H&R Real Estate Investment Trust (HRUN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

August 12, 2022

Toronto Stock Exchange CA Real Estate Diversified REITs earnings 42 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator

operator
#1

Good morning, and welcome to H&R Real Estate Investment Trust 2022 Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call. Before beginning the call, H&R would like to remind listeners that certain statements which may include predictions, conclusions, forecasts or projections in the remarks that follow may contain forward-looking information, which reflect the current expectations of management regarding the future events and performance and speak only as of today's date. Forward-looking information requires management to make assumptions or rely on certain material factors and is subject to inherent risks and uncertainties and actual results could differ materially from the statements in the forward-looking information. In discussing H&R's financial and operating performance and in responding to your questions, we may reference certain financial measures, which do not have a meaning recognized or standardized under IFRS or Canadian generally accepted accounting principles and are, therefore, unlikely to be comparable to similar measures presented by other reporting issuers. Non-GAAP measures should not be considered as alternatives to net income or comparable metrics determined in accordance with IFRS and as indicators of H&R's performance, liquidity, cash flows and profitability. H&R's management uses these measures to aid in assessing the REIT's underlying performance and provides these additional measures so that investors can do the same. Additional information about the material factors, assumptions, risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from statements in the forward-looking information and the material factors or assumptions that have been applied in making such statements, together with details on H&R's use of non-GAAP financial measures are described in more detail in H&R's public filings, which can be found on H&R's website and www.sedar.com. I would now like to introduce Mr. Tom Hofstedter, Chief Executive Officer of H&R REIT. Please go ahead, Mr. Hofstedter.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#2

Good morning, and I'd like to thank everyone for joining us today to discuss H&R's second quarterly financial and operating results. With me on the call are Larry Froom, our CFO; and Philippe Lapointe, President. I'm delighted to share with you today our strong second quarter results. Our results highlight the quality of our properties and embedded growth within our portfolio. The portfolio's organic growth, coupled with unit buybacks and creating value for our unitholders, dispositions announced to date furthering our portfolio simplification strategy. Capital allocation is our utmost most top priority and where our focus remains. Year-to-date, we have recycled capital out of or have under contract to sell, $406 million of office, retail and other noncore assets and repurchased and canceled $250 million of our units, highlighting a few key dispositions is $120.7 million agreement executed in July to sell the Canadian office property located at 100 Woodford Drive in Toronto. H&R will have an option to repurchase the property, thereby retaining future redevelopment optionality at no cost to our unitholders. We also entered into a $47 million agreement to sell the second Canadian office property in Calgary and 2 Canadian retail properties in line with our RPS values, providing further support to our net asset value. The closing of these sales remain subject to certain customary conditions being satisfied and are expected to occur in September 2022. Our net asset value per unit grew to $21.06 at Q1 to $22.14 at June 30 of 2022, driven by the 10.5 million units that we purchased and canceled with our SAB during the quarter, organic net operating income and the growth of and strengthening of the U.S. dollar. Year-to-date, we have bought back $22.1 million units at a weighted average cost of approximately $13 a unit representing a substantial 41% discount to our NAV per unit of $22.14. Our active unit buyback, a very strong same-property net operating income growth are driving NAV growth and financial results. With today's strong quarter results, we are on our way to creating a simplified growth-oriented company that will serve a significant value to our unitholders. And with that, I'll turn it over to Philippe to discuss our residential platform, Lantower.

