HealthCare Global Enterprises Limited ($HCG)

Ladies and gentlemen good day and welcome to the HealthCare Global Enterprises Limited Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anoop Poojari from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on Healthcare Global Enterprises Q4 and FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us Dr. Manish Mattoo, Executive Director and CEO of the company; and Mr. Ravi Gothwal, Head of Investor Relations. We would like to begin the call with opening remarks from Manish, following which we'll have the forum open for an interactive question-and-answer session. Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the earnings presentation shared with you earlier. I would now like to invite Manish to make his opening remarks.

Thank you, Anoop. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I hope you've had the opportunity to review the results presentation for the fourth quarter and full year ended March 2026. FY '26 has been an important year for HCG. It was a year in which we strengthened the core of our oncology platform, sharpened our strategic focus, improved the resilience of our operating model and took several steps to position the company for its next phase of profitable growth. Particularly, a couple of things that I would like to share. FY '26 was a year of profitable broad-based growth. Quality of growth improved, supported by higher volumes, better realization discipline and ongoing payer mix optimization. We sharpened our focus on oncology, strengthened the balance sheet and are deploying capital into higher return markets. FY '27 growth levers are also visible through our planned initiatives. Before we get into the update on the financial performance, I would like to take a minute and highlight a few milestones achieved during this quarter and FY '26. First, we commenced operations at our North Bangalore facility. This is a strategically important addition in one of HCG's core markets and strengthens our presence in the rapidly growing northern corridor of Bangalore. The facility has been designed as a comprehensive oncology center with capabilities across medical, surgical and radiation oncology, nuclear medicine, PET/CT imaging and BMT. It also brings MR-linac technology to the Bangalore market, creating a clear clinical and technology-led differentiation for HCG. Second, HCG's clinical differentiation continues to be reflected in the complexity and uniqueness of cases managed across its network. During the year, our teams delivered several highly specialized interventions, underscoring the depth of our multidisciplinary capabilities and our innovation-led approach to oncology care. These included a rare robotic-assisted endoscopic urological procedure, which was subsequently published in an international journal, the management of complex dual primary malignancies. Including a case involving base of tongue cancer followed by aggressive metastatic prostatic cancer, where discordance between pathology markers and clinical findings made the diagnosis particularly challenging and an ultra-personalized immunoadiation strategy with -- for a centinarian patient with advanced cancer in which the team combined immunotherapy with Pulsar radiotherapy and achieved meaningful tumor regression despite the patient's age and clinical complexity. In addition, advanced approaches such as cytoreductive surgery with HPC continue to be deployed across the network for complex ovarian cancer cases. further reinforcing HCG's ability to manage highly specialized oncology interventions through coordinated multidisciplinary care. These examples are not isolated successes. They reflect the culture of clinical excellence and scientific thinking embedded within HCG. Increasingly, our ability to combine specialized expertise, tumor board-led care, advanced technology and personalized treatment approaches are helping us manage high equity, high complexity cases that strengthen both patient outcomes and HCG's position as a differentiated oncology platform. Third, we have further strengthened the management team. I'm pleased to welcome Sanjeev Kumar Saxena as Chief Financial Officer; and Ravi Gothwal as Head of Investor Relations. Both bring with them relevant experience in health care services and will add depth to our finance, capital allocation and stakeholder engagement capabilities. Ravi is present with us on the call today, and Sanjeev will be joining the team shortly at the end of this month. With these appointments and with the regional and other corporate leadership additions, which we made throughout the year, we now have a stronger execution engine to support the next phase of growth. Fourth, we successfully completed the rights issue of INR 425 crores. The strong response from shareholders reflects our continued confidence in HCG's strategy and long-term opportunity, I would like to thank all our shareholders for their support. The capital raised has strengthened our financial foundation and gives us greater flexibility to invest behind our long-term priorities, including capacity expansion, clinical infrastructure upgrades, technology investments and selective growth opportunities while continuing to maintain a disciplined returns-focused approach. This also positions us well for any organic -- inorganic expansion in the future. Finally, we have taken a strategic decision to sharpen our focus on oncology. In line with this, the Board has approved the sale of Milann, our fertility business to Inviga Healthcare Fund. The transaction was signed yesterday and is expected to close within Q1 of FY '27. The transaction values Milann at an enterprise valuation of INR 63 crores. The equity consideration