everything stabilizes now, we can start looking at sharing more value to shareholders. Yes, I probably sound a bit like a broken record, but it's definitely the plan from the Board to make sure we return value in the near term even if we start off slowly. So if we then look -- I mean, net current assets at the moment is around GBP 11 million. That's quite good comparable to what our current market cap is. If we look at the cash flow, I'm going to try and talk to the cash flow maybe over the last 4 years. I think if you probably go back to the original slide, I gave at the beginning over the last 4.5 years, on average, our profitability was around GBP 3 million. That gives you just over GBP 12 million of profit. Over that period, we've been spending on average GBP 1 million on PPE. I think 3 years ago, we spent GBP 2 million, which related mainly to an investment in a new TSF that was required to make sure we can continue the business, but was also required because we needed to obviously move from the old facility so that we can potentially monetize that facility. So some of that investment probably you can see as future capital invested for the value we're going to get in the future. But yes, so of the GBP 12 million, GBP 4.5 million went to PPE. We also, 4 years ago, went through a share buyback in South Africa, where we bought back 16% of the company at that point in time. And that was also in the end, required probably around GBP 3.5 million to finance that. And that basically gave us 16% more of the TSF. I don't want to take you back so far, but there was other reasons and value that was added. There was a lot of intercompany debt that was owing to South Africa. So a bit of that was theoretically also bought back and added value to the group. And yes, maybe it's something we need to revisit at some point in time if we've got time just to explain that investment decision. So that coupled with close to $0.5 million that was returned to shareholders through share buybacks. And 2 years ago, plus $1 million paid back on finance leases probably brings us to around GBP 10.5, GBP 11 million. So that is what has been happening with the cash. And I guess, over the last 4 years. And the GBP 3.5 million theoretically should add value where we bought back 16% to the shareholders in the future when monetize the TSF. If we then move forward and we just look at sort of where our strategic focus at this point in time is I think all of this I've said, increasing our market share in South Africa, increase our client base in neighboring countries to open up and expand our market. Specifically, I think in South America, there's still great potential. We're working on solutions in West Africa. And we want to improve our local beneficiation. Obviously, we're 6 to 9 months into the process. We're going to recover more gold. We want to be -- increase our margin in terms of the activities we've got there and obviously see how we can extract more value from what we've been able to achieve. The TSF I've spoken about and what we want to achieve there. And I've spoken about us trying to optimize South Africa reduced costs and then return surplus cash flow to shareholders. I think in summary, for me, it's all about sustainability and visibility. The more sustainability and visibility we can create through securing good relationships and sources of material, the easier it is to make cash flow decisions in terms of distributing value to shareholders. And that's really the main driver at the end of the day. We are obviously focused on making sure that when we spend capital, capital is either stay in business capital or is focused on creating sustainability and visibility. If not, we would rather prefer to return cash to shareholders. Then the last one is obviously -- and the big one is on the tailings facility that we need to monetize and return that significant value to shareholders over the next couple of years. I think that's sort of the summary. And I'm happy to look at questions -- questions now, and I thank you for your time and hopefully, you already have some more clarity in terms of where we are and where we're aiming.

Perfect. Werner, if I may just jump back in there. Thank you very much indeed for your presentation today. [Operator Instructions] But just while Werner takes a few moments just to review those questions that were submitted already, I'd just like to remind you that a recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via your investor dashboard. Werner, as you can see there, we have received a number of questions throughout your presentation, and thank you to all of those on the call for taking the time to submit their questions. But Werner, at this point, if I may just hand back to you to read out those questions and give your responses where it's appropriate to do so. And if I pick up from you at the end, that would be great.