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#3

Good morning, everyone. I'm happy to be on this call to discuss the Q2 update and to go over our quarterly highlights. But before I do, I want to thank our investors for their time, generosity and feedback over the last 90 days. While the team and I are encouraged as H&R has been among the best-performing Canadian REITs year-to-date, we still have a lot of work to do and look forward to share more exciting updates before year's end. The U.S. Sunbelt and gateway markets continue to experience amplified population and income growth, driving affordability in our rental portfolio. As of Q2, our rent-to-income ratio sits at approximately 20%, well below the standard benchmark for affordability. And so we are confident that we will continue to see strong future rental growth however, not at the detriment of a resident's ability to pay. Inflation is undoubtedly another area of conversation regarding how the overall economy will impact multifamily fundamentals. The common thinking goes that with inflation comes equivalent expense increases. While we do expect some increased cost creep in the future, we have experienced only marginal increases in most expense categories through operational efficiencies stemming from our smart technology initiatives, self-guided leasing and negotiated national accounts. Our quarter-over-quarter and 6-month year-to-date expenses have actually decreased slightly compared to the same time period for 2021. And more good news, as we have seen in previous quarters, we are continuing to experience substantial rental rate growth in all of our U.S. Sunbelt markets. That we, as an example, during Q2, our new lease trade-out for the entire portfolio, excluding Jackson Park, was approximately 16.6%. Moving on to Jackson Park. We continue to see positive trends in the amount of traffic, renewal rates and number of leases executed. At the end of the second quarter, Jackson Park's occupancy was 97.2% and the percent of residents renewing their leases during the second quarter hovered in the high 50% range, which reflects another quarter of continued strength in demand fundamentals for the New York City submarket. On to dispositions. In June, we strategically disposed of our only asset in San Antonio, Texas. Given that San Antonio did not fit in our long-term growth strategy, we felt it prudent to dispose of that asset at a premium to our fair market values, further reinforcing our conviction in our now. We intend to reinvest the proceeds in our core markets and to transfer the equity in a tax-efficient manner into more accretive long-term investments. On the portfolio valuation front, considering what is occurring in the capital markets and the ongoing adjustments to monetary policy, we erred on the side of caution regarding valuation cap rates. While we are still witnessing competitive sale processes and believe in the sustainability of our values, we have elected to increase our portfolio's cap rates by 0.125. However, in light of our rent and NOI growth, our overall portfolio value actually increased slightly in Q2. We feel confident that our strong NOI growth fundamentals will support our valuations despite the potential headwinds of future cap rate expansion. On the JV development front in Hercules, California, Phase 2 of our development name, the Grand at Bayfront received its final certificate of occupancy in March and is currently 59% leased. Shoreline Gateway or Long Beach tallest residential tower at 35 stories has seen strong rent demand and is now 69% leased. On the wholly owned development front, Lantower West Love in Dallas, Texas is on schedule as we expect to lay the foundation for the [ tower crane ] in the coming weeks. Also in Dallas, Texas, Lantower and Midtown recently broke ground with site work well underway. And lastly, in Tampa, Florida, we are wrapping up the building permit for a development called Lantower Bayside. This development will consist of 271 units and is expected to break ground in the coming months. More good news on the development front. Again, during the second quarter, we successfully rezoned a 5.8 acre land site from industrial to multifamily. This project will consist of 430 apartments and is adjacent to Downtown Dallas. Also in Dallas, we closed on [ Clin ] Phase 2 land site, which will accommodate 250 apartments on made story podium development next to our currently planned 295 apartments, 5-story graft developments in North Dallas. In April, we closed on an infill cycle on Highway 19 in Clearwater that will accommodate a 400-unit 5-story wrap development. Lastly, in late June, we closed on a 381 apartment garden-style development site in South Atlanta, Florida that sits in the entrance of Neo City, a mixed-use development anchored by a planned research book. Our residential development platform is supported by our WAM pipeline of over 5,000 potential units at a basis of approximately USD 28,000 per unit, which is a substantial discount to the 50,000-plus per unit pricing that we are seeing in the sum of markets for similar A+ sites such as ours. In summary, we have continued excitement about the future value creation opportunities at H&R. And with that, I will pass along the conversation to Larry.