for 100% of the business, including certain transition services support is INR 37.6 crores, of which 75% will be received upfront at closing and the balance 25% over 18 months. We believe this is consistent with our stated strategy of focusing management bandwidth and capital on HCG's core oncology platform. I'll be happy to address any questions on this transaction during our Q&A session. Beside clinical capability, we are also strengthening the digital of the business. Our objective is to improve the quality of patient acquisition, strengthen conversion, enhance patient experience and reduce dependence on external channels over time. Digital is increasingly becoming an important enabler for HCG, particularly in urban and semi-urban catchments where patients and families actively seek credible clinical information before deciding where to initiate treatment. By strengthening owned channels, improving campaign efficiency and building a more seamless patient journey, we are working to convert the trust created by our clinical brand into high-quality volumes across the network. Turning now to our financial performance. For Q4 FY '26, HCG delivered revenues of INR 652 crores, reflecting 11.3% year-on-year growth. For the full year FY '26, revenues stood at INR 2,545 crores, representing 15% year-on-year growth. Excluding the fertility business, full year revenues grew 15%, supported by 12% growth in volumes and a 3% improvement in average revenue per patient. This growth reflects the strength of our distributed oncology network. We saw healthy patient inflows across regions, better utilization in several centers and continued progression of hospitals into higher revenue cohorts. Importantly, the growth has been broad-based rather than dependent on a single center or cluster, which reinforces the scalability and resilience of the platform. The South cluster contributed approximately 39% of FY '26 revenues and grew about 13% for full year. Growth was supported by continued momentum across Tier 2 centers and steady performance in key markets. Q4 growth was moderated by softer medical value travel and intentional tearing down of low-margin business. However, the cluster remains well positioned in terms of North Bangalore, planned bed additions at the Bangalore COE and planned initiatives to improve medical value tourism. The West cluster remained our largest revenue contributor, accounting for approximately 45% of FY '26 revenues and grew at about 14% for the full year. Performance was led by strong patient inflows across Gujarat and Maharashtra, capacity expansion in Ahmedabad, clinician additions and focused commercial initiatives. The East cluster contributed approximately 11% of FY '26 revenues and grew at about 11% for the full year. Cuttack and Ranchi continue to perform well, while Kolkata is expected to benefit from ongoing clinician onboarding. The cluster offers meaningful growth potential as utilization improves, clinical team in Kolkata ramps up and the planned Cuttack expansion progresses over time. Our international business in Kenya, while still a smaller part of the portfolio, delivered strong growth over the year. Revenue grew 39% year-on-year and 71% for the full financial year '26, supported by ramp-up in radiation oncology, PET services and stronger patient inflows. From a profitability perspective, FY '26 reflects the benefits of scale, maturing centers and improving network productivity, adjusted EBITDA for Q4 FY '26 stood at INR 125 crores, up 17% year-on-year with margins expanding by 90 bps to 19.2%. For the full year, adjusted EBITDA stood at INR 471.1 crores, also up 19% year-on-year with margins improving by 70 bps to 18.5%. This margin improvement driven by operating leverage, better utilization, throughput optimization and disciplined cost management. Our pretax ROCE improved to 14%, supported by higher utilization, center maturity and disciplined capital allocation. We continue to believe that as more centers move into higher revenue buckets and incremental growth is generated from existing infrastructure, SCG has a clear pathway to improving both margins and return over time. On the balance sheet, the rights issue and sustained cash generation have strengthened our financial position. FY '26 operating cash flow conversion remained healthy at 75% and net debt reduced meaningfully to 1.4x during the year. This gives us the ability to pursue growth with greater flexibility while remaining prudent on leverage and capital allocation. Looking ahead, our priorities remain clear. We will continue to optimize the existing network by improving utilization, strengthening referral ecosystems, enhancing patient throughput and deepening high complexity clinical programs. On the expansion front, our near-term emphasis is on brownfield opportunities in high potential centers where incremental capital can be deployed with faster ramp-up and better returns. Selective greenfield additions will be pursued where the market opportunity, clinical need and strategic fit are compelling. The launch of North Bangalore and Whitefield the planned Cuttack expansion and other identified brownfield additions across the network are all consistent with this approach. With that, I will conclude my opening remarks and request the moderator to open the floor for questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Will take the first question from the line of Himanshu Binani from Anand Rathi.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers. So my first question was regarding the revenue growth. So given Q4 is typically a seasonally strong quarter for the business, how one should actually interpret the 11% revenue growth reported during this quarter?

