Halyk Bank of Kazakhstan Joint Stock Company (HSBK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to Halyk Bank conference call on presentation of financial results for the first half and second quarter of 2022. The session will start with the presentation by Halyk team and will be followed by a Q&A session. Please note that the call is being recorded. Participants to today's call on Halyk Bank side are Ms. Shayakhmetova, Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Roman Maszczyk, Deputy CEO; Compliance, Risk Management, Data Science and Collateral Chief Compliance Controller; Ms. Olga Vuros , Deputy CEO, Corporate Banking; Mr. Dauren Sartayev, Deputy CEO, SME Banking, Transaction Banking, PR and Marketing; Mr. Zhumabek Mamutov, Deputy CEO, Retail Banking and Staff Collection; Mr. Nariman Mukushev, Deputy CEO; Digital Government Services, ecosystem and customer experience; Mr. Anton Musin, General Managing Director responsible for IT and innovation. Mr. Almas Makhanov, Chief Risk Officer; Mr. Viktor Skryl, Financial Director, Finance and Subsidiaries; Mr. Margulan Tanirtayev from IR team and myself, Mira Kassenova, Head of FI and IR. And we would like to start with the digital update for the first half and second quarter of 2022. Customer engagement growth within our core online platforms, Halyk Homebank and online bank continues to perform very well year-on-year. The number of MAU and DAU of Halyk Homebank increased by 47% and 59.4% year-on-year, respectively. MAU reached 4.85 million in 2Q 2022. We see continuous growth in the number of active users of our Halyk bank app for businesses. MAU reached 202,000 increasing by almost 62% year-on-year. The bank is constantly developing its digital proposition to the clients. In 2Q 2022, we launched additional services and functions within our Homebank platforms such as card issuance with a QR code through a self-embosser, cross-authorization to the new insurance website, cash withdrawn by QR code in ATM in Halyk Homebank and online onboarding for LLP, push notification about overdue tax debt and debt payment schedule in online app. Next slide, please. The continuous increase in customer engagement within our digital platform supported a strong growth in credit and non-credit products for retail clients and businesses. Online sales were one of the key drivers of retail loan growth. Share of digital loans issued equaled 73% in the first half of 2022, which is up 17 percentage points year-on-year. Share of new online deposits increased by 15 percentage points in 6 months of 2022 and was at 41%. For SME business, we are demonstrating a sound growth in number of digital loans issued in 2Q of 2022, which is up 84.6% year-on-year. We see a strong growth in online CCT payments number and volumes in second quarter of 2022, which grew by 50% and 62% year-on-year, respectively. Next slide, please. In the second quarter of 2022, the ecosystem verticals demonstrated a healthy year-on-year growth. Moreover, Halyk team is continuing to develop client proposition. So Halyk Travel was the first on the market who own the sale of tickets for intercity buses at the end of May. Also Kino.kz launched the sale of tickets to concerts and theaters. The premiums written within our online auto insurance service increased by 14.8% year-on-year, while in 2Q of 2022 GMV of Halyk Travel and Kino.kz have expanded 4 and 5.8x year-on-year respectively. Development of our marketplace platform, Halyk Market remains a key priority for us. In the second quarter, our total marketplace GMV equaled KZT 30 billion, which is up 46.5% year-on-year. Now let me switch to the business segment update. Turning to the retail segment. We would like to highlight a solid performance across key dimensions. We continue to see strong customer engagement and increasing digital footprint with our Halyk Homebank and growing transactional