Gray Media, Inc. (GTN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next session. We have Gray Television with us. I'm Aaron Watts from Deutsche Bank. And from Gray, very pleased to have Jim Ryan, Chief Financial Officer; and Kevin Latek, Chief Digital and Development Officer. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us again this year. We are going to jump right in.

So around 2 weeks ago, you reported 2020 earnings and closed the book on a year that offered the lowest lows tied to the pandemic, along with some highs, such as record levels of political spending. Jim, you've been with the company for more than 2 decades; and Kevin, I think you're rapidly approaching your first decade. So what were some of your key learnings or fresh insights on the company that you took away from the past year? And how do you view Gray as positioned coming out of the pandemic and embarking on the road to recovery? And maybe also if you could just throw in a few of your top focus items over the next 12 to 18 months?

Well, I'll start off. This is Jim. I think one of the things we learned was just the -- we always thought we had an amazing set of employees. And what we learned is that we absolutely do. Their ability to pivot last March, go remote on no notice, whether it was in the corporate office or in every operation we had, was just amazing to see, and the resiliency all year-long as they kept adapting and overcoming. And the amazing work by the local sales staff in digging out -- even in the midst of the lowest months of the pandemic, digging out new business month after month after month. We're really proud of our employees. And I think the company -- we've always had very, very high-quality assets in mostly #1, #2 stations. And I think we proved in 2020, and even the early parts of 2021, that it's the strength of those assets, strength of the local news and the connection we have in the local communities that really helped us last year. And we've seen it in other downturns, too, but never to the same extent. So we're very pleased with where we're positioned. Core was down. Political was up. Net-net, we ended up the year about or maybe a little better than what we would have told you we expected in January of 2020. So all in all, we're very pleased. Kevin, I don't know if you might want to add some things to that as well.

I guess, I would just add that we thought we had cut every technological advantage possible when we went into 2020 in terms of just the way we produced our newscast. We eliminated master control at our stations a few years ago, rolled in doing just a whole new workflow. It still required a few people to be in the station to run up a newscast, but a lot fewer than most companies use. And when the pandemic came, we had to figure out how to get those people to keep doing their jobs but doing it from their homes and apartments. And their ability to not just report from home and anchor from home, but to produce a newscast from home is something that we never thought would be possible. So we figured that out, and that sort of opens up some new opportunities perhaps for us to be doing some production of newscast outside the market, which is especially handy when you have big storms, hurricane, big freezes, power outages, whatnot. But may also be the ability to help us staff up some of the smaller markets by producing them from a distance. So I think there will be some efficiencies that we picked up in 2020 that we'll be able to continue going forward. And just in terms of the second question, what's the prior -- the next 12, 18 months -- I mean, the next 12 months is all about integrating the Quincy operation and the Quincy employees. So we're working on the divestitures now. We'll have to -- we'll go through government approval after that. We'll get to a closing albeit late summer. And then integrate the stations in the company and gear up for the next big political season. We're already starting to see some ads for -- I understand, we've seen a couple of little ads here and there already in Georgia gearing up for the 2022 race. So we're not going to be as big as 2020, but it's probably going to be another really big non-presidential year.

All right. Well, that gives us plenty to unpack over the next hour. So let's start with advertising and looking at how it has swung back for you. Last April, I know you don't want to think back to that time, but at the trough, core was down around 38%. A couple of months later in June, it was down 17%. A couple of months after that, in September, down 12%. And then to wrap the year up in November, December, you were off just slightly versus the prior year. So looking forward, your first quarter pacings indicate you could actually finish up from first quarter of '20. What's fueling the recovery, Jim? And why do you think TV is coming back faster than other traditional media such as radio, newspapers, out-of-home, et cetera?

Well, I think the recovery is currently being fueled by leading the way with the services sector, which would be medical, financial and legal. They're all doing very nicely, November, December and first quarter this year as well. We're also seeing some strength in recovery in supermarkets. Home improvement has done -- is up as well and has been a consistent performer all through the pandemic. Where we're still seeing weakness is where you would expect it, in your retail, in your entertainment and auto is still lagging. But I think that right now is more of a supply side issue with the manufacturers having difficulty getting the chips they need for the cars versus the consumer demand of -- anecdotally, we understand the buy side on the car is just waiting for the inventory to catch back up again. I think television may be leading a little bit because it's pent-up demand. Also throughout the year, viewing levels have been up, not to the historic levels in March and April of last year, but certainly have been up all year. And so I think it -- as other businesses are trying to rebound and come back online, clearly, television offers a tremendous reach, and it's reasonably easy to use. And I think that's maybe why we're kind of leading away a little bit.

