Helical plc (HLCL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning and may I welcome you all to the J.J. Mack building for the presentation of Helical's full year results to 31 March 2023. I am pleased you are here to see what we would describe as a best-in-class building, which is BREEAM Outstanding, NABERS 5 EPCA. Do please take a look at the top quality amenities, the bike parking and the changing rooms. For those of you joining on the webcast facility, if any of you would like to see the J.J. Mack building at any time, we would be delighted to arrange a tour. Please let me set out the agenda for today. and we will follow our normal format that is familiar to many of you. I will run through the key points from the results, provide my views on the market, describe our pipeline and set out the way forward. Tim will present the numbers, and Matthew will talk about the TfL joint venture, the portfolio highlights and sustainability. I will then sum up after which, we will be delighted to answer any questions that any of you may have. Frustratingly, but not surprisingly bearing in mind our people in the financial markets, we reported a loss of GBP 64.5 million. Our valuations are down by 10.1% over the year. This reflects an outward yield movement of 79 basis points across the portfolio. As I will shortly explain, we have been caught by valuation yields repricing to reflect the rapid upward movement in interest rates. Our EPRA NTA value has decreased 13.8% from 572p in March 2022 to 493p today. Our LTV, which was at 35% last March, is now 27.5%. We are proposing a final dividend per share of 8.7p, up 5.5%, taking the total dividend to 11.75p. During the year, we recycled capital locking in good gains by selling Kaleidoscope, 15 Bartholomew, 14 apartments and the freehold at Barts Square as well as Trinity in Manchester. A total value of over GBP 200 million and at a combined 3.7% above the March 2022 book value. Prior to completion of the J.J. Mack building was achieved on program and within budget on 30 September. We have let 2 floors, 37,880 square feet to Partners Group at strong rents. In total, across the portfolio, we have let 65,550 square feet at a 6.9% premium to the March 2022 ERV. As to the future, we have a great -- we have greatly enhanced our development pipeline. We have obtained a resolution to grant planning consent for 192,000 square feet at 100 New Bridge Street. We were delighted to have been selected by Transport for London to become their joint venture partner for the development of 3 over-station developments at Bank, Paddington and Southwark. Let me give you my view on what is happening in the market, which is highlighting our previously expressed thesis of bifurcation from both an investment and occupational viewpoint. We have 4 key components of Central London office property that are rising. First, interest rates. We have had ultra-low interest rates since 2008. And having been below 1% for so long, it took the market by surprise when they started rising in February last year. And since then, the Bank of England have raised the rate 11x to 4.5% today. Second, as well as increasing the cost of debt on real estate borrowing, yields have also risen to reflect the repricing in government bonds across the market. With regard to best-in-class London offices, I would suggest that the yield movement is a technical correction to reflect this increase in yields. Beyond the best-in-class, there is a bifurcation with the yields for the older, less sustainable poorer-quality offices rising rather more. These buildings will require significant CapEx to bring them up to the correct standard when leases end and the tenants vacate. The extent of this is well illustrated on the graph. Previously, these poorer quality, less sustainable buildings would have kept a place in the market with a low-cost refurbishment and then reletting at a significant rental discount to the best. Because of the MEs requirements, meeting the buildings that are below EPC B should not be let post 2030. This option is rapidly running out of road. Therefore, far more extensive work needs to be undertaken to these older buildings, which is at a greater cost and has been compounded by the third rising component, which is the significant building cost inflation. To put these building costs into perspective, the JJ Mack building we are in today costs GBP 396 a square foot to complete 6 months ago. And our quantity survey saying this would cost GBP 496 a square foot to build Nile, 25% more. So we have the technical correction at the top end of the market and a rather more substantial correction below that. I do not believe that the bottom of the downward price discovery on those assets has yet been reached. It may only be when the lease ends and the rent stops that the full reality of the position is clear. To put this into perspective, Helical's best-in-class assets have seen a negative 5.6% total property return over the last 12 months which has outperformed the MSCI Central London office total return benchmark of minus 8.6%. Previous significant capital value downturns similar to what we are experiencing now, have been caused by recessions following a period of economic exuberance, which led to an oversupply of new office space. This was accentuated by a reduced demand as tenants sheltered from the recession and rents well across the whole quality spectrum of offices. Now the good news is that we have thus far avoided a recession, there is no oversupply of new space. Indeed, there is an undersupply. As tenants move out of the older poor quality, less sustainable buildings to this new best-in-class space, we have the fourth rising component in the Central London office universe, which is the only positive one being rising rents. The bifurcation in tenant demand has been accentuated between the