Himadri Speciality Chemical Limited (500184) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Himadri Speciality Chemical Limited Q1 FY '27 Conference Call hosted by MUFG. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Chirag Bhatia from MUFG. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Alicia. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call of Himadri Speciality Chemical Limited. Today on the call, we have with us Mr. Anurag Choudhary, CMD and CEO; Mr. Somesh Satnalika, EVP, Tire and Strategy; and Mr. Kamlesh Agarwal, CFO. Before we proceed with the call, I would like to give you a disclaimer that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations as of today. Actual results may differ materially. The statements are not the guarantee of the future performance and involve the risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. A detailed safe harbor statement is being given on Page 2 of the investor presentation of the company, which have been uploaded on stock exchange and on the company website. With this, I now hand over the call to Mr. Anurag Choudhary. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Chirag. Good evening, everyone, and a very warm welcome to the Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call of Himadri Speciality Chemicals Limited. Thank you for joining us today. We look forward to taking you through our performance for the quarter ended 30th June 2026, the progress across our strategic priorities and how we see the road ahead. Those who have followed our journey over the past few years will recognize that Himadri today has transformed into a different company from where it started. We began as a cool derivative company. And today, we operate as a global advanced materials and application-driven solution organization. We are positioned at the intersection of material science, energy transition and high-performance applications. At the core of this transformation lies a simple belief the companies that will lead the future are those that can continuously reload themselves, execute, reinvest, scale and repeat the cycle with discipline. This philosophy guides everything that we do. Over 3 decades, we have laid foundation. And today, we are building a future, placing core platform for the energy transition economy, focusing on capturing a global opportunity backed with innovation-led growth. Now let me briefly touch upon the financial picture for the quarter. On a consolidated basis, revenue stood at INR 1,432 crores. EBITDA was at INR 313 crores with a margin of 22% and profit after tax was INR 228 crores, reflecting a PAT margin of 16%. This performance reflects both strong operational discipline and the continued shift in our product mix towards higher value segments. Yesterday, we announced 2 important initiatives that further strengthen our innovation-led growth trajectory. First, we successfully developed indigenous carbon nanotube technology through our relentless in-house innovation and research and development, marking another milestone in our innovation journey. Backed by a planned CapEx of approximately INR 70 crores, our upcoming 200 metric ton per annum CNT manufacturing facility targeted for commissioning in Q4 FY '27 is expected to position Himadri among a select group of few global manufacturers serving this high-growth market. CNT is a next-generation material with application spanning across lithium-ion batteries, semiconductors, electronics, sensors, polymers, coatings, aerospace, et cetera. With demand accelerating across these industries, we believe CNT represents a significant long-term growth opportunity for the company. The second initiative is our entry into super speciality carbon black. This is a structurally different, high-purity segment designed for high performance in highly specialized markets like lithium-ion batteries, engineered plastics, fabrics, fibers, coating, conductive black and other niche applications, delivering premium realizations. We are converting 6,000 metric tons per annum of existing capacity with a CapEx of INR 170 crores. This is a classic example of our compounding philosophy, leveraging the same integrated feedstock base and new infrastructure to produce significantly high value-added products. This enhances margins, deepens application reach and strengthens our positioning in global speciality markets. Let me now turn to what will define the next phase of Himadri's journey, new energy materials. Global lithium-ion battery demand is projected to rise from around 1.6 terawatt hours in 2025 to nearly 6.8 terawatt hours by 2035. We are positioning ourselves for this opportunity with a fully integrated complex. On the anode side, we have commissioned our 200 metric ton per annum anode material facility at Mahistikry in April 2026. This capability is built entirely on overall decade of in-house research. The facility has been specifically designed with feedstock flexibility, enabling the use of in-house developed special engineered pitch. This backward integration gives us scalability, cost efficiency and resilience within a self-reliant value chain. On the cathode side, we are building capabilities in lithium ion phosphate, LFP cathode chemistry, which is fast emerging as the preferred solution for mass market EVs and energy storage. Our initial 2,000 metric ton per capacity is expected to be commissioned in Q3 FY '27, representing the first milestone under Phase 1 of 40,000 metric ton per annum expansion plan, which forms part of our broader long-term vision to scale capacity to 200 metric ton -- 200,000 metric tons per annum. What differentiates us is our integration from feedstock to materials. We are working towards building a scalable platform aligned with global demand and necessary priorities. [Technical Difficulty]

We are losing your audio. Can you please repeat? Sir, we are going to connect your line again.

