GTPL Hathway Limited ($GTPL)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to GTPL Hathway Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectation of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not a guarantee of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Arian Tripathi from Emkay Global Financial Services Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to welcome the management and thank them for this opportunity. We have with us today Mr. Anirudhsinh Jadeja, Promoter and Managing Director; Mr. Piyush Pankaj, Business Head, B2B and Chief Strategy Officer; and Mr. Saurav Banerjee, Chief Financial Officer. I shall now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Over to you, Mr. Jadeja.

[indiscernible] call of GTPL Hathway Limited to discuss financial performance of quarter 4 FY '26. We remain the country's largest MSO while constantly deepening our footprint as a significant player in the fast tolling fees broadband landscape, both our cable TV and broadband businesses deliver steady operational performance over the year. Over the past financial year, we have focused on launching and scaling consumer-centric products and services. And with the newly launched GTPL Infinity, our [indiscernible] platform will enable to scale our operation, spirit of ground implementation and cost efficiency. In the line with our constant dividend paying policy from last 9 years, for the financial year FY '26, the Board of Directors have recommended a dividend of 20% of face value INR 2 per share. I now hand over to the call to Mr. Piyush Pankaj who will take you through the KPIs for the cable TV and broadband segment as well as highlights of our efforts throughout the year. Piyush?

Thanks, Mr. Jadeja. Good evening, everyone. The KPIs for both the businesses are as follows: first, cable TV segment, our digital cable TV subscriber base as of March 31, 2026, stood at 9.40 million. Among the total subscriber base, paying subscribers stood at 8.70 million. In the broadband business, active subscriber base at the end of the quarter stood at 1.06 million, adding 15,000 new subscribers on a Y-o-Y basis. Home pass stood at 5.95 million, as of 31st March 2026, of which 75% are available for FTTX. The broadband ARPU for quarter 4 FY '26 stood at INR 465 . Average data consumption per month stood at 436 GB, a 10% increase Y-o-Y. The number of Indian households is expected to increase from [ 32 ] million in 2025 to 345 million by 2028, alongside a rise in per capita income from USD 2,800 to USD 3,600. This growth is expected to expand India's middle class to approximately 75 million people by 2031. GTPL has strong foundation for higher television and broadband ownership and consumption. Television household penetration in India is around 60%, which is expected to be around 65% by 2030. India demographic and economic trends continue to support long-term growth in television and broadband penetration. This quarter has become exceptional as the company has reported negative profit after tax. The decline in PAT is driven by mainly 3 factors: first, the revenue impact, subscription, cable subscription and ISP revenues were lower due to the lower operating days in the quarter, which is a 2-day impact and a marginal decline in subscriber base. The impact is around INR 12 crores. Second is year-end accounting adjustments, higher onetime provision towards conservative accounting and impairment being the end of FI, which is -- the impact is of around INR 7.5 crores and onetime ForEx loss of around INR 9 crores. The revaluation loss due to INR depreciation linked to geopolitical developments in the Middle East. Because of that, the company has lost around INR 9 crores, and the impact is there in the pack. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Saurav Banerjee, CFO, who will take you through the financial performance of the company.

Thank you, Mr. Piyush, and good evening to everyone joining us today. On a consolidated basis for the quarter, total revenue rose 4% year-on-year to INR 9,344 million. Subscription revenue came in at INR 2,850 million, while broadband revenue increased 3% year-on-year to INR 1,394 million. Consolidated reported EBITDA was INR 908 million, reflecting a margin of 9.7%. Operating EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 854 million with a margin of 18%. Looking at the full year FY '26, consolidated revenue grew 7% annually to INR 37,466 million subscription revenue reached INR 11,862 million, while broadband revenue rose 2% year-on-year to INR 5,580 million. Consolidated reported EBITDA for the year was INR 4,321 million, translating to a margin of 11.5%. Operating EBITDA stood at INR 4,026 million, maintaining a margin of 22% compared to the prior year. Net profit attributable to the parent was INR 156 million. On a stand-alone basis for the quarter, total revenue grew by 9% Y-o-Y and 1% Q-on-Q to INR 6,185 million. Stand-alone reported EBITDA for the quarter was INR 596 million at a margin of 9.6%. Stand-alone figures for FY '26 stood as follows: Total revenue was stable annually at INR 8,685 million reported EBITDA stood at INR 2,369 million at an EBITDA margin of 9.6%. Net profit for the on INR 56 million. Balance sheet of the company remains healthy with a debt-to-equity of 0.18x as on 31st March. Net cash flow from operations for the full year stood at a robust INR 3,601 million, and we are also free cash flow positive for the financial year. Now I request the moderator to open the floor for a question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Suvarna from China Ki Capital.