Okay. And have you noticed -- and maybe it's too early, but as business comes back to you, if someone -- as a percentage of their wallet share, if someone used to be spending 90% on television, are you seeing most of those dollars start to come back? Or are you seeing any leakage where that advertiser is now putting more towards digital or some other medium, too?

We're not sensing a lot of leakage. And it really gets down to advertiser by advertiser. Some people are back basically to 100%. Some people are not there yet, but they've been coming back. I think it may -- it really boils down to their individual businesses and how fast their businesses are coming back is more how we view it than leakage to digital or to other mediums.

Okay. Got it. And one category that's gotten a lot of focus and discussion lately as the potential for sports betting to become a leading vertical. What does that category represent for you today? And in your markets, how much upside do you see over the next couple of year.

In 2020, gaming was in single millions. 2021, we think it's going to grow nicely. It's still only in a handful of the states we're in. And obviously, that's a state-by-state process and state-by-state decision. We clearly -- it's very clear that as more states allow gaming and betting, that's going to continue to grow nicely. So it's very nice to see the category starting to spring to life and put green shoots up. We think it bodes well for the next several years as far as a growth category for us. Exactly how fast it grows is hard to tell because we can't predict exactly how fast the states are going to act.

Sure. Makes sense. And Kevin, I don't want to gloss over it, but you made some initial comments about political coming off a monster year in 2020. I know you talked about Georgia, 2022. Can you just kind of frame how you could see the next few years shaping up for political? And even if we don't get back to the bar set in 2020, is it something that you think we can get close to?

I'm not smart enough to know if we're going to get close to it or not. But then I thought we were pretty smart last year when we raised our political guide for 2020 to break -- which we went into the year saying we expect that we would break $234 million by some amount. A year ago, we were saying that amount might be $250 million, and then we raised $300 million, then we raised it $350 million, then we finished year at $430 million. So whatever anyone tells you in terms of political advertising revenue estimates, take it with a grain of salt. I don't think any of us know. We have our finger, I think, pretty close to calls from D.C. with myself and other folks who do political actually do the political advertising, talking with the 12 agencies that place all political ads. And they all are promising us that it will be better than '16 and even better than '18. But I think none of those folks had any idea it would be as big as it was. So I don't know how we could be any smarter this far out than we were a year ago when we were in the midst of the presidential election here. So what we think is '22 will be a strong year, I don't -- I will be shocked if anybody has a better '22 than '20 because the presidential money is gone. But it should probably be better than 2018 to some extent.

Okay. Got it. And last question around kind of advertising and viewership. The way viewers are consuming video continues to evolve with the accelerated adoption of streaming services. With that backdrop and how it could impact advertising, how confident are you that core ads can recover to pre pandemic levels, that viewership will be there for your local programming and kind of continue to grow over the next few years? Jim, you may be on mute.

Jim, answers on core?

I was going to let you go. I was going to let you, Kevin, talk about -- go first. But -- so with core, obviously, '21 is a rebound year for us. And everybody. I think over the next couple of years after that, we probably, at least for our company, given the strong positions we have in our markets and the very good market shares we have historically taken in those markets, we think we probably are growing at about the same rate as the overall growth of the market. So in our minds, core would probably be relatively low single-digit after we -- post pandemic recovery and whether that's -- that recovery is completed in '21 or may even go into '22. I don't think anybody -- any of us really knows yet. But if you're thinking a few years farther, I think it's kind of a low single digit, we'll keep pace with the markets more or less.

Okay. Great. All right. One quite positive data point I came away with from your last call was that your underlying subscriber base was down a mere 1% in the fourth quarter. And that's certainly a lesser decline than what was experienced throughout 2020 and compares favorably to some stats we've heard from others in the space. Why do you think your markets are seeing a bit more stabilization in the sub base than others? And what assumptions are you modeling for the sub base in '21?

