HealthEquity, Inc. (HQY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to HealthEquity's Year-end Sales Metrics Conference Call. Please note that this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Richard Putnam, Investor Relations. Go ahead, Mr. Putnam.

Thank you, Victor. Good afternoon. Welcome to HealthEquity's Fiscal Year-End 2020 Sales Metrics Conference Call. My name is Richard Putnam, I do Investor Relations here for HealthEquity. Joining me today is Jon Kessler, President and CEO; Dr. Steve Neeleman, our Vice Chair and Founder of the company; Darcy Mott, the company's Executive Vice President and CFO, and Bill Otten, our Executive Vice President of Sales. Before I turn over -- the call over to Jon, I have important reminders to provide. First, a copy of today's press release is available for reference on our Investor Relations website, which is ir.healthequity.com. Second, our comments and responses to your questions reflects management's view as of today, February 18, 2020, only and include forward-looking statements as defined by the SEC, which include predictions, expectations, estimates or other information that might be considered forward-looking. There are many important factors relating to our business, which could affect the forward-looking statements made today. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our actual results to differ materially from statements made here today. As a result, we caution you against placing undue reliance on these forward-looking statements. We also encourage you to review the discussion of these factors and other risks that may affect our future results or the market price of our stock that are detailed in our latest annual report on Form 10-K and subsequent Form 10-Qs or current reports filed with the SEC. We assume no obligation to revise or update these forward-looking statements in light of new information or future events. During this call, we may discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures included in our press release, where you will find additional disclosures regarding these non-GAAP measures, including reconciliations of these measures with comparable GAAP measures. I'll now turn the call over to our CEO, Jon Kessler.

It gets better every time, Richard. Thank you. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. We are today announcing strong sales results for HealthEquity's fiscal year ended January 31, 2020, which we believe are an early indicator of the company's newly expanded market footprint and total solution for connecting health and wealth. We are also raising our guidance for fiscal 2020 revenue and profitability and debuting fiscal 2021 guidance reflecting continued HSA growth, a measure of stability in the acquired WageWorks business and accelerated realization of cost synergies discussed in prior calls. I have some prepared remarks on the sales results. Dr. William Otten, III, will describe our efforts to carry momentum into FY '21. He leads sales. He's not a III. He's probably not a doctor. He is William. And Darcy will discuss our raised FY '20 guidance and first look at FY '21. Let's start with new HSAs. During FY '20, HealthEquity opened a record 724,000 new HSAs, up from 674,000 in fiscal '19 and 669,000 in fiscal '18. This figure excludes acquired portfolios as well as accounts on the platforms of WageWorks prior to its acquisition by HealthEquity. New HSA openings in Q4 of fiscal '20 reached 379,000, up from 341,000 in fiscal '19. Overall, HSA members grew 34% year-over-year, topping 5.3 million as of January 31, including new HSA openings, WageWorks and other acquired portfolios, net of closures. Looking at total accounts, which include HSAs as well as consumer-directed benefits, or CDBs, they reached 12.8 million, increasing by 180% compared to 4.6 million total accounts as of the end of fiscal '19. That was largely fueled by the growth of HSAs and the addition of 6.8 million CDBs in connection with the WageWorks acquisition. We continue to plan for some attrition of CDBs along with new sales in FY '21. Turning to HSA assets. They surpassed $11.5 billion at January 31, an increase of 43% or more than $3.4 billion versus a year ago. HSA cash was approximately $8.7 billion as of January 31, an increase of 35% or approximately $2.2 billion, with approximately $1.3 billion of that coming from acquisitions and $900 million coming from organic growth. HSA investments were approximately $2.9 billion as of January 31, an increase of 71%, that's a lot -- or approximately $1.2 billion, with about $650 million of that coming from organic growth, $300 million coming from acquisition and $250 million roughly coming from market growth during the year. As of January 31, approximately $1.8 billion of HSA assets were on the WageWorks HSA platforms. We are working to transition these to the HealthEquity HSA platform during FY '21, as we have previously discussed. Network partner growth was also robust. Robust is good. As many of you know, HealthEquity now reaches new customers through multiple channels. We work with benefit advisers indirectly to sell to employers, and we also partner with a network of health, retirement and other planned providers whom we call network partners. We reported in mid-January that HealthEquity had 164 network partners, that figure reached 165 with the launch later in January by TIAA, the third-largest defined contribution retirement plan record keeper in the United States. The 165 network partners is up from 141 a year ago and 124 2 years ago, as HealthEquity's model for reaching new employers and HSA members continues to grow in both breadth and diversity. Also, last year, we reported that HealthEquity's retirement plan partners covered about 12% of the defined contribution plan or DC market. New partners have doubled that, allowing us to reach the FY '20 goal of 25% DC plan market reach. It's still early days for connecting health and wealth, but HealthEquity is well positioned to benefit from the trend. Meanwhile, the company's health plan footprint grew and remains, we believe, the strongest in the industry. So in today's results, we see accelerated HSA sales, stabilization CDBs, members adopting the right long-term investing behaviors and an expanding network partner base. We see these as creating strong momentum for overall growth of the business. And that's on top of the ability we have to sell our total solution into our existing base of approximately 100,000 employer clients. Now it's about carrying the momentum over to fiscal 2021. To talk about that, I'd like to turn the call over to Bill Otten.