best, the newly developed or comprehensively refurbished buildings at the forefront of sustainability with top quality amenities and the rest, the tired secondhand buildings with weak sustainability credentials and poor amenity. Particularly for the larger requirements, demand is clearly focused on the best-in-class with a vacancy rate across Central London and 1.4% for this space compared to a total vacancy rate of 8.5%. The letting market is currently going through a lull with occupiers taking their time to decide what they want to do, which is perhaps not surprising against what has been happening in the banking sector. This is illustrated by Q1 take-up across Central London of 2.1 million square feet. This is 9% below the Q1 10-year average and 33% below the overall quarterly average. We are experiencing some of that here at the J.J. Mack building. We had the top 2 floors under offer in January to a private equity tech investor, who were through just before signing the lease when their main banking relationship, Silicon Valley Bank liquidated in mid-March. I am pleased to say that we currently have good interest across the building. I've seen these lulls in letting activity previously, and it feels like momentum is beginning to build back up again. The agents are reporting good levels of viewings and under offers in Q1 increased by 18% to 3.2 million square feet, having fallen for the previous 3 quarters. To support the bifurcation argument, 72% of space under offer is best in class. Active demand is estimated to be 9.3 million square feet comprising around 100 separate requirements. We see no signs of occupiers seeking less space in response to flexible working. Indeed, Lafon Watkins have taken a further 80,000 square feet of Brookfield's One Leadenhall as they underestimated their original requirement. I would also add that occupiers need the same amount of space, whether it is occupied 4 or 5 days a week. JLL have produced some interesting information, 832 London office occupiers who occupy 38.2 million square feet of space in Central London, have signed up to science-based sustainability targets. JLL charge future occupational requirements of 23.7 million square feet, focused on net 0 carbon buildings against a development pipeline of 10.6 million square feet due to deliver between now and 2028. There is the pull for tenants to move to the best. This is to attract and retain the brightest staff to encourage greater attendance in the office, to provide a dynamic and exciting workspace as well as to meet their net 0 carbon and other sustainability objectives. The push for tenants to move out of the poor quality space is the ratchet of the minimum energy efficiency standard MEAs, whereby the landlord will be in breach letting space below EPC from this April rising to below EPC B by 2030. We are excited by our pipeline going forward, which I would like to describe to you. Top priority, we have the remaining 168,000 square feet of the J.J. Mack building to let. As I've just said, we have good levels of interest, and we endeavor to complete the task without delay. We now have a planning consent at 100 New Bridge Street for 192,000 square feet which is an increase of 25,000 square feet from the building we acquired. We start on site in the autumn and the carbon-friendly new building is due to complete in Q2 2025. This will be followed by the TFL sites comprising around 600,000 square feet in total. First Bank, which we draw down Q4 2024, second will be Southwark starting in 2025, and and the third Paddington to be drawn down in 2026. Matthew will go through the detail on the TfL joint venture shortly. We have recycled capital from the sales mentioned earlier, and we will continue with this capital recycling as we both develop out and add to our pipeline. As I've explained previously, and as our best-in-class pipeline illustrates, we prefer island or edge of block rather than mid-terrace locations. We want good public realm, whether we control or borrow this, and we are looking for larger floor plates. While we will now have 3 ground-up new developments, there is good reason as all the TFL sites are above new stations. Notwithstanding this, we believe there will be greater emphasis on refurbishment going forward. This has the advantages of considerable savings in carbon, less planning and construction risk and greater speed back to market. That's our carbon-friendly new building. We target that our buildings should be net 0 carbon BREEAM standing, Nabors 5 and EPCA. We maximize tenant amenity with plenty of bike parking space, high-quality changing rooms, as well as the latest technology and wellness. Over the last year, we have let 65,550 square feet in 9 units delivering GBP 3.4 million of contracted rent, which is 6.9% above ERV. The vacancy across the portfolio is 16.1% or 6.2% on a like-for-like basis compared to 6% as at 31 March 2022. Our passing rent today is GBP 35 million, and the chart shows how this rent almost doubled to over GBP 60 million, with contracted uplift of GBP 4 million, rent from letting the current available space of GBP 9.5 million and a development pipeline of GBP 9.7 million. In addition, we have the TfL portfolio, which will add around GBP 25 million of rent over time. Assuming we see no further yield movement for best-in-class assets, we anticipate future growth will come from rising rents, reversions and development gains. The Bower, the Loom and 25 Charterhouse Square will show good rent increases as we either let the vacant space or complete rent reviews. The J.J. Mack building adds GBP 7.6 million of rent our share when the space is let. Under New Bridge Street, we will provide development gains. There is then the surplus generated from the TfL portfolio where we are working on a 20% profit on cost. On that positive note, I will now hand over to Tim.