We think that some things are probably going on last year. But again, we're not in the MVPD marketplace. So these are -- our speculation is there was a large drop-off in subs when hotels, sports bars, restaurants and others canceled their subscriptions when they were forced to close down in the spring. Obviously, there was a great deal of unemployment and a shock to the system. And as the year went on, we had reopenings across the country. We had jobs coming back. We had stimulus checks going out to folks. By the end of the year, likely where people who are paying their overdue bills to Comcast and DIRECT and Altice, et cetera, so the service wouldn't be cut off. We also had broadband being deployed pretty aggressively outside of the major markets, which makes Hulu, YouTube and the other OTT providers more of a real competitive option to cable, or actually MVPDs. So all in all, we ended up having a -- for the year, our sub count was largely unchanged. We think going forward, there's clearly pressure long term on sub levels. I think every single company has said that. We don't disagree. I don't -- I personally don't think subs are going to drop a big amount this year. We're coming out of a recession, 10 million people unemployed. Hopefully, most of them will not be unemployed as the year goes on. With people working reduced hours and some of them just left the labor force, economy rebounds and throughout this stimulus relief will help in that regard, it's also going to put a lot of money in people's pockets that we'll see people signing up again for MVPD or even OTT subscriptions because they've got more disposable income. And also, as the economy recovers, there should be a committee trend of folks that are starting new households or moving back to their own household, right? Recession folks often move back in with parents or move in with friends to cut expenses. They do that, they obviously don't need to pay for a TV subscription in an apartment or a house that they're no longer living in. So as you come out of a recession, household formation improves. As household formation improves, there should be some increased demand for the pay TV services. So I'm not smart enough to know if that's going to be -- how strong that wind is going to be because I don't know how strong the economy is going to recover, how quickly. But I don't think this is going to be a dramatically bad year because of the economic recovery. But I'll go back to the overall trend is pay subs that are going down for every content provider and every distributor over the long term.

Okay. No, that's helpful context. And on a related note, over the past year, you've renewed your distribution agreements covering a majority of your sub base. You talked about retrans growing at a healthy double-digit type rate in 2021. One concern that's often discussed is with the pressures facing the MVPDs on sub numbers, is whether that retrans growth will dissipate. It's certainly not the case right now, but how confident are you that this now very important income stream can continue to grow, not just right now but also even through the next cycle of renewals?

I mean, retrans growth has certainly slowed, but we were coming off small numbers, right? We used to crow about the fact that we went from $0.25 per sub per month to $0.50 per sub per month, 100% increase. And now we're -- now the increases are much more muted, but the dollar amounts are larger than they used to be 2 or 3 cycles ago. We go back to what we've said, the value proposition of broadcast with 95 of the top 100 shows on TV, most intense viewership in any local market, local TV stations have higher ratings than most anything in prime time. Almost virtually anything on cable. The people want their local channels, and they want the local broadcast channels. So what's the value of that? The value is clearly more than, call it, $4 a sub group -- large groups are not getting out for the big 4 affiliates. You've heard me say in the past, if you signed up the Tennis Channel, the NFL Network and the Golf Network, you're paying $6.50 per sub per month. Those numbers are now a little bit old. If you have just the CBS station, you get more golf than the Golf Network, more tennis than Tennis Channel, more NFL than the NFL Network. And again, it's getting the #1 rated entertainment network in the country. We're getting local stations, in most cases, with strong local newscast and national network newscast specials like Super Bowl and Grammys and whatnot. So what's that CBS station worth? I mean it's obviously worth more than $6.60. Is it worth at $8.60? Is it worth $10? I'm not sure of that. I mean, I know there's a long way to go before we get there. Obviously, there are pressures on subs, but it doesn't mean that broadcasters should -- that broadcasters need to help out the situation by reducing how much money we get. I mean we got to pay for our content, too. And there's a lot of -- there's still a lot of distributors out there paying a whole bunch more content to providers who are not delivering anywhere near the ratings we have. And I go back to the fact that if broadcast stations have ratings every single day, 365 days a year, and ESPN has ratings in about 8 to 10 days a year. I'm not saying ESPN shouldn't be paid. They have a very loyal audience. They bring real value. But you can go down the cable networks and find that almost all of them don't have ratings most every day of the year. So frankly, why should they get paid anything? The value proposition that we deliver commands far more than what we're getting today. And that means that the pricing structure has to change. And I think you've seen this pricing structure has changed. And the network with low ratings have been threatened with and have suffered through drops across distributors and have had their rates cut, probably not enough yet. But the money doesn't have to necessarily come out of our back pocket. And we're the ones delivering the value. They can come by the networks that are getting paid to deliver basically no viewership.