Larry Froom

executive
#4

Thank you, Philippe, and good morning, everyone. As Tom mentioned, we are excited to report our results this quarter, which reflect our simplified portfolio strategy and alignment with properties producing higher growth. That growth is clear from our year-to-date results of same-property net operating income on a cash basis, which grew 19% compared with the first half of 2021. Q2 total same-property net operating income on a cash basis continued to be strong and grew 18.8% compared to the same quarter last year. Our residential division led the way with a 43.7% increase or 39% in U.S. dollars for the quarter primarily due to an increase in occupancy at Jackson Park in New York, which was in lease up last year. Excluding Jackson Park, growth was a very healthy 20.8%. As Philippe has already discussed, Lantower Residential continues to see significant increases on new leases and renewals. Same-property NOI cash basis from office properties increased 23.2% for the quarter, primarily due to the burn-off of Hess Corporation's rent-free period that expired in June 2021. Excluding the rent-free period, the increase is 1.5%. Our office properties are located in strong urban centers with a weighted average lease term of EUR 8.5 and leased to strong creditworthy tenants. I would like to point out that only 5% of our total office footage is subject to lease expiries between now and the end of 2023. And 23,000 square feet expires during the remainder of 2022 and 349,000 square feet expires in 2023. Retail same property NOI on a cash basis decreased by 3.5% for the quarter, driven by higher nonrecoverable property operating costs at River Landing Commercial, which is in lease-up. Two major tenants are expected to commence occupancy in the near term, a 49,000 square foot lease in Q4 of this year and another 63,000 square foot lease in Q1 2023. And lastly, Industrial same-property NOI on a cash basis increased by 4.9% for the quarter, primarily due to increased occupancy and contractual rental escalations. During the quarter, we leased the vacant 314,000 square foot industrial property at 2121 Cornwall in Oakville, Ontario, which will commence in Q3 2022. H&R has a 50% ownership interest in this property. We also completed a 5-year lease renewal on a 371,000 square foot Montreal property at our ownership interest with rents set to increase by 125% in January 2023. Overall, FFO for Q2 2022 was $0.284 per unit and AFFO per unit was $0.257. Based on our distributions of $0.135 per unit for the quarter, our AFFO payout ratio was a very healthy 52.5%. Debt to total assets at June 30, 2022, was 44%. We finished the quarter with cash on hand of $71.7 million and $619.6 million available under our unused lines of credit. Our net asset value per unit grew from $21.06 at March 31, 2022 to $22.14 at June 30, 2022, primarily due to the purchase and cancellation of 10.5 million units under our NCIB and the strengthening of the U.S. dollar. We repurchased these 10.5 million units at a weighted average price of $13, a 41% discount to $22.14 NAV per unit at June 30, 2022. And so in summary, we are very pleased with our Q2 results. Our high-quality portfolio of properties are well positioned to produce strong operating results going forward. And with that, I will turn the call back to Tom to open up for questions.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#5

Operator?

Operator

operator
#6

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Sam Damiani from TD Securities.

Sam Damiani

analyst
#7

Congratulations on the solid results. First off, just on the dispositions, Tom, perhaps, with the agreements set on these latest acquisitions set in June, obviously, the process was underway in the spring during the market volatility, I wonder if you could tell us how that went, what sort of buyer you're working with? And how -- how the pricing compares to the fair values at Q1?

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#8

Are you referring to the U.S. retail results?

Sam Damiani

analyst
#9

No, I'm referencing, sorry, specifically 100 Wynford and the 3 other assets that are also under contract.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#10

I said in line with our averse values, the right to purchase is because it has residential intensification potential, although that's down the road. We control the rezoning, and that's why we gave ourselves the right to buy that.

Sam Damiani

analyst
#11

And was there any fair value change on them during the quarter to true them up to the sale price?

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#12

No.

Sam Damiani

analyst
#13

Okay. That's good. But overall, the process -- like how would you characterize the process given the market volatility.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#14

It was an off-market deal. So I can't respond to your question on market volatility. If we would have gone to the market, I can't speculate. But since it was off-market deal, it was very fluid. It was not an issue.