I have 2 questions. We have noticed that there has been no growth in cable TV and broadband subscribers during this quarter. So could you please explain the reason behind it? And my second question is, could you please provide more detail on the personal items of INR 56.89 million whether this is likely to be there going forward?

For the first question, yes, you're right. There is no increase in the subscriber base of cable TV and broadband both sides. Cable TV, as you know, we have started implementing Header in the Sky. So we are concentrating right now more of converting the current subscriber base and going further cost savings, which will start reflecting from first quarter rather than the expansion in the first half in this quarter. The -- all the expansion and all the things will happen from the first quarter of FY '27. So we will start seeing some positive traction on that way. Yes, as you know, the competition is very high right now. And the environment is also not very favorable for the cable TV business, but still we are holding our base and retaining our base throughout. And plus from the next quarter, we are going to increase the, our pre-operations Header in the Sky, and we have to start getting more subscriber base on that way. So that's the way on the cable side. Broadband side this quarter is a bit muted. Overall, in the year, we have added 15,000. But this quarter was a bit muted but next quarter from the next quarter onwards, we will start seeing the addition in the subscriber base again. And the onetime, which we have seen, the exception, which is the investment impairment, which I have talked about on my statement that how it is impacting our PAT. And that is the part of that, that is a onetime investment impairment of some of the investments, which conservative accounting, our auditor has recommended us to take it, and we have taken in this year, but it is only one time, it will not continue.

Our next question comes from the line of Richard [indiscernible] from HCR Capital.

Hello. Yes. Sir, I had a question in line of the previous question. a this particular industry has been consolidating since quite some time now. How prolonged can this consolidation Phase 3 according to you? Like any the solution areas.

Yes, you're right. This industry is in the consolidation stage, and we are also preferring to go for the acquisitions and do the consolidation of the industry. As you know that out of around 80 million subsidy still 40 million to 45 million of cyber base is with the smaller MSOs, where with the changing technology and the quality and all it is difficult for them to hold the subscriber base for long. As you know, the change in technology is happening and whether it is OTT and whether it is other YouTube and Insta or Facebook, all have become a threat because they all are now a content company that social with their companies. And because of that, you have to improve your quality, you have to improve your interactions with the customers. You have to be at the, you can say, improve your quality, that is the problem with this industry. But smaller MSOs are in the long term are not able to do it. And that's why the consolidation is required so that you can retain those subscribers in the industry. And we remain [indiscernible] -- so that's one of the reasons that's happening in the industry for the last 4, 5 years. This year, as you see that we have our numbers have not decreased. It is almost safe because we have reduced our acquisitions or consolidation activity as we have concentrated more towards the [indiscernible] the Sky launch and putting the CapEx over there to create the one of the state-of-the-art uplinking center and doing beyond the tonic in the market. So that's why we have not gone for the very aggressive consolidation in all of which we used to do it for the last 2 to 3 years. But now we are doing it, and you will start seeing the results from the first quarter only. from this quarter only that for the consolidation. And we believe that consolidation is good for the industry as 800 MSOs are there in the country right now, which should reduce and fewer players should be there. who can serve the customer better.

So just to understand that we have been able to capture the benefit of consolidation to a certain extent. I mean, would you be able to get good benefit from it in future, correct?

Yes. That's the way we are working towards. We are very aggressive towards the consideration, and we will work towards that. After our heady platform, we are going to be very, very aggressive for the consolidation of [indiscernible]

Okay. And sir, from an industry standpoint, we now see that apart from month, only one other hits operator remains active. Given this limited competitive landscape, should you help us understand what has ended more players from adopting the head model?

Now you have to broaden your origin as for the competitors because right now, your competitors are everyone who is providing the content. That's why I've taken the name of -- you talk about telcos, you talk about YouTube. We've talked about Insta, Facebook, everyone who all are giving the content and who are taking the eyeballs of the customer. Those have become your competitors. So you have to broaden your horizon on the competitors. You don't have to go for traditional competitors existing competitors are always there, and they are set in there. But we have to broaden the competitive landscape. And we are working towards on that basis that we have the competition with all the players who are providing content.