Yes, very sorry, the line got disconnected. So coming back to our commentary on the cathode side, we are building capabilities in lithium-ion phosphate cathode chemistry, which is fast emerging as a preferred solution for mass market EVs and energy storage. Our initial 2,000 metric ton per annum capacity is expected to be commissioned in Q3 FY '27, representing the first milestone under Phase 1 of our 40,000 metric ton per annum expansion plan, which form part of our broader long-term vision to scale capacity to 200,000 metric ton per annum. What differentiates us is our integration from feedstock to materials. We are working towards building a self- scalable platform aligned with both global demand and national priorities. We continue to strengthen our strategic investments in battery material ecosystem. Sona in which Himadri is a strategic investor, secured AUD 45 million funding to accelerate its next-generation silicon carbon anode technology commercialization. Additionally, we have increased our stake in international battery company, reaffirming our confidence across battery value chain from materials to validation and deployment. Now coming to Birla Tyres. Birla Tyres turnaround continues to make steady progress. Since commencing commercial operation on 29th of May 2025, the focus has been on rebuilding the business on a strong operational and technological foundation. Alongside recommissioning the plant, significant efforts are underway to modernize manufacturing infrastructure, upgrade equipment and incorporate state-of-the-art automation across operations, thereby bringing the facility in line with contemporary industry standards and enhancing efficiency, consistency and product quality. In parallel, a strategic transformation of the manufacturing footprint is being undertaken by progressively converting the existing truck and bus bias tire capacity towards off-the-road tire production in a phased manner. That is in line with evolving market demand dynamics. This transition, along with modernization initiatives will be supported by additional capital expenditure and expected to be executed over the next 3 years, creating a stronger platform for long-term growth and profitability. As of today, the distribution network spans 49 distributors and over 1,000 dealers. Birla Tyres has been strengthening its portfolio across agriculture, mining and commercial segments with the launch of SKUs across 3 new agriculture products lines during the quarter, Agri, Agri Plus and AgriL40. This momentum is supported by a strong product development pipeline. With over 400 new SKUs under development across segments, Birla Tyres' next strategic milestone is the commissioning of passenger car radial facility by FY '28, paving the way for its planned entry into EV and SUV tire segments. In Speciality Carbon Black, we continue to build on our technology advantage with 250,000 metric ton capacity, including 130,000 tonnes of speciality carbon black capacity, we operate across a product portfolio of more than 70 speciality grades. Our integration from feedstock to final formulation gives us control over quality, cost and consistency. Our approach remains lab first plant later and shows that capacity expansion is always backed by validated applications. Our coal tap business continues to anchor the company. We operate the world's largest single location fully integrated carbon complex with 600,000 metric tons of coal tar distillation capacity. Our domestic market share continues to be over 65% and the commissioning of liquid Coal Tar Pitch terminal at Haldia and Bangalore has strengthened our ability to serve global markets. Our forward integration into Anthraquinone and Carbazole with a total capacity of 5,300 metric tons is progressing well with first commissioning targeted by FY '28. Initially phase capacity of 2,600 is set to commission in Q2 FY '27 and balance capacity of 2,700 metric tons is to be added in Q2 FY '28. This facility will be India's first commercial plant for its kind, reducing import dependence and unlocking the export-led growth, a right move towards Atmanirbhar Bharat. Let me now briefly explain how we are structuring our existing business. Our model has been 3 clear layers. At the core lines, our derivatives, carbon black, naphthalene, and oil of various grades, providing scale and feedstock security. Secondly, our speciality offering consists of products, speciality carbon black, super speciality carbon black, CNT, niche engineered grades of coal tar pitch, SNF & PCE, speciality chemicals such as N31 and Carbazole, which provide us customer stickiness and greater value realization. And the third is new energy materials, anode and electric cathode active material and silicon carbon technology, placing us at the very heart of global energy transition value chain. What this structure allows us is to grow on earnings faster than revenue as we focus on value-accretive businesses. Across all business initiatives, our capital allocation remains disciplined. The CapEx program is thoughtfully structured to balance scale with efficiency. It is entirely self-funded and deliberately calibrated between brownfield expansions, which enhance asset productivity and greenfield investments, where we are building new capabilities from the ground up. This approach allows us to pursue growth while maintaining balance sheet strength and capital discipline. Sustainability remains deeply embedded in our business model and operational philosophy. All our plants operate on a zero liquid discharge basis, reflecting our commitment to responsible manufacturing, resource efficiency and economical stewardship. These efforts continue to gain recognition. The reaffirmation of our EcoVadis Platinum rating continues to place Himadri among the top 1% of the companies globally assessed by EcoVadis. Increasingly, such credentials are not merely accolades, but important commercial prerequisites in global value chain. Our commitment to sustainable and responsible growth was further recognized during the quarter through several prestigious awards that belongs to entire Himadri family. Our approach is very clear. We are diversifying to build resilience. We are shifting our product portfolio mix to drive profitability, and we are executing things while maintaining balance sheet discipline. We are building a strong foundation that allows us to scale transformational growth while preserving financial discipline and transparency. I am confident that this combination of scale, integration, innovation, discipline will continue to deliver substantial value for all our stakeholders. With that, let me hand over to our Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Kamlesh Agarwal, who will now take you through the financial performance for the quarter in greater detail. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Anurag. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I trust that everyone has had a chance to review our financial results and the latest investor presentation, which have been made available on both the stock exchanges and our company's website. Let me begin with the key financial highlights of the quarter. Our consolidated revenue for the quarter stood at INR 1,432 crores as compared to INR 1,118 crores a year ago, an increase of 28%. Our EBITDA stood at INR 313 crores as compared to INR 235 crores a year ago with an increase of 33% and a margin of 22%. Our profit after tax has significantly increased to INR 228 crores from INR 179 crores a year ago, a jump of 27% with a margin of 16%. Our stand-alone revenue for the quarter stood at INR 1,274 crores as compared to INR 1,100 crores a year ago, an increase of 16%. Our EBITDA stood at INR 301 crores as compared to INR 234 crores a year ago with a growth rate of 29% and margin of 24%. Profit after tax has significantly increased to INR 223 crores from INR 183 crores a year ago, a jump of 22% with margin of 18%. We remain committed to delivering strong value through our strategic priorities and operational rigor. Thank you once again for your continued support and engagement. Thank you.

