Grupo de Inversiones Suramericana S.A. (GRUPOSURA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Today, we will have a presentation in 2 sections. First, we'll be looking at a pre-recorded session for the financial results, and then we'll have a live session for questions and answers. Right now, we have Gonzalo Perez, President of SURA Paris; Juan Luis Múnera, the Vice President of Legal Affairs; Jairo Velasquez, Corporate auditor; Carlos Oquendo, Vice President of Corporate Finance of SURA's Management; and [indiscernible], Vice President of Finance and Investments in Suramericana. I'll give the floor now to Gonzalo Perez. Thank you for being with us.

Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, once again, for being with us for the delivery of results for the fourth quarter of 2022. 2022 as a whole for Grupo SURA. Grupo SURA in 2022 had a positive evolution for all the results and investments. Our total revenue for the company for the previous year were COP 31.4 trillion, a historical maximum and the natural compound growth of between [ 23 ] or 16.6%. The revenue for 2022 are higher by COP 6.5 trillion what we had in 2021. So we created a new company for COP 6.5 billion in 2022. And net profits of the controller in the previous year was COP 2.91 trillion, a historical record as well, 47% higher than the net profits for 2021, greater than the expected growth. Variable projected, which is partially between 10% and 15% for 2022. All of this is supported by a better performance from the -- than expected for all the components in our portfolio. For 2023, we expect net profits for the controller will be increasing between 10% and 15% at the net debt toward our dividends, which was 3.9x last year. In 2023, we will be at a little bit below 3x the dividends due to an effort of 2 years of the debt together with higher dividends from our investors -- investments that we'll be receiving this year. This moves us to our objective of having net debt to adjusted ROE vis-à-vis capital cost of 9.9%, which was we had in 2021 and which we are also expecting for 2023, we have between 9% and 10%, close to the cost of capital for the previous year. There are some significant effects during the last quarter that we want to show you in this statement of results. First, let's talk about the reform of health in Colombia. For us, it's very important for health to be focused on people. That is the reason for our existence. We want to speak about existence when we're in this company of health in Colombia. Sustainability for the system is a key factor and the sale component is a priority for the company. In its administration, we know risk management prevention, provide benefits and coverage. And this is what we want to keep, and we want to provide not only for Colombia but also Latin America. The effect on profits would be a local effect, whatever the reform of to help one might be because the net loss of net EPS in SURA was COP 139 billion. That is not a risk that we are looking after. It's not some of the results is to taking care of our members were 5.2 million people, que está country in turn should have a sound system for coverage of hopefully all inhibitors in economy. That is our commitment, which will be providing with the knowledge we are committed over the past several years. It's also important as an important effect the Fitch maintains our Grupo SURA's rate as with a stable outlook with the following considerations: a sound investment portfolio with an adequate credit quality. The outlook for increase dividends from Grupo SURA and a decrease in the leverage or proper liquidity. Fitch confirms also that our credit rating of BB+ with a stable outlook. It's also important that Fitch itself been recently confirmed the rating for SURA Asset Management. The sustainability index for Dow Jones Sustainability Index. The company had a rate higher than 99% than companies evaluated in the diverse financial systems and capital markets. This is the only Latin American origin company in this world index. It's very important. The evaluation for 2022, we had some outstanding results in issues such as crisis and risk management, business ethics, environmental and social reporting, attraction and retaining a talent and corporate citizenship. In addition to the global measurement, Grupo SURA is also part in 2022 of the Dow Jones Sustainability Index and Emerging Markets and in the MILA index. In the Bloomberg Gender Equality Index, it's for the first time we're part of that. Either in external, it's our