Hazer Group Limited ($HZR)

On behalf of Hazer Group, I'd like to welcome you to this March quarter investor webinar. [Operator Instructions] Presenting today is Hazer Group's MD and CEO, Glenn Corrie; and Tom Coolican, who will take you through the March quarterly report and provide an update on recent operational and commercial progress. I'll now hand over to Glenn and Tom to run through the presentation.

Thank you, Simon, and very good morning to everybody, and welcome to our Q3 webinar. Thanks for joining us today. As Simon said, Tom Coolican is on the call, our Chief Operating Officer. He's joining us from India actually, where he's engaging with the KBR scale-up team, but also taking the opportunity to liaise with some potential clients and customers there. Together, we're going to present our quarterly results. We're going to give an update on our key developments across our business. I think it's fair to say we've had another really important quarter for the company, one where we've continued to execute on our strategy and build on that very important commercial momentum that we established in 2025. I think most of you are familiar with our vision. Those relatively new to our story, we're transforming gas, natural gas. We're transforming that into clean energy in the form of hydrogen and a critical mineral in the form of graphite. We do that with zero emissions in our process. It's one technology or process that serves two very discrete but important markets, the hydrogen market and the critical mineral, the graphite market. Our competitive advantages are strengthening. We're low cost, we're pragmatic. The technology or the process is scalable. I would add to that. It's secure, it's local, and it integrates wonderfully into existing supply chains and facilities, and it's available to decarbonize industries, very hard to abate industries today. If we just go down to the next slide, this is a new slide. I think it's a very nice snapshot of where our business is today. Hydrogen, as many of you know, is a major feedstock to critical industries like refining, liquid fuels, ammonia, fertilizer production. You don't create or produce fertilizer without urea. You don't produce urea without ammonia, normal ammonia without hydrogen. So all of these sectors require hydrogen, and they're all experiencing fairly significant supply chain disruption at the moment. Against this backdrop, of course, Hazer is extremely well positioned to deliver a local, secure, reliable source of clean energy or clean hydrogen and critical minerals. On the left-hand side, all of the elements of our company or our technology are in place. The technology is substantially derisked. We've invested over 15 years in developing the process. Over $130 million has been invested. It's low cost. It's scalable with various components that are proprietary of our technology and our process to meet that demand today. Hazer Graphite, as you've seen in the recent months, is increasingly valuable co-product and our partnerships and relationships continue to build and endorse what we're developing as a company. So really uniquely positioned corporately on the right-hand side of that slide, you'll see we'll talk -- we're well funded. I'll talk to that very shortly. And we've got strong support from the analyst community and Philip Pepe from Shaw and Declan Voni from Euroz and Hartley. It's my view that they're two of the best analysts on the street. In terms of our agenda this morning, I'll kick off with the highlights. We'll step through then the macro, the hydrogen outlook, the graphite market outlook. Tom will discuss our commercial scale up and our go-to-market strategy. We'll then do a bit of a deep dive on our graphite monetization strategy. There's been some material developments in the last quarter, including an offtake, a big one, which is a material milestone for us. So we'll cover that in detail. We'll round out with a corporate update, some observations from CERAWeek, which I attended in March and then cap off with the near-term catalysts and then dive into Q&A. In terms of our highlights for the quarter, I think it's fair to say we posted a strong quarter of performance. We continue to build on those very important foundations of commercialization that we've talked about. We kicked off that global marketing campaign. We're seeing encouraging early traction from the market. Importantly, Tom will talk to shortly that post-end quarter completion of the PDP, the process design package that directly supports these marketing efforts, but gives clients greater confidence in the scalability, but also the underlying economics of a Hazer plant. Canada is advancing potential there for expansion. KBR has now been brought in to provide further certainty to the engineering and also the project delivery, the 2 things that they do best with plants and engineering and clients. It was a big quarter for graphite monetization, formal -- in key markets and the signing of our first commercial large-scale LOI in steel. That provides visibility on pricing and visibility on value. And then finally, pipeline conversion. It's early days. We're live on several active opportunities at the moment. Projects are progressing. We can't disclose full details yet. But what I am encouraged by is the level of engagement across Australia, internationally in several industries with potentially significant customers. In numbers at the bottom, we ended the quarter with almost $15.5 million of liquidity. That's an extended runway through significant commercial licensing milestones that we see ahead. That was strengthened by inflows from Arena due to some commercial and economic milestones being met and that lower cash burn year -- quarter-on-quarter, which was down 16% on the previous quarter. Diving then into the markets on Slide 9. I won't go through the numbers because I know many of you are familiar with this, but it's -- hydrogen market is a big market. It's a big problem. It's 1 billion tonnes of CO2 problem. That's the prize, of course, that's worth reiterating for Hazer. What's changed since we last spoke is that the conflict in the Middle East is impacting the global supply of refined products, diesel, refined -- other refined products, ammonia, fertilizer, other liquid fuels. So in this context, Hazer is increasingly being recognized as a provider of local, secure, reliable sources of hydrogen that directly supports the resilience of these critical supply chains. Beyond this, we're seeing growing interest in hydrogen demand for data centers, in particular, in the U.S. and North America but also growing interest in sustainable aviation fuels where hydrogen is a major component of the feedstock stack. Geographically, we are seeing an uptick in interest from our Asian counterparties, Japan, South Korea, India, all looking to continue to shore up energy supplies from stable jurisdictions. Of course, these are big markets for steel. And then in steelmaking, the interest in decarbonization remains very strong. Significant capital continues to go flowing into these initiatives. You may have seen Stegra, one of the big European green steel developers has recently secured around $1.5 billion of funding to complete their projects. So some really important signposts coming out of the hydrogen market. It's a similar dynamic in graphite. If we move to the next slide. Graphite, of course, is a critical mineral for the energy transition. I just want to call out EVs or electric vehicle demand. It is surging at the moment as a result of, again, the energy crisis. That's going to absolutely place increasing pressure on supply chains for critical minerals like graphite, a major component of battery technology. In Australia, at least year-on-year, February versus February of last year, I believe the demand for EVs has doubled. So again, some really important signposts coming out of at least the critical mineral markets. This, of course, at the highest level is exacerbated by China's domination of production and processing of graphite, and that is going to continue to create supply chain vulnerabilities. That concentration risk is continuing to be recognized by governments as well as industry who are actively looking to diversify away from that supply chain and secure alternative sources of supply. It's worth mentioning that one Hazer facility at our design package, our base design package of 30,000 tonnes per annum produces almost 100,000 tonnes per annum of graphite. Now if you look at the battery market, that's 5% of the total demand for graphite that goes into batteries today. So we can be a major solution for the energy transition in terms of that local source of supply of a critical mineral. Tom, I think this is a good place to hand over to you in terms of the scale-up strategy as well as our design package, please.