Thank you, Gerald, and good morning, everyone. In the year to March 23, we made good progress across the board against our targets for the year. We saw net rental income growth, good level of development profits, reduced total admin costs and lower finance costs as the group continued to benefit from its hedging strategy. We also disposed of over GBP 230 million of properties that's almost 4% above book value, reducing gearing and increasing cash and undrawn bank facilities. However, as Gerald has already stated, economic and geopolitical factors have affected bond yields, and we've seen valuation declines across the portfolio, partly offset by gain at the JJ Mack building. These losses have turned what would have been a profitable year into a net loss. So let's take a look at the detail. Turning to Slide 14. Our net rental income of GBP 33.5 million is 7.2% higher than last year. This comes partly from a full year of net rents at the 100 New Bridge Street, but was reduced by the sale of Kaleidoscope halfway through the year. We made a development profit of just over GBP 3 million from development management fees at the JJ Mack building and profits from the sale of the remaining residential units at Barts Square. Our total administration costs of GBP 13.3 million were 22% lower than last year. And while we're on the subject of overheads, we've reduced the budget for our core administration costs by 13% for the year to March '24. Our net finance costs before the valuation gain on our swaps were also down from GBP 13.8 million to GBP 11.9 million. So overall, on an EPRA basis, we generated earnings of GBP 11.5 million or 9.4p per share, compared to GBP 6.4 million or 5.2p last year, an increase of 80%. Moving on to the non-EPRA components of the income statement. A 79 basis points outward movement in yields generated a valuation loss of GBP 98 million in the main group which is partly offset by a gain of GBP 5 million from the revaluation of the JJ Mack building, that was in joint venture and a profit on sale of investment assets, also of GBP 5 million, leaving a net loss on sale and revaluation of GBP 88 million. Our interest rate swaps again contributed to valuation surplus this time of nearly GBP 13 million. So overall, we made a net loss before tax of GBP 64.5 million. And as we are now a REIT, there is no tax charge or credit, so our post-tax loss is also GBP 64.5 million. If we remained outside the REIT regime, we would have a tax bill to pay on the sales of Kaleidoscope and Trinity of over GBP 12 million. The rise in EPRA earnings and GBP 53 million of realized capital profits support an increase in our dividend despite the overall results. And the Board has taken the decision to recommend a final dividend of 8.7p per share, up 5.5%. Adding this to the interim dividend, the total dividend for the year will be 11.75p, an increase of 5.4% on last year's 11.15p. Turning to Slide 15. The EPRA NTA per share of $0.05 to 2.3p at March last year were boosted by the EPRA earnings per share generated in the year, but reduced by investment losses of 78.1p. -- And dividends paid in the year of 11.3p, leaving an EPRA NTA per share at 31st of March '23 of 493.2p, down 13.8%. Turning to our LTV and gearing on Slide 16. We see a history of these ratios over the last 11 years. The profitable sales of Kaleidoscope, Trinity and 55 Bartholomew as well as the residential units at Barts Square all contributed to a reduction in the LTV to 27.5% and balance sheet gearing to 38%, both towards the lower end of the past decade. Turning to Slide 17. We used GBP 170 million of the sale proceeds of over GBP 210 million to reduce the outstanding borrowings on our GBP 400 million RCF. Reducing it to GBP 230 million. We also extended the expiry date of this facility to July '26 and added sustainability targets to it, which, if met, will reduce the bank margin by a few basis points. The PIMCO facility, formerly Allianz, due for repayment in July '24 has a 1-year extension option that we are likely to exercise. All our borrowings are now either green loans or sustainability-linked loans. Going forward, our main task on banking this year is to put a development facility in place for 100 New Bridge Street, and I'm pleased to report that discussions are proceeding well with a number of banks who are looking to support us on this scheme. Turning to Slide 18, and in a period of stubbornly high inflation and increased interest rates, all of our current borrowings are protected by a combination of interest rate swaps and fixed rates. This interest rate protection covers our debt until the current expiry of the facilities. Looking at our loan covenants and debt costs on Page 19, it's worth noting we can withstand a further 49% fall in property values and a 31% fall in rental income before we start to reach our banking covenants. And looking at the cost of our debt. The weighted average cost, including commitment fees on undrawn amounts at 31st of March was 3.4%. Of course, our current hedging will run out by the end of the facilities. And without it, the average cost of debt today will be around 6.2%. And looking forward to the expiry of the facilities, using the current forecast on rate for July '26, the weighted average cost of our debt fully utilized would be around 5.7%, all other things being equal. Finally, a summary of our financial position on Slide 20. We have a net asset value of over GBP 600 million, a net debt level of around GBP 231 million which gives an LTV of around 27.5%, down nearly 8% since last March. We have 244 of cash and undrawn facilities and have a fixed cost of debt for the next 3 years. So we have a strong balance sheet, a highly sustainable investment portfolio and a substantial development pipeline scheduled to deliver best-in-class office space to an undersupplied market. And with that, I'll hand you over to Matthew.

