Grupo de Inversiones Suramericana S.A. (GRUPOSURA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the presentation of results of the third quarter of 2021 of Grupo SURA. My name is Sylvia, and I will be your operator for today. [Operator Instructions] Please keep in mind that this teleconference is being recorded. As of now, we give the floor to Carlos Gonzalez, Manager of Investor Relations and Capital.

Good morning. Welcome to the presentation of results of the third quarter of 2021 of Grupo SURA. Today's talk is divided into 2 parts. First is a prerecorded session discussing the company's results; and second, a live Q&A session. Today, we are joined from Grupo SURA by Gonzalo Perez, the CEO; Ricardo Jaramillo, the CFO; Monica Guarin, Human Development VP; and Juan Luis Munera, Legal Affairs VP. From our subsidiaries, we are joined by Juan Fernando Uribe, Finance and Investments VP of Suramericana; and Carlos Oquendo, Corporate Finance VP of SURA Asset Management. Gonzalo, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Carlos. It's a pleasure to greet you and to present the quarterly results as of September 2021 of Grupo SURA. Thank you for joining us once more. To talk about the results, we will begin, as we usually do, by discussing the income of the companies as well as consolidated income of Grupo SURA. For us, this income proves our client acceptance of the solutions and services in the companies in which Grupo SURA invests. These consolidated results as of the end of the third quarter, total more than COP 18 trillion, up 17.2% compared to the year 2020, a year in which the results kept climbing with 2-digit figures. It's important to keep this information in mind since in the last 12 months, the increase is above 10%, reaching now COP 23.6 trillion, again, during the last 12 months. On the other hand, it's important to underscore as well that this income rises from an income from a premium issued above 13% and an income from commissions of over 15%. Indeed, as the commissions, we are talking about more than COP 300 billion of income for SURA Asset Management from voluntary products. This is important since this includes the 15% over the total of the commissions of SURA Asset Management. On the other hand, since we're ending this quarter, our equity method has increased more than 190% and reaches even levels quite similar to those of 2019. The foregoing helps reach the COP 18 trillion mentioned before as well as a 17.2% growth of income. When we talk about the company's profit, the result is COP 1.1 trillion at the end of the third quarter, a figure that truly surpasses our expectation at the beginning of this year. And here too, the profit level is closer to the same level observed in 2019, which you all will know. This profit is primarily impacted in the case of Suramericana, by the expenses and claims ratio related to COVID. It's worth underlining that by September, there is a reserve above COP 114 billion of the HMO, which has a direct impact on the income statement of the HMO and goes directly to the results. Net reserve is 75% of an account receivable recognized by the government for COVID expenses. So the government issues regulations based on the expenses and claims ratio related to COVID observed by HMOs and recognize all the expenses above 100% of the losses of the HMO. In this case, those COP 114 billion are pending recognition by the government and resolution. Let me clarify, those COP 114 billion are 75% of what's being requested from the government. Why? Because our external auditor, since this is an account receivable, considers that the best criteria is to reserve 75%. The expectation, as shown in 2020 and 2021, is to recover 100% of the account since the government has recognized 100% of it. However, this is a reserve that our external auditor deems prudent and the COP 114 billion, which impacts the expenses as well. In this sense, expense is impacted by 3.2%. So if we exclude the COP 114 billion, expense will grow 1.5% against the company's income, which is growing 17.2%. Okay. There's another impact that Ricardo Jaramillo will be explaining ahead, the deferred tax that we will have by the end of September. That is of COP 47 billion. Ricardo will explain this item in detail ahead. You