Hera S.p.A. (HER) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everybody. We are here to present the 2023 Results that the Board of Directors approved a few hours ago. And these were record results in terms of value creation. We are here with our CEO, Orazio Iacono; and our CFO, Massimo Vai; and with our Investor Relator, Mr. Jens Hansen.

Let me begin by illustrating the main results for the year. As far as turnover is concerned, we had a 26% reduction, which is related for the most part to the energy. It allowed us to reduce the trading activities, which were a main part of last year when we normalized the revenues from supply. As far as we're concerned, the reduction in energy prices is a positive element, of course, and as we'll be seeing later, the results, especially in the energy are pretty much independent from the energy price trends. As far as EBITDA is concerned, we've seen a EUR 200 million growth, the highest ever growth as far as our group is concerned, which is equal to 15%. This growth also happens in EBITDA with EUR 110 million growth, equal to 18%, which means we have a higher growth as far as EBIT is concerned. Now, what are the main drivers? And, of course, we'll be going into a business-by-business breakdown later. But here, we decided to separate the last resort into markets, especially the Salvaguardia market, which, as you may remember, we were awarded at the end of 2022 for a 2-year period covering 2023 and '24. And then we have the contribution coming in from ecoefficiency, and this is where the super eco-bonus comes in. And, all in all, the contribution here was equal to EUR 110 million. We then have an organic growth worth EUR 65 million. And the contribution from M&A is worth EUR 25 million. Therefore, if we consider organic growth and M&A, we stand at a 7% average growth compared to an overall growth of 15% as far as EBITDA is concerned. Now, the growth on EBITDA translates into a growth in value. You may remember our business plan, which we covered together a few weeks ago. We had a sense that the growth is of value was one of the pillars that the business plan was based on. And you're going to see the effects here on the year-end 2023. You can see that ROI is up by 190 basis points from 7.9% to 9.8%, increasing our results even compared to 2021. EPS is up by 17.1%, which gives us a total shareholder value for 2023, which is above 22%. Now, in the middle graph, the column on the far right, you may remember that last year, we introduced a view, which is a little bit different in terms of accounting and management due to the effects of our storage. Last year, those numbers were affected by the gas storage effects. Whereas this year, the figure which had a minus sign in front of it last year is now back to being positive. Therefore, we certainly have improved our profit by EUR 60 million and EBITDA up by EUR 90 million. We were mentioning a value creation, although value creation has to be sustainable. And, in this case, you'll notice that on all axes, beginning with carbon neutrality, the circular economy, and resilience and innovation, we are growing compared to the targets we had defined for 2027. They are in line with the targets that we had set. Everything is improving, including shared value creation, the CSP EBITDA is worth EUR 26 million with the CSV EBITDA, which is up by 16%, which goes to show that if we remove the contribution from the Salvaguardia market, the rest of the growth was, in fact, shared value growth. Let me now give the floor to our CFO, who will be mentioning the cash flow trends.