Sam Damiani

analyst
#15

And just on the leasing in the residential and industrial side, have you seen any deceleration of momentum that would indicate slowing of the economy in your portfolio?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#16

Sam, it's Philippe. No, not yet. We're still having, obviously, a record level of renewals. As I previously mentioned, we're seeing a rental rate that is in line with what we've seen in the last 3 quarters. And so obviously paying close attention to the data, making sure that we're not increasing our rents at the detriment of our residents' balance sheet. But no, we're not noticing any slowdown whatsoever.

Sam Damiani

analyst
#17

And just on the same property for Lantower excluding Jackson Park, it was over 20%. I guess how does that how does that portfolio do that at stabilized? I guess? I'm just trying to struggling a little bit with the math.

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#18

Sorry, Sam, one more time -- how does the -- is that coming across clearly...

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#19

Sorry, 1 second Sam. Let's just -- increase the volume. Sam, do you mind repeating the question?

Sam Damiani

analyst
#20

Oh, sure. Yes. Just wondering, how does a portfolio that's mid- to high 90s leased? How does it generate 20% plus same property? I guess, was there some properties that had an occupancy increase year-over-year. just I guess, help us understand how the occupancy and the rent change would triangulate into a 20% plus same property NOI.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#21

Yes. I mean, Sam, the math is really simple, right? So if you're looking at -- if you think about our NOI margins of the upper 50s, I think it's 57% or 58%. And as I previously stated, no significant expense creep in year-to-date, yet we -- I can't recall what we did last quarter, but we did 16.6% this quarter. The math is ultimately simple, right? And so it doesn't time perfectly, but no, it's not an occupancy thing. It's purely a matter of revenue is growing at a very fast clip and expenses are somewhat muted.

Sam Damiani

analyst
#22

And the muted expense experience that you're enjoying right now, is that something you see somewhat sustainable just given the specifics of the portfolio? Or will you see ultimately the portfolio being impacted by the macro inflation that we're seeing?

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#23

I think 95% of the expense creep that folks are experiencing, we've abated through us leveraging, and it's not just us, right? So some of the larger publicly traded REITs in the U.S. have done the same. But utilization of technology is really muted that expense creep that are the folks who haven't made the investment in the last 18 months or now, I guess, wishing that they have. Having said that, I think there's nothing that technology can do to help our property taxes and insurance. And I would anticipate that we're obviously accruing for it, but I would anticipate there being year-over-year some significant increases especially on property taxes as you would imagine, given that our values are obviously skyrocket as a result of our very healthy NOI growth. But [indiscernible] answer your question, no. I mean, not surprised to see that there hasn't been much of a change because of the monumental investment we made on that side of the house few years ago and last year. And credit goes to the team in Dallas who were really pushing that through. I mean we're in the middle -- on the back end of COVID, it's a very difficult setting. Some groups have done it that haven't been completely proven yet despite that, there's a tremendous amount of leadership in Dallas that show through and the execution was in your flows. And so much credit goes to the teams of the implementation of the tech packages.

Operator

operator
#24

Our next question comes from Jenny Ma from BMO Capital Markets.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#25

Maybe just expanding on the multifamily metrics. Philippe, did you say that there was 16.6% same-property rent growth in the portfolio?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#26

That's right for the quarter.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#27

Okay. Great. Can you talk to us about how you are raising rents on renewals on your tenants? Obviously, there's the technology yield management software angle. But given how tight the market is, are you leaning on that? Or are you looking at the tenant's individual financial situation, trying to push as far as you can without losing them? And how does that rent growth differ across the markets you're in?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#28