Okay. Thanks, Glenn, and good morning, everyone. Yes. Welcome to our briefing. I'm here in India with the KBR technology team in one of their technology centers. Arguably, this team is the best fluidized fluid solids team in the world. And really, we're working through some of the technology improvements that we're making and growing the technology, especially for the scales that we're now talking about. But overall, I wanted to quickly give you a brief on where we are with KBR, building that alliance right through the licensing and the KBR operations. So we're on track for commercialization. The team is working incredibly well together, and the first studies are in, and we're working on those studies right now. So it's good to see the first runs on the board with KBR. So proposals are being sent out. Multiple customers are requesting proposals at the moment, and we have more inbounds coming in. So as Glenn said, it's covering quite a number of industries. So we're getting a lot of interest from the liquid fuels and sustainable aviation fuels industries. We're getting a lot of interest from steelmakers and obviously, the integration of the hydrogen for reduction as well as the graphite into the carbon for carbon steel. It's a real integrated product there and also from chemicals industries, too. So we spent the last few days having a lot of deep dive into chemicals industry. So it's been an excellent progress for this period with KBR. The main areas that I think maybe jump to the next slide, Simon, if you could, and we'll talk a bit more about the process design package. So we did announce that the PDP is complete for clients to now come and have a look at. And actually, we can now use this as the basis for developing a client or a site-specific design package. So just to sort of give you an idea about what this looks like from the inside out, the plant layout, the plant design has to be done. And so that's what we were able to sort of assess at this. We decided on a 30,000 tonne design being a midpoint between the ammonia production, steam methane reformers, which we're really targeting to replace with their 11 tonnes per tonne of CO2. They go 30,000 to 50,000 tonnes per annum. So it's quite a nice size for a design package for us to put out in the market. So all the flow sheets of how the package and how the unit is put together, they're all part of this design package. The plant layout, the buildings, the silo, the loading system, the importing system, that's all part of this package. We look at the cost estimates and all of the major pieces of equipment have the general design drawings to the point where we can go out and actually get some costing for those components. So we do cost estimates so we can build a real good CapEx view. By having all the process done, we can actually then walk through the operation of the facility and get a good view on what its ongoing operational costs will be, its turnaround periods and its maintenance windows. And then finally, we do an emissions assessment of the facility as well. So at this size, and we make assumptions about different places in the world, what their gas is, what their energy is, what their feedstocks would be, and we have an emissions profile for this unit as well. So this then becomes what we would use to have done a precheck before we go to a client facility in any country in the world, take their inputs and then process them through this design package so that we can create a specific bespoke process design package for every company that requires it. This is something that KBR did very well. And in the slide here, you can see and in their announcement, the President of Sustainable Solutions of KBR Jay Ibrahim commented on the value of having a PDP for this technology. So it really does progress the technology forward in terms of its deployment and commercialization. We've also had some pretty good progress. And again, linked to KBR, which is fantastic, has come into the Canada project. So we've engaged KBR to help us really work with Fortis on growing the maturity of the engineering works, doing a really deep dive into the constructability, the cost estimates and also the scalability of this project. So it's fantastic to see that they've actually jumped in. We see that there's going to be significant cost optimization working with KBR, and they have a modular approach to development as well. So this will really fast track that sort of early stages going through engineering design so that this project can get to FID as soon as possible. The view that we're seeing at the moment is it will actually redefine value for the project. And we should have a more material update, as we said in the announcement coming up soon. So we just wanted to get that up now and give you an update. The project is probably in better shape than it's ever been. Over to Glenn.