Okay. Thank you, Jake. I'm just going to take a bit of time just to look at these questions because it seems like a lot of them are probably quite similar. There's a few that talks to the tailings facility and talking about getting a better understanding and better time lines of when that value will be able to be extracted out of the TSF. I think I just want to summarize what I've already said. And we've got a JORC resource and we've got an estimation of a further 800,000 tonnes we've put on to the dump. So at a grade of 1.45, I guess, that brings the possible gold content closer to 110,000 ounces. Obviously, 30,000 of those needs to be confirmed through additional specialist test work to make that a JORC resource. We've indicated recoveries around 25% to 30%. The big question is now on the cost, and I appreciate the fact that shareholders wants to have better visibility. I think the Board is already taking it under review to say, well, can we provide a better guideline in terms of cost and indication to the shareholders? And hopefully, based on our engagement, we can see if we can put something into the market and to provide additional information and comfort. Obviously, the good thing is that the gold price has moved. It might continue moving, it might stay the same. Hopefully, it doesn't go back quite significantly, which means that the TSF should have some more value apart from cost that has increased over time. So I think it's still an exciting proposition for Goldplat and yes, unfortunately, there's a few things that's outside of our control. We're working with third parties. And as we tick those off, obviously, visibility will improve and the information we can provide will be a little bit more clear. But I appreciate the fact that there is a bit of frustration and you want to see a bit more visibility of what the potential is we can get. Okay. Simple question, when are we likely to receive a dividend? And I think as I've tried to explain, our ability to pay a dividend is a function of the projects we're currently busy with and the value that's locked up in working capital and the visibility we currently have. So from that perspective, I don't want to really necessarily put a time line on when we say we are going to be able to get a dividend out. I think it's becoming just more and more important for us to be able to start sharing some dividends even if it's small and just starting a process of sharing value with shareholders. And that's also something we're definitely going to keep the market up-to-date with the same as with the TSF. And how do you see the South American segment evolve over the coming 3 years? Well, I think if you look at South America, I mean, firstly, it's quite -- it's a big continent. And it's a continent that's got 2 big divides. You've got Amazon, you've got the Andes and having one plant in the middle of Brazil doesn't necessarily mean material from everywhere you can go there quite easily. It might be easier to send material from the north of Brazil to Ghana and then sending it to the south of Brazil in essence. But the idea is -- and the area we've chosen is to be able to firstly create value from lower grade sources and it's a segment where a lot of people don't operate. It's in a way, also, as a result, higher margin type of material. And then secondly, it's also a way for us to be able to get our hands on to high-grade material because we provide a complete solution for clients where some of our competition specifically in South America, which is more traders prefer to look at the high-grade clean material. So -- and it's obviously also very good for us to have a footprint. And in Brazil, it gives us the ability to collect, store and upgrade material and make sure we can create value over time. I think -- I mean, South America as in Africa, it's constant effort, and it will mean we would look to just getting a few key clients. And again, to be able to generate some visibility and continuity. And the idea is that the low-grade material we can process should hopefully be sufficient at least cover overheads, so that you get to a point where if you get a large batch and more of that can go to the bottom line and they need to pay for effort over the last 3 months to secure that supply. In recent supply, you've referred to protest by Galamsey miners against government efforts to regulate and register the activities and for them to clean up their act -- has the government been successful in this, and does represent and create an opportunity for GDP? And if so, why? Yes, I think, obviously, especially in the gold jurisdictions in Africa, having artisanal miners and illegal miners, the 2 is not the same. You get small-scale miners that mines with consent from government. But the problem there is not necessarily that easy. And you're talking about big areas. I don't think always the problem is artisanals extracting value -- the problem is artisanals extracting value and polluting rivers and sorting up [ levels ]. And that's really what I think government is trying to stop and trying to regulate a lot better. I think in terms of that, there might be some value for us in the future to be able to extract value. Again, it's one of those things that we'll need to evaluate at the time. We'll need to invest in a different area, a certain amount of money to be able to assist in terms of monetizing more or cleaning up after. And although we probably have got the capability, we need to decide at which point in time, it makes sense to do so. And probably we're at a point in time where we would like to see some value rather going back to shareholders than investing into something that ends up having the same risk -- and that's something that the Board is also evaluating. There is a lot of value in processing of tailings. And some of you might remember 10 years ago, we actually did it in Ghana, but there is obviously a lot more regulations around it. And you need to partner with locals to make sure we can do it effectively. So there's a lot more to consider in terms of adding that value and I guess in the short term, as I'm saying is we might be more focused on ensuring we extract cash from what we've built up and the cash we extract to be able to return it to shareholders. So I think there's also been questions asked and about the selling of our tailings facility, although it's not practically impossible, there is various reasons that doesn't necessarily make it that appetizing for bigger players in the market. And just because they already have sufficient sources, they don't necessarily push to secure sources today. And if need be, they can -- it's probably something they'll do at a later stage in 5 years' time or 10 years' time. So I still believe we'll extract more value from it processing ourselves, and if -- I mean, obviously, if there's a possibility of monetizing it as easy as that it's always something one would consider, but I don't think there's anything on the table at this point in time. About Ghana, the company says through investment in plant capacity and change in operations, we believe these levels should normalize in the next quarter. If I guess next quarter probably is referring to quarter 