Great question. I think generally speaking to the last question first. Generally speaking, we see the same thing across the board. I mean, because we have a Kasai Jackson Park, we happen to be in the Sunbelt markets. And so the story is similar in North Carolina, Florida and Texas. As it relates to the renewals in the first quarter, I'm using round numbers, but in the first quarter, our renewal rate was about 4.5% in terms of the increases that we are asking over current residents. And the reason we have done that was a self-imposed governor. And so in Q1, much of the growth came in new leases. And so the delta between new leases was probably to volume, but my guess is anywhere between 12% and 15% because we're seeing some very healthy 18%, 20% increases in the first quarter. This quarter, I think the delta is 1% to 2% so we took the governor off. And I think our renewals are somewhat in the ballpark of 14% to 16% as is our new leases. It's on a blended basis, it's a much more balanced increase that we're seeing. In some respects, unexpectedly, our renewal ratio is also at an all-time high. And so last quarter was in the low 60s. This quarter, it was approximately 60%. Historically, we've seen anywhere between 40% to 50%. And so not only will be increasing at a very healthy clip, but also doing renewing at a healthier clip than we've seen in the past. And so my biggest concern and what keeps me up at night is ultimately the balance sheet and the credit of the residents as we're increasing rents, whether on a renewal or new leases is they're really coming at a detriment of the other balance sheet more important than their ability to pay. And I feel comfort in knowing that the 20% -- the rent-to-income ratio of 20% is almost identical to what it was in '18 and '19 in pre-COVID, which leads me to believe that there's still a ton of runway left.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#29

Okay. Are the tenants willing to pay these higher rents because market rents are just going up across the board? Or is there any element of the housing market cooling down with affordability actually getting worse and maybe some tenants that may have bought, let's say, last year or earlier are more inclined to stay. Is there any element of that in your markets?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#30

Yes. I mean it's a great question. I think just to summarize the question, there's an enormous shortage of housing period, right, apartments and loans in the Sunbelt markets. And there's -- obviously, it was true before COVID with COVID and the migration patterns within the U.S. that just exacerbated the issue. Obviously, with interest rates rising, I don't know what the latest was but a couple of weeks ago, you can get a mortgage for about 5%. And ultimately, what that made was an otherwise already expensive purchase that much more unattainable for resins. And so what we're seeing and what the data would suggest is that the -- on the right side of the standard deviations, our residents are staying longer, but they're also a little bit older in our communities. And I think that's because of the lack of opportunity for them to move up to another house or frankly, there's just a lack of supply for them to move from 1 community to another. And so I think all of those factors play or come into play, but the truth of the matter is there's an enormous under suppliable apartment in the Sunbelt. And frankly, the staff that we're seeing is 23, 24, we think construction starts, we are going to start plummeting. And so it's going to exactly further exacerbate the issue. And so I think that it is more a supply issue. There's a ton of demand, there's just not enough supply to meet the demand. And therefore, what we're seeing is obviously the very healthy increases across the board.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#31

Okay. Great. Turning to the development. Is the intent of H&R still to eventually sell the partial interest that you have in Shoreline and Hercules Phase 2? And just wondering if you could comment on whether or not the buyers of previous partnerships might be interested in coming back for these ones.

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#32

I think the answer is yes. There's definitely meant to be sold. They're not -- they weren't meant to build to core. They're also in markets that we're not in. So from an operational standpoint, I don't know that it would make a ton of sense but we want to be opportunistic. And frankly, we think that perhaps now is not the right plan to be selling those assets, but in short order, they will be sold. Now whether to our partners as a third party, my guess is it's probably going to be a third party, there's going to be no shortage of the buyers for that type of product.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#33

When you say now is not the right time, do you mean just given the uncertainty in the market or the fact that it's a partial interest makes it harder to unload, like could you expand on that point?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#34

No, it's not a partial interest because we're all in the same page. We're selling it as one. So we really is [indiscernible] lack of liquidity for that discounted interest. No, I think it's more along the lines of given the potential headwinds that we thought that the fact that the property is not stabilized, we believe we could be wrong, we believe that to get maximum pricing, they can probably be best that we waited for the assets to be leased about 80%. And so we're sure that we're at 59%. Hercules, we're a little bit behind that and say in Q4, Q1 feels like just about the right time to put what we believe to be a best-in-class asset to the largest audience possible.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#35

Okay. Okay. Got you. On the dispositions, for the 1031 like-kind exchange, I think your sales exceeded the land purchases in Florida. Does the 1031 like-kind exchange apply to land acquisitions? Or is it just for IPP? I'm just trying to figure if you could maximize the room that you have on 1031.