Yes. Thanks, Tom. I would just add on Canada and North America more broadly, you probably witnessed that gas prices at the moment are around $2 to $2.30. That is a very attractive feedstock cost for us. When we do our technoeconomics, we sort of make assumptions around $3 to $4, and that yields out $1 a kilogram for hydrogen. So that continues to -- the lower gas prices continue to strengthen and if not put downward pressure on the cost of hydrogen supply for Hazer in particularly North America, probably below that $1 a kilogram, which is great. Fortis also very supportive of the project as a partner. They're committed to working through that next phase with us. And I will just mention here in terms of value that Tom referred to that 30,000 tonne per annum facility economically for Hazer, once that's operational for a client, that's in the order of $50 million to $60 million of license revenue for Hazer. So important projects and extremely valuable. So very exciting milestone for us there. In terms of the pipeline, this is a familiar slide, I know for many of you in terms of our go-to-market strategy, which continues to gain real momentum. That 30,000 tonne per annum design package was partly selected because we've got growing demand for larger scale opportunities, the bubbles or the blocs on this chart continue to get larger. We're seeing numbers in the order of 100,000 to 200,000 tonnes per annum for some potential facilities in Asia. So we can -- of course, at 30,000 tonnes we're able to multiply that into these large scales. We've got 7 live projects that we've announced. That's the diamonds. We're advancing other multiple opportunities globally at the moment. We don't -- we're not able to provide all the details. If you look at the chart on the left, you'll see some insights into what that opportunity pipeline looks like. In Australia, of course, Whyalla is live for us, and we're supporting M Resources bid for that in South Australia. That's a priority opportunity. Of course, publicly, the process owners and the government have come out and said that selection is now down to a very short list, and that decision is slated for sometime later this year. We're also seeing in Australia emerging iron and steel opportunities initiatives in Western Australia. That continues to underscore the role that Hazer can play in low emissions iron and steel. It's becoming a real sweet spot for us, not just internationally, but back here at home in Australia. I would also add to the list in Australia ammonia, which is becoming increasingly important as a feedstock for fertilizer, which is, I think, up 60% in terms of pricing more recently. So Australia is becoming a hotspot, if you like. I think policy is also becoming a bit of a tailwind as well as we sort of start to witness some of the challenges of supply chains more broadly. Casting that internationally, we're progressing discussions on a series of industries with a series of players. Again, just pointing out steel manufacturers, particularly in India and Japan that recognize, as Tom said, the integration potential, but also the cost benefit and the synergies that Hazer technology brings to steel as a plug-in solution. So they're very exciting. Ammonia globally is growing fertilizer price volatility, supply disruptions, all play into the hands of Hazer. I will just mention that KBR, again, is a global leader in ammonia, having a market share of over 50%. Their technology is used in over 260 ammonia facilities worldwide. That's a dominant position, and that's a strong channel for Hazer into this very important and large hydrogen market. Elsewhere, liquid fuels, sustainable aviation fuel, hydrogen is a critical input, cost and security of supply, graphite opportunities are progressing across multiple applications, including construction materials, thermal energy storage as well as low emissions steel. So pipeline is strong, continues to uptick in terms of demand. The energy crisis, if you like, for want of a better phrase, is sort of playing partly into our hands in this respect. So we're extremely excited and well positioned to capitalize on this shift. Tom, maybe just a few words then on graphite monetization, which I think was a big quarter for us and then the LOI, please.