activity. The transactions volume has increased by 31% year-on-year. On a consolidated basis, the retail gross loan portfolio has expanded by 56.7%, partially thanks to Kazakhstan's bars on portfolio acquisition. While the customer deposits increased by 14.9% year-on-year. We see a sound growth in retail after client number and product penetration by 9.3% and 10%, respectively. Next slide, please. We continue to develop Halyk Homebank Super App, which is at core of our retail customer proposition. We already see notable results in customers activity. Moreover, the mouse penetration rate in retail active client base has risen from 15% to 51% during the recent years, showing a further potential for growth. Next slide, please. On consolidated basis, our retail portfolio grew by 54.7% year-on-year while the loan issuance volumes in the first half of 2022 increased by almost 9%. The growth has been primarily driven by digital sales, which increased by 82.8% year-on-year and reached 37% of total retail loan sales in 6 months of 2022. We'd like to observe improvement in the asset quality with NPL 90 days plus at 3.8% and while we continue to maintain conservative provisioning policy with almost 164% NPL coverage ratio. Next slide, please. Halyk Marketplace remains one of our top priorities as we develop comprehensive service proposition, both for retail clients and merchants. In the second quarter of 2022, the GMV of our e-comm platform Halyk market increased by 2.3x year-on-year. Our network expanded to more than 1,500 merchants offering over 330,000 SKUs and the focus to expand our footprint [indiscernible]. Next slide, please. Over the second quarter of 2022, we continue to develop our retail platform and focus greatly on GovTech. We are the first bank on the market who launched birth certificate application registration in the place of residents and car history. Moreover, resources are available exclusively in Halyk Homebank. The number of GovTech MAU is up 76.3% since January 2022 and equaled almost 708,000. Furthermore, in 2022, the government services were used over 6 million times. Turning to Corporate segment. We would like to highlight that on a consolidated basis, our loan book has expanded by 24.3% year-to-date. Our corporate portfolio remains well diversified across industries, while local currency loans comprised 73% of the loan book. At the 1st of July 2022, the segment NPL ratio stayed flat at 0.9%, while the provisioning coverage decreased to circa 513%. We see a sound growth in our active corporate client base as it reached over 2,200 customers in the second quarter of this year. Essentially, the product penetration and transactional activity have been notably increasing as well. Next slide, please. Now let me turn to the SME banking performance achievements. On a consolidated basis, SME gross loan portfolio grew by 11.6% year-to-date, while the number of borrowers increased by 3.3x year-on-year. The segment NPL ratio decreased to 5.3%. In June 2022, we have almost 200,000 SME MAU which is up 35% since January, reflecting our continuous efforts in development of online daily banking and transactional services. The segment products penetration and transactional activities showed a notable increase as well. Next slide, please. We achieved a 24.6% increase in SME loan issuance volumes year-on-year. It has been primarily driven by digital loans, which already comprise 20% of our SE loan portfolio. The number of SE borrowers have shown a very strong growth by 2.5x. In the first quarter -- in the first half of 2022, we onboarded 91% of IE clients online. Following the launch of digital tender guarantees in October last year, we issued 3.8x more blank central guarantees in the first half of 2022 compared with the first half of last year. And now let me turn over the call to my colleague, Margulan Tanirtayev, from IR team. Thank you.