Thanks, Jon. I'm definitely not a doctor, but I appreciate that. Let me first start by thanking all of our dedicated HealthEquity team members, our clients and our partners for the sales results that Jon just reviewed. Your steadfast commitment to remarkable service has helped drive fiscal 2020 sales achievements and provided the foundation for accelerating our success in fiscal 2021. The acquisition of WageWorks provided us a unique opportunity to reevaluate our combined sales organization and to leverage deep domain experience across both teams. We now have over 80 sales team members covering a greater geographic area getting us closer to potential and current network partners and employer clients. Additionally, we are developing a strategic approach to working with national and regional health consultants and brokers, become a part of a major broker and adviser marketplaces and improving how we can better serve our mutual clients. These efforts have produced early momentum for the FY '21 sales cycle. Between September 1 and January 31, normally a very quiet period while employers are going through open enrollment, we received 136 RFP requests. We now have a much larger sales team that can work with our large employer, health plan, and retirement channels as well as the large, mid and small employer segments within these channels. Our sales team loves having a full product suite to offer to these channels. HealthEquity's combined domain expertise and market leadership with HSAs, HRAs, FSAs, Commuter, COBRA, dependent care accounts, individual coverage HRAs and wellness accounts allow our sales and account management teams to say, yes, more often to current and potential clients. It is remarkable to see the interest within our current customers to expand the suite of solutions they are buying from HealthEquity. We are also happy to offer even more aggressive pricing for current customers and when competing on new RFPs when customers buy multiple products from us. We continue to see nearly 2/3 of the HSA RFPs requesting at least 1 additional CDB with their RFP. That is up from the 50% request rate we saw last year. While RFPs are a leading indicator and not a forecasting tool, more potential clients are taking note of our increased capabilities and including HealthEquity in their evaluation process. We're already seeing more at bats and we expect our batting average to go up. With the fiscal 2021 selling season underway, there are some leading indicators we have this year that we did not have at this time last year. We have built a pipeline of over 400,000 benefit eligibles with our new retirement plan network partners, and we are currently engaged in over 70 opportunities with our largest current clients to expand the scope of services we provide. We are better positioned now than ever before to win new business, grow existing business and help our members win financially by helping them spend, save and invest in the most efficient manner. Our connecting health and wealth messaging continues to resonate. I'll now turn the call over to Darcy to review new guidance.

Thank you, Bill. The full year fiscal 2020 guidance given in December in connection with our third quarter earnings report was as follows: revenue in the range of $520 million to $526 million, non-GAAP net income in the range of $101 million to $105 million, non-GAAP diluted EPS in the range of $1.46 to $1.52 and adjusted EBITDA in the range of $182 million to $186 million. We have not yet finalized closing the books on fiscal year 2020; however, our initial results on our strong closing quarter allow us to update our guidance with the following for fiscal year ended January 31, 2020. Revenue in the range of $530 million to $532 million. Non-GAAP net income in the range of $117 million to $119 million. Non-GAAP diluted EPS in the range of $1.71 to $1.73, and adjusted EBITDA in the range of $194 million to $196 million. As you know, HealthEquity's business model provides significant visibility into the next fiscal year revenue. Based on the results that Jon just discussed and Bill's view of -- review of our ongoing sales effort, we expect FY '21 revenue to be in the range of $812 million to $820 million. Implied in our updated FY '20 guidance is a 30% adjusted EBITDA margin for our fourth quarter. We expect to be able to deliver adjusted EBITDA margins in our FY '21 of approximately 31% to 33%. We will be in a better position to provide non-GAAP net income, EPS and more definitive adjusted EBITDA guidance for FY '21 when we report our year-end FY '20 financial results next month. With that, I'll turn the call back over to Jon.