4, and it might take a little bit longer. If we talk about normalization, as I've indicated, we've built up a lot of stock in Ghana that we've processed. And we probably will see sort of a normal flow in terms of volume in Ghana being processed through our plant and operations and but -- so yes, we're probably talking about quarter 4, quarter 1 of next year. And there's questions about share buyback and dividends. If we're at a point in time to make a decision on whether we want to return value to shareholders, I guess we want to, that's not the question. But once we decide, obviously, we'll look at the share price at that point in time. And I think if you look at a PE of 4, PE of 3 last year, even less, and I think there's probably a lot of reasons to say that the share buyback might add a lot of value, but we will assess that at that point in time. so if we look at revenue from South Africa from neighboring countries, there's not a lot of value coming from there. And we do get materials from Southern African countries, but that also is not necessarily every year. Some of it happens only every 4 to 5 years. If we look at the jurisdictions that really has gold mines, it's just Zimbabwe, which tends to be smaller scale and they don't necessarily generate that much byproducts. There's obviously also the complications of exporting material out of there. And then there's a few major mines in Namibia. Apart from that, there's not a lot of others, we've received material out of Tanzania in the past. I'm not sure if you'll recall 6 years ago, there's also been a big drive for beneficiation in country that forced some requirements on some of the big gold mines on that side. So we're not getting anything out of Tanzania at this point in time, and we're trying to revisit our ability to access that market as well. And just going through a few questions here. Okay. So a question here about recycling metals from electronics. I think there's already big players, specifically in the jurisdictions where we are that focus on recycling of metals from electronics. If you look at recycling of metals from electronics, actually, the business is totally different. The biggest part of it, I almost want to say is having a network and transport and engagement in terms of securing that from all the different scrap dealers and different industry and supply. That's not necessarily our expertise. Our expertise is in processing. And if you look at the type of processing you require, most of it is just dismantling and separation which is quite manual labor. And from that point of view, you start then looking at actual -- actually the metallurgy of recovering that. We're still looking at whether there's some part of that we can capture, specifically in South Africa. But some of that is -- tends to be more suited to send to a big smelter for processing. But on the processing side, yes, we are talking to people but we can't say there's anything definite at this point in time. There's a question here about, well, does it make sense to invest material -- funds into South America and not rather just return that as dividends? And I maybe want to use that as an example to explain the nature of the business. I understand the question. I appreciate the question. I guess in the end, the business is always active and always involving and to make sure you capture and retain the market, there's always capital that you are going to require to spend. As I've explained, the idea of spending money in Brazil is actually to sort of increase your marketability with suppliers in country and to secure sufficient and ongoing supply so that's the sort of balancing act that management needs to uphold and make sure we invest in the future in terms of current supply but also focusing on giving dividends to shareholders. And yes, I think for me, the focus is more about ensuring we do both. And we ensure we don't overextend in terms of future value generation and balance that between making sure we spend in the right place but also having sufficient money to pay dividends at the end of the day. There's a question on revenue that was delayed for certain reasons in Ghana? And what was the impact? In the end, the GBP 2 million, I mean the associated cost of the GBP 2 million will also come through in quarter 3. It won't have been booked in quarter 2. So the cost and the revenue will be recognized at the same time. So it's only the margin that you're going to see will come through in quarter 3. In the end, I mean the margins do fluctuate based on contracts in the nature of material, high-grade material, the margins can actually be quite low. That's why we like to have a good balance and why we're actually trying to capture a bigger part of the lower grade market to ensure proper margin for ourselves. Okay. And I hope that addressed most of the questions. And I think there is 1 or 2 other questions, but it doesn't really relate to the business that I haven't addressed. I think in summary, as I've said at the end of my slides, I think -- and the Board is fully aware in terms of where the business is and how things have developed over the last 5 years. And since we've moved away from mining, focusing on recovery, I think the business has done extremely well. However, a lot of the cash that's been generated has been -- didn't necessarily end up in shareholders' pockets. It needed to be reinvested in the business. And I've explained the reasons for that. I believe we did create value through the investment we made when we bought back shares in South Africa and hopefully, through the monetization of the TSF, we'll see that value. The frustration of the TSF is also understandable. It's been on the radar for the last 8 years. The visibility is coming closer. I think the relationships and all the engagement is quite positive. And sometimes, it's actually quite difficult to explain certain movements and momentum that we are seeing. And I mean, because the true momentum at the end of the day is not whether you're having good discussions. The momentum is whether you have the licensing in place, whether you have the contract in place. And we're working hard to make sure we deliver on that. And in the interim, I mean, we take it at heart. We are going to have a talk to see if we can share a little bit more information to give shareholders a better idea around the TSF and the value that is contained. And yes, I think apart from that, I really appreciate your time. I appreciate the questions. And yes, I hope you had some additional value from this discussion. I enjoyed it. It would have been better if we can see each other face-to-face, I guess, it's sometimes easier. But yes, thank you for your time, and I hope you have a good evening.

Perfect. Werner, that's great. Thank you very much indeed for being so [indiscernible] for your time then addressing all of those questions that came in and for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order the management team can really better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure it'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of management team of Goldplat PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good evening to you all.