Thank you, Tim, and good morning, everyone. I'm going to take you through some of the portfolio highlights, provide some further color on the joint venture with TfL's new property company, TTLP and cover sustainability matters. Turning first to the J.J. Mack building, we announced in November the letting to Global Private Markets Investment Manager of the Partners Group who took the sixth and seventh floors at an average rent of GBP 99 per square foot. As Gerald mentioned, we have good interest in the remaining space. And given the quality of the product, its sustainability and smart building credentials, we are anticipating further lettings in the near future. Just down the road at 100 New Bridge Street, we have obtained a recommendation for planning approval subject to the signing of a Section 106 agreement. Following the vacation of Baker Mackenzie and the retail tenants at the end of this year, we will be looking to deliver 192,000 square feet in a carbon-friendly newbuild scheme retaining the existing structural frame, which will significantly reduce the embodied carbon. Due to complete in Q2 '25, we aim to launch a market-leading technologically smart net 0 office building, which will be EPCA, BREEAM outstanding and NABERS 5 star with a focus on occupier well-being located immediately adjacent to Citi Thameslink between Blackfriars and Farringdon stations, it'll be arranged over ground and 10 upper floors with extensive terracing on 6, 7, 8 and 9 floors and benefit from excellent occupier amenity. We spent a good proportion of the past financial year going through a very extensive TfL procurement process to select their commercial office development joint venture partner. We were particularly attracted to this opportunity for a number of reasons. Firstly, the quality of the 3 initial seed sites at Bank, Paddington and Southwark, and the requisite sizes of those individual schemes. Also, the fact that they are -- TfL are one of London's largest landowners with whom we have worked successfully in the past. And that they have other very interesting assets within their portfolio. This, therefore, provides us with access to a visible pipeline of exciting opportunities. The joint venture is structured on a 51% helical and 49% TTLP basis and is seeded with the 3 consented projects with specified drawdown dates and pricing, and an expectation that more sites will follow. The schemes will be taken forward by agreement between the partners and debt secured at a project level and each is anticipated to provide a 20% profit on cost. Turning firstly to the scheme of Bank. This is very similar to Kaleidoscope in many ways in that we will inherit a cleared site with a concrete box to develop over which houses the transport infrastructure, which, in this case, is the new Cannon Street entrance of Bank underground station, which was delivered as part of the capacity upgrade works. It is an island site between King William Street and Cannon Street and will provide a best-in-class new office building with floor plates of circa 22,500 square feet, again, with extensive terracing. We aim to make some minor changes to improve the existing scheme, addressing core efficiencies, cyclist arrival experience, amenity and provision and ensuring that it achieves the highest achievable sustainability ratings. We aim to deliver this to the market in Q4 2026. The Paddington scheme will be developed over the Eastern entrance to Paddington Station and the slip way to the new taxi rank which was relocated as part of the Crossroad works. The office entrance will be at Canal level, obviously, at the Brunel Building, immediately south of Bishops Bridge. It benefits from a 2015 planning permission for a 19-story building comprising 235,000 square feet. You will see from the artist impression that the