Thank you. We have said that you're not a doctor. He's a doctor of something. Before going to questions, I want to thank those who are truly responsible for these results, our teammates around the country and HealthEquity's network partners and employer clients. You are doing something Positive, that's capital positive, about health care in America, helping millions of families connect health and wealth. I also want to take a moment to thank our finance team whose work on a tight time line has allowed HealthEquity to get these results and guidance to you so quickly after the end of the fiscal year. With that, let's open the call up to questions. Victor?

[Operator Instructions] Our first question will come from the line of Robert Jones from Goldman Sachs.

This is Kevin on for Bob this afternoon. So just excluding Wage, it seems like your guidance for fiscal '21 is implying about high single-digit top line growth for the year, if I'm not mistaken. So based on some of your commentary on the pipeline, is it fair to think that this could potentially reaccelerate in fiscal '22 and beyond, assuming nothing meaningfully changes on the rate front?

Yes. I mean that guidance implies all those things you're talking about, including rate guidance from last year to this year, which we've already signaled previously that, that's going to decrease and be a little bit of a headwind for us. But overall, the blending of our revenue that used to be 50% custodial, 30% accounts, service revenue and 20% interchange is now flipped because of the acquisition, where the predominant portion of it is service revenue and then custodial and then interchange. However, as we continue to execute on this strategy, it is to continue to migrate some of that service revenue into custodial revenue as more people adopt the HSA strategy. So we don't give guidance, obviously, for '22 and '23 and beyond. But the longer-term rationale for doing the merger in the first place and with our focus on HSAs is to make us transition into health with that revenue?

Yes. I mean, just a couple of other points here. One is, back in September, when we announced the closing of the WageWorks transaction, we indicated that WageWorks was running on roughly $34 million to $35 million a month run rate. And I would -- in terms of trying to evaluate to the extent that you want to try and back that out, I think that's the number to be using. It's going to get very difficult for us to look at these as separate businesses because we're not running them as separate businesses. And that's a happy byproduct of getting a quick start on the acquisition. The second point, I would make, and Bill's comments reflect this, we have -- as you -- as I think most people listening know, we are generally pretty cautious about forward-looking statements related to sales. But one thing we did want to convey today, well, first was, we're very happy with the new account openings with the partner -- network partner growth, the development of our retirement plan pipeline, that kind of thing. But then second, that we see that translating into real activity in the marketplace now that give us a level of confidence as much as you can have very early on in the cycle that we're going to have a successful cycle and all else being equal, obviously that should lead to growth in the out years. So I think that's a fair interpretation.

That's really helpful. And then just one quick follow-up. So the updated EBITDA guidance for this year seems to imply 4Q is going to come in a good amount better than you guys maybe had expected a few months ago. I don't know if you guys can maybe just touch on what exactly drove the change in expectations from last quarter to now.

Yes. I think that we had a lot of unknowns going in with having just closed the acquisition and seeing some of the results. I think that we had a plan in place, and we've executed very well. And the entire -- all of the team members throughout the company were focused on this issue. And so I just think we see -- saw a little bit better performance than what we expected on the quickness of which we were able to respond to some of the merger and integration issues. And so hats off to the entire team for helping us do that. Jon, do you have any?

Yes. I mean, look, I think big picture, when we sort of jokingly said at the time of the acquisition that we were sort of rewinding the clock to 5 years ago in terms of margin, and our hope was that we could basically run the same story. And a way to think about that is, 5 years ago, our EBITDA margins were in the high 20s. And we committed to increase margins on a sort of consistent basis and did so. And a way to look at it is that in Q4, you've got a little bit of deposit on that. I will say, looking at fiscal '21 and Darcy's comments on EBITDA margins reflect this, there are some factors that we are going to be cautious about. I mean, the first, as Ted likes to remind me, Ted Bloomberg, our COO, sitting next to me here is, this is our first go-round with the combined company and stuff will happen, and we are trying to be thoughtful in providing contingencies for that stuff because the alternative is, it gets dealt with by people just working faster instead of smarter, and that's not a good answer. The second is, as you commented, we have a little bit of a headwind from interest rates, relative to fiscal '20, of course. And as Darcy commented, our members are doing what we've told them to do, that is for the long term, putting away money in investments, and that's good for us in the long term, but it does pressure margins a little bit in the short term. I mean, a way to think about it is, in the fourth quarter, basically, for the first time ever, we had roughly the same number of dollars growth in investments as we had in cash. And again, I think that reflects our members doing the right thing, but it does weigh a little bit on fiscal '21. So we've tried to, like, put something in the bank there. But at the same time, we're going to continue to be conservative and then if we have the chance to exceed, we'll exceed. But we think that the guidance we've offered represents a good start on the year.