Good afternoon, everybody. We have a couple of slides to comment the evolution of the cash flow generation and the structure of the group's debt. Beginning with the first slide in 2023, the group generated an overall level of cash, which we used to reduce the debt equal to EUR 422 million, which is the last column on the graph on the left-hand side. Now, the cash flow generated for the operating cash flow equal to EUR 940 million, which was EUR 604 million in September. We then had the management of the net work. Capital was EUR 604 million and this allowed us to manage both the maintenance CapEx worth EUR 519 million, and the development CapEx worth EUR 260 million, which gives us an overall value worth EUR 779 million compared to the 2022 figure, which was slightly below EUR 690 million with a EUR 100 million growth as far as the Group's CapEx is concerned. And then downstream, we had the dividend distribution in June and financing the M&A transactions at 2023, which gives us a benefit of a debt reduction equal to EUR 422 million. Now, if we look at the last quarter, we can notice that the EUR 300 million, which increased the cash flow of the company, we're entirely transferred to the reduction of debt given that the release of cash flow and the net working capital allowed us to fully finance the investments we made in October, November, and December 2023, which is a great result, which amplifies the cash flow generation. The second part of the year, which is consistent with the progressive reduction of the energy commodity price reduction, namely electricity and gas, which in the first month of 2023, you may remember, had a high level and which are quite different from what we saw in the second half of the year and even what we're seeing in this period of the year following a thermal season, which was quite mild compared to expectations. All of this gives us an index, as you can see on the right-hand graph, which is a reduction in the net debt-to-EBITDA ratio. We had a peak, which we had a recent Q3 2022 or 3.6x. We then began a determined and very swift reduction, which on the 30th of June of 2023, had brought us down to 3x, which is our benchmark. And then we further decreased September 2.9x at year-end, we stood at an excellent 2.56x, which gives us a target which is even lower compared to the target we had given ourselves in 2021. But we still weren't seeing the volatility that we had seen and were able to manage over the past 18 months. And then in 2024, we'll see how this indicator will continue to stay at around the target that as far as we're concerned, is a standard for a sound financial policy that can support the Group's industrial growth. Now, if we move to the following slide, in a nutshell, let me just remind you of the fact that our cost of debt EBITDA long term has gone up compared to 2022, but only by 0.3%, which is simply linked to the fact that during 2023, as I'm sure you remember, in April, we admitted a sustainable linked bond worth EUR 600 million at 4.5% and that had a slight impact on our medium to long-term debt. Obviously, during the year, 2023, we also had to turn to higher rates from bank loans in the very short term, but they allowed us to deal with the cash needs we had to continue managing the company based on our industrial planning, but also as a way of having that reserve margin, which allow us to have efficiencies, and it allowed us to maintain the commitments we had made in the business plan, which, in turn, allowed us to obtain the results that the Executive Chairman illustrated in the very first slide. Overall, therefore, we had a very good result and our exposure to rate risk since that currently, we still haven't seen a reduction in interest rates, which we've been expecting by the European Central Bank. Although the medium-to-long-term curve is already decreasing, although it still stands at levels which are higher compared to 2 years ago. Again, our exposure to variable rate is only equal to 4% since the 96% of our debt has a fixed rate. We also have to add to that that in a normalization scenario and having eliminated the bank debt since at the same time, we gave ourselves some committed credit lines which give us flexibility in those lines we are using. We won't be having any emissions during 2024. Therefore, the trend as far as that is concerned, is quite under control. Now, we are improving it on a daily basis to overperform. Let me conclude by making a brief comment on the right-hand side of this slide. We have our ratings as far as Standard & Poor, Moody's are concerned. And if we look at the Standard & Poor's indicator, our rating level hasn't changed for the past 18 months despite the volatility we saw and despite the impacts that the Chairman was mentioning earlier. Regardless of that, we are compared to those Italian utilities, which are 100% regulated, and we therefore aren't exposed to risk, which testifies, I think, to the credibility, the trust, the confidence, and our cautious approach to risk management, which is something that our group has had for the past 20 years. I'll leave it at that, and I'll hand it over to the Chairman for the following slides.

Well, let's go into the various businesses now, beginning with energy supply. You'll see how with a constant growth that we've been seeing since 2020. 2023 had extraordinary growth equal roughly EUR 180 million as far as EBITDA is concerned. What I'd like to mention in this curve, which I've already mentioned to some of you is that despite the scenario, both when prices were going up and when prices are decreasing like now, the Group continues to grow in this area. We have a EUR 25 million contribution from energy efficiency and VAS. The pure commodities gives us a EUR 158 million contribution, roughly EUR 90 million of which stem from the Salvaguardia contribution, which is a difference converted last year, and this is the effect of the tender we were awarded in the '23 and '24, 2-year period. Now, the remaining part is linked in a balanced way, both to the growth of the customer base. As you can see on the right-hand side, we've had an increase of roughly 300,000 customers, especially in electricity, but also, in terms of the recovery of the shaping costs, which in 2022 had affected our results partially. And, therefore, we were able to recover those costs by renewing the contracts and transferring part of those costs to our customers. And then, of course, at the end of last year, especially, these costs were back to normal, which means that our margins were up, and we reduced costs. As we mentioned on previous occasions, this is an ongoing business, an ongoing activity that can give us a clear picture of the contribution stemming from it in 2023. Along with what Massimo showed us earlier, which was linked to the production of EUR 600 million to the CCN and the growth of these results brought the ROI in the energy sector back to 26%, 27%, which is in line with the normal, if not slightly better performances that this business used to have before the cash absorption that we had last year. Now, I'll give the floor to our CEO, Orazio Iacono, who will be illustrating the Waste and Networks businesses.