One more question. Sir, the cable TV industry have been facing some structural challenges due to the OTT platform. But now players like you , we have started giving OTT with normal TV channels as a part of our safe top box plan. So how do you see the cable TV subscriber evolving over the next few years with this/

You see the whole world is gone towards the connected TVs where you will treating the TV also cable connection or retail initial plus you are having 1 or 2 Ps, the 3 OTTs there at the home. And that is the way which we look forward also that the future will be like that because content, you can say it is more of platform agnostic. So content has to reach to the customer. If it is a good content, customer will go and see that content it will be on the any platform. So you have to go according to the customer perspective, what their requirement is. And if contents are getting available on those platforms that you have to go for those platforms, and you have to -- so we look forward towards our setup, which we see -- we are a 5, which is a restint home. Right now, we are distributing broadcasters channels. We can distribute OTT also, we can distribute gaming also, which we have started. We can distribute financial services also. We can do sales more of a layering of the services to the customers. So you are -- you have the reach at home, how you are going to utilize that so that your customers is satisfied whatever he wants, he is getting that. So that's the way we look into the business. And that's why we are providing all type of combinations of different services. And that's the way we look forward for the future.

Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] is from Alpha Alternatives.

You are talking about the INR 4 crores to INR 5 crores customers in the MSO space, right? You are saying that you'll be very aggressive. Can you tell us in the next coming year, like FY '27 and '28 how much of this 4 to 5 customer you can acquire very confidently?

It's a very speculative question has, as you know. We are in talk with different players, big players, I will say, and which you will start getting the announcement in first quarter only as -- now we already -- we have implemented [indiscernible] in the sky, and now we are going ahead for the call. So I will say, yes, good substantial number will come. I can't give you exact numbers. As you know, it's more of population. But yes, we are on the job. And my quarter call, you will get that, okay, this much number has come and then we will start seeing the trends on that side. But yes, we are doing the consolidation and one of our main strategy is that.

So this would be an acquisition of north?

Come again, sorry?

So you're talking about acquiring...

Yes, we are talking about acquisitions. But yes, we are looking forward to go ahead and do it. So yes.

Got it. Secondly, I just wanted to understand on your cable TV base, how difficult it is to take a INR 5, INR 6 hike in ARPU?

See, ARPU you can do higher. We are doing it this year also. We did it last year also. But as you know, Indian markets are very sensitive about the ARPU. We are increasing it. And every time, if you see it increasing by INR 3 to INR 4 to INR 5, which is hardly, we can say, 3% to 4% increase. But that 3% to 4% increase will happen every year. that is going to happen. So in 3 years' time, you will say, yes, 10% to 12% improvement has happened in the ARPU. But drastic improvement in ARPU is not -- we are not looking forward to that. We are more going or playing the volume gain rather than the value game. That value is going to be 2% to 3%, 4% maximum. And main volume gain is going to give you the returns and our revenues.

So the volume side well taken care of by the acquisition of MSO, right? So from where you see the volume growth...

Inorganic, organic, everything to -- see there is -- I'll just give you the largest perspective on that basis that I've just given that they are seen 2 million households that they are out of that. The TV households is just on 93 billion, $24 billion. And still, it is somewhere around 60% only. So still 40% is there, which is without TV, which is you can say, non-cable, non-DTH, non-TV areas in the country right now, which is somewhere around, you can say, 130 million to 140 million households, which is that. So that opportunity is because there's an opportunity there, which you can increase. You can go for inclusiveness of them in the -- as becoming the TV households is now one of the reasons that we have gone from the Header in the Sky so that we can be present in everyman corner of the country and we can start the business week to 10 days. And that's one of the prime things that how you can bring this 150 million, 140 million households into the wave of your telone -- so that's one of the bigger target. Plus -- the other target becomes as a scale at 45 million households, which is still with the smaller MSOs and they are like a low-hanging fruit for go and acquire them. But yes, there is some cost involved yes. cost but you go and acquire them and you increase the subscriber base on that basis. The third comes to DTH because now you are at par of DTH from last 5 years, as we have the number of same number of channels, we have the same quality after digitization. And you have a big portion of BPH competition where we can win back because has won the customers from the cable and grow and now that we should from them. So all those things. And one more portion is your free dash because we have increased tremendously. Only because there was no option at the ruler areas for the other players to go into or have the reach to have to reach those households through your P2P or fiber and everything. And DTH is direct to home is to caution you for that. And that's why they have gone into the fold of trades. So there is 40, 50 million subscriber base is die in the premat, which you can now hamper because you are also reaching there through a ink. So the possibilities are large. We have to take it one by one. But possibilities are large, and we can attack in everyone. And there is a lot of work of next decade, I will say that you can do this and increase these businesses twofold to 3, 4 to 5 fold. So that's, you can say, the large perspective is there to increase our business.