evaluation based on reported public information. This inclusion reflects the actions of Grupo Sura Asset Management and validates the commitment to integrated management of our human capital. Grupo Sura 144 companies worldwide that are included in this global index in 2023 with the performance that went up vis-a-vis the evaluation of the previous year. In climate change management, Grupo SURA's higher than average of the global average according to CDP report for 2022. It move 2 levels in its performance by getting B-, in which shows that we are taking actual and coordinated actions. This external evaluation had a reduction in scope and governance business strategy, financial planning and scenario analysis. The evaluation recognized at the actions of Grupo SURA in its affiliates Grupo's Sura Asset Management at Suramericana, whereas affiliates in Latin America. And as essentially evaluation for center inputs, they updated their rating of our environmental, social and governance issues in Grupo SURA. This shows that Grupo SURA has some processes that allow it to include ESG practices in risk management and compensation. It also reflects the entranche of Grupo [indiscernible] in management social risk in the Latin American context. We have the management of with the positive impact of the company in the territories where we have a presence. The evaluation improved the natural capital, mostly due to -- as mentioned of the affiliate companies in [indiscernible] the [ core ], financed carbon low footprint and the evaluation of environment companies and other companies and the portfolio. Also the [ TCFD ] as a framework for climate reporting. Social capital, we have a recognition of advances in closing the gap of salaries and gender. We have born practices like transparency and reporting and a decrease in the devaluation of governance instances, independent experiences and seniority of the Board of Directors because of what the company has been doing over the past several months. There's roughly 66 over 100, which is higher than the average for Latin America, for North America, Asia and very close to the average [Audio Gap] for Europe and you know it's the content that is most advice in this area. These results of the analysis provide valuable indications to continue advancing in [Audio Gap] management our social, natural and financial capital. I want to give the floor to Jhon Jairo Velasquez, our Internal Auditor.

Thank you, Gonzalo. [Audio Gap] as we said to the market in February 17, the Auditing and Finance Committee of Grupo SURA following the final report presented by agent Kroll. This process was carried down because of a complaint filed by a member of the Board of Directors for events supposed related to accounting fraud and about disclosure of agreements with contracts with the shareholders. After looking at the last 12 years of contracts and co-investors, we did not find any evidence of the -- an assumed accounting fraud or the management or mismanagement of SURA's management nor Suramericana or the super -- financial superintendents or anyone who has matured the company. Kroll is one of the main suppliers of professional services and digital products related to valuations [Audio Gap] solutions for good corporate and governance, risk management and fostering transparency with 100 years in the market. And strengthened by the [indiscernible] premises. After the final report carried out by Kroll, most of the Board of Directors authorized are communicating the results to the market. Well I also report to a communication from what was usually to be an internal use only and which is probably in the media recently, the issues there are facts and took place in 2022, and they were duly dealt within the corporate instances and about which we implemented the improvement plans that were verified, accepted by the auditor. This type of private communication is part of the working relationship between the auditor and the auditing committee and the management for continuous improvement of the internal control, which is the commitment of Grupo SURA, which has been positively valued by supervisory entities. The company doesn't know why this communication was published with the [indiscernible] for only the internal use for the President and the Board of Directors and some people inside the Board of the company and which shouldn't be used by any other individuals because of might risk of de-contextualizing that. I give the floor to Ricardo Jaramillo to continue with the results for the fourth quarter.