can say that this is the second most relevant impact for the end of the third quarter this year. These profits are observed by us based on the figures seen in 2021. And with an expectation that differs from what -- from the one that we had in the beginning of the year. We believe that our profits are backed by our sound and diversified portfolio. This is how we read the company's results at the end of the third quarter, along with those of 2020. Again it's diversified and sound portfolio, which has been resilient to the pandemic. And once more, this plays results quite similar to those of 2019. On the other hand, throughout the program and strategic relevance we have, we are constantly seeking for investors and shareholders of Grupo SURA. And this is worth repeating. Our purpose is complex, yes, but it relies on creating harmonious value for society as well as a return that exceeds capital costs for our shareholders and investors. Both things should be done and developed and that's our strategic goal and what we've worked for day in and day out. This means that in our stock acquisition program, which you've been following, we are reaching now COP 50 billion in stock acquisition at the end of September 2021. And this figure provides an internal return rate of about 37%. This means a capital assignment that creates value for our shareholders. On the other hand, as we have mentioned before, reducing our debt is another strategic purpose we have, aimed to reduce the cost of capital and systematically continue reducing the debt. Indeed, in this particular case, SURA Asset Management has reduced its debt more than COP 600 billion this year. And on the consolidated statement, we can still have an impact, but our path is to continue having a better return over the cost of capital. And lastly, our focus is to create value for our shareholders and to have a company that's still listed a company which no matter who, be it individuals or small enterprises, can have access to the democratization of capital and have led us to 2 actions, which you surely are aware of. One is the subscription of the share of Grupo SURA in the stock market of Chile. I'm sure you know about this. We saw more opportunities for the marketability of our stock and a larger number of persons participating in it as in the case of Chile, where we have 2 companies of insurance and of SURA Asset Management, all to expand our capital markets. Second, and also very important for us, is our alliance with Trii, which brings 1,400 new shareholders to the company. Beyond the amount of the investments, it is our capability to reach the entire population today in Colombia, and we hold that tomorrow in Latin America. Indeed, we are reaching 181 municipalities with our alliance with Trii. And there are very small municipalities in Colombia that now have individuals investing in Grupo SURA. And we believe that if our purpose is to create value for society and increase marketability to our stock, but most importantly, we need to value our society and expand our market share, and this is relevant. So these are the results at September 2021 we have for you. Indeed they are way above what we expected in terms of income. And also net profit with an expense management that is relevant of 3.2% or 1.5% excluding the reserve made for the HMO, in which the monthly indicator of expenses is lower than what we observed a year ago. It's really a pleasure to be with you today. Now I'll give the floor to the Ricardo Jaramillo, and I'll see you again for the Q&A session. Before giving the floor to Ricardo. I'd like to mention the request of the takeover bid, which we all heard about on Wednesday evening. Like everybody else, we were made aware of this takeover bid that same evening by the financial superintendent. The information we have is the same information that the public has regarding the request presented for the takeover bid. And on this matter and in accordance with our corporate governance and with the laws in general, we, as shareholders, of Grupo Nutresa are studying the case and studying the development of this request made to the financial superintendent. Logically, we are studying and analyzing our position as shareholders of Grupo Nutresa. Thank you. And now let's see Ricardo.