And our next question comes from the line of Anne Samuel from JP Morgan.

As we think about the revenue outlook for next year, how should we be thinking about the cadence of the revenue synergies coming on throughout the year?

Yes. As you know, we have a couple of different pieces of the -- what we call the revenue synergies or the execution of those, the bulk of them, there is a little bit that was down into interchange and that will start coming on fairly rapidly and pretty early in the year. The 2 pieces of custodial revenue synergy, we're kind of half and half between our client health funds and getting optimization of those. That has already started, and we're working -- we've got those funds separated. And now we're just working on getting those into the right accounts that we can get the yield that we would desire on those. And so that activity will happen in this first quarter and then for the remainder of the year, I think that, that should play itself out. The other one, is the harder one, is the -- and Jon talked about this as moving the WageWorks HSA platforms onto our platforms. There's a lot of work going on in that, and that will happen throughout the year. And so that one will be more back-loaded as far as seeing the actual result of the uplift from the synergy on the revenue as we get those transitioned from the former platforms to new rate agreements and new platforms within HealthEquity on the HSA platform.

Yes. I would say, and I -- we said this at JPM, but it's perhaps worth repeating here. This issue of the legal framework in which the predecessor custodians resign and these accounts are transitioned to HealthEquity is something we had to work out. We've now worked it out with, I don't know, 95% of the legacy custodian account holders and, certainly, the large ones, most notably, BNY Mellon. And that train has kind of left the station. It's not kind of left the station, it's left the station. And now it's about assuring as smoother possible experience for our members, for our clients and for our partners. And we're doing our best within that framework to do so. That will be a piece of the work to do this year. As Darcy says, we indicated to you early on, Anne, what the synergy number would be from that activity and that will come on over the course of the year, and we've committed to complete that process in fiscal '21. So we're not talking about this anymore after that. So that's where we are. But a lot of work is going into this right now, and that's not just work at HealthEquity. It's -- our partners and our employers and our members, and we very much appreciate that since this is not work that anyone was planning on before the transaction was announced and the series of events that created kind of moved forward.

That's very helpful. And then, maybe just a follow-up to that. How should we be thinking about the yield on the WageWorks assets, kind of, relative to the 2.4% that you guided on the HealthEquity assets.

We would -- and I'll continue. We would encourage you not to think about it that way, because it will make your head spin. We commented early on about the gross synergy that you could expect from those dollars moving over to the HealthEquity platform and I want to say it was in the range of $12 million of synergy. And we would encourage you to just think about it that way. And what we will do in the first -- in the fourth quarter when we report, as we did in the third is, we'll break out the dollars, so you can see the dollars that are subject to our 2.4% guidance. And then the dollars that are really subject to the synergies. So you don't double count or drive yourself crazy. There is some potential variability there. Obviously, rates have waggled around quite a bit over the last month or 2 with the coronavirus and all that. But all that having been said, I think, if you think about it as a synergy that will be realized or that will be achieved over the course of the year and then realized fully in fiscal '20, some of it will be realized this year, but will be realized fully in fiscal '22, I think you're going to have a lot less of a headache.

And our next question comes from the line of Greg Peters from Raymond James.

Darcy, should we infer that you're in the doghouse since Jon isn't giving you the doctoral designation, like he's giving to other people there? And when is the Vice Chair, who's a real doctor, going to comment on this?

Well, Steve, do you have any comments on this stuff?

[indiscernible] That's a 2-part question. Thank you very much, Greg.

I knew that was coming. So if I look at your results, so what I'm ultimately getting to is the active account numbers. But I was looking at your share of HSA sales at HealthEquity, it looks like it's about 25% of the new sales in the market, according to Devenir. And then if I look at the difference in the growth between last year and this year in actives and then take away the acquired piece, that only leaves me with about 350,000 new accounts. Maybe I'm mixing apples and oranges here, but maybe you can help give us some context around the active account number and its growth versus the total HSA account growth number?

Yes. I think that the way that we look at it is that we look at the actives as a percentage of the total versus the total accounts. And I think that, that number changes about 3% a year. I think that was true last year, and it's probably true this year. And so there's activity that's going on there, accounts drop off, some of them actually come back on. And so that -- what we've seen is that -- about that 3% differential.