Thank you, Jhon. Special greeting to all those who are connected to this call. We'll look in details of the most important details at the close of the Gruposura management in its businesses. We think it's very important to start with a context of the transaction for protection integration, as you know because this will have important implications for what we discussed here, but also for the consolidation and the future delivery of results. Remember that we told now our market that in November, we capitalized protection by close to COP 238 billion by SURA Asset Manage and we acquired 52.9% of the company. That is, we got a controlled position. Later, we split the company of the equity of protection by COP 785 billion in the split were as from another -- as an insurance company focused on annuities. And later in December SURA Asset Management purchase share from some minority shareholders to reach 73.5% ownership in as well as an insurance company. This is important for 2 main reasons. First, because of the benefits that the creation of this insurance company has or this operation that I'm telling you about. First, recognizing that the government does to the slide between -- the difference between the increase in minimum wage and inflation. This is recognized for the insurance companies. And in 2022, this meant COP 104,000 billion for the group as a whole. Second, the mutuality that we have in an insurance company. The third is some tax benefits that Proteccion might have associated with vis-a-vis relationship with us as SURA. And we have to understand the implication from the point of view of the financial statements of Grupo SURA, SURA Asset Management. How did we account for Proteccion? Proteccion was used to had method -- participation method it was just less than 50%. So as you remember, we only added the percentage of the profits that represented a 48% in the participation method. Now by having 52.9% of the company, we consolidated the other affiliates. We add line by line in the different accounts, both from the sustainability results and the balance sheet. Also with [indiscernible]. So comparability is important. Besides, since we have 52.9% of the company, at the end there's both the SURA Asset Management. And in Grupo SURA, there's a minority percentage associated with other 149%, which begins to account -- can see the difference between the net profits of Grupo SURA and the controlling entity is a little bigger. This has some comparability challenges that we will explain as best we can, so that you can understand what is the impact of the transaction? And what are the current statement of business set of without that noise associated with the transaction. In the graph in the lower part, we see the relevant of personnel with respect to the weight of the premiums. Total premiums by company, we see that to Suramericana is 85% of the company premiums and Asulado represents 14% with COP 4.2 billion in premiums. Keep in mind because these premiums are mostly associated with annuities of the members and others [indiscernible] plus the outstanding debt. These are premiums from annuities for -- from associates. Let's go to Page 10. Page 10 shows the detailed consolidated statement result for Grupo SURA. Point out certain things. In 2022, we had a key year where we consolidate the recovery of many businesses that we had, they impacted by -- from previous years by the pandemic. We went over the expectations at the beginning of the year. This evolution was seen month-by-month, and we can provide you results -- very satisfactory results, even in a political and economic environment, which is challenging in most of the region. For Grupo SURA, it's the first time that the net profit or exchange to COP 1 trillion. We see a net profit of the controlling, [ 47% ] growth, and we see operating revenue of COP 31.4 trillion, a growth of 6.5% vis-a-vis the previous year. I want to point out that in these 2 graphs, the good results from the fourth quarter, both revenue, total revenue and net profit, COP 9.688 trillion. This has effect came from the tax and the protection, but these are figures that we are very important to be able to reach these numbers that we see as consolidated. When we analyze revenue, we find that the different revenue lines that we have and what we're seeing, which are from premiums issued, commissions participation method and investments, you can see some healthy growth. Perhaps the biggest growth that we see here is in participation method 46%, COP 644,000 billion more than the previous year, and we'll see details later. The premiums issued grew 41%. Some impact from the transaction with Protección in some other. What we've seen is the retained premiums. It's 26% growth. When we look at Suramericana, we'll see better -- the premiums, as well as the revenue from commissions, which are growing at 8.49%. It also has some impact from the consolidation of Protección, and we will just see 2 businesses SURA Asset Manage later on. In the loss rates, we must -- will see the different segments, but it was percent that was 22% operating expenses of 22%, which is -- which show second expenditure control and some variable expenditures, which grew as the first lines of revenue grow. This to give us an operating profit of COP 30.7 trillion, which is very significant vis-a-vis the previous years with COP 1 trillion more in our operating profits. I have to point out also that in the financial results you see a significant increase. We were impacted as well by the increase in rates of interest. We see a [Audio Gap] higher expenditure financial expenses more than in 2021 when it gives us the financial net results. Go to Page 12, details of Suramericana. Starting with the message that I think is very important. It's a real for recovering after 2021, which were very complicated because of the pandemic. 