Thank you, Mira. Now let me switch to the overview of Halyk Group consolidated financial results for the first half and second quarter of 2022. During the first half, the bank generated KZT 281.4 billion of net income. The year-on-year increase by 24.8% was mainly due to significant increase in lending business, including acquisition of virtual loan portfolio and in net gain on foreign exchange operations. Net billing gain in the first half of 2022 refers mainly to increased volatility and increased activity in the foreign exchange markets. Net insurance income for the first half of 2022 significantly decreased versus the first half of 2021. Let us remind you that previously, the bulk of income from insurance on unsecured loans were recognized on the side of the bank. Starting from 2022, this income has been transferred from the bank to subsidiary Halyk Life. Halyk Life, in turn, has created an insurance reserve for the full amount of insurance on consumer loans. Consequently, there was increase in insurance reserve expenses. In the first half of 2022, we demonstrated 34.3% return on average equity and 4.4% return on assets. Next slide, please. Total assets of the group increased by 13.6% versus the year-end of 2021 as a result of growth in amounts due to customers to support the expansion of lending business. Customer deposits increased by 17.8% as a result of the client's inflow due to changes in the operating landscape. Next slide, please. Interest income for the first half of 2022 increased by 35.3% year-on-year, mainly due to rise in average rate and balances of loans to customers. Interest expense for the first half of 2022 increased by 53.5% versus the first half of the last year, mainly as a result of the growth in average rate and balances of amounts due to customers and increase in interest expense on amounts due to credit institutions owing to the growing volumes of repo transactions attracted to provide current cash flows in CCT within the bank's operating activities. As a result, net interest income for the first half of 2022 grew by 22.9% versus the first half of the last year. In the first half of 2022, net interest margin was affected by the increase in average rates on both loans to customers and amounts due to customers following the base rate hike from 10.25% to 14% in the first half of 2022. Moreover, the structure of placement of interest-bearing liabilities into interest-earning assets continued to improve with increased share of high-yielding retail and SME loans. As a result, net interest margin remained flat at 5.2%. Next slide, please. In the first half of 2022, the overall dynamics of fee and commission income and expense was driven by the increased transactional activity as a result of declines inflow due to changes in the operating landscape. Consequently, the previous trend of net fee and commission income dynamics turned positive in the first half of 2022, increasing by 5.5% year-on-year and by 27.5% in the second quarter of 2022 versus the second quarter of the last year. Contribution of merchant fees under the NPL loans to the fee and commission income has decreased in the first half of 2022 due to temporary suspension of BNPL in the first quarter of 2022 and further reopening with tightened underwriting conditions. Next slide, please. Operating expenses for the first half of 2022 increased by 23.3% year-on-year, mainly due to the indexation of salaries and other employee benefits starting from 1st March of 2022 and due to employee premiums reserve accrued in the second quarter. The bank's cost-to-income ratio decreased to 18.9% compared to 22.1% for the first half of 2021 due to high operating income for the first half of this year. Next slide, please. On the balance sheet, compared with the year-end of 2021, loans to customers increased by 23.1% on the gross and 23.6% on a net basis. The increase in the gross loan portfolio was attributable to a rise of 24.3% in corporate, 11.6% in SME and 27.4% in retail loans. During the second quarter of 2022, the bank acquired from Kazakhstan [ Sberbank ], part of high-quality commercial portfolio of Stage 1 loans for a total amount of KZT 568 billion and RUB 2.7 billion, where KZT 136 billion and RUB 2.6 billion at corporate loans, KZT 102 billion and RUB 44 million are SME loans and KZT 333 billion are retail loans. We also have to mention here that the share of foreign currency loans was at historically low level of 19.2% as at the end of the second quarter of 2022. Next slide, please. 90-day plus NPL ratio decreased to 2.4%. Cost of risk on loans to customers for the first half and second quarter of 2022 was at 1.5%, reflecting more normalized credit loss expenses on corporate and SME loan portfolio and high credit loss expenses on retail loan portfolio. The provisioning rate stood at 5.7%. The Stage 3 coverage ratio slight decrease to 74.5%. Next slide, please. Despite some increase in absolute terms, Stage 3 ratio reduced to 7.6% as at the end of second quarter of 2022, mainly due to increase of Stage 1 loans and acquisition of high-quality per loan portfolio. Next slide, please. On liability side, the corporate and retail deposits increased by 28.3% and 8.2%, respectively, compared with the year-end of 2021 as a result of declines inflow due to changes in the operating landscape. As at the end of second quarter of 2022, the share of KZT deposits in total corporate deposits was 55% compared to 52.9% as of the year-end of 2021. While the share in total retail deposits was 50.1% compared to 50.6% as at the year-end of 2021. Next slide, please. Capital adequacy ratios of the bank decreased in second quarter of 2022 as a result of significant increase in risk-weighted assets, including acquisitions of Sber's loan portfolio by 20.2% versus the year-end of 2021. In the first half of 2022, total equity of the bank increased by KZT 191.1 billion or by 12.1% compared to the year-end of 2021, whereas net income for the first half of 2022 amounted to KZT 281.4 billion. This was due to loss on revaluation of debt financial assets at fair value to other comprehensive income, which totaled KZT 11.7 billion in the first half of 2022. The loss mainly relates to the treasury bills of the Ministry of Finance of Kazakhstan, which had decreased in price due to base rate hike from 10.25% to 14% in the first 6 months of this year. Next slide, please. Based on our 6 months financial results, we have updated the outlook for the full year of 2022. Retail net loan portfolio growth is expected to be in the area of 30%. Corporate and SME net loan portfolio growth is expected to be around 30%. Total net loan portfolio growth is expected to be circa 30%. Growth of net fee and commission income is expected to be more than 10%. Cost of risk is expected to be in the area of 1.5%. Consolidated net income is to be more than KZT 500 billion. Return on average equity is to be around 30%. Net interest margin is expected to be circa 5.3%, and cost-to-income ratio is expected to be in the area of 20%. Dear ladies and gentlemen, this completes our presentation.