Now you can open the floor for the question-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities.

I got a couple of questions. First, a numerical question, let me finish that. On the other segment, the EBIT has fallen from INR 25 crores last quarter to around INR 1 crore this quarter. What has changed? Because revenue number hasn't changed much. Why there is such a sharp swing in the EBIT margin for the other segment?

So other segment last time consists of mining profit, which this quarter didn't took place. That was the reason of fall.

So what explains less change in revenue in that? So what is compensated.

So this quarter, we did not operate the mines. We're waiting for some licensing to happen. Post that, the mining operation will start. That was the...

Okay. But it is not showing up in revenue. That means something else has picked up very short.

Revenue because the Birla Tyres revenue has gone up. Last quarter, if you see the Birla quarter revenue was significantly low. And with the ramping up of capacity in Birla Tyres, the revenue is going up. So that's the reason you don't find change in revenue, but you find change in the profitability.

Clear, clear. Now coming to the new CapEx that we have announced, which is the Carbon Nano Tube and the Super-speciality Carbon Black. In Nano Tube, what is an approach? This will address India market, global market? What is the key application you did said energy and semiconductor -- but whom are we competing here? And how have we benchmarked the product now that we are commercializing it, we would have done all that, right? So how should we see this segment? And what is the differential in the realization versus a speciality carbon black and the Carbon Nano Tube? That's one. Number two, we got the super speciality carbon black. What really is this because Carbon Nano Tube, I can still understand. But when we say super speciality carbon black, what really are we trying to do here? So these are the 2 on this question.