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#36

No, you absolutely can do it for land. We still have proceeds left to deploy. And as Paul mentioned, we're obviously very busy on the disposition side, both in Canada and the U.S., and we're exploring a variety of opportunities. And so whether those funds are coming to other disposition proceeds are in of itself, they will be reallocated to either land for development or income-producing assets within Lantower.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#37

Okay. Great. And then my last question is when looking at the leasing activity, particularly with the industrial assets in Oakville and Montreal, just wondering if you can give us a bit more guidance on how to model that income coming in, in, I guess, Q4 and perhaps Q1 of next year?

Larry Froom

executive
#38

Jenny, it's hard to say because it's single tenant assets, and I don't want to be cute, we have confidential agreements with our tenants. And to give you the rents and what the increases are, I think, is a bit unfair on that. But I can, there are substantial increases, ballpark they are coming off -- the one in Montreal is coming off about $5 per square foot rent you can model it that way. I think we said a 125% increase.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#39

Jenny, we were all leased in the relationship with the market. There was no discounts or it was really it's a very vibrant market, and we got the market for.

Jenny Ma

analyst
#40

Right. So Montreal is going to have a big step-up. Oakville, remind me, was it vacant throughout Q2? It's going to be a big step.

Larry Froom

executive
#41

Oakville was vacant for about 9 months.

Operator

operator
#42

Our next question comes from Matt Kornack from National Bank Financial.

Matt Kornack

analyst
#43

I guess, Larry, just a quick follow-up to Jenny's question there on Oakville. Is there any fixturing or otherwise that would prevent it from being cash rent in Q3? Or is that a cash contribution?

Larry Froom

executive
#44

That is a good question. Is there a prevent period? I'm not sure. The signal that there's a 1 month rent free period.

Matt Kornack

analyst
#45

Okay. perfect. And then also a follow-up to Jenny, with regard to Shoreline and the Grand, can you give a sense as to -- I know it's in the joint venture portfolio, and you're only 1/3 interest, but the NOI contribution, how you think that kind of ramps up as you lease up? I know you have to get over your threshold of covering costs. There may not be much there. But just what should we expect on that front?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#46

So we've got estimated figures. But what I tell you, Matt, is just -- I guess from our perspective, rather than trying to underwrite what a stabilized NOI is, I think you just talking back your mind the fact that we will be proceeding with dispositions of those assets. They weren't meant to be held. But in the event that they were to be held, approximately both of them on a combined basis at our interest was approximately USD 6 million.

Matt Kornack

analyst
#47

Okay. And do you know if -- it wasn't negative in the quarter, but was it above 0 at this point?

Larry Froom

executive
#48

It was actually slightly negative. That was a couple of hundred thousand dollar negative in the quarter.

Matt Kornack

analyst
#49

Okay. That's helpful. And then on the $110 million that is being held as restricted cash on the 1031, you're pretty certain that you will ultimately find an acquisition that you can put that tax benefit to? Is that fair to say?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#50

Yes, without kind of tilting our hand, we're going to have some exciting updates for the following quarter, but we're seeing some pretty enticing mispriced arbitrage opportunities, especially in the Sunbelt. So not mean to be cute in the flex, but stay tuned and hopefully we'll have an interesting Q3 to expand on that very question.

Matt Kornack

analyst
#51

Okay. Fair enough. And the last one for me. Just there's been some transaction activity at some pretty impressive pricing for Caledon or close to Caledon Land. I know you have a fair value that's not included in some of these H&R add interest cost numbers for the industrial land in Caledon. But can you give us a sense as to where you're holding that on your books on a price per acre.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#52

$2.5 million an acre.

Matt Kornack

analyst
#53

Okay. Some recent transaction activity proves that, I would if not more.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#54

Well, there's 1 at $2.5 million, but there's been more acreage around $3 million. There's nothing that's been below $2.5 million that I am aware of.

Operator

operator
#55

Our next question comes from Sumayya Syed from CIBC.