Thanks, Gonzalo, and greetings to everyone joining us today. I invite you to take a closer look at the figures of Grupo SURA during the third quarter on Slide 6, where we can see the consolidated income statement. Here we can see a favorable development on the net profit in the quarter, mainly driven by increased premiums and commissions, significant improvement in the equity method. And as we have mentioned in prior quarters, a tight control of expenses. This led us to reach COP 2.7 trillion in new income compared to 2020 figures, up 17.4% and with an operating profit of COP 1.9 trillion, up 37.3%. Lastly, a net earning of COP 1.1 trillion, which is higher than in 2020 of COP 398 billion, a difference of COP 720 billion. This shows a net profit much closer to the results of 2019 before the pandemic than of 2020. Let's look at the income closely. First, we need to highlight the growth of our 2 business lines of Suramericana and SURA Asset Management. Premiums issued had a great growth of 13.8%. Ahead we'll see in terms of Suramericana that this growth is seen throughout the region and in every segment, income from commissions displays good growth as well as regarding savings for retirement and voluntary sectors and businesses, which Gonzalo mentioned, up 50.7%. And the equity method that we see closely in another slide, which reached COP 985 billion, growing 191%. This is mainly driven by the bank's recovery. And again, we will see this closely ahead. With regards to expenses, it is worth mentioning that operating expenses have been under control. Excluding the effect of the reserve that Gonzalo mentioned, expenses would be growing 1.5%, which is below the inflation of Colombia. This means a decrease in real terms and a trend we have been showing throughout prior quarters. Therefore our growth is higher than expenses, displaying a better operating margin in the company from the viewpoint of the consolidated statements. Claims ratio is also worth mentioning, and we will see this ahead in Suramericana, of COP 1.5 trillion, up 26% of retained losses. This is tied, of course, to COVID-19. Later we'll see in each segment, how this figure has evolved. We also want to discuss the deferred tax that Gonzalo mentioned in his introduction. You know that due to the Social Investment Act, the tax rate increased and that increase throughout the companies of the portfolio had an impact. We had to recognize in the deferred tax, the higher tax we have to pay in coming years. Pertaining to Grupo SURA and its subsidiaries, this was a very significant impact. However, among the other companies related Bancolombia, Grupo Argos and Grupo Nutresa, the impact was more significant, affecting the equity method by COP 44 billion, and its total impact on the financial statement is of COP 47 billion. We understand that the government gave the option to take that deferred tax to the ORI, but we are taking it through the international line, through the ERI or the integrated income statement. Let's move on, please, to Slide 7. As said before, the equity method displays good dynamics, which backs the importance of the diversification. This portfolio here has, again, and you can see it on the lower note, the impact of COP 44 billion. It shows that this quarter is slightly lower than the previous quarter. However, on the lower graph, you can see that we have an average in the last 3 quarters of COP 328 billion of the method, an average that exceeds that of 2019. Indeed, we are comparing a lot with 2019 since it's important to underline the recovery of these figures compared to what we saw in the company before the impact of COVID-19. This graph clearly shows the quarters. For us, the recovery is faster than expected. We will see this when we discuss the different companies. Let's move on, please, to Slide 8. Here we want to shed light on the dynamics and the reduction of the operating expenses proportional to income. It's worth stating that we've made several changes on how we registered these expenses that can have an impact on this indicator. The purpose is to better show how we see the efficiency indicator. We understand that this can have an impact on the comparability you've been using in previous quarters. But again, it reflects better the efficiency. And we will be showing it with more detail as of today. On this slide, we can highlight a total growth of 3.2%. And if we exclude the effect of the reserve, this item is 1.5%. There is a slight increase of several expenses in the quarter, which is mainly related to commercial expenses, or also aligned with the growth dynamics of the businesses. We can see 420 basis points of improved efficiency when compared to the income related to these expenses. This is, again, a margin quite significant, which without this reserve, going back to what Gonzalo said about the expectations for year-end. The efficiency indicator today is at 41.7%, while this indicator was 46.6% in the third quarter of 2020. Let's move on to Slide 9, which shows the increased net profit in the quarter, understanding that this is mainly driven by the result of the equity method and the profit level of SURA Asset Management. On this graph, you can see that the profit in the third quarter of 2021 was COP 398 billion. Suramericana is subtracting close to COP 298 billion, including the reserve we mentioned before. While SURA Asset Management is adding COP 268 billion, including the results of Proteccion, what we saw in the consolidated -- in the equity method, here, we have an equity method of COP 604 billion, mainly from the related companies of Bancolombia, Grupo Argos and