Yes. Thank you, Sanjesh. So first of all, coming to carbon nano tube. Carbon nano tube is a unique product where graphene is rolled into seamless cylinder that forms carbon nanotube. So it's nothing but graphene, which we have developed through relentless R&D efforts of many, many years. If you look at the entire value chain -- entire supply chain platform globally, there are only a few companies in the world who are doing this. And we are the first in India. And if you look at the product, to make it very simple, it is 100x the st copper. That's the game changer. strength of steel and conductivity of copper and very light material. So this opens the entire huge arena of applications. right, from lithium-ion batteries to semiconductors to conductive film sensors to industrial coatings to lightweight high-strength material for aerospace and automotive means every day, the usage is improving and increasing. So that places Himadri in a unique position because the in-house technology we have developed and now we are putting it into scale. So this is the first step with 200 metric tons. We'll stabilize the product, set up the facility, get customers in place globally. So today, the market is very less in India. It's a global play. So we'll be supplying to the global players. And this is a very high value-added product and with significant value over the existing products. Now coming to super speciality carbon black. So I have been talking about value-added products, the journey, and it's a journey. It's -- every time you keep on working on it, you keep on developing and you go one step up the ladder. So we started with very low end of speciality carbon black, just marginal in terms of speciality carbon black. Then we are moving ahead. We are going up the ladder with the new speciality carbon black line coming up, we have moved up the ladder. Now the aspiration -- so I've been always talking about high-value niche market for speciality carbon black, which is a very -- not a very, very huge market, but it's a very, very prime and tailor-made super speciality market, where the value addition is multifold of the existing speciality. So in terms of value addition, you cannot compare the 2 products. That's why you are seeing at only 6,000 metric tons, but the value addition will be very, very high. So this is the product we are targeting now. And we have given FY '28 as when we start the capacity. And this will be a very big game changer for the company going into a very, very niche market, high value-add market with a very strong ROCE.

No, my question is that we just started a speciality plant. Why did we do that? We would have straight went into manufacturing the same, which is we are converting the old plant, right?

No, no, we are not converting the speciality plant. We are converting the...

The rubber side of the...

And speciality why we went -- see, you cannot leave one market and focus on one market. See, these players buy speciality, they buy super speciality. So you have to have the entire portfolio in your basket. It's not that I'll sell you only the best product, high-margin product, others you buy from others. That never works. So for that, you have to have the entire portfolio with the Speciality is the stepping stone to go towards super speciality. That's why we have to strengthen our position, make us very strong in speciality, that gives the confidence to the customers that they have the ability. So if you're not doing a speciality, tell super speciality, first question will first to do speciality, then we talk about super speciality. That's it.

No, no. But I just want to understand like conductive grade, it helps in improving the conductivity in the material. what property does this super speciality adding in, say, engineering plastic and EV, what really characteristic is this adding there?

See, because of competitive nature, I don't want to disclose all these technical details on a con call. So we have clearly articulated which is application is this, and I don't want to go into technical details of the subject.

Got it. No, no, no, that's fair. That's fair enough. Second, what is the market size of, say, carbon nanotube globally and the super speciality?

So if you look at the carbon nanotube, it's evolving market. Today, it is around 30,000 metric tons, which is growing every year. And a lot of -- what is happening, this product is getting more and more applications and user industry. So it's a new product, new technology, which is working now. And over the years, you will find the uses multiplying. The growth will be phenomenal. So this is a growing industry, new age industry, advanced material industry. Coming to super speciality, the market is around 300,000 metric tons.

Okay. No, no, no. Super speciality is 300,000? I thought speciality is even...

Speciality is very high. Speciality runs into million, so more than 1 million. That's our normal market.

Got it. Got it. Now coming to battery materials. So we are getting into anode LFP right now and then silicon probably soon. Now I want to understand LFP market, what is the size of the market today in China? How many players are there in this segment? And how are we approaching this segment?

So if you look at the LFP market, today, 100% global capacity of LFP is in China and is mainly dominated by top 5 to 6 players in China. They are the leaders with 75% to 80% of the capacity. Globally, there is no other company manufacturing LFP as of now on a commercial basis. So entire capacity rest with China. And market, if you look at today, we are at 1.5, 1.6 TWH. And in that, you can say probably 50% is LFP. And if you look at 50% LFP, that brings you to 800 gigawatt hour. 800 gigawatt hour that will consume around 1.6 million tonnes of LFP. And as of now, it's a growing market, it is supposed to grow to 6-plus terawatt hour by 2035 and majority, 70% of the growth is coming in LFP. So looking forward, the demand for this product is going to be big.