Thank you, Cristian, and good afternoon. Well, the waste business contribution to the Group's EBITDA is equal almost 25%. And we're quite pleased to mention this because the Waste business is strategic for the margin evolution, which is guaranteed to the Group. Thanks to the Group's leadership on the Italian waste market. As you can see in the graph on the left-hand side, the waste business has been experiencing a very positive market trend as you can see from the both track record. Even this year, we were able to use our leadership and our ability to use companies increasingly sustainable and circular solutions, which is something that we and a few others can offer. The waste EBITDA is now up to EUR 353 million. This also includes the collection business. In the collection business, we were able to almost bring back down to 0 the start-up costs of the new 15-year collection contracts with the same services and margins and the growth of treatment is intact. This is consistent with what we saw in the business plan and the waste sector is continuing to grow. In the middle graph, you'll see that if we sum up the delta perimeter with the organic growth, we come up with a EUR 30 million growth, which is entirely structural, which means that almost EUR 30 million, which have more than offset. The one-off fiscal benefits, which were the tax credits we have for energy consumption, which is worth EUR 30 million, which have benefited the 2022 results, which means that this is a positive overall results because it is net of the inflation impact on costs, which, as you can imagine, we had in 2023. Now, what are the factors which contributed to this growth? Earlier, I was mentioning the tangent perimeter, which takes into account the ACR Adjani Company, which became a part of our multi utility last year, which brought about a significant contribution since it allowed us to enter the Land Remediation Sector and in the Global Waste Management sector in a broader way, allowing us to further enhance our leadership. That was a beautiful transaction, which is performing very well and with a very long backlog in effect, which continues to become longer. The other theme I'd like to mention is our ability to develop waste volumes, also thanks to the development of the capacity of our asset base, which, as you remember, has some 100 different plants. In 2023, we launched the new line #2 in Trieste. And as we had mentioned in the business plan, we also added 8,000 hours to the Modena Waste Energy Plant. All of this allowed us to develop our presence even more in the special markets, the industrial markets. We're also increasing our activity as brokers even towards foreign countries, which is giving us some very good results. Over the years, we were able to achieve a very good level of skills, allowing us to reach out to territories which don't belong to our traditional area, which don't have the presence of plans. This has also allowed us to strengthen our leadership on the market with a 360-degree approach, which is the slogan we've given ourselves, as you can see from this slide. Let me move on to the slide on Networks. We are extremely pleased with the performances that we obtained in the Networks' business in 2023. As you know, 2022 and 2023 or years during which we were able to absorb the increase in costs by maintaining our results stable for the most part as you can see from the graph on the left-hand side of the presentation. And despite the regulatory news, on Networks set, we were able to do very well with an increase in investments. We had an increase in RAB, especially in the water cycle. The second point, which always has to be considered is our capacity to extract efficiencies as a way of offsetting the effects of inflation. And thirdly, the investments we made allowed us to increase the resilience of our Networks, which we're able to fully withstand the emergency we had in 2023 without ever interrupting our services and without any negative impacts on the results we posted. The same can be said for Waste because we made a huge effort to secure our communities. And now with 2024, the year of Networks has begun. We were on the defensive side of 2023. This year, we'll be able to capitalize on all of the efforts we've made so far. The increase of WACC has not been recognized. You may remember that we talked about this in January. With 110 basis points, and we also recognized inflation both on cost and on investments. So, I think it's safe to say that with these results, we are more than able to confirm the targets we had in mind with the business plan, and these are results that we're very pleased with. Over to Cristian.

Well, we have reached to the end of our presentation. Before opening the floor to your questions, let me just make a few concluding comments. But I'll start to give you a brief overview to leave some time for questions for the fact. In a nutshell, we reached year-end with the biggest growth ever, equal to EUR 200 million in terms of EBITDA. We're now up to almost EUR 1.5 million in overall EBITDA. As far as the net debt EBITDA, the ratio is concerned, and cash generation, we reduced the debt by EUR 400 million. The net debt-to-EBITDA ratio stands at 2.56x with a large level of financial flexibility, allowing us to grow further and to look at any possible interesting opportunities. We are at a 17% EPS growth. This, again, is one of the highest growth ever in our history. And, as we had mentioned, this growth allowed us to increase our proposed dividend. Today, the Board of Directors formalized this proposal for the shareholders meeting equal to EUR 0.14 per dividend with a plus 12% increase year-on-year and the year has only just begun. And as of July 1, we will also have to manage a major increase in our customer base given the end of the Maggior Tutela market that we will be starting to do. But as of July 1, we will begin with this new and major business opportunity that we built on in the past. So, this was a quick overview. And at this point, I'll open the floor for any questions to go into any details you'd like to cover.