2021, the company ended with a profit -- net profit was COP 33 billion now we're getting to COP 481 billion. This is approximately COP 50 billion more than, than what we had budgeted for 2022. And this is average by a very positive growth in premiums in the 3 segments. From 25% initial premiums Life, general and health, which we will see details later. A stabilization of the action rate, which is -- so some lines, especially health and auto, we had challenges over the year. We also have an effect of the mixture because of the greater growth in health, you can see that towards the fourth quarter, we have a different trend, and we have a slightly lower loss percentage or gain percentage, a higher investment from investment, those are [indiscernible] basis, you can see in the table. Higher investments from investment it is because, as we said, in other occasions, the portfolio is Suramericana because of the nature of the business, it's the increase, especially in titles associated to the inflation in the various countries gives us the important benefits that we see here with a growth of [ 89% ]. During the fourth quarter, we saw a seasonality [Audio Gap] of the business, and we had profits and growth manage significant. In spite of several things that we will see first, the business -- health businesses close to [Audio Gap] higher loss close to COP 113 billion. We had significant losses in [indiscernible], which you saw in previous calls and [Audio Gap] we're trying to normalize, and we will see that in the general segment. And we had a provision for income tax from previous years, which is [Audio Gap] onetime issue, which affects Life mostly, but which was offset with the return of a provision that we had due to the expectations of [Audio Gap] minimum wage, higher than the inflation. That required the offset because of the expectations of that slide between the salary [Audio Gap] inflation was lower. Page 13, we'll see the details of the figures for the Life segment. Point out the recovery of net life sector, which is the venture that drives Suramericana. This went from COP 199 billion to COP 661 billion. This growth is 232%, which we believe is very important for the recovery of Suramericana. And this is explained because of the various reasons and increasing premiums. Those are growing at 9% year-to-year. And second, loss percentage which normalize after COVID. This was completely discovered -- distorted because of the COVID, we are seeing a liquidated an improvement of close to 390 basis points from 66.6% to 62.7%. And as we said earlier, an important growth in revenue from investments which grew 70.2%. You can see what I said about the provision for taxes, which is offset by the return of that provision for this Life between inflation and minimum wage. This is important part of salary life in Colombia, mostly because of a significant recovery in profits. Page 14, we see data for the general sector. We see that also the premiums have had a good growth in the year was 27.4%, and this is mostly associated with several items. A growth of 23% in the company solutions and also in cars and others because of some adjustments that we mentioned earlier, of the rates associated to the increase or that we had in restrictions of the logistics change in other parts. The price increases went up close to 2 million tests that we have insured in different countries. When we look at the claims rate, we see that, that throughout the year as we saw increased due to credit car, the auto in accident. What we see in this last quarter, a difference in that trend going down from 58% to 57%. When we see [Audio Gap] that the general losses in 2021 was close to 54%, and we're ending 2022 with close to 57%. We still have room for improvement of that. But as we said earlier, these are lots of rates, which are healthy for this type of solution. [Audio Gap] it's important to point out that a change in the trend over the past quarter. Combined reasons, you can see, it has a slight improvement, the technical results for the [Audio Gap] quarter grew vis-a-vis the fourth growth of 2021 up close to 28%. Again, driven by 75% growth in investments, a segment with a recovery of profits. As you can see in the bottom, you can see COP 163 billion. We had COP 58 billion in the previous year. These 2 possess a very significant improvement. Going to Page 15, details of the Health segment or sector. We consolidated the EPS, IPS, all of the service provision and Diagnósticas, laboratories and testing behind that business. We have to clarify that because the EPS had a one behavior, and the other 2 business had a different behavior. Look at the total of premiums issued that grew -- total revenue, grew to close 27%. When we look at the details, EPS is growing at 35% because the business associated to the IPS and Diagnósticas had some decreases associated with lower activities during the pandemic. When we see the [indiscernible] generation, why do -- understand why we had more claims because of the reorganization of the users in different EPS on the country, we migrated users towards EPS SURA. These users, usually have higher claim levels. And we had higher levels because of the update of the basic health plan, even without lower claims from COVID, we