Grupo Nutresa. On the other hand, Grupo SURA has increased COP 147 billion for managing exchange coverages. While in others, are COP 44 billion, primarily due to 2 effects. Clover Health from the SURA Ventures program, which we sold in the previous quarter and the profit gain from MoneyLion, which was listed as well in the SURA Ventures program. Both companies add up to COP 44 billion for a differential of COP 1.11 trillion, and the accumulated up 181%, as you can see on this slide. Let's move on to Slide 11, with the income statement of Suramericana. Here, we want to highlight the sound commercial dynamics of this company and how the premiums issued grew 14.4% in the accumulated and reached COP 15.4 trillion. As far as the semester, premiums reached COP 5.7 trillion. And when compared to the third quarter of 2020, it has increased 21%. So this gives us an important liquidity and the company's aim to keep a sound commercial growth. Moving on to the graph of the claims ratio, we have important messages to share. First, we are aware that this item remains high. However, the client's ratio is improving from 71% to 70%. And this point -- single point is significant when we talk about this volume of premiums. In addition, when we see in the bars, a quarter up COP 352 billion related to COVID, we see that this quarter shows the lowest figure of claims ratio related to COVID, which is a sign that is tied to the diseases, but it's also a sign of the many benefits gained from the vaccination and the current levels of the pandemic. The technical result of Suramericana reached COP 1.2 trillion. And if we give back the reserve, it would be COP 1.3 trillion, which is practically the same technical result displayed last year, which is 7% of premiums issued and is obviously impacted by that claims ratio. A major effort has been made in administrative expenses. Suramericana has increased these expenses, 3.8%, a figure below or close to inflation. And the indicator of expenses is dropping 13.4% to 11.3%, showing the improved margin of the company revenue. Revenue from investments is sliding 16.6%, mainly due to higher rates, particularly in Chile and Mexico, which are displaying lower monetary dynamics along with other countries. And this shows that Suramericana displays a net profit of COP 4 billion, just as referenced. Now I invite you to move on to Slide 12. The profit of COP 4 billion, excluding the reserve we've talked about, would be close to COP 118 billion. On this Slide 12, we can see the profit of different segments. Life is positive. Casualty is positive. The segment of life is close to 0 due to the reserve. And there are obviously expenses related to the corporate segments such as operating expenses, interest, et cetera. But the profits segments are positive. I'd like to underline the liquidity and soundness of solvency that Gonzalo mentioned. Since the pandemic began, this indicator has been constantly followed. And despite so many months of the pandemic and the relevant amounts of claims ratio, it has a good position. Now let's take a look at the graph on the lower right-hand side of the quarterly development. Here, we can see that the most complex quarter was the last quarter of 2020, followed by a recovery. And in this quarter, again, excluding the reserve, which we expect can be reversed in these months, leads to a profit of COP 119 billion, showing the path of recovery of Suramericana. Let's move on to Slide 13, which provides details of the life segment. Here, we see improvements in claims ratio as well as the result of the evolution of the pandemic. While the premiums issued, double-digit growth. Here's a growth of 15.3% in premiums, an improvement of 700 basis points in claims ratio. The premiums from labor risks of the workers' compensation business had a significant growth compared to the third quarter of 2020. This shows labor dynamics that improve in Colombia. And on the lower left-hand side graph, we can see a control of expenses and lower commissions. Lower commissions, especially related to a shift in the mix of channels, but they still improved since 380 basis points is quite relevant. And the same goes with expenses with 270 basis points of improvement. I had said that revenue from investments have an impact in the consolidated. However, when we look at the portfolio of life, mainly in Colombia, improvements are observed quarter after quarter. This ended in the previous quarter with COP 195 billion, while the profit of the segment is also better than previous quarters, reaching COP 93 billion. So the segment of life began to improve significantly in different indicators with the progress observed of the pandemic. Let's move on, please, to Slide 14, which is a close look of the casualty segment. Here, we highlight the growth of premiums of 8%. Cars are growing 12.6%. And there are effects of multiannual policy mainly in Chile. However, we also need to underline the increased claims ratio of this segment, which is primarily due to frequency and severity. A specific item is the increase of prices of car parts tied to the restriction of supply chains, which we have all heard about, and obviously, with the effect of the exchange rates. When we observe the different indicators of expenses as a proportion of the segment's revenue, administration expenses improved close to 100 basis points compared to the previous quarter. We see an improvement of 200 basis points in expenses of commissions and an increase of technical expenses of 200 basis points. So overall, on the bottom of the slide, we can see the combined reason, has an increase of 400 basis