Good afternoon, Mr. Fabbri. Our first question is from Javier Suarzen, Mediobanca.

I have a few questions for you. The first refers to the 2023 results. The general provisions level was higher than expected. Could you help us understand why you have these higher provisions in Q4 2023? What is the rationale behind that choice? And what should we expect for 2024 and onwards? That was my first question. Second question is on the company's cash flow generation of 2024. I'd like to understand what the evolution of the working capital absorption should be in 2024. Could you give us some visibility on that? That would be very much appreciated. And my third question is, I'd like to understand, and going back to the Chairman, the most recent comment. What are your recent views on the Group's extra profitability? This is a group of customers that were given to Hera with the end of the regulated electricity markets. What are the managerial levers you can implement beginning July 1 and which dynamics we should expect that would allow Hera to extract additional profitability from this new customer base?

Thank you, Javier. Thank you for your questions. Let me begin with the provisions for 2023. We reach year-end by concluding all of the Super Bonus Activities. And with a certain degree of cautiousness that made us increase our provisions with the end of the eco-bonus, which was concluded in a very intense way at the end of the year. And now, we'll be seeing over the next few months if we were too cautious or if we were consistent. For the time being, we're quite pleased with what we're seeing. We have also made some further provisions linked to the last resort markets, not so much because we're seeing a higher risk in 2023. But given the overall context for 2024, we chose to be conservative or cautious as we have a put in any possible surprise we may have were the situation to worse. Of course, these 2 items I mentioned won't be there in 2024. And we'll also be seeing significant benefits from the reduction in energy prices, and that effect will reduce our general depreciation. For the time being, we haven't seen any worsening in the unpaid ratio. As far as cash generation for 2024 is concerned before I give the floor to my colleagues, as far as the Maggior Tutela market is concerned, well, we'll be getting these new customers coming July 1. In those territories results are currently covered by us. You remember that 2/3 of these customers belong to territories, which the group already covers where we already have our structures. And that's where we're ready. We have already prepared an offer that we are advertising for those customers coming from the Maggior Tutela market. And the other parts of the country were already active at those structures needed to manage those customers. And what we'll be doing is that already on July 1, we will start offering further services to these customers and we'll be making fixed price offers to them, taking into account the major reduction in prices to guarantee these customers the protection that they thought they had with the Maggior Tutela market. So, again, we'll be making these fixed-price offers and other insurances linked to medical expenses or possible job loss. So, we're focusing on this customer target, which is very interested in being hedged for risks. So, these are the activities that we've begun working on. Some customers are already contacting us despite not even having the names of customers yet. We have set up a toll-free number to everybody starting with our commercial activities. So, this is what we have been preparing so far. Our target is to reach July 1 even mid-June, in fact, once we'll have the names of these customers so that by then, we're going to start all of these different activities besides welcoming these customers, of course, into their new supply company. Then maybe you want to answer the question on the treasury for cash flow, Massimo?

Now, as far as our projections for 2024 are concerned, well, we are certainly going through a fairly long period of normalization, as far as energy commodity prices are concerned. This, of course, has a positive impact as far as we're concerned on cash absorption. What we're seeing in the results of these first few months is certainly a positive effect. Now, the most important part of the absorption of cash or the release of cash when it comes to working capital are linked to prices. And, therefore, the normalization of prices with other conditions, which remain the same, we'll free up some cash. The storage without any huge hike in prices or different policies, although we don't expect any tensions on the 2024 storage season that will require further cash absorption. And the third component, which is important, which goes back to what the Chairman was saying, referring certain insurance provisions, refers to the management of fiscal credits linked to the super bonus, which was an opportunity for the Group, which implies that since we had had an absorption of working capital in 2023 linked to the credits that we had held on to which we then partly gave to banks, but which we are keeping for the most part, and we'll be starting to use those in 2024 to compensate our tax capacity. And given this same other conditions that will lead us to release the part of the cash flow, which is linked to managing the net working capital. Of course, we're only at the end of March, and we'll be continuing to manage the new conditions we'll be seeing in the upper months. 1.1 million new customers will have an impact on the working capital. But we feel that for the end of the year, everything should be manageable if the prices will continue to stay on this level. So, we have a positive outlook compared to the figures we showed you on Chart 5.