Yes. No, that makes sense. Now on the other side of this retransmission coin, I think about your affiliate partners and how they're launching new or expanded direct-to-consumer streaming services, given the expectation that the studios and networks will want to pour significant resources and content into those offerings to spur subscriber growth and offset some of the linear erosion they're seeing, how do you see that impacting the broadcaster affiliate relationship? And Kevin, I asked what the backdrop of, obviously, it's been in the press what NBC was looking to do with the Late Show and Peacock. And then more recently, Paramount Plus, not having the local station content on the most basic tier, but having the NFL. Have you been able to gather any more intel on those moves since your earnings call? Any incremental thoughts you can offer here today?

The NBC affiliate board has been discussing Peacock issues with NBC at great length. The Chairman of the NBC Affiliate Board is our President and Co-CEO, Pat Laplatney. The CBS Affiliate Board is talking, has met with CBS and is discussing the NFL, where the NFL content is going to come from. I'm talking to the network about that. I'm one of the executive officers of the CBS Affiliate Board. So it's pretty clear to say Gray cannot discuss what's being discussed in those confidential agreement or confidential discussions between the network and CBS and NBC affiliate boards. We can confirm that we're discussing it, but we can't talk about anything more than that.

Okay. All right. We'll stay tuned on that topic then. Let's just gear to see your big announcement to kick off 2021 that Gray will acquire Quincy Media. I know these are assets you've had your eyes on for some time. What makes these -- this set of stations such a good fit for you?

They've been on our work list for a long time because they're exactly the kind of TV stations that defines great television. They're all #1 or strong #2 TV stations. Most of them are actually duopolies. They're located in markets that are, for the most part, adjacent to where we already have a strong presence. It's run by a group of folks at Ralph Oakley, who we have all known our entire professional careers. Our COO has competed with GM in market against Quincy. So we know these guys professionally. We've been on countless Boards and industry events with them. We've had meals with them, played golf with them, for literally a decade. So we know that the stations are run exactly the way ours are. The GMs are empowered to make the decisions they need to make. Things are not run out of corporate. There's no bureaucracy in that company. They don't have the layers of management that sometimes bigger companies or certainly legacy newspaper companies have. The stations are staffed very leanly, just like ours. So it's like a -- I mean, the best way to describe it is like it's a mini Gray. I mean, it's run just like Gray Television except that it's controlled by, at this point, by 2 families, which is obviously not public. So it's really the most perfect fit out there for us, if anything, that remains. And if we look -- when you go back 9 years, and you made a list of the groups that we would like to acquire, the top 3 would be Raycom, Schurz and Quincy, probably not in that order. So with this, we will snag the last of the truly great groups out there that were private that we thought would be a perfect fit for us. There's a lot of other very good singles and doubles that we've acquired and we still like to acquire or out there. But in terms of the private family-owned or -- Raycom is obviously state-owned, really great collection of stations, locally run, no bureaucracy, more dedicated journalism. This fits us to a tee. So far, the transition is going extremely well. We had 2 Zoom calls with their employees yesterday. They're all very -- I guess, they were very excited. Ralph is very gracious in his praise of Gray. [indiscernible] after all the years to be doing this transaction with us, and we are as well. So it really is a great transaction for us. We're very happy with the price we paid, the assets we're getting, the people we're getting. And the last piece of it, as I mentioned, is we have to complete the divestiture process and get government approvals, all which we think will come in time without drama or surprises.

Okay. And just out of curiosity, was this a competitive auction process? And maybe also with the divestitures that you're going to be making that you just mentioned, in that process, are you seeing a greater number of suitors or types of suitors than maybe you've seen in the last few years? Or is it the same kind of crowd that's showing up for it?

Yes. Quincy did hire Wells Fargo to run an auction. We know that if we know a number of folks showed out, we understand that we know -- [ we said ] -- they haven't told us. We have a good guess, kind of who are the other sort of 2 bidders were. We understand we succeeded on price. But more importantly, the connection between us and Quincy that made our bids superior. The divestitures are also being [ done ] by Wells Fargo. That process is underway. I would say that we did a [ stressor ] process for Hoak, for Schurz and for Raycom. We have more folks interested here, more focused on the NDAs and certainly a much more diverse group of folks -- the bigger groups, public companies and private groups, some family on smaller groups and then even some individuals who either used to be in the broadcast business or got out and are just now getting back in and some entirely new entrants. So from a tender standpoint, ratio standpoint, type of company, size of entity, it's really, it's all over the map. And we really didn't see that in Raycom.