Got it. So lastly, on your CapEx and depreciation, how should we model this going forward?

Yes. CapEx, this year, we did around INR 290 crores of CapEx total. Out of that, around INR 110 crores is in the broadband at INR 180 crores, which includes the hedge CapEx is near. We are looking forward that next year, we will be again back to INR 350 crores, somewhere. We are looking forward that INR 150 crores to INR 160 crores will be on the broadband and the rest will be on the table and [indiscernible]

When in the CapEx peak, sir?

Sorry, as you voice was cracking.

When will the CapEx peak out?

Maximum will peak out means you're talking about the quarter wise breakout or...

No. So we are doing 300 run rate every year, right? So -- that will come down to about INR 100 crores of maintenance by well?

Okay. You're talking about when it will get -- start reducing. We are looking forward to reduce it as we have seen that this is the time for the growth for both the businesses. As I said to you, the cable business, a lot of it is cable business. There's a lot of aspect. Same is there in the broadband side. As you know, in the broadband only for 6 million households are in the wired side right now. And as you see the wireless costs are going up with the time. So this is a time where we can and to think and out of 346 million, which is around 4%, 18% to 40% presentations are there. So there is a I will say this is the next decade is going to be both for broadband and cable for both the businesses where you can increase your stake and the whole participation in that country. So I'm not looking forward for at least for the next 3 years that we will want to reduce our CapEx.

Our next question comes from the line of Vinit Manek from Karma Capital. Yes. can have?

Just one question from our side, It was really disappointing to see a loss this quarter -- but sir, overall, despite of all the efforts that you mentioned on the call that we have been doing it for so long our margins have been at least on the operating side that we used to say that 24% margin we used to not that was down to 22% and now it is down to 18%. And in fact, if we see on a CATV basis, also, we are seeing a degrowth -- our broadband business is also growing at a very smaller pace. So how should we look at the launch business structurability about the profitability of the business because margins have been falling and growth has not been so great for us. So that was the first part of the question. And the second part is that can you slightly elaborate on the exceptional charges that you said on the investment that you have taken with the recommendation of the auditor that what was largely that was attributable to the nature of it, if you can explain.