Yes. No problem, Glenn. Thank you. All right. So our graphite monetization strategy is built on the concept that we primarily in the beginning, want to be able to enable our customers to move the graphite and actually move it at good value at good price points. So our strategy is deliberately phased where what we do is from the production from the CDP, we've taken that graphite and we, first of all, assessed it for the highest volume applications of where it could be used in the world. So we broadened the net past traditional graphite technology and looked at all carbon products and then also at all equivalent products from the same type of morphology and the same type of performance. And what we discovered in those large volume applications was it certainly did have a home, and it did have a home at multi-hundred thousand tonne per annum production, if required, over the world. So the high-volume drop-in ready, so straight out of the reactor unrefined product, we did find some homes for that in the quarter, and we announced that, which is pretty exciting. From that, what we do is go through a process of initial functionalization or very simple modification to the graphite to meet certain size specifications. And then we applied that to the more refined industries where that graphite would actually then displace a more sort of higher value, but maybe not quite as large a scale opportunity. And then in the future, we go to very detailed refined functionalization. As you can imagine, graphite that comes out of the ground doesn't go straight into a battery. It goes through an enormous process to get there. So we do this long-term process where we're working on improving those niche, but very, very high-value applications. And so that's the third stage of our graphite monetization and application development strategy. In the high-volume applications where we've been sort of working the most in the early days really to lock away price and also volume, we've actually had some very good results come back from Boral Labs in relation to graphite as a performance additive where it is demonstrating very good performance in bitumen and asphalt. It's improved the hardness, it's improved the durability of the product to the point where we're actually seeing it certified for Transport New South Wales as a performance additive for asphalt. Similarly, in concrete, if you add 2.5% to 5% of graphite as a performance additive in your concrete, you will see that you will have better curing times, better performance, higher resilience and also, it's meeting the standards for structural concrete in bridges, which is also a very significant worldwide use and a very, very large volume use of the product. So some good results early. You can see Boral Labs down there. We keep working with Mitsui, Green Steel WA, I'll talk about soon, POSCO, who are steelmaking and see the synergies there when we go into steel and also Chubu Electric. So in the highest volume applications, that's where we're seeing some very good results. As we go into growth, we talk more about how the integration with steel and the recarbonization of steel, you can use the carbon product in there. And again, that's a very large carbon sink for the product. So especially for an integrated steelmaker that's using the hydrogen for reduction, they've then got an additional co-product that they can put straight into their steel manufacturing. So more work to be done there. We're really working in that space and actually working with all of those steel suppliers to actually test our product and get good performance. As we go into growth, activated carbon is a really good example of a product where you do have some functionalization to do, and we're working with two of the world's largest water treatment companies there in Kemira and Veolia testing and having a look at our activated carbon equivalent product in our graphite. Thermal energy storage also is really worth talking about. And thermal energy storage is a growing sort of new area where compressed graphite blocks are used to store heat during periods when you don't have the heat available or the energy available, for example, for solar. So thermal energy storage is a growing new opportunity, but it doesn't require the same level of like really detailed processing that you would require for electrodes and things like that. So it looks like a great opportunity for us, and it sits within our growth window. And then finally, in our battery window, defense, critical minerals applications, isostatic graphite. These things are extremely high purity, high grade with a very, very specific morphology as well. So lots of work to do in that space to functionalize and then to actually modify our graphite and check its performance for the high-value opportunities. One more to mention, I think, and Glenn has already said it in EVs, is in battery applications, we do see that there is still a position for our graphite. Batteries have many components to them, including the electrodes, but also in the fillers and conductive graphite is actually a highly valuable product in that space. All right. If we can move on to the next slide. And just as a price marker. So it's very good for us to have done this so early, and it's actually a major, very important early price discovery for us with the LOI with Green Steel of WA. We announced recently Green Steel and WA are a local collie-based steel manufacturer. They are developing a project there, which will actually be an EAF electric arc furnace recycling of scrap steel, and they're linked to the West Australian economy in so many different ways, including the decommissioning of old rigs, which is one of the feedstocks for them for the EAF. 85,000 tonnes of graphite is the [indiscernible] volume that they're looking at over the 10-year period, which is really quite significant. And it just does indicate that even a new project of this size, which is doing steel recycling and not the major steel development such as M Resources still see the value in actually bringing in a cleaner carbon product than importing anthracite coal from wherever it happens to come from in the world. So it does give us another really good indicator of not only the value proposition of the graphite, but also its technical application in steelmaking as well. Glenn?