Thanks, Himanshu, for the question. You're right, Q4 is typically a strong quarter -- a stronger quarter than other quarters. But you have to see it in 2 aspects. One is for the year, the revenue growth has been 15% as per our estimates. And in Q4, there were 2 factors. One was there was a conscious paring down of low-margin business. I think we've been stating it for a couple of months now, and we have taken measures to bring down the low-margin business, which has impacted the revenue growth. There was also a factor of the Middle East conflict impacting the medical value travel to our ware, which additionally impacted the revenue growth. However, both these factors are being worked upon. Vinayak Nayak, who has joined our International as Head of International Sales, and the rest of the team are working aggressively to bring back the international business to the earlier estimates. And also this transition from low margin to high margin will be actually normalized over the next couple of months. And in the medium term, our estimate remains close to the 15% growth projections that we had given earlier.

We will take the next question from the line of Abdulkader Puranwala.

Sir, my first question is with regards to the shipping of the Whitefield project. Can you help us understand what exactly we meant about an alternate location? And subsequent to that, when we're talking about adding 200 beds at the Site locations, can you help us quantify exactly how much beds are we adding across each of these cities?

Yes. Thanks, Abdul. So to your first question, the Whitefield existing infra that we have is slightly smaller as per our specs. Whitefield is a much bigger market, and we feel there is going to be enormous in that market, and we want to be prepared for that from an infrastructure perspective. Hence, we are looking at an asset which will provide us at least 120, 130 beds. And that's why there is this alternate location that we are seeking to realize the potential of that large market. That's one. As far as brownfield expansions are concerned, so I'll give you a center-wise breakup. In Cuttack, we are adding 75 beds. In Ranchi, we are adding 30 beds. In Vizag, we are adding 50 beds. And in Bhavnagar, we are adding about 20 beds. So that put together should be close to about 200 beds over the next brownfield.

Understood, sir. And sir, in terms of the fund raise and now we are also divesting Milann center. So I mean, going ahead, how should we look at the debt part of the business? I mean, is there any target internally in terms of net debt to EBITDA or net debt to equity that we are immediately targeting for the next 1 or 2 years, considering we are also planning to add some beds here?

So the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio has come down favorably Earlier, it was 2.3. It's come down to 1.4 as of today. And this gives us enough headroom to invest in capacity addition, expansion, brownfield technology additions and all. And we will continue to be mindful of that ceiling. Internally, we've kept it at 2.5. And I think in the medium to long term, that's where it will be.

Got it. And just last one, if I may. So among the 4 regions where we're operating, just directionally, if you could help us understand that where is the scope you see for further margin expansion in terms of the delta which can be brought into for the next 2 to 3 years?

I think we have identified opportunities for margin expansion across clusters, across the clusters. But largely, I think it will come from West and East most because South is a mature cluster with margins already 25% plus. But we will -- we see opportunities for margin expansion all across.

Okay. Okay. And sir, just one more follow-up from my end. Sir, when we talk about a 15% kind of growth expected for next year and subsequent to that. And if I look at your current occupancy at the Southern cluster, that's already slightly higher. So would it be fair to assume that ahead, we would have -- after Bangalore gets added, we will still have some headroom for new bed addition into this one?

So the growth will happen through multiple levers, not just occupancy enhancement. We have identified multiple levers for growth. One is, of course, North Bangalore is going to be a big driver for -- there will be white field. There is brownfield expansion that I already alluded to, plus there is work happening on clinical talent addition. In Q4 alone, we have added about 23 oncologists to our network, and we'll see the growth coming from that addition in the subsequent quarters. There is also work happening on sales acceleration. We are doubling our daycare centers. Currently, we have 5. We are adding about 8 to 10 day care centers over the next 12 months across multiple markets. There is also work happening on ORC outreach. Then, of course, on the cost side, there is opportunity on procurement, on leases that we are exploring. So I think collectively, there are many levers that are at play here, which will help us expand margin meaningfully over the next year.

We take the next question from the line of Himanshu Binani from Anand Rathi.