Yes, sure, Vinit. So first question, you are right with it that -- this quarter is a bit disappointing because we have gone for the negative path. And this year also, if we can, as I say that at the beginning also that we are -- have a very muted number on both the businesses as we have not lost the number. But yes, we have not increased the numbers, which was expected that we should increase our number now. As the cable business side, I will say that we are concentrating towards not going overboard of acquisitions and all and concentrate on our Header in the Sky so that we can be ready for the future. So that's why we have a bit muted. In the broadband side, I guess, the competition mainly from the new technology, which has come as a fiber and that has suddenly taken us on the leap. And now we are recovering from that as our net edition has started increasing now, and we are hopeful that next year is going to be better that business also and cable business also. Yes, profitability side, I will say we have maintained our operational profit if we see 22% [indiscernible] last year, you are right. that at some point of time, we were at 24% to 25% in 2022 or 2023, and we have come down to 22%. But we are looking forward that the implementation of HEX as we are going to save a lot of money in your delivery cost that is going to increase here, which is directly good to increase your EBITDA plus the new businesses which we are going to get is going to increase that. So you are able to control your cost if you go through our employee cost and our operational costs and also, we have worked tremendously towards that this year, and we have brought it down both our other operating expenses in all over and the employee cost plus, you can see the pre-channel cost also, it is consistent same -- if we talk about the operational profit operational project, Slide #24 in our investor presentation on that way. But yes, you are right that in 1 look, this is a great situation. And this quarter is impacted, which I have given in my statement also. Another one, you're talking about the impairments and all. This is 2 parts are there. One is the impairment, which has happened on some of our old investment, which has happened. On those investments which we did, you can say invested a long time back in 2011, 2012, 2013 in [indiscernible] , those investments has become invariant warding to the auditors and they have recommended to go for impairment for the more of a cleaning of the books on time, and that has appeared there, which is below the EBITDA is around the EBITDA is around more of INR 2 crores, INR 2.5 crores. So total is around INR 7.5 crores to INR 8 crores is there. And the second portion, which we have got hit because of our -- the ForEx fluctuation. As you know, that the accounting of Header in the Sky, the transponders, which we have taken in from Indonesia, where the contracts are in the dollars, and we have started taking that in the depreciation price, those costs, which we have to do on an ROE basis. And those fluctuations because of those fluctuations as on 31 March, the depreciation was very high on IMR and first and second April, it got back, but we have to go according to the 31st math,and we got hit by around INR 9 crores because of that. in the books, which is like a onetime. If those onetime would have not happened, we would have -- those are the national costs, I would say, we would be positive, having better margins, and that is the case. Future, I will say with it, we are very, very hopeful. As you know, we are rethinking on the whole business from last 1, 1.5 years, as we told you earlier also, and that's why we are implementing or taking big steps where we are spending on CapEx on the new platforms, we are spending on the CapEx in the broadband side also, different technology set. So all those things we are doing on the on the basis that, yes, we are going to implement our strategies in the coming years. And again, which I've talked about the next 3 years, we are going to be very, very aggressive, which we used to around 5 years back. So we are going to use to boost, again, the next 3 years is going to be aggressive. And we are hopeful that we are again going to improve our margins. And again, we are going to start seeing it. positive PAT. And again, the PAT will go up, like it has reached to INR 200 crores at some point of time, and then it declined. We are hopeful that we will again reach to that level in the next 3 or 4 years.

And sir, the 18% margin that we reported, the operating margin that we reported this quarter was because of the onetime charges included in that from [indiscernible] or that onetime charges below the line item that...

It is below the line item. 22% is the operational Slide #24, if you see.

But 2 full year, right? FY '26 is 22%. This quarter, it went down to 18% on an operating basis this quarter?

Yes. This quarter, we have 18%. That is 1 of the exceptional because 2 days revenue has gone. So always quarter 4 is lower with it because in quarter 4, you get just 90 days not the 92 days. So if you see the quarter 3, it was 24%, it was exceptional because we've got 92 days there. So that's why revenue goes up and down. So it's better to see on the yearly basis, that's where we are starting.

Our next question comes from the line of Rishi Guptha from VG Finance.

Yes. So my question is like what is the churn profile for cable customers and which retention initiatives have shown the best result?

Jon, if we talk about the industry churn is somewhere around 17% to 18% as we are at the same level. And if I talk about 17% to 18% short, then you can see that if we are retaining our customer at the same level. I will say that it is reducing year-to-year because when the cold time was there, the churn has gone up to 24% and then started reducing and reducing and now it is at around 17%, which is there. And we are hopeful that it will go down with the time as more retention will come into that. We are doing the all efforts on the retention. And that's why we are going down to 17%, 18% -- still industry, it is at 20%, 21% churn is going up there. So we are doing better than industry on the churn and so that is the case.

Okay, sir. And what is the strategy for set-top box upgrades or replacement? And how are the costs recovered?

See, if we are talking about replacement and all the replacements are happening. And generally, we are doing the replacement with our used box for best box. And if it has to be in the new box that if there is a cost involved on that for the replacement. So that's where you are recovering the your investments on that way. So there is a 2-way you can replace if the box is not working. Either it has to be a refurbished box, which is like a used box, which is repaired and retrieved, and repaired box to that, you can recover the very small cost or if we had to go for the new box, then you have to pay for the new box. That is the policy.

Okay. And like how do we coordinate between business teams of cable and broadband to ontime cross-sell opportunities?

No. The teams are different. Yes, you can say that the collaboration is always there between the teams on the strategic matters. On the ground matters where you have to give the -- you can say, the leads here and there. But yes, as both the businesses are different, require different skills, so the teams are different. Yes, you [indiscernible] , you collaborate between them in the same areas, technical people are there who are going to help each other, all those things are there, all the synergies are the helping. But yes, there is a broadband team is different than a dedicated teams are there.