No, that's excellent. I love those 2 slides, Tom. And just to put that into value. I'm not sure the market necessarily appreciated this, but at $400 a tonne, which is sort of the agreed. Well, it's the market price for anthracite today, which is the price under the contract, 85,000 tonnes over 10 years. That's a $30-odd million contract value. So that gives you some value marker for potentially what Hazer graphite is valued at. I was talking yesterday with one of the graphite miners about pricing of recarburizer, and this is definitely at the bottom end of the range. They're seeing pricing up to $700, $800 a tonne for graphite in that particular application. So I think there's more upside to come there. If we just turn then to our corporate update, which I think is the last couple of slides before we open the call up. I attended CERAWeek at the back end of March. It's always an important week. It's a pulse check on the industry. It's often referred to as the Super Bowl of energy. Definitely a different tone this year with everything that's going on in the Middle East. But it's really an important opportunity for us to engage in dialogue with global energy leaders, in particular, for Hazer, the opportunity to reconnect with our project partners, meet and engage with prospective new clients and partners and also spend time with KBR. It's their headquarters in Houston. So a really productive couple of days. Unsurprisingly, as you can see, the conflict in the Middle East was dominating a lot of the discussion, but I did feel like a lot of the energy firms wanted to look through all that and just see beyond what the current situation is. But energy security, critical minerals were absolutely the top of the agenda. Gas, natural gas is being reframed as an essential component of the future of the energy system, and that's critically important for Hazer, of course, when it's paired with low emissions technologies is like ours, we're decarbonizing gas. So I came out of CERAWeek and looking at the opportunity set and thinking, well, methane prolysis is evolving. It's absolutely no longer a technology concept. It's becoming strategically relevant because it plugs into existing supply chains. Major energy players are now actively exploring and entering this space. So I think we're ahead of the game and leading the pack on that front. That's reflective of a lot of the dialogue we're having. Decarbonization hasn't gone away. The focus has sharpened to low-cost, pragmatic practical solutions that plug in to existing value chains and infrastructure. And that's where we fit really nicely into that overall heavy industry decarbonization strategy. Critical minerals, of course, is a hot topic for all the reasons that we outlined earlier. Near-term market opportunities in data centers, of course, they're getting a lot of attention, liquid fuels, SAF, I've mentioned, seem to be sort of new markets that are developing. And of course, behind the grid solutions for data centers is going to be absolutely critical to solve. So again, positions us quite nicely. In terms of KBR, very aligned, came through -- hopefully, that came through in last week's announcement around the PDP. We're having in-depth strategic discussions on a range of topics, including projects, opportunities, priorities, graphite, of course, and I'll generally come away from CERAWeek, we're doing the right things. We're targeting the right markets. We're solving the right problems with the right partners. And I think that puts us in a very important place in terms of energy integration. Moving then to our final slide, which is what we've all got to look forward to over the next 12 months. Look, it is really an exciting phase for Hazer. It's defined by execution and value creation, which is a lot of what Tom spoke to in some of that really underlying engineering and technical work that's being done at the moment. The commercial momentum is building. Our focus is really clear. It's converting that pipeline that we see continue to grow into tangible value, advancing those projects, progressing Canada, other opportunities to provide the market with that visibility and project value, as I've explained in terms of that 30,000 tonnes per annum. It's a $50 million, $60 million value proposition for Hazer for every plant. Whyalla, of course, is a standout opportunity. It's somewhat of a wildcard, but it's down to a short list, and that could drop for us, and that's got the potential to transform the company. Graphite monetization, I hope you can see that the strategy is evolving. We're never finished, of course, with graphite. It's an evolving market. It's coming together, qualification, LOIs. There's more discussions. So look out for near-term updates on that front. And then, of course, beyond all this, we've got strategic upside through new partnerships, potential investors and expansion into, of course, new markets. Looking ahead, look, it's my view that Hazer has got that potential to be that multibillion-dollar platform. That's what we're driving for. We see the underlying value. It's grounded in scale. It's grounded in the opportunity set that we're trying to address. And importantly, it's not about a single project. It's about building a scalable licensing platform where each project adds incremental value and revenue to the company. So we're all pumped here, of course. The company is strongly positioned. We've got a derisked tech. We've got tailwinds of the government and the market that I think are strengthening. We've got that deep pipeline and the deal flow is coming, that high-quality partnership and relationships worldwide and that all-important robust funding position. So Simon, I think that's a really good place to pause and open up the call and address some of the Q&A.