Okay. Got it. And Jim, you are going to be divesting of 6 markets where you had existing overlapping stations. Those proceeds presumably help offset the $925 million price tag you're paying. How should we think about how you'll fund the remaining balance considering you are sitting on a healthy cash stockpile? And maybe tied to that, any preference between floating and fixed rate debt at this point, given not only what is currently going on in the market with rates, but your current fixed first floating rate balance.

We'll decide exactly how we're going to finance this farther down the road as we get closer to a closing date. And obviously, that will be heavily influenced by market conditions at that point in time. You are correct that we do have a very strong cash position, so we, theoretically, could pay cash. We theoretically could go to the markets as well. And we'll make those decisions as we get closer to the closing date.

Okay. So even pro forma for Quincy, you'll still be comfortably below the 39% national cap. Kevin, do you expect a pickup in M&A activity for the industry this year? Despite the new administration in DC? And I know you're just -- you've just announced Quincy, but should we expect Gray to be opportunistically still in that mix going forward?

I am surprised there's not more activity in the M&A front with the election behind us and for like the political revenues behind us. And obviously, pandemic behind us, I actually would have thought there would be more activity. Instead, Quincy is about the only major thing that's come to market, and it's otherwise fairly quiet. So I'm still expecting it's going to pick up. But we have fewer players remaining. And as you know, people don't sell based on where we are in the Wall Street cycle or anything like that. They sell based on their unique family circumstances and where they want to sort of move on. Look, as you said, with Quincy closing, we'll be at 25%. The cap is 39%. So we have room to do a lot more transactions we want. We also -- if we don't find anything that meets our criteria or doesn't -- something that we think the price is something we can justify, then we're just as happy to not do transactions. There is no must-have for us. There's no deal we need to do. So if something comes along that makes good sense at the right price, I guess, we would certainly pursue it. But we're not out trying to roll out the business [ pre op ] and get to 39%. We'd rather have a high-quality group that's smaller than everybody else, than be at the cap and have a group that is made up of stations that are not as similar to what we already own.

Okay. Got it. And you spoke about this on the earnings call. But for those who missed it, what are you expecting out of the Supreme Court this year with regards to kind of the FCC case?

We expect the FCC is going to -- I'm sorry, so the FCC is going to prevail at the court. The third circuit will be overturned that would reinstate the rules adopted in 2017. We expect the decision will be out by the end of June because the Supreme Court always issues all the decisions by the end of June. But that's the end of our insight. I caution people that it's complete b******* is my technical term for all the whining and crying that the Supreme Court decision's going to unleash the flood gates of consolidation, the FCC's decision in 2017 to allow broadcast TV stations and newspapers to be commonly owned, and no one is interested in doing that anymore. And it allows you to own a non-big 4 station and a big 4 station in a midsized market. The rules currently allow you to own 1 big 4 and 1 non-big 4 in the largest markets. That change in the rule just simply extended that to midsized markets. So it's not like our CBS and NBC affiliates in St. Louis or something are going to be commonly owned; or ABC and Fox will be commonly owned in New York City. That would not be allowed by the rules. It's about adding a -- ability to add a non-big 4 station to a big 4 stations in the midsized market, which means we can pick up -- in some of the markets, we can buy a CW or a Telemundo, MyNetwork, Frankly, there's just not a lot of those left anymore. And in midsized markets, there's many fewer stations. So -- and we don't have 18 station in a midsized market. And even when you have, say, 7 or 8 stations in midsized market, typically, at least 2 of them are PBS affiliates. So there will be some opportunities out there, but it's not opening floodgates. Probably some other big broadcasters who have a CW in a large market with nothing else will be able to take advantage of that by selling that station to an end market broadcaster, but we don't really have any standalone CWs or standalone Telemundos or anything like that.

Okay. Got it. So Kevin and Jim, it's time to talk about your love of video games. You announced this morning that you are leading a $40 million investment round into NV Gaming, an e-sports and entertainment company. I think you're putting $28 million in, and we'll have board seats. Tell us more about the company, the investment and how it fits into Gray's portfolio.

Jim, do you want to take that?