Was there any change in your retention in the fourth quarter or for the year as we think about year-over-year comps?

Yes. So -- go ahead.

Yes, go ahead.

So we had a pretty good season for renewals. You're now reminding me, I probably should have commented on this. We actually had quite a few of our largest enterprise customers up for renewal this year. And Mary Lynn Yakel and the team that worked that process did a fantastic job there. As you know, Greg, I think early in the year, we had one case, in particular, that we talked about that was one we didn't renew that cost us 20,000-odd accounts. But there's -- as we've talked about before, there's going to be those cases. And we learned from that very quickly and adjusted and didn't happen twice. So we felt pretty good about our renewal cycle. I think overall, what's maybe difficult about the math you're doing is, and we'll think about whether there's some way we can reconcile this for you, but it's kind of -- it's a funny year because of the add of the WageWorks accounts and what's active and not on that front, the numbers are a little bit funny this year, and we would just -- we do think that the right approach is to focus on and, certainly, we're most excited about the focus on the growth in new accounts which, by their definition, are all active and as well as the continued growth in assets and so forth.

Great. And then my second question was around your comment in the prepared remarks. You said expect some attrition in CDBs in fiscal year '21, can you tell us what you meant by that?

Yes. Thank you for -- actually, normally I get on you for asking the fourth part of the question, but in this case, I won't. I appreciate that. One thing that we talked -- have talked about a little bit, but I think it's a little bit -- I think it's transparent or opaque, the one that's hard to see is with CDBs, importantly, there are accounts that are on the books early in the year, that will flow off over the course of the year. And initially, our hope had been that we would be able to just report and sort of take those out just to have consistent numbers. But as we got into it, it became clear that, first of all, because they do generate revenue while you have them, and because it's not always exactly clear on January 1 what will or won't come out of that group of runout-type accounts, we concluded that it was better off not to try and do that. And so we'll talk about this, I think, a little bit more when we report Q4. But it's just a way to say on the CDB front, I guess the first thing is on CDB front, in the middle quarters, we'll likely see -- depending on sales and so forth, we'll see a little bit of drop off as those runout accounts come off the books. And then the same thing will happen again year after year where the CDB number will have a seasonality to it. I mean, as you know, this is the first time we're reporting CDB on a quarter-over-quarter basis. So it's a metric we'll just have to get used to. The second commentary there is, as Ted is want to protect, we don't want to be in the business of running business that is ultimately where we can't serve our customers well and can't do so profitably. And so we're confident that as we go through the process of integrations that we will identify cases that should churn. And we just want you to be aware that, that's something that may happen over the course of the year and we'll try and offset that with new sales, of course, but we're also not going to shy away from it. So our guidance reflects a little bit of conservatism.

Yes. One thing that, Greg, you know that we, legacy HealthEquity, we've had these metrics that we've tried to report consistently every quarter. And as we got the 6.8 million CDBs, we've been trying to want to accumulate them on a regular reporting basis that we can consistently report. So one thing that we've clarified is that if you had an FSA last year and then you've renewed a new FSA this year, and there's a run-out period, so there's an overlap, in those cases, we are only counting one account for that person. We're not counting 2 FSAs for them.

[ Not that one doesn't. ]

Even though. Now what Jon was talking about as the runoff is somebody who had 1 last year, who has a runoff period, they're actually active, and they're paying a fee for some period of time and the runoffs can vary between 3 months to even longer period sometimes. So in those cases, we are continuing to report them but we will report in our first quarter those -- the extent that those run off during that runoff period. And so we're trying to just put some rules around what we call an account that we're reporting for this purposes.

And our next question will come from the line of Alex Paris from Barrington Research.

This is Chris Howe, sitting in for Alex. You had mentioned in the past, from a broader sense, whether it be health plan and retirement plan partners or direct-to-employer and broker-assisted markets, can you talk about these respective markets as it plays into your fiscal year '21 guidance. And more specifically about the margin accretion that you're expecting, how that plays into your expectations of investments versus cash for fiscal year '21?

Yes, I'll get the first one. Do you want to take get the second?

Sure.