But just to be 100% sure that I understood what you said, compared to the general increase in provisions in Q4, is it safe to say that most of the general increase in provision is a non-cash item? Or is there a part or a significant part, which is cash related.

No, it's not a cash item. These are provisions for risks and earlier, I gave you a reasonable answer, I think. But if your question is what we expect for this total sum for 2024? Well, the things I mentioned earlier show that we expect a significant reduction in these items because some of the elements that we considered will no longer be there. Others will improve as if we were very conservative. We certainly hope that our caution will be a good thing as usual. Thank you.

Our next question is by Emanuele Oggioni.

Congratulations for the results. I also have a few questions. The first refers to 2023. There was a tax rate which was slightly below expectations. What is the guidance for 2024 linked to the tax side of things? Can you give us some further details on fiscal credits that Hera has held on to for the Super bonus which I'm sure is worth several hundred million euros and what use do you expect to make of those credits, to reduce the taxes or to use them in any other way maybe? That was my first question. Second question is on the electricity sector. What are the growth drivers for the business for 2024? We are aware of the fact that you were awarded some tenders, which give you benefits already in 2023, which will continue in the 2 lots in the Salvaguardia market. You continue to have positive effects for 2024 in the for the micro-enterprises, the benefits will continue all the way up to 2027. So, what is the year-on-year variation in the energy supply linked to electricity for 2024, if possible? And in your press release, similarly, you mentioned that when it comes to the water business, you had a price cap compared to the tariff increase which didn't allow you to fully cover costs which were driven up by inflation or the energy prices, but which beginning in 2024, as you mentioned in your press release, our cost that can partially be recovered. What do you expect in terms of tariff increase here? And what do you expect in terms of the growth in EBITDA? Will this be above what we saw in 2023 compared to 2022?

Let me begin with the first question. As far as the tax rate is concerned, obviously, the values of 2023 is also due to the optimization activities that we worked on as usual to maximize our potential to optimize the Group's overall tax rate. As far as the guidance for 2024 is concerned, currently, we have a slightly higher level because we work on optimizing things on a month-by-month basis whenever opportunity arise. For instance, we are studying the possibility of taking advantage of the Industry 5.0 initiatives, if applicable to our sectors. As far as the fiscal credits are concerned, let me just go back to the fiscal impact concept. We're talking about excises and fiscal credits. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, our strategy is to interact with the banking sector to give them a part of the credit, but to hold on to a significant part of those fiscal credits so that we can offset our outflows beginning in 2024 in a significant way, which means that we're looking at compensations that are well above EUR 200 million for the next 4 years. This won't have an impact on the tax rate, although it will have an impact on our financial management. It's an optimization because that extra 10% isn't something that we are passing on to the banking sector. We're holding on to it. So, basically, we transformed that change in the banking context that had slowed down in buying fiscal credits. Whatever it did, it did it at higher cost compared to the past. So, we've turned that into an opportunity to give value to the group's major tax capacity. So, this is the general picture when it comes to the fiscal credits linked to the 110% bonus.

Now, as far as your question on the water sector is concerned, well, the figures are fairly simple. You have an increase in FOI in OpEx from EUR 2.4 billion to EUR 2.8 billion. And the deflector as far as CapEx is concerned, from EUR 4.5 million to EUR 9.5 million. So, we have to consider the year 2023. As established by the authority, which means that, ultimately, we will stand at above EUR 45 million in terms of EBITDA. EUR 48 million to be more accurate, both for OpEx and CapEx for both of the years.

Thank you for your questions, Emanuele. And let me answer the question on electricity. You were asking about the beginning of this year. We had the contribution from the Salvaguardia market. We were awarded the tender for 2 years, 2023 and '24. The prices have been defined. And, therefore, it's just a matter of understanding what volumes there will be. But, again, the tender covers the year 2024 as well. So, that is a main element as far as the tenders are concerned. If we brought the scenario that go beyond electricity as you remember, at the end of 2023, we're also aware at the last resort market for gas. We have the last resort market and the gas default market. We cover the entire market for the latter and, therefore, for the time being, we are very much in line with our past performances for the last resort markets. And, as we were seeing in the business plan presentation, another significant element of 2024 will be our ability to continue growing from the development of the market. We're going to continue to improve our shipping costs because if this scenario will continue as they are currently performing, we don't have any cost. But we're also we're working on renewing contracts, and that would allow us to recover those shipping costs a little more than what we had in the past, typically with a contribution to the margins. But then we would also have this positive effect on growth that will be partly offset by the investment we made on the Maggior Tutela customers. Meaning that a part of that growth will be used to make that investment on the Maggior Tutela customers. So, this is a more detailed scenario. Hopefully, that answers your question. Otherwise, let us know.