Yes. Thanks, Greg, and thanks, Tom, for the update. [Operator Instructions] We did have a couple come through on e-mail yesterday, so I'll start with those. One from Haley. Do you expect any further need to raise capital? And if so, are you at a point where any further capital requirements can be met through debt funding instead of equity funding?

Yes. Good question. I think hopefully, Haley, you saw on the early slides that we're in a very robust position at the moment, $15.5 million of what I call liquidity. What I didn't mention there is -- well, I think I did mention around the cash burn, it's down under $2 million in a quarter. So I think in terms of funding runway, that's pretty close to 7 quarters of funding, which is getting close to 18 months to 2 years. So that sort of gives you an indication of sort of the runway. That doesn't include more grant funds that we expect to come through that are already effectively awarded to us. So there's various milestones. That doesn't include any of the KBR contribution to the work program, which is up to $5 million that's being worked on at the moment. So there's more upside there. That doesn't include any of the revenue that we forecast from Canada, which is starting to trickle through from the U.K., which is starting to trickle through and from future projects. So we see expansion of the revenue model there, and it doesn't include any new grants. So if you look at all that, I think we're robustly funded today on the base business, but there's certainly upside through grants through another R&D rebate, which typically comes through in the third quarter or the fourth quarter of the calendar year. And last year, that was in the order of $3 million or $4 million. So a lot of inflows ahead. We're keeping a tight lid on the cost, of course, given the volatility in the market, but we brought those costs down. So I think we're in a pretty robust position at the moment.

Next, there's a couple here from Dave Lewis came through last night. Maybe this first one for you, Tom. How is the reactor scale-up progressing with PSRI?

Great. I wish Tim Forbes, our CTO, was on the call to really talk about PSRI because he's actually on the Advisory Board of PSRI. This company is Particulate Solid Research Institute. They're based in Chicago, and the world's best energy companies are all members of this institute. Yes, Tim is one of the preeminent fluid solids people in the world, and he really is quite a fantastic person to have in our team. So PSRI are working on all of our scale-up strategies where we're not building a hot furnace. So what they do is all of the other work that's not the super hot 900 degrees, 8 bar pressurized pyrolysis unit. So you have to be able to make sure it's going to flow, that the solids are going to fluidize that you're going to be able to separate cyclones are going to work, all these other components. So we engage PSRI to give us all that fundamental detail. We sent them over, I think they must have 300 kilos, maybe more of our graphite at the moment, and they have that in there. They've got per spec versions of all of these fluidized bed reactors. So they drop it in, they do all of the sampling on it. They make sure they know exactly what that component is. And then they fluidize it, they flow it mostly with nitrogen or with other inert gases, and they look at the behavior of how it performs. Does it flow smoothly? Is it something that's more like a flower or more like marbles as far as the type of constitution of the particles itself. And they give us all that information that helps us then do the math to do the proper design because when you're doing a 900-degree heated unit, you can't see inside it, you don't know what it's doing. You can only infer by the behavior. So yes, PSRI are very core to the work that we're doing in scaling up. And they're a tried and true method of scaling up. So a lot of companies in the world when they're developing new fluid sold systems, we will go to PSRI, get all of the fundamental math sorted out and then make sure they can do that experimental modeling before they go and build in steel. So yes, they're going great they're fantastic. We're doing some pretty large-scale cold flow testing with them at the moment, if that's what Dave wants to hear.

Yes. There's a couple more from Dave, so I'll just flick through those quickly. Will you need a fully scaled reactor design in order for the M Resources Whyalla bid to proceed?

I can take that one from the design side, yes, we're designing a 30,000 tonne per annum reactor. Now we can't really talk about the scale that's required for M Resources. There's a lot of probity around that particular project. But as I said previously, the 30,000 tonnes is quite a sweet spot for large-scale hydrogen industrial production. And we have obviously got one of the key criteria in designing that size is that it's scalable. And with the likes of PSRI, we are checking the scalability. No concerns going up from there at the moment.