Now I would like to open the floor for your questions. [Operator Instructions] And the first question comes from Elena Tsareva.

So, my first question is a bit more on guidance. So, given like current elevated level of interest rates, given the recent hike of base rate and I understand the elevated inflation, the right expectations of these interest rates stay high for time being so, why do you expect your margin to widen? And I understand you expect your like organic loan growth to distillate. So, what is the indications of this high base rate on margin and on loan growth going forward and the next question is about your dividend decision for 2021. As I understand, this decision was delayed towards second half of this year and given we are in the third quarter. So, what is the next steps towards your dividend decision? And if any ideas of what you mean corporate given like your dividend policy, just to 100% allocation.

This is Viktor Skryl. Let me answer your first question regarding NIM dynamics and guidance. We see that despite increase in base rate, we are able to reprice our loans relatively quickly in part of corporate loans, which are mostly working financing, and we are able to do that quickly. With respect to retail deposits, which are sticky, we are repricing them slowly, but we're also doing that. On deposit side, we see that those are also repriced not as fast as could. So, we see that rates on interest-earning assets and interest-bearing liabilities. -- increasing in the same manner. Like you can see that during the second quarter, these rates improved by -- and increased by 1% this on one side. On the second side, we also see that on net interest margin dynamics, we have higher effect, not from the interest rate dynamics by themselves, but also from the structure of our assets and liabilities. So, we see that share of loans is increasing. And we also see that share of higher-yielding retail loans and SME loans is also improving. So overall, we see that margin for this year should be stable. And we also see that during first and second quarter, it's at current level of 5.2% and may improve slightly further to 5.3%. And on dividend question, I would like to hand over the floor to Ms. Umut Shayakhmetova.

I understand that the question regarding the dividend is maybe the main question today from all of our investors and analysts. And I would like just to say the history why the dividend payment decision was delayed in the second quarter due to the potential risks which we saw in terms of the economy development and sanctions in Russia and also the potential loss on the provision side. So, we were waiting for development, how the economy will be developing in Kazakhstan. The other reason was that we were also considering the potential on the business increase. And actually, we realized that opportunity and as you know, that some of our capital was consumed by the growth on the lending side. And today, the capital ratio is almost at the level of 17%, which we target as the low-cost level of capitalization of the bank. At the same time, we see that the bank is generating very good results. And in our guidance for the year-end, you see that we did the upside on our numbers for the year-end results on net profit. And as a management, we think that, yes, it's possible to consider to pay out dividend in the second half of this year. However, the decision will be made at the Board meeting in the mid of September. And at this point of time, I cannot tell you what the decision will be made, and we have to wait until the middle of September.

The next question comes from Mikhail Butkov.

My first question is on guidance. And can you maybe provide any indication on CET1 ratio for the full year, excluding the dividends, so what outlook could be? And more specifically, could you, from the accounts and standpoint to classify part of your securities portfolio, for example, has held to maturity, which could theoretically help your CET1 ratio? And also on the guidance, do you bake in gains from fixed transactions and deals which were quite substantial contributors in the first half of the year in your full year guidance, that the first part of the question.

[Audio Gap] At this point of time, we think we should look on how our loan portfolio growth would be evolving how RWAs would be developing and the combination of retail loans, which typically have higher risk weightings compared to other parts of the loan portfolio. So, at this stage, we are not able to provide guidance for the full year for CET1. With respect to your other question, whether we can reclassify some securities at fair value to health maturity. This is typically done at the beginning of the year according to IFRS. So, it is not possible to reclassify a portion of the securities to help maturity and with respect to your third question, yes, we included results for FX gains for during our first half into our full year guidance. Of course, we do not expect the same volume of gains in the second half because during first and second quarters, they were mostly one-offs. So, for second half of the year, we plan to have much lower volume compared to actual results.

Okay. And another question is on the dividends and target CET1 ratio, you mentioned 17% as the target. Can you maybe provide some color on which this target capital ratio is based at? And what conditions for paying dividends? Do we see other than the good sufficient level of CET1 ratio, so maybe something on the macro side or anything.

Mikhail, yes. First, we are looking at CET1 ratio. And with respect to your second part of your question, we are looking on a number of factors. First factor is our strategy, how we plan to grow our business and how effectively we can utilize our equity in order to support growth, profitability and stability of the bank. Second factor as we mentioned is general stability of the economy, any potential risks and uncertainties. And of course, and third factor, which is very important for us for our business model is ratings from international rating agencies. It's very important to maintain our current level of ratings, which we have. We recently were confirmed our ratings were conformed and improved earlier. So, maintaining our credit ratings is a big task for the bank. So, we would be looking at those 3 factors in combination when decision on dividends would be considered?