So sir, on the cluster, so we have seen that the Western cluster has reported the highest revenue, while the utilization has been like around 50% versus the consolidated 58% sort of utilization. So just wanted to understand the utilization as in what exactly the utilization you're talking about is the occupancy or just the overall hospital equipment included?

Center utilization is a slightly different metric from occupancy Himanshu, and it factors in other metrics also like the chemo beds utilization, the OT utilization. So it's overall, I would say, a blended metric capturing the potential going forward. And you're right, in Ahmedabad, for example, at 50% center utilization, there is headroom for growth in a very rapidly expanding and very important market for us.

Okay. Okay. And sir, lastly from my side, if I actually look into Slide #18 on the ramp-up of the new facilities moving up the value chain, both in terms of revenue and margins in FY '26. So can you please elaborate which of the centers have actually moved from the low bucket to the upper bucket -- and which ones as per the management have the highest possibility of moving up the value chain going forward?

Himanshu, as we had stated earlier also, we are for now refraining from giving center-wise details and all. And that's -- I would appreciate if you can speak to that. Suffice to say that both the buckets are growing as per our estimates and will continue to grow further.

We will take the next question from the line of Nitish Rege from ChrysCapital.

Yes. So you mentioned that you are going to do selective greenfield expansion. Any update on the greenfield expansion pipeline other than the 2 Bangalore facility? Any geographies we are particularly focused on for this expansion?

Nitish, there are at least 10 to 12 cities that we are evaluating options in. And depending on market potential location availability, talent pipeline availability, we will be finalizing a few locations ever so often. But as of now, there are several examples I can give you between Pune, Surat, Coimbatore, Nellore, Lucknow, Jalandhar, there are several options that we are evaluating to finalize our greenfield options.

Okay. And in terms of inorganic growth, are we in talks in advanced talks with any target companies? Any update on that?

There are, I mean, options being evaluated currently also, but there are no major updates to be shared with the community right now.

Okay. Okay. And just how do you see the margin trajectory evolving? Do you believe the company can do another 100 basis points improvement in EBITDA margin, let's say, in FY '27? And what's your outlook on the shift in the payer mix? Where do you think by what time will this optimize for us?

So this last couple of quarters, we've seen the payer mix move up favorably by 100 basis points. And the margin expansion also, if you just take Q4 has expanded by about 90 basis points versus last Q4. And with the measures that we have taken and that we will continue to take both on the quality of revenue side on -- and other things that I mentioned earlier and on the cost side, this margin expansion projection is achievable, and we have demonstrated that over the last 2 quarters. So, I'm quite confident of delivering on that estimate that we had shared earlier.

We will take the next question from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital.

Manish, you've been in the running -- so from your perspective since the time you've taken over the business, if you can sort of just let us know in terms of the way the business was being run prior to the promoter change over the management change. I mean where are a big opportunity that you see from a discount perspective where we can create maximum amount of value for the business? And which are the -- and where are the primary low-hanging fruits on this account that you would like to pursue as we go forward?

Thanks for your question. See, I think -- I mean, I don't want to comment on what was the earlier priority and all, but definitely, growth was there. But today, as we look at growth, we are focused on profitable growth. There is focus on revenue growth, but we want it to come in a holistic way. So the focus is on margin expansion, improving returns, improving quality of earnings and stronger cash generation, which we clearly have seen in Q4 and very confident that the trend will continue. And the levers that I mentioned earlier also about holistically looking at improving the quality of revenue that we do, improving the clinical talent addition, focusing on clinical differentiation. I think that's our biggest moat, and that we will continue to build across the markets. We want to use our geographic expansion to our ability -- to our advantage, being present in 18 cities, 25 hospitals, that's a huge network, and we want to leverage on it. Coupled with that, the new expansion that I mentioned, North Bangalore, expansion in the other territories that I mentioned, addition of clinical talent, sales acceleration, expansions through day care centers, outreach center outreach. I think there are several levers that we are working on today. As I said, focus being not just on growth, but being on profitable growth, being on improving returns and stronger cash generation. And that will -- has come through in this quarter also, if I look upon it or the whole financial year by better center utilization, by improving clinical productivity by focusing on costs -- so I think coupled with these factors, I would say the priority is on holistic profitable growth going forward.