points from 106% to 110%, mainly related to the claims ratio increased, we mentioned before. We must highlight that in this segment, as we mentioned in other quarters, there is close to COP 26 billion of impact mainly related to COVID in the companies in Mexico, Panama and Brazil, which are accounted for in this segment since the origin of these companies after acquiring RSA were mainly casualties and these have gradually added life solutions. In net profit, the figure so far this year is COP 26 billion, which is still positive even if the quarter's profit was close to 0 at negative COP 7 billion. Slide 15 show details of the health segment, pointing out an accelerated growth of premiums issued. The growth is of COP 600 billion compared to the third quarter of 2020, which was 39%. This growth is observed throughout different companies involved in this segment. We've got the HMO, the IPS and Diagnostic Aids. We can see the expense control on the top right graph with an effort to improve claims ratio from 92.1% to 88.3% this last quarter as well as a considerable improvement of the indicator of expenses of the entire segment. On the lower left graph, we can see the basic reserve that we talked about. Basically, the financial statements recognized an account receivable in the second quarter of COP 880 billion and in the third quarter of COP 276 billion. This gives a total of COP 364 billion in those accounts pending. And of those COP 364 billion, COP 213 billion have been paid, while COP 152 billion are currently discussed with the government. And that's where the 75% reserve rises from. Now let's talk about SURA Asset Management. Slide 17 shows the company's income statement this quarter. First, we see a significant growth of operating income, backed by the growth of commissions and double-digit in the different segments of savings for retirements and voluntary businesses. Revenue from commissions increased 15.8%, reaching COP 684 billion in the quarter, up 16.8% quarter-to-quarter. Revenue from reserves have been affected compared to the year before, mainly due to higher interest rates in Chile and Mexico. And we also observed a significant recovery of our equity method in Proteccion with an increase of COP 45 billion to COP 61 billion. With this, SURA Asset Management reached a revenue of COP 2.2 trillion, up 18.3%. The operating expenses grew 9.4%. We want to highlight that when we look at this in the currency of each country, the growth is 4.8%, which is aligned with the inflation rates of the region and below the growth of revenue, which in this company shows considerable improvements of this margin. Here we want to underline the operating earnings, excluding the reserve, which is the dotted line on the top right graph, which is reaching COP 284 billion. This profit is even higher than that of 2019, excluding the reserve, with a 42% growth in the quarter and an accumulated of 52% compared to the year before. The company's net earnings reached COP 525 billion, up 104%. And it's very important to underline that the company's variation or growth shows that Investment SURA and Investment Management, which are the voluntary lines, contribute COP 63 billion of more profit compared to the year before. Slide 18 shows details of savings for retirement. We can point out the sound performance backed by the growth of income from commissions and a good recovery of the salary base throughout the region. Let's begin with the AUMs, which reached COP 464 trillion. That is COP 16 trillion less than the previous quarter. However, we should keep in mind that in the past 12 months, AUMs were impacted by the withdrawals made in Chile and Peru of COP 36.5 trillion. Without this impact, AUMs would be growing 7.6%. On the upper right-hand graph is income from commissions, which is partly related to flows and to AUMs. Total growth here is 15.6% in pesos and a growth of 8.8% in local currency. It's worth underlining that AUMs here are mainly in Mexico and growing local currencies at 3.7%. While in the other countries, they grow 14.8%, mainly driven by Chile. On the lower left hand graph, we can see the growth of each of the countries. Mexico is the lowest, but Chile or Peru or Uruguay display growth close to 10%, 16% and 19%. It is also worth underlining, the companies continues controlling the expenses, as shown by the 53.3% indicator to maintain the efficiency of total expenses of the segment. Now let's move on to Slide 19, that show details of Inversiones SURA and SURA Investment Management, 2 companies which are part of the voluntary business. Let's begin by showing that it's the fourth quarter in a row with a positive profit backed by an accelerated growth of income, which, in turn, comes from the AUMs, which grew in the year 9.6%. In local currency 11.3% and increased clients of 12%, reaching assets under management of COP 71.4 million (sic) [ COP 71.4 billion ], a positive net flow of COP 600 million in the quarter and a COP 1.3 trillion in the year, and this is reflected by the increased income from commissions, which grew 23.6% in the quarter, 31.3% in the year. This income is reaching COP 300 billion, which is 15% of the income from total commissions of SURA Asset Management. On the lower right-hand graph is the operating margin we mentioned. This is the fourth quarter with operating profit so far this year, it adds up to COP 30 billion, showing that the company is increasingly overcoming the breakeven point discussed in previous quarters. This is a close explanation of the figures of Grupo SURA, Suramericana and SURA Asset Management. So let's begin the Q&A session.