Yes.

Okay. But in terms of all this -- sorry, just to answer that question, I suppose, the answer is like to get the bid, do you need a fully scaled reactor design in order for that? Or do you know to me?

No. Look, the short answer is no. I mean I think at this stage, it's much more macro than that in terms of the economics of it. Look, it's a bid that's led by M Resources. We're strengthening that bid with a low-cost hydrogen input into DRI, which is the strategy. And with that, I think the confidence in the technology is there, KBR is right behind us in terms of our ability to deliver that project, and we can't be clear on scale at this stage due to probity. But I think it's a very strong bid. We've seen the economics. It's well regarded. That's public and then the list is down to a very short list and there's a decision this year. So that's as much as we can say on that. But it's a potentially transformational project for Hazer. It's in our backyard in terms of Australia. It's a strategic asset and a strategic city for not just South Australia, but also Australia. So I think the bid that's been put together there is going to be extremely competitive. Simon, I was just looking down some of these questions. There's a ton of questions in here that are excellent. And if you're okay, given timing, I might just sort of rattle down some of them and sort of try and address them as we go along. Andrew has asked some excellent questions on the design package and paid studies. I think, Andrew, the answer is yes. As this technology is now at a mature stage, we're able to offer that design package to prospective clients. And of course, that comes with a paid study. And that's the ultimate process. Of course, there's a revenue associated with that, and that's what the model is based. We're a licensing model. We're not a capital-heavy model. We're a capital-light model. And all of our customers and clients will ultimately license our technology through us and KBR and, of course, build, own and operate that on their own, and we will receive license revenues in return for that. You've got -- you've asked a bonus question here on BC and Suncor. I'll just wind the clock back for 3 years. Suncor came out of this project due to strategic reasons about 3 years ago to focus on oil and gas. And this project is now owned 100% by Fortis. So it's a simplified structure there, which I think makes moving ahead much more straightforward. So just look out for more updates, as Tom said, on that front. Capital costs, we can't be too definitive on in terms of Oliver, in terms of the plant yet. There's a range for sure. It's in line with our economic assessment is what I would like to say. And I know the team is working very hard on how do we bring that down. First cut, of course, is always a certain number, and there's always room for optimization. But what we have seen already is in line, if not better than what we have assumed in our economic and technoeconomic assessment. So we're very confident at this stage. It's not -- Tom, it's not overly complex kit, right? I mean it is simple stuff. So we're kind of within the range of what we think the industry is expecting. So I think that helps answer that front. Mohammad, you've asked some really good questions around North America and potentially Africa here in terms of go-to-market. Africa is quite a different market and aspects of Africa, and I would say the Middle East are very attractive in the long run, of course. But the go-to-market, it's worth reminding people that we now got a sales force through our strategic alliance with KBR, Tom over 80 people.

Yes, [indiscernible] the line.

Yes. So we've gone from a firm of 15 that are developing a technology in Hazer here in Little Perth to having a global sales force that is out there talking to customers and clients through the ammonia channel, through the methanol channel through the other channels that they've got in 80 locations worldwide. So we've just expanded our sales force by an order of magnitude. So if Africa comes to the top of the list, then fantastic. And we'll just see how that plays out over time. I think there's a question here on data centers from Oliver. I did mention data centers. It may not be immediately obvious how our role can be played in data centers, but data centers are going to be an enormous sync for power. And the grid will not be able to sustain that power. And so when data centers are built, they will need independent power behind the grid, and that is where Hazer has a role to play, of course, providing hydrogen into green power or clean power for data centers and other opportunities. So it's an emerging area that we're aware of. We've had some inbounds in this area and in particular, in North America, and it's an area that we're continuing to explore where we see a major opportunity, frankly. And gas is obviously down as the main fuel for gas to power. But to complement that with Hazer technology, I think, is a major win for the power and the energy that's required for data centers. Simon, Tom, is there anything else that you see jump out there? I think we talked cash...

Yes, I can -- I guess there's a fair few questions on becoming revenue neutral, I suppose, and that sort of thing. Like what -- how many license agreements or do you know what I mean? Like cash flow positive.