Sumayya Hussain

analyst
#56

Just I wanted to go over 145 Wellington with the zoning progress this quarter. I was wondering what the next steps if you guys are in discussions or receive interest or just what the plan is with that asset?

Larry Froom

executive
#57

I'm sorry, I can't hear the question. Can you repeat?

Sumayya Hussain

analyst
#58

I just wanted to, I guess, go over 145 Wellington, given the zoning progress in the quarter, just wondering about next steps, if there's any discussions or interest on that asset?

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#59

Right now, it's leased, and we've achieved zoning as you know. And so right now, we're going to just run off the leases. There's no met plans to redevelop or to sell.

Sumayya Hussain

analyst
#60

Okay. And then just turning to Lantower wondering, Philippe, if you could go over just the turnover trends in the portfolio and how they're sort of comparing to what you've seen historically?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#61

Sorry, did you say renewal volumes or renewal ratios.

Sumayya Hussain

analyst
#62

Turnover trends.

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#63

Turnover trends. They're historically as low. So back to my original point, our renewal ratio is in the low 60s and now in the first quarter, it's around 60% in the second quarter. If I look back in the last 9 years, it's probably a little lower than 50%. And so not only are we achieving record rental rates but also record renewal percentages. And that's also true at Jackson Park in New York city.

Sumayya Hussain

analyst
#64

Okay. And then just sticking to U.S. multifamily. I was wondering if there's any update or changes on the transition market side in terms of pricing, having moved from last quarter to today?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#65

No, it's surprising. I must have missed it somewhat unexpected, but the -- frankly, the sheer amount of equity and capital that wants to be placed in multifamily, either because of a preference for that asset type or frankly, just the ability to come on and to have that explosive growth is running most of the properties to still being valued in the mid-3%. And what I think is going to happen is as evidenced by our disposition in San Antonio arguably, our least best performing asset in the sleep is of all of our markets and still achieving a 3.6% cap rate. I don't see there being any softness in our fair market values. And I think the transactions that are going to occur in the next 60 days as everyone comes off from the summer breaks and the activity picks up for Labor Day. We're going to see further transactions being done at a sub-4 cap rate, despite the fact that the interest rates may imply that there will be negative leverage in the first year, the fact that people are rolling their NOI is at 14%, 15% and getting out of that negative leverage here quickly is enticing to much both private and institutional capital. And so in short, no, if anything from the amount of calls -- the inbound calls that we receive on our own assets from folks trying to secure them on an off-market basis at those numbers, give us additional comfort in our fair market values.

Operator

operator
#66

Our next question comes from Jimmy Shan from RBC Capital Markets.

Khing Shan

analyst
#67

Yes. So just on the office assets that you have in the process of rezoning. Can you remind me how are they being valued on the balance sheet? I guess I'm thinking specifically at 145 Wellington, now that it's rezoned, is there an incremental value? Or are those assets essentially being valued as if they're existing office properties?

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#68

It's valued as an existing office property, but in really what happens in this -- in the entire REIT sector, is the value of the revenue-producing asset has gone up and the cap rate has been lower by the fact that you'd have an intensification. So it's not valuated, and you'll find the same thing with choice in real Canada and everybody else. They're not evaluating it based upon $250 to $300 a square foot, they're valuating it based upon a decreased cap rate overall for someone buying a revenue-producing assets. And you can see when the old CECA building a willing sheet sold to Westdale, it was actually sold on the same basis as well as more aggressive cap than actually valuation based upon the residential and commercial density that will be available upon rezoning. So in essence, you do get a lift, but you don't get a lift -- a full lift to the market values, if it's land value, you get a lift as a more aggressive cap because the buyer is not buying a project that's shovel-ready at this point in time as we have tenants in.

Khing Shan

analyst
#69

I see. So the aggressive cap, I guess, embeds the incremental density and so on 145 Wellington if to assume the value was -- even with the rezoning we shouldn't see any kind of lift this quarter -- next quarter.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#70

Not this quarter, but my guess is you'll find the value increase over time as we get closer to burn off of the lease end. And as now the effect was just recently resumed falls into our reappraisals.