can see that, that has increasing and has gone from 94% to 97.6% close to 360 basis points over the last 4 or 5 quarters. This is from the claims. Lower contribution of IPS and Diagnósticas contributions. This is also true as you can see here, is growing at 9.8%. And these 2 components [Audio Gap] lead to that loss that we mentioned with a difference of COP 81 trillion. Last Page 16 to complete Suramericana, we want to show you 2 graphs that illustrate the company's recovery. Net profits for the various quarters. You can see how we come from the last quarter for 2020, where the company had COP 91 billion losses. We had some very close to 0 in some quarters and some quarters in loss. And after the fourth quarter 2021, we started to recover, and we achieved that COP 220 billion that includes the components that we mentioned. And in the lower part of the graph, we see first it goes to -- the company goes from COP 83 billion to COP 107 billion more. Life is contributing 162, general 180 debt. And health business, as we said earlier, which had a profit in '21 and losses in '22 is giving us a negative delta of 157 administrative expenses, interest and other. It offsets a little bit to at COP 490 billion that we mentioned. Page 17 shows in Suramericana compliance with the major indicators for 2022 and some projections for 2023. Start with the premiums issued. We had expected 113%. We're growing at 24.4%. The 3 segments that we mentioned earlier are growing at a double-digit rate. Life and Health, especially. In respect to continue with the dynamics to optimize our business footprint in 2023 with a growth of between 13% and 16%. The claims because of the reasons we explained, was a little higher than we expected. But in 2023, we expect similar levels. And this has to do with the mix as the Health segment grows. The mix has that effect [Audio Gap] is we're seeing a level of 72% to 74% losses. We continue -- we often seeing administrative expenses, we had higher in the high part of the range, we have between 12% right now, but we continue with the expense control, also aware that we are some variable expenses that depend more on the growth of the business. The first line of the premiums issued from the ROI, we had expected between 7% and 9%. The company achieved in 2022 9.5%, which we believe is very satisfactory. And we expect a similar growth in -- for 2023. Also for the tangible return, which we see in this other line, we were above the expected range for 2022. To then to [indiscernible] for 2023. Must keep in mind the -- why aren't we seeing any -- very similar ROIs is because the difference in rate exchange, remember that SURA Asset Management and Suramericana have significant investments in other countries. The Colombian peso has devalued more than some of the currency's Chilean peso, Peruvian or Mexican pesos. The Colombian peso have devalued more. This bring -- the equity brought into as pesos has an increase of 21%. And that's our devaluation is makings -- giving us a major challenge when we look at it in local currencies. Let's go to details for asset management. Page 19, we'll see the statement of results. During the fourth quarter, we had a significant recovery, mostly in the revenue for retained cash. And you remember the net profits -- accumulated net profits as of September was COP 143 billion, and we ended it with net controller for the controller of COP 441 billion. Before we start with the figures, we should point out that all the changes we mentioned in Protección & Asulado will be amplifying the statement of results into the asset management. This is why we are including the column of pro forma in December 2022 for better comparison between '21 and '22 is for you to have an idea that in December -- as of December 2021, we consolidated Protección & Asulado and Proteccion almost 29% -- 99% Asulado using the method of participation. In '22, we have 10 months in that way and 2 months of the consolidated -- consolidated Crecer, Protección as well as this poses that change challenges for analysis that as we give you more details, you can understand that. And as the time goes by, this will become normal. But we are aware of this challenge for the company comparison. Look at the businesses, revenue from commissions less than the pro forma. This is the APR and because of the voluntary, both businesses will be explained in detail. But mostly, this is the effect of lower commissions in Mexico and more challenging year in voluntary business. This also because of the retained cash decrease significantly vis-a-vis the previous year. And considering the participation method that the company ended up with total operation revenue of COP 3.2 trillion and COP 9.2 trillion. Operating profits over COP 1 trillion in December 2022, and we do that perform COP 151 billion, a growth of 27%. Point out of the [ operating ] expenses, major efforts and those operating expenses are decreasing. And with all of this, we are reaching this net profit of total COP 345 billion and the controlling COP 443 billion. This is the first time we operate the net profit and net profit for the controller. It's basically the inventory in Protección as to SURA Asset Management has 51.2% of the company. In Page 20, we will see details of the figures in the savings for retirement. Focus on asset under management, an increase in 17.8% for COP 146 billion. But when we looked at total currency, that grade of 17.8% because of the effect that we mentioned of the devaluation becomes a decrease of 0.9%. This has to do for several