The next question is by Roberto Letizia, Equita SIM.

I have some follow-up question regarding the 110% bonus of fiscal credits. Now, the compensation for use of credits or for other fiscal matters, as had already been done already for 2023, will they cover the remaining 3 years? Or did you use factoring in 2033? Or if you use factoring in this year and given the very good results, there may be a tool that absorbs financial burdens. And therefore, I'd like to understand if you won't have factoring in 2024 and if you will be using the physical credit, and if we'll be seeing benefits therefrom, would just the approach we use to manage 2023 and 2024? And can you give us the final value of the energy savings contribution that you mentioned in recent months? So, at the end of 2023, what was the overall contribution of this item, which you will then have to offset with the growth activities of this year?

I don't think I understood your last question, Roberto.

We want to know the overall purchase to energy savings. Can you give us an official figure for year-end?

Yes, we had some problems with your audio. So, I hadn't understood. I'll give Massimo the floor for the answer to your first question. Well, as far as managing the compensation, well, this would along with how the fiscal credits were actually built. Now, there was a very high impact in the second part of the year. And already in 2023, we made some compensations, although the size can be compared to what we have in mind beginning in 2024. As you know, there is a lead from whatever all of the documents are finalized and then sent to the Italian Revenue Service when they're made available to the fiscal records at that point, you can begin with your compensation activities. So, basically, in 2023, we started managing part of this fiscal file, we gave a part of that to the banks, and we compensated with our tax capacity for the other part that comes for 2024 onwards. As far as financing this type of investment is concerned, as we saw partly in the projection for the cash flow for 2023, we also started paying our suppliers so that we could feed the financing of these activities in the second part of the year. And in certain cases, we also seeded some factoring parts that we are currently reducing to the bare minimum because we want to absorb them almost entirely with our cash generation structure. So, even in this case, what we did was we progressively managed the growth in investments. Part of that was funded by freeing up the net working capital stemming from the reduction of storage and the reduction in prices. The prices are continuing to decrease. And that certainly helps us to manage this investment without having to use any other instruments. And as we compensate them, the overall size of the credit will be reduced. And therefore, in a couple of years' time, we should be down to reasonable figures. Regarding the impact of the Super eco-bonus. Well, all in all, in 2023, the contribution was equal to roughly EUR 80 million or EUR 90 million in terms of EBITDA. Obviously, it decreases by going down line to line. But as Massimo was saying, we had to sell certain credits, which increased our financial costs slightly. And, therefore, part of this super eco-bonus activity will be disappearing during 2024. I mentioned it's only going to be a part of it because many of the initiatives that we worked on continue to have some effects in terms of lower tax deductions for 2024, meaning that we will have a carryover for a part of those activities. So, it isn't an item which will disappear. It will continue to exist. It will give us a contribution to 2024. It isn't quite like the 1 in 2023, although we'll still be seeing the effects in our figures, and we'll be seeing an improvement regarding the side pertaining to financial burdens. We will no longer have the ability to see the fiscal credits. Although we did decide to hold on to some of those physical credits because they are very interesting, and this will give us a benefit even for financial burden. Of course, it's a complex topic. So, if I wasn't clear enough, please feel free to ask more questions.

Mr. Fabbri, there are no further questions at this point.

Very well then. If there are no further questions, I'd like to thank you for your time, for your attention. Of course, Jens and Luca Cimatti are available for any other questions or comments. Thank you very much. All the very best, and we'll see you in May for the Q1 results. But before we conclude, since many of the questions referred to 2024, in fact, most of your questions referred to 2023 to try to understand what's going to be happening in 2024. Well, what we can say and this is quite important. Well, we approved our business plan 2 months ago. 2024 began well. We don't have any criticalities. You may remember that in our business plan, we also gave you an idea of our profits. You saw that there was a progressive curve in the profits, which began in 2023, and we will continue constantly all the way out to 2024. So, that's what we had mentioned a couple of months ago. That is our industrial plan, and we will continue with that growth stream that we have included in our business plan that is our commitment to you 2 months ago when we presented the business plan. Very well then. Thank you very much. Goodbye and all the very best.