And just a small clarification, if you could provide some comments on what the target of 17% for CET1 ratio is based, if any color you can provide them? And this is the last question for me.

Sorry, Mikhail, I think I do not understand your question.

So basically Y-o-Y by 17% was mentioned at the targeted minimum level not for example, 16.5% or 18%?

I see. Yes, 17% is a historical level below which I think we didn't go. And we also understand the least comfortable level, which corresponds to the level of capital adequacy ratio of rating agencies. So, this is like historical level at which we can maintain our ratings as is our analysis and the stage. And I think also, we mentioned this number maybe a few years ago during our Capital Markets Day, which we held in London. I think we even have this presentation on our website.

And the next question comes from Simon Nellis.

Most of my questions have been answered, just one left, which is on the cost of risk. You seem to now be forecasting much lower cost of risk than you had initially forecast. Can you tell me what's changed on the risk environment to lead you to lower that [indiscernible]? And then just given all of the uncertainties, where do you think risk costs will go be into next year or the year after? Where do you see the through-the-cycle risk costs going forward.

Murat Koshenov speaking. So our guidance for cost of risk at the end of this year is 1.5%, but you have to take it into account in the wider context, why we set in our guidance, the level from 2% to 3% originally. So, when we were setting the previous guidance, the macro environment was completely different from what we see right now, especially given loc developments in Kazakhstan. It was still a very tricky situation locally with the events from January this year and obviously, at the end of February, we had a very unfortunate event between Russia and Ukraine. So overall, we expect that the overall development, macroeconomic developments will be developing on a was side. Right now, we see that all those negative developments haven't affected the climate in Kazakhstan. And it is reflected in our profitability numbers and also in our individual analysis of individual portfolios, individual borrowers. So overall, if the situation doesn't deteriorate significantly, we think that we are going to keep that cost of risk level around 1.5%. Obviously, there is a caveat here that if in the second half, the situation deteriorates significantly, the guidance may change. But so far, we haven't seen such a deep and negative impact on our development. And on the contrary, we have seen a stabilization. Our customers are changing the relationships with affected counterparties, for example, in Russia that have been sanctioned. So overall, we haven't seen such a negative impact, both locally and internationally. If you add also the fact that the FX loans in our credit portfolio has reduced its percentage. We are looking at this environment in a positive way. And longer term, I mean, do you think cost of risk kind of stays at 1.5%? Or is it... It's a $1 million question, of course, because nobody knows how the situation will change over time, especially with further sanctions that we know are being prepared. As you probably know, the seventh package of sanctions on the EU is quite wide. The overall trend in the coverage and breadth of those sanctions is quite significant. Russia is still a very important partner for us, for Kazakhstan and the bank and obviously for our customers. So, depending on how severe those effects will be affecting Russia and our counterparties of our customers, we will update our guidance accordingly. Nevertheless, none of those sanctioned packages have affected in a bank way of all counterparties in Russia. It is still more or less segment-focused, and they have been focused on individual companies. So overall, if we don't see such a wide and banked sanctioned regime, we shouldn't be affected in a very negative way.

And the next question comes from Ronak Gadhia.

Congratulations on the really good results. I have 2 or 3 questions. I think earlier in the year, management had referenced potential introduction of new regulations, which could have a negative impact on the bank's growth trajectory and NPLs. Could you just highlight if those regulations have been implemented and what impact, if any, they ever had. The second question I have is on growth. Even taking out the inorganic growth from Sber's bank, it seems the organic growth for the bank has been relatively strong for the last 6 or 7 quarters in an environment of increasing uncertainty, increasing rate environment, isn't there a risk that the strong growth could eventually materialize into significant deterioration in asset quality, particularly from the retail side? And then could you just also finally comment on the drop in insurance-related profits? I see the insurance-related expenses have increased quite substantially. Is this just a one-off for this year? Or are we just seeing a lower base for that segment going forward?

Ronak, one moment, please. I'd like to answer the first question in regard to changes in regulation. Yes, you're probably referring to a new law that introduces personal bankruptcy. It's laws -- the work has been done during these 2 quarters, and we expect a near future a new lot to be introduced. The impact specific impact is quite hard to estimate. But of course, along with its introduction, we expect that might impact NPL levels on retail portfolio. Our guidance for this year includes also a possible impact from introduction of that new law. Considering that the portfolio structure of retail clients includes mostly clients with -- who are working with corporates and SME analysis salaries...