reasons. Negative returns throughout the year. We -- especially in Mexico, when the commission has -- it has a lower basis for collection of the -- year-over-year, the commission. The withdraws in Peru, close to COP 1.2 trillion, this was associated with the political measures taken by the country. It's a positive news that we -- a couple of months, we got the third bid for affiliates, May to June 2022, which we have a number of new affiliates for the company, and that rejuvenates the base of members in that country. We had revenue of positive and negative points. Negative, I mentioned the rates in Mexico, which went from 83% to 57%. And that was offset sort of with the growth in the base -- salary base and better employment figures in the various countries, where we charge by the flow. 90% of the AUMs had also [indiscernible] in 12 and 36 months positive for the affiliates. And at the end of the day, our operating profits reached in the fourth quarter of 2021, 306,000, in 2022, net performance of [ 180,000 ]. And in this [ grade ] net pro forma totaled COP 731 billion. We point out a major expense in -- effort in operating expenses, which grew about 20.3%. That means efforts in efficiency in this business, they are still one of the strategic focuses for achieving the profitability and offset these effects. Page 21. Page 21 shows the details of Inversiones SURA and SURA Investment Management. This is the voluntary business. And it's important to point out that in spite of the fact that we have a very challenging macroeconomic, environmental, economic environment, we could have a good result of returns for the AUMs. AUMs, we see 26.1% growth and COP [ 20.1 ] trillion. And without the effect of the rate of exchange, this is a 3.4% growth, net positive flow. And we believe that it's an increase -- the fact that we had this growth of 3.4%, although we had less than in the previous years, is satisfactory because of the competition we had in various countries with the rate of uptake of fixed income, other different banking entities that are clear competition for the different funds that are managed by these units. Major of also in efficiency, we see that operating expenses pro forma decreased 13.6%, with a greater percent in the revenue and the decrease in expenses. We are realizing the operating leverage, which we see that in return profits accumulated a bit over with 21, which is [ COP 35 billion ] and a total with the consolidated [ protection ] to COP 75 billion. Page 22 shows the variation of net consolidated profits for SURA Asset Management. Two graphs that show clearly what has happened with the company results over the year. The upper graph shows how the first quarters, the main results associated mostly to return of the retained cash was much below normal returns. But during the fourth quarter, we see a significant recovery in that below the bar. [ Margins ] in the company in 2021 had profits of [ COP 625 billion ], which goes to COP 541 billion net profit, but discounting the minority interest that you mentioned, which we achieved COP 441 billion. It's important to point out that the business as such, contributes to COP 147 billion, even with the reduction in the rates in Mexico. Main impact is associated with the return of the cash, it's a valuation that the market price and the difference in rate of exchange, which is COP 92 billion. This is very important to understand that the business, although we have different months of the year, we had major challenges in regulation, it still continues to produce cash significantly and very good operating results. Page 23 for the total asset management, the main figures that we have shown in the market and the outlook for 2023. I point out that profits have been impacted by negative results -- yields in the environment. And we have a recovery trying to look at that turning point in the rates of inflation and interest rates in the various countries. Let's look at the AUMs. So we expect it between 10% and 12% actually because of what we explained. It decreased 0.3%. We expect that this year 2023, we have a growth of 9% to 11%. Revenue from commissions are expected to be 12% and for 2023, we expect a growth, including the impact from Proteccion, between 26% to 29%, which if we clear it up like the pro forma, we would have a growth of close to 8%. Adjusted ROE and tangible ROE, return on capital, the figures were [ as little ] than expected because of what we had at the retained cash. We have expectations to between [ 6.6% ] in the intangible word. And we have the same effect that we had in Suramericana because we have significant exposure of capital in countries like Mexico, Chile and Peru that have been added less than the Columbian peso. When we bring equity to Colombian pesos, it has -- had a significant equity increase. After looking at details of Suramericana and SURA Asset Management, we'll look at the other accounts that contribute to this net profits for Grupo SURA. Let's go to Page 25, we see the total for the participation. We have several things to point out here. You see the positive evolution of the last quarters. For the first time we have participated method mostly coming from Bancolombia, Grupo Argos and Grupo Nutresa higher than [ COP 220 billion ] and all the investments growing more than 30%. This shows the power of diversification and the recovery of the various investments, as I said. It's important to point out that as of now, Proteccion is no longer part of the consolidation into participation. You see that in the beginning for 2022 because