We're edging closer. I mean look, we're pre-revenue today, largely pre-revenue. We're starting to see revenue now coming through in Canada and the U.K. I'd expect that to expand as we continue to, as Tom said, secure those paid studies, and that's normal at this stage. We've made assumptions that every paid study is about $1 million. That's roughly what it is in terms of revenue. Our cost base is low. I think that's obvious from our cash burn. So you can see very quickly as a licensee or sorry, a licensor of the technology, that we are not that far away from being able to self-fund. Of course, we're still pre-revenue, but we're edging closer. A lot of the capital has been spent developing 5 scale-ups or if not more, when you add on the Canada pilot and some other things that we're doing. This business is getting much closer now to being self-funding than it ever has. So we're in a good place. We've got to continue to secure those studies and move all of these projects forward. But that's the excitement of having this PDP so we can get it in front of clients and customers and start to sign them up. And that's oversimplification of our strategy, but that's kind of the direction. Lots of questions about Whyalla -- David, you've got another one, hopefully. I can -- what I can say is, look, I think you should anticipate a decision this year. That's what's out in the public domain and look out for that in the due course.

All right, just -- there was one other one that came through on e-mail from Dave Lewis. How the recent asphalt qualification advanced your project with Chubu in Japan?

Tom, would you like to pick that one up?

Yes, sure. Absolutely, the results are giving us a lot of confidence. We are in the process right now of international qualification. So we've actually just gone and confirmed our international standards. So we're doing international qualification. Two key jurisdictions. Obviously, the obvious ones would be first. And yes, this will help us a lot in confirming the Chubu project. But at this stage, it's all still in discussions. We can't say too much about that. But the international qualification, asphalt is probably quite transportable globally. You can always make it near where your Hazer unit is, which is fantastic. So I think that this will be a bit of a game changer for the projects that really want to push forward and develop large-scale solution for graphite. It's all voice of customer. The reasons why we are focused on these things like hydrogen application, even data center and also asphalt concrete, steelmaking and then going on further is because this is what we're hearing we need to help solve. It's good to have a product to go, hey, you guys can use this for whatever you want, but it's actually now taking all of the feedback that we're getting and actually working those solutions ourselves so that we can clearly show the value proposition to someone who doesn't have to go and do all the hard work themselves.

Yes. Yes, it's nice. So I'm conscious of time. There's a couple of questions here from Andrew Wilkinson, which I think are worth addressing. Have any potential customers decided not to proceed. Look, it's never all roses, right? I mean I think what's fair to say is that we've constantly talked about at the corporate level here and with the Board, what is the biggest risk for our company. It's not about technology risk anymore. It's about -- it's the risk of just pace. We -- for the most part, we are dealing with very large corporations, and they don't necessarily have the same level of momentum that we like to have, respectfully. So what we try to do is we try to -- we've obviously got a diversified portfolio. We've got multiple discussions. We've got big projects that are emerging. I apologize if things don't necessarily go at the pace that we'd all like, we're as impatient as you are. But we are dealing with large corporations that have their own processes and that is partly, in some respects, our largest risk, having KBR there, there's constant dialogue meeting these partners, having that design package, I think, helps accelerate a lot of these discussions. So we're in a good place. We're never comfortable with pace because we're a small cap and we're entrepreneurial and we want to move forward. So we've got -- how we mitigate that risk is multiple discussions, multiple portfolio discussions. And look, I think ultimately, many of these are going to drop over time. So everybody's got their strategic priorities, and that's how we try to mitigate. But we haven't really had anyone drop off. We have a lot of inbounds that come in. And now we're actively out there target marketing, which I think is a big part of our marketing strategy, which we haven't done, I guess, over the last 2 or 3 years. So Simon, I think that's probably a good place to start. I just sort of scanned all this, and we've got some similar questions, which I hope we've addressed. If we haven't, then we will endeavor to get back to people directly via e-mail. But I will just finish by saying thank you for joining today. Hopefully, you can see the great progress that we're making with the design package with the alliance with -- it's 12 months literally, almost to the date that we signed up with KBR and I think it's -- we've been through the storming, norming phase of developing an alliance. I think we're now in that performing stage. I think it's fair to say, Tom. You're spending a week with some of their senior management. We have great dialogue going at the corporate level, and we're very excited about the next phase. So please stay tuned. There's going to be a lot happening over the next 12 months, and we're very excited about the next phase. I'd like to think stars are aligning, techs good, it's great, actually. The pipeline is building. The graphite is getting momentum. The tailwinds of policy and government and energy is, I think, turning to strengthen. And we've got that robust funding position. So a long runway through some substantial rerating milestones for us. So thanks for everyone for joining today, and we'll continue to keep you updated. Thanks, Tom and Simon. Thank you.