Yes. Clearly, gaming, electronics -- e-sports has been growing quickly for some time now. And as we talked about earlier, the broader gaming sector is beginning to take off as well. So we think this is a way to get into that future growth curve in e-gaming. It's a modest investment for us. It's a well-positioned company with some good franchises. So we think, especially post pandemic, it has a bright future. And a little further down the road, there may be -- and I say this only in a more of a very forward-looking semi-hypothetical, but certainly, if there's opportunities that make sense for both companies and there is some either production work or potentially programming that we can access from that, that makes sense to us and it would have audience appeal. It's certainly something we'd -- as we develop the relationship and go forward, will be something that we would be interested in.

Okay. Got it. You just -- one of the last questions I have is just around your free cash flow profile. You just reinstated your dividend after a long hiatus. So perhaps that's a good lead-in. But with leverage expected to land at a reasonable level of around 4x at year-end, what are your priorities for your cash over the next 12 to 24 months? And perhaps remind us on your free cash flow expectations and your outlook there, and within that contract, where you'd ultimately like leverage to live on a blended kind of even-odd year basis?

Well, certainly, at the end of the year, we were at 3.95. And as we said in our call and when we announced Quincy at the end of this year, with Quincy fully pro forma-ed in, closed and pro forma-ed, we think leverage is somewhere still around 4x, which is comfortable. Aaron, you've been following us for a very long time, and you know that our leverage will come up and down depending on our ability to do good, constructive, high-quality M&A that's free cash flow-accretive. So whether it was Hoak or Schurz or Raycom, leverage went up generally in, call it, 5, low 5, and then immediately came back down over the next couple of years. And that's exactly what -- where we are after having done Raycom at the beginning of 2019. If we -- as Kevin said, there's nothing that's a must-have, but there's some things that would be probably nice if the opportunity and all the variables that go with it come together. But you can't predict when that happens. So I think, first, we are going to be -- we're going to sit on our cash a little bit longer. Now that's not necessarily to foreshadow what we'll do with Quincy. As I said, we'll come to decisions about that as we get closer to the closing date. But we obviously are keeping a larger-than-normal cash balance, and we did that deliberately during the pandemic. As we get post pandemic and have clearly know what the new normal is and there isn't much M&A activity, then we will undoubtedly be paying down some debt. Free cash flow generation is very strong. It was $559 million, 2020. 2021 probably looks more akin to 2019, but it's still very good for a nonpolitical off-year. And so we have the -- we will definitely be utilizing the free cash to, again, absent any significant M&A or other modest investment opportunities in like our production companies or something akin to that, we'll be paying down debt. The dividend is -- nice to see it reinstated. It's -- I would describe it as a good starting spot. It's not a lot as far as the overall free cash ability of the company, but it's a good place to start. And as we said on our call, depending on market conditions and where our stock price is and our view of its relative value, we may be, from time to time, opportunistic on the stock buybacks just as we were in 2020. There's still a good ways to go on the outstanding buyback authorization if we choose to buy back in the future.

Okay. Got it. And Jim, I know -- I think your most expensive capital in your structure at the moment is the preferred stock you have in place. Is that anywhere on your radar in terms of wanting to do something about that with your cash or your free cash flow that you're going to generate? Or is that a little more in the back of the line behind debt and other kind of investment opportunities?

We'll probably be a little thoughtful on that. It is -- in the current rate environment, that 8% coupon does look relatively high. But you got to remember that, that is very benign paper. It has no call -- I mean, it has no redemption date. It's basically a perpetual. And we have the right to call it at par in whole or in part at any time in our sole discretion. So it gives us a tremendous amount of flexibility in our overall capital structure. We -- I think this kind of falls under never say never. It currently doesn't fall within the leverage calculations under the senior credit facility or the bond indentures. So I think we want to again get post pandemic and have a clear view of what the new normal is going to be. And maybe it's a case of whether it's a '22 or in '24 when there's very strong political, maybe it gives us a little add and obviously significantly higher free cash generation because of the political. And maybe a strong political year would be the time to think more about redeeming some or all of it.

Okay. Got it. Well, Jim, as you said, I've been following the company for a long time. And for as long as I can remember, you've been participating in our conferences, and I don't take that for granted. We appreciate it. I'll turn it back over to you for any closing remarks you might have. But thank you again for being with us today.

Well, it's been our pleasure. And thank you very much for giving us the opportunity. And Kevin, if -- I'll let you take us out if you've got anything else you want to say.

Yes. I have nothing besides thank you all for joining us today and for your interest and support of the company.

Okay. Thanks again, guys. Take care.

Thank you, Aaron. Bye-bye.