it was there for the first 10 months more between [ 23 ] and here. And afterwards, the participation would be 3 associated to [ Bancolombia ] and Grupo Nutresa and others, which have smaller companies where we have a participation -- small participation. Page 26 shows the variation in net profits for Grupo SURA, which gathers all these things that we have shown you in the previous pages. I'd point out that the previous other net profit was from [ COP 1 billion ] to [ 2,345 ], a growth of 54% and the net profits of the controller goes to COP 2.1 trillion with a growth of 47%. And the makeup can be seen different long sort of [ iconic ] contribution, [ COP 440 billion ]. So does manage it, mainly impacted by the differential change increases by COP 22 billion. Participation method adds to COP 315 billion. And the figures for Grupo SURA are affected by higher interest rate that lead to the interest be more than COP 141 million. This is [ a profitable figure ] that we want to share with you, very satisfactory because we think it's a very important achievement in this process of making the company profitable. Thank you very much, and we're now up to the Q&A. We were saying that, before we start with the Q&A, we believe that it was appropriate to talk a little bit about the proposal for distribution of profits and repurchase of shares that we published in the -- that was opposed by the shareholders assembly. And the two topics are related and have something to do with the questions that we received. First of all, I would like to say is that those points are related to cash flow that the company is expecting for 2023. The cash flow that we expect as revenue as the dividend you see from the various investments, and this is a cash flow that is going to be COP 1.7 trillion. That figure is estimated based on the proposals for the distribution that will be submitted to different assemblies in March. But this is based on estimates. And based on that, that has also to do with the distribution of our profits. They eventually will be growing to 63%. And we have to look at that from two points of view. First of all, the total amount that the separate activity was 55 -- the total amount will be COP 741 billion, to be given to the shareholders. But reminder -- remember that this is April to April that when we look at the cash flow for 2023 for the company, December to December, we have a quarter from the previous distribution at 3 quarters for this new one. So this [indiscernible], which as a percentage of the revenue from the company in 2023, is close to 40%. That is -- we are growing dividend by 53% to COP 280 per share, that's a proposal, represent 40% of the cash flow for 2023. And this allows us to continue to reduce the leverage. It's important to mention also that the number of COP 1.7 trillion, compared to the net debt, we're talking about indicated, which is below 3x, and that shows us the evolution in the decreasing the leveraging of the company. We want to speak also to -- about the proposal to repurchase some shares [indiscernible] proposed for the assembly. And we want to remind you that we had a program for repurchasing shares, which was taken to the assembly in March 2020, approved for 3 years. So this March would finish this program that was partially executed because of the cautious management of the cash flow during pandemic. And we want to point out things in our -- have to do with some of the questions about the preferred and common shares. We want to connect that with repurchasing. Preferred shares right now has decreased the volume, and we could talk a lot about the why and [indiscernible] and why the share stock market -- yes or no. But over the past 3 years, the preferred shares have decreased by 62% by value and 94% in liquidity. In 2020, liquidity was [indiscernible]. And right now, it's approximately [ 185 ]. And we had a correlation between the common and the provision, which shows to 4x the value the common shares has been affected by the [indiscernible] of the 40,000 preferred action. Shares have been around COP 10,000, connected to the liquidity into the lack of the year and marginal buyers. And we see that initiatives like this help to better price, but it's not of -- the repurchasing programs are held [Audio Gap] but as a management, we have to be looking for alternatives over time to close that gap between the market value of both types, especially with the situation we have with the preferred actions. Now I'll go to the next question. And I think that answer several of the ones that we had been received previously. Now we go to the next topic.Thank you for the presentation. Why is the decrease in the interest paid by SURA Asset Management in the pro forma? And what is a significant explanation for the participation share? Thank you, Steffania and Antonio. The interest line in our financial statements, over the year, doesn't have a lot of changes. We don't have the group ones covered. So the variations that we might have, have to do with the type of exchange because the average loss was very low -- higher. What is there in that line that might be affected? We had to record a deterioration in investment that we had in the front, and that deterioration, about $7 million during the first 3 quarters of the year. During the fourth quarter, we didn't have that. And that's possibly the valuation that you're looking at in this line for -- and why was that -- that was registered in the fourth quarter. About the other question, the difference in the participation in the cash retained