Okay. And in the broadband, what is the expected ARPU mix as customer moves to higher speed times?

So right now, ARPU is 465. If you see from last 3 years, the ARPU was at around 40 , it has gone up to 465. We have not increased our package price. We have reduced it a bit. but because customers are migrating to higher packages, higher-speed packaging. Because of that, you have shift in the last 2 years, we have seen that around INR 35 increase has happened in the ARPU. And we are looking forward that, that increase will come in the future also.

Okay. So then I also wanted to know that how long does it typically takes us to convert the home passed into a paying broadband customers? And what steps are shortened that time line? What steps we have taken?

See, once you meet the home pass and you declare it that it is available for the sale. So really, it takes 18 months for converting those who pass up to around 13% to 20% or extracting the customer to that way. And it depends on the area or if it is where it dense, then it can go up to 25% to 30% also and because the rural area might be 12% to 15% of gas. The industry norm is 20% conversion on the that the best. We are at around 17%, 18% right now. We are expecting more and more with the guidance.

Okay. And how do we prioritize which neighborhood or circles to roll out next and what commercial criteria drive that choice?

Those are, I think, we have -- going into the details of operations at how we do that 4 years and all like then we can correct off-line, and I'll give you the alleles that of the criteria is we keep it for different areas and whether it is the or whether it is urban, what type of speed and what type of packages we have to take on those areas. So I have different criteria. So if I talk about that if I am doing something in Anand, it's a different strategy, If I'm doing something in [indiscernible] it is a different strategy. If I'm doing in, you can say, Nasik, be different, if we are doing in the Bombay that way, that's an operational thing. It's not -- you can say a standardized thing standardized is some big stabilization, but you have to work want the market. according to the customer you are targeting on gross margins.

Next question comes from the line of Viral Jain from MSG Finance.

Yes, A few quick questions from Masa. The first 1 was on the CapEx side. So can you just provide us a guidance for the CapEx plan for going forward, let's say, for 2 years from '27 to '29. And what will be the split between the cable broadband and hit? And how much of it will be for growth? And what will be the maintenance CapEx?

Yes. So we are looking forward to somewhere around but I don't the CapEx, which we are looking for and out of that, around INR 150 crores is going to be in broadband and the rest, INR 200 crores in the cable and head units together because going to cable is going to get into it heads at that time. And a stat survey. If we talk about the maintenance CapEx, maintenance CapEx will be somewhere around 50% in the both side to be in the maintenance CapEx and 30% is going to be the growth coming. That's why we are going up under the CapEx. So that's why you can say, next 2 years, somewhere around INR 700 crores at trying to do out of that with the maintenance CapEx and [indiscernible] CapEx.

Got it, sir. My next question was with regards to the ROC. So if we look historically from FY '14 to '18 we could see that we were doing ROCE of around 12% to 15%. But during the COVID year and post it grew up exceptionally high to around 25%. And post COVID, we can see that it's already coming back to normal range of 12% to 15% in FY '23 to 24. So however -- but the last year, we saw that the ROC of was in the single digit. So what could be our expected target for ROC in FY '27 to 30? And what will be the initiatives will this -- will it drive?

Yes. Because, see, the normalization is somewhere around 50% that is what we are trying to achieve as back. This year is exceptional, as I say, that we have not gone for big acquisitions and all increasing the number in both the businesses as we were more concentrating towards implementing the new platforms or structures in such a way for the future. And the investment has gone towards that and the CapEx of the new platforms and all. And that's where the incremental or sustains, the sustainable CapEx is required more rather than the growth CapEx, which we did. And that's why you will see the ROC has come down a bit. But going forward, as I have mentioned that there is going to be a good growth CapEx spend, and that is going to increase [indiscernible] and we are hopeful that we will achieve back again in the next 2 to 3 years, the season.

Back to 15%. Got it.

Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I would like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks. Thank you, and over to you, team.

Thanks. I would like to express my thanks to every participant who took their time out to attend the call. I would like to thank Emkay for organizing this call. For any queries please feel free to contact annual FG IR, who are our Investor Relations advisers. Thank you, and have a good day.

Thank you, sir. On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.