Got it. Got it. And what we are adding or aspiring to add 200,000, that's like we are talking of having a 10% market share of today's market, correct? That's how we are approaching it?

That's the right way of looking at it because 200,000, we are projecting in next 5 to 6 years. So by that time, the market will definitely change from what it is today. So actually, we are targeting at 2% to 3%, which is hardly anything.

Got it. Got it. Now if I want to look at the same economics in anode because I think there are some other players in India also who have announced anode capacity. How are we different? Again, what is the demand in the world? What is the contribution of China?

So if you look at the anode chemistry, so unlike LFP, every lithium ion cell needs anode. In cathode material, there are different chemistries. There is NMC, CLO, LFP, various chemistries. But for anode, everyone needs anode. So on a macro basis, 1,600 gigawatts need 1.6 million tonne of anode. So anodes are different types, synthetic anode and natural graphite anode. So if you look at 70% of the market is synthetic because of high capacity, stability, quality, sustainability, this product is there. What makes Himadri unique is that, see, it's not that everyone is talking about lithium ion. So Himadri has also started talking about lithium ion. This has been our vision since last more than 10, 12 years. We have worked very hard on this to make it happen. Extensive amount has been invested in terms of research and development capabilities and innovation. We have spent -- if you look at the last year's balance sheet only INR 125-plus crores, we have spent 2.6% of our top line. Current year also, we are spending in the same fashion. Over the years, we have spent this money on R&D in different products. And we know the chemistry in and out. We have worked with it for years. We were the first company in the world to supply the precursor from pitch to the Hsu of anode in China, like I don't want to do any top 5 players in China before China could make coal tar based precursors. We made it and we supply to them. So we are very seasoned in this industry and strongly positioned and only company who is talking of anode metal backward integrated. So we have our own raw material. In addition to that, we have flexibility of using other raw materials. So this brings Himadri in a unique platform. Other than that, we are working on natural graphite -- we will also set up capacity for that. We will set up capacity of silicon carbon. This again brings Himadri into a unique position where we will meet the aspiring and need of our customers, not only through synthetic, but through natural silicon carbon, hybrid... [Technical Difficulty]

Sorry to interrupt you, sir. Your voice is breaking. Can you please repeat your last statement?

[indiscernible].

Sorry to interrupt you sir. Management line, let me reconnect you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience, we have management line connected.

Sorry for the disturbance. I don't know how the land line is getting disturbed. But anyway, am I audible now? So one needs to confirm, then I can start.

Yes, sir. We are able to hear you.

So I was talking about the strength and USP of Himadri. We are going to set up a plant for synthetic natural and silicon carbon. That puts Himadri into a unique positioning where we can supply hybrid material to our customers depending on their requirement. Sanjesh, I hope this answers your question.

Hello?

Yes, Sanjesh.

Yes, sir. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you, please.

No, I think they mute me because they were trying to connect you. But now you can hear me. Thank you. That's perfectly clear. So now we have started 200 metric ton of pilot plant in last 1 quarter, what has been the response? How many samples we have? And what is the discussion with the client we are having? If you can give us some color, that will be really helpful.

Definitely. So what happens from the pilot plant, we were allowed to give sample A. There are 4 stages, sample A, B, C. So now we have supplied sample B to many customers globally and in India to all the customers in India and many customers, OEMs and manufacturers globally. So once we have the response for sample B, then we go for sample C. Hello?

Yes, sir, we can hear you, sir.

Yes, yes. Yes, Sanjesh, tell me.

I'm trying to understand how long this approval process goes?

This process takes 1.5 years to 2 years.

So this entire process for us will take almost 1.5 to 2 years. So for us to get into?

We have already advanced the process. So for us, it will take competitive -- by the time we have our plant in operation, we'll have the approvals in place.

So when are we looking that what would be the potential time line? I know you haven't disclosed that, but...

Yes, that's the reason I cannot disclose.

No, that's fine. We will wait for it. But you're telling generally, it's a very long drawn process in terms of taking approval, correct?