external design needs a lot of work. And equally, the interior layout needs substantial amendments to ensure that it meets the exacting requirements of today's occupier. We've already carried out extensive work on these issues as part of the bid process. And we are confident that we can deliver a best-in-class product. We hope to bring forward the drawdown date of 2026 on this scheme, assuming agreement with our partners sufficient, progress on the necessary, planning amendments, funding and, of course, assuming the market conditions are favorable. At Southwark, the project benefits from a recently obtained planning permission for 220,000 square feet of offices the buildings to be built directly above Southward underground station, which lies between Waterloo and London Bridge mainline stations. The AHMM design is particularly striking and offers a variety of floor plates with wonderful views and terracing on virtually every floor. Structurally, it is quite complex and the facade detailing a very intricate. We've been exploring options to simplify the scheme to allow it to be delivered at a reduced cost. And hence, we expect to make planning amendments prior to starting on site. We are confident, however, that we can deliver an exciting building in this vibrant market. Turning to the existing portfolio. At the Bower, we let the 12th floor to invoice financing specialist TEN at ERV. And since the year-end, we have had the 14th floor back, which is currently being refitted and will be relaunched back to the market, albeit we do have some good interest from an existing tenant. We also have rent reviews taking place on 11 floors at the tower. Since the start of the calendar year, there's been a noticeable increase in the level of inquiries and activity both at the Loom and the wider E1 area, which is positive to see. We completed 2 new lettings in the period, circa 7,000 square feet with a further 3 new lettings post year-end of 7,443 square feet. All of these lettings were at or above ERV. Within and post the period, we also completed 4 lease re-gears at ERV, totaling circa 8,500 square feet, moving these tenants to more suitably sized spaces within the building. At Charterhouse Square, we let the ground floor unit to a stone retailer and the newly refurbished fourth floor is currently on the market with good interest being shown. We also have rent reviews ongoing on 4 floors within the building. In terms of disposals, Kaleidoscope was sold in September for GBP 158.5 million, representing a net initial yield of 4.25%, realizing a 16% unlevered IRR and a 68% profit on cost. In May, we sold our last remaining asset in Manchester to Mayfair Capital realizing a 9.4% unlevered IRR and a 28.5% profit on cost. At Bart Square, we have now sold all of the residential apartments for a combined value of GBP 317 million, and the freehold ground rent interest was sold to the residents. We completed 4 new retail lettings in the year, leaving 1 unit remaining, and the last of the 3 offices within the Scheme 55 Bartholomew was sold in June at a sale price reflecting 4.5% net initial yield. Our sustainability measures have seen improvements. with 5-star GRESB ratings achieved for both our standing investments and our developments and an improvement in our CDP score moving from a C to a B. We have also retained our AAA rating for our MSCI management of our ESG risks and opportunities and our Gold Award from EPRA sustainability best practice recommendations. Our portfolio remains 99% by value, EPC A or B, an 88% BREEAM Outstanding or excellent. And we will continue to drive the sustainability credentials of our portfolio as we recycle equity and invest in market-leading best-in-class developments, which is where we see office [indiscernible] is very much focused. I'll now hand back to Gerald.