And Manish, on the point that you mentioned about the priority being more profitable -- profitability focus driven growth rather than just chasing growth from a top line perspective. But does that put us at a disadvantage versus some of our larger peers, multi-multi-specialty hospitals who've got the ability to invest more aggressively behind oncology, and that seems to be honestly the trend across all the listed hospital chains where oncology investments are a key priority from an investment perspective across most of those [guys].

Yes I think we are very confident of our clinical differentiation and the moat that we have created over 35 years. We are leaders in most of the markets that we operate in. And while there will be competition, but I think we have enough created enough legacy outcomes and brand recall in the market to sustain that growth. Secondly, there is an inherent demand that is being generated in the market quite rapidly because of higher incidence of cancer. So, I would say we will continue to grow quite well in the next couple of years, given the fact that we have such a strong legacy and future and the levers that I mentioned before. So, I don't think that's going to be a challenge.

Right. And last one on the growth part of it. I mean the mid-15%, 20% growth that we've talked about, I believe that's a growth guidance for the near term. I mean do you see this essentially getting step -- I mean what can lead to a step-up in this number on a going forward basis? Or this is a trend that we -- a trajectory that we look to follow going forward also?

Sorry, could you repeat your question, the last one?

I'm about -- I just 15%, 20% growth that we've guided to, given our revenue base, is there a possibility that it can get meaningfully stepped up from here? And what can we drive up if assuming that kind of inflection can come in our growth from?

I think -- as I think as we deepen our presence in different markets, there is potential for a higher growth or inorganic expansion through that route, I mean, we can ramp up the growth further. But that's what I would say to your question.

We will take the next question from the line of Santosh from [ Fund Veda ].

Congratulations on the good set of numbers that you have delivered, and I see clear efficiencies that you are building in the hospital. My question is regarding the interest cost. So, we have been hovering around INR 40 crores of interest cost each quarter. So, with the rights issue funds and remaining funds, do we expect that interest cost will reduce in the upcoming quarters?

So, thanks for the question. You're right. Our average interest cost today is about 8%. But after the rights issue and we repaid some long-term debt, we do expect some improvement -- some reduction in the interest cost.

We will take the next question from the line of Shashank Goel from Nomura Capital.

Sir, my question is what sort of occupancy various hospitals in our system operating at?

So, for your benefit, if you -- in your investor presentation, Slide 17, we have guided to a center potential of utilization of 58% on the growth potential. I mean that's the metric we are tracking now against occupancy because we feel this is actually a blended metric that combines our utilization across modalities, and this gives a better picture of how you should view our utilization rate overall. So, we are at 58% of our growth potential.

Okay. And my next question is like can we continue to deliver our same-store growth for the next 2, 3 years on the new hospitals that are already there or really start running into the constraints of capacity?

So, I think for the next couple of years, our existing hospitals with expansion within them will deliver at least 75% to 80% of our growth, and the rest will come from newer centers.

We will take the next question from the line of Devang Patel from Sameeksha Capital.

My first question was on growth in revenue per patient. You mentioned earlier that you are reducing lower-margin business. So why is that not reflecting in a better growth on realizations? And secondly, in the West also, the trend across quarters is there's a tapering down of growth. If you can talk about on these.

As I stated earlier, growth is not our only objective. Growth has to be accompanied by margin expansion, returns, better returns, improving quality of earnings and stronger cash generation, which we have demonstrated can come even at a lower revenue. So, we have to consciously -- we have taken those calls consciously, which may have a short-term impact on revenue, but will have a long-term beneficial effect on all the other metrics that I mentioned. And that's how -- it's an intentional strategy in that direction, and that's what we'll continue to do for some time. And that we have done across clusters actually, Southwest and with equal breadth.

When you guide to 15% revenue growth, would you be looking at 5% inflation -- medical inflation going forward? Should I repeat my question?

I would say there is temporary dilution of per patient realization because, as I had mentioned, we have pared down our low-margin business, but this is only a temporary phase. Over time, we will overcome this and replace that with a higher margin, higher realization business. which will normalize ARPP in the medium to long term.

Right. My second question was on CapEx for 200 beds over the next 2 years, what would be the amount you would be spending just on the growth part of CapEx?

So on -- these are all brownfield expansion and the average cost is about INR 30 lakhs per bed. So that's about INR 120 crores for the 400 beds. Sorry, my apologies. INR 60 crores for 200 beds.