Okay. I'll take the second part of your question. How is this retail portfolio growth may affect asset quality? Well, as you probably know, and that's expected, retail loans are more risky than corporate loans and we see that Nevertheless, we are taking a very measured approach to the growth of this portfolio. We try to balance profitability with the risks we are taking credit risk we are taking from those customers and already taken into account our requirements for capital adequacy. We are starting cherry picking those customers and those retail credit products that affect our growth in a positive way, generating a positive growth. So given taking into the fact that taking into account the fact that the growth is strong, and we can cherry pick those customers. We think that on a profitability basis, it will be positive for the bank. As far as asset quality is concerned, still, the majority of our loan book is in corporate segment and the SME segment. Retail is growing, but still the majority of that portfolio is to a base of customers that are safer, that have stayed with us for a longer period of time and whose risk profile we understand better. So, we do not expect any significant growth in NPLs from the retail portfolio because of those cherry picking plus we have initiated a number of measures to address those issues with growing NPLs in those portfolios by improving the efficiency of our soft collection, hard collection and massive processes that can make the whole process of managing quality of the portfolio much more effective.

And I will take a third part of the question. With respect to insurance-related profits. As Margulan mentioned earlier, starting from February, we changed accruals for bank insurance income. And now it is booked mostly on our life insurance company, which means that reserves for the full amount of income is created when we accrue income. But mechanics work as following that going forward, this reserve is starting to amortize through profits. Thus, in the first quarter and second quarter, we were creating reserves, which came from -- which came through insurance expense. But going forward, those expenses would be reversed back to income line and we expect for the half of the year growth of insurance income, and this will be supported by amortization of bancassurance premiums and also some new business which will be generated by life insurance and general insurance companies.

Understood. Just one more on NPLs, asset quality. As you mentioned, your cost of risk has gone up to 1.5% but what we've seen from an NPL perspective, NPLs are actually declining the visibility and the macro is improving. Macro, the macroeconomic activity has remained robust. So, when I look at the provisioning levels, it seems like management are just building up provisions on the Stage 1 and Stage 2 side. So could there be a scenario where if the macro continues to remain strong, the disruption from regulations is not as significant as expected. Could we see a potential reversal in provisions by the end of the year or next year?

Obviously, we wouldn't like to comment how we are going to manage those provisions. We have already allocated for the assets because that would be too early in our opinion. So, what we have seen in the past, like, for example, the second quarter of 2001 was the releases of those provisions. Right now, we see 1.5% level as more normalized and reflecting the current environment and I wouldn't agree without any conditions that we are building those provisions for worse times if I got your suggestions right. No, it's more related to how we manage the portfolio, how we assess the risks going forward. And obviously, there may be both potential on the upside and downside depending on those macroeconomic trends. So, I wouldn't rush to any conclusions in any site at this moment.

And the next question comes from [ Olga Adeno ].

I just have one question left. Basically, it's on your tax rate, which proves continuously much lower than the statutory level and obviously, I would like to understand how do you see developing in the near run and what would be the indication that it's coming closer to statutory level or but not...

Olga, thank you for your question. So, our tax rate is affected by a portion of interest income, which we gain from state securities, which are tax deductible. And thus, effective tax rate is lower to statutory. We had different dynamics during first and second quarter with respect to tax rate because of unrealized gains in first quarter of 2022 and then realized losses in the second quarter this year. But overall, for the like full year, we expect that effective tax rate would be higher compared to the rate for 2021 because we are growing share of loans and the income on those -- interest income on those loans is taxed at 20% interest rate, as corporate -- less effective tax rate would be higher. We also, I think, have one question in chat, which remained amount for it is what about small dividend if ratios and are not good enough for the full pay-out. We would like to comment that different options may be considered provided the situation and results, which we will have for like, let's say, 7 months and environment and overall situation at the time when decisions will be taken. But to summarize, different scenarios may be considered by the management and by the Board of Directors.

Dear ladies and gentlemen, the questions conclude our presentation. Thank you very much for your participation. As usual, our IR team remains open for any of your further questions. Take care, and goodbye.