Greenply Industries Limited (GREENPLY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call of Greenply Industries Limited hosted by Asian Market Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Bhatelia from Asian Market Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good morning, everyone, and on behalf of Asian Market Securities, we thank you all for joining us on to the Greenply Industries 3Q and 9 months FY '22 Conference Call. In the panel today, we have Mr. Manoj Tulsian, Joint Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Sanidhya Mittal, Joint Managing Director; and Mr. Gautam Jain, AVP Strategy and Investor Relations. Before we begin, I would like to state that some of the statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. A detailed statement in this regard is available in the recent presentation that was sent to you by the company earlier. May I now invite Mr. Manoj, sir, to begin the proceedings of the call. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Karan. A very warm welcome to everyone present, and thank you very much for joining us today to discuss Greenply's operating and financial performance for quarter 3 FY 2022. Before proceeding, I would like to welcome Mr. Nitin Kalani who had joined us as CFO and is also attending this call. To start with, let me share some insights on our financial performance in the current quarter. I'm pleased to inform you all that as per our previous guidance of sustaining the revenue growth momentum of quarter 2 FY '22, we have achieved consolidated sales of INR 421 crores, a growth of 23.7% on Y-o-Y basis and stand-alone sales of INR 373 crores, a growth of 20.3% on Y-o-Y basis. On the margin front, we face challenges. Our Q3 FY '22 consolidated adjusted core EBITDA margins declined by 130 basis points on trailing basis to 10.9%. This happened due to the undermentioned factors. First is steep hike in both the key raw material prices, timber and chemicals. Although we have taken reasonable price hikes during the last quarter, but it was not sufficient to cover the increase in raw material prices. In order to maintain our profitability, we have already taken next round of price hikes of almost 2.5% during this month. Secondly, our sales mix has changed as our own manufacturing contribution has reduced to 62% in quarter 3 from 65% in quarter 2 FY '22, and the revenue share of manufacturing partners and trading revenue has increased. Going forward, our manufacturing is likely to increase once again as our new greenfield project at Sandila Lucknow starts production which is expected to happen anytime in quarter 1 FY '23. To put things in perspective, these margins exclude noncash cost of ESOP of around INR 3 crores in this quarter. On a consolidated basis, working capital days has slightly gone up from 39 days in September 2021 to 42 days in December 2021. Going forward, all efforts are directed to keep that in check. In our Gabon business, we have achieved sales of INR 48 crores in the last quarter, a growth of 58% on a Y-o-Y basis and a decline of 14.5% on Q-o-Q basis. The logistics issues that still prevail are affecting the productivity, hence, impacting the margins. From demand and relation perspective, we expect it to be positive for next year, driven by strong demand from European and Southeast SCA markets. From a macro perspective, we maintain our optimism on the wood panel industry in the backdrop of solid fundamentals of our economy and the promising outlook of the housing sector. With a number of factors like low interest rates, falling house prices in state government stimulus supporting the housing market revival, we are witnessing tremendous growth numbers in home sales. Although commercial real estate is yet to pick up, we expect the trend in housing segment to continue over the long run. Adding to our outlook, we applaud government's decision to allocate to INR 48,000 crores under the PMAY, Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana, in the recent union budget for '22, '23. As the company prepares to new level of horizons by expanding the capacities as well as entering into new lines of business, we are working vigorously enhancing the management bandwidth across the functions directed to its long-term growth plan. In addition to building team, we have also strengthened our processes and systems to improve our business metrics. To name a few, we have already done a lot of IT projects implementation and many more to be rolled out soon, which are directed towards process and turnaround time improvement, et cetera. We have implemented very strong commercial decision policies and protocols directed towards credit controls, inventory management, better realizations and gaining market share. We firmly believe this would be a critical key success factor in our future growth. With many more such initiatives, now we have very clear strategic road map for next few years. With this statement, I would like to hand over to Sanidhya to update on our new projects and manufacturing partners.

Thank you, Manoj, and good morning to everyone on the call. I'm glad to announce that we are on fast track mode in implementing our new projects. In our greenfield plywood manufacturing unit at Sandila Lucknow, the plant machinery election work is underway. Trial runs are expected in March '22, and commercial operations will commence in Q1 FY '23. All the CapEx has been done and no further investment is to be made in this unit. In our new MDI plant in Vadodara, Gujarat, all plant and machinery have been ordered, and construction activities are going on under full swing. The project should achieve COD by Q4 of next year. In our asset-light model, we have 2 manufacturing partners for manufacturing of plywood and a live products. The first project has started production of plywood during last year, and now we are fully utilizing the capacity. The second project has started partial production in the last quarter and balance will start in Q1 FY '23. Further, we have signed up another manufacturing partner for manufacturing of plywood and live products in Hapur, UP. The unit will have capacity of 7.5 million square meters per annum. The plant should be operational by Q4 FY '23. Talking of the plywood industry scenario, the industry is moving towards a steady growth path with organized sector growing at the cost of unorganized players in the market. Owing to consumer affinity for durable and branded products and working capital constraints among the unorganized player, the market share is shifting from unorganized to organized. Also with some organized players in related industry entering into the plywood segment, the industry will expand and move faster towards organized segment. Hence, we take this as a welcome step. With this perspective, I would like to open the floor for Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial.

My first question was -- in terms of the volume growth, if you look at, we tend to see -- relatively, we have been doing a little lower number in terms of growth. So I just wanted to understand, in terms of the industry, I know it's hard to say, but what is the industry growth in last, say, 9 months? Was that a sharp decline or was that a positive growth? And what kind of market share gain have you seen?

So Achal, you only answered your question, it's very hard to say whatever volume growth the industry has gone through, as I always been maintaining that we struggle to get such type of data. But I would say how we are looking at things is for growth within the industry. And I keep maintaining what I have said earlier also that there's too much of opportunity for organized players during this period when their support in terms of housing sector doing well and of market share moving from unorganized to organized. So I think what we are looking at is the growth within the industry. And that is what we are trying to target also clearly.

Right. In terms of the expectation, how do we look at -- you said in your opening remarks that the sales momentum has picked up for real estate. Residential has picked up, commercial there too. If I were to ask you from next 3-year perspective, what kind of growth can we look at for us, specifically given the manufacturing, the JV and also the distribution part? How do we look at the growth?

See, if I say from the industry perspective, first thing I'm very bullish that, yes, this year, if you see the numbers, I was looking at a lot of numbers also we keep tracking. So on the real estate side, on the -- we have almost reached to now FY '19 level, and it looks like that now we will start crossing those numbers going forward next year. On the commercial space side, we still find that there is a lag, but there are certain buckets in the country, which is still doing better than the other buckets. And I'm sure that will bounce back, because my own feeling is the way today after the pandemic, things have changed where now both the things are getting equally promoted, the work-from-home concept as well as work from office, which means you need more space, be it the home side, be it the office side. I have also been interacting with certain MNC players who have been saying that the same office space earlier, if they were occupying at, let's say, 100 square feet per person, now it will be maybe 150 square feet percent. So what they have done is they have created some spacing, which means that the office space doesn't come down, but the number of people setting that in that office comes down, which means, again, that there would be a certain number of people whom they would be allowing to work from home. And then in work from home, again, if there is a 2 BHK home, people need to make it 3 BHK because you need that space, a separate office space, and there are certain data, and I was talking to a few more consulting houses who said they have started giving all type of allowances also for setting up office at home. So with these type of things, I think the industry momentum should be very strong, adding to the same interest rates if you really look at today. I mean this is the minimalistic rates, which we are today looking at. Yes, we talk about inflation, we talk about maybe interest rates slightly going up also. But still, I feel that in the next 2, 3 years, the interest rates for housing will still be sub 7.5 or 8 max, which will still be a very good rate for consumers who really wants to buy a new house for themselves. So looking at these things, I think there is quite a bit of opportunity from the external side, also adding to the same, the shift from unorganized to organized. And within the company, for sure, yes, we are looking at expansion of capacity. So while we are talking, the Sandila plant will be operational in quarter 1. And even the earlier 2 JVs, which we have signed, 50% of facility in 1 of the JVs will become operational. And now we have done another tire in APU. So that facility will become operational sometime in Q3. So we are totally geared up in terms of dealing with the volume growth also. And to add to that further, I would say that as an organization, we are targeting at least 5% to 7% volume growth going forward with the type of efforts that we are taking. Though I'm not assuming the industry to grow, I'm just assuming that we will be able to grow within the industry.

If I hear you correctly, you're saying you're bullish on the industry prospects, but you're not looking at or assuming any industry growth, but you grow at 5% to 7%?

Yes, 5% to 7% of volume growth.

Volume growth. Okay. Okay. And my second question was, you have taken 2.5% price hike in the fourth quarter. Does that cover your entire cost inflation? If you could quantify each of the components of RM, how much has been the cost escalation in the last, say, 9 months or 12 months on a Y-o-Y basis?

No, I won't be able to share because that will be too detailed. What I can give you a perspective is 2 things. One, the recent price increase what we have taken is -- was to cover my cost differences, which we could see up to December. But while we are talking, the prices are still not stable. So there are some chemical prices, which has again started moving up, and there's timber prices also, which is slightly high in January. So I don't know, maybe we might have to look at another price increase in quarter 1 again. It's an extremely volatile situation the way we have looked at in the last 12 months. And though we try to cover up all the increase, but somehow there is always a lag. The raw material prices are moving faster than what we assume. So we wait and see.

But I would imagine, sir, the cost inflation will be much higher for the unorganized. So what kind of price difference have you seen, say, a year back between us and them? And now has that narrowed meaningfully?

Yes. Our own perspective and some test check says that the gap would have reduced by maybe 2% to 3% from the earlier time of a year back to now.

Would you be able to quantify what was it earlier and what is it now?

So the difference where the industry was operating was around 10% or 11%. I think maybe now it is around 8% to 8.5%.

Okay. Understood. And just last 1 clarification. In terms of the margin guidance earlier, you were talking about 13% to 14% margin guidance over the next couple of years. Would you stick to that? Or is there any change in that?

Achal, I'll tell you, we have taken a lot of initiatives, and I was quite confident that maybe I had given a 2-year to 2.5-year perspective, and I felt that we will be able to do it much before that. But because of this unprecedented raw material price volatility, even supply chain volatility, which is there, we have been just chasing those -- the raw material cost increases. And because of that, some of the margins, which we could have achieved, have not been achieved. But for sure, I'm still confident that margins will improve even further once the raw material prices are much more stable. I would be able to give you better direction and clarity. The other thing, which we are also looking at, which we have maintained earlier also is to see in this business that how we are able to improve the ROE. So that is another number to track going forward for Greenply as a company when it comes to plywood business.

The next question is from the line of Sneha Talreja from Edelweiss Securities.

So you gave some clarity on the previous participant's question, wherein you said that you're targeting 5% to 7% volume growth. Is it for a specific duration that you are mentioning like FY -- like Q4 or is it for FY '23? I just wanted some clarity on that particular guidance which you gave.

No, no, no. So I'm saying I'm talking of next year, because I personally see a lot of opportunity to grow within the industry. And that's where we are looking at that in the respective -- so if there is an industry growth that happens, that number will get added. But this is a number, which, in a way, I'm trying to say that we will gain market share, okay? And the market share mostly will come from the unorganized sector. That's what we are targeting.

So this is over and above what the good normal growth rate you will be seeing, plus 5% to 7% on account of unorganized shift from unorganized to organized?

Yes. So look, if the industry grows, of course, we are a major participant in the same, right? But I'm saying that what we are trying to internally see rather than getting into that debate, that how do we improve our market share. So a 5% to 7% volume increase also for us is not difficult. If we do a few good things in the right perspective, that is something which is achievable. Over and of that, if the industry grows by another 3%, 4%, then for sure, that number adds up.

Okay. The reason I was asking this is that other peers in the building material space, whether it be peers in the wood panel space itself or even any other space. Every one given the low base of what you've seen for this year or last year is guiding for double-digit volume growth. So 5% to 7% growth for your company actually looks relatively very low. So I just wanted to ask the reason for being so conservative here.

No. This is gaining market share. So I'm not even talking about -- because those are very assuming statements. If the industry grows at 8%, then my number becomes 8% plus 5% or 8% plus 7%, maybe 14% volume growth. Okay. So I'm sure, we know others might be talking of just the overall growth, whereas I'm talking of gaining market share. And this market share, as I'm clearly saying, we are targeting is from the unorganized segment because we see a lot of opportunity there.

Got that. And secondly, I just wanted some clarity on your margins. So this quarter, you gave a couple of reasons that your outsourcing percentage has increased because of which margins have come off. That's 1 reason, and they can be raw material. I understand the raw material will cool off at a certain point of time. But if your mix keeps changing towards the share -- I mean, towards the JV or the procurement that you're doing through outsourcing, what are the ways you will be able to inch up those margins to the earlier guidance of 14-odd percent or 15-odd percent eventually? What are the levels for that?

So it's a very interesting thing what you are talking. We are also doing some work on this. We will have even more clarity in a couple of months. But I will give you the perspective. One, like the Sandila plant, once this becomes operational, this will cater to again in the premium sector. That helps us in improving my margins. Second, we have also been learning a few things. We started with our first 2 manufacturing partner concept, okay? There, we had a certain amount of learnings. So we are doing some cost corrections where we made certain mistakes. And I think that will help us -- or that has helped us in better drafting and understanding of these future manufacturing partner contracts, which we are signing. So that will help us in improving our margins further on that platform also. But yes, given our scenario, if the -- if your value segment continues to grow faster than this, then yes, we will again have to debate this, and we have to see that what needs to be done. But right now, I think margins can improve further because once the premium segment production becomes up and running, we will again gain back on the margins.

Sure. But in the near term, can we expect margins to hover somewhere about here or maybe marginally up with raw material prices or are you passing it on?

I still feel for sure, we would be able to maintain this margin and the only chance is to grow from there in terms of margins.

So we can say the bottom is achieved?

Sorry?

So I think the bottom is achieved. We'll not go below this level until there's another steep price increase.

No, we are not doing anything per se there. We get the confidence that it will further come down. Whenever there is a raw material increase, we are trying to pass it on. The only challenge is that there is always a lag. And unfortunately, in the last 1 year, we have only seen the prices going up. It's slightly cooled down in the month of December, and we were optimistic that we can now possibility stable and it will come down. But again, in January and January end, we are seeing that, again, suddenly, it has gone up. So the market is very uncertain. So you will always see a lag of maybe 1 quarter, but there is nothing per se, which will bring down the margin further, okay? There are certain improvements also which we have done. And I'm very hopeful that the margins get stabilized at these numbers or it can improve further. Even on the consol numbers, if you are talking on Gabon, also, you will see the margins are minimalistic. So there also, we are only hoping that we are at the worst end of the cycle, only things can improve from there. There cannot be anything worse than that.

Understood. In fact, once you were speaking of Gabon, any clarity on the container availability and all those rate issues. Are they eased up? Are we now able to cater to those orders, which we were kind of pushing while we were not taking those orders and not catering to certain markets? Have those concerns eased now?

Sneha, good that I mentioned all these things around the year back, and we still face almost all the challenges what you said. It's a difficult environment, but good that we are at least surviving. We are still able to do a level of business where we are still in profit. But as I said, that these type of opportunities only makes the company stronger because then we keep looking at options where we can further be efficient, and we can further be -- further improve on productivity aspects. So a lot of things have been done. So I think once the cycle rebounds, maybe we can surprise the market, but I will not put any time lines. I still feel that even next 2 to 3 quarters, things on the supply chain side, and this may remain very similar to what it is right now.

Got that, sir. One last one, if at all. I can just ask, you mentioned a lot in your opening remarks with respect to the structural changes that you're making, whether it be regards to the credit policy, the pricing, gaining market share. Are those changes done with credit policy? We pretty much said the last quarter also we had done with good part is we've still seen some improvement. To my idea was if those structural changes are done with, can we -- I mean, when can we start expecting the growth now if those structural changes are on it? And also the similar set of things we've seen a lot of changes with your employees that also senior management changes, head changes. Are those changes sort of it or are you expecting some more changes to be done in the coming future? Some clarity there would be helpful.

So I think your first question was on...

The market side with respect to credit quality, the discounting policy, pricing, the one that you're doing with your distributor change, are those structural changes done with? And some of the other changes, which I spoke about were related to your employee changes on maybe the IT things that you are doing in the company. Are those changes done with? Or is it a continuous process?

So Sneha, if you see last year Q3, I mean FY '21 also, okay, we had done a decent job. And we had done, as I said, if I recall, at that point of time also, I would have mentioned that most of the corrections were done but something was still left for -- to be done in Q4 of last year. So if you see on growth, we are almost growing at 20% compared to last year quarter 3, okay? And looking at -- knowing that the market may not have grown, the numbers are good. Now those basic changes and everything has been done. But as you get into and you have more insights, you have more opportunities to do things. So I would always say that it is a continuous process. The basics have all got corrected, okay? There's no differences now. We are just building up now. We could not have built up last year when we were just doing. And try and understand that a big change what we have brought in, not only for the external environment, but even for the internal environment, because when a company operates in a particular manner, and we want to change things, okay, the internal acceptability itself is also not easy. So we have gone through all those. Now that is all past and improvements are always possible. We'll continue to do that. And I think the growth will continue to happen now. I mean, normal because of these type of things, it is going to hamper my growth. It's given now to the market, it's given now to the team that this is a new way of working. And everyone actually is very, very happy. The feedback today is that both the internal team as well as the external team are extremely happy with the changes what we have done. It was painful, but it is over and everyone is happy. And what was your question -- next question?

I think more or less -- I think we were just asking about employee-related changes also, are those mostly done? I mean...

Changes, it's a continuous process. That will continue to happen as and when and where we need that, yes, changes needs to be done. We are a growing organization. We are adding new verticals, new segments, right? So we have a lot of tape also for accommodating the existing team also and also adding new talent. It's a continuous process. It will continue to happen even for the next 2 years.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Venkat Samala from Tata Asset Management.

Sir, my question is just -- I mean this has -- you partly answered this before as well. But I just wanted to understand when you mentioned 5% to 7% kind of volume growth from market share gain, how does this tie in with the double-digit volume growth that we have spoken about entering into FY '23? So I mean, has anything changed there?

Well, as I said, this 5% to 7% volume growth, which we are looking at is basically market share gain, okay? And this gets topped up with whatever industry gain, what will happen, okay? So even if like -- earlier only, we have discussed that industry is growing at 3% to 4%. So even if it is 3% to 4%, we will be in double digits. But the fact if you really look at in the past over 3, 4 years when we have not registered any volume growth. So this hopes and expectations have come because we have corrected many things that I just mentioned in the last query. And the team itself is very bullish. That has opened up a lot of new avenues for us to look at, which in the past, sometimes we were not able to look at the opportunities. Okay. So it's all about how my team is behaving today. So the momentum in the team is very bullish, and we are able to do the right things together. So it's a number. It can be even better than this, but I have just put a perspective.

Understood. Understood. So the optimism that we had maybe Q2, Q3, that kind of still continues, right? I mean there's no change to that.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Understood. And maybe a near-term question, generally, we have witnessed seasonality being favorable to us Q4 versus Q3, right? And this, again, in the context is that we are now behind the path when we were enjoying the lower base, right? So now Q4 FY '21 onwards, the base would also -- high base would also be sort of kicking in, right? So in that context, how do we see Q4 of FY '22 pan out now?

So I mean, I don't buy this argument of a high base or something. I just look at what is the opportunity today in the market. And as a team, we feel that there is a lot more what we can do. And that's why I didn't even commented or I didn't even said that if the industry grows, then I will grow, if the industry doesn't grow, I will not grow. And there's so much opportunity to grow, we must look within ourselves and see which are those pockets and corners where we can grow. See, of course, we have to also keep in mind that we had certain limitations in terms of even the volume increase, okay? And that's where these new capacities are also getting added. So that eases out the pressure, because we deal in -- within the -- and as also we deal in some multiple product lines. So sometimes it happens that you have production constraints for a particular product category, and there is a mismatch in terms of order versus the supply side. So as and when these things are also getting corrected, I hope that possibly we are missing out something maybe 1%, 1.5% growth also because of those mismatches, which we are trying to figure out, trying to correct through adding capacities. All those things happen and definitely, these numbers will improve only. So the question of base doesn't come into play. We have a long journey to play. At this point of time, we start talking about the large base and all those then we are into -- we are actually doing.

Right. No, my question was just that the usual seasonality wherein Q4 is stronger than Q3, that is still kind of -- that will still play out in this quarter also, right? There's no change to that.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't see a big change to date. If you will see how our backup is, it's not a big change, but yes, normally, Q4 is slightly better than Q3.

Understood. And one last question is how do we look at this ESOP cost quarterly run rate? I mean I'm not just talking about any Q4, but maybe running into FY '23 or FY '24 as well. How should we look at it? Should we look at it as an absolute number or as a percentage of revenue? I mean any color on that would be helpful.

ESOP cost, first of all, it is a noncash cost, okay? So we have separated that out, because when we compare any period to period, then it doesn't give us the right comparison. It's a noncash cost. Second, the ESOP cost would be higher for the next 2 years, and then it will taper down. So maybe you can assume around 1% of sales or 1.2% of sales for the next 2 years and then it tapers down quite a bit. But in case we have started reporting it separately, our adjusted core EBITDA, so that is the number what we should focus at, yes.

Understood. Understood. And 1 last question, sir, this MDF whatever CapEx that we were kind of envisaging on -- for the MDF plant, with the increase in commodity prices, is there any change to that cost? Or is that largely built in? I mean that contingency?

No. See, contingency, we have actually taken initially very tight costs. We're still doing our work, but as we say, there is a chance that maybe it may slightly go up. Commodity prices are crazy. It's just crazy, and we are still trying to do everything. We are trying to time it also at times, but I mean this is something which other than God, nobody can time it better. Timing, we go wrong again, right? So -- and over and of that today, the logistics challenge is -- the sea freights have gone up significantly. Every costs have gone up. And overall, that's the uncertainty. So it would be a great job, I can tell you if we are able to do it within 5 50, 5 55, looks it will cross that number. but we are still trying to see whether we can contain it within that number.

Understood. Sure. Sure. And if it all exceeds, would it be within 5%, 10%?

Yes. Yes. It should not go beyond that. We are really working very hard. And see, we are also trying to squeeze the project implementation time line. So we are trying to save through that opportunity also. So within 5% to 10%, yes, for sure, we will be able to manage them.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Abhishek Ghosh from DSP Mutual Funds.

Just a couple of observations. If I look at your ad spend, that's kind of come down as a percentage of sales. That's just about 2%, 2.5-odd percent. If I look at prior periods, it used to be higher. At the same time, if I look at the distribution network over the last 1, 1.5 years, that's seen quite a bit of slip particularly into the rural and urban. So how should we look at it? If I just look at or broadly the distribution, you've strengthened a lot, but that spend has come down. But at the same time, you have also rationalized your working capital days now. So if you can just broadly help us understand along these 2, 3 aspects.

No. Abhishek, when we look at numbers on a quarter-to-quarter basis, sometimes these perspectives do come up. But our ad spend like in quarter 4 is very high. We have another TVC, which is going on during this quarter. So by the quarter end and year-end, we will be back to that 3%, 3.5% numbers, okay? So you will see that increase in cost during this quarter, which will get booked. So as a company, we are not bringing down our ad spend, overall marketing spend below 3%. We continue to look at investing on that front. And it's -- so on marketing also, we have a rejuvenated team. We have a new marketing head who has joined looking at things again from a different perspective. And we are planning many things for next year. But as far as those total budgetary cost would be there, we will not exceed more than 3% even for next year. That's how I look at it at this point of time, and which will be good enough for us to give us a better, larger visibility with the sales growth number with that percentage remaining the same. So we'll continue to spend on the brand side. There's no cutting corners there.

Sure. And sir, the dealer addition that 1 has seen in the rural and semi urban, it's almost doubled in last 1 year. How should one look at that? Any benefits of that are you already starting to see or just some thoughts there?

We have got certain benefits from this increasing dealer base. But at the same time, we are doing other work also. We are doing a lot of work on the secondary side also, not only on the primary side. So we are working on the depth and distribution. We are also working on demand recognition. And we have actually learned a lot also from going into rural, because there was a lot of supply chain issues and other things, which we faced as a hurdle. I mean, in terms of what we were assuming will work versus what actually the market was expecting us to do. So there are some cost corrections, which we have started doing. So certain portion of that dealer network, which we created, but it stopped, but I would say, started giving us [indiscernible] will again come back into the process. So I think next year, again, we'll get traction because we've done some course correction on the logistics side, and we are continuously working on it. So that is going to help us only. As we enrich our depth and distribution, it is going to enrich overall numbers. So when I'm talking of improving market share, it is because there is a lot of work which is happening on the ground level. It will be very unfortunate with so much of effort what we are putting if we don't get those numbers and possibly again, we have to sit on the drawing board and look at where we are making mistakes again.

Okay. And sir, just 1 -- 2 small ones. Is that -- what would be the peak that when your MDF plant gets commissioned next year? What will be the peak that you're likely to be at?

You're talking about the consolidate, right?

Yes. I'm referring to the consolidated.

So I think on a debt equity basis, we should be slightly less than 1. And on an absolute number, it can go to around INR 600 crores, INR 620-odd crores.

Okay. And just 1 last question. You mentioned that the plywood this way you're incurring a CapEx of INR 130-odd crores, the revenue potential is INR 250 crores per annum, which is commissioned in 3, 4 months' time. do you expect to realize this revenue of INR 250 crores? Is it going to be a 2-year journey? Or is it going to be more like 3, 4 years? Any thoughts, sir?

No, no, no. By H2 of this year, we would be almost at around 90% capacity utilization. In H1, maybe we will only reach to around 50% to 60%. So next year, the subsequent year, we will be running at a full.

So this INR 250 crores of revenue potential, you can achieve in '24 from this new plant, right? Is that a fair estimate?

Yes.

My question was this INR 250 crore itself of incremental revenues unless it gets substituted by something else, on a current base, would it still give you a 13%, 14% kind of a growth. So I was more coming that why this conservatism of those just 5%, 10%, 12%. I think this is plant itself can give you a 14% growth. So am I looking at it a little differently? Or is there any some other angle to that?

Yes, yes. So I'll tell you 2 things again. I think some of you are not trying to understand the perspective. What I'm saying is a value growth. I'm not talking about -- I'm talking about the volume growth, not the value growth, okay? So when I'm talking at a 5% to 10% volume growth, and it is in the premium segment and the value growth will be better, okay? And second thing, I'm saying that whatever will be the industry growth that, in any case, we'll be participating. So if the industry grows by another 40% that can be additional volumes. So if my volume grows at 11%, 12%, the value can grow at 13% to 15% easily.

The next question is from the line of Sonaal Kohli from Bowhead India.

I wanted to understand from you that in the areas of real estate, let's say, '04 to '10, would you have a perspective of what growth rate was the industry growing at on a 5-year basis or a 3-year CAGR basis?

The housing sector growth rate you're talking about?

No, your industry plywood, which is a proxy, but they may not be perfectly correlated.

Well, if you are looking at the past data you're saying, right, last 5 years?

No. I'm talking about the areas of real estate which were definitely not last 5 years. I was referring to 2004 to 2010 kind of period when the estate industry was growing, which is the generic expectation from the markets, whether it does or not is a different matter, but people expect the cycle to be good. So I'm just trying to get a perspective, what happened in the past cycle?

No, I don't have that insight at this point of time, Sonaal. But we can always get back to you, do some more homework and come back to you for you.

Secondly, sir, 1 clarification. In your remarks, you have been talking about industry growth of 3%, 4%, 5%, 6%. So 1 clarification here. When you talk about growth rates considering there were one-offs -- must have been one-offs for the industry, both in Q1 and there may be some one-offs during December, January due to Omicron as well. So I wanted to get a perspective when you make the statement of 3%, 4%, 5%, 6% growth for the industry, are you talking on a normalized base, because 2022 was definitely not a normal year as far as the industry is concerned.

Well, yes. I'm talking about a normalized base only. I do understand that even this year is not a very normal year. So I'm just not talking about what is my next year's growth target. What I'm talking about is snatching market share from the unorganized sector by different things, what we are doing at the ground level. So that is all on a normalized base. This year is still not a normalized numbers. We had disruptions in quarter 1 again this year. So my next year overall number of value growth will be much higher.

Secondly, sir, considering you are more at premium and there's finally for us as investors, I mean, volume, frankly, doesn't matter because you grow 30% and your volume growth is 5%, hardly of any consequence to anyone you know. So I wanted to understand, considering your new capacity is coming up in premium, would you -- can you give us some perspective that what would be your value added both? So let's say, the volume grows by 5% or 10%, whatever that number is hypothetical, how much more would your value growth happen, based on what you know today.

So if I understand your question, what I can say is that setting up this unit in Sandila is also again strategic. We get certain advantages in terms of our raw material costs and other costs, which helps us to get better margins, okay, from the producer of that particular plant. So that will help us in doing a number which is in terms of value proposition, which is better than my volume growth. I don't know whether I've been able to answer your question or not.

Sir, I was coming not from a strategic perspective, I was coming from a premium because premium pricing is way higher than normal. So for us as investors who don't understand these kind of integrates and neither do we have access to the data, it will really help us if you can give a broad perspective. So let's say hypothetically, to make it easier your overall growth is 10%, maybe 5% industry growth, 5% over and over industry or growth, how much would be your value growth based -- would it be like 15%? Would it be like 12%? Would it be like 20%?

No, no, no. So if overall volume grows by 10% on a normalized scenario, okay, it will not happen only in the premium segment. It will also happen in the value segment. So then that 10% will result into maybe 11% or 12% growth only, not significantly higher, because see, the company will grow in that particular mix only. We are present in the premium segment. We are present in the value segment also. We are concentrating on both the segments because there are different markets, different consumers. And we are also setting up the capacities, which will be able to cater the demand on both those segments also.

So you're not expecting over 2 years on weeks to change in a very significant way. It could be slightly around there, but not a very big change.

No, no.

Understood, sir. This is pretty helpful. So if your INR 250 crores gets absorbed -- there'll be to match this you're expecting out this INR 250 crores part to also grow accordingly, right? Have I understood you correctly?

Your voice was not very clear. Can you just repeat the question?

My apologies. Sir, what I was trying to say that considering you said that by FY '24, your INR 250 crores of new plants will get absorbed. And then you said that your product mix is not going to change very materially. So accordingly, for your product mix to remain similar to what it is now, the nonpremium part of the business will also have to grow to match this INR 250 crores additional turnover on the premium side is what I was asking you.

No, absolutely, you have really hit the nail.

The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Capital.

My question was on any further CapEx for the next year, if you can give us some time line and guidance on CapEx part?

Are you talking of the normal CapEx, the routine maintenance CapEx? Or are you talking about the plant expansion, what we are doing?

Plant expansions, I would be expecting something, sir.

So our total for Sandila, most of our CapEx will happen within March, okay? And for next year, we will have close to around INR 450 crores to INR 500 crores getting invested in the MDF facility. And other than that, we will have our normal routine CapEx of around INR 15 crores to INR 20 crores.

Okay, sir. And sir, any competition we are facing in this premium segment, if you can name some sir?

No, we -- there is nothing which we can really discuss or we can point out.

Okay. Okay. And previously, you gave some margin guidance, which you said that we'll be able to maintain this and not go below this margin. So that will be in the range of -- if you can quantify that, sir?

We -- this quarter, we have done 11%, if you see our adjusted core EBITDA. So I think 11% is a doable number. And as I said, the type of initiatives what we have taken with sales volume growth, of course, 1 thing which everyone doesn't speak about, I had also spoken around a year back, that we are reinvesting also a lot on the business on our processes and systems. Despite that, we have improved on our margins in the last 12 months by almost more than 1.5%. So I'm just placing that on record. And even if you will look at our EBITDA to PBT percentage also improved because our interest costs reduced substantially. That was another 1% advantage of what we got during this period. Coming back to your question, 11% is the margin which we have achieved during this quarter. And my statement is that we can only improve further from here.

Okay. Okay. And sir, last 1 from my end. Any revenue guidance for overall FY '23, if you can highlight something on that?

We're just doing our budgeting process. But if you ask me, anything less than 15% for sure is not at all acceptable. So it has to be 15% plus.

Okay. So 15% plus for FY '23, from FY '24, whatever we achieve in Q4 plus?

Yes, yes.

The next question is from the line of Arun Agarwal from Kotak Securities.

My first question is on the quarterly numbers, wherein -- can you just explain why was the profit from joint venture higher on this quarter?

Well, there is a small one-off commercial tax case where the auditors have said that we will have to take that as the income because that is a refund, which is to be seen in the next 3 to 4 months. It's around INR 1.5-odd crores.

Okay. All right. So that's 15 million out of the 26 million there.

Yes, yes.

But now, since we are ramping up capacities with the manufacturing partners, I believe that comes part of the joint venture profit side.

No, it will not come as a joint venture this. They are all like partnership firms. So whenever they will have to do this, they will do it through dividends. So that will be upstreaming of dividend because they don't fall under the definition of associate of the JV, and that's why we are using the term manufacturing partner. We have investment in all these things, which, as a company, we decided should be less than 20%, and which means it does not qualify as for the definition of the accounting standards, neither as an associate or not as a JV.

Okay. But the sales that happens from these joint ventures or the associates that we talk about, they happen first to Greenpanel, then it goes from Greenply books to the distant?

Yes, yes, yes. So in a way, it is like trading sales.

Okay. It's a part of trading sales, right. And sir, another thing is can you share...

Sorry, that's why I think in the presentation, we have started capturing that. In the presentation also, we have started capturing that separately for everyone to understand what is my PR trading purchase in sales? What is my merchant sales on account of all these manufacturing partners and my own manufacturing.

Yes, sir. We saw the thing. Okay. Sir, another question is on, can you share what sort of price hikes we have taken so far this year?

We have taken almost around 8% of price increases.

This includes the 2.5%, which you've taken in fourth quarter, right?

No, no, no. That is separate.

Okay. So if we add this, this comes to more than 10% price hike, yes?

Yes.

And then we talk about whatever volume growth numbers you have been sharing. So this taken together would look to be more than maybe 15% what you have guided for then even if we take 5-odd-percent, 5% to 7% growth, without industry that should translate into more than 15% revenue growth for you?

Yes. As of now, yes, if you add up those numbers, it's like that. But you never know the way the volatility is there in the market. Who knows it, what of the raw material prices start coming down, then again, things might be very different.

Yes. I'm talking on the numbers as of today, sir.

[Operator Instructions] Next question from the line of Udit from [indiscernible].

So just a follow up that we are mentioning that we grow above and over 5% to 6% and we had to...

Sorry to interrupt you, sir. Your voice is breaking up. We cannot hear you very clearly.

We cannot hear you.

[Operator Instructions]

Yes, sure. So I just wanted to clarify that we are talking about gaining market share from the early. So will our growth in business be more as compared to on manufacturing?

We again could not understand your later part of what you said.

He's asking will the trading business volume growth higher than the owned manufacturing.

Well, as I said, the mix may remain almost similar over a period of time, but as new capacities get added at different point of time, you may see some swing in the mix on a quarter-to-quarter basis.

Right, right. And sir, largely on the demand front, now as we are seeing the prices going up, how does it impact the demand? Or how are we seeing the demand for Q4 and coming years?

Well, the demand right now is good. Q3, of course, because of this Omicron has been, there were some headwinds. Again, some level of uncertainty, but we were able to see it through. The demand will remain good. There are certain level of uncertainties. If you see the external market is extremely, extremely challenging. You see the volatility in oil prices, the volatility in all the commodities, okay, supply chain for sure, is a disruption all along. So there are a lot of external factors for sure. But I still feel that people have taken most of these things into stride and are moving forward. So the demand will remain good going forward. We don't see much challenges.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Vijay Karpe from Bryanston Investments.

Yes. Am I audible?

Yes, yes.

My question pertains to the new plant expansion that we are doing. What I wanted to understand is does this new MDF plant has its own captive power plant as well? And how is the new UP Sandila plant different from our old plant in terms of modernization, new machinery, CapEx requirements ex the inflation?

No. Captive power, we are just doing some work. We are still not decided on that for the MDF plant. Of course, we'll not be able to do a full tire, but a reasonable fire is possible, which we are excluding. And once we finalize maybe we can always share with you. And in terms of the Sandila plant owned plant versus a JV plant, yes, technology while we will not be much superior because in terms of plant and machinery, we only guide them. But the only thing I do know that when you set up your own facilities, there are additional costs. Now in this case, for sure, when you look at the Sandila plant, we had additional investments also because there is a large chunk of land which is lying there unused, which will be used for future expansion. And then there has been additional licensing costs because we didn't have a license there. And our even overall office construction space and labor quarters and all those things are something which we do so that's where when we set up our own facilities, they become expensive compared to any of these manufacturing partners.

Okay. And what was the production numbers and sales volume for the quarter? And also, I think a few quarters where I asked this question of why we are not setting up our own plant in the south or getting into some tie-ups because after that, one of our competitors has already announced setting up a new plant in the south.

Are you talking about plywood or talking about...

Plywood.

Well, okay, of course, point taken. We are also looking at the pockets where the gaps are, and we'll definitely look at this also.

And the production and sales volume for the quarter?

Production and sales volume for the quarter. Just 1 second. It's there in the presentation, but just 1 second.

8.4 million.

Production is?

8.4 million.

8.8 million? 8.4 million, yes. Production is 8.4 million square meters, and sales volume is 15.6.

And last question from my side, is there any timber availability issue for the plywood because what I'm getting from the ground is the availability for MDF is there, but for plywood, which is -- which requires fulfilling and all, that is a little constrained.

Yes, we have seen some challenges, not purely from the availability perspective, but also from the pricing perspective. So -- and that is, again, I think it's a demand supply thing only. So when the supply is lower, the prices tend to move up, and that's where the timber prices have gone up in the last 1 year. So definitely, to some extent, that is a challenge.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial.

Yes. Just a clarification. In the last call, we talked about ESOP charge of somewhere around INR 5 crores for FY '23. But while in today's conversation, you indicated it could be 100 to 200 basis points. So if you could just clarify what is that we are looking at for FY '23 and '24 in terms of ESOP charge.

No, no. So in that call, we also clarified that, that was the cost pertaining to the last ESOP of what was being granted and there would be further which will be granted in the month of March. So there would be costs associated with that for the coming year. Okay. So keeping that in mind, we mentioned that it's better to look at around a 1% charge plus for the next 2 years.

1% for next 2 years, right?

Yes, yes. I think that will almost mostly absorb most of the costs.

And this is basically the current ESOP plants, which we have approved and not the ones which we could potentially close later.

No, no, no. It is out of the current ESOP scheme only. Yes.

The next question is from the line of Sonaal Kohli from Bowhead India.

Sir, 1 clarification. So the EBITDA margin of 10%, you're saying, the 11% you said could be your bare minimum? Is it mostly ESOP or pre-ESOP cost because as more or less recurring if pay for being tied to it or.

No. So what we are talking now referring every time is your adjusted core EBITDA margin, which is 11%.

Okay. And secondly, why would you expect your margins to be 11% constrained. You have done a price hike and presumably Q3? Or have you seen costs further on compared to Q3 and the [indiscernible] side.

Yes, yes. So that's what I mentioned that around December, we felt that the prices are slightly subdued or coming down. But in January, again, we saw it went up significantly. So the -- again, so whatever was the land we feel that we take this price increase and it will cover more than adequately. And then we see another round of increase now. If that increase is sustained increase on the cost side. then we might have to again either look at a price increase in maybe quarter 1 or it affects my margin to some extent, which we might have to absorb.

So sir, when you're talking...

That's why the 11% seems to be a base level, because we'll have operating level as to some extent, we have these volatilities. And we have been passing on this pricing free. I mean the entire industry has been passing on, okay? So keeping all these things in mind, think 11% is a number which is a base number.

So there's not the minimum numerators your base number, right?

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. Secondly, sir. You mentioned about a 15% revenue growth next year, again, for the sake of clarity for all participants. Are you referring to a normal base because the Q1 revenues are pretty low. So if I make your Q1 revenues to be normal next year, set your business will grow by 12%. So are you looking at only 3% extra growth next year? Or you're talking from your normal base that is getting a 15% growth next year?

So right now, as I said, we are still doing just started our budgeting process, okay? And as you have done some math, I've also done some math, and that gives us a comfort that maybe 7% to 8% for sure is the increase because of the disruption of 1 month. And as I said that 15% plus is for sure is the number which will come up.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Risha Bhutra ] from Anand Rathi.

I just wanted to understand, based on the production numbers slide, the capacity turns out to be 26 million square meters, while on the manufacturing excellence, it's 34.9 million square meters because of the adjustment. So there is still room for scope for enhancement of utilization levels, correct?

Yes. To some extent, yes, in certain pockets.

Yes. And overall capacity will increase to 38 -- I think 58.4 million square meter once all expansions are done.

Yes.

Sir, just wanted to understand the need for JV partners. I mean, what sort of incremental value do they add in our manufacturing process. And what kind of -- you mentioned that the plant is readily available, but since the current JV, which we are doing, the plant will be set up afresh, right? So what was the need for them? And secondly, what does raw material sourcing need for us? And where are we sourcing from? Can we backward integrate acquire forest or something of that sort?

When you're talking of the need of the JV, so let me put it so this Hapur JV or, actually, I would use the term manufacturing partner, which we have gone into is, in a way, a model, which is creating the capacity, as well as substituting my existing trade, what I am doing. So this facility, we have created mainly for our -- the value brand equity, which right now we have been buying totally, which was totally a trading model. So we are moving slightly away from the pure, pure trading model to this manufacturing partner model, which gives us much larger comfort in terms of the delivery and quality and performance, everything. Now at the same point of time, if we are able to -- in the short run we see better traction, then of course we have the trading capacities also being there. But we would like to move, to some extent, to our -- these manufacturing partner concepts for the value brand also, going forward. Because ROE is better and our comfort, what we have seen in terms of quality, in terms of delivery, in terms of logistics is always better. Raw materials sourcing, it's mainly from the North, the [indiscernible] bank itself, or the [ UP ] belt. So it's mainly from there only. Otherwise, if you see my other focus, like, for East, we have a plan, too, near Calcutta, so we do most of the sourcing in and around, and we see it -- our material, may be, which travels from [ UP ]. For Rajkot, again, we have [ Khalid Dham ] and [ UP ]. And over and above this, for Nagaland, we have our own sustained forest there. Other than this we are concentrating on the plantation site and we are continuously working on that in adding those acreage also. So over a period of time, that will be on the comfort, which we will draw to our own forestation and reforestation.

And lastly sir, in the JV, what's the scope for analyzing the state in the terms of agreement? And are these exclusive JV? I mean, the products are sold to Greenply only? Or they can sell to other entities as well?

First of all, the model remains very clear that we are not missing at increasing our stake. It doesn't -- we don't even think that way, because we want the partner also to come with that exuberance, that we've time, he can make money. And he gives that it is exclusive facility, which works only and solely for us. So we can always maintain our quality and performance and everything. We can take our systems to their doorsteps. So for them, it's learning. For them it's the peace of mind that they don't need to go to the market. For us, it's exclusivity, and for us, it's better quality, better performance and implementation of our systems and processes at their gate also.

And lastly, And lastly, if you could split the revenue into your premium category and masked category Q-on-Q as well as Y-o-Y?

I don't have it right now, premium and masked. Just 1 second, please. On a 9-month basis?

Yes, you can provide 9-month, but comparable as well..

One second.

You can provide offline as well, not an issue. And another last one. In our market dominance area, who is the next competitor?

Essentially, for sure.

Okay, okay. And where we are positioned as second? And who is the first one other than Century?

Well, look, I think it's a close #1, #2 game. I think right now, they are slightly ahead of us.

Why I'm asking this is, are we cutting down on prices to gain market share or giving the discount and rebates to the distributor and dealers so that...

No. We don't have that mindset. And I said that I don't know about the competitor, but if you would have heard me, I'm maintaining that we want to gain market share from the unorganized market, because that market segment is huge, humongous, okay? So there's no need to do this undercut and gain shares in the short run, doesn't help.

The next question is from the line of Nikhil Agarwal from VT Capital.

I needed some clarity on the trading on the trading -- on your manufacturing and trading and the partner thing. I guess, the 15.6% SGM sales that you have shown, does that include the trading sales as well?

Nikhil, what I'll do now I'll ask Gautam maybe, he'll have an offline call with you and he can explain to you.

Okay, sir. No issues.

Only 15 more entries it includes, but if you want to understand in a slightly larger detail, we can explain to you.

Okay, sir. Sir, just a couple of more questions. Like could you just send me the stake in JV that you have?

Data?

You has taken the joint ventures.

As I said, they are all less than 20%. So we try to limit it to 19%. I don't remember the exact number, but most of it would be around 19%.

Okay, sir. And sir, what was your EBITDA margin in the plywood business?

11%.

This includes all your -- the 3 categories, exclusive?

3 categories means...

With your own manufacturing, manufacturing partners and 3D?

Yes, yes. It's a blended margin, yes.

Okay. Okay. Sir, if I may just ask you one small -- one question more. Could you just tell me the combined capacity of your own -- of your trailing and manufacturing? Is it the 10 MSQM that includes your manufacturing partners, the JV that does not include the trading.

If you look at Slide #13, I think it amply clarifies most of your queries, with that you are raising. Slide #13 of the presentation, if you want to look at it, and then possibly, if you have any confusion you can still speak to Gautam. Gautam can be nice to you.

We'll take one last question, which is from the line of Dhiral Shah from PhillipCapital.

My question is pertaining to your -- the greenfield CapEx of Sandila. That sir, generally, we have seen that in plywood, the asset turnover is around 3 to 4x. But in our case, it is something around 2 to 2.2x.. So why it's such a low asset turnover...

No, no, no. I clarified this. Let me again clarify that there is first, a land cost, okay, which is from an overall piece of land since it is a new subsidiary. We had to transfer the entire land as per the UP government agreement, we have signed. So it is sitting there, but it is not getting utilized. Only 1/3 of that land is getting utilized. That itself is around INR 30 crores plus. And then we have licensing and our own factory building, where we are even doing labor quarter, and we have done. So that is another -- if you see around INR 15 crores to INR 20 crores of extra cost, which is there. So if you take out that INR 50 crores, INR 60 crores, my machinery cost will be only to the level of INR 50 crores to INR 55 crores. On that, if you will see, we will be actually around 4x, 4.5x or even more.

Okay. Sure. Both good ones, sir. And, sir, lastly, you said that we will be outperforming 5% to 7% volume growth. So this will be over a longer period of time. We're talking about maybe sustainably over the next 3 to 4 years?

Yes, yes. That's what we are eyeing at in terms of improving our market share and that should be over and above whatever is the industry growth. That is how we look at it.

[Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Bhatelia for closing comments.

So 1 question from my end. Sir, if I were preparing for a greenfield CapEx in Lucknow. And in the last 2 years, we've signed the third manufacturing partner. So like what is the thought process when you decide whether to go ahead with the greenfield or to tie up with the manufacturing partners or to purely rely on the trading model.

Always a debatable point, Karan. But how we look at it is once we had gone for those initial 2 manufacturing partners, we also mentioned that if given a chance, that is the way we want to look at, okay, in the plywood business to improve our ROE over a period of time. But we wanted the model also to stabilize slightly. We also wanted to see what goes right, what goes wrong in an arrangement like that. So that we have a certain level of learnings, which we can apply before we look at more such arrangements. But in the meanwhile, looking at the type of demand possibility, which we were looking at, and even on the cost side, we felt that we already have a chunk of land which is in the heart of raw material, and that gives us an advantage of setting up the plant and saving on the margin front. So we should not sit idle, and we should set up 1 plant so that when we have demand and growth, we should not get stuck on the supply side. So -- and now again, as I said, we had certain learnings. We are using those learnings now again and concentrating to develop a few more this manufacturing partner arrangements. And this particular piece ARPU, what we have done is purely right now from the mindset of doing -- strengthening our value segment, which is Ecotec, so which was totally on our outsourced model. and this facility will really be it up in terms of quality, productivity performance, everything. So that was the idea behind this.

Also, is it correct to assume that our plain vanilla trading model, those vendor base are finding it difficult to operate now that we have done with COVID first wave, second wave, third wave and many of them have taken a shutdown. Correct to assume that as well?

You are talking about the overall environment?

Over the plain vanilla trading model because many plywood, branded players had many outsourcing partners as well, which won a pure trading model. Correct to assume that those have taken a shutdown because of a challenging macro environment on the supply side and on the raw material sourcing as well?

Yes.

Okay. Got it. Any further questions, operator?

No, so we don't have anyone now.

Yes. So with this, we conclude the call. Any closing remarks you want to make, management team?

Yes. Thank you all for taking the time to participate in this call. In case of any further clarifications or queries, please feel free to reach to Mr. Gautam Jain. Thanks again, and goodbye.

On behalf of Asian Market Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.