Okay. And lastly on the EBITDA to CFO conversion at 75% this year was lower than the trend we've seen earlier. Are there any one-offs in this? Could we expect an improvement going forward in our working capital cycle?

Yes, so when you adjust for ESOPs, the CFO is actually 87%. So that is the one-off because of which you show what normalized for that, the CFO is actually 87%.

We will take the next question from the line of Pranav Chawla from AMBIT Capital.

Congratulations on a good quarter. Sir, I had a couple of questions. One regarding Slide #18, where we have highlighted margins for various buckets where we classify. If I refer the same to our FY '25 presentation, we are seeing a dip in INR 5 crores to INR 10 crores revenue per month hospitals as well as seeing a sharp decline in margins for the less than INR 5 crore bucket hospitals as well. Can you allude to what has led to that dip?

So that's because there are several centers which moved from third bucket to the second one and second to the first one. So, the...

Primarily due to moving of cohorts?

That's right.

Sir, the balance hospitals that are still operating at this 5% bucket, are these the Bombay assets that we were referring to in the past? And is there scope for margin improvement in this?

It includes that.

Is there scope for margin improvement in this bucket?

So, there is scope to improve margin and ROCE. And of course, you'll see improvement in the subsequent quarters.

Okay. Got it, sir. Sir, and one thing, is it possible for you to quantify what percentage of revenue that you had to forego or the low-margin business that we forego over this fiscal so that we get a better like-on-like comparison of the business?

Right now, we may not be able to answer that question.

Okay, sir. So absolutely not. Sir, lastly, on the Milann transaction, can you give us more color regarding the thought process behind divesting this asset to the promoter himself?

So first, let me answer the question why it was divested, and then I'll answer the second part of the question. See, Milann has been part of HCG for 13 years. And then it became -- we had a majority stake in 2013 and then we became a fully owned subsidiary in 2020. Over the past few years, Milann's operating footprint has steadily declined. The number of centers have come down from 9 to 6. And today, the business operates at a low EBITDA margin and remains only marginally above breakeven on a post-IND basis. So, reviving and scaling the platform would require significant management bandwidth and primary capital infusion, both of which are outside HCG's current strategic focus because we are focused on developing and focusing on the primary oncology network, core oncology network. So, HCG then decided to exit this noncore business and transfer it to a buyer who was better positioned to infuse growth capital, scale the business independently and carry forward the Milann legacy. And why it was sold to Dr. Ajai, See, we initiated a comprehensive sale process, a competitive sale process where HCG shortlisted Inviga as a preferred buyer. And the focus was on maximizing valuation and ensuring that the transaction was done with certainty, and it facilitated a smooth transition for Milann's employees as well. So following a comprehensive evaluation of the offers received and after obtaining the requisite approvals from the Board and the Audit Committee, HCG proceeded with finalization of the transaction with Dr. Ajaikumar.

Got it. Sir, and from a 3- to 5-year lens, can you highlight how many beds do you plan to reach by FY '30 or FY '29, whichever you're comfortable with at this moment I assume this will primarily be brownfield in nature, the town that we've referred to.

So, we've maintained that we'll be adding about 1,000 beds by FY '30. 400 of those beds will come through greenfield expansion and about 600 through the brownfield expansion.

We will take the next question from the line of Ashish from Leo Capital.

But my questions have been answered by the previous participants.

[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Anubhav Sanghvi from Anand Rathi.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. My question is regarding the new North Bangalore facility where you have added MR-LINAC. I just wanted to understand, is MR-LINAC on an ownership basis? Or is it a pay-per-use? Secondly, how are you looking at the ROCE trajectory in the Bangalore region with the addition of North Bangalore?

So, Anubhav, MR-LINAC is on a pay-per-use basis because to create an asset-light model for us. Second is that overall, while Bangalore KR, the flagship hospital is operating at about 28%, 29% ROCE. This is expected to hit a 20% ROCE over the next 4 to 5 years, the new hospital.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question. I now hand the conference back to the management for the closing comments. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you so much for joining us, and I look forward to our next interaction. In case any of the questions have remained unanswered, please reach out to Ravi or me as you deem appropriate. Thank you.

Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of HealthCare Global Enterprises Limited, we conclude this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.