Thank you, Matthew. Let me sum up. We have realized value, recycling capital through some judicious sales in the last year. By taking encouragement from the quality of our portfolio, which is new and sustainable and which we asset manage to advance performance and improve sustainability. The merits of this are illustrated in the MSCI outperformance. We will continue developing best-in-class assets, which we believe will outperform in this market. So we see upside as we let the JJ Mack comprehensively refurbished 100 New Bridge Street and it is great, we now have extended our pipeline with the TfL joint venture sites. We see a shortage of best-in-class space, and we expect to see ongoing rental growth on these assets as the occupational market continues to bifurcate. To respond to this shortage, we continue to evaluate additional opportunities to add to our portfolio. Thank you. And we will now be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Any questions? James.

It's James Carswell from Peel Hunt. I mean, you talked at the end about seeing opportunities. You've also got a big development pipeline. Just in terms of the level, I appreciate you've got a lot of cash undrawn debt. But in terms of the LTV, I mean, how high would you be willing to take LCV at the moment? And would disposals maybe bringing in partners to be part of how that could be funded?

I'll deflect the first part of the question to the finance.

Yes, I think we stated recently that we would operate in November, we said we'd operate between 20% and 35% LTV. We would always go beyond that if we felt it was right to acquire a new scheme, but we would look to bring it down. So you'll see that during this year, we have recycled equity out Kaleidoscope and Trinity, and that's enabled us to confidently go forward with 100 New Bridge Street and also to have equity for either additional schemes or to invest in the TfL portfolio. I think you can expect us to recycle more equity if we felt it was right to continue to acquire new schemes and add them to the pipeline. But I think in today's world, you don't really want to push your gearing levels too far, and there's not a lot of return on gearing these days given the high interest costs.

Matt Saperia from Peel Hunt. Just following James' question. Tim, you mentioned that you're looking at putting in a debt facility for 100 New Bridge Street. Any view on how the terms of that might differ from the one that you've got with PIMCO on the J.J. Mack building?

Not in terms of loan to cost or life. We're looking at a 5-year facility or 4 plus 1. I think we look to 55% to 60% loan to cost. But clearly, the finance costs are going to be higher. The margin is pretty similar as a development facility, turning into an investment facility on completion and the achievement of lettings. So imagine the margin would be pretty similar to the one we've got here. But the base level of interest rate is that much higher. So the all-in cost will be nearer to 8 at the moment. So we'll see whether we put hedging in place to try and protect it from any further interest rate increases, but it really is only the finance cost that we expect will be different from the existing facility on this building.

[indiscernible] from Peel Hunt. I don't often get the bankers asked your question. I think you mentioned on the JJ Mack building, the cost to build was GBP 396 million that presumably was set several years ago. Today, it's GBP 496 million. Where is inflationary trends for construction looking to the next pipeline?

I believe it's coming down. Arcadis who pretty good handle on these things. I think that predicted around 3% or 4% in Central London going forward over the next few years. So it was 10%, 12% last year and the year before, hence, the 25%. So we let the building contract here in 2020, finished it in September '22. So it's gone up 25% over a couple of years. So it's -- it will be interesting to see how it pans out and one -- certainly, the people at the front end of the demolition, contractors obviously, and they're saying they're not quite as busy as they were -- finishes subcontractors they realize that problems coming down the line because they're still busy.

Just a quick question. Now that you're a REIT, does that change the way you think about kind of the total returns, in particular, in the rest of the fact you've got quite a short maturity on the debt. And so I'm just trying to think in terms of the earnings trajectory and dividend as well. Does that change at all from being a REIT? I appreciate you are a London office developer though, first and foremost.

Yes, I think in terms of the short-term nature of our current debt, obviously, the -- all our investment assets are in the one facility, the GBP 400 million RCF, we would look to probably extend that for another 5 years when we get to it in a year or 2's time, subject to at least one of the bankers in the room agreeing to that. In terms of the impact of being a REIT, I mean my view is if you think of a normal gestation period of a development, you build it, you get PC, you have a 12-month voyage [indiscernible] to letting, you got a 2-year stabilization period as you wait for rent-free periods to burn off. That's the 3-year period for retention under the REIT legislation. And I think then typically, we would look to recycle equity into new schemes. It's always going to be a challenge in terms of the income side of the business because we are relatively small, relatively equity constrained. So you'll have seen from the sale of Kaliedoscope that we've lost the income from that building and now recycling into new schemes that don't currently generate rental income. So I think if you look at the statement, and I think you've made this point in the last few statements, our dividends are not just about earnings. They're also largely about realized capital profits. So taken together, that supports our continued dividend policy, and we would imagine that policy will continue going forward.

Very quick questions. Do you expect to earn any development fees on the TfL JV? And do you expect how much is the yield on cost on the TfL JV?

The DM fees are relatively low as a sort of a percentage. I mean, it's -- that hasn't been signed yet the deal, so it's difficult to say too much. But I mean, then they're not a huge earner in terms of the overall project. And it's -- I mean, yield on cost is across the 3 projects is probably around 6%, 6.5%.

You have one other question. One question, which is from Miranda at Palmer and she asked, can you give an indication of your share of the cost to build the Bank TfL development and the cost to build 100 New Bridge Street. Shall I go first with the TFL Bank project. It's the total development costs are -- will be circa GBP 200 million, which will be shared 50-50, but there will be a debt to be put on that project, probably around 50% to 60% loan to cost. And 100 New Bridge Street building cost is around GBP 100 million. Good? Is there anything else online? Great. Well, thank you very much, everyone, for listening or for attending.