message, this is part of the consolidation of Proteccion in the quarter before last October to December, where the results -- the total results of Proteccion for the [ core ] Proteccion is also owned. It was added line by line to our financial statement. But before that, we had taken the net profit multiplied by 44.9%, and we included that in the participation. Why is the change for the pro forma, if we consider the rating cash line by line in Proteccion had a little effect during the last 2 or 3 months of the year? When we show the pro forma, which is now that the line by line addition, we moved that Proteccion, and we show that in the negative pro forma. On the participation method line, there is something similar taking place. When we take the pro forma and we begin to bring all the results from Proteccion from the participation method based on net profits, that net profit from Proteccion is impacted by -- at the end of the year because of a better acquisition, but also because of a return we had from that provision for the -- provision insurance. What we do for the provision has impacted by the accident rates that we had, therefore, due to COVID last year. And we had a significant provision. But at the end of the year, when we have other positive effects, that production is reversed, the provision is reversed. That's when we show the pro forma on that line and the participation line, there was a significant increase. I wanted to add to this that we are aware that this issue of consolidation of Proteccion [indiscernible] will have some challenges for comparability. And both SURA [indiscernible] -- and we want to talk with the different shareholders, what everyone talks about, so you can understand how we're going to be looking at this in the future because we cannot compare this directly with the previous year. So please feel free to -- make sure that we are going to be with you, we're going to be with you in this explanation. Also in this, from -- what options are you considering to refinance the bonds of the asset managed mature next year? For refinancing, we have several billion dollars that for 2024, we have some open options to explore capital markets. And we've opened lines with different banks, and we're going to be looking at -- before that or -- which ones to use. But I want to point out that the one of the alternatives for the medium term is for us not to be paying more interest than we're paying right now on the debt. That means that we're going to reduce the capital -- the debt in dollars. And the company has some cash available. And the valuation of the coverage that we have or the debt that we have, that is -- give us a surplus of [ $200 million ]. We have available cash in our countries that are outside of the commitments of dividends and CapEx and all that, that could be about $10 million, and we have some -- seek capital investments that we might reap. So we are comfortable with the market options and the cash options that we have to roll over. That will not be 100%, but we have the option of paying part of that [ debt ]. The next question is by [indiscernible]. We have several quarters with [indiscernible] over 100. Why do we continue investment in this sector? I'll give the floor to [ Juan Uribe ]. I make a comment about this question. It's worthwhile to mention that the origin of this group was a [indiscernible] company. There are two things that are important here. First is the long-term measure for the companies in the long-term vision. It's possible that for the quarters, will not give us some combined ratios below [ 7 ]. But when we look at this for the long term, about 3 or 4 or 5 years, we're seeing ROEs more than -- much higher than the capital. So we want to point out that this should be a very long-term view. In this respect, we see the company that we developed -- this group in general. The second thing is that the market vision, it's a complete market vision. And it's important also to take people in the companies, some solutions that cover them both in life and movement. So we cannot look at this as silos. It's also very important to provide the vision because at the end of the day, what allows companies in the long term to grow. Non-Life companies, I don't have numbers right now. But in general, Latin America [ Suramericana ] can be the third and fourth Non-Life company in Latin America. And another topic is those volumes that we see also show some reserves, in which financial yields are pretty significant. And it's part of the [ rate ] we have the financial returns included because of the range of things that we're seeing, the combined ratios are like 110%, 112%. As some people rightly recognized, we will work with that because the financial yields are very important. But to complete and give this to Juan, it's important to be working Suramericana to reduce the combined ratio that 2 points closer to [ COP 9 trillion ] of retained premiums. So it's important to think about lower combined ratios.

Thank you, [ Rojas ]. To add to Gonzalo's words, the combined ratio is an indicator that combines the [indiscernible] of the company loss on the loss of purchasing of the commissions that we pay and the administrative expenses that we have by operating a company. These components are the general company -- insurance companies. You know we had a high level of claims in auto, which has a lot of weight. That's a major segment of ours in Non-Life. Talking about the corrections, we see a correction in the combined ratio of the auto business going from [ 112 ] down to [ 108 ].