Larry Froom

executive
#71

And just a bit more color, Jimmy, that we did a revaluation, we had a third-party appraisal on that asset in Q1, and we've got a bit of a bump up based on the expected rezoning, the expected rezoning came subsequent to the second quarter. So we didn't change that value from Q1. There should still be a little bit more of an uptick now that we actually have it in our hands, that rezoning, but we didn't change it from Q1 where it was still expected. So it was a bit of a discount based on expected rezoning that we now...

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#72

The timing is recent on the rezoning. You can expect it to increase gradually, but not to the level of the value as vacant land.

Khing Shan

analyst
#73

Okay. Got it. And then...

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#74

The praises will never do that. They won't give you the full value. That's just the way system works.

Khing Shan

analyst
#75

Okay. And on winter drive, the -- and maybe this is too simplistic way to look at it. But the embedded upside in the rezoning of that asset is effectively the difference between sale price and the option price. Is that how kind of -- if I were to gauge what that incremental value could be. It's essentially that $39 million difference less time value of money.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#76

Sorry, I don't understand the question, but I'm not hearing it well.

Larry Froom

executive
#77

The question is, how is that repurchase option price based? Was it based on the revalue of the potential...

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#78

No, it's not priced at all. There's no math to it. It's just a negotiation.

Larry Froom

executive
#79

The potential of the rezoning is far more.

Thomas Hofstedter

executive
#80

I understand that the rezoning is speculative at this point in time. absolutely no idea if it's going to happen or when it's going to happen. We are controlling the process, but we're not confident that it's necessarily going to happen and what we were going to achieve and we're going to have to give to the city in order to get it. It does have the potential that we retain the rights. I wouldn't evaluate that option as significant. I don't know, it's totally speculative. It's very similar to the option in the bow, which I can't put a dollar amount on either. The real question you should ask yourself is, can I sell that option today? What would someone pay me for that option today? And the answer is, since that person would have to pay in cash out of their pockets, they probably wouldn't pay a whole lot, but it does have as a freebie a whole lot of potential value. So good luck trying to evaluate it. It's not evaluated in our books at anything at this point in time.

Khing Shan

analyst
#81

Okay. Lastly, just on topical valuation. So on the U.S. multifamily asset pricing. Some of the U.S. REITs are commencing seeing cap rates moving as high as 60 to 100 basis points in markets like Dallas, Raleigh. You're talking about 4 to 4.5 from 3 to 3.5 at the peak. I don't know if cap rates are tricky these days, I think, I don't know what NOI people are capping. So I'm just trying to square that with what you're talking about kind of sub-4. Is it that we're seeing pricing pressures in certain different types of assets or not? And I'm just trying to see if there's any comment you can make in that regard?

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#82

No, I'm not disputing the information you received, that it's not indicative in any of the data sets that we're looking at, both we're tracking about in every market, and I think I mentioned this previously, but we're trying about 100 light deals to get a better feel for in the event that we had to make a quick acquisition or we are looking to take advantage of a mispriced opportunity. And most of the opportunities that we took to take a look at. I would argue almost 90% of them are sub-373 cap rate currently. Now there haven't been many trades, but I think the one confusing part is, I think everyone is pontificating on cap rates because naturally, you would expect cap rates to expand based on the cost of capital and more specific on the cost of debt. However, there hasn't been many trades as any -- so only not any public trades that would support a cap rates moving above 4%. Now what happens in the next 90 days, who knows, but again, I'm not looking at anything right now apart from the odd missed price opportunity here or there by perhaps a developer that's distressed. But I would argue that most folks that are active in the market currently looking at current stabilized opportunities in subline Class A asset class. There are no for caps to be found.

Operator

operator
#83

We have no further questions in queue. I'd like to turn the call back over to Philippe Lapointe for closing remarks.

Philippe Lapointe

executive
#84

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today, and we look forward to continuing to update you on our progress over the upcoming quarters. Thank you, and have a great weekend. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

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