That's the reason we have started sampling from our commercial gate to 100 metric ton plant. So that brings us in the front foot for getting approvals.

Sorry to interrupt you, sir. You may rejoin the queue for follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital.

Yes. I just wanted to understand on the anode side, what's the CapEx amount?

So we have already spent INR 120 crores.

And how much more to spend here?

How much...

I mean how much more? I mean, this INR 120 crores is the total amount for this...

There's no more CapEx we have announced now. Once we formulate our plan for a bigger capacity, we'll come up with public disclosure for the investment.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And LFP Phase 1, what's the time line for commissioning?

Q3 FY '27.

So that's only 2,000 metric tons, right? So I was talking about Phase 1, 40,000, yes.

That will be operational FY '28.

So that will come in FY '28?

Right, right, right.

And for this INR 40,000, we are spending around INR 1,125 crores, right?

Right, right, right.

Okay. And on this 5 CapEx that we have -- we are doing in CNT, SSCB anode, LFP cathode and Anthraquinone and carbazole. So do we have any kind of understanding? So what can be the revenue potential from each of this segment at optimum utilization? So that gives us some picture, I mean, in terms of the overall revenue potential of your new age CapEx that we are doing, yes?

40,000 tonnes as per today's value will give you -- LFP will give you a INR 3,000 crore top line. For anthraquinone carbazole, depending on the value, it can give you anything between INR 250 crores to INR 300 crores of top line. The super speciality carbon black depending on, again, which segment we are targeting, this will be also 3x of our investment, capital investment, 3x asset ratio.

3x asset ratio, that effectively means around INR 500 crores, right? I mean...

INR 500 crores, right.

Okay. And what about CNT?

CNT is just a small capacity, 200 metric tons. So it will not be substantial. So in the next phase, when we scale up, then the real revenue will come.

Small in the sense, what I mean, INR 1,500 crores?

Yes, in that kind of, not INR 100 crores, less than INR 100 crores.

Okay. INR 50 crores to INR 70 crores and about -- and the last thing is anode, yes.

So anode, we have not announced any capital investment in terms of bigger capacity. So this is a planned for approvals.

Okay. But this 200 metric tons, so what is the revenue potential of this 200 metric tons? So this gives us some understanding, I mean, yes.

So revenue potential for 200 metric tons maybe INR 120 crores, INR 30 crores.

INR 120 crores, INR 3 crores -- okay. I got it. I got it. And in terms of -- are we also in future, have any strategy or planning towards going towards the cell manufacturing or something on those lines, the battery cell manufacturing? So do we have that plan as well or anything on both?

Not at all. We have. We are a raw material component company, focused on this for the last many, many years. We want to continue in this direction. For cell manufacturing, we have invested in IBC. Idea is not to go for cell manufacturing. idea is to have a commercial play in terms of our product being displayed commercially by using by the cell manufacturing company, IBC. So today, Himadri product is no longer a laboratory product. It's a product which is commercially used in cells manufactured by IBC.

Understood. And this INR 1,100 crores bottom line by FY '28 remains intact that I think we have earlier mentioned, right?

Definitely.

And anything on FY '27, I mean, any outlook? I think you have not shared...

We don't give quarter and year guidelines, never.

The next question is from the line of Ranvir Singh from Nuvama Wealth.

I think 2 of my questions have already been answered. Just to elaborate a little bit on cathode material plan. So 40,000 metric tons by FY '28 and 2 lakh metric ton is our ultimate target in the next 5 years. So I think by FY '30, '31, we are planning this 2 lakh metric ton would be rolled out?

Right, right. In 5 years from now, right.

And normally, what kind of CapEx is required to this kind of capacity?

So we have already announced INR 200,000, INR 4,800 crores of CapEx.

Okay. And when we talk 2 lakh metric ton, what would be the market share at that time, if you have any kind of analysis would be helpful in terms of...

Total market share of LFP...

Sorry?

2% to 3% of the global LFP market.

2% to 3%. Okay. Okay. Fine. And here in the base business in coal power business, what is the capacity utilization of the existing capacity and plus what we have expanded 70,000 metric tons. So what will be the capacity utilization currently in those segments?

80% capacity utilization. Looking forward during the year, we will be at 90% plus.