So the 4 sort of markets you described, sort of direct employer, broker-assisted, which -- both of which have a flavor of direct, and then the network partners, primarily health and retirement, if you look at those together, they represent, I think, according to the last numbers Devenir threw out, something like 84%, 85%, 86% of all new HSAs that are open. And our goal really is to have the strongest possible footprint across each of those segments. So as Bill commented, I think that one of the effects of getting our sales team aligned early and all on new comp plans and just nice and neat and clean and working is that on the direct side, we're able to hit the ground running. Bill's team, Gary Robinson and others are out there building our relationships and, in some ways, reintroducing the company to the broker community with a solution that we know that they really want. And then as we talked about, the health side remains in good shape. And in retirement, we set out this goal to get to about 25% market coverage early on as that market begins to develop and we've met it. So they each contribute in some ways to our sales expectations into FY '21. And we'll see how it goes. But this is -- we've always tried to be where the accounts are. It's like that joke about why people rob banks? Because that's where the money is. And I think that was either Jesse, someone named Jesse James or Jesse somebody. And so that's where we're trying to be. With regard to your second question, which was, I think, about the role of the movement from cash to investments and the effect on our guidance.

Right. So in our release, we said that we had $650 million that went from cash to investments on a net. There is some movement back and forth, but that $650 million, last year was like maybe $375 million. So there's a -- so one, we acknowledge that. But what is really actually exciting to us is that more and more our members are figuring out that these accounts should be used not as spending accounts, but long-term retirement savings accounts. And in doing so, they move more money into investments. The interesting part about that, that is a little bit harder to model is that those people who become what we call investors versus just savers, they still maintain a balance of cash in their account. They may keep their deductible in there. They may keep some, maybe, even their out-of-pocket max. But they keep some base level -- layer of cash. And so what we're really trying to do is migrate people from spenders to savers to investors, and we're trying to anticipate that. But there clearly was an acceleration this year with respect to people moving more money into investments. We -- to think that we have now $2.9 billion of invested assets in HSAs; 5 years ago, you would never have thought that would occur. But it's because people are figuring out that these are really long-term retirement savings accounts.

And I think for the long term, I mean, I should say, by the way, Ted, ever the perfectionist, points out that it was Willie Sutton. But in any event, but if you think about this from a longer-term perspective, our view is that, ultimately, the average HSA at maturity will have balances in that kind of $15,000 range. And that can only happen if people are investing. They're not going to have 23% years like folks had last year, right, every year, but their investments are going to grow a lot faster than their cash. And also, they're naturally going to look at investments as a multiyear thing. So we feel like, although progress is still not as fast as we want, we certainly felt the impact, I think, of both the market's overall shift, our increased focus with our retirement partners and the work, the sort of hand-to-hand combat that the team does every day along with our partners and clients to educate members.

That's helpful. And I'm sure, as you see this acceleration, newer members are becoming more aware of the investment opportunity.

We hope so.

And our next question comes from the line of Donald Hooker from KeyBanc.

A question, as you're contemplating your fiscal '21 for revenue guidance, I think, in the past, you talked about WageWorks being at maybe a 400 -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I think $410 million, $420 million revenue run rate that had declined from some attrition as you described to us in the past. What -- how should we think about that number going forward? What can you share with us on that revenue line?

Well, it's actually getting very hard for us to do because, obviously, as the business grows, that growth is just growth of the business as opposed to growth of Wage or what have you. But I think that remains a good baseline. We did say, Don, in the third quarter, when we reported that, at that point, that we felt like on a sort of apples-to-apples basis, we had done a little bit better than the top end of that range with the Wage business. But not much, I mean, somewhere in the 35s and I think the continued discussion of sort of stability here in this call kind of reflects that, I think, that would be about right. But again, we added -- I mean, we added accounts on the Wage platforms on the HSA side. Obviously, we had new sales of our CDBs that we wouldn't have had without Wage. And so it's a little bit difficult for me to unpack all that as time goes on.

Yes. Yes. Well, no, we try to unpack it. But as we look at these revenue streams, they really do -- as we transition an HSA from a Wage platform to a HealthEquity platform, whose revenue is that, for example? Or if we transition some of our CDBs over to the Wage platform, is that Wage revenue? Or is that HealthEquity revenue? It's just going to get very muddy going forward, so we're trying to give the overall guidance for the company and not kind of split it out between the 2.

And you mentioned in your prepared comments that there might be some aggressive pricing. I think somebody used the word aggressive. I know in the past...

Wasn't me.

That was you. It was you.

Was it Bill? It was Bill. Bill, the sales guy.

Yes. I think -- but I think you guys had talked about that being part of the strategy here that service fee per member going down. I guess, your forward-looking guidance is contemplating a continuation of that or an acceleration of that. Just that word aggressive jumped out to me.