Thank you. As of now, we begin the live Q&A session. We'll begin receiving the questions made in Spanish. For those that are in the English channel or connected by web, please send us your questions through the platform in writing. We will be answering them later on. [Operator Instructions] We have a question, [indiscernible] from Davivienda Corredores.

First of all, thank you for your presentation. I have one question really related to the takeover bid. I understand that -- and you already mentioned it, Gonzalo, but you're still making an analysis of this transaction. But I would like to know, for you, is there a price independent of the price that we know of publicly? Is there a price that Grupo SURA is willing to sell Grupo Nutresa for? Or is there no price whatsoever?

[ Katherine ], thank you for your question. And as we said before, first, the information we have is the same as everybody else's about this takeover bid, and we don't believe that we have any more information. So right now, we don't have a position as Grupo SURA regarding that takeover bid. Regarding price, in particular, the analysis really as administrators at Grupo SURA are -- will be comprehensive and also will depend on our corporate governance, and we have to keep in mind our long-term strategies. So we will still be analyzing this situation as Grupo SURA, and we'll be making a statement ahead. But for now, we have no other information than what has been publicly provided so far. And if this is approved, we will sit down and study this situation according to our corporate governance, the laws of Colombia.

We have [ Juliana Luca ] from Davivienda Corredores.

Evidently, I had questions about the takeover bid, but these were answered. However, I'd like to know more about or more details about the expenses of all the business lines because with regards to Suramericana and SURA Asset Management, really about how you've reached those efficiency levels? And the performance of Suramericana and SURA Asset Management due to the sensitivity of the results, especially Suramericana, regarding the performance of the fixed income in Latin America.

Thank you for your question. Let me provide you a short answer, and then I'll give the floor to my colleagues. Philosophically, we for some time talk about contractions in the center and expansions in the periphery. So this means that all of the management that we've made of expenses is one that does not interrupt the creation of value to clients and channels. This is the periphery. And this is important because managing expenses should not disturb in any way the growth of the companies to create value for clients and our shareholders and society at large. This has to do with the strategy that we've been explaining since last year. So firstly, we have to say that all the operations at Suramericana, Grupo SURA and SURA Asset Management are based on not touching client, society or channels. And there's a systematic strategy of operating efficiency, which has to do with competitiveness. Last year, we were talking about, we discussed indicators today, we gave them. And this precisely is not only to be very systematic, but very competitive as well. And I'd like to underline again that we can never go against the development of our business. And proof of this is that both Suramericana and SURA Asset Management are showing income levels that are very positive. And therefore we still have good investments to expand our companies. So let me give the floor to my colleagues, Ricardo, Juan and Carlos Oquendo.

Perfect, Gonzalo. Well, to complement what Gonzalo said, when it comes to Suramericana, we have been working to transform our operating model. And what we've learned during the last 1.5 years, you can see fundamental changes when it comes to logistics to locations. Looking at fees, also trips, travels made, and that has reduced expenses. And also, as Gonzalo said, when it comes to have more value for our clients, we're looking at different channels used or implementing direct channels. And technology platforms, to have better dynamics, not only with clients, but also with shareholders. So this is the operating model that we are using to create the value we need for our clients, making use of this -- good use of this transformation we're living. Carlos Oquendo, would you like to add something?

I would like to add that from SURA Asset Management, I think that the new ARP teams, which took place 1.5 years ago, has been completed. So we have seen no growth there. Also the investments made with -- in digital channels, that investment has already been made. And also we found ways of operating to reduce expenses and leases, we have the chance of having commercial flows using digital channels. So the expenses of acquisition are not as high. So I believe that this scale that the business has reached, of APR, does not increase expenses. And in this business, we've had the chance to find new ways of operating that are much more efficient that would summarize what we've done.

I would like to add something that's fundamental. In the reduction of expenses, there is a limit, like we all know. For instance, what Fernando has mentioned of changing the operating model has been fundamental. So as the expenses can reach levels or indicators quite efficient. We clearly are aware that especially with the age and all of SURA, we have a much more efficiency, 40%. And without this efficiency, we would have different income statement. So this is made by reducing very particular expenses. And as Fernando, also, changing operating models, justify disappearing some processes, adding others. And among other things, we do this constantly when it comes to managing these companies.

I'd like to also add, it's very important what we've talked about in the past. This company has made a significant expansion with the regional platform. So this means not only to increase our income, but to have a structure of our base that's much more efficient. So we -- in each one of our businesses, we have growths that are significant, that are controlled as well, controlling our expenses, understanding, of course, that we have added value, but that on a long-term basis, the companies should be much more efficient. And also, we have to look at the numbers. When it comes to Suramericana today, we -- and if we look to expenses related to COVID, that shows our soundness. Also we see improved profitability levels by Suramericana. But that shows us how we're growing 15%, and we have very controlled expenses. This is a great opportunity in terms of changing that operating model.

Also with regards to your question as to Suramericana. This is -- the story is that it was always a company of returns, based on returns over equity. And this has always been creating value. In the past 2 decades, in 2010, we're talking about returns of almost 17%. But with the claims ratio today are very similar to those back then. In 2019, we had the first impact on the HMO, which was a tax on the life business. These were 2 particular things that happened in 2019. And there was a reduction of the profit of the company for the first time to standards of COP 360 billion in 2019. And then with the pandemic, we had an impact of COP 3.4 billion. So when we talk about the profitability of the asset, as Ricardo mentioned, we're talking about 2 particular years, yes, but this Suramericana has always created value. And it's going back to the normal claims ratio levels with -- to the point of without COVID. And we had returns that were higher for capital during the first and second decade, until 2018, really. And here you can see 200 basis points of a return that is quite good because of those specific events over the profit of the asset, that of Suramericana, which you can see a systematic control of expense. This is like part of a culture of the company. And we believe that for 2022, things will be different and in '23 and '24, we will be close -- very close to the normalcy of Suramericana. When it comes to investments and the fixed income...

Juliana, with regards to your second question about fixed income, our expectation on the profitability of our portfolios. It's important to understand that in the strategy of Suramericana, we have an investment strategy that goes hand-in-hand with liability. That's part of our business. And so here, we look at the assets and liabilities. Obviously, we've been looking at the effects of the higher inflations that hurt portfolios in certain countries, which are valued at the market rate. But we've been shortening durations. In some countries, we have good liquidity. We're taking advantage of this good scale to have coverages for longer periods of time. And we see negative effects that are related to liabilities. So somehow, this shows us more organic results or better on a long-term basis. Something else that's important is that we are about to have maturities in marketable paper. So right now, we have peace of mind because these papers will be meeting their period and our holdings of them. So within this period, we can have the recovery of the profitability we need. Most of the portfolio is in Colombia, and we classify this portfolio. And we are aware of the volatility, especially of the portfolios of long duration. And we guarantee acquisition rates of those papers guaranteeing the liabilities of life, really requires. So this is all independent of the market rates. We have peace of mind right now, what we see regarding rates, but ahead since -- because of the maturity of these papers, we believe that we will have good recovery. Something that's very positive is that the new resources that we are receiving and the dynamics from that growth of our premiums has shown very good higher figures. And they go hand-in-hand with our strategy.

I'd like to add, this is part of the risk management of the company. As Juan has explained, the fact of looking at long-term processes gives us profitability. Looking at the volatility of the market on a short-term basis is dangerous. But with that investment, looking at everything on a long-term basis, our competitiveness and our income and our expenses shows that the company is sustainable. And that we're taking very good look at our long-term liabilities, and that this is fundamental because our responsibility is for 4 years. So in 4 years, the idea is to have good levels of profitability. And looking at things on a quarterly basis or on a yearly basis, gives us an integrated risk management system that we insist, especially for Suramericana, has grown very well in a very hard year like that of 2020. And that we have been hit hard because of the pandemic that was unforeseen and in such volatilities of the marketplace.

Next question, Daniel Guardiola from BGT (sic) [ BTG ].

I have several questions. I was looking at the contribution of different sectors to a net profit of the consolidated group. And it's curious that the contribution of Grupo Nutresa year against year fell almost 21%. And I think it's curious that the results of the company in terms of net profit, not so much. Could you give us an idea of that lower contribution to the consolidated from Grupo Nutresa? Second question has to do with Nutresa as well. And I'd like to understand, strategically, on a medium and long-term basis, how do you see up Grupo Nutresa and its ties or its links to Grupo SURA? And Ricardo talked about the insurance. Ricardo was talking about the ROE of Suramericana without the COVID. Could you give us the settings without the COVID or controlled pandemic? And my third question, I'd like to understand your vision of the Chilean pension system on a short-term basis, especially keeping in mind all the political pressure, Chile is changing the effect of the 3 withdrawals and perhaps the force will take place, building the system and the impacts do you